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Failed hard disc

The main hard disc in my RiscPC seems to have given up.  It threw up a
disc error (which may have been 5, sadly I didn't write it down) and now
all I'm getting is "Disc not found...".  Attempts to access it just result
in the machine freezing for long periods of time and it makes the
occasional unhappy crunching noise when powered up.

I'm assuming it's dead, though if anyone has any suggestions as to
troubleshooting methods I'd be interested...  The main question is: as
it's still on the motherboard IDE interface, are there any compatibility
issues that I need to be aware of when buying a replacement?  The machine
runs 4.02 or Select 3, so the LFAU problem isn't an issue, but will any
modern disc "just work"?  The FAQ seems a bit out of date in this respect.

-- 
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

0
news1571 (3486)
7/25/2004 8:39:33 PM
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In message <2ac633d44c.steve@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>
          Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> The main question is: as it's still on the motherboard IDE interface, are
> there any compatibility issues that I need to be aware of when buying a
> replacement?  The machine runs 4.02 or Select 3, so the LFAU problem
> isn't an issue, but will any modern disc "just work"?  The FAQ seems a
> bit out of date in this respect.

I am running a Maxtor Diamond +9 (Calypso) for over 15 month now without
any trouble. It is connected to the internal IDE interface of my RPC
fitted with RO from 4.02 up to 4.37. The last 7 month the drive is
running 24/7 (except some reboots, but the system has always been
powered). 
From this experiences i would say this drive RO 4.x and RPC compatible.

Hope that helps.


Sincerely Hauke
-- 
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      Key fingerprint = B674 E173 327A E4DA CAD0  E360 1C36 367E 84F8 9BA5 
  http://www.2a1p.de <-  RISC OS | Manga & Anime -> http://www.mang-a-nime.de
0
Hauke
7/25/2004 9:48:28 PM
On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:39:33 +0100, Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk>  
wrote:

> The main hard disc in my RiscPC seems to have given up.  It threw up a
> disc error (which may have been 5, sadly I didn't write it down) and now
> all I'm getting is "Disc not found...".  Attempts to access it just  
> result
> in the machine freezing for long periods of time and it makes the
> occasional unhappy crunching noise when powered up.
>
> I'm assuming it's dead, though if anyone has any suggestions as to
> troubleshooting methods I'd be interested...  The main question is: as
> it's still on the motherboard IDE interface, are there any compatibility
> issues that I need to be aware of when buying a replacement?  The machine
> runs 4.02 or Select 3, so the LFAU problem isn't an issue, but will any
> modern disc "just work"?  The FAQ seems a bit out of date in this  
> respect.
>

What type is it? Manuf / size / capacity would be helpful.

YES, there do appear to be compatibility issues. I can't really be too  
specific without spreading FUD at this stage. Some may be addressable with  
software changes to ADFS, but it's likely that it may be a controller chip  
interface.

The long and short of it is that manufacturers are pulling out legacy  
features from pre ATA-4. to make way for ATA-8. ADFS pre-dates the ATA  
specification in its entirity (!) so expect fireworks.


Be wary of newer drives (40Gb or later). This isn't a space issue, it's  
manufacturer specific. Hitachi in particular have removed some legacy  
features which WILL cause issues between newer drives and Risc PCs. I've  
confirmed this one with the drive firmware engineers personally (and one  
concerned even KNEW of RISC OS <shock>).

Do NOT expect that to be permanent information or advice though, as if  
this can be fixed in ADFS it could well be resolved for Select 4.


Using a 3rd party interface such as Stuart's Unipod is a safer bet too, as  
the controller chip will be newer. My tests on Drobe with Chris (shameless  
plug: http://www.drobe.co.uk/features/artifact1076.html) show that its a  
good investment for getting more oomph out of your drives too. NB that the  
drive used in that test showed the compatiblity issue I'm talking about,  
which is why newer tests haven't been forthcoming :o(.


I've got a 20Gb Maxtor Fireball 3 on the internal interface running for a  
long time with no problems. At the time it was at the lower end of their  
market, so expect newer Fireballs to work too.


Best wishes,

Drew
-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
0
drew.hill (20)
7/25/2004 10:18:07 PM
In message <2ac633d44c.steve@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>
          Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> The main hard disc in my RiscPC seems to have given up.  It threw up a
> disc error (which may have been 5, sadly I didn't write it down) and now
> all I'm getting is "Disc not found...".  Attempts to access it just result
> in the machine freezing for long periods of time and it makes the
> occasional unhappy crunching noise when powered up.
> 
> I'm assuming it's dead, though if anyone has any suggestions as to
> troubleshooting methods I'd be interested...  The main question is: as
> it's still on the motherboard IDE interface, are there any compatibility
> issues that I need to be aware of when buying a replacement?  The machine
> runs 4.02 or Select 3, so the LFAU problem isn't an issue, but will any
> modern disc "just work"?  The FAQ seems a bit out of date in this respect.
> 
Seagate drives seem to be ok at the moment.
There just so happens to be a 40GB Seagate drive for sale on ebay at
the moment :-)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8119694429&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Cheers!
-- 
Graham
The Main Control Room - www.thedeathzone.free-online.co.uk
Deathzone Emulation - www.thedeathzone.free-online.co.uk/emulation
0
thedoctor3 (634)
7/26/2004 11:22:37 AM
On 25 Jul, Andrew Hill wrote in message
  <opsbppgrpwraetr2@winxppc>:

[RiscPC hard discs]

Thanks for the various suggestions that people have made...

> What type is it? Manuf / size / capacity would be helpful.

Quantum Fireball, 10Gb.  Bought late 2000.

> YES, there do appear to be compatibility issues. I can't really be too  
> specific without spreading FUD at this stage. Some may be addressable
> with   software changes to ADFS, but it's likely that it may be a
> controller chip   interface.
> 
> The long and short of it is that manufacturers are pulling out legacy  
> features from pre ATA-4. to make way for ATA-8. ADFS pre-dates the ATA  
> specification in its entirity (!) so expect fireworks.
> 
> Be wary of newer drives (40Gb or later). This isn't a space issue, it's  
> manufacturer specific. Hitachi in particular have removed some legacy  
> features which WILL cause issues between newer drives and Risc PCs. I've  
> confirmed this one with the drive firmware engineers personally (and one  
> concerned even KNEW of RISC OS <shock>).

This was what I was wondering about...

I've now had three different recommendations, so I may just go and speak
to my local PC dealer and see what they stock in the way of hard discs.  I
need a new disc for the PC as well, so the first disc won't be wasted if
the RiscPC decides not to talk to it.

> Do NOT expect that to be permanent information or advice though, as if  
> this can be fixed in ADFS it could well be resolved for Select 4.

I don't really see me getting Select 4, given recent events, unless ROL
decide to make it available to 32-bit users as well.  The pigs are
standing at the end of the runway as we speak...
 
> Using a 3rd party interface such as Stuart's Unipod is a safer bet too,
> as   the controller chip will be newer. My tests on Drobe with Chris
> (shameless   plug: http://www.drobe.co.uk/features/artifact1076.html)
> show that its a   good investment for getting more oomph out of your
> drives too.

I should probably mention that, unless I buy a second slice, I don't have
any spare podule slots (SCSI 2 and Viewfinder).  I also don't really want
to spend lots of money on an obsolete machine, given that my main RISC OS
box has been an Iyonix for the past year or so.  Having the RiscPC working
again would be nice, but probably not worth the cost of a disc interface
*and* new disc...

> I've got a 20Gb Maxtor Fireball 3 on the internal interface running for
> a   long time with no problems. At the time it was at the lower end of
> their   market, so expect newer Fireballs to work too.

Hopefully it would last longer than the example currently in my machine...
 
Ironically, the RiscPC is still booting OK off the 1994 vintage 406Mb disc
that it came with -- I've been expecting that to fail since before I
bought the 10Gb disc.  They don't make then like they used to... :-)

-- 
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

0
news1571 (3486)
7/28/2004 9:26:51 PM
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I had a somewhat strange experience today with a hard drive. Some months ago I decided to upgrade the hard drive on my PC from 100GB to 160GB. The drives were formatted to NTFS. I used the now spare 100GB drive in my Risc PC, initialising it with my Unipod, where it has been used since February this year. As the 100GB was a bit over the top and the PC again needed more space, I reverted the Risc PC to its original 10GB drive and put the 100GB drive - still with all the Risc PC stuff on it - back into the PC, as a slave to the other drive. When I turned the PC on, it went into a half hour ...

Hard disc dying?
Today the hard disc on the A5000 at the Wandle Industrial Museum (which is, not, I may add, an exhibit!) displayed worrying behaviour, spontaneously spinning down in the middle of print spooling and then failing to spin up at all when the computer was re-started, causing it to hang for a long time mid-boot and when the hard disc icon was clicked upon. I took the top off the machine and tried unplugging and reseating the power supply lead to the hard disc, which was all I could think of, and the machine did then start up properly the next time I tried it, but I don't know if this was a coincidence or not. The computer is due to be 'upgraded' to a Windows machine in the next few months and I was relying on being able to process the data into a lowest-common-denominator form for transfer, e.g. CSV, HTML, plain text etc. I have a spare hard disc of suitable size (albeit of similar age to the original). Is the defect likely to be in the power supply from the motherboard or in the disc mechanism? i.e. will replacing the hard disc improve reliability or not? There is only 58Mb used space on the disc at present, some of which is unnecessary software -- for example, DigitalCD on a machine where the sound doesn't work -- and I am hoping that I can probably keep the old hard disc running for long enough to copy the data across if required. -- Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie == We prefer to speak evil of ourselves than not speak of oursel...

Hard disc scratch
My teenage son has a habit of restarting his laptop when the system (frequently) hangs by removing the battery. Now there appears to be a problem on the hard disc. Durning the execution of Scandisk, the scan reaches around 86% and then stops. It just stays there until the system is rebooted. We can get the machine to operate by rebooting and bypassing scandisk. But certain operations, e.g. trying to delete a particular file, cause the system to hang. I guess the cause is that there is some kind of scratch on the disc when he removed the battery once too often. But I am surprised that Scandisk can't overcome this. Anyone know of any utility that can perhaps put the bad sectors into an "envelope" so that they are simply ignored by the system ? Salvador Freemanson wrote: > My teenage son has a habit of restarting his laptop when the system > (frequently) hangs by removing the battery. > > Now there appears to be a problem on the hard disc. > Durning the execution of Scandisk, the scan reaches around 86% and > then stops. It just stays there until the system is rebooted. > > We can get the machine to operate by rebooting and bypassing scandisk. > But certain operations, e.g. trying to delete a particular file, cause > the system to hang. > > I guess the cause is that there is some kind of scratch on the disc > when he removed the battery once too often. But I am surprised that > Scandisk can't overcome this. ...

Hard disc recovery
I have a SCSI 120Gb hard disk that was accidently re-partitioned can anyone recommend a suitable tool to un partition the drive so I can recover the files on it ? Thanks On 3 Apr, 22:45, "freddy" <dsd....@hehg.com> wrote: > I have a SCSI 120Gb hard disk that was accidently re-partitioned can anyone > recommend a suitable tool to un partition the drive so I can recover the > files on it ? > > Thanks Hi freddy, Ouch! Bad luck. Thoughts that spring to mind are: -Dump an image of the drive 'as is' before you do anything else... ....mind you 120gb is going to need some room. Do you have a (um) PC/ Mac with scsi you could use to make the dump if space is tight on your Acorn..? -Something like DiscKnight may help - really an IDE recovery tool but you never know... -Having backed-up the drive first, repartitioning with the original map *may* get you a fair bit of your data back. -Thanks for the contributions :-)- Regards, Charles. Charlie wrote: > On 3 Apr, 22:45, "freddy" <dsd....@hehg.com> wrote: >> I have a SCSI 120Gb hard disk that was accidently re-partitioned can anyone >> recommend a suitable tool to un partition the drive so I can recover the >> files on it ? > -Something like DiscKnight may help - really an IDE recovery tool but > you never know... As long as the disc hasn't been repartitioned and reinitialised with the same sizes as originally (which will overwrite the disc ma...

A3010 Hard disc
Hi. Know this is a tall order but does anyone have an IDE interface for the A3010 which I could use to connect a hard disc to the machine? Also, I need a user port on the expansion card. I dont need a hard disc, I have two in an A7000 and I could take one for this. Know it wont fit, but neatness doesnt really matter. I just need the inteface. Alternatively does anyone have an expansion card of any sort whatsoever for an A7000 with a user port on it? I really dont care what it is so long as theres a user port (for an external control box I want to get working for a model railway). If anyone has one they dont want could they email me? Dallimoj@coventry.ac.uk Would prefer an email as I wont have a chance to check the group for a while. A freebie would be great (I would pay postage etc) but otherwise email me with a price and I'll consider it. Cant pay too much tho Im a poor skivvy student!! :-) Many thanks in advance Jon Dallimore On 22-Jun-2005, "Jon Dallimore" <dallimoj@coventry.ac.uk> wrote: > Know this is a tall order but does anyone have an IDE interface for > the A3010 which I could use to connect a hard disc to the machine? > Also, I need a user port on the expansion card. I dont need a hard > disc, I have two in an A7000 and I could take one for this. Know it > wont fit, but neatness doesnt really matter. I just need the > inteface. > > Alternatively does anyone have an expansion card of any sort > whatsoever for an...

Replacement Hard Disc
I have a RISC PC 600 with RISC OS 3.6. The current hard disc appears to have failed with hard errors. I have been unable to find out what the maximum hard disc size that I can fit is - I've been unable to run HForm (I've tried several versions) with a 40Gb HD. So, some questions: What is the maximum size HD that I can add with the current OS and what version of HForm would I use? Can I just add some spare 3.7 ROMs I have and would it make any difference? Where can I get a very small HD if the answer to the above is less than about 18Gb (the smallest I can make available)? What upgrades would make sense in this situation? Thanking you in advance. John Haines In article <4cc4b35ec8jhaines@argonet.co.uk>, John Haines <jhaines@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > Where can I get a very small HD if the answer to the above is less than > about 18Gb (the smallest I can make available)? > What upgrades would make sense in this situation? One answer might be an IDE card. Those can allow you to partition a larger disc so you have several all within the 3.6 maximum. IIRC. -- *I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. On 25 Jun 2004 John Haines <jhaines@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > I have a RISC PC 600 with RISC OS 3.6. The current hard disc appears to > have failed with hard errors. I have been unable to find out what the &...

Hard Disc linking
Hi, I have just installed a second hard disc (with no links, = slave) and all works perfectly. I had to work out whether the boot disc was configured as a Master or as Drive select so I checked the documentation that came with the disc many years ago. I was surprised as to how the boot disc is configured. All works well was I didn't alter anything but I am left curious. The boot disc is a Maxtor 5T030H3 and is linked as follows; Link between Pins 1 and 6 Link between Pins 2 and 3 X = Pin O = No Pin 1 2 3 4 5 X X X O X X X X X X 6 7 ...

iPad hardware fails ...
It looks like my early model iPad has expired. I bought it on 19 October 2010, it was delivered about a week later, and it started exhibiting problems about 5 days ago. Initially assuming it was a software problem, I've been trying to fix it by doing Restore's (each of which has taken about 7 hours to complete) and complete Re-synchs but nothing seems to resolve the problem. Originally I'd put the problem down to iTunes 10.5 and IOS 5 .... because the problems surfaced after those updates, but now I am forced to conclude that it is something more fundamental that is happenin...

Hardware hard in Linux?
OK, here's the scenario. Dual boot box consisting of a P4P-800-E DLX, Nvidia video card, printer, scanner, bells, whistles, and it's something I'm proud of. The Linux side is running Slack 10.2 with a custom 2.6.16 kernel and gware Gnome for the desktop. Mrs. Phist decided to buy me a wireless keyboard and mouse since my old ones are almost five years old and I've beaten them all to hell. She's not the most tech savvy person in the world and just went to Best Buy and got a Microsoft keyboard/mouse combo for about $40 CAN. Not a bad deal, but I'm going from PS2 wired k...

FS: Hard discs
If anyone is interested, I've got hold of a bunch of hard discs. They're Fujitsu units, MPD3043AT, 4.3GB capacity. Ideal to give yourself a bit more space. Offers to the return address on here. Note that my mailbox is filtering quite hard at the moment, so mails headed Technical anything, among a lot of other words, will get binned. I've got pukka boxes too, so mailing is no problem. Cheers Mike -- Michael Gilbert: in his own write OK, so there's the Trident in Bangor In article <ant2019271cb9GWx@riscpc.local>, Michael Gilbert <URL:mailto:mgilbert@eclipse.co.uk> wrote: > .... Note > that my mailbox is filtering quite hard at the moment, so mails > headed Technical anything, among a lot of other words, will get binned. I quite understand, but I did smile, I thought you worked in Technical support:-) That would be one of reducing your workload;-) Chris Evans -- CJE Micro's / NCS / Fourth Dimension 'RISC OS Specialists' Telephone: (01903) 523222 Fax: (01903) 523679 chris@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/ 78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN, UK. In article <ant221229b49pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>, Chris Evans <URL:mailto:chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote: > In article <ant2019271cb9GWx@riscpc.local>, Michael Gilbert > <URL:mailto:mgilbert@eclipse.co.uk> wrote: > > > .... Note > > that my mailbox is filtering quite hard...

More hard disc woes
After all the difficulties I recently had -- but never solved -- getting a 120 GB disc recognised on a RISC OS 4 RiscPC, I've now tried another brand-new disc. This one is 80 GB (a size that is known to be usable on RO 4), and I haven't run HForm or similar tools on it as it came "ready to use" and I don't want to risk rendering it completely unusable. Once again it is not recognised, suggesting that there is something fundamentally wrong here. The 40 GB it replaced worked fine as slave to the 16 GB, the 40 GB is now the master and the 80 is jumpered as slave, so it's really rather puzzling! When I had the same problem with the 120 GB I also tried having it as the master with no slave and that made no difference, so I haven't tried that this time (I really don't fancy stripping down to the motherboard level again!) and strongly feel that it would change nothing. I ran DiscKnight to get some basic info, and the results (below) are intriguing, though I am no expert and do not know why it turns up this result. The number 219 keeps popping up, but I don't know what that signifies if anything. I am hoping that at least one of the experts here will read the report and immediately recignise something very silly that can easily be corrected. If not, I now have *two* spare hard discs(!) DiscKnight 1.40 (28-Dec-2002) [32bit] Serial no. 21300084 Arguments: -v -t -s ADFS 5 Boot block - Boot Record Number of Tracks : 0 Number of...

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