f



Hard Disc format

I have just formatted a Maxtor 250Gb drive on my Iyonix but Free tells 
me it only has 128Gb of space on it - is this a imitation of the 
Iyonix or have I overlooked something, I just accepted the defaults 
that HForm gave me.

JayCee
0
jaycee (105)
7/2/2005 9:17:19 AM
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JayCee wrote:
> I have just formatted a Maxtor 250Gb drive on my Iyonix but Free tells 
> me it only has 128Gb of space on it - is this a imitation of the 
> Iyonix or have I overlooked something, I just accepted the defaults 
> that HForm gave me.

ADFS (and HForm) carry a physical limitation of 128Gb.

Drives >128Gb use feature sets not used on smaller drives, so the ADFS 
module needs to support that.

Whilst the API for Filecore on RISC OS 5 has been designed to support 
256Gb, I'm not aware of that restriction being lifted from ADFS. Select 
also currently formats and uses drives up to 128Gb on ADFS.


Best wishes,

Drew
0
user7 (4036)
7/2/2005 11:03:01 AM
On 2 Jul 2005 JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> I have just formatted a Maxtor 250Gb drive on my Iyonix but Free tells 
> me it only has 128Gb of space on it - is this a imitation of the 
> Iyonix or have I overlooked something, I just accepted the defaults 
> that HForm gave me.

Use DiscKnight's verbose display to see what size you've actually formatted
it to.

---druck

-- 
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/
0
news5843 (7461)
7/2/2005 12:34:26 PM
In message <284027844d.druck@druck.freeuk.net>
          druck <news@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:

> On 2 Jul 2005 JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> I have just formatted a Maxtor 250Gb drive on my Iyonix but Free tells
>> me it only has 128Gb of space on it - is this a imitation of the
>> Iyonix or have I overlooked something, I just accepted the defaults
>> that HForm gave me.
> 
> Use DiscKnight's verbose display to see what size you've actually formatted
> it to.
> 
Ah yes, such a useful, but often forgotten, application.

It checks out OK at 128Gb - guess I'll have to wait for ADFS to catch 
up with the real world to make full use of it.

I presume till told otherwise that it will not give any problems being 
used at half capacity.

JayCee
0
jaycee (105)
7/2/2005 1:35:51 PM
In article <6fb82c844d.jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk>,
   JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Ah yes, such a useful, but often forgotten, application.

> It checks out OK at 128Gb - guess I'll have to wait for ADFS to catch 
> up with the real world to make full use of it.

> I presume till told otherwise that it will not give any problems being 
> used at half capacity.

Dunno what the Iyonix offers, but the normal way would be to partition it
into acceptable sized drives.

-- 
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.
0
dave137 (3026)
7/2/2005 1:43:26 PM
On 2 Jul 2005 JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <284027844d.druck@druck.freeuk.net>
>           druck <news@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
>> On 2 Jul 2005 JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I have just formatted a Maxtor 250Gb drive on my Iyonix but Free tells me
>>> it only has 128Gb of space on it - is this a imitation of the Iyonix or
>>> have I overlooked something, I just accepted the defaults that HForm gave
>>> me.
>> 
>> Use DiscKnight's verbose display to see what size you've actually
>> formatted it to.
>> 
> Ah yes, such a useful, but often forgotten, application.
> 
> It checks out OK at 128Gb - guess I'll have to wait for ADFS to catch 
> up with the real world to make full use of it.

Even if you can format it to that size, the Iyonix's IDE controller will
only use UDMA on the first 128GB, so the 2nd half would operate at a fraction
of the speed.

So you would be much better off getting two 128GB disc for the Iyonix, so you
can use the full capacity straight away, and at full speed.
 
> I presume till told otherwise that it will not give any problems being 
> used at half capacity.

None at all. But its a waste as even if you put a Linux partition on it,
Linux with a 4MB/s disc isn't going to be much use.

Can you return it, and get two 128's, or swap it for a disc in a PC or
something?

---druck

-- 
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/
0
news5843 (7461)
7/2/2005 1:48:31 PM
In message of 2 Jul, JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <284027844d.druck@druck.freeuk.net>
>           druck <news@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> 

> > 
> > Use DiscKnight's verbose display to see what size you've actually formatted
> > it to.
> > 
> Ah yes, such a useful, but often forgotten, application.
> 
> It checks out OK at 128Gb - guess I'll have to wait for ADFS to catch 
> up with the real world to make full use of it.

Isn't there a problem with the LFAU?  In other words on really big
drives too much space is used per directory and you end up with half
the disc effectively unused.

RISC OS versions 3 ran out of discs at, was it 8 Gbytes of so and RISC
OS 4 (and 5) brought in a much better format for larger drives.
Likewise I think I've heard that we now need a btter format again for
the even larger drives.

-- 
Tim Powys-Lybbe������������������������������������������tim@powys.org
�������������For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
0
tim222 (1366)
7/2/2005 1:59:12 PM
In message <4d842d9179dave@davenoise.co.uk>
          "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <6fb82c844d.jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk>,
>    JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> Ah yes, such a useful, but often forgotten, application.
> 
>> It checks out OK at 128Gb - guess I'll have to wait for ADFS to catch
>> up with the real world to make full use of it.
> 
>> I presume till told otherwise that it will not give any problems being
>> used at half capacity.
> 
> Dunno what the Iyonix offers, but the normal way would be to partition it
> into acceptable sized drives.
> 
Sorry to appear ignorant but how do you do that?

JayCee
0
jaycee (105)
7/2/2005 2:03:22 PM
In message <82082e844d.druck@druck.freeuk.net>
          druck <news@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:

> On 2 Jul 2005 JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <284027844d.druck@druck.freeuk.net>
>>           druck <news@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
>>> On 2 Jul 2005 JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I have just formatted a Maxtor 250Gb drive on my Iyonix but Free tells me
>>>> it only has 128Gb of space on it - is this a imitation of the Iyonix or
>>>> have I overlooked something, I just accepted the defaults that HForm gave
>>>> me.
>>> 
>>> Use DiscKnight's verbose display to see what size you've actually
>>> formatted it to.
>>> 
>> Ah yes, such a useful, but often forgotten, application.
>> 
>> It checks out OK at 128Gb - guess I'll have to wait for ADFS to catch
>> up with the real world to make full use of it.
> 
> Even if you can format it to that size, the Iyonix's IDE controller will
> only use UDMA on the first 128GB, so the 2nd half would operate at a fraction
> of the speed.
> 
> So you would be much better off getting two 128GB disc for the Iyonix, so you
> can use the full capacity straight away, and at full speed.
> 
>> I presume till told otherwise that it will not give any problems being
>> used at half capacity.
> 
> None at all. But its a waste as even if you put a Linux partition on it,
> Linux with a 4MB/s disc isn't going to be much use.
> 
> Can you return it, and get two 128's, or swap it for a disc in a PC or
> something?
> 
Looks like the wife's PC may have to be opened up again!!

Thanks for all the info everybodypeeps.

JayCee
0
jaycee (105)
7/2/2005 2:04:59 PM
On 2 Jul 2005 Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org> wrote:
> In message of 2 Jul, JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <284027844d.druck@druck.freeuk.net>
>>           druck <news@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
>>> Use DiscKnight's verbose display to see what size you've actually
>>> formatted it to.
>>> 
>> Ah yes, such a useful, but often forgotten, application.
>> 
>> It checks out OK at 128Gb - guess I'll have to wait for ADFS to catch  up
>> with the real world to make full use of it.
> 
> Isn't there a problem with the LFAU?  In other words on really big drives
> too much space is used per directory and you end up with half the disc
> effectively unused.

It isn't preventing use over 128GB, but it is a problem.
 
> RISC OS versions 3 ran out of discs at, was it 8 Gbytes of so and RISC
> OS 4 (and 5) brought in a much better format for larger drives.

The E+ format is 16x more efficent, which means a 128GB disc has the same
LFAU as an 8GB pre-RISC OS 4 E format.

> Likewise I think I've heard that we now need a btter format again for
> the even larger drives.

The E+ format has scope to increase storage efficency again by at least 16x,
at the expense of a disc map which could be up to 20MB, leading to much
longer times to mount the disc, and slower file allocation operations.

The alternative would be to adopt one of the open source filing systems such
as those used in Linux. Which would also be the opportunity to address the
2GB file limit, and introduce a new set of disc APIs.
 
---druck

-- 
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/
0
news5843 (7461)
7/2/2005 5:09:29 PM
Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
> In message of 2 Jul, JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
>>In message <284027844d.druck@druck.freeuk.net>
>>          druck <news@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
>>
> 
> 
>>>Use DiscKnight's verbose display to see what size you've actually formatted
>>>it to.
>>>
>>
>>Ah yes, such a useful, but often forgotten, application.
>>
>>It checks out OK at 128Gb - guess I'll have to wait for ADFS to catch 
>>up with the real world to make full use of it.
> 
> 
> Isn't there a problem with the LFAU?  In other words on really big
> drives too much space is used per directory and you end up with half
> the disc effectively unused.

The disc map will be bigger and less efficient with drives that big.

> RISC OS versions 3 ran out of discs at, was it 8 Gbytes of so and RISC
> OS 4 (and 5) brought in a much better format for larger drives.
> Likewise I think I've heard that we now need a btter format again for
> the even larger drives.
> 

It will be less efficient, but not necessarily problematic at that size.

The problem is with the drive access itself, and it is the same problem 
as that faced by PCs (you can't use >128Gb on Windows 95 or 98 IIRC).

Basically, the disc controller uses 28-bits to store the sector number. 
Each sector consists of 512 bytes on a conventional hard drive.

You therefore get a total of 128Gb address area.

New drives use 48-bit addressing, rather than 28-bit addressing. They 
also allow variable sector sizes, but I've not seen that in use.

However, new addressing modes require new calls to access them; it is 
the lack of support for 48-bit addressing which is the reason why the 
drives won't talk to ADFS.

A fully implemented DiscOp 64 (I note that the Filecore docs on the 
Iyonix site refer to a proposed API there, but not necessary complete 
implementation for the longer disc address) would pass the call to ADFS 
OK; but ADFS then needs modifying to use the longer disc addresses when 
given a suitable drive.


Partitioning also won't work, because you can't pass an address higher 
than 128Gb to put the partition at!!!

Filesystems on the whole in RISC OS do need a dramatic shake-up to keep 
up with the modern world; this is just one of the immediately 
foreseeable problems.

Best wishes,

Drew
0
user7 (4036)
7/2/2005 11:44:11 PM
In article <84962e844d.jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk>,
   JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > Dunno what the Iyonix offers, but the normal way would be to partition it
> > into acceptable sized drives.
> > 
> Sorry to appear ignorant but how do you do that?

That's why I said it might not be possible with a standard Iyonix as in my
case I use an expansion IDE card, but on a RPC.

-- 
*Born free - taxed to death *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.
0
dave137 (3026)
7/3/2005 8:24:31 AM
In message <42c726ca$0$2021$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
          Andrew Hill <user@example.net> wrote:

> Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
> > In message of 2 Jul, JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>In message <284027844d.druck@druck.freeuk.net>
> >>          druck <news@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> >>
> > 
> > 
> >>>Use DiscKnight's verbose display to see what size you've actually formatted
> >>>it to.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Ah yes, such a useful, but often forgotten, application.
> >>
> >>It checks out OK at 128Gb - guess I'll have to wait for ADFS to catch 
> >>up with the real world to make full use of it.
> > 
> > 
> > Isn't there a problem with the LFAU?  In other words on really big
> > drives too much space is used per directory and you end up with half
> > the disc effectively unused.
> 
> The disc map will be bigger and less efficient with drives that big.
> 
> > RISC OS versions 3 ran out of discs at, was it 8 Gbytes of so and RISC
> > OS 4 (and 5) brought in a much better format for larger drives.
> > Likewise I think I've heard that we now need a btter format again for
> > the even larger drives.
> > 
> 
> It will be less efficient, but not necessarily problematic at that size.
> 
> The problem is with the drive access itself, and it is the same problem 
> as that faced by PCs (you can't use >128Gb on Windows 95 or 98 IIRC).
> 
> Basically, the disc controller uses 28-bits to store the sector number. 
> Each sector consists of 512 bytes on a conventional hard drive.
> 
> You therefore get a total of 128Gb address area.
> 
> New drives use 48-bit addressing, rather than 28-bit addressing. They 
> also allow variable sector sizes, but I've not seen that in use.
> 
> However, new addressing modes require new calls to access them; it is 
> the lack of support for 48-bit addressing which is the reason why the 
> drives won't talk to ADFS.
> 
> A fully implemented DiscOp 64 (I note that the Filecore docs on the 
> Iyonix site refer to a proposed API there, but not necessary complete 
> implementation for the longer disc address) would pass the call to ADFS 
> OK; but ADFS then needs modifying to use the longer disc addresses when 
> given a suitable drive.
> 
> 
> Partitioning also won't work, because you can't pass an address higher 
> than 128Gb to put the partition at!!!
> 
> Filesystems on the whole in RISC OS do need a dramatic shake-up to keep 
> up with the modern world; this is just one of the immediately 
> foreseeable problems.

And for those who are thinking this means "windows is best", at work I've
been struggling to get a 120GB disc to boot up a two-year old XP PC. It's a
1700MHz processor, to give an idea of its vintage.

The disc is visible to the bios. It can be used as a second disc, and
everything works, including Disk Administration, which partitions and
formats it as required. I can copy the contents of the boot disc to it using
Ghost, no problem. I can see those contents while it is a second disc. If I
make it the boot disc, windows starts, gets past the black screen with the
WindowsXP logo and the progress bar, gets to the blue screen with the
WindowsXP logo on, and freezes.

Every time.

I've tried creating a 30G first partition and putting the boot disc's
contents in that. I've tried the capacity limit jumper, so the drive reports
itself as 32GB.

Neither work. In addition with the capacity limit jumper, Ghost crashes
while copying.

The advice from the vendor of the PC is - there isn't a problem.
The advice from a support organisation used to dealing with the vendor's kit
is - it probably can't be made to work.

The vendor is Research Machines.

It's not just us.

Alan

-- 
Alan Adams
alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.nckc.org.uk/
0
alan.adams (504)
7/3/2005 10:31:48 PM
In article <c8022f844d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>,
   Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org> wrote:
> In message of 2 Jul, JayCee <jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> > In message <284027844d.druck@druck.freeuk.net>
> >           druck <news@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> > 

> > > 
> > > Use DiscKnight's verbose display to see what size you've actually formatted
> > > it to.
> > > 
> > Ah yes, such a useful, but often forgotten, application.
> > 
> > It checks out OK at 128Gb - guess I'll have to wait for ADFS to catch 
> > up with the real world to make full use of it.

> Isn't there a problem with the LFAU?  In other words on really big
> drives too much space is used per directory and you end up with half
> the disc effectively unused.

> RISC OS versions 3 ran out of discs at, was it 8 Gbytes of so and RISC
> OS 4 (and 5) brought in a much better format for larger drives.
> Likewise I think I've heard that we now need a btter format again for
> the even larger drives.

Ahem.. But why do we need bigger drives on a RPC?

I have 20G and despite it having complete backups of the drives of both my
daughters RPCs on it I still have plenty of room.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

From is valid but subject to change without notice if it gets spammed.

For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
See: http://www.barndance.org.uk
0
SW_NOSPAM (1409)
7/3/2005 11:44:57 PM
In article <1bc7e1844d.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, 
alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk says...

[snip]

> And for those who are thinking this means "windows is best", at work I've
> been struggling to get a 120GB disc to boot up a two-year old XP PC. It's a
> 1700MHz processor, to give an idea of its vintage.

There is no 'best' OS only those that do what you want.

> The disc is visible to the bios. It can be used as a second disc, and
> everything works, including Disk Administration, which partitions and
> formats it as required. I can copy the contents of the boot disc to it using
> Ghost, no problem. I can see those contents while it is a second disc. If I
> make it the boot disc, windows starts, gets past the black screen with the
> WindowsXP logo and the progress bar, gets to the blue screen with the
> WindowsXP logo on, and freezes.

It rather depends on which edition of XP you are using to be able to do 
what you want.

[snip]

> The vendor is Research Machines.

And you believe that it's only 2 years old...

> It's not just us.

It is. The 48bit LBA problem only applies to drives over 137.4 GB.

-- 
Greg Harris (Norwich, UK)
0
greg1 (566)
7/3/2005 11:57:52 PM
Greg wrote:
> In article <1bc7e1844d.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, 
> alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk says...
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
>>And for those who are thinking this means "windows is best", at work I've
>>been struggling to get a 120GB disc to boot up a two-year old XP PC. It's a
>>1700MHz processor, to give an idea of its vintage.
> 
> 
> There is no 'best' OS only those that do what you want.
> 
> 
>>The disc is visible to the bios. It can be used as a second disc, and
>>everything works, including Disk Administration, which partitions and
>>formats it as required. I can copy the contents of the boot disc to it using
>>Ghost, no problem. I can see those contents while it is a second disc. If I
>>make it the boot disc, windows starts, gets past the black screen with the
>>WindowsXP logo and the progress bar, gets to the blue screen with the
>>WindowsXP logo on, and freezes.
> 
There's a util in one of the windows XP cab files on the installation 
medium that needs to be run before copying the disk to fix this.

It's a stupid 'security feature' in windows XP.

I can't remember what the util is, but it can be googled for.
0
tom2836 (43)
7/4/2005 12:09:35 AM
In article <4d84e8794bSW_NOSPAM@dsl.pipex.com>,
   News <SW_NOSPAM@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

[Snippy]

> Ahem.. But why do we need bigger drives on a RPC?

> I have 20G and despite it having complete backups of the drives of both
> my daughters RPCs on it I still have plenty of room.

I guess, once you start using a digital camera... or downloading Music
files, free hardisk space  vanishes quite quickly.

Cheers
Dave S

-- 

0
dfs (2099)
7/4/2005 5:08:38 AM
In article <4d84e8794bSW_NOSPAM@dsl.pipex.com>,
   News <SW_NOSPAM@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>

> Ahem.. But why do we need bigger drives on a RPC?

For pictures.  They are memory intensive.

-- 
From KT24 - in "leafy" Surrey

Using a RISC OS5 computer
0
charles7889 (2007)
7/4/2005 6:42:08 AM
In message of 4 Jul, Dave Symes <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote:

> In article <4d84e8794bSW_NOSPAM@dsl.pipex.com>,
>    News <SW_NOSPAM@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> 
> [Snippy]
> 
> > Ahem.. But why do we need bigger drives on a RPC?
> 
> > I have 20G and despite it having complete backups of the drives of both
> > my daughters RPCs on it I still have plenty of room.
> 
> I guess, once you start using a digital camera... or downloading Music
> files, free hardisk space  vanishes quite quickly.

Plus you can put CDROMs on your disc drive, massively speeding up
access times.

And then all the saved posts from over 10 years of internet access add
up to a few bytes.

-- 
Tim Powys-Lybbe������������������������������������������tim@powys.org
�������������For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
0
tim222 (1366)
7/4/2005 6:48:42 AM
In article <1bc7e1844d.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>,
   Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> And for those who are thinking this means "windows is best", at work
> I've been struggling to get a 120GB disc to boot up a two-year old XP
> PC. It's a 1700MHz processor, to give an idea of its vintage.

> The disc is visible to the bios. It can be used as a second disc, and
> everything works, including Disk Administration, which partitions and
> formats it as required. I can copy the contents of the boot disc to it
> using Ghost, no problem. I can see those contents while it is a second
> disc. If I make it the boot disc, windows starts, gets past the black
> screen with the WindowsXP logo and the progress bar, gets to the blue
> screen with the WindowsXP logo on, and freezes.

My understanding is that this is what is meant to happen! Micros**t don't
want you to be able to easily copy XP to a new disc otherwise you could
make mutiple clone disks to use in many machines. If you have an XP retail
version rather than OEM, I think you need to instal from scratch on the
new disk and then persuade MS to give you a new authentification code
having convinced them that the old disc is no longer useable.

Alan

-- 
 --. --. --. --. : : --- --- ----------------------------
 |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_   |    alan.dawes@argonet.co.uk
 | | |\  | | | | |\| |    |  
 | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__  |     Using an Acorn RiscPC

0
alan.dawes (433)
7/4/2005 8:12:22 AM
Alan P Dawes wrote:
> 
> My understanding is that this is what is meant to happen! Micros**t don't
> want you to be able to easily copy XP to a new disc otherwise you could
> make mutiple clone disks to use in many machines. If you have an XP retail
> version rather than OEM, I think you need to instal from scratch on the
> new disk and then persuade MS to give you a new authentification code
> having convinced them that the old disc is no longer useable.
> 
> Alan
> 
Truly, there is a util hidden in one of the cab files that disables 
this. It's very handy for making install images for identical machines.
(also you usually need to strip out the install-id if that's what you 
are doing, but this isn't as simple with XP as it is with other versions 
of windows.)
0
tom2836 (43)
7/4/2005 8:21:20 AM
In article <4d8516dd9aalan.dawes@argonet.co.uk>,
   Alan P Dawes <alan.dawes@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> My understanding is that this is what is meant to happen! Micros**t don't
> want you to be able to easily copy XP to a new disc otherwise you could
> make mutiple clone disks to use in many machines. If you have an XP retail
> version rather than OEM, I think you need to instal from scratch on the
> new disk and then persuade MS to give you a new authentification code
> having convinced them that the old disc is no longer useable.

Slight correction:

They don't want *home* users doing that. The Enterprise licence version
(Pro) can be cloned across many discs.

As to the util for producing the rolled back install - you may be thinking
of SysPrep.

0
7/4/2005 4:36:51 PM
In message <MPG.1d328bd8e5ba3b439896d5@news.demon.co.uk>
          Greg <greg@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <1bc7e1844d.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, 
> alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk says...
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > And for those who are thinking this means "windows is best", at work I've
> > been struggling to get a 120GB disc to boot up a two-year old XP PC. It's a
> > 1700MHz processor, to give an idea of its vintage.
> 
> There is no 'best' OS only those that do what you want.
> 
> > The disc is visible to the bios. It can be used as a second disc, and
> > everything works, including Disk Administration, which partitions and
> > formats it as required. I can copy the contents of the boot disc to it using
> > Ghost, no problem. I can see those contents while it is a second disc. If I
> > make it the boot disc, windows starts, gets past the black screen with the
> > WindowsXP logo and the progress bar, gets to the blue screen with the
> > WindowsXP logo on, and freezes.
> 
> It rather depends on which edition of XP you are using to be able to do 
> what you want.

So is this affected by service pack level?

> 
> [snip]
> 
> > The vendor is Research Machines.
> 
> And you believe that it's only 2 years old...

It's not as old as a machine which is still within its three-year warranty.

> > It's not just us.
> 
> It is. The 48bit LBA problem only applies to drives over 137.4 GB.

But this drive is 120GB, i.e. it should work with 28bit LBA, and it doesn't.

It seems that a 10-year old RPC works better than a PC sold two years ago.

-- 
Alan Adams
alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.nckc.org.uk/
0
alan.adams (504)
7/4/2005 5:59:52 PM
In message <37%xe.15698$ZR1.934@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>
          Thomas Rankin <tom@sanguinarius.dyndns.org> wrote:

> Greg wrote:
> > In article <1bc7e1844d.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, 
> > alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk says...
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > 
> >>And for those who are thinking this means "windows is best", at work I've
> >>been struggling to get a 120GB disc to boot up a two-year old XP PC. It's a
> >>1700MHz processor, to give an idea of its vintage.
> > 
> > 
> > There is no 'best' OS only those that do what you want.
> > 
> > 
> >>The disc is visible to the bios. It can be used as a second disc, and
> >>everything works, including Disk Administration, which partitions and
> >>formats it as required. I can copy the contents of the boot disc to it using
> >>Ghost, no problem. I can see those contents while it is a second disc. If I
> >>make it the boot disc, windows starts, gets past the black screen with the
> >>WindowsXP logo and the progress bar, gets to the blue screen with the
> >>WindowsXP logo on, and freezes.
> > 
> There's a util in one of the windows XP cab files on the installation 
> medium that needs to be run before copying the disk to fix this.
> 
> It's a stupid 'security feature' in windows XP.
> 
> I can't remember what the util is, but it can be googled for.

Once again RISC OS newsgroups answer questions that PC support services can't.

Alan

-- 
Alan Adams
alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.nckc.org.uk/
0
alan.adams (504)
7/4/2005 6:01:15 PM
In article <f0d74c854d.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, Alan
Adams
<alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> Once again RISC OS newsgroups answer questions that PC support services
> can't.

I'm trying to think of a PC vendor more useless than RM, and failing.

0
7/4/2005 6:47:22 PM
In article <a4b74c854d.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, 
alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk says...
> In message <MPG.1d328bd8e5ba3b439896d5@news.demon.co.uk>
>           Greg <greg@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> > It rather depends on which edition of XP you are using to be able to do 
> > what you want.
> 
> So is this affected by service pack level?

Nope, more the licensing conditions. It sounds like you're using one of 
the 'retail' editions. These can be tricked by the use of apps like xp-
AntiSpy though.

> > > The vendor is Research Machines.
> > 
> > And you believe that it's only 2 years old...
> 
> It's not as old as a machine which is still within its three-year warranty.

Try running Everest <http://www.lavalys.com/> and see what dates it 
gives for components.

> > > It's not just us.
> > 
> > It is. The 48bit LBA problem only applies to drives over 137.4 GB.
> 
> But this drive is 120GB, i.e. it should work with 28bit LBA, and it doesn't.

Sounds like they are jumpered wrongly or just incompatible together.

> It seems that a 10-year old RPC works better than a PC sold two years ago.

In a few aspects I agree but mainly no.

-- 
Greg Harris (Norwich, UK)
0
greg1 (566)
7/5/2005 1:33:09 PM
In message <MPG.1d349c1558ae14169896d6@news.demon.co.uk>
          Greg <greg@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <a4b74c854d.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, 
> alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk says...
> > In message <MPG.1d328bd8e5ba3b439896d5@news.demon.co.uk>
> >           Greg <greg@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > > It rather depends on which edition of XP you are using to be able to do 
> > > what you want.
> > 
> > So is this affected by service pack level?
> 
> Nope, more the licensing conditions. It sounds like you're using one of 
> the 'retail' editions. These can be tricked by the use of apps like xp-
> AntiSpy though.

It is XP Pro, bulk license. The systems are shipped in an OEM state, so when
you switch on they run Windows Setup and configure themselves, without
asking for a license key. I have found a fix, and a better solution, with
some help. I'll keep it brief, as it's off topic.

I realised eventually that it was freezing partway through displaying the
welcome screen. I changed settings on the original disc, to not use the
welcome screen, ghosted it again, and it got to a login window. Username and
correct password entered, brief display of Saving your settings, and back to
login. So it was logging out as soon as logging in.

Since this suggested broken files in Windows, I did a reinstall of Windows
from CD, selecting repair. This fixed it.

It would appear - either some file in Windows contains different data
depending on the size of the partition, and increasing the size too far
exposes the problem, or Ghost 8 isn't creating the filing system quite
correctly.

Whichever it is I now have a workaround.

The better solution involved using RMRESTOR on the original disc to put it
into factory shipped condition, cloning that before booting it (which
finishes Windows setup), and then allowing Windows setup to run when booting
the new disc.

It is even possible to use RMRESTOR to save this cloned state before running
setup, so that the new disc has a good, factory recovery point. And the
whole process only takes about an hour.

I reckon it's been a valuable learning experience.

> 
> > > > The vendor is Research Machines.
> > > 
> > > And you believe that it's only 2 years old...
> > 
> > It's not as old as a machine which is still within its three-year warranty.
> 
> Try running Everest <http://www.lavalys.com/> and see what dates it 
> gives for components.
> 
> > > > It's not just us.
> > > 
> > > It is. The 48bit LBA problem only applies to drives over 137.4 GB.
> > 
> > But this drive is 120GB, i.e. it should work with 28bit LBA, and it doesn't.
> 
> Sounds like they are jumpered wrongly or just incompatible together.
> 
> > It seems that a 10-year old RPC works better than a PC sold two years ago.
> 
> In a few aspects I agree but mainly no.
> 

-- 
Alan Adams
alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.nckc.org.uk/
0
alan.adams (504)
7/5/2005 9:05:18 PM
In article <a687e1854d.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>,
   Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> It would appear - either some file in Windows contains different data
> depending on the size of the partition, and increasing the size too far
> exposes the problem, or Ghost 8 isn't creating the filing system quite
> correctly.

2k and XP retain information about mass storage devices.

Coming back on topic I believe the Iyonix has something similar related to
the specific video card in use.

0
7/6/2005 6:24:18 AM
In article <42c67464$0$41902$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>, Andrew Hill
<URL:mailto:user@example.net> wrote:
> JayCee wrote:
> > I have just formatted a Maxtor 250Gb drive on my Iyonix but Free tells 
> > me it only has 128Gb of space on it - is this a imitation of the 
> > Iyonix or have I overlooked something, I just accepted the defaults 
> > that HForm gave me.
> 
> ADFS (and HForm) carry a physical limitation of 128Gb.

I know you've looked into ADFS quite a bit, but unless my memory is very
soft we used briefly a 160GB HD on a RiscPC here.
IIRC we couldn't get HForm on the Iyonix to see all 160GB but using the
Select version on a RiscPC did initialise the drive correctly and it then
worked on both the Iyonix and the RiscPC.

n.b. I know that the extra space can't accessed at full speed on the Iyonix.
 
> Drives >128Gb use feature sets not used on smaller drives, so the ADFS 
> module needs to support that.
> 
> Whilst the API for Filecore on RISC OS 5 has been designed to support 
> 256Gb, I'm not aware of that restriction being lifted from ADFS. Select 
> also currently formats and uses drives up to 128Gb on ADFS.


Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

0
chris8168 (2937)
7/6/2005 10:17:55 AM
Reply:

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Hi. Know this is a tall order but does anyone have an IDE interface for the A3010 which I could use to connect a hard disc to the machine? Also, I need a user port on the expansion card. I dont need a hard disc, I have two in an A7000 and I could take one for this. Know it wont fit, but neatness doesnt really matter. I just need the inteface. Alternatively does anyone have an expansion card of any sort whatsoever for an A7000 with a user port on it? I really dont care what it is so long as theres a user port (for an external control box I want to get working for a model railway). If anyone has one they dont want could they email me? Dallimoj@coventry.ac.uk Would prefer an email as I wont have a chance to check the group for a while. A freebie would be great (I would pay postage etc) but otherwise email me with a price and I'll consider it. Cant pay too much tho Im a poor skivvy student!! :-) Many thanks in advance Jon Dallimore On 22-Jun-2005, "Jon Dallimore" <dallimoj@coventry.ac.uk> wrote: > Know this is a tall order but does anyone have an IDE interface for > the A3010 which I could use to connect a hard disc to the machine? > Also, I need a user port on the expansion card. I dont need a hard > disc, I have two in an A7000 and I could take one for this. Know it > wont fit, but neatness doesnt really matter. I just need the > inteface. > > Alternatively does anyone have an expansion card of any sort > whatsoever for an...

More hard disc woes
After all the difficulties I recently had -- but never solved -- getting a 120 GB disc recognised on a RISC OS 4 RiscPC, I've now tried another brand-new disc. This one is 80 GB (a size that is known to be usable on RO 4), and I haven't run HForm or similar tools on it as it came "ready to use" and I don't want to risk rendering it completely unusable. Once again it is not recognised, suggesting that there is something fundamentally wrong here. The 40 GB it replaced worked fine as slave to the 16 GB, the 40 GB is now the master and the 80 is jumpered as slave, so it's really rather puzzling! When I had the same problem with the 120 GB I also tried having it as the master with no slave and that made no difference, so I haven't tried that this time (I really don't fancy stripping down to the motherboard level again!) and strongly feel that it would change nothing. I ran DiscKnight to get some basic info, and the results (below) are intriguing, though I am no expert and do not know why it turns up this result. The number 219 keeps popping up, but I don't know what that signifies if anything. I am hoping that at least one of the experts here will read the report and immediately recignise something very silly that can easily be corrected. If not, I now have *two* spare hard discs(!) DiscKnight 1.40 (28-Dec-2002) [32bit] Serial no. 21300084 Arguments: -v -t -s ADFS 5 Boot block - Boot Record Number of Tracks : 0 Number of...

Hard Disc linking
Hi, I have just installed a second hard disc (with no links, = slave) and all works perfectly. I had to work out whether the boot disc was configured as a Master or as Drive select so I checked the documentation that came with the disc many years ago. I was surprised as to how the boot disc is configured. All works well was I didn't alter anything but I am left curious. The boot disc is a Maxtor 5T030H3 and is linked as follows; Link between Pins 1 and 6 Link between Pins 2 and 3 X = Pin O = No Pin 1 2 3 4 5 X X X O X X X X X X 6 7 ...

Hard disc recovery
I had a somewhat strange experience today with a hard drive. Some months ago I decided to upgrade the hard drive on my PC from 100GB to 160GB. The drives were formatted to NTFS. I used the now spare 100GB drive in my Risc PC, initialising it with my Unipod, where it has been used since February this year. As the 100GB was a bit over the top and the PC again needed more space, I reverted the Risc PC to its original 10GB drive and put the 100GB drive - still with all the Risc PC stuff on it - back into the PC, as a slave to the other drive. When I turned the PC on, it went into a half hour ...

Replacement Hard Disc
I have a RISC PC 600 with RISC OS 3.6. The current hard disc appears to have failed with hard errors. I have been unable to find out what the maximum hard disc size that I can fit is - I've been unable to run HForm (I've tried several versions) with a 40Gb HD. So, some questions: What is the maximum size HD that I can add with the current OS and what version of HForm would I use? Can I just add some spare 3.7 ROMs I have and would it make any difference? Where can I get a very small HD if the answer to the above is less than about 18Gb (the smallest I can make available)? What upgrades would make sense in this situation? Thanking you in advance. John Haines In article <4cc4b35ec8jhaines@argonet.co.uk>, John Haines <jhaines@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > Where can I get a very small HD if the answer to the above is less than > about 18Gb (the smallest I can make available)? > What upgrades would make sense in this situation? One answer might be an IDE card. Those can allow you to partition a larger disc so you have several all within the 3.6 maximum. IIRC. -- *I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. On 25 Jun 2004 John Haines <jhaines@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > I have a RISC PC 600 with RISC OS 3.6. The current hard disc appears to > have failed with hard errors. I have been unable to find out what the &...

SCSI Hard Disc
My Seagate SCSI HD hasn't run up and the tally light is pulsing. Disappeared off setup, too. Is it toast - or is their anything I can try? Luckily I only use it for temporary audio files so nothing important on it. I ran a test on it just the other day and it reported ok. Perhaps coincidence? -- *There's no place like www.home.com * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. In article <4d1b9717e5dave@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote: > My Seagate SCSI HD hasn't run up and the tally light is > pulsing. Disappeared off setup, too. Is it toast - or is their > anything I can try? ... Is it reported as present when you do *Devices? Brian. -- ______________________________________________________________ Brian Carroll, Ripon, North Yorkshire, UK bric at f2s dot com ______________________________________________________________ In article <4d1c16edfcbric-nospam@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Carroll <bric-nospam@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > > My Seagate SCSI HD hasn't run up and the tally light is > > pulsing. Disappeared off setup, too. Is it toast - or is their > > anything I can try? ... > Is it reported as present when you do *Devices? No. -- *I yell because I care Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. In article &...

Hard disc sick?
Hello, Don't know if this is a hardware issue or if it's just s/ware causing unnescessary concern. My HD verifys 100% perfect but I have recently strarted getting disc error messages when I load MPro. Nothing seems to get corrupted and everything works fine once I've clicked OK on all the errors but obviously I don't want to miss a warning sign that my HD's about to expire. I'm thinking it could well be hardware as also it keeps on re-initialising during use, certainly never used to park the heads after periods of inactivity which is what it appears to be doing now. Any one any thoughts? Pity there isn't a SATA podule available, I've got an 80GB SATA drive with about 3 hrs. use on it just sitting in a box. Also when I've got some money I'll be looking out for a new IDE podule as that Simtec one just isn't doing the job, am only getting onboard IDE performance levels out of it - think it's simply not working with DMA. If any one has a decent IDE card for sale I'd be interested to hear from them. Cheers, Mike.... -- Michael Hambley - mike@armpowered.co.uk http://www.armpowered.co.uk - My little corner of the web. http://www.dispose-it.co.uk - IT disposal/recycling & data destruction. http://www.ecoputers.co.uk - New and refurbished computers, peripherals etc. In message <7d2abf644d.Michael@armpowered.co.uk> Michael Hambley <mike@armpowered.co.uk> wrote: > expire. I'm thinking it c...

formatting hard drive
A friend has asked me to reformat his hard drive. He deleted windows xp! Surprise - surprise the pc doesn't boot up! He said he got a screen that asked if he wanted to restore it and he said yes, but it boots and them keeps shutting off. I think it will go into safe mode. He wants me to reformat it and install Win 2000 instead of XP. Now that Windows is gone (or partially gone), is it still the same process - bootable floppy, etc. Would that be a Win 2000 bootable floppy? Also, I have no idea what drivers it will need. Where will I find the driver information? Ken On 30 Se...

Hard disc recovery
I have a SCSI 120Gb hard disk that was accidently re-partitioned can anyone recommend a suitable tool to un partition the drive so I can recover the files on it ? Thanks On 3 Apr, 22:45, "freddy" <dsd....@hehg.com> wrote: > I have a SCSI 120Gb hard disk that was accidently re-partitioned can anyone > recommend a suitable tool to un partition the drive so I can recover the > files on it ? > > Thanks Hi freddy, Ouch! Bad luck. Thoughts that spring to mind are: -Dump an image of the drive 'as is' before you do anything else... ....mind you 120gb is going to need some room. Do you have a (um) PC/ Mac with scsi you could use to make the dump if space is tight on your Acorn..? -Something like DiscKnight may help - really an IDE recovery tool but you never know... -Having backed-up the drive first, repartitioning with the original map *may* get you a fair bit of your data back. -Thanks for the contributions :-)- Regards, Charles. Charlie wrote: > On 3 Apr, 22:45, "freddy" <dsd....@hehg.com> wrote: >> I have a SCSI 120Gb hard disk that was accidently re-partitioned can anyone >> recommend a suitable tool to un partition the drive so I can recover the >> files on it ? > -Something like DiscKnight may help - really an IDE recovery tool but > you never know... As long as the disc hasn't been repartitioned and reinitialised with the same sizes as originally (which will overwrite the disc ma...

Hardware hard in Linux?
OK, here's the scenario. Dual boot box consisting of a P4P-800-E DLX, Nvidia video card, printer, scanner, bells, whistles, and it's something I'm proud of. The Linux side is running Slack 10.2 with a custom 2.6.16 kernel and gware Gnome for the desktop. Mrs. Phist decided to buy me a wireless keyboard and mouse since my old ones are almost five years old and I've beaten them all to hell. She's not the most tech savvy person in the world and just went to Best Buy and got a Microsoft keyboard/mouse combo for about $40 CAN. Not a bad deal, but I'm going from PS2 wired k...

Disc not formatted error
I use floppy discs to transfer Organizer data between my computer and my friend's, on several occasions when I have put in my disc to write back to it I have got the error 'Disc not formatted' although it had read it earlier, and all other disc tried have produced the same error. Re-booting has made all read/writeable again. Then my friend when trying to save an back Exel file under DOS got the error 'Error when reading ADFS::Untittled.$-' . I had thought some rogue program might be upsetting the computer but then had the error occur when trying to read a disc imme...

How to format this hard drive
Hello everybody I have a 640 gb hard drive that has windows 7 pro 64 bit , It has a lot of viruses on it plus files i dont really need , The thing is i sold the pieces of the original computer it was in and i have only the hard drive left and i would like to erase everything on it and install windows 7 again however at the mean time i dont have a desktop pc , I sent it to my friend in the computer store for upgrades and im not going there soon either I have a lenovo g550 laptop , Can i connect the hard drive to the laptop and format it from there ? if possible then how do i do it Cheers Mike :D Yep can connect it via the USB port using a powered adapter such as this one--> www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200171 On 08/05/2012 20:17, rb wrote: > Yep can connect it via the USB port using a powered adapter such as this > one--> > www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200171 > > That's OK for the data side, what about power to the drive? He would be better off using an external USB type enclosure which could be used in the future as an external backup drive. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817366037 On 09/05/2012 08:12, Enrie Membership wrote: > On 08/05/2012 20:17, rb wrote: >> Yep can connect it via the USB port using a powered adapter such as this >> one--> >> www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200171 >> >> > > That's OK f...

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