Hi. Let me get this one right first.
I have a Mico and a Strongarm Risc PC. What, if different, is the 
correct way of describing what I have to the user group?

Now:-

1. How many users of Acorn machines are out there? I dont want to know 
if you/they use PCs as well.

2. I understand that RO ltd. and Castle are the main suppliers of 
Acorn stuff. Any others,please enlighten.

3. I feel that should the above suppliers (and others?) bury their 
differences and join to form one company, the resultant combine would 
be so much stronger and could only benefit the Acorn scene.
 If, because of selfish aspirations they will not join together.This 
can only mean the eventual demise of our beloved platform.

4.It would seem to me that we,the users and purchasers,of Acorn 
equipment and software,really do have the solution in our own hands. 
By joining together into one voice and demanding that reality is 
faced, or find that support, for those who show that they are not 
really interested in the good of our platform, will cease.

Hopeful.
Dave.

In article <1aed30c64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>,
   dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:

> I have a Mico and a Strongarm Risc PC. What, if different, is the 
> correct way of describing what I have to the user group?

They are both RISC OS machines - the Mico was definitely not made by Acorn,
a now defunct company, and your RPC may have been made by Acorn or may have
been made by Castle. Thus the correct common-denominator descriptor is RISC
OS.

> Now:-

> 1. How many users of Acorn machines are out there? I dont want to know 
> if you/they use PCs as well.

I think you mean RISC OS machines, probably. Who knows?

> 2. I understand that RO ltd. and Castle are the main suppliers of 
> Acorn stuff. Any others,please enlighten.

They're the only suppliers of (divergent) RISC OS operating systems, Castle
also building their own machines and owning the 'head' licence for RISC OS.

I think I'll leave it at that. World peace is a remote aspiration.

John

-- 
John Williams, Wirral, Merseyside, UK - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject
for reliable contact! Who is John Williams? http://www.picindex.info/author/ 

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:37:22 +0000, dave wrote:

> Hi. Let me get this one right first.
> I have a Mico and a Strongarm Risc PC. What, if different, is the 
> correct way of describing what I have to the user group?

One's an Acorn, the other is an Acorn-clone.  You could lump them both
into the "RISC OS box" category.

> 1. How many users of Acorn machines are out there? I dont want to know 
> if you/they use PCs as well.

Careful here - do you mean "Acorn machines" or "RISC OS machines" ?  The
answers will be very different.

If the later, I hear values between 2,000 and 10,000 quite frequently,
although I'd suggest the value was towards the lower-end of that spectrum.
(Also, what constitutes a RISC OS User?  Somebody who uses it and only it,
and no other systems, somebody who uses one for at least 50% of their
computer usage?  Somebody who uses a RISC OS computer once a week? etc)

> 2. I understand that RO ltd. and Castle are the main suppliers of 
> Acorn stuff. Any others,please enlighten.

RISCOS Ltd. (ROL) supply their own branch of RISC OS.  They also provide
schemes where you subscribe and don't receive anything of worth.

Castle Technology Ltd. / Iyonix Ltd. own the rights to RISC OS, and also
have their own version.  They also sell the aging Iyonix hardware, running
their own RISC OS.

Advantage Six sell the A9Home, which is another RISC OS box, designed to
be portable (but is not a laptop) and it runs RISCOS Ltd.'s version of
RISC OS.

> 3. I feel that should the above suppliers (and others?) bury their 
> differences and join to form one company, the resultant combine would 
> be so much stronger and could only benefit the Acorn scene.
>  If, because of selfish aspirations they will not join together.This 
> can only mean the eventual demise of our beloved platform.

Lack of competition is never healthy, no matter how small the market is. 
Additionally, some people in the RISC OS world are too stubborn and proud
for this to ever occur.

> 4.It would seem to me that we,the users and purchasers,of Acorn 
> equipment and software,really do have the solution in our own hands. 
> By joining together into one voice and demanding that reality is 
> faced, or find that support, for those who show that they are not 
> really interested in the good of our platform, will cease.

The only way consumers have to control what companies do is with their
feet - if a company isn't doing something the way you'd like, either don't
buy their products, or buy a huge number of voting shares in the company. 
Simply asking often won't do it - especially if people are still buying
current products anyway.

B.

Rob Kendrick <nntp@rjek.com> wrote:

> 
> > 1. How many users of Acorn machines are out there? I dont want to know

> > if you/they use PCs as well.
> 
> Careful here - do you mean "Acorn machines" or "RISC OS machines" ?  The
> answers will be very different.

I suppose it's the same difference as running a 'Dell' machine, a 'Compaq'
machine and a 'Windows' machine. The OS is the same, but the hardware
manufacturer isn't.

So, Acorn, Micro Digital, Castle, Risc Station, etc.

Cheers,

Ray D

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:30:34 +0000, Ray Dawson wrote:

> Rob Kendrick <nntp@rjek.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> > 1. How many users of Acorn machines are out there? I dont want to know
> 
>> > if you/they use PCs as well.
>> 
>> Careful here - do you mean "Acorn machines" or "RISC OS machines" ?  The
>> answers will be very different.
> 
> I suppose it's the same difference as running a 'Dell' machine, a 'Compaq'
> machine and a 'Windows' machine. The OS is the same, but the hardware
> manufacturer isn't.

Additionally, "Acorn machines" includes MOS and RISC iX hardware - and
even hardware without an OS.

B.

In message <pan.2007.03.19.21.39.12.273451@rjek.com>
          Rob Kendrick <nntp@rjek.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:30:34 +0000, Ray Dawson wrote:
> 
>> Rob Kendrick <nntp@rjek.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> > 1. How many users of Acorn machines are out there? I dont want to know
>> 
>>> > if you/they use PCs as well.
>>> 
>>> Careful here - do you mean "Acorn machines" or "RISC OS machines" ?  The
>>> answers will be very different.
>> 
>> I suppose it's the same difference as running a 'Dell' machine, a 'Compaq'
>> machine and a 'Windows' machine. The OS is the same, but the hardware
>> manufacturer isn't.
> 
> Additionally, "Acorn machines" includes MOS and RISC iX hardware - and
> even hardware without an OS.
> 
> B.

Ok. Acorn and / or RISC OS machines.

I'm trying to get a flavour of just how many, worldwide, people there 
could be. The more there are the more influence there could be to get 
what we want / need.
D.

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:02:29 +0000, dave wrote:

> Ok. Acorn and / or RISC OS machines.
> 
> I'm trying to get a flavour of just how many, worldwide, people there 
> could be. The more there are the more influence there could be to get 
> what we want / need.

There's no even remotely accurate way of measuring.

B.

In message <pan.2007.03.19.22.10.55.557576@rjek.com>
          Rob Kendrick <nntp@rjek.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:02:29 +0000, dave wrote:
> 
>> Ok. Acorn and / or RISC OS machines.
>> 
>> I'm trying to get a flavour of just how many, worldwide, people there
>> could be. The more there are the more influence there could be to get
>> what we want / need.
> 
> There's no even remotely accurate way of measuring.
> 
> B.

Mmm. At 10,000 users at say five pounds per month pledged.That's over 
half a million quid per annum to attract good programmers.

Dave.

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:23:11 +0000, dave wrote:

> In message <pan.2007.03.19.22.10.55.557576@rjek.com>
>           Rob Kendrick <nntp@rjek.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:02:29 +0000, dave wrote:
>> 
>>> Ok. Acorn and / or RISC OS machines.
>>> 
>>> I'm trying to get a flavour of just how many, worldwide, people there
>>> could be. The more there are the more influence there could be to get
>>> what we want / need.
>> 
>> There's no even remotely accurate way of measuring.

> Mmm. At 10,000 users at say five pounds per month pledged.That's over 
> half a million quid per annum to attract good programmers.

Firstly, I doubt there are that many, secondly, half a million pounds
would be better spent directly into the market, not by funding software
free development.  Otherwise you suddenly don't have a market anymore -
you have a charity.

B.

In article <fc9c3ac64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>,
   dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
> Mmm. At 10,000 users at say five pounds per month pledged.That's over
> half a million quid per annum to attract good programmers.

The problem is that I'd guess that probably 90% of RISC OS users don't read
these news groups and possibly don't even know that other RISC OS users
even exist anymore.

Sadly I can see no easy way of letting all the 1000s of RISC OS users know
that there are still other users around, other than mailshotting the entire
population.

Quite often during my day job people phone me up because they've heard from
a friend of a friend of a friend etc that I support RISC OS. When I say
that I still use a RISC OS as my main machine for work, they're actually
quite surprised to find someone else who still uses it. They all think
they're the only one left.

I'd love some way of networking all these remote users together so that
they know there are 100s of other people just like them.

Paul

-- 
Usenet replies: To contact me, visit www.vigay.com/feedback/

Quality Internet, Domain Registration & Hosting - www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
Life, the Universe, RISC OS Help and Everything - www.vigay.com/
For intelligent chat and discussion why not try - http://forum.vigay.com/

On 19-Mar-2007, dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:

> Ok. Acorn and / or RISC OS machines.

In that case if youre serious you'd have to include people using Virtual
Acorn on a PC. Especially as they now probably comprise one of the larger
groups of RISC OS users.
>
> I'm trying to get a flavour of just how many, worldwide, people there
> could be. The more there are the more influence there could be to get
> what we want / need.

You don't have a snowball's chance. You'd also have do divide it up into
people who regard RISC OS as a religion (a vociferous minority), those who
use RISC OS almost exclusively, those who use RISC OS and a PC/Mac/Linux
*some* of the time, and those who use RISC OS but a PC/Mac/Linux *most* of
the time. They all have wildly different requirements and I can guarantee
that the results of any sort of 'poll' will be so distorted as to be worse
than useless.

-- 
David Holden - APDL - <http://www.apdl.co.uk>

In message <4ec63c9a8einvalid-email-address@invalid-domain.co.uk>
          Paul Vigay <invalid-email-address@invalid-domain.co.uk> 
wrote:

> In article <fc9c3ac64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>,
>    dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
>> Mmm. At 10,000 users at say five pounds per month pledged.That's over
>> half a million quid per annum to attract good programmers.
> 
> The problem is that I'd guess that probably 90% of RISC OS users don't read
> these news groups and possibly don't even know that other RISC OS users
> even exist anymore.
> 
> Sadly I can see no easy way of letting all the 1000s of RISC OS users know
> that there are still other users around, other than mailshotting the entire
> population.
> 
> Quite often during my day job people phone me up because they've heard from
> a friend of a friend of a friend etc that I support RISC OS. When I say
> that I still use a RISC OS as my main machine for work, they're actually
> quite surprised to find someone else who still uses it. They all think
> they're the only one left.
> 
> I'd love some way of networking all these remote users together so that
> they know there are 100s of other people just like them.
> 
> Paul
> 
Thanks Paul,That's the first positive letter I was looking for.An 
element of hope and possible method. How does one send an email to 
everyone,just like the spammers do?(tongue in cheek question)
Dave.

In message <569iodF27shd1U1@mid.individual.net>
          David Holden <black_hole@apdl.co.uk> wrote:

> 
> On 19-Mar-2007, dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
> 
>> Ok. Acorn and / or RISC OS machines.
> 
> In that case if youre serious you'd have to include people using Virtual
> Acorn on a PC. Especially as they now probably comprise one of the larger
> groups of RISC OS users.
>>
>> I'm trying to get a flavour of just how many, worldwide, people there
>> could be. The more there are the more influence there could be to get
>> what we want / need.
> 
> You don't have a snowball's chance. You'd also have do divide it up into
> people who regard RISC OS as a religion (a vociferous minority), those who
> use RISC OS almost exclusively, those who use RISC OS and a PC/Mac/Linux
> *some* of the time, and those who use RISC OS but a PC/Mac/Linux *most* of
> the time. They all have wildly different requirements and I can guarantee
> that the results of any sort of 'poll' will be so distorted as to be worse
> than useless.
> 
  It would follow that if RISC OS was able to satisfy the needs of 
users that also used PC/Mac etc. Then they would not need to use the 
PC/Mac etc.
  I seem to recall your name from years ago,do I recognise you as 
having a good deal of experience in matters Acorn? Could I ask,Are 
there programmers out there who could bring RISC OSs up to date and 
would be prepared to do so if the money was there?
 I'm not sure that I am saying what I mean, but you are prob: getting 
the gist.

Dave.

In article <fdb738c64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>,
   dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:

> Ok. Acorn and / or RISC OS machines.

> I'm trying to get a flavour of just how many, worldwide, people there 
> could be. The more there are the more influence there could be to get 
> what we want / need.

What about people running RISC OS, but on Virtual Acorn?

They may have left the hardware platform, but are still very much interested
in the software.

R

-- 

  Richard Travers 
  richtnews@uwclub.net
  Truro, Cornwall
  01872 271125

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article <1aed30c64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>, dave
<URL:mailto:dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
> Hi. Let me get this one right first.
> I have a Mico and a Strongarm Risc PC. What, if different, is the 
> correct way of describing what I have to the user group?
> 
> Now:-
> 
> 1. How many users of Acorn machines are out there? I dont want to know 
> if you/they use PCs as well.
> 
> 2. I understand that RO ltd. and Castle are the main suppliers of 
> Acorn stuff. Any others,please enlighten.

Whilst we don't 'make' any computers we are the sole UK distributor for the
A9home! Also we have the widest range of software and internal/external
hardware for RISC OS computers:-)

Most of which are listed at: http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/prices
 
> 3. I feel that should the above suppliers (and others?) bury their 
> differences and join to form one company, the resultant combine would 
> be so much stronger and could only benefit the Acorn scene.
>  If, because of selfish aspirations they will not join together.This 
> can only mean the eventual demise of our beloved platform.

Whilst duplication of effort is not desirable, one large company covering
everything would be a nightmare.

> 4.It would seem to me that we,the users and purchasers,of Acorn 
> equipment and software,really do have the solution in our own hands. 
> By joining together into one voice and demanding that reality is 
> faced, or find that support, for those who show that they are not 
> really interested in the good of our platform, will cease.

Each of those left in the market has there own forte and are best left
playing to their strengths!


Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

In article <f7ef77c64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>,
   dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
> Thanks Paul,That's the first positive letter I was looking for.An 
> element of hope and possible method. How does one send an email to 
> everyone,just like the spammers do?(tongue in cheek question)

It's easy to be positive when you ignore the problems! ;-)

There are people out there (hidden) but you won't get to them any easy way.
Being hidden the likelihood is that any e-mail address that anyone has is
likely to be changed by now. Best method is by using the address - so can you
afford a postal mailing?

NB If someone paid the postage costs I'd be happy to send a flyer advertising
the Wakefield Show and Qercus to all the non-current Acorn User and Acorn
Publisher subscribers - and you could piggy-back on that. So how much is it
worth to you?

-- 
	John Cartmell	john@finnybank.com	0845 006 8822 or 0161 969 9820
	Qercus magazine	FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527		www.finnybank.com
	Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
                                                      

In article <f7ef77c64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>,
   dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
> > 
> Thanks Paul,That's the first positive letter I was looking for.An 
> element of hope and possible method. How does one send an email to 
> everyone,just like the spammers do?(tongue in cheek question)
> Dave.

You still wouldn't catch a large number of folks.
There are still a lot of people with a computer but not Net connected.

Perhaps a collection to finance a large Newspaper advert.

Dave S

-- 

In article <b0d479c64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>,
   dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
> In message <569iodF27shd1U1@mid.individual.net>
>           David Holden <black_hole@apdl.co.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> > 
> > You don't have a snowball's chance. You'd also have do divide it up
> > into people who regard RISC OS as a religion (a vociferous minority),
> > those who use RISC OS almost exclusively, those who use RISC OS and a
> > PC/Mac/Linux *some* of the time, and those who use RISC OS but a
> > PC/Mac/Linux *most* of the time. They all have wildly different
> > requirements and I can guarantee that the results of any sort of
> > 'poll' will be so distorted as to be worse than useless.
> > 
>   It would follow that if RISC OS was able to satisfy the needs of 
> users that also used PC/Mac etc. Then they would not need to use the 
> PC/Mac etc.
>   I seem to recall your name from years ago,do I recognise you as 
> having a good deal of experience in matters Acorn? Could I ask,Are 
> there programmers out there who could bring RISC OSs up to date and 
> would be prepared to do so if the money was there?
>  I'm not sure that I am saying what I mean, but you are prob: getting 
> the gist.

> Dave.

To say David Holden has a lot of experience in matters Acorn, is I think a
kind of an understatement...

As I remember from previous discussions of this subject, very large sums
of lolly would be required to finance a serious effort.

Unfortunately RO itself it only a part of the problem, the lack of a few
important bits of software are also killers, so substantial finance would
need to be put into that as well.

From my perspective, getting RO completely separated from the slow and
expensive hardware required to run it on at present, would be a number one
reworking priority if lots of lolly were available.

Dave S

-- 

In message of 19 Mar, dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:

> Hi. Let me get this one right first.
> I have a Mico and a Strongarm Risc PC. What, if different, is the 
> correct way of describing what I have to the user group?
> 
> Now:-
> 
> 1. How many users of Acorn machines are out there? I dont want to know 
> if you/they use PCs as well.
> 
> 2. I understand that RO ltd. and Castle are the main suppliers of 
> Acorn stuff. Any others,please enlighten.
> 
> 3. I feel that should the above suppliers (and others?) bury their 
> differences and join to form one company, the resultant combine would 
> be so much stronger and could only benefit the Acorn scene.
>  If, because of selfish aspirations they will not join together.This 
> can only mean the eventual demise of our beloved platform.
> 
> 4.It would seem to me that we,the users and purchasers,of Acorn 
> equipment and software,really do have the solution in our own hands. 
> By joining together into one voice and demanding that reality is 
> faced, or find that support, for those who show that they are not 
> really interested in the good of our platform, will cease.

You are, by the looks of things, talking of how to make an expanding
profitable enterprise that will be able to provide most things to most
people.

There are two key factors that you have not addressed, finance aka
capital and people aka entrepreneurs.

Capital can be obtained from the government, the lottery, banks, public
subscription, etc.  Who is going to provide the finance for whatever
enterprise someone is going to propose?

People are even more important.  You need a person or two around who can
raise the capital, motivate others and generally drive the business to
something different.  Who is going to fulfil this role?

And do you not think that one or two people have desperately been trying
to raise capital for all sorts of enterprises for quite some years?
There have been some minor successes, but not on the scale you are
envisaging.  If there was any smell of money being available, all
contributors to such as enterprise would soon have been mopped into the
one umbrella.


Meanwhile just watch Morgan cars.  It has a niche market, enthusiastic
customers and continues to survive.

I don't particularly like Morgans but I'm very happy with the RISC OS
scene.


-- 
Tim Powys-Lybbe������������������������������������������tim@powys.org
�������������For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

In article <191487c64e.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>,
   Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org> wrote:

[Snip]

> Meanwhile just watch Morgan cars.  It has a niche market, enthusiastic
> customers and continues to survive.

> I don't particularly like Morgans but I'm very happy with the RISC OS
> scene.

I love Morgans!  Distraught still at having to get rid of the one I had for
some 30 years - no time to do it up in the manner in needed.

However, The Morgan car company actually makes a profit, 9 years in 10
apparently.  I have a doubt that the RISCOS market does that.

The Morgan trick seems to be to supply vehicles that do the job in a modern
way whilst maintaining the desired olde worlde feel.  My 1957 Plus 4 4
Seater was a pretty spartan vehicle compared to the latest version - 2007
+4 has plush seats, even at the back!  Proper heater, even a radio!

This is where RO is lacking.  We have the vehicle(s) but the goodies that
are needed to cope with modern life from the punters POV are just not
there.  For goodies read software.

Cheers

Alan

-- 
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.

Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org> wrote:

> 
> Meanwhile just watch Morgan cars.  It has a niche market, enthusiastic
> customers and continues to survive.

But at least Morgan cars are compatible with other cars and can drive on
the same roads at the same speeds :-)

Cheers,

Ray D

Dave Symes <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote:

> 
> From my perspective, getting RO completely separated from the slow and
> expensive hardware required to run it on at present, would be a number
> one reworking priority if lots of lolly were available.
> 
Isn't that what Virtual Acorn does?

Cheers,

Ray D

In message <gemini.jf7hqz00e2uvl035o.ray@magray.freeserve.co.uk>
          Ray Dawson <ray@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> Dave Symes <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> From my perspective, getting RO completely separated from the slow and
>> expensive hardware required to run it on at present, would be a number
>> one reworking priority if lots of lolly were available.
>> 
> Isn't that what Virtual Acorn does?

Unfortunately it replaces it with a slow and expensive operating 
system plus cheap and fast hardware.

-- 
Jess                   Iyonix
contact http://jess.itworkshop-nexus.net
Hotmail is my spam trap - don't email
valid - mailto:nospam@jess.itworkshop-nexus.net

In message of 20 Mar, Ray Dawson <ray@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Meanwhile just watch Morgan cars.  It has a niche market, enthusiastic
> > customers and continues to survive.
> 
> But at least Morgan cars are compatible with other cars and can drive on
> the same roads at the same speeds :-)

Last time I was in one, I thought it was dreadful.  It certainly was not
compatible with me.

Horses for courses: same as RISC OS which I continue to like and is very
compatible with me.

-- 
Tim Powys-Lybbe������������������������������������������tim@powys.org
�������������For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

In article <gemini.jf7hqz00e2uvl035o.ray@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
   Ray Dawson <ray@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Dave Symes <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote:

> > 
> > From my perspective, getting RO completely separated from the slow and
> > expensive hardware required to run it on at present, would be a number
> > one reworking priority if lots of lolly were available.
> > 
> Isn't that what Virtual Acorn does?

> Cheers,

> Ray D

Kind of Ray, but it's still an emulation of a RPC, and I was thinking more
of running natively on the hardware.

That said, I do have two bought copies of VRPC installed on two PCs so
that's a bit of lolly back in this world.

Dave S

-- 

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:44:21 +0000, Dave Symes wrote:
 
> Kind of Ray, but it's still an emulation of a RPC, and I was thinking more
> of running natively on the hardware.

You could always say that Virtual Acorn is a "hypervisor" or picokernel
providing a HAL that is transparent to the OS and software ;-)

B.

On 20 Mar, dave wrote in message
  <b0d479c64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>:

> In message <569iodF27shd1U1@mid.individual.net>
>           David Holden <black_hole@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > You don't have a snowball's chance. You'd also have do divide it up
> > into people who regard RISC OS as a religion (a vociferous minority),
> > those who use RISC OS almost exclusively, those who use RISC OS and a
> > PC/Mac/Linux *some* of the time, and those who use RISC OS but a
> > PC/Mac/Linux *most* of the time. They all have wildly different
> > requirements and I can guarantee that the results of any sort of
> > 'poll' will be so distorted as to be worse than useless.
> 
> It would follow that if RISC OS was able to satisfy the needs of  users
> that also used PC/Mac etc. Then they would not need to use the  PC/Mac
> etc.

Indeed.  That time isn't going to come any time soon as far as I'm
concerned: there are many things that I need to do at home or at work that
RISC OS would take years to catch up on (even if the developers were there
to work on the software).

> I seem to recall your name from years ago,do I recognise you as  having
> a good deal of experience in matters Acorn? Could I ask,Are  there
> programmers out there who could bring RISC OSs up to date and  would be
> prepared to do so if the money was there?

There are some programmers around; most of them are already already fairly
involved.  Sure, money would bring some more back, but I suspect that it
would have to be pretty exceptional to bring a significant number over to
us given the state of RISC OS development tools compared to those on
other platforms.

-- 
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

In article <b447c4c64e.steve@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>,
   Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> Indeed.  That time isn't going to come any time soon as far as I'm
> concerned: there are many things that I need to do at home or at work
> that RISC OS would take years to catch up on (even if the developers were
> there to work on the software).

Don't forget that I have a list of "Applications wanted!" at
http://www.riscos.org/wanted/ and am always open to new suggestions of
things to add to the list.

-- 
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Dave Symes wrote:
> In article <f7ef77c64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>,
>    dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
>> Thanks Paul,That's the first positive letter I was looking for.An 
>> element of hope and possible method. How does one send an email to 
>> everyone,just like the spammers do?(tongue in cheek question)
>> Dave.
> 
> You still wouldn't catch a large number of folks.
> There are still a lot of people with a computer but not Net connected.
> 
> Perhaps a collection to finance a large Newspaper advert.
> 
> Dave S
> 
  The answer is TV guys! :@P surely enough of us watch it so the odd ad, 
might reach the odd few! > plug for castle / ROL

lol of course this will never happen!

In article <llNMh.27720$GI.8826@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>, Michael Emerton
<URL:mailto:MichaelREmerton@_deleteme_hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dave Symes wrote:
> > In article <f7ef77c64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>,
> >    dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
> >> Thanks Paul,That's the first positive letter I was looking for.An 
> >> element of hope and possible method. How does one send an email to 
> >> everyone,just like the spammers do?(tongue in cheek question)
> >> Dave.
> > 
> > You still wouldn't catch a large number of folks.
> > There are still a lot of people with a computer but not Net connected.
> > 
> > Perhaps a collection to finance a large Newspaper advert.
> > 
> > Dave S
> > 
>   The answer is TV guys! :@P surely enough of us watch it so the odd ad, 
> might reach the odd few! > plug for castle / ROL

Acorn did some TV advertising around the time of the A3010
We did some local Radio and even a Daily newspaper once.

None of it was cost effective:-(

Even mailshoting customers on our database that hadn't been in contact for a
year or so was a total waste of time and money!

How you cost effectively contact new markets or even those existing users
that don't use the newsgroups or drobe etc I don't know!
 
> lol of course this will never happen!
> 


Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

Chris Evans wrote:

> 
> Even mailshoting customers on our database that hadn't been in contact for a
> year or so was a total waste of time and money!
> 
> How you cost effectively contact new markets or even those existing users
> that don't use the newsgroups or drobe etc I don't know!

You produce new and interesting products that catch the publics/press 
imagine.
If you can do that well...........

Cheers

In message <XiQMh.42417$MR6.19992@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
          Duncan MacCallum <dmacca@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> Chris Evans wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Even mailshoting customers on our database that hadn't been in contact for a
>> year or so was a total waste of time and money!
>> 
>> How you cost effectively contact new markets or even those existing users
>> that don't use the newsgroups or drobe etc I don't know!
> 
> You produce new and interesting products that catch the publics/press
> imagine.
> If you can do that well...........
> 
> Cheers

A salesman said,when I asked him what made a good selling 
product."Show them something good,let them hold it / use it,and then 
take it away from them.Then they will want it more".

Dave.

In message <d89d23c84e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>
          dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:

> In message <XiQMh.42417$MR6.19992@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
>           Duncan MacCallum <dmacca@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> > 
> > You produce new and interesting products that catch the publics/press
> > imagine.
> > If you can do that well...........
> > 
> > Cheers
> 
> A salesman said,when I asked him what made a good selling 
> product."Show them something good,let them hold it / use it,and then 
> take it away from them.Then they will want it more".
Sounds a bit like what ROL are trying to do with whatever they call
Select these days.....
Stan

-- 
http://mistymornings.net 

On 24 Mar 2007 News poster <mistymornings@casema.nl> wrote:
> In message <d89d23c84e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>
>           dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
> > A salesman said,when I asked him what made a good selling 
> > product."Show them something good,let them hold it / use it,and then 
> > take it away from them.Then they will want it more".
> Sounds a bit like what ROL are trying to do with whatever they call
> Select these days.....

No, with ROL its:-

* Develiver RISC OS 4 - good
* Run Select scheme for a few years 
* Everyone happy up to this point
* Take money for 3 years delivering nothing
* Promise new features
* Deliver a 'preview' with a pointless version bump
  and less features than normal
* Ask people for yet more money
* Wait indefinately

---druck

-- 
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/

In message <ant2312500b0pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>
          Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:

>>   The answer is TV guys! :@P surely enough of us watch it so the odd ad,
>> might reach the odd few! > plug for castle / ROL
> 
> Acorn did some TV advertising around the time of the A3010
> We did some local Radio and even a Daily newspaper once.
> 
> None of it was cost effective:-(

This kind of advertising will never be effective special pointed 
computers. It's a waste of money and time. People doesn't realise 
this.

You have to work over relations. Better to have a report on pages over 
the things. The publishing house (at last the customers of course) *must
pay you*. *You* must be wanted from the publishers.

Remember... it was happen more times.

Why not writing professional but simple-to-understand-books about the
basics of Internet, useful for all *computer system*, but with a lot of
hints to RISC OS? Why not writing a "computer encyclopaedia", useful for
everyone, but also with hints to RISC OS, Acorn, C64, CPC,  Solaris etc.
There is a lot and people don't know it! Found a circle and look for a
publishing house... or is there something - like this - still out
around us? Then you must see to get notice from this points!

There are lot of books out in the world. Good books are rare, though.
Education, fine ideas and good marketing is all.

Alex'

-- 
To reply by mail, replace "noreply" by "bavariasound"
A7000+ with RISCO OS 4.39        Venusberg / Upper Bavaria
                             (Probably home of Tannh�user)

In article <963e82c94e.noreply@chiemgau-net.de>, Alex' Interrants
<noreply@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
> In message <ant2312500b0pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk> Chris Evans
>           <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:

> >>   The answer is TV guys! :@P surely enough of us watch it so the odd
> >> ad, might reach the odd few! > plug for castle / ROL
> > 
> > Acorn did some TV advertising around the time of the A3010 We did
> > some local Radio and even a Daily newspaper once.
> > 
> > None of it was cost effective:-(

> This kind of advertising will never be effective special pointed
> computers. It's a waste of money and time. People doesn't realise this.

[snip]

Advertising which works is advertising which works and what can be
surprising is the one that finally reminds someone to buy something
specific. It could be on the side of a bus.

The RISC OS vendors, of one sort or another are dealing with four
possible scenarios:

1. selling familiar products to existing customers
2. selling new products to existing customers
3. selling familiar products to new customers, and
4. selling new products to new customers

It is generally accepted in Marketing-101 that 'one' is much easier to do
than 'four' but if all you do is 'one' (and maybe 'two'), where do your
new customers come from? They are essential if a business is to grow.

Answers on a postcard via Tardis to Cherry Hinton, Cambridge. Please.

-- 
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* Want a genuine but spam-proof Usenet address? Visit www.invalid.org.uk 
  or email me:  postmaster at invalid dot org dot uk
* (tim@invalid.org.uk is deleted unread - please use my valid address above)

.... "Women may fall when there's no strength in men" Rom & Jul, Act ii, Sc.3

In message <d89d23c84e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>
          dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:


> A salesman said,when I asked him what made a good selling
> product."Show them something good,let them hold it / use it,and then
> take it away from them.Then they will want it more".
Technically called 'puppydogging'

Slainte

Liz

-- 
http://www.v-liz.com -  Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Galapagos
Photo Gallery:
http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/gallery.asp?memberID=165111

In message <569iodF27shd1U1@mid.individual.net>
          David Holden <black_hole@apdl.co.uk> wrote:

> 
> On 19-Mar-2007, dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
> 
>> Ok. Acorn and / or RISC OS machines.
> 
> In that case if youre serious you'd have to include people using Virtual
> Acorn on a PC. Especially as they now probably comprise one of the larger
> groups of RISC OS users.
>>
>> I'm trying to get a flavour of just how many, worldwide, people there
>> could be. The more there are the more influence there could be to get
>> what we want / need.
> 
> You don't have a snowball's chance. You'd also have do divide it up into
> people who regard RISC OS as a religion (a vociferous minority), those who
> use RISC OS almost exclusively, those who use RISC OS and a PC/Mac/Linux
> *some* of the time, and those who use RISC OS but a PC/Mac/Linux *most* of
> the time. They all have wildly different requirements and I can guarantee
> that the results of any sort of 'poll' will be so distorted as to be worse
> than useless.
> 
And not everyone in that group would be interested enough to/able to 
pay �5 per month.

Slainte

Liz

-- 
http://www.v-liz.com -  Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Galapagos
Photo Gallery:
http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/gallery.asp?memberID=165111

In message <b447c4c64e.steve@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>
          Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> On 20 Mar, dave wrote in message
>   <b0d479c64e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>:
> 

>> 
>> It would follow that if RISC OS was able to satisfy the needs of  users
>> that also used PC/Mac etc. Then they would not need to use the  PC/Mac
>> etc.
> 
> Indeed.  That time isn't going to come any time soon as far as I'm
> concerned: there are many things that I need to do at home or at work that
> RISC OS would take years to catch up on (even if the developers were there
> to work on the software).

That's as I see it.
Everyone has different needs, and your putative �0.5Mpa wouldn't go 
very far in meeting those needs.

Slainte

Liz
-- 
http://www.v-liz.com -  Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Galapagos
Photo Gallery:
http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/gallery.asp?memberID=165111

Liz Leyden <liz@liz13.uklinux.net> wrote:

> In message <d89d23c84e.daveandsylvia@daveandsylvia.plus.com>
>           dave <dave@daveandsylvia.plus.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > A salesman said,when I asked him what made a good selling
> > product."Show them something good,let them hold it / use it,and then
> > take it away from them.Then they will want it more".

> Technically called 'puppydogging'

Isn't that what a well known politician got caught doing?

Cheers,

Ray D