f



Make an app 'unseen'

Is there any way for an app that's been seen by the Filer to be made unseen
again? In other words can you force its !Boot file to be run every time the
parent directory is opened?

Alan
0
Alan
5/4/2014 9:39:56 PM
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On 04/05/2014 22:39, Alan Wrigley wrote:
> Is there any way for an app that's been seen by the Filer to be made unseen
> again? In other words can you force its !Boot file to be run every time the
> parent directory is opened?

In a word; no. You need to explicitly double click or Filer_Run the 
!Boot file.

You could achieve something by having !Boot run a program and then look 
for the filer opening that directory again.

But running stuff every time a directory is opened sounds more like a 
nasty than a useful feature.

---druck

0
druck
5/5/2014 8:05:51 AM
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> But running stuff every time a directory is opened sounds more like a 
> nasty than a useful feature.

I have a directory whose contents are managed by an application and if users
mess with the contents it will screw up the app's functionality. So I want
to put a dummy app into the directory with a !Boot file that puts up a
warning error whenever it's accessed.

It's acceptable for this to happen just once but I would have preferred it
to happen every time.

Alan


-- 
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
0
Alan
5/5/2014 8:51:24 AM
Alan Wrigley wrote:
> druck  wrote:
>
>> But running stuff every time a directory is opened sounds more like a
>> nasty than a useful feature.
>
> I have a directory whose contents are managed by an application and if users
> mess with the contents it will screw up the app's functionality. So I want
> to put a dummy app into the directory with a !Boot file that puts up a
> warning error whenever it's accessed.
>
> It's acceptable for this to happen just once but I would have preferred it
> to happen every time.

You could make the directory you are concerned about an application 
directory. Then include a !Run Obey file that does:

  Filer_OpenDir <Obey$Dir>
  Error Warning

0
Steve
5/5/2014 9:01:36 AM
In message <VsI9v.189812$N05.26067@fx12.am4>
          Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> wrote:

> Alan Wrigley wrote:
>> druck  wrote:
>>
>>> But running stuff every time a directory is opened sounds more like a
>>> nasty than a useful feature.
>>
>> I have a directory whose contents are managed by an application and if users
>> mess with the contents it will screw up the app's functionality. So I want
>> to put a dummy app into the directory with a !Boot file that puts up a
>> warning error whenever it's accessed.
>>
>> It's acceptable for this to happen just once but I would have preferred it
>> to happen every time.

> You could make the directory you are concerned about an application
> directory. Then include a !Run Obey file that does:

>   Filer_OpenDir <Obey$Dir>
>   Error Warning

That's neat. I was thinking along the lines of the application 
checksums the directory contents, say every minute, and puts up a 
warning if an unexpected change occurs.


-- 
Alan Adams, from Northamptonshire
alan@adamshome.org.uk
http://www.nckc.org.uk/
0
Alan
5/5/2014 9:55:25 AM
Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> wrote:

> You could make the directory you are concerned about an application 
> directory. Then include a !Run Obey file that does:
> 
>   Filer_OpenDir <Obey$Dir>
>   Error Warning

I had thought of that, but then the user might Shift-double-click the app
directory and not see the warning.

Alan

-- 
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
0
Alan
5/5/2014 10:02:50 AM
Alan Wrigley wrote:
> Steve Drain> wrote:
>
>> You could make the directory you are concerned about an application
>> directory. Then include a !Run Obey file that does:
>>
>>    Filer_OpenDir <Obey$Dir>
>>    Error Warning
>
> I had thought of that, but then the user might Shift-double-click the app
> directory and not see the warning.

You will have some problem preventing the persistent user getting around 
whatever warnings you try to give. ;-)

How about a full resource directory, an extension of the above. The 
application directory has a sub-directory called 'OpenAtYourPeril' and 
the !Run file has:

  Filer_OpenDir <Obey$Dir>.OpenAtYourPeril

Perhaps you just need to make the files in the directory read-only after 
your application has changed them.

0
Steve
5/5/2014 11:01:33 AM
On 05/05/2014 09:51, Alan Wrigley wrote:
> druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> But running stuff every time a directory is opened sounds more like a
>> nasty than a useful feature.
>
> I have a directory whose contents are managed by an application and if users
> mess with the contents it will screw up the app's functionality. So I want
> to put a dummy app into the directory with a !Boot file that puts up a
> warning error whenever it's accessed.

As Steve mentioned making the the directory itself an application 
directory would be a neater solution. It would then run something when 
double clicked, and most people know if they have to shift click to get 
in, its not advisable to bugger about in there.

But as ever its good to make your application resilient to everything 
that might be thrown at it, such as missing, additional or corrupted 
files in a data directory, as at some point it will happen accidentally 
if not deliberately.

---druck
0
druck
5/5/2014 11:04:38 AM
Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> wrote:

> Alan Wrigley wrote:
> > Steve Drain> wrote:
> >
> >> You could make the directory you are concerned about an application
> >> directory. Then include a !Run Obey file that does:
> >>
> >>    Filer_OpenDir <Obey$Dir>
> >>    Error Warning
> >
> > I had thought of that, but then the user might Shift-double-click the
app
> > directory and not see the warning.
> 
> You will have some problem preventing the persistent user getting around 
> whatever warnings you try to give. ;-)

Indeed, that's why I wanted to run the !Boot file every time. It gives me
the option of including a Filer_CloseDir if I want to be really severe.

> Perhaps you just need to make the files in the directory read-only after 
> your application has changed them.

That might indeed be a good precaution, and possibly the best option. I've
no objection to users seeing the files, I just don't want to see "this
application doesn't work properly" plastered all over the forums if they
mess with anything.

Alan

-- 
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
0
Alan
5/5/2014 11:10:26 AM
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> But as ever its good to make your application resilient to everything 
> that might be thrown at it, such as missing, additional or corrupted 
> files in a data directory, as at some point it will happen accidentally 
> if not deliberately.

I would of course normally do that anyway, but in this case it would require
the app to re-enumerate everything that's in the directory and its
sub-directories every time it was run. I don't want to have to do that, but
at least if I can issue a warning then it's a case of Caveat Utor.

Alan

-- 
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
0
Alan
5/5/2014 11:19:48 AM
Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:

> I would of course normally do that anyway, but in this case it would
> require the app to re-enumerate everything that's in the directory and its
> sub-directories ...

Uisng the dummy app approach you'd have needed to put one in every
subdirectory too, which is hardly an attractive option.

Is there any mileage in using a FS app like raFS to store the files that
should not be touched?

-- 
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsreplyaaa@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".  
0
Jeremy
5/5/2014 11:57:55 AM
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:

> Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > I would of course normally do that anyway, but in this case it would
> > require the app to re-enumerate everything that's in the directory and
its
> > sub-directories ...
> 
> Uisng the dummy app approach you'd have needed to put one in every
> subdirectory too, which is hardly an attractive option.

Not if I put a Filer_CloseDir in the Obey file!

Alan

-- 
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
0
Alan
5/5/2014 12:10:00 PM
Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:

> I would of course normally do that anyway, but in this case it would
> require the app to re-enumerate everything that's in the directory and its
> sub-directories every time it was run.

How about keeping each set of files in a password-protected zero-compression
zip?

-- 
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsreplyaaa@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".  
0
Jeremy
5/5/2014 12:28:03 PM
Jeremy Nicoll
> Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I would of course normally do that anyway, but in this case it would
>> require the app to re-enumerate everything that's in the directory and its
>> sub-directories every time it was run.
>
> How about keeping each set of files in a password-protected zero-compression
> zip?

That occurred to me, too. A couple of other ideas have popped up:

If the files are appropriate, they might be kept in Choices, where they 
should not be casually accessed.

The ultimate read-only filer is ResourcesFS, but you would have to put 
the files in a module.

0
Steve
5/5/2014 1:00:17 PM
On 05/05/2014 12:57, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
> Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I would of course normally do that anyway, but in this case it would
>> require the app to re-enumerate everything that's in the directory and its
>> sub-directories ...
>
> Uisng the dummy app approach you'd have needed to put one in every
> subdirectory too, which is hardly an attractive option.

I don't see why; if anyone ignores the top level, they aren't going to 
take notice of any further warnings.

> Is there any mileage in using a FS app like raFS to store the files that
> should not be touched?

That wouldn't appear to be any different if raFS is available. What you 
could do is implement your own image filing system, but not register any 
file type, so the user can't double click on it, but the application can 
feed the untyped file to the image filing system module - but I think 
that is enormous overkill for this sort of problem.

---druck

0
druck
5/5/2014 3:20:55 PM
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

>> Is there any mileage in using a FS app like raFS to store the files that
>> should not be touched?
>
>That wouldn't appear to be any different if raFS is available. What you 
>could do is implement your own image filing system

.... that's what I meant, sorry to be unclear

> but I think that is enormous overkill for this sort of problem.

Yes, but - not knowing what the app Alan's writing is, it's unclear why it
needs any more protection of its files than any other one.

-- 
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsreplyaaa@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".  
0
Jeremy
5/5/2014 3:48:54 PM
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:

> Yes, but - not knowing what the app Alan's writing is, it's unclear why it
> needs any more protection of its files than any other one.

As it's a commercial app and I've only just started work on it I can't
really be very specific just yet. But I've read all the comments with
interest. I didn't expect it would be possible to do what I really wanted
(repeated running of the !Boot) but I asked just in case.

I don't think any kind of archive system would be suitable because I expect
the possibility that there could be a significant number of files stored and
the contents of the directory could be changing regularly.
Adding/removing/editing files in an archive can get to be extremely slow if
the archive is large.

I like Steve Drain's suggestion of locking the files. Together with a !Boot
file in a dummy app that gives an explicit warning the first time it's seen,
that should be enough to ensure that anyone who DOES mess with the files
knows the consequences.

Alan

-- 
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
0
Alan
5/5/2014 4:21:23 PM
Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:

> Adding/removing/editing files in an archive can get to be extremely slow
> if the archive is large.

One reason for suggesting one with no compression is that - hopefully -
there'd be less overhead from that point of view.   You might be able to
work around some problems by numbering the files going into an archive (ie
not storing them by their original names), not actually deleting the old
files each time one changed, and only - at say end of day, purging the
no-longer needed ones.

-- 
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsreplyaaa@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".  
0
Jeremy
5/5/2014 4:44:31 PM
In article <gemini.n52k6i00spxjy01d0.alan@alanwrigley.com>,
   Alan Wrigley <alan@alanwrigley.com> wrote:
> Is there any way for an app that's been seen by the Filer to be made
> unseen again? In other words can you force its !Boot file to be run
> every time the parent directory is opened?

I did this once by the rather dirty method of having a dummy application
called !000000001 inside a folder and the !Boot file popped up a warning
message, then renamed the application to !0000000002 and closed the
folder so that the !Boot would be seen again next time. Not pretty, but
it worked!

Andrew

-- 
+----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Andrew Conroy, Owl-Art Un-Ltd.         | email: a.m.conroy@argonet.co.uk |
| Coming to you on an Acorn RiscPC SA110 |                                 |
+----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
      The impossible I can do at once, miracles take a little longer!!
0
Andrew
5/5/2014 9:01:12 PM
Andrew Conroy <a.m.conroy@owlart.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <gemini.n52k6i00spxjy01d0.alan@alanwrigley.com>,
>    Alan Wrigley <alan@alanwrigley.com> wrote:
> > Is there any way for an app that's been seen by the Filer to be made
> > unseen again? In other words can you force its !Boot file to be run
> > every time the parent directory is opened?
> 
> I did this once by the rather dirty method of having a dummy application
> called !000000001 inside a folder and the !Boot file popped up a warning
> message, then renamed the application to !0000000002 and closed the
> folder so that the !Boot would be seen again next time. Not pretty, but
> it worked!

Eeek! That DOES sound dirty!

Alan

-- 
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
0
Alan
5/5/2014 9:06:56 PM
In article
<gemini.n54dbj00sug7601e0.spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
   Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> Andrew Conroy <a.m.conroy@owlart.co.uk> wrote:

> > In article <gemini.n52k6i00spxjy01d0.alan@alanwrigley.com>,
> >    Alan Wrigley <alan@alanwrigley.com> wrote:
> > > Is there any way for an app that's been seen by the Filer to be made
> > > unseen again? In other words can you force its !Boot file to be run
> > > every time the parent directory is opened?
> > 
> > I did this once by the rather dirty method of having a dummy
> > application called !000000001 inside a folder and the !Boot file
> > popped up a warning message, then renamed the application to
> > !0000000002 and closed the folder so that the !Boot would be seen
> > again next time. Not pretty, but it worked!

> Eeek! That DOES sound dirty!

Yes! But, like you, I couldn't find any way to make an App be 'unseen' by
the filer either. I assume that there's a master list held by the OS
somewhere regarding what application names it has/hasn't 'seen'?

Andrew

-- 
+----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Andrew Conroy, Owl-Art Un-Ltd.         | email: a.m.conroy@argonet.co.uk |
| Coming to you on an Acorn RiscPC SA110 |                                 |
+----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
      The impossible I can do at once, miracles take a little longer!!
0
Andrew
5/5/2014 9:21:38 PM
Andrew Conroy <a.m.conroy@owlart.co.uk> wrote:

> I assume that there's a master list held by the OS somewhere regarding
> what application names it has/hasn't 'seen'?

I've a feeling I've read that it's a side effect of the iconsprites command
that's more or less by-definition run by each booting application.  But I
wonder if that's true - a dummy/conatiner app wouldpresumably work perfectly
from a boot/run point of view even if it had no self-named sprite and thus
no iconsprites command.

Or maybe it's completely wrong and I've just recounted a myth.

-- 
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsreplyaaa@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".  
0
Jeremy
5/5/2014 10:33:40 PM
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:

> Andrew Conroy <a.m.conroy@owlart.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > I assume that there's a master list held by the OS somewhere regarding
> > what application names it has/hasn't 'seen'?
> 
> I've a feeling I've read that it's a side effect of the iconsprites
command
> that's more or less by-definition run by each booting application.  But I
> wonder if that's true - a dummy/conatiner app wouldpresumably work
perfectly
> from a boot/run point of view even if it had no self-named sprite and thus
> no iconsprites command.

I think that used to be true once but not in recent OS versions.

Alan

-- 
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
0
Alan
5/6/2014 8:08:38 AM
Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:

>I think that used to be true once but not in recent OS versions.

If someone was going to the bother of changing the mechanism you'd think
they might introduce a SWI to add items to, and remove items from, the list
of booted apps.  

Why might you want to add one via a SWI?  Maybe one could protect an app
from being booted if/when a user stumbles across it, until some other
processes had been completed, by adding it to the list without actually
booting it first!

-- 
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsreplyaaa@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".  
0
Jeremy
5/6/2014 9:42:51 AM
Alan Wrigley wrote:
> Steve Drain wrote:
>> Perhaps you just need to make the files in the directory read-only after
>> your application has changed them.
>
> That might indeed be a good precaution, and possibly the best option. I've
> no objection to users seeing the files, I just don't want to see "this
> application doesn't work properly" plastered all over the forums if they
> mess with anything.

OK. My last suggestion. In addition to the above, put a file in the 
directory with a long BOLD name, say !!WARNING!!. Set its type to &000 
and time stamp it far in the future and it should appear at the top.


0
Steve
5/6/2014 11:41:14 AM
In article <XU3av.228489$Qm2.194291@fx16.am4>,
   Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> wrote:
> Set its type to &000 
> and time stamp it far in the future and it should appear at the top.

reverse date sort :)

-- 

Steve Pampling
0
spampling
5/6/2014 4:42:57 PM
spampling wrote:
> Steve Drain  wrote:
>> Set its type to &000
>> and time stamp it far in the future and it should appear at the top.
>
> reverse date sort :)

Caught me there. Reverse sort of any in RO5. No reverse in RO4.9. Have 
not checked RO6. ;-)


0
Steve
5/6/2014 5:08:08 PM
spampling  wrote on 6 May:

> In article <XU3av.228489$Qm2.194291@fx16.am4>,
>    Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> wrote:
>> Set its type to &000
>> and time stamp it far in the future and it should appear at the top.

> reverse date sort :)

A second WARNING file with date set far in the past!



-- 
Jim Nagel                        www.archivemag.co.uk
>> "from" address is genuine but will change.  website has current one.
0
Jim
5/9/2014 12:10:52 PM
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Hi I'm trying to compile an ADC Driver & come acrosss the following error. I've no experience writing drivers before, and hence have no clue how to fix it. Hope someone out there has encountered the problem & suggesst a fix for the same. The Error is I get is : qadc.c: At top level: qadc.c:97: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'qadc_read' make: *** [qadc.o] Error 1 [root@localhost qadc]# ########################################################################### ADC Driver Code ##...

(Bash completion) 'cd' and 'make'
'cd' and 'make' are the only 2 commands that I really appreciate and completion. For newbies, here are relevant section from my ~/.profile: First, 'cd' is redefined to use 'pushd' to build the directory stack (ie. popd, pushd, dirs). <C-t> is bound to 'popd', so that you can jump back to previous directories. If no match is found from directory stack, then filesystem directories will be tried. cd() { pushd "${1:-$HOME}" } bind -m vi-insert -x '"\C-t": popd' _cd () { local cur=${COMP_WORDS...

Difference between 'is' and '=='
Hey guys, this maybe a stupid question, but I can't seem to find the result anywhere online. When is the right time to use 'is' and when should we use '=='? Thanks alot~ mwql: >Hey guys, this maybe a stupid question, but I can't seem to find the >result anywhere online. When is the right time to use 'is' and when >should we use '=='? http://docs.python.org/ref/comparisons.html -- Ren´┐Ż Pijlman mwql wrote: > Hey guys, this maybe a stupid question, but I can't seem to find the > result anywhere online. When is the right time to ...

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