f



read adfs under linux

Hi,

It's many years since I've had a working RISC OS machine. Inow find a 
need to re-visit some of my old work, stored on ADFS floppies. Can 
anyone here advise me whether any linux utility exists for reading such 
discs?

Cheers, Tony
0
Tony
11/21/2015 5:58:55 PM
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In message <dbbpn0Ftea7U1@mid.individual.net>
 on 21 Nov 2015 Tony van der Hoff  wrote:
 
> It's many years since I've had a working RISC OS machine. Inow find a 
> need to re-visit some of my old work, stored on ADFS floppies. Can 
> anyone here advise me whether any linux utility exists for reading such 
> discs?

I've not tried this recently, but certainly in 1997 you could just use "mount
-t adfs" together with the drive and the mount point parameters (I forget the
syntax) and you would get a read-only access to the disc.  It may still be
supported in Linux, though whether it copes with RISC OS 4 long file names
and more than 77 files per directory I couldn't say.

-- 
Matthew Phillips
Durham
0
Matthew
11/22/2015 8:46:26 AM
Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <dbbpn0Ftea7U1@mid.individual.net>
>  on 21 Nov 2015 Tony van der Hoff  wrote:
>  
> > It's many years since I've had a working RISC OS machine. Inow find a 
> > need to re-visit some of my old work, stored on ADFS floppies. Can 
> > anyone here advise me whether any linux utility exists for reading such 
> > discs?
> 
> I've not tried this recently, but certainly in 1997 you could just use "mount
> -t adfs" together with the drive and the mount point parameters (I forget the
> syntax) and you would get a read-only access to the disc.  It may still be
> supported in Linux, though whether it copes with RISC OS 4 long file names
> and more than 77 files per directory I couldn't say.

mount -t adfs -o ftsuffix=1
will preserve filetype information as ,abc suffices.  Requires Linux 3.x

Floppies are a bit more complicated - you need to get the right
/dev/fd0H1600 or whatever the node is to tell it the right
density/tracks/sector organisation.  ARM Linux kernels (at least) use to
have the right setup for ADFS discs - not sure what needs to be done there. 
It's quite possible Linux floppy support doesn't work any more because
nobody has tested it, and modern floppy controllers are pretty broken
anyway.

libdsk may be an alternative for getting a disc image.

adfs.ko supports the RISC OS 4 long filename format (F+) for reading, and
there's an experimental writing mode.  Writing mode supports the
10-character filename format (E or F) but not any writing to F+ that
involves changing file lengths (it doesn't know how to operate the F+ free
pool, so can't claim or free blocks) - so it can't create or delete files.

I don't think adfs.ko will support old-format (D) floppies.  When I did this
I discovered some floppies I had were D formatted and I hadn't noticed.

If you can get a disc image, RPCEmu is an alternative way of reading it and
copying the files off.

Theo
0
Theo
11/22/2015 6:14:39 PM
On Sunday, November 22, 2015 at 6:14:41 PM UTC, Theo Markettos wrote:
> Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <dbbpn0Ftea7U1@mid.individual.net>
> >  on 21 Nov 2015 Tony van der Hoff  wrote:
> > =20
> > > It's many years since I've had a working RISC OS machine. Inow find a=
=20
> > > need to re-visit some of my old work, stored on ADFS floppies. Can=20
> > > anyone here advise me whether any linux utility exists for reading su=
ch=20
> > > discs?
> >=20
> > I've not tried this recently, but certainly in 1997 you could just use =
"mount
> > -t adfs" together with the drive and the mount point parameters (I forg=
et the
> > syntax) and you would get a read-only access to the disc.  It may still=
 be
> > supported in Linux, though whether it copes with RISC OS 4 long file na=
mes
> > and more than 77 files per directory I couldn't say.
>=20
> mount -t adfs -o ftsuffix=3D1
> will preserve filetype information as ,abc suffices.  Requires Linux 3.x
>=20
> Floppies are a bit more complicated - you need to get the right
> /dev/fd0H1600 or whatever the node is to tell it the right
> density/tracks/sector organisation.  ARM Linux kernels (at least) use to
> have the right setup for ADFS discs - not sure what needs to be done ther=
e.=20
> It's quite possible Linux floppy support doesn't work any more because
> nobody has tested it, and modern floppy controllers are pretty broken
> anyway.
>=20

Theo,
Is ADFS floppy access under Linux likely to be easier on a RiscPC than on o=
ther hardware - it at least has the right controller!  But kernal version o=
nly 2.6 so perhaps less useful given the loss of filetype information.

Tony,
I would be happy to assist, subject to logistics, if only as some post fact=
o justification for the hours spent installing/upgrading to Debian 4.0!  At=
 the least I could trying making disk images for you, to mount on a modern =
system as loop devices with the ftsuffix=3D1 flag or under RPCEmu, if you g=
et stuck at that point.

Andrew
0
ajw99uk
12/8/2015 12:16:28 PM
On 08/12/15 12:16, ajw99uk@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On Sunday, November 22, 2015 at 6:14:41 PM UTC, Theo Markettos wrote:
>> Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <dbbpn0Ftea7U1@mid.individual.net>
>>>   on 21 Nov 2015 Tony van der Hoff  wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's many years since I've had a working RISC OS machine. Inow find a
>>>> need to re-visit some of my old work, stored on ADFS floppies. Can
>>>> anyone here advise me whether any linux utility exists for reading such
>>>> discs?
>>>
>>> I've not tried this recently, but certainly in 1997 you could just use "mount
>>> -t adfs" together with the drive and the mount point parameters (I forget the
>>> syntax) and you would get a read-only access to the disc.  It may still be
>>> supported in Linux, though whether it copes with RISC OS 4 long file names
>>> and more than 77 files per directory I couldn't say.
>>
>> mount -t adfs -o ftsuffix=1
>> will preserve filetype information as ,abc suffices.  Requires Linux 3.x
>>
>> Floppies are a bit more complicated - you need to get the right
>> /dev/fd0H1600 or whatever the node is to tell it the right
>> density/tracks/sector organisation.  ARM Linux kernels (at least) use to
>> have the right setup for ADFS discs - not sure what needs to be done there.
>> It's quite possible Linux floppy support doesn't work any more because
>> nobody has tested it, and modern floppy controllers are pretty broken
>> anyway.
>>
>
> Theo,
> Is ADFS floppy access under Linux likely to be easier on a RiscPC than on other hardware - it at least has the right controller!  But kernal version only 2.6 so perhaps less useful given the loss of filetype information.
>
> Tony,
> I would be happy to assist, subject to logistics, if only as some post facto justification for the hours spent installing/upgrading to Debian 4.0!  At the least I could trying making disk images for you, to mount on a modern system as loop devices with the ftsuffix=1 flag or under RPCEmu, if you get stuck at that point.

I realise that I haven't thankes Matthew and Theo for their 
contributions. Please be thanked hereby; and thanks also to Andrew.

The immediate need for this has gone away; possibly only temporarily, so 
I'm keeping all your responses on file for now. To do this, my first 
step would be to buy a USB floppy, as my current box has none. Then set 
up a driver in Debian Jessie. I understand that this may be 
problematical, as Debian might have abandoned support for floppies.

Incidentally, Andrew, if you've really recently installed Debian 4.0, 
you're seriously out of date; and it doesn't contain Linux 3. Current 
stable is Jessie; Debian 8!

Cheers, all, Tony

0
Tony
12/8/2015 12:36:36 PM
On 08/12/2015 12:36, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> On 08/12/15 12:16, ajw99uk@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 22, 2015 at 6:14:41 PM UTC, Theo Markettos wrote:
>>> Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <dbbpn0Ftea7U1@mid.individual.net>
>>>>   on 21 Nov 2015 Tony van der Hoff  wrote:

As a general point, does the re-write of ADFS in C for the Titanium 
board help Linux at all?  I realise the license terms may be problematic 
as presumably it's under the Castle shared source license.

0
Someone
12/8/2015 1:31:13 PM
Someone Somewhere <nntpac@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 08/12/2015 12:36, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> > On 08/12/15 12:16, ajw99uk@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> >> On Sunday, November 22, 2015 at 6:14:41 PM UTC, Theo Markettos wrote:
> >>> Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>> In message <dbbpn0Ftea7U1@mid.individual.net>
> >>>>   on 21 Nov 2015 Tony van der Hoff  wrote:

Please note that USB floppies won't work - they aren't flexible enough to
read RISC OS formatting.  You need a machine with a real motherboard floppy
port (though PCI cards may suffice).  Single density discs often don't work
on modern controllers, but that's only a problem for reading BBC discs.

A Risc PC will have a suitable floppy controller, but as mentioned Linux for
it is a bit long in the tooth.  That's not necessarily a bad thing - the
floppy support might still work in older versions.

If you're building from source anyway, backporting the ftsuffix change from
2.6.39 to an older adfs.ko module might be the simplest thing - it's not
like much has changed to the module over the past 15 years.

> As a general point, does the re-write of ADFS in C for the Titanium 
> board help Linux at all?  I realise the license terms may be problematic 
> as presumably it's under the Castle shared source license.

I don't know, since I'm not sure the source has been checked into the CVS
repo, however ADFS only deals with writing blocks to hard drives and
floppies: it's FileCore that does the hard work of turning blocks into files. 
ADFS for hard drives is a fairly simple block devices.  Floppy support is
maybe 60-70% of ADFS - my guess is this bit hasn't been rewritten because it
sounds like a lot of work for not much gain these days.

Theo
0
Theo
12/8/2015 5:20:27 PM
On 08/12/2015 12:36, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> The immediate need for this has gone away; possibly only temporarily, so
> I'm keeping all your responses on file for now. To do this, my first
> step would be to buy a USB floppy, as my current box has none. Then set
> up a driver in Debian Jessie. I understand that this may be
> problematical, as Debian might have abandoned support for floppies.

USB floppies wont read ADFS discs, you need ye olde motherboard 
connected version.

---druck

0
druck
12/8/2015 5:47:37 PM
On 08/12/15 17:47, druck wrote:
> USB floppies wont read ADFS discs, you need ye olde motherboard
> connected version.
>
Thanks, Druck, and Theo, for this wisdom; just as well I haven't bought 
one yet!
0
Tony
12/8/2015 6:07:19 PM
On 08/12/15 18:07, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> On 08/12/15 17:47, druck wrote:
>> USB floppies wont read ADFS discs, you need ye olde motherboard
>> connected version.
>>
> Thanks, Druck, and Theo, for this wisdom; just as well I haven't bought
> one yet!

Can a SATA floppy read ADFS?
0
Tony
12/8/2015 6:16:34 PM
Tony van der Hoff <tony@vanderhoff.org> wrote:
> On 08/12/15 18:07, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> > On 08/12/15 17:47, druck wrote:
> >> USB floppies wont read ADFS discs, you need ye olde motherboard
> >> connected version.
> >>
> > Thanks, Druck, and Theo, for this wisdom; just as well I haven't bought
> > one yet!
> 
> Can a SATA floppy read ADFS?

A SATA floppy?  Do such things exist?

(if they do, the answer is most likely 'nobody has written software for
them' even if it would be feasible)

There are 'retro' USB floppy controllers that can read all kinds of discs
(Amiga are usually the trickiest, so Amiga support usually means it can do
anything).  Kryoflux is one that I think supports ADFS formats.  The BBC
Micro preservationists (eg on stardot, bbc-micro list) are probably better
experienced in this than I.  Such controllers are, shall we say, not quite
cheap.

Theo
0
Theo
12/8/2015 6:40:11 PM
In article <-kg*wrCMv@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
   Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Someone Somewhere <nntpac@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As a general point, does the re-write of ADFS in C for the Titanium 
> > board help Linux at all? 
>
> ADFS only deals with writing blocks to hard drives and
> floppies: it's FileCore that does the hard work of turning blocks into 
> files. 
> ADFS for hard drives is a fairly simple block devices.  Floppy support is
> maybe 60-70% of ADFS - my guess is this bit hasn't been rewritten because it
> sounds like a lot of work for not much gain these days.

It's worth mentioning that ADFS was always a bit of an odd-one-out in that it
contained both the block filing system and the low level drivers. 

Compare that with SCSIFS which has a low level back end (originally for the
WDC chipset on the Acorn podule, later USB too). So SCSIFS knows about SCSI
commands but leaves the hardware transport to another module.

Likewise SDFS, where SDFS knows about memory card commands, and gets
SDIODriver to serialise it and wiggle pins about.

The rewrite of ADFS in C for Titanium has taken the opportunity to pull apart
the filing system bit (ADFS) and the backend hardware pin wiggling. Currently
there's only a SATA backend because that's what the 4 ports on the Cortex-A15
Titanium motherboard needed first.

At some point it would be reasonably simple to write a PATA backend so that
this new ADFS 4 can be used on an Iyonix or Risc PC/A7k series, as ADFS
already formulates the ATA commands and the only bit you're missing is
sending them via a ribbon cable to the IDE drive, which appears as a bit of
memory mapped I/O.

Least well developed is floppy support. One way to integrate that into ADFS 4
would be leaving it in assembler and just call it from C at the appropriate
points. Or - volunteers sought to translate the floppy state machine into C,
Sprow.

0
Sprow
12/12/2015 9:20:23 PM
Sprow <news@sprow.co.uk> wrote:
> The rewrite of ADFS in C for Titanium has taken the opportunity to pull
> apart the filing system bit (ADFS) and the backend hardware pin wiggling. 
> Currently there's only a SATA backend because that's what the 4 ports on
> the Cortex-A15 Titanium motherboard needed first.

Is this backend AHCI compatible, or does the TI SoC use another protocol?

> At some point it would be reasonably simple to write a PATA backend so that
> this new ADFS 4 can be used on an Iyonix or Risc PC/A7k series, as ADFS
> already formulates the ATA commands and the only bit you're missing is
> sending them via a ribbon cable to the IDE drive, which appears as a bit of
> memory mapped I/O.

....or via your friendly PCI(e) PATA controller.

> Least well developed is floppy support. One way to integrate that into
> ADFS 4 would be leaving it in assembler and just call it from C at the
> appropriate points.  Or - volunteers sought to translate the floppy state
> machine into C, Sprow.

It's rather unfortunate the way RISC OS ties file paths to the name of the
filing system.  It might make sense to leave ADFS handling floppies and have
a new ATAFS doing hard drives.  But a) changing that would break hardcoded
paths people have, and b) the {ATAFS, IDEFS, IDE} namespace is already
pretty crowded with (incompatible) third party filing systems.

Possibly taking old-ADFS, putting a wrapper around it and calling itself
ADFSFloppyDriver might be the thing to do.  Floppies are a particular pain
to get right, and one it's really not worth spending time on these days.

Theo

PS. For the record there are also the Arxe floppy driver sources:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~theom/riscos/arxe/
however I never asked about licences when I got permission to release them
:-(
0
Theo
12/13/2015 12:43:52 PM
On Tuesday, 8 December 2015 12:36:37 UTC, Tony van der Hoff  wrote:
>=20
> Incidentally, Andrew, if you've really recently installed Debian 4.0,=20
> you're seriously out of date; and it doesn't contain Linux 3. Current=20
> stable is Jessie; Debian 8!
>=20
I know. My Raspberry Pi2 runs raspbian-jessie, and an x86 box Debian-testin=
g.  However etch is the last armv4 version (without recompiling everything =
myself,though I have started experimenting with kernels - and finding the s=
witch to libata a barrier).  I may try a "standard" upgrade to 5.0 and see =
how badly it breaks - perhaps spectacularly as there was a move to EABI and=
 official support for armv5 as a minimum.

etch may be old, but it's younger than the RiscPC by a mile,and younger tha=
n the version I used to have installed - 2.0.36 from Russell King's ARMLinu=
x site - by nearly as much!

0
ajw99uk
12/13/2015 2:14:13 PM
ajw99uk@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> I know. My Raspberry Pi2 runs raspbian-jessie, and an x86 box
> Debian-testing.  However etch is the last armv4 version (without
> recompiling everything myself,though I have started experimenting with
> kernels - and finding the switch to libata a barrier).  I may try a
> "standard" upgrade to 5.0 and see how badly it breaks - perhaps
> spectacularly as there was a move to EABI and official support for armv5
> as a minimum.

My guess would be it won't work, not just due to armv5 instructions but also
due to using the armv4 halfword instructions that the Risc PC motherboard
doesn't support.  They might be alright on Kinetic (does Linux run on it?)
or on RPCEmu but are an issue for real hardware.

I don't know how much bashing into shape it would require, but Yocto is a
distro designed for targeting embedded platforms like the Risc PC, where it
builds all the packages in one go, where you choose the build options for
your specific platform.  It's more limited than Debian, however.

Theo
0
Theo
12/13/2015 3:23:22 PM
On Sunday, December 13, 2015 at 3:23:25 PM UTC, Theo Markettos wrote:
> ajw99uk@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> > I know. My Raspberry Pi2 runs raspbian-jessie, and an x86 box
> > Debian-testing.  However etch is the last armv4 version (without
> > recompiling everything myself,though I have started experimenting with
> > kernels - and finding the switch to libata a barrier).  I may try a
> > "standard" upgrade to 5.0 and see how badly it breaks - perhaps
> > spectacularly as there was a move to EABI and official support for armv5
> > as a minimum.
> 
> My guess would be it won't work, not just due to armv5 instructions but also
> due to using the armv4 halfword instructions that the Risc PC motherboard
> doesn't support.  They might be alright on Kinetic (does Linux run on it?)
> or on RPCEmu but are an issue for real hardware.

Linux does work on Kinetic, though I am not sure whether it is using the full potential - I have 192MB RAM and 256MB SODIMM but the machine will not boot with anything more 192MB (specified as a kernel option for !dRun / linloader).

It will have to be a very rainy day before I try the upgrade anyway.
> 
> I don't know how much bashing into shape it would require, but Yocto is a
> distro designed for targeting embedded platforms like the Risc PC, where it
> builds all the packages in one go, where you choose the build options for
> your specific platform.  It's more limited than Debian, however.
> 
Thanks for the pointer, will have a look.

Andrew

0
ajw99uk
12/13/2015 8:13:20 PM
In article <8kg*cO1Mv@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo Markettos
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Sprow <news@sprow.co.uk> wrote:
> > Currently there's only a SATA backend because that's what the 4 ports on
> > the Cortex-A15 Titanium motherboard needed first.
>
> Is this backend AHCI compatible, or does the TI SoC use another protocol?

Yes, it's AHCI compatible, plus or minus any implementation quirks and chip
specific PHY magic.

> > At some point it would be reasonably simple to write a PATA backend so
> > that this new ADFS 4 can be used on an Iyonix or Risc PC/A7k series, as
> > ADFS already formulates the ATA commands and the only bit you're missing
> > is sending them via a ribbon cable to the IDE drive, which appears as a
> > bit of memory mapped I/O.
>
> ...or via your friendly PCI(e) PATA controller.

I actually have a PCIe card with both PATA and SATA on it, bought because it
was red mainly, but yes it could be a useful test.

> > Least well developed is floppy support. One way to integrate that into
> > ADFS 4 would be leaving it in assembler and just call it from C at the
> > appropriate points.  Or - volunteers sought to translate the floppy state
> > machine into C.
>
> It's rather unfortunate the way RISC OS ties file paths to the name of the
> filing system.  It might make sense to leave ADFS handling floppies and
> have a new ATAFS doing hard drives. 

The converse is also true: by rewriting ADFS all the preexisting stuff just
works - HForm, ATAPI, the disc plugin in !Configure, ADFSFiler, amongst other
things,
Sprow.

0
Sprow
12/13/2015 9:02:35 PM
Sprow <news@sprow.co.uk> wrote:

> The rewrite of ADFS in C for Titanium has taken the opportunity
> to pull apart the filing system bit (ADFS) and the backend
> hardware pin wiggling. Currently there's only a SATA backend
> because that's what the 4 ports on the Cortex-A15 Titanium
> motherboard needed first.

Any chances on getting TRIM support for SSD discs?

Cheers,
Jan-Jaap
0
Jan
12/15/2015 3:00:26 PM
In article <1d3a6a3255.Jan-Jaap@armx6.gmx.com>,
   Jan-Jaap van der Geer <jjvdgeer@zapo.net> wrote:
> Sprow <news@sprow.co.uk> wrote:
> > The rewrite of ADFS in C for Titanium has taken the opportunity
> > to pull apart the filing system bit (ADFS) and the backend
> > hardware pin wiggling. Currently there's only a SATA backend
> > because that's what the 4 ports on the Cortex-A15 Titanium
> > motherboard needed first.
>
> Any chances on getting TRIM support for SSD discs?

I think the amount of new development will be in proportion to the number of
Titanium motherboards sold - so there's certainly a chance.

On a technical level I think the TRIM support would (at least in part) be in
FileCore since it's the one that knows the list of sectors that have become
free. From ADFS' point of view it would only see the write to update the map
and directory which isn't much use for sector recycling, yet it would be ADFS
that needs to formulate the TRIM commands,
Sprow.

0
Sprow
12/15/2015 8:13:56 PM
Sprow <news@sprow.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <1d3a6a3255.Jan-Jaap@armx6.gmx.com>,
>    Jan-Jaap van der Geer <jjvdgeer@zapo.net> wrote:

> > Any chances on getting TRIM support for SSD discs?

> I think the amount of new development will be in proportion to
> the number of Titanium motherboards sold - so there's certainly a
> chance.

Nice :)

> On a technical level I think the TRIM support would (at least in
> part) be in FileCore since it's the one that knows the list of
> sectors that have become free. From ADFS' point of view it would
> only see the write to update the map and directory which isn't
> much use for sector recycling, yet it would be ADFS that needs to
> formulate the TRIM commands,

That makes sense yes.

I've looked a tiny bit at making a program that TRIMs all free
space, but I had trouble understanding the specs where I could find
the free space map, and had no idea at all how to do a TRIM. Then
something happened and I abandoned the idea.

Not sure if I even would dare releasing a product like that. I
suppose a bug could have bad consequences...

Cheers,
Jan-Jaap
0
Jan
12/15/2015 9:00:23 PM
On 15/12/2015 21:00, Jan-Jaap van der Geer wrote:
> Sprow <news@sprow.co.uk> wrote:
>> On a technical level I think the TRIM support would (at least in
>> part) be in FileCore since it's the one that knows the list of
>> sectors that have become free. From ADFS' point of view it would
>> only see the write to update the map and directory which isn't
>> much use for sector recycling, yet it would be ADFS that needs to
>> formulate the TRIM commands,

Ideally ADFS would register with Filecore as a TRIM aware FS, then 
Filecore would notify it with a list of block as they become unused 
following deletion, file shrinkage or zone compaction.

> That makes sense yes.
>
> I've looked a tiny bit at making a program that TRIMs all free
> space, but I had trouble understanding the specs where I could find
> the free space map, and had no idea at all how to do a TRIM. Then
> something happened and I abandoned the idea.

But if we were hacking it in to ADFS with no support from Filecore, it 
would need to:-

* Recognise it was a Filecore format disc it was dealing with,
   and calculate the address of the disc maps
* Cache the current disk map (or possibly just the free space chains)
* Watch for writes to the disc map, then calculate the trim data

The disc map is written after any alteration of the disc which changes 
the which parts of the disc are used or free, so if you compare the new 
map contents with the old one, you'll be able to work out if any parts 
of the disc have been released which could be trimmed.

You would do this by looking for a change the free space chain in a 
zone, due to file being deleted or a zone being compacted. Any whole 
flash disk blocks within this free space can be passed to TRIM.

This wouldn't pick up files shrinking but retaining their allocation in 
the map, as to find that you need to know the file extent from its 
directory, and it would be too expensive to run around looking for that. 
You would just have to hope that the zone was eventually recompacted to 
recover this space.

>> Not sure if I even would dare releasing a product like that. I
>> suppose a bug could have bad consequences...

It would lead to an incorrectly trimmed block which may then be 
corrupted by the drive firmware when it wear levelled the disc. You 
wouldn't be aware of it unless it hit a directory or you loaded an 
affected file. But then any bugs in filing system code can do the same.

---druck
0
druck
12/17/2015 5:36:33 PM
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> On 15/12/2015 21:00, Jan-Jaap van der Geer wrote:

> > I've looked a tiny bit at making a program that TRIMs all free
> > space, but I had trouble understanding the specs where I could
> > find the free space map, and had no idea at all how to do a
> > TRIM. Then something happened and I abandoned the idea.

> But if we were hacking it in to ADFS with no support from
> Filecore, it would need to:-

I was not thinking of hacking it in to ADFS. Just a separate
utility that finds all the free space on a disc and tells the
disc about what parts of the disc are free through the TRIM
command.

I think that should in theory be quite simple.

fstrim is something like that:
http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/fstrim.8.html

> > Not sure if I even would dare releasing a product like that. I
> > suppose a bug could have bad consequences...

> It would lead to an incorrectly trimmed block which may then be
> corrupted by the drive firmware when it wear levelled the disc.
> You wouldn't be aware of it unless it hit a directory or you
> loaded an affected file. But then any bugs in filing system code
> can do the same.

Indeed. But I would have to be pretty sure there are no bugs before
I would dare release such a product in the wild... :)

Cheers,
Jan-Jaap
0
Jan
12/17/2015 6:34:28 PM
On 17/12/2015 18:34, Jan-Jaap van der Geer wrote:
> I was not thinking of hacking it in to ADFS. Just a separate
> utility that finds all the free space on a disc and tells the
> disc about what parts of the disc are free through the TRIM
> command.
>
> I think that should in theory be quite simple.

It would be quite simple to add to DiscKnight, or to strip out the disc 
fixing code to make a separate utility. Someone let me know how to send 
the TRIM command and I'll give it a go.

---druck

0
druck
12/18/2015 5:52:42 PM
Reply:

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