f



Developers! Developers! Developers!

If only we had Steve Balmer to drum up more excitment for IIGS 
development…wouldn’t that be awesome?!?Maybe not…

So you’ll just have to put up with me waving the rainbow coloured Apple 
flag and trying to get more people interested in coding some games for 
the IIGS.

http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/for-home-brew-just-add-hops-skips-jumps-blood-sweat-tears 


I know it’s a big ask…but I know I’d regret it if I didn’t try in my 
limited capacity and skills.

- Alex
-- 
http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/

0
alelee (190)
10/17/2011 10:38:52 PM
comp.sys.apple2 11066 articles. 4 followers. antoine.vignau (1077) is leader. Post Follow

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Here's my opinion on it, and I'll keep it short: look at the 8-bit Apple:
we've got free documentation (either PDF, or the zillions of physical ref
mans out there) plus free compilers. Now look at the IIgs: there is some
technical documentation out there (how many GS technical manuals do I own:
zero), but you still have to buy most of it. You need a bookshelf just to
use the toolbox and everything else properly. Most of the compilers and
other tools are still commercial.

-- 
]DF$
Mac GUI Vault - A source for retro Apple II and
Macintosh computing.
http://macgui.com/vault/
0
dog_cow (954)
10/17/2011 10:56:29 PM
Hi Alex,

You might add GSoft BASIC to the list of languages. It's now available
as a free download from www.byteworks.us.

Mike Westerfield
0
MikeW50 (33)
10/17/2011 11:46:14 PM
On Oct 17, 2:56=A0pm, dog_...@macgui.com (D Finnigan) wrote:
> You need a bookshelf just to
> use the toolbox and everything else properly. Most of the compilers and
> other tools are still commercial.

The sellers of the documentation and tools should give incentive to
buy the products.  IE, release some cool freeware, get docs and
tools for free or discount.

0
aiiadict (1731)
10/17/2011 11:52:57 PM
rich12345 wrote:
> On Oct 17, 2:56�pm, dog_...@macgui.com (D Finnigan) wrote:
>> You need a bookshelf just to
>> use the toolbox and everything else properly. Most of the compilers and
>> other tools are still commercial.
> 
> The sellers of the documentation and tools should give incentive to
> buy the products.  IE, release some cool freeware, get docs and
> tools for free or discount.
>

I happen to have a very old (inherited) copy of ORCA/M, still in its
original maroon slipcase with 3-ring binder, and I've been considering
purchasing the ORCA/C compiler plus some documentation to get started on the
IIgs.

Might point is that the cost of tools + docs introduces a barrier to entry
that (largely) doesn't exist on the 8-bit Apples.

-- 
]DF$
Mac GUI Vault - A source for retro Apple II and
Macintosh computing.
http://macgui.com/vault/
0
dog_cow (954)
10/18/2011 12:06:13 AM
Another excellent resource for learning to program the GS is Lim Thye
Chean's website: http://virtualgs.larwe.com/Virtual_GS/Welcome.html He
taught his son, who at the time was about 7 or 8, to program the GS in
Complete Pascal! He's got some comparisons of programs written in
Complete Pascal and GSoft Basic.

Dean

P.S. He's had me seriously considering trying to learn to program the
GS!
0
dean.phares (601)
10/18/2011 1:16:22 AM
All Complete Pascal Resources available from one location (includes
links to Lim Thye Chean's and Polymorph's sites):
http://www.snowcat.com/a2programming/resources.htm

Between that and now free GSoft BASIC, programming on the GS has never
been more accessible.

On Oct 17, 7:16=A0pm, magnusfalkirk <dean.pha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Another excellent resource for learning to program the GS is Lim Thye
> Chean's website:http://virtualgs.larwe.com/Virtual_GS/Welcome.htmlHe
> taught his son, who at the time was about 7 or 8, to program the GS in
> Complete Pascal! He's got some comparisons of programs written in
> Complete Pascal and GSoft Basic.
>
> Dean
>
> P.S. He's had me seriously considering trying to learn to program the
> GS!

0
skierpaul (650)
10/18/2011 4:07:11 AM
On 2011-10-18 00:46:14 +0100, Mike Westerfield said:

> Hi Alex,
> 
> You might add GSoft BASIC to the list of languages. It's now available
> as a free download from www.byteworks.us.
> 
> Mike Westerfield

Done! Thanks for making GSoft BASIC free to all Mike!

- Alex
-- 
http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/

0
alelee (190)
10/18/2011 11:49:06 AM
On 2011-10-18 02:16:22 +0100, magnusfalkirk said:

> Another excellent resource for learning to program the GS is Lim Thye
> Chean's website: http://virtualgs.larwe.com/Virtual_GS/Welcome.html He
> taught his son, who at the time was about 7 or 8, to program the GS in
> Complete Pascal! He's got some comparisons of programs written in
> Complete Pascal and GSoft Basic.
> 
> Dean
> 
> P.S. He's had me seriously considering trying to learn to program the
> GS!

Another excellent suggestion. Have added links for Lim's site, as well 
as PZ's Complete Pascal site.

Keep em coming!

- Alex
-- 
http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/

0
alelee (190)
10/18/2011 11:51:14 AM
Dont forget Michael Stephens (Polymorph) has the manual here:
http://www.cirruscomms.com.au/~mike_stephens/apple2/TML_Pascal/index.html

Its not the latest, its from an earlier version, but its still good.

He also has some great sample code:
http://www.cirruscomms.com.au/~mike_stephens/apple2/Pascal_Programming/inde=
x.html

BTW, IF ANYONE KNOWS OF A COPY OF THE COMPLETE PASCAL v2.0 MANUAL, LET
US KNOW!
-Paul

On Oct 18, 5:51=A0am, Alex Lee <ale...@mac.com> wrote:
> On 2011-10-18 02:16:22 +0100, magnusfalkirk said:
>
> > Another excellent resource for learning to program the GS is Lim Thye
> > Chean's website:http://virtualgs.larwe.com/Virtual_GS/Welcome.htmlHe
> > taught his son, who at the time was about 7 or 8, to program the GS in
> > Complete Pascal! He's got some comparisons of programs written in
> > Complete Pascal and GSoft Basic.
>
> > Dean
>
> > P.S. He's had me seriously considering trying to learn to program the
> > GS!
>
> Another excellent suggestion. Have added links for Lim's site, as well
> as PZ's Complete Pascal site.
>
> Keep em coming!
>
> - Alex
> --http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/

0
skierpaul (650)
10/18/2011 3:54:20 PM
On Oct 17, 4:38=A0pm, Alex Lee <ale...@mac.com> wrote:
> If only we had Steve Balmer to drum up more excitment for IIGS
> development=85wouldn=92t that be awesome?!?Maybe not=85
>
> So you=92ll just have to put up with me waving the rainbow coloured Apple
> flag and trying to get more people interested in coding some games for
> the IIGS.
>
> http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/for-home-brew-just-add-hops-ski...
>
> I know it=92s a big ask=85but I know I=92d regret it if I didn=92t try in=
 my
> limited capacity and skills.
>
> - Alex
> --http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/

Hi Alex,

I do not see a lot of interest in any 80's 16-bit or GUI platform
development.  (I am also not looking :-)  Is anybody writing games for
Mac System 6 or Windows 3.0 or DOS?

As far as I can tell most retro enthusiasts cut their teeth on 8-bit
systems.  There is a lot of beauty in the simplicity of various 8-bit
platforms.  And getting old 8-bit systems to do some of the common
place things that you see with more advanced and powerful 16-bit
systems is an attractive challenge, and IMHO, fun.  I was blown away
when I saw "Escape! from the HomeBrew Computer Club 3D" on a II.  Can
you imagine the impact that would have had on our culture and
computing if that was released in the late '70s?

If I want the frustration of developing GUI apps for more powerful
platforms, then I'll write an iOS app.  I get more joy out of counting
cycles than reading volumes of API references.  I think other retro-
coders may feel the same way.

BTW, I did purchase ORCA/M and ORCA/C.  I was interested about 2 years
ago in IIGS development, but I really didn't have the time.  Still
don't.
0
datajerk (376)
10/18/2011 4:03:27 PM
On Oct 17, 4:46=A0pm, Mike Westerfield <Mike...@aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Alex,
>
> You might add GSoft BASIC to the list of languages. It's now available
> as a free download fromwww.byteworks.us.
>
> Mike Westerfield


Mike, is there a place where orca/c can be purchased?

If so, what is the cost?
0
10/18/2011 4:06:01 PM
IUnknown wrote:
> Mike, is there a place where orca/c can be purchased?
> 
> If so, what is the cost?

Should be available from Syndicomm http://store.syndicomm.com

A direct link to the downloadable purchase is -
http://store.16sector.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=190

(yeah, syndicom is now related to 16sector.)

-- 
Wholly
0
wholly1 (63)
10/18/2011 7:24:15 PM
On 2011-10-18 17:03:27 +0100, Egan Ford said:

> On Oct 17, 4:38 pm, Alex Lee <ale...@mac.com> wrote:
>> If only we had Steve Balmer to drum up more excitment for IIGS
>> development…wouldn’t that be awesome?!?Maybe not…
>> 
>> So you’ll just have to put up with me waving the rainbow coloured Apple
>> flag and trying to get more people interested in coding some games for
>> the IIGS.
>> 
>> http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/for-home-brew-just-add-hops-ski...
>> 
>> I know it’s a big ask…but I know I’d regret it if I didn’t try in my
>> limited capacity and skills.
>> 
>> - Alex
>> --http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/
> 
> Hi Alex,
> 
> I do not see a lot of interest in any 80's 16-bit or GUI platform
> development.  (I am also not looking :-)  Is anybody writing games for
> Mac System 6 or Windows 3.0 or DOS?

I guess Ewen Wannop and Eric Shepherd might have something to say about that.

I read yesterday that someone relased a super duper version of 'Daleks' 
for 68k Macs. And there's a Twitter client for Mac System 6, just as 
Ryan Suenga had created one for GS/OS.

> As far as I can tell most retro enthusiasts cut their teeth on 8-bit
> systems.  There is a lot of beauty in the simplicity of various 8-bit
> platforms.  And getting old 8-bit systems to do some of the common
> place things that you see with more advanced and powerful 16-bit
> systems is an attractive challenge, and IMHO, fun.  I was blown away
> when I saw "Escape! from the HomeBrew Computer Club 3D" on a II.  Can
> you imagine the impact that would have had on our culture and
> computing if that was released in the late '70s?

Fair points. But I don't think it should stop anyone who might want to try.

> If I want the frustration of developing GUI apps for more powerful
> platforms, then I'll write an iOS app.  I get more joy out of counting
> cycles than reading volumes of API references.  I think other retro-
> coders may feel the same way.

Well, you could start writing 'on the metal' like the FTA did for the IIGS? ;-)

> BTW, I did purchase ORCA/M and ORCA/C.  I was interested about 2 years
> ago in IIGS development, but I really didn't have the time.  Still
> don't.

Would you consider passing them onto those who might be more interested?

- Alex
-- 
http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/

0
alelee (190)
10/18/2011 8:22:48 PM
On Oct 18, 2:22=A0pm, Alex Lee <ale...@mac.com> wrote:
> On 2011-10-18 17:03:27 +0100, Egan Ford said:
> > I do not see a lot of interest in any 80's 16-bit or GUI platform
> > development. =A0(I am also not looking :-) =A0Is anybody writing games =
for
> > Mac System 6 or Windows 3.0 or DOS?
>
> I guess Ewen Wannop and Eric Shepherd might have something to say about t=
hat.
>
> I read yesterday that someone relased a super duper version of 'Daleks'
> for 68k Macs. And there's a Twitter client for Mac System 6, just as
> Ryan Suenga had created one for GS/OS.

Like I stated.  I haven't been looking.  BTW, I don't look for new 8-
bit specific development either, but as I read blogs, articles, and
links sent to me from friends, it almost always centers around 8-bit
retro tech.  I guess what I am trying to say is that 8-bits finds me.

> > As far as I can tell most retro enthusiasts cut their teeth on 8-bit
> > systems. =A0There is a lot of beauty in the simplicity of various 8-bit
> > platforms. =A0And getting old 8-bit systems to do some of the common
> > place things that you see with more advanced and powerful 16-bit
> > systems is an attractive challenge, and IMHO, fun. =A0I was blown away
> > when I saw "Escape! from the HomeBrew Computer Club 3D" on a II. =A0Can
> > you imagine the impact that would have had on our culture and
> > computing if that was released in the late '70s?
>
> Fair points. But I don't think it should stop anyone who might want to tr=
y.

I do not recall suggesting that none should.  Just my observations.

> > If I want the frustration of developing GUI apps for more powerful
> > platforms, then I'll write an iOS app. =A0I get more joy out of countin=
g
> > cycles than reading volumes of API references. =A0I think other retro-
> > coders may feel the same way.
>
> Well, you could start writing 'on the metal' like the FTA did for the IIG=
S? ;-)

Yep, I started there.  But I am not interested in writing games.  If a
platform has a GUI, then I would argue it should be used for non-game
apps.

> > BTW, I did purchase ORCA/M and ORCA/C. =A0I was interested about 2 year=
s
> > ago in IIGS development, but I really didn't have the time. =A0Still
> > don't.
>
> Would you consider passing them onto those who might be more interested?

If in boxes, I would consider it.  But I purchased both from Syndicomm
as downloads.  I would suggest others do the same.
0
datajerk (376)
10/18/2011 8:52:02 PM
On Oct 18, 1:24=A0pm, who...@whollymindless.com (Wholly Mindless) wrote:
> IUnknown wrote:
> > Mike, is there a place where orca/c can be purchased?
>
> > If so, what is the cost?
>
> Should be available from Syndicommhttp://store.syndicomm.com
>
> A direct link to the downloadable purchase is -http://store.16sector.com/=
index.php?main_page=3Dproduct_info&products_i...
>
> (yeah, syndicom is now related to 16sector.)
>
> --
> Wholly

Let me know if you have any problems. Providing Apple II software is
more of a hobby than a moneymaker, of course. I'm not sure how well
things are working since Sheppy passed the baton.

Mike Westerfield
0
MikeW50 (33)
10/19/2011 1:00:01 PM
Mike Westerfield wrote:
> Let me know if you have any problems. Providing Apple II software is
> more of a hobby than a moneymaker, of course. I'm not sure how well
> things are working since Sheppy passed the baton.

Tony's a good and honest guy.  Hopefully we (as a community) can buy often
enough from him that he gets into a rhythm and keeps up.  The downloadable
versions will hopefully help turn around time for people.  It's nice to have
an legal way to get access to some of these things.

-- 
Wholly
0
wholly1 (63)
10/19/2011 2:52:38 PM
Egan,

> I guess Ewen Wannop and Eric Shepherd might have something to say about that.

I should think so too! I just wish there were more of us writing for the
IIgs, to give us some decent competition! :)

Cheers - Ewen
0
10/20/2011 7:17:06 AM
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