Why not a documentary on the rise and fall of CBM ? Sorta like a
"Pirates of Silicon Valley" (loved it) but for CBM ?

Marcel

dragonbreed@aol.com schrieb:
> Why not a documentary on the rise and fall of CBM ? Sorta like a
> "Pirates of Silicon Valley" (loved it) but for CBM ?

Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales of 
Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).

Thomas

Not quite like that, but I am putting together a book documenting some
of my Commodore-specific history as a computer user:

http://www.lulu.com/content/112358

I'm about halfway through writing the book, called Silicon Waves. This
is a pre-proofed edition (approximately 22 chapters in).

Paul

dragonbreed@aol.com wrote:
> Why not a documentary on the rise and fall of CBM ? Sorta like a
> "Pirates of Silicon Valley" (loved it) but for CBM ?
> 
> Marcel

Dr. Thomas Radtke wrote:
> dragonbreed@aol.com schrieb:
> 
>> Why not a documentary on the rise and fall of CBM ? Sorta like a
>> "Pirates of Silicon Valley" (loved it) but for CBM ?
> 
> 
> Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales of 
> Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
> 
> Thomas
> 

Is there a torrent of that somewhere?

Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:

>>Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales of 
>>Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).

>Is there a torrent of that somewhere?

Why not buy it?

http://www.frogpondmedia.com/dbv/index.html

--
      Cameron Kaiser * ckaiser@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
                personal page: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/
  ** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
                  ** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ **

Actually, I was making a documentary about all 1980's era computers 
including the Apple II, Atari, and Commodore about 2 years ago.  I 
divided it up into chapters of various aspects including calliing BBSs 
and playing games.  I took lots of screenshots from various computer and 
game consoles too.  It was going to be great.. but then I had a baby and 
realized soon after I'd have to put the project on infinate hold until 
there was time for that again.  Somebody else will probably beat me to it 
now.  If anybody is interested, I actually did finish about 12 minutes of 
video or so.. Part of it needs the audio redubbed but most of the video 
is fabulous.  I also have tons of footage I took of various 1980's 
computers and lots of high-res pictures.  Most of them I borrowed from 
the place I work which has a computer museum and took them home.  Even 
have the Tandy 100 and its floppy drive too.

I had TV commercials of the Apple II, Atari,  Commodore Vic20 and C64 and 
the Amiga that I was going to put in there too.

I also used music from old SID tunes and some MOD files from the Amiga to 
use a background music.. I thought it was fitting.



dunric@yahoo.com wrote in news:1110441993.894432.72740
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> Not quite like that, but I am putting together a book documenting some
> of my Commodore-specific history as a computer user:
> 
> http://www.lulu.com/content/112358
> 
> I'm about halfway through writing the book, called Silicon Waves. This
> is a pre-proofed edition (approximately 22 chapters in).
> 
> Paul
> 
> dragonbreed@aol.com wrote:
>> Why not a documentary on the rise and fall of CBM ? Sorta like a
>> "Pirates of Silicon Valley" (loved it) but for CBM ?
>> 
>> Marcel
> 
> 

Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>>Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales of 
>>>Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
> 
> 
>>Is there a torrent of that somewhere?
> 
> 
> Why not buy it?
> 
> http://www.frogpondmedia.com/dbv/index.html
> 
> --
>       Cameron Kaiser * ckaiser@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
>                 personal page: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/
>   ** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
>                   ** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ **

I never imagined that something like that would actually be for sale. 
Oh well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.

Pete

Pete Rittwage wrote:
> Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> 
>> Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>> Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales 
>>>> of Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
>>
>>
>>
>>> Is there a torrent of that somewhere?

> I never imagined that something like that would actually be for sale. Oh 
> well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.
> 
> Pete
> 

You don't use eMule (plus)?

"David Murray" <spamsucks@stopspam.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns9615542B0CA4neverspamnospamcom@151.164.30.48...
> Actually, I was making a documentary about all 1980's era computers
> including the Apple II, Atari, and Commodore about 2 years ago.  I
> divided it up into chapters of various aspects including calliing BBSs
> and playing games.  I took lots of screenshots from various computer and
> game consoles too.  It was going to be great.. but then I had a baby and
> realized soon after I'd have to put the project on infinate hold until
> there was time for that again.  Somebody else will probably beat me to it
> now.  If anybody is interested, I actually did finish about 12 minutes of
> video or so.. Part of it needs the audio redubbed but most of the video
> is fabulous.  I also have tons of footage I took of various 1980's
> computers and lots of high-res pictures.  Most of them I borrowed from
> the place I work which has a computer museum and took them home.  Even
> have the Tandy 100 and its floppy drive too.
>
> I had TV commercials of the Apple II, Atari,  Commodore Vic20 and C64 and
> the Amiga that I was going to put in there too.

Absolutely! There was a thread in comp.sys.apple2 not to long ago regarding 
finding Apple II TV commercials.

-Greg
>
> I also used music from old SID tunes and some MOD files from the Amiga to
> use a background music.. I thought it was fitting.
>
>
>
> dunric@yahoo.com wrote in news:1110441993.894432.72740
> @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Not quite like that, but I am putting together a book documenting some
>> of my Commodore-specific history as a computer user:
>>
>> http://www.lulu.com/content/112358
>>
>> I'm about halfway through writing the book, called Silicon Waves. This
>> is a pre-proofed edition (approximately 22 chapters in).
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> dragonbreed@aol.com wrote:
>>> Why not a documentary on the rise and fall of CBM ? Sorta like a
>>> "Pirates of Silicon Valley" (loved it) but for CBM ?
>>>
>>> Marcel
>>
>>
> 

Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:

>>>>Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales of 
>>>>Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).

>>>Is there a torrent of that somewhere?

>>Why not buy it?
>>http://www.frogpondmedia.com/dbv/index.html

>I never imagined that something like that would actually be for sale. 
>Oh well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.

If it makes any difference to you, Frog Pond Media is Dave Haynie's site, so
you'd be getting a legal copy from the original source. He also sells seconds
on eBay from time to time.

--
      Cameron Kaiser * ckaiser@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
                personal page: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/
  ** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
                  ** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ **

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Cameron Kaiser wrote:

> If it makes any difference to you, Frog Pond Media is Dave Haynie's site, so
> you'd be getting a legal copy from the original source. He also sells seconds
> on eBay from time to time.

 	The Deathbed Vigil and other videos are also included in the Amiga 
Forever 6.0 CD.  http://www.amigaforever.com

 					Truly,
 					Robert Bernardo
 					Fresno Commodore User Group
 					http://videocam.net.au/fcug

i've been working on video CD's about commodores for a while now ,
i'm not going to claim that they're hollywood blockbusters ! ~ but
they'll play in most DVD players anywhere in the world and they're
cheap.

I would love to read it Paul, let me know when its done.

Marcel

"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
news:r%5Yd.62012$SF.29567@lakeread08...
> Pete Rittwage wrote:
> > Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> >
> >> Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales
> >>>> of Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Is there a torrent of that somewhere?
>
> > I never imagined that something like that would actually be for sale. Oh
> > well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.
> >
> > Pete
> >
>
> You don't use eMule (plus)?

Stealing is a sin isn't it?

Clockmeister wrote:
> "Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:r%5Yd.62012$SF.29567@lakeread08...
> 
>>Pete Rittwage wrote:
>>
>>>Cameron Kaiser wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales
>>>>>>of Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Is there a torrent of that somewhere?
>>
>>>I never imagined that something like that would actually be for sale. Oh
>>>well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.
>>>
>>>Pete
>>>
>>
>>You don't use eMule (plus)?
> 
> 
> Stealing is a sin isn't it?



Stealing is a sin. Stealing is wrong in any society.

Christian Lott wrote:
> Clockmeister wrote:
> 
>> "Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:r%5Yd.62012$SF.29567@lakeread08...
>>
>>> Pete Rittwage wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cameron Kaiser wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales
>>>>>>> of Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a torrent of that somewhere?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I never imagined that something like that would actually be for 
>>>> sale. Oh
>>>> well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
>>>
>>> You don't use eMule (plus)?
>>
>>
>>
>> Stealing is a sin isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stealing is a sin. Stealing is wrong in any society.

I was waiting for a follow up, but since none is forthcoming...

Is renting a movie from Blockbuster stealing?

Is borrowing a movie to watch from a friend stealing?

"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
news:tnDYd.62320$SF.11998@lakeread08...
> Clockmeister wrote:
> > "Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:r%5Yd.62012$SF.29567@lakeread08...
> >
> >>Pete Rittwage wrote:
> >>
> >>>Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales
> >>>>>>of Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Is there a torrent of that somewhere?
> >>
> >>>I never imagined that something like that would actually be for sale.
Oh
> >>>well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.
> >>>
> >>>Pete
> >>>
> >>
> >>You don't use eMule (plus)?
> >
> >
> > Stealing is a sin isn't it?
>
>
>
> Stealing is a sin. Stealing is wrong in any society.

So why are you advocating it and presumably doing it yourself at the risk of
going to hell, or do you only believe in that nonsense at your convienience?

Clockmeister wrote:
> "Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:tnDYd.62320$SF.11998@lakeread08...
> 
>>Clockmeister wrote:
>>
>>>"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>news:r%5Yd.62012$SF.29567@lakeread08...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Pete Rittwage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Cameron Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales
>>>>>>>>of Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is there a torrent of that somewhere?
>>>>
>>>>>I never imagined that something like that would actually be for sale.
> 
> Oh
> 
>>>>>well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Pete
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You don't use eMule (plus)?
>>>
>>>
>>>Stealing is a sin isn't it?
>>
>>
>>
>>Stealing is a sin. Stealing is wrong in any society.
> 
> 
> So why are you advocating it and presumably doing it yourself at the risk of
> going to hell, or do you only believe in that nonsense at your convienience?

Evil has no soul. You can't have an afterlife without a soul. The 
absence is called Hell.

I'm just wondering sometimes with all the corruption in this world - who 
is stealing from who.

I think eMule is liberating. I can't understand why people (including 
me) spend their money on toys and trifles when people are dying of 
starvation and innocent people are being murdered.

So I study the things around me and collect AS MUCH information as 
possible and I have come to a few conclusions.

Truth is knowable. Truth is the conformance of the mind to reality.
Ethics is a science.

Are software and movies and music legitimate property? Their easy 
replication seems to hint that they are not or at least not the same as 
the traditional concept.

Instead of a product to spend my money on, what happened to the cause?

A few months ago I did some research to see what Dave Haynie was up to. 
You may recall I started a thread which brought up the subject of 
hardware and software engineers not being paid correctly.

Dave Haynie did start a computer project in the mid 90's I believe. What 
happened to it? There's an old website that's been deserted for quite 
some time. I don't remember what it was all about but I was interested 
enough to look up the web site in the first place.

Instead of being pedantic, do you have a formal argument against 
downloading and watching movies from eMule?

When I think of stealing I actually think about what purpose the money 
will serve. Maybe my $35 will buy Mr Haynie a pizza or maybe my $35 
could  be sent to feed a child in India for a month (really, it's only 
about $300 for an entire year).

If Mr Haynie has some real knowledge to share I'm sure a man of honor 
would share freely and not charge like a troll. If the movie turns out 
to be anything less than revealing, I may ask him for money for time 
spent wasted.

So what's the motive and conclusion? I'm interested in what he has to 
say. He should be flattered for my interest. If it is only $35 worth of 
knowledge he has to give my interest may be misguided.

Last, if after watching I am moved by it's conclusions and influenced by 
it's message - I hope he will value my continued interest and the 
subject centered propaganda which ensues as much as I did his movie.

Christian

--
For St. Thomas is only accidentally an innovator; his one desire is the 
truth: whereas innovations are made nowadays for the sake of novelty as 
such, and truth has become a mere accident.

-- Jacques Maritain, in St. Thomas Aquinas, 1931.

Christian Lott wrote:

>>>>>>>> Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales
>>>>>>>> of Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a torrent of that somewhere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I never imagined that something like that would actually be for 
>>>>> sale. Oh
>>>>> well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pete
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You don't use eMule (plus)?
>>>
>>>
>>> Stealing is a sin isn't it?
>>
>>
>> Stealing is a sin. Stealing is wrong in any society.
> 
> 
> I was waiting for a follow up, but since none is forthcoming...
> 
> Is renting a movie from Blockbuster stealing?
> 
> Is borrowing a movie to watch from a friend stealing?

Consider setting the follow-ups accordingly to the subject.

"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
news:udOYd.63317$SF.23761@lakeread08...
> Clockmeister wrote:
> > "Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:tnDYd.62320$SF.11998@lakeread08...
> >
> >>Clockmeister wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:r%5Yd.62012$SF.29567@lakeread08...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Pete Rittwage wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales
> >>>>>>>>of Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Is there a torrent of that somewhere?
> >>>>
> >>>>>I never imagined that something like that would actually be for sale.
> >
> > Oh
> >
> >>>>>well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Pete
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>You don't use eMule (plus)?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Stealing is a sin isn't it?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Stealing is a sin. Stealing is wrong in any society.
> >
> >
> > So why are you advocating it and presumably doing it yourself at the
risk of
> > going to hell, or do you only believe in that nonsense at your
convienience?
>
> Evil has no soul. You can't have an afterlife without a soul. The
> absence is called Hell.
>
> I'm just wondering sometimes with all the corruption in this world - who
> is stealing from who.
>
> I think eMule is liberating. I can't understand why people (including
> me) spend their money on toys and trifles when people are dying of
> starvation and innocent people are being murdered.
>
> So I study the things around me and collect AS MUCH information as
> possible and I have come to a few conclusions.
>
> Truth is knowable. Truth is the conformance of the mind to reality.
> Ethics is a science.
>

Snip more hypocrisy from a christian that bends to rules how he sees fit yet
still advocates his nonsensical religious beliefs.

You're a fucking hypocrite, end of story.

Clockmeister wrote:
> "Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:udOYd.63317$SF.23761@lakeread08...
>>Clockmeister wrote:
>>>"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>news:tnDYd.62320$SF.11998@lakeread08...
>>>>Clockmeister wrote:
>>>>>"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:r%5Yd.62012$SF.29567@lakeread08...
>>>>>>Pete Rittwage wrote:
>>>>>>>Cameron Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>>>>Pete Rittwage <rcade@rittwage.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>Half of what you want might be the 'Deathbed Vigil and other Tales
>>>>>>>>>>of Digital Angst' by Dave Haynie (Haven't seen it myself yet).
>>>>>>>>>Is there a torrent of that somewhere?
>>>>>>>I never imagined that something like that would actually be for sale.
>>>Oh
>>>>>>>well...  I'm definately not $35 + shipping interested in it.
>>>>>>>Pete
>>>>>>You don't use eMule (plus)?
>>>>>Stealing is a sin isn't it?
>>>>Stealing is a sin. Stealing is wrong in any society.
>>>So why are you advocating it and presumably doing it yourself at the risk of
>>>going to hell, or do you only believe in that nonsense at your convienience?
>>Evil has no soul. You can't have an afterlife without a soul. The
>>absence is called Hell.
>>I'm just wondering sometimes with all the corruption in this world - who
>>is stealing from who.
>>I think eMule is liberating. I can't understand why people (including
>>me) spend their money on toys and trifles when people are dying of
>>starvation and innocent people are being murdered.
>>So I study the things around me and collect AS MUCH information as
>>possible and I have come to a few conclusions.
>>Truth is knowable. Truth is the conformance of the mind to reality.
>>Ethics is a science.

> Snip more hypocrisy from a christian that bends to rules how he sees fit yet
> still advocates his nonsensical religious beliefs.
> You're a fucking hypocrite, end of story.

You're sort of like Rick with the F bombs, but this story of patent free 
software and documentaries/films/music etc - is not new.

I know you love Bill Gates and Hollywood, but I consider them thieves - 
who've taken more than they've given.

Christian

http://www.prolifeamerica.com/

Christian Lott wrote:

> You're sort of like Rick with the F bombs, but this story of patent free 
> software and documentaries/films/music etc - is not new.
> 
> I know you love Bill Gates and Hollywood, but I consider them thieves - 
> who've taken more than they've given.

Stealing is not a subjective thing.  If you did not obtain the goods 
legally, you stole them.  It matters not if the seller would not have 
done good with that money, or if you could use the money for a better cause.

If you feel Dave charges too much or you find it hard that the video has 
$35.00 of value, email him and note that.  Maybe he'll make you a deal. 
    It does not matter that Dave's web site is old, it matters not that 
his computer project is no more.  He has goods.  Either buy them or 
don't, but don't pirate them and then justify the action because your 
money wouldn't have done any good.

The pro-life stance holds that killing unborn babies is morally wrong, 
no matter the reasons.  You agree with that (as do I).  It is an 
application of the 6th commandment.  However, you can't then say the 8th 
(Do not steal) is subjective.  If #8 is subjective, so is #6.

If you can steal Dave's video because the $35.00 is too much value, then 
women should be able to kill unborn children if they don't perceive much 
value in that child.

Go ahead and compare me to Rick if you want, but I believe my 
credibility in this group is secure.

Jim

-- 
Jim Brain, Brain Innovations
brain@jbrain.com                                http://www.jbrain.com
Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!

Jim Brain wrote:

?Didn't you kill file me, Brain?


> Christian Lott wrote:
> 
>> You're sort of like Rick with the F bombs, but this story of patent 
>> free software and documentaries/films/music etc - is not new.
>>
>> I know you love Bill Gates and Hollywood, but I consider them thieves 
>> - who've taken more than they've given.
> 
> 
> Stealing is not a subjective thing.  If you did not obtain the goods 
> legally, you stole them.  It matters not if the seller would not have 
> done good with that money, or if you could use the money for a better 
> cause.

Now a human law maker equals God?

This is not the difference between objective and subjective. The fact 
that I give you money and don't know to what use you will put that money 
to is simply a bad investment.

To Cloc:

You like your WinXP computer and agree that it's a good operating system 
for your needs. Yet you must hate Bill Gates because he's donated large 
sums of money to the republican party (you do hate them, right?).

Since when do the laws of man apply? It's the laws of God or simple 
moral conscience we should heed. I'm not saying Dave Haynie will do 
anything more than buy a pizza from his cut of the money. Yet you state 
it perfectly clear (out of context):

"the seller would not have done good with that money, or if you could 
use the money for a better cause."


> 
> If you feel Dave charges too much or you find it hard that the video has 
> $35.00 of value, email him and note that.  Maybe he'll make you a deal. 
>    It does not matter that Dave's web site is old, it matters not that 
> his computer project is no more.  He has goods.  Either buy them or 
> don't, but don't pirate them and then justify the action because your 
> money wouldn't have done any good.

I've made no justification yet. I'm bringing up this topic because I 
believe it's relevant at all times to follow where you get your money 
and where it goes. Let me say again - I'm not picking on anyone in 
particular yet, but I know that the flow of money is of practical moral 
importance.

Maybe there should be a kind of Nutritional Facts label for corporations 
and sellers. That 'transparency' you hear so much about. I'm talking 
about big companies right now, not poor Dave Haynie because I know those 
C= engineers didn't get the kind of money they deserved - as I 
acknowledged previously.

You see, this kind of forethought about transparency avoids 
covetousness. These corporate manger to manager run pyramid schemes are 
exactly the type covetous cabals that make life a living hell for us all.

As far as pirating goes.. I know that if it weren't for some of these 
pirates we wouldn't even have a community right now. You may argue the 
opposite and say that maybe we would not only have a community but also 
a c= computer right now (ie that C= never would have gone bankrupt).

I just prefer to factor in the plausible. We may not like it but people 
will pirate. It's better to sell a product which can't be pirated or 
stolen. Thus we get to the truly valuable and stop wasting so much time 
with toys and trivia.

> 
> The pro-life stance holds that killing unborn babies is morally wrong, 
> no matter the reasons.  You agree with that (as do I).  It is an 
> application of the 6th commandment.  However, you can't then say the 8th 
> (Do not steal) is subjective.  If #8 is subjective, so is #6.
> 
> If you can steal Dave's video because the $35.00 is too much value, then 
> women should be able to kill unborn children if they don't perceive much 
> value in that child.

It's nice to hear you're pro life. You may be one of three in this group 
who are (out of how many - 30?).

Your comparison - killing being comparable to stealing though is asinine.

I know you may not believe in the Devil, but you may be able to pick up 
the logic:

You cannot make deals with the Devil. You work all day and use your 
money to buy from him - what do you get? Candy coated shit.

You are all a bunch of lawyers. Honestly, the only things of worth in 
this life is home and food and wife and children. Unfortunately, they've 
somehow managed to charge the price of a full meal for a movie. 
Meanwhile, people are starving.

The purpose to which you put yourself is only as valuable as it 
inherently is.

A man writes a six hundred page book and convinces you it has real 
knowledge in it. You read it and discover it's worthless. Do you ever 
get your money back? No you can't. Does he ever pay you back for wasting 
your time - no he doesn't. So that's not selling, THAT'S STEALING.

I can't believe day after day I glance at the news and most of what I 
see are commercials. That's simple harassment.

They think they can sit on their multi billion dollar nest eggs for 
generations collecting interest with their slave labor.

After all this, I actually do not even want to see this movie (though 
I'm still not opposed to sending Dave a few dollars if I knew what it 
was for: *probably food*), but if anyone has seen it, a review would be 
nice - or is that stealing too?

The politics of information and money.

Like I hinted at above, I believe the values of our society is off 
balance. You now may directly equate moral values with values on 
material objects and services. Laws control their movement and price 
more than competition. Can you now tell me why a $50 computer game is 
more worthy than feeding a starving child for a month?

These government laws are directly responsible (or SHOULD be) for the 
TRUE value of these items, goods and services.

The value of money rises and falls between countries. The value of life 
will always be the same (didn't you allude to this cloc, when you said a 
war fought is not worth just one death?).

There are already a million laws about 'free trade' - I just wonder when 
we're actually going to get to a point where the appearance of value 
corresponds with actual value.

(This is in no way slandering Dave, I just thought it would be a 
relevant issue seeing as how he DID play the company game like the rest 
and wound up with little to show for it in return. Maybe this little 
tirade will give the needed spark for more interest for his video and 
more sales. After all, it is spot on topic.)

> Go ahead and compare me to Rick if you want, but I believe my 
> credibility in this group is secure.

I thought it was cloc who was calling me a fucking hypocrite. You are 
too? Well then fuck you too.

I have a credibility all my own.

Thank you,

Christian

--
They thought they were

http://members.cox.net/sagrazi/tomcats4.ogg

but when questioned individually each agreed -

CLOC IS!






> 
> Jim
> 

>As far as pirating goes.. I know that if it weren't for some of these 
>pirates we wouldn't even have a community right now. You may argue the 
>opposite and say that maybe we would not only have a community but also 
>a c= computer right now (ie that C= never would have gone bankrupt).

C= didn't go bankrupt because of software or hardware piracy, they
went bankrupt because of some bad business decision, and market changes.

Thanks to the 75 year copyright laws, people who archive aging software
are technically criminals.   Without these "criminals" we wouldn't have
software for these machines, or for that matter a DTV. 

BTW, The Copyright Office has been soliciting comments from the public 
regarding "Orphaned" software since 26 January 2005. Deadline for 
comments is March 25. http://www.orphanworks.org/ 

>It's nice to hear you're pro life. You may be one of three in 
>this group who are (out of how many - 30?)

Make that 4..

>Your comparison - killing being comparable to stealing though 
>is asinine.

Depends on "whos" penalty you are concerned with...  


Oldbitcollector
 

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Oldbitcollector wrote:
>>As far as pirating goes.. I know that if it weren't for some of these 
>>pirates we wouldn't even have a community right now. You may argue the 
>>opposite and say that maybe we would not only have a community but also 
>>a c= computer right now (ie that C= never would have gone bankrupt).
> 
> 
> C= didn't go bankrupt because of software or hardware piracy, they
> went bankrupt because of some bad business decision, and market changes.
> 
> Thanks to the 75 year copyright laws, people who archive aging software
> are technically criminals.   Without these "criminals" we wouldn't have
> software for these machines, or for that matter a DTV. 
> 
> BTW, The Copyright Office has been soliciting comments from the public 
> regarding "Orphaned" software since 26 January 2005. Deadline for 
> comments is March 25. http://www.orphanworks.org/ 
> 
> 
>>It's nice to hear you're pro life. You may be one of three in 
>>this group who are (out of how many - 30?)
> 
> 
> Make that 4..
> 
> 
>>Your comparison - killing being comparable to stealing though 
>>is asinine.
> 
> 
> Depends on "whos" penalty you are concerned with...  

All very good comments and appreciated. I'd like to take this 
conversation away from the specific case of Dave Haynie, who seems the 
most deserving of our support anyway - and focus on the larger issue.

Because I spent my money on smokes does not mean I paid their correct 
price. As we see the law suits, the damages smoking causes are real not 
only to the smoker but even more so by second hand smoke.

Can this correlation be bound in with our beloved game machine, the c64?

Let's look at other cases where the price you paid for the product was 
nowhere near what it was worth. Cars. Aside from the pollution they 
cause - smog, oil spills, salvage yards and clogging dumps - they also 
extract a price in human lives. From wars fought either for oil (which I 
disagree) or against the mass murdering tyrants who got rich off the 
sale of that oil (how could you disagree with deposing a murderer?), to 
auto accidents and plane accidents which kill thousands (millions 
worldwide?) every year.

Do the car manufacturers foot the bill for the deadly product they've 
sold us? No, by the LAW - we do.

Taking it back to computers, look at the guys who spend half their lives 
on their free software projects or who donate their software, music and 
movies to the public domain. Am I not belittling their efforts by paying 
  cash for something of equal or of lesser worth?

There are the justifications - but you say - if you don't like it, don't 
buy it. Now how the hell am I supposed to get along in this world - much 
less get a single job - without a car? Everyone else has one. It's not 
because of peer pressure I need one - it's only because I can't get from 
point A to point B without it and still keep up with my rent. Even 
taking the bus does not absolve me from using the oil/auto paradigm.

If everyone in your neighborhood was talking about the latest Hollywood 
movie they saw and your parents didn't have the money to send you to it 
- does that mean the movie's not worth seeing (now we're talking 
absolute worth, not relative worth)? And aren't we all really WORTHY?

Last example. We were promised 40 acres and a mule here in the US, yet 
we slave and live in little houses and don't have enough room in our 
back yards to grow our own fruit, vegetables and spices. Not only would 
it have been healthier for us to eat our own organics from our backyards 
that we alone were responsible for, it would give us something from 
nature itself, something we as people of this earth are entitled to. Now 
I must pay for every apple I eat with this currency which fluctuates in 
value due to the caprice of the rich (interest rates, inflation, all the 
lies that tell you your currency isn't worth as much as you bought it 
for - all the way down the line).

So we pay for all theses things which are not our fault and which keep 
the rich in power merely to stay afloat. If we didn't play their game 
we'd be drifting alone in the ocean... ie homeless and jobless.

This isn't conspiracy theory, this is plain economics.

So now they inadvertently give us a little more than they bargained for 
(or any of us did). For $40 a month I get a virtual 40 acres and an eMule.

And you wonder why Margaret Sanger and the Twisted Six of our lofty 
Imperial Judiciary felt justified sticking their iron claws in our 
mothers wombs. They act like they're giving you something you didn't 
have before (sex ed, liberation, license) and with the other hand they 
take away - work till you drop job detail, no money, and greatest of all 
- license, absolution, convenience when it comes to murdering your own 
flesh and blood.

So no, I do believe this situation with stealing and murder are two 
different things. When I say there are moral absolutes, I mean just 
that. Killing in self defense is not murder. Taking food to feed your 
family is not stealing.

By the same token, claiming ownership of land and property has always 
and will always be completely arbitrary.

Buckminster Fuller, who was a patent freak, addresses the history of 
piracy in his book "Operating Manual For Spaceship Earth." In it he lays 
out his theory that The Great Pirates were the founders of our modern 
universities. These pirates, unlike military fleets, roamed the waters 
and plundered from coast to coast. They amassed great wealth and when it 
came time to pass their knowledge along, they set up the universities 
with their specialized sciences to do the 'manual' labor, while they 
enjoyed a life of wealth and leisure.

Now it was important they set up the schools to focus on narrow subjects 
to keep them in the so called saddle, with the blinders on YOU.

Now science was not always like that. Science started back with 
Aristotle, renewed and expanded with St Thomas Aquanis and into the so 
called Enlightenment which was really the fall from the heights of 
Galileo and Newton.

Modern science is narrowly math based (emperiometric), which means it 
only attempts to account rationally for it's conclusions when pressed. 
This avoids ontology (the study of being as being) and allows MODERN 
science to make grand claims - from going backwards and forwards in time 
to the idea that time and space are the same. They use their mathematics 
as an end in itself which traps them within their own minds and allows 
them to forget the universe, much less the human race, is not some 
homogeneous mathematical mixing bowl but a real thing.

I cannot vouch for R. Buckminster Fuller's interpretation of history, 
nor Anthony Rizzi's ("The Science Before Science") only to say they are 
very revealing and Mr Rizzi's book centers on truth as it is and less on 
historical conjecture.

To be able to steal in the first place requires the item stolen to have 
value in the first place. Hard liners will say "Aha! Moral Relativist!"

Since everything on your property is yours and I take an apple from your 
tree, I may have to pay a fine for the worth of the apple. What is an 
apple really worth? It depends on your situation. More to some, less to 
others. So, in deciding how much money to fine you - because it's worth 
more to you - do I fine you more? Because it's worth less to you - do I 
fine you less?

Maybe because it's worth more to you, I fine you less and vice versa.

So where's the justice. Why not just fine them both 5 cents?

How long does it take you to earn 5 cents? If you don't have a job, it 
may take you a long time. If you have a steady job or inheritance, it 
may  be in your pocket right now.

Is it right to just say "So what, stealing is stealing. Charge them both 
5 cents and have done with it."

That doesn't address the problem, does it? The problem is reckoning 
worth, the true value of something. That's how murder happens in the 
first place. The true value of something (human life) was taken for 
granted or not considered at all.

Greater than
Less than
Equal to

Greater than - bargain
Less than - stealing
Equal to - lemonade!

Hope you can follow. When something is worth more than what you paid - 
it's a bargin. When something is worth less than what you paid - it's a 
rip off (in other words, stealing from you the buyer). Equal to means 
complete satisfaction with nothing left over.

That's the math. That's the so called economics. Then how can people 
charge $20,000 for a car when the damage to the environment and possibly 
yourself and others may be incalculable? The price is a rationalization 
of relative worth which is a factor of culturaly relativistic climate. 
In our current age, this is where the morals end and the buck stops.

Is it stealing? Of course it is. We all know stealing is wrong but, 
because we don't follow the money and don't hold others accountable OR 
because we were never taught or never believed that there is an up and 
there is a down, we've come to a point where the hoplessly immoral has 
gained the status of 'morally accepted'. Just because their stealing is 
called right and your procurement of artifacts brands you a criminal 
does not mean the true morality of the situation has changed a penny.

It is aparent the system is morally bankrupt when these outrageous 
catastrophies can happen all around us everyday and 50% of the 
population is at the throats of the other 50%.

Something has to give. Quite literally.

So give it up.


Christian

--
It's revealing. How bout for a joke you put a a pair of forceps and a 
coat hanger in a box as a do-it-yourself abortion kit?
I mean - what's the difference? Or maybe buy a whiffle ball bat with a 
sign that says - "worlds safest abortion technique".

It's a sham. These women would be safer kicking each other in the 
stomach than allowing these  masochistic misogynist pricks to shove 
their razor tipped suction hosed dildos in them  - to get even with a 
defenseless and harmless little baby for God's sake!
--

JUDICIAL MURDER

"This week, on March 18, Terri Schindler Schiavo is slated to be
killed by starvation as ordered by Florida Circuit Judge George Greer.
If she dies, her death will be due--in large part--to the failure of
Florida executive officers, legislators, and judges to act in
ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW, both constitutionally and statutorily.

http://www.renewamerica.us/forum

--

  Scientists to make 'Stuart Little' mouse with the brain of a human
By James Langton in New York
(Filed: 06/03/2005)

"In the next stage they plan to use stem cells from aborted foetuses  to 
create an animal whose brain cells are 100 per cent human."

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/03/06/wmouse06.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/03/06/ixnewstop.html

http://tinyurl.com/4ez9u










































> 
> 
> Oldbitcollector
>  
> 
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Christian Lott" wrote ...
>
> Let's look at other cases where the price you paid for the product was
> nowhere near what it was worth. Cars. Aside from the pollution they
> cause - smog, oil spills, salvage yards and clogging dumps - they also
> extract a price in human lives. From wars fought either for oil (which I
> disagree) or against the mass murdering tyrants who got rich off the
> sale of that oil (how could you disagree with deposing a murderer?), to
> auto accidents and plane accidents which kill thousands (millions
> worldwide?) every year.

I spent most of my working life building airplanes that were designed
primarily to drop bombs on people, tanks, and whatever else might be of value
(real or perceived) to an enemy.  Those birds of war were used to bomb enemy
troops from Vietnam to Iraq, and a few places in between.

When I was building them, I knew what their intended purpose was.  Do I feel
guilty?  No.  As a matter of fact, I had a feeling of pride when I heard that
some of our birds had flown a sortie over North Vietnam.

Do I think it wrong to pirate software, movies, or music?  *IF* the item in
question is still in publication, yes, it is wrong.  If the item in question
is no longer published, no, it is not wrong (at least from a moral standpoint
rather than a legal one).
-- 
Best regards,

Sam Gillett

Change is inevitable,
except from vending machines!

Sam Gillett wrote:

> Do I think it wrong to pirate software, movies, or music?  *IF* the item in
> question is still in publication, yes, it is wrong.  If the item in question
> is no longer published, no, it is not wrong (at least from a moral standpoint
> rather than a legal one).

I basically believe the same thing. I just think it's necessary and 
relevant to dissect where our money is being funneled at each stage of 
every purchase.

If I'm selling guns, common thought is that if you pass the test and 
have no criminal record you're good to go.

But for most items you don't know what kind of people are buying from 
you, and when you buy from others you don't know to what use they'll put 
that money to.

Like the musicians I find out who are pro abortion or the companies like 
ATT, Verizon, Bell South, SBC and Sprint *matching* employee 
contributions to Planned Parenthood, you've got to wonder - who's 
stealing from who?

http://www.sienna-group.com/

Legally we'll never recoup the loss. But being honest - there is a 
difference between perceived value and real value at all stages.

If it really is my money, why don't I have full control over where it 
goes and who it supports?

If it makes anyone feel better I just read some news that says they're 
down to one (1) abortion mill in the entire state of Mississippi.

http://tinyurl.com/6drr2

There's too great a chance in throwing your money away to evil, and I 
don't care what they're selling.

I recently went out to see a few movies. Both of them were horrible and 
a waste of time and money. Both, though it wasn't apparent what their 
real agenda was from the ads, were to my taste morally corrupt.

And this is the trash we were all brought up on and which has brain 
washed us all through the years into complacency.

One last thing.

I was playing a game in front of the computer yesterday and was 
wondering what the point of the game was. Of course the point of the 
game is to win.

Yet within the game, just playing it over and over, you become skilled 
at it. Like a programmer becomes more skilled and makes the game, the 
player becomes more skilled at the game. So two separate levels, each 
acquiring more skill. Yet what was the point in making the game? What 
was the reason the player is playing the game? To win? Win what?

See, I know everything is a game. Yet some games, like video games and 
such just chase their tails (tale). There is no win. In life there are 
separate wins and truth to be guarded, protected and fought for.

I suppose games and stories give an aspect of history and center the 
mind around certain ideas. There is no win for the game as a game 
though. If there was a real win then it wouldn't be a real game - it 
would be a serious fight...

So when you win a game, it's trivial. When you win a real fight, that's 
something serious.

Christian

I think I finally found the words for it, and I'm just reiterating what 
Buckminster Fuller is saying in the book I cited earlier.

There is no cost of living. Having a cost of living supposes there's a 
price on your head. I ran into this again looking over an insurance text 
years ago. It was "the human life value concept."

What we see here, because our current economy is complete fiction, is 
that anyone selling anything nowadays is just a pirate of another pirate.

The apple you buy. You can't buy the apple, that's from the ground. You 
can't own the ground because that's not yours.

The good pirate knows how to take the cheap goods from one part of the 
world and sell it to the other part of the world. He knows how to keep 
his company going and keep his would be competitors in check by working 
them to death and teaching them only what HE needs them to know.

That's what happens right now. They rush you through school because you 
don't REALLY need to know what they're teaching you. What you really 
need to be is a good lab rat. A specialist slave who can't tell what his 
bosses are up to. That would spoil their secret. This is the whole 
reason for the slow and staggered growth in technology and all the waste.

There aren't enough thinkers who can put together broad ranges of 
information across many fields. There are simply too many specialists.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

The goal is to NOT have a job. The goal is to NOT put people to work. 
Yep. Just allow them to eat and sleep and go where they please for free.

That's what automation is all about. You will eventually create your own 
job or task as you see fit in your own good time because YOU want to. 
Nobody dictating to you, nobody ruling over you.

That's the miracle of invention. Say you have a thousand workers all 
doing the same thing. It only takes one man with enough time and enough 
knowledge to invent the machine which will automate the job for all of you.

So it is much better to have people lazing about thinking than making 
them work.

Why do people go crazy and snap? Why do people steal?

They are driven crazy by pressure.

End their slavery and you have a more peaceful people.

People don't want to kill people, women don't want to kill their babies. 
They are under extreme pressure.

The covetous misers who sit on the decades toil of millions are the 
covetous misers who are the true thieves. Pyramid schemes.

http://members.cox.net/c65/pharaoh.ogg



Christian

"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
news:pCNZd.64311$SF.27640@lakeread08...
> I think I finally found the words for it, and I'm just reiterating what
> Buckminster Fuller is saying in the book I cited earlier.
>
> There is no cost of living. Having a cost of living supposes there's a
> price on your head. I ran into this again looking over an insurance text
> years ago. It was "the human life value concept."
>
> What we see here, because our current economy is complete fiction, is
> that anyone selling anything nowadays is just a pirate of another pirate.
>
> The apple you buy. You can't buy the apple, that's from the ground. You
> can't own the ground because that's not yours.
>
> The good pirate knows how to take the cheap goods from one part of the
> world and sell it to the other part of the world. He knows how to keep
> his company going and keep his would be competitors in check by working
> them to death and teaching them only what HE needs them to know.
>
> That's what happens right now. They rush you through school because you
> don't REALLY need to know what they're teaching you. What you really
> need to be is a good lab rat. A specialist slave who can't tell what his
> bosses are up to. That would spoil their secret. This is the whole
> reason for the slow and staggered growth in technology and all the waste.
>
> There aren't enough thinkers who can put together broad ranges of
> information across many fields. There are simply too many specialists.
>
> Now here is where it gets interesting.
>
> The goal is to NOT have a job. The goal is to NOT put people to work.
> Yep. Just allow them to eat and sleep and go where they please for free.
>
> That's what automation is all about. You will eventually create your own
> job or task as you see fit in your own good time because YOU want to.
> Nobody dictating to you, nobody ruling over you.
>
> That's the miracle of invention. Say you have a thousand workers all
> doing the same thing. It only takes one man with enough time and enough
> knowledge to invent the machine which will automate the job for all of
you.
>
> So it is much better to have people lazing about thinking than making
> them work.
>
> Why do people go crazy and snap? Why do people steal?
>
> They are driven crazy by pressure.
>
> End their slavery and you have a more peaceful people.
>
> People don't want to kill people, women don't want to kill their babies.
> They are under extreme pressure.
>
> The covetous misers who sit on the decades toil of millions are the
> covetous misers who are the true thieves. Pyramid schemes.
>
> http://members.cox.net/c65/pharaoh.ogg
>

You spout more nonsense then Rick.

Clockmeister wrote:

> You spout more nonsense then Rick.

Good answer dimwit. If you think it's nonsense, come up with something 
better. While you're at it, reinvent the geodesic dome, Bucky balls and 
the half million other patents of R. Buckminster Fuller since you're 
such the genius. Sam was right, you're smarter than Einstein.

You remind me of the pig heads at this site I just wrote a letter to 
(talk about suffrage toyed):

Life and Liberty For Women

http://www.lifeandlibertyforwomen.org/truth_about_photos.html

[What about Life and Liberty FOR CHILDREN (let alone the fathers of 
those children)]

To info@LifeAndLibertyForWomen.org:

I know women don't want to kill their children. I'm a father of children 
my ex girlfriend murdered despite my pleas.

She regretted it. Those babies weren't peanuts, they were 3.5 months, 
stabbed to death with a razor tipped suction hose.
The abortionist told her there was more than one baby in there as he was 
'getting them out'.

I know the pressure and responsibility is so great these women just break.

I blame the system for making social pressure such that it's almost 
impossible for a woman put in that situation to say no. I think of it 
like if heroin or cyanide caplets were sold over the counter.

I just wanted to give you my compassion and consideration before I told 
you what lousy worthless no good baby murdering bitches you were. So 
fuck you, you worthless motherfucker.

Sincerely,

Christian

"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
news:OZPZd.65011$SF.63963@lakeread08...
> Clockmeister wrote:
>
> > You spout more nonsense then Rick.
>
> Good answer dimwit. If you think it's nonsense, come up with something
> better.

Hey shit for brains, It's off-topic in this forum and less relevant then
anything Rick has ever posted.

If you want to discuss that nonsense take it to a relevant forum.

Clockmeister wrote:
> "Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:OZPZd.65011$SF.63963@lakeread08...
>>Clockmeister wrote:
>>>You spout more nonsense then Rick.
>>Good answer dimwit. If you think it's nonsense, come up with something
>>better.
> Hey shit for brains, It's off-topic in this forum and less relevant then
> anything Rick has ever posted.
> If you want to discuss that nonsense take it to a relevant forum.


Automation and computers and patents (ownership) and the future have 
nothing to do with comp.sys.cbm?

Hey shit for brains, stop trolling and find something else to read if 
you don't like it.

Christian

PS. You're music attempt was childish. No class, cloc.

I'm not talking about the effort to put it together.

Why didn't you just call him retarded and have done with it?

Is that what I need to do to get YOU to shut up? Just say:

duhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduh

while you're talking?

? Real funny moron. No class, man. N O  C L A S S.

>>>>> "C" == Clockmeister  <no-one@nowhere.com> writes:

C> You spout more nonsense then Rick.

Yes he does, so please just killfile him, and don't quote his messages
when replying. He's just an attention seeking crackpot.

-- 
    ___          .     .  .         .       . +  .         .      o   
  _|___|_   +   .  +     .     +         .  Per Olofsson, arkadspelare
    o-o    .      .     .   o         +          MagerValp@cling.gu.se
     -       +            +    .     http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/

"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
news:gNRZd.65012$SF.21966@lakeread08...
> Clockmeister wrote:
> > "Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:OZPZd.65011$SF.63963@lakeread08...
> >>Clockmeister wrote:
> >>>You spout more nonsense then Rick.
> >>Good answer dimwit. If you think it's nonsense, come up with something
> >>better.
> > Hey shit for brains, It's off-topic in this forum and less relevant then
> > anything Rick has ever posted.
> > If you want to discuss that nonsense take it to a relevant forum.
>
>
> Automation and computers and patents (ownership) and the future have
> nothing to do with comp.sys.cbm?
>
> Hey shit for brains, stop trolling and find something else to read if
> you don't like it.
>
> Christian
>
> PS. You're music attempt was childish. No class, cloc.
>
> I'm not talking about the effort to put it together.
>
> Why didn't you just call him retarded and have done with it?
>
> Is that what I need to do to get YOU to shut up? Just say:
>
> duhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduh
>
> while you're talking?
>
> ? Real funny moron. No class, man. N O  C L A S S.
>

And you think that shit you put together is classy?

FFS, I spent two minutes editing some samples, if you spend anymore then
that on that shit you make you should be looking for something better to do
with your time.

"MagerValp" <MagerValp@cling.gu.se> wrote in message
news:p14hdjcdll4.fsf@panini.cling.gu.se...
> >>>>> "C" == Clockmeister  <no-one@nowhere.com> writes:
>
> C> You spout more nonsense then Rick.
>
> Yes he does, so please just killfile him, and don't quote his messages
> when replying. He's just an attention seeking crackpot.
>

Yes, though I don't believe in killfiling but I will make more effort to
snip in future.

"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
news:gNRZd.65012$SF.21966@lakeread08...
> Clockmeister wrote:
> > "Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:OZPZd.65011$SF.63963@lakeread08...
> >>Clockmeister wrote:
> >>>You spout more nonsense then Rick.
> >>Good answer dimwit. If you think it's nonsense, come up with something
> >>better.
> > Hey shit for brains, It's off-topic in this forum and less relevant then
> > anything Rick has ever posted.
> > If you want to discuss that nonsense take it to a relevant forum.
>
>
> Automation and computers and patents (ownership) and the future have
> nothing to do with comp.sys.cbm?
>
> Hey shit for brains, stop trolling and find something else to read if
> you don't like it.
>
> Christian
>
> PS. You're music attempt was childish. No class, cloc.
>
> I'm not talking about the effort to put it together.
>
> Why didn't you just call him retarded and have done with it?
>
> Is that what I need to do to get YOU to shut up? Just say:
>
> duhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhduh
>
> while you're talking?

That wasn't me talking, it was my Amiga.

Clockmeister <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, though I don't believe in killfiling but I will make more effort to
> snip in future.
> 
Please do, I don't really want to read all those off topic posts and 
posts offensive to common sense. I only know how to filter by author for 
this news reader. So please try.

-- 

Wing.

"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:4237c2ef@duster.adelaide.on.net...

| You spout more nonsense then Rick.


Heck I'd go as far as to say I'd be happy to engage in conversation with
Rick anyday over this 'thing' called lott.  At least he has made the effort
to step back a little and take a look at how he has approaches threads
lately, and appears to have taken on board some of our rather aggressive
attacks (I know some of mine were paramount to evil) and is making the
effort.  Well done Rick.

But as for Mr Lott .. I'm truly amazed.  He actually inspires evil in me ..

I think I will take the advice of MV.  Time to killfile this self righteous,
attention seeking, lonely little man ....

Bye bye Mr Lost.

Anthony Hoffmann wrote:

> Bye bye Mr Lost.


Thank God. I've had enough of your BS too.

Hey, I can say it now without Hoffman attacking me!

GodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGod

Now all I need is pope clocster to do the same.

MCP of CSC (not to be confused with max of mad of max of mad of max of mad)

Christian

> Please do, I don't really want to read all those off topic posts and 
> posts offensive to common sense. I only know how to filter by author for
> this news reader. So please try.

judging by the gaps in this thread it looks like someone is whining
again .
it dosn't matter what the subject under discussion is he'll always start
whining on about how badly life has treated him etc ,
take away his keyboard and he'll turn into one of those people pushing a
shopping trolley around talking to parking meters .

i suspect that a few people here have been through things that would've
made him curl up in a corner in a catatonic state  ( if only ) but they
realise that C.S.C  is neither time nor place for such things .

we all know how bad you feel ~ why not go on jerry springer or some such
show ~ then they can produce your ex girlfriend from behind the scenery
to reveal she's,
1/ a drill instructor with the  marines ,
2/ changed sex ,
3 / was a man all the time ,
4 / became a nun,
5 / became a devil worshipper ,
6 / inmate at san quentin prison ,
7/ working as a george bush look-a-like ,

just thought does his ex girlfriend know that he still whines on about
her ? ,
( i doubt that he's got a girlfriend now ~ after all what else does he
ever talk about than his favourite subect ) 
 

"Christian Lott" <c65@cox.net> wrote in message
news:LOl_d.66489$SF.17380@lakeread08...
> Anthony Hoffmann wrote:
>
> > Bye bye Mr Lost.
>
>
> Thank God. I've had enough of your BS too.
>
> Hey, I can say it now without Hoffman attacking me!
>
> GodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGodGod
>
> Now all I need is pope clocster to do the same.
>
> MCP of CSC (not to be confused with max of mad of max of mad of max of
mad)
>

Take your meds Christian, you are losing it.

Look, when I first came to this group you seemed fairly normal in that 
you were flaming Wildstar for being a troll, which he definitely was at 
the time.

Then that progressed into an obsession that bordered on trolling itself, 
the whole commodork and making sound samples bit.

Now it seems you've gone completely off the rails, taking threads way 
off topic with wacky discussions on whatever comes to your mind.

Take a good look at what you're doing, because right now you're being 
seen as more of a troll than the troll you were trolling was.

Take a break.

Cheers,

Damian

Damian Caynes wrote:
> Look, when I first came to this group you seemed fairly normal in that 
> you were flaming Wildstar for being a troll, which he definitely was at 
> the time.

I only really got mad at wildstar because when I went off topic, he 
began reprimanding ME. Of all people, he should have been the last one 
to. I don't care if he rambles. It's kind of funny and interesting and 
when it's stupid, I just stop reading. At least I have the awareness to 
stop reading something when I become uninterested. That's more than I 
can say for some of you.

The last straw was when wildass killfiled me after I'd made a political 
comment off of SOMEONE ELSES political comment (ie I didn't start it, 
but I wasn't going to let it go unchecked).

So that's when I said enough. Any comment I made and sound file I put 
together wasn't to mean I hated him, it was more for me and to get my 
anger out after his hypocrisy.

Anyway, now you know. So whatever.

BTW, I like the modified heading. Clever.

Christian

=This has been a message from the MCP of CSC=
=Do not respond unless you wish to involve yourself in open 
characterization=
=Once we get to know who you are, you will no longer have any rights=
=So stay impersonal, behave like a geeky primodona and do not call 
attention to yourself=
=Friends are not made with conversation, they are made with cash=
=That is all.=
+The Master Control Program of Comp.Sys.Cbm+
+++++++++++++Poster Beware++++++++++++++++++
beepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeep

Christian,

Up until this thread I at least could see you as someone with a moral
compass, but now I see that you are actually direction less and clinging
to what few threads of hope you can find to maintain your reality.  You
are not unique in this regards.  Most people go through this during
their lives.  Some figure things out quicker than others.

Stealing is stealing.  Robin Hood was a thief who choose to do good with
his bounty, but he was a thief none-the-less.  You say that Bill Gates
hasn't done anything with his money, but that is simply a lie.  Gates is
the world's most prolific philanthropist.  Gates created the
technological and economic environment in the computer industry to allow
us to be enjoying the fruits of the information age.  Yes, other people
were involved, and a few even had major roles, but no one, and I mean
no one, has had as important an impact on society's embrace of
technology, ever.

You argued that a man had the audacity to charge as much for a movie he
made as it costs for you to feed your family.  Great.  I bet he has a
family to feed as well!  If he did not have some need for money, either
real or imagined, then I imagine he would make the video available for
free.

I think you have a misguided belief that fair and equitable are mutually
compatible and that everyone should try to embody both of those things.
The reality is that they are diametrically opposed.  You cannot be both
fair and equitable, it simply cannot be done.  Is it fair when a
mentally impaired person is jailed for a crime they cannot understand
they committed?  Of course not, but it would be equitable because a
normal person must be punished.  Fairness dictates that in such cases
that a person cannot understand their actions that they cannot be held
accountable for their actions.  This is not equitable to the normal
person.  But life is never completely fair nor completely equitable,
they are simply the two forces of a closed system that is perpetually in
motion within each society.

Thanks for the letter Payton.

I don't have a monopoly on moral compasses. I do try to do the right 
thing and I know there is more than one, two or even three sides to 
every story. Some cases are more clear than others.

I am aware of Mr Gates philanthropy. I have also heard of some of the 
more shady business practices he's been accused of.

If you believe the law system is just a game which can be hacked, that 
it's not a reflection of the morals and values of our country, then you 
probably would have no problem engaging in unscrupulous business activity.

I agree that it's important to figure this one out (buying, selling, 
stealing), but by 'this one' I am not confining myself to one instance 
(Mr Hanie's video) as you know.

I didn't say other people don't have families to feed, I said that the 
semi divine pyramid scheme prevents competition, unfairly awards the top 
man for less and less and creates more problems than any kind of 
philanthropy can solve.

If you were paying attention, you would know that this was the exact 
same business practice which gave Mr Haynie the shaft in the first place.

I'm not a communist. I believe in a competitive market place.

These companies get so big there's no way they can deal with each other 
except on a robotic impersonal level.

The current rules system at play in the US I feel drowns out more 
competition than it helps. The rules of this game are backwards.

When I made the statement about the cost of a movie, I was making a 
statement about relative pricing on a global level (at least, that is 
what I meant and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough).

I don't have any short and sweet one phrase answers for this as I do for 
when people slaughter innocent children. I think there's more involved. 
(It also doesn't help when the main reason women cite for having an 
abortion is that they can't afford another baby. That is never a good 
enough excuse, but coupled with abortions current legality makes for a 
brutal trap in an emotional time and the overall demeanor of a callous 
society. Why would you want to bring a child here in the first place 
when things appear so grim and unaffected?)

On the other hand, I was attempting to put these discrepancies in line 
with an objective end goal - to nullify the 'cost of living' through 
automation.

This objective has been reached here in the US to a certain extent. 
There are homeless people only because they hate living in the homeless 
shelters. All of them are fed well.

Back to eMule.

I don't see the harm in it. There were people where I used to work who 
always had pirated movies on sale. They were still too expensive for me.

These guys don't make much anyway. Are you going to begrudge them a few 
peanuts? eMule can also be looked at as a free preview channel.

I'll take an absolute stand on abortion. I'm not going to take an 
absolute stand on pirating digital media, not because 'everybody's doing 
it' but because it's overall impact may do more good than harm. Good for 
the small timers and bad to the bloated amoral, hedonistic Hollywood 
studios who get rich off the special effects of big money and who spread 
their skewed versions of history and reality on the ignorant public.

To wrap up. All the money Gates has was not made from the sweat of his 
own brow but from the tireless human machine he configured. Call him a 
genius, I call him a moron. He's about as smart on the humanitarian 
level as were any of the pharaohs.

Amass all the wealth you want, it just drains the life blood from your 
workers. Belated (or parallel) philanthropy is just icing on shit.

If I work night and day for you for 10 years and haven't had much of a 
chance to spend time with my family, then you give a million dollars to 
a children's fund -WTF! My children are important too. As far as I can 
see you took that money from me and lavished it on your own concerns 
which gave you the spotlight of 'generous philanthropist' and me the 
wrong end of the stick. The best philanthropy Gates can do would be to 
level the playing field in his own company by slicing off all the 
pyramid percentages and letting the people keep their hard earned money 
to begin with.

I'm sure you're aware the government spends billions of our tax dollars 
on things which are counter to your own interests. It's called pork 
barrel spending and it's just like these mega corporation's pyramids.

That is not democracy, my friend. That IS communism.


Christian





Payton Byrd wrote:
> Christian,
> 
> Up until this thread I at least could see you as someone with a moral
> compass, but now I see that you are actually direction less and clinging
> to what few threads of hope you can find to maintain your reality.  You
> are not unique in this regards.  Most people go through this during
> their lives.  Some figure things out quicker than others.
> 
> Stealing is stealing.  Robin Hood was a thief who choose to do good with
> his bounty, but he was a thief none-the-less.  You say that Bill Gates
> hasn't done anything with his money, but that is simply a lie.  Gates is
> the world's most prolific philanthropist.  Gates created the
> technological and economic environment in the computer industry to allow
> us to be enjoying the fruits of the information age.  Yes, other people
> were involved, and a few even had major roles, but no one, and I mean
> no one, has had as important an impact on society's embrace of
> technology, ever.
> 
> You argued that a man had the audacity to charge as much for a movie he
> made as it costs for you to feed your family.  Great.  I bet he has a
> family to feed as well!  If he did not have some need for money, either
> real or imagined, then I imagine he would make the video available for
> free.
> 
> I think you have a misguided belief that fair and equitable are mutually
> compatible and that everyone should try to embody both of those things.
> The reality is that they are diametrically opposed.  You cannot be both
> fair and equitable, it simply cannot be done.  Is it fair when a
> mentally impaired person is jailed for a crime they cannot understand
> they committed?  Of course not, but it would be equitable because a
> normal person must be punished.  Fairness dictates that in such cases
> that a person cannot understand their actions that they cannot be held
> accountable for their actions.  This is not equitable to the normal
> person.  But life is never completely fair nor completely equitable,
> they are simply the two forces of a closed system that is perpetually in
> motion within each society.
> 
> 
> 

Christian Lott wrote:

> Thanks for the letter Payton.
>
> I don't have a monopoly on moral compasses. I do try to do the right 
> thing and I know there is more than one, two or even three sides to 
> every story. Some cases are more clear than others.
>
> I am aware of Mr Gates philanthropy. I have also heard of some of the 
> more shady business practices he's been accused of.
>
> If you believe the law system is just a game which can be hacked, that 
> it's not a reflection of the morals and values of our country, then 
> you probably would have no problem engaging in unscrupulous business 
> activity.
>
> I agree that it's important to figure this one out (buying, selling, 
> stealing), but by 'this one' I am not confining myself to one instance 
> (Mr Hanie's video) as you know.
>
> I didn't say other people don't have families to feed, I said that the 
> semi divine pyramid scheme prevents competition, unfairly awards the 
> top man for less and less and creates more problems than any kind of 
> philanthropy can solve.
>
> If you were paying attention, you would know that this was the exact 
> same business practice which gave Mr Haynie the shaft in the first place.
>
> I'm not a communist. I believe in a competitive market place.
>
> These companies get so big there's no way they can deal with each 
> other except on a robotic impersonal level.
>
> The current rules system at play in the US I feel drowns out more 
> competition than it helps. The rules of this game are backwards.
>
> When I made the statement about the cost of a movie, I was making a 
> statement about relative pricing on a global level (at least, that is 
> what I meant and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough).
>
> I don't have any short and sweet one phrase answers for this as I do 
> for when people slaughter innocent children. I think there's more 
> involved. (It also doesn't help when the main reason women cite for 
> having an abortion is that they can't afford another baby. That is 
> never a good enough excuse, but coupled with abortions current 
> legality makes for a brutal trap in an emotional time and the overall 
> demeanor of a callous society. Why would you want to bring a child 
> here in the first place when things appear so grim and unaffected?)
>
> On the other hand, I was attempting to put these discrepancies in line 
> with an objective end goal - to nullify the 'cost of living' through 
> automation.
>
> This objective has been reached here in the US to a certain extent. 
> There are homeless people only because they hate living in the 
> homeless shelters. All of them are fed well.
>
> Back to eMule.
>
> I don't see the harm in it. There were people where I used to work who 
> always had pirated movies on sale. They were still too expensive for me.
>
> These guys don't make much anyway. Are you going to begrudge them a 
> few peanuts? eMule can also be looked at as a free preview channel.
>
> I'll take an absolute stand on abortion. I'm not going to take an 
> absolute stand on pirating digital media, not because 'everybody's 
> doing it' but because it's overall impact may do more good than harm. 
> Good for the small timers and bad to the bloated amoral, hedonistic 
> Hollywood studios who get rich off the special effects of big money 
> and who spread their skewed versions of history and reality on the 
> ignorant public.
>
> To wrap up. All the money Gates has was not made from the sweat of his 
> own brow but from the tireless human machine he configured. Call him a 
> genius, I call him a moron. He's about as smart on the humanitarian 
> level as were any of the pharaohs.
>
> Amass all the wealth you want, it just drains the life blood from your 
> workers. Belated (or parallel) philanthropy is just icing on shit.
>
> If I work night and day for you for 10 years and haven't had much of a 
> chance to spend time with my family, then you give a million dollars 
> to a children's fund -WTF! My children are important too. As far as I 
> can see you took that money from me and lavished it on your own 
> concerns which gave you the spotlight of 'generous philanthropist' and 
> me the wrong end of the stick. The best philanthropy Gates can do 
> would be to level the playing field in his own company by slicing off 
> all the pyramid percentages and letting the people keep their hard 
> earned money to begin with.
>
> I'm sure you're aware the government spends billions of our tax 
> dollars on things which are counter to your own interests. It's called 
> pork barrel spending and it's just like these mega corporation's 
> pyramids.
>
> That is not democracy, my friend. That IS communism.
>
>
> Christian
>
>
To sum up (countering each point would be pointless), you are saying 
because capitalism has worked so well that we have mega-companies that 
our country has become communist.  The premise of everything you say is 
that noone can become a true success because of the mega-companies, 
abortion and pork-barrel spending.  I know abortion is a big topic for 
you and that you truly abhor its practice, as do many others in this 
group, but it is not germain to the topic of whether or not people who 
create a work of science, technology, or art has the right to profit 
from such works.

The society you are proposing where the poor take from the rich to 
redistribute wealth equitably is the very core of communism.  Every 
society that has ever been founded on such principles fails in the long 
term because once there are no more wealthy people or companies then the 
poor begin to canabalize their own economic position and eventually 
there is no more fuel for the economy.  It's the complete inverse of 
capitalism where the poor and rich alike attempt to become wealthier by 
adding value to the economy, not trying to steal it from products that 
never get an opportunity to build any intrinsic value.  In communisim, 
eventually all products reach a near-infinite price as the financial 
reward for production can never realize as a positive sum and thus the 
entire economy is always in deficit, thus sending inflation through the 
roof.  This is what killed the Soviet Union and will eventually kill 
China if the state does not completely capitalize their economy to the 
citizenry.

I think you are confusing political systems and economic systems.  You 
can have a communist demacracy.  You can have a socialist demacracy.  
You can even have a capitalist demacracy.  Demacracy is simply the 
ability of the people to vote to create the laws of the land.  A 
Republic is the ability of the people to elect representatives who in 
turn create the laws of the land.  A dictatorship is where a 
self-imposed ruler or party sets the laws of the land.  Almost all 
countries in the world are some form of republic.  I do not know of a 
single demacracy.  Even in the USA where a few states allow the voters 
to directly vote on specific ballot measures, most laws are still 
created by representatives.  Some political systems and economic systems 
converge to converge to feed off the bad features of each, such as 
Communist Dictatorships which are marked by the Dictators stealing from 
the limited resources of the Communist economy.  Some economies are a 
blend of different economic theories.  In the last 50 years Canada has 
become a Capitalist economy with Socialist leanings while England has 
become a Socialist economy still trying to hold on to some Capitalists 
beliefs.  China is a Communist economy that is moving towards a 
Capitalist economy.

To put this in perspective here's a list of countries and their current 
political and economic principles:

USA: Capitalist Republic
Canada: Capitalist/Socialist Republic
England: Socialist/Capitalist Republic
France: Socialist Republic
Germany: Socialist/Capitalist Republic
China: Communist/Capitalist Dictatorship
Iraq: Capitalist Republic (was a Communist Dictatorship prior to March 2003)
Saudi Arabia: Capitalist Dictatorship
Israel: Capitalist Republic

>
>
>
> Payton Byrd wrote:
>
>> Christian,
>>
>> Up until this thread I at least could see you as someone with a moral
>> compass, but now I see that you are actually direction less and clinging
>> to what few threads of hope you can find to maintain your reality.  You
>> are not unique in this regards.  Most people go through this during
>> their lives.  Some figure things out quicker than others.
>>
>> Stealing is stealing.  Robin Hood was a thief who choose to do good with
>> his bounty, but he was a thief none-the-less.  You say that Bill Gates
>> hasn't done anything with his money, but that is simply a lie.  Gates is
>> the world's most prolific philanthropist.  Gates created the
>> technological and economic environment in the computer industry to allow
>> us to be enjoying the fruits of the information age.  Yes, other people
>> were involved, and a few even had major roles, but no one, and I mean
>> no one, has had as important an impact on society's embrace of
>> technology, ever.
>>
>> You argued that a man had the audacity to charge as much for a movie he
>> made as it costs for you to feed your family.  Great.  I bet he has a
>> family to feed as well!  If he did not have some need for money, either
>> real or imagined, then I imagine he would make the video available for
>> free.
>>
>> I think you have a misguided belief that fair and equitable are mutually
>> compatible and that everyone should try to embody both of those things.
>> The reality is that they are diametrically opposed.  You cannot be both
>> fair and equitable, it simply cannot be done.  Is it fair when a
>> mentally impaired person is jailed for a crime they cannot understand
>> they committed?  Of course not, but it would be equitable because a
>> normal person must be punished.  Fairness dictates that in such cases
>> that a person cannot understand their actions that they cannot be held
>> accountable for their actions.  This is not equitable to the normal
>> person.  But life is never completely fair nor completely equitable,
>> they are simply the two forces of a closed system that is perpetually in
>> motion within each society.
>>
>>
>>


-- 
Payton Byrd
Homepage - http://www.paytonbyrd.com
Blog - http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/visualbasic/dotnet/
Store - http://stores.ebay.com/Collectible-Commodores-and-More

Payton Byrd wrote:
> To sum up (countering each point would be pointless),

Why, because you're not reading my statements, you're reading INTO them?

 > you are saying
> because capitalism has worked so well that we have mega-companies that 
> our country has become communist.

See. You read what you wanted into what I was saying. I said 
specifically that the pyramid schemes are what you would call Communist 
Dictatorships.

It is precisely BECAUSE the rules of the game in this country do not 
support capitalism that we are drifting toward these mini communist 
dictatorships within each mega corp.

I'm talking about changing the rules of the game for the mega corps to 
derail the pyramids and set a level playing field where competition is 
once more valuable and the talents of some of the players are rewarded 
more than others. This M$ monopoly has created an environment where 
viruses (viri) proliferate and the learning curve is too expensive for 
the average joe. Therefore less competition.

I don't understand why you can't see it. The biggest competition to M$, 
which is hardly any competition at all IS A FREE OPERATING SYSTEM.

Looks like a communist dictatorship to me. When I go into buy a computer 
anywhere you can be sure it will have M$ Win on it.

I'm not saying it's an unusable OS, I'm saying that given an ounce of 
fair competition (where average people could make money too), we would 
have all sorts of computers and operating systems to chose from. Just 
look how it was before the M$ PC.

Commodore, Atari, the CoCo, Oric, Speccy, Amstrad, the list goes on.

Now you have one homogeneous OS for everyone. Sound like the communist 
dream to you?

If it doesn't, you're kidding yourself. However you'd like to slant it, 
it's not what you say you are (capitalist), it's HOW things are (communist).

Getting back on the subject:

There is a fundamental difference with digital media. However much it 
cost to produce (hundreds of millions or just a moment of your 
individual time) it costs nothing to reproduce.

Make your money selling the CD and the box and the manual. All of these 
things cost money to reproduce.

You cannot compare digital media with chair manufacturing. It costs 
money to produce every single chair because it requires and has 
SUBSTANCE. Digital media can be copied back and forth without error 
between machines at no cost to the original producer whatsoever.

So you see, there is a big difference.

Now lets get back to the real - paying for something that actually costs 
money to reproduce, like the hardware, and stop bleeding all the money 
over to digital media which costs nothing to reproduce and must rely on 
federal law to prevent (gasp!) one friend copying another friends music 
or program.

It's REAL value as opposed to fictionalized.


>  The premise of everything you say is 
> that noone can become a true success because of the mega-companies, 
> abortion and pork-barrel spending.

Didn't say that. I said that those kinds of systems are at the heart of 
communism.


>  I know abortion is a big topic for 
> you and that you truly abhor its practice, as do many others in this 
> group, but it is not germain to the topic of whether or not people who 
> create a work of science, technology, or art has the right to profit 
> from such works.

Make all the scientific advances and art and whatever you want. But once 
you digitize it - don't go crying to the government when someone copies it.

I'm all for preserving the original authors integrity. If I pen a clever 
phrase or book and someone plagiarizes what I've written, a simple 
search on the internet will reveal the original author. That's very 
different then just copying music, movies or programs for your own 
personal use.


> The society you are proposing where the poor take from the rich to 
> redistribute wealth equitably is the very core of communism.

I'm saying that digital media IS NOT TRUE WEALTH *nor* should be treated 
as such. True wealth is food and shelter, not algorithmic formulas 
zipping through circuit boards as electrons, lighting up lights on a TV 
screen.

Education is valuable, but when does it stop being less about what you 
actually know and more about deceiving others into believing you know? 
When education becomes about the dollar and not about the truth. Truth 
is that version of the music or movie costs you nothing to reproduce, so 
is worth that much (ie books, movies, music, games are all education).

> USA: Capitalist Republic
> Canada: Capitalist/Socialist Republic
> England: Socialist/Capitalist Republic
> France: Socialist Republic
> Germany: Socialist/Capitalist Republic
> China: Communist/Capitalist Dictatorship
> Iraq: Capitalist Republic (was a Communist Dictatorship prior to March 
> 2003)
> Saudi Arabia: Capitalist Dictatorship
> Israel: Capitalist Republic

Thanks for the rundown. Did you type that from memory?

What say you, free digital media (and thus education) authored by those 
who are truly masters, or the same old money grubbing hypesters 
clamoring for attention with little true knowledge and a lot of mouth?


Christian

P.S. Last, let me thank all of you keeping the 'Commodore Losers' thread 
alive. You will truly always be losers in my book!

Christian Lott wrote:

> Looks like a communist dictatorship to me. When I go into buy a computer 
> anywhere you can be sure it will have M$ Win on it.

http://store.apple.com/
http://store.sun.com/

Well, maybe that's not "anywhere" in the end ;-)

> P.S. Last, let me thank all of you keeping the 'Commodore Losers' thread 
> alive. You will truly always be losers in my book!

I would be honored to gain that title. Just I am not sure if I should do 
something else to be sure I earned it?

silverdr wrote:
> Christian Lott wrote:
> 
>> Looks like a communist dictatorship to me. When I go into buy a 
>> computer anywhere you can be sure it will have M$ Win on it.
> 
> 
> http://store.apple.com/
> http://store.sun.com/
> 
> Well, maybe that's not "anywhere" in the end ;-)

You got me!


> 
>> P.S. Last, let me thank all of you keeping the 'Commodore Losers' 
>> thread alive. You will truly always be losers in my book!
> 
> 
> I would be honored to gain that title. Just I am not sure if I should do 
> something else to be sure I earned it?

Psst.. You need to post on the C= Losers thread to gain the honor. Yes, 
that title includes me because I started the thread, though I don't 
claim to be the biggest or the original.