I am new to the plus 4, i have just recived the my first one through the 
popst this morning.
I had to replace the fuse in the psu as there wasent one, powered up so i 
plugged an ae lead in and tuned the tv in but all i get is a black screen.
Now to the questions -
What can go wrong with them to cause a blank screen?
Any help would be greatful.

Regards

Graham 

Graham Prout wrote:

> What can go wrong with them to cause a blank screen?

CPU, TED, PLA, ROMs ...

Do you have another Plus4 or a C16 around?

Riccardo 

No, this is my first.
i only have c64 and a 128dcr.

Just checked the psu and ther is only one live pin out of the 4 and that is 
+5v i think that the +9v is dead so i could be the psu.

Graham

Any idea what u4 is as this one has a EL74LS08 whis has been use and dont 
look to good, but before i go out and get a replace ment i need to verifyu 
what commponent goes there.


Graham 

Graham Prout wrote:
> Any idea what u4 is as this one has a EL74LS08 whis has been use and
> dont look to good, but before i go out and get a replace ment i need
> to verifyu what commponent goes there.

Graham, I don't want to sound mean but...Do you ever read once what you 
write, before hitting that "send" button on your newsreader?

I really have hard times most of time trying to figure out what the hell you 
mean - and, even though I am no Shakespeare, I don't think it's a lack of 
English skills on my side.

Riccardo 

"Graham Prout" <graham.linux@ntlworld.com> writes:

>I am new to the plus 4, i have just recived the my first one through the 
>popst this morning.
>I had to replace the fuse in the psu as there wasent one, powered up so i 
>plugged an ae lead in and tuned the tv in but all i get is a black screen.
>Now to the questions -
>What can go wrong with them to cause a blank screen?
>Any help would be greatful.

Riccardo gave you a list of the common suspects, although in my world the
TED 7360/8360 was usually the culprit.

Does the power light come on?

--
      Cameron Kaiser * ckaiser@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
                personal page: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/
  ** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
                  ** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ **

Sorry for the mistakes just typing to fast.

the chip in question is U4 which in this +4 says 74SL08, but don't know 
whether this is correct plus i think that there is no 9v from the psu so i 
may need a replacement.



Graham 

"Graham Prout" <graham.linux@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:W1%Uc.188$sp6.108@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> I am new to the plus 4, i have just recived the my first one through the
> popst this morning.
> I had to replace the fuse in the psu as there wasent one, powered up so i
> plugged an ae lead in and tuned the tv in but all i get is a black screen.
> Now to the questions -
> What can go wrong with them to cause a blank screen?
> Any help would be greatful.
>
> Regards
>
> Graham
>
>

TED is usually the bad apple here... one thing you *might* want to try, is
super cooling the ted chip and see if it boots. I've tried this and booted
an otherwise dead machine (till the chip heats back up, but at least you'll
know the problem.).... a can of compressed air sprayed liberally against the
chip will do the trick to cool it waaay down.

Cameron Kaiser wrote:

> Riccardo gave you a list of the common suspects, although in my world
> the TED 7360/8360 was usually the culprit.

Well, from a statistical standpoint, I have to agree and side with you, 
Cameron.

I would like to add, though, that I have experienced all the other failures 
I mentioned, during my years of collecting Commodore stuff. In those cases, 
not always was the TED to blame - or solely to blame, for that matter.

Riccardo 

the ted chip is which chip u?
plus anyone know of anyone in the uk that repaires these computers.

Regards

Graham 

"Graham Prout" <graham.linux@ntlworld.com> writes:

>the ted chip is which chip u?

7360/8360. It may be under a Faraday cage (that's where it is in mine, and
probably has some heat sink goop on it). You can freely replace a 7360 with
an 8360 and vice versa, since they're both HMOS and have the same power
requirements and pinout.

--
      Cameron Kaiser * ckaiser@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
                personal page: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/
  ** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
                  ** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ **

"Graham Prout" <graham.linux@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:V%rVc.74$jr6.6@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
> Any idea were they can be sorced from.

Only from other CBM machines that use TED :(..

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Graham Prout wrote:

> Any idea were they can be sorced from.

The only known source is cannibalizing old TED-series machines (+4, 16, 
116).

This would be a great candidate for a VHDL/FPGA replacement.  I'd be 
willing to help out such an effort.  Does anyone have any good tech info 
on the TED chip?

Hi Graham,

Graham Prout wrote:

> Any idea were they can be sorced from.

I have one here, my C116 is more broken than I thought (and beyond 
repair, i.e. beyond my will to invest time) but the TED works in my +4. 
Where do you live? Maybe i can just mail it to you...

David

Any idea were they can be sorced from.

"Cameron Kaiser" <ckaiser@floodgap.com> wrote in message 
news:4125f61b$0$52521$45beb828@newscene.com...
> "Graham Prout" <graham.linux@ntlworld.com> writes:
>
>>the ted chip is which chip u?
>
> 7360/8360. It may be under a Faraday cage (that's where it is in mine, and
> probably has some heat sink goop on it). You can freely replace a 7360 
> with
> an 8360 and vice versa, since they're both HMOS and have the same power
> requirements and pinout.
>
> --
>      Cameron Kaiser * ckaiser@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
>                personal page: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/
>  ** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! 
> **
>                  ** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ ** 

I have measured the voltages from pin 1 and pin 4 to round pin 1 give 5v but 
there is nothing from pin4what should the voltage be, plus whats the voltage 
when its not on load straght from the psu pulg, i still get nothing but one 
of my 64 psus has 12v.

Regards


Graham 

"Dave Ross" <watsonc64@ten.tsacmoc> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0408201327080.11369@alice.local...
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Graham Prout wrote:
>
> > Any idea were they can be sorced from.
>
> The only known source is cannibalizing old TED-series machines (+4, 16,
> 116).

Whever this comes up, I wonder what one chain did with all the +4 / C16s
they had - I refer to a liquidator chain that had the acronym COMB... the
location here in town had 100 easy...

Dave

The 9V is AC - are you changing the voltmeter to the AC scale before you
measure?

AC is constantly changing polarity so the DC scale is useless.

Dave

"Graham Prout" <graham.linux@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:VYtVc.532$E3.45@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> I have measured the voltages from pin 1 and pin 4 to round pin 1 give 5v
but
> there is nothing from pin4what should the voltage be, plus whats the
voltage
> when its not on load straght from the psu pulg, i still get nothing but
one
> of my 64 psus has 12v.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Graham
>
>

OK thanks i will try it aND SEE

"Dave Dahle" <ddahle@sd.cybernex.net> wrote in message 
news:KvGdnajhrYHcnLrcRVn-vQ@prairiewave.com...
> The 9V is AC - are you changing the voltmeter to the AC scale before you
> measure?
>
> AC is constantly changing polarity so the DC scale is useless.
>
> Dave
>
> "Graham Prout" <graham.linux@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:VYtVc.532$E3.45@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>> I have measured the voltages from pin 1 and pin 4 to round pin 1 give 5v
> but
>> there is nothing from pin4what should the voltage be, plus whats the
> voltage
>> when its not on load straght from the psu pulg, i still get nothing but
> one
>> of my 64 psus has 12v.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Graham
>>
>>
>
> 

Graham Prout wrote:
> I have measured the voltages from pin 1 and pin 4 to round pin 1 give 5v but 
> there is nothing from pin4what should the voltage be, plus whats the voltage 
> when its not on load straght from the psu pulg, i still get nothing but one 
> of my 64 psus has 12v.

It could be easier for others if you could double read your posts before 
sending them out (as pointed already here). It is sometimes difficult to 
guess what you really meant. As for the PSUs - they should give you 
AFAIR about 5.2 to 5.3V of DC and about 11.7V of AC when not loaded. 
Yes. The AC advertised as 9V should be more close to the 12V than 9V on 
a regular C64 or +4 PSU without the load. AC should be on the most upper 
(opposite to each other) pins. The C64 and +4 PSUs were fully 
interchangeable as long as you had the same POWER socket in your +4. I 
recall there were versions with the same socket as in the 64 and with 
different (rectangular AFAIR) ones.

Graham Prout wrote:
> I am sorry for the incorrect postings, i will try to watch what i
> typing.

Not to be tough on you... :-) ...But considering you managed to sneak a typo 
even in these apologises, it does sound difficult to believe ::-)

You're from Manchester area, man! You're supposed to teach us Italians, 
Polish, Germans and so on, how to correctly spell and speak English!

Riccardo

I am sorry for the incorrect postings, i will try to watch what i typing. 

Hi Ricc...

Riccardo Rubini wrote:

>>I am sorry for the incorrect postings, i will try to watch what i
>>typing.

> Not to be tough on you... :-) ...But considering you managed to sneak a typo 
> even in these apologises, it does sound difficult to believe ::-)
> 
> You're from Manchester area, man! You're supposed to teach us Italians, 
> Polish, Germans and so on, how to correctly spell and speak English!

A friend of mine (also german) lived in Manchester for a year, when I 
visitid him after he already stayed 8 months or so there, I could not 
understand a single word of his English. Manchester is _not_ the place 
to learn proper English :)!
And Graham, the TED is on it's way... I hope it arrives soon,

David

No sorry i`m from Ellesmere Port about 30 miles from Manchester. 

"Dave Dahle" <ddahle@sd.cybernex.net> wrote ...

> Whever this comes up, I wonder what one chain did with all the +4 / C16s
> they had - I refer to a liquidator chain that had the acronym COMB... the
> location here in town had 100 easy...

Don't know for sure, but would guess they sold them all.  Mostly through ads
in Compute's! Gazzette, and other Commodore related magazines, I would think.

-- 
Best regards,

Sam Gillett

Change is inevitable,
except from vending machines!

Dave Ross wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Graham Prout wrote:
>
>> Any idea were they can be sorced from.
>
> The only known source is cannibalizing old TED-series machines (+4,
> 16, 116).


I think I am not revealing anything surprising if I tell you that all the 
rare +4 chips are available through the major chip brokers channels. Yeah, 
even the 6510T CPU's for the 1551. I got a hold, for example, of around 20, 
brand new, 8365 TED chips, for less than a buck per piece.

All you have to do is research. That's how I got all of my rare or common 
C65 stuff and a utterly and ridicoulus load of CBM chips - I don't part with 
:-)

> This would be a great candidate for a VHDL/FPGA replacement.  I'd be
> willing to help out such an effort.  Does anyone have any good tech
> info on the TED chip?

When legendary CBM engineer Dave Haynie auctioned off his CV364, I remember 
he also included in the auction some engineering material and documentation. 
The auction's winner, back then, was Dan Benson, a well known CBM hobbist. I 
think Dan still holds all of that material, although I do not remember if, 
after a couple of failed attempts at an eBay sale, he managed to get rid of 
his CV364.

Riccardo

 

"Sam Gillett" <samgillettnospam@diespammermsn.com> wrote in message news:<RZNVc.3017$O%4.127@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>...
> Don't know for sure, but would guess they sold them all.  Mostly through ads
> in Compute's! Gazzette, and other Commodore related magazines, I would think.

Sam,

I 'heard' that COMB went out of business because of the defect rate of
the Plus/4s. But that was 'grapevine'..... Home Shopping Network sold
quite a few of them when they were first dumped, I videotaped an hour
or so of them selling quite a few. I wish I could locate the tape now,
it might be worth a few bucks for nostalgic value on Ebay. :)

S & S Wholesalers in Florida ended up with some of the COMB inventory,
you can see ads in Compute!'s Gazette in late '85 to mid '86 showing
Plus/4's around $80. There was also a man in Tennessee who had a stock
of them that was mentioned in PLUG (Plus/4 Users Group, Monterey CA)
and selling them for $68 each... this was around mid '86 as well. I
can look through my old newsletters and give you a postmark or
newsletter date if you want a more definitive date.

James
www.cbm264.com

"Riccardo Rubini" <rubini@despammed.com> writes:

> I think I am not revealing anything surprising if I tell you that all the 
> rare +4 chips are available through the major chip brokers channels.

Earlier this year, some people from the Oric community stumbled over
a French warehouse full of ULAs, and they arranged a group order to
get a fair amount of these replacement chips which also are rather
common to break from what I understand.

Were TEDs *produced* internally in Commodore, so all possibly remaining
units would have been found and destroyed many years ago? I realize it
is not likely that any C= people will find a warehouse full of them,
but it is an enthusiasmic idea that there might be somewhere, somehow...

-- 
Anders Carlsson

Anders Carlsson wrote:

> Were TEDs *produced* internally in Commodore, so all possibly
> remaining units would have been found and destroyed many years ago?

I remember I read an interview with Fred Bowen where he states that already 
no parts were left in inventory around the demise of Commodore. Any lucky 
find of forgotten CBM warehouses filled with parts, then, seems most 
unlikely.

As far as I know, the TED chips were produced in Norristown, Pennsylvania, 
where the MOS/CSG plant was located. GMT Electronics inherited, off of a 
public auction, and operated the plant until 1999, when EPA shut it down.

According to what Doug Cotton, former CMD frontman in this newsgroup, said a 
few years ago, CSG owned certain patents on a number of chips and so GMT 
owned those patents. CMD acquired SID chips and 1351 controllers 
manufactured by GMT, when CSG and Commodore were long gone.

Unfortunately, as I said, GMT is now out of business, defunct, kaputt. I am 
sure that, if our order was on the likes of the Oric guys one, probably we 
would have stood a little chance to have them produce some parts.

Riccardo