f



Problem == Need Help

Seems I have a little problem ............  and I need one of you guru's
to give me a hand.

For years I have been selling my CD of C= stuff I archived from the old
BBs for a few coins to cover shipping, never wanting to use it as a
source of income,  just to offer what I had to all you guys.

Well sombody who recieved a CD , has put the whole damn thing ONLINE
....  WITHOUT my permission !!

I tell people when they get the CD they can share it with friends and
make copies of it, but this jerk has put the whole thing online (
including my copyrighted programs )

I need some help tracking this guy down ......   I have tried to findout
who runs the website thru Internic and every one else I can think of,
with no luck.

The web site is not registered with Internic , or is a "sub-domain"  of
a registered site,  and it appears "sub-domains" don't show up when
searching Internic.

The web page address is (sample address)
http://something.something.com

not ----  www.something.com    so I believe it's a sub-domain ,  but I
don't know for sure.

There are no "links" to other pages, or a way to contact who ever is
running the site. ( email links )

If anyone has any tricks up their sleeve to find out who is actually
running this site , please let me know ASAP .... if you need to actually
goto the site,  email me and I'll tell you the real web
address...........   "my"  CD is NOT the only one on this site
BTW........ there are about 60  pirated CD's  online there , so I won't
reveal the web page here.

Any help would be appreciated.

Rick

--
**********************************************
 Commodore Software on 3 CD's !! ( D64 Format! )
 Games, Utilities, BBs Progarms and MORE !!!
 Since 1989 serving the C= User and still going
 http://www.citlink.net/~wlbbs
**********************************************


0
wlbbs2 (10)
6/26/2004 9:45:52 PM
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On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 21:45:52 GMT, Rick Youngman <wlbbs@citlink.net>
wrote:

>
>Seems I have a little problem ............  and I need one of you guru's
>to give me a hand.


Rick,  I may be able to asssist... I've emailed you.

jeff *at* jer333 dot c0m




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0
Oldbitcollector
6/26/2004 11:29:27 PM
Hello Rick,

If you have a friend with Mac OS X, there is a utility in the 
Applications --> Utilities folder called "Network Utility".

It can be used to gather all kinds of information if you provide it with 
a domain name or IP address.  Basically, it will identify servers, 
companies, and even trace all servers that you go through to get to a 
given domain name.

It's quite a nice utility.  I've used it several times to "see" how 
information gets routed to different places, or identify the server 
names at a given location.  Sometimes you can even identify who owns the 
server in question.

Some of the information that it can obtain is:
Internet Address
Canonical Name
CPU / OS type
Mail-Box information
Mail-Box exchange
Name Server
Host Name for Address
Start of Authority
Text Information
Well Known Services

You can also "Finger," "Ping," and perform a Port Scan for a domain or 
IP address.

When combined with a "WHOIS" lookup (which is also built-in) you might 
be able to determine exactly who this guy is getting his web-space from.

I'm behind a firewall right now, so the trace-route utility doesn't seem 
to work in my configuration at the moment.  If you find a Macintosh that 
is directly connected to the Internet, you might have some luck with it.

Michael Hunter
mhunter@videocam.net.au


Rick Youngman wrote:

> Seems I have a little problem ............  and I need one of you guru's
> to give me a hand.
> 
> For years I have been selling my CD of C= stuff I archived from the old
> BBs for a few coins to cover shipping, never wanting to use it as a
> source of income,  just to offer what I had to all you guys.
> 
> Well sombody who recieved a CD , has put the whole damn thing ONLINE
> ...  WITHOUT my permission !!
> 
> I tell people when they get the CD they can share it with friends and
> make copies of it, but this jerk has put the whole thing online (
> including my copyrighted programs )
> 
> I need some help tracking this guy down ......   I have tried to findout
> who runs the website thru Internic and every one else I can think of,
> with no luck.
> 
> The web site is not registered with Internic , or is a "sub-domain"  of
> a registered site,  and it appears "sub-domains" don't show up when
> searching Internic.
> 
> The web page address is (sample address)
> http://something.something.com
> 
> not ----  www.something.com    so I believe it's a sub-domain ,  but I
> don't know for sure.
> 
> There are no "links" to other pages, or a way to contact who ever is
> running the site. ( email links )
> 
> If anyone has any tricks up their sleeve to find out who is actually
> running this site , please let me know ASAP .... if you need to actually
> goto the site,  email me and I'll tell you the real web
> address...........   "my"  CD is NOT the only one on this site
> BTW........ there are about 60  pirated CD's  online there , so I won't
> reveal the web page here.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Rick
> 
> --
> **********************************************
>  Commodore Software on 3 CD's !! ( D64 Format! )
>  Games, Utilities, BBs Progarms and MORE !!!
>  Since 1989 serving the C= User and still going
>  http://www.citlink.net/~wlbbs
> **********************************************
> 
> 

0
Michael
6/27/2004 2:43:10 AM
> Well sombody who recieved a CD , has put the whole damn thing ONLINE
> ...  WITHOUT my permission !!

Maybe that jerk is a commercial software author who objects to you
distributing the CD-ROM for a $35 profit without paying him for his program?

Did you receive permission from all those software companies to distribute
their commercial software for a $35 profit?

I do not see what the big deal is, what is the URL so
we can check this terrible somebody out

:-D









0
rebocardo
6/27/2004 7:35:24 AM

>rebocardo wrote:

>Maybe that jerk is a commercial software author who objects to you distributing
the CD-ROM for a $35 profit >without paying him for his program?

When I started this project 3 years ago , MANY announcements were posted here,
for everybody out there C=ommodore Land , to check the contents of the CD ( The
file lists are very complete ) and contact me if they knew of anyone who still
owned the rights to the programs on the CD.

Indeed Centisble Software did contact, and those programs were immediatly
removed.

The packaging on the CD reads: EXACTLY this:

The sofware included on this CD has been collected by the author over the course
of many years, and is distributed here for educational purposes only.  To the
best of the authors knowledge, the included software is now in public domain. If
for any reason you suspect or have proof that any of the programs contained
herein are not in public domain, please contact the author so they may be
removed from future editions. PLEASE REGISTER ALL SHAREWARE PROGRAMS INCLUDED ON
THIS CD.

====== so I rest my case on that issue ===== but not the next one .......

>rebocardo wrote:
>Did you receive permission from all those software companies to distribute
>their commercial software for a $35 profit?

# 1   35 bucks is for a Triple CD box set and includes shipping ..........
each CD sells for 15 bucks individually and also includes shipping.

Lets do a little math ......... cuz it really pizzez me off think Im doing this
for the $$$$

for each CD  @  15.00    it cost about  $ 1.25  for the CD it self and jewel
case....lets add paper cost for the jacket and the ink to print the case ....
now add in the cost of the CD burner I had to buy to be able to produce the
CD's.......   oh and don't forget the $ 3.85 for each CD I shell out to ship the
CD............  now add in the time it takes to package and label a box, and
travel time to goto the post office to ship it........ paying myself minimum
wage, I'm LUCKY if I clear 5.00 bucks a CD

and lets see .... I had the BBs online 24/7 for about 10 years .... I'd roughly
estimate that comes to about $ 175 a year for the extra phone line for the BBs
for a grand total  $ 1,750 bucks  I spent to even aquire the software by running
the BBs. (which was always free to users)

Estimated time to archive all those disks into  D64 format , organize them ,
create the menus and search engine would conservetly be about 1000  hours......
and lets say I "pay" myself only  $ 3.00  bucks an hour for that
undertaking......  not even minimum wage

Well gee wizz ...... were upto about $ 5,000  bucks I have already invested in
this project , so I can clear a "profit ???" of about $ 5  bucks a
CD................  That would mean I would have to sell  over A   1000 !!! CDs
just to break even.... and that won't happen in my lifetime.... the market for
C= stuff is just to limited.......maybe if I was 13 years old I'd see it ,  but
Im 50 now..... and it aint gonna happen.......... so all I can say to that
remark is this time you are waaaaaaaaaaaaayyy off base thinking I'm making a
profit by tring to do MY PART of keeping the C= alive.

Rick


0
Rick
6/27/2004 4:46:16 PM
Hi Rick...

So you spent a lot of money on C=-Stuff and your BBS and whatever... so 
waht? Does this justify asking for money for software you did not write? 
Don't think so. I think you're lucky that some people actually are that 
stupid to by a CD of readily available software for $35, now starting to 
whine about others wanting to make money like you is real embarassing 
for you.

You almost disgust me as much as the people selling CDs of C64-Images 
for 30 � on ebay...

David
0
David
6/27/2004 4:47:41 PM
"Rick Youngman" <wlbbs@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:40DEF9D8.9E6C41D@citlink.net...
>
>
>> ====== so I rest my case on that issue ===== but not the next one .......
>
> >rebocardo wrote:
> >Did you receive permission from all those software companies to
distribute
> >their commercial software for a $35 profit?
>
> # 1   35 bucks is for a Triple CD box set and includes shipping ..........
> each CD sells for 15 bucks individually and also includes shipping.
>
> Lets do a little math ......... cuz it really pizzez me off think Im doing
this
> for the $$$$
>

I have all three of Rick's CD's, they are fantastic and the content is vast.
$35 is a very reasonable price.  Yes, I suppose I could compile something
like it myself...maybe...eventually....who knows how long it would take.
But my time is worth more than that.

Instead of being grateful that Rick has spent so much time and energy
compiling these CDs, people are taking them and putting them online.  And
now someone seems to be defending that.  How sad.  What a pathetic show of
support for the community and those who work to bring us these things.
Worst of all, this sort of thing discourages people like Rick from working
on these compilation projects.  Why should he want to spend countless hours
compiling this stuff if some bozo's going to put it online?


0
Alan
6/27/2004 5:54:18 PM
>You almost disgust me as much as the people selling CDs of C64-Images 
>for 30 � on ebay...
>

I bill my own time out at $35.00 an hour..  I am sure it took many
hours to get that collection together on CD.   Whats the problem
with someone selling the CDs to be paid for some of their time???

Oldbitcollector




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0
Oldbitcollector
6/27/2004 10:22:23 PM
> Why should he want to spend countless hours

Oh ... I thought it was a HOBBY, I did not realize it was a BUSINESS.

> compiling this stuff if some bozo's going to put it online?

I thought the reason the CDs contained the file ID lists was that it was
meant to be used with a Mustang/Santronics system. At least it says so on
his web site.

> I'm LUCKY if I clear 5.00 bucks a CD

I would love to make $2 for every pirated piece of Commodore, Apple, and IBM
commercial and shareware program I or my friends have authored. FWIW:
Commercial software developers that write programs for big companies only
make $2 a SOLD disk, if they are lucky, most are not. You are making more
per disk then some poor Indian programmer working in a sweat house for H.P.
pounding out Z-80 code does for a printer.

Almost every computer sold comes with a CD-R burner, if not they are
available for $30 at Staples, jewel cases are $0.36 cents, and you can buy a
700 MB CD-R almost anywhere for <$0.30. I try to get mine for free when they
are running coupon specials. Though I use plenty of CD-R rejects from large
businesses too. You can get priority shipping boxes for free at the post
office.

So, $3.85 priority + (3 x .36) + (3 *.30) = $5.83  That is all you have to
charge for your HOBBY and what should you care if someone makes it available
in a big .zip file. Isn't this why it says on the web site:

"I did it for one simple reason, to preserve 1000's of programs that would
have been lost into oblivion.".

Well, now that it is easily available in one big .zip file, they will not be
lost, and it will not cost anyone anything anywhere in the world.

I know Timeworks never released their software to the PD and never had the
intention to, especially sidewinder. Just because you call it PD, does not
make it so. It remains copyrighted until it is released by the author.

If you have your own commercial software that you authored on the CD, remove
it from the CD collection and sell it alone. Then when it is sold without
your permission I will have a ton of compassion for the wrong to which that
you have been subjected. Otherwise, you have no leg to stand on to object to
how the CD is distributed in my opinion and you certainly have no legal
recourse because if you forced that unto someone, someone would force a
piracy case unto you that otherwise would just ignore what you do for your
HOBBY.

So far the person doing this wrong thing has been called a jerk and bozo,
where is the site and the proof that this person is doing something
intentionally wrong in the pursuit of their HOBBY?



0
rebocardo
6/27/2004 10:51:41 PM
Oldbitcollector wrote:
>>You almost disgust me as much as the people selling CDs of C64-Images 
>>for 30 � on ebay...
>>
> 
> 
> I bill my own time out at $35.00 an hour..  I am sure it took many
> hours to get that collection together on CD.   Whats the problem
> with someone selling the CDs to be paid for some of their time???
> 
> Oldbitcollector

People should be allowed to charge whatever the market will bear...  At 
least, that's the mentality in a capitalist system.  Obviously, those 
reading this in a non-capitalist economy may find it objectionable.

As I see it, the disks contain SW not available elsewhere, or not 
available in as easy a format.  The compiler stated that he did due 
diligence concerning copyright, and he's not technically selling the 
games per se, but the medium and compilation (and packaging).  Even the 
open source community doesn't object to taking an open source 
application, packaging it, and selling it.  However, the market seldom 
buys such compilations unless there is value added.  In this case, the 
value is that the SW is not available elsewhere.  If you don't agree to 
those terms, don't buy the compilation.  If you do buy it, you agree to 
the terms.  The web site in question was in error to post the disks.

You can debate the philosophical merits of putting the entire 
compilation out for free, the same debate we have had over publishing 
games that were never put in the public domain but whose authors have 
effectively disowned the works, but you can't buy something then 
disregard the usage agreement.  (Well, you can, and this person did, but 
I can't sympathize).

Jim
-- 
Jim Brain, Brain Innovations
brain@jbrain.com                                http://www.jbrain.com
Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!
0
Jim
6/27/2004 11:03:48 PM
If I may be so abstruse,

We all pay a price for what we do.

On a personal level, I am very glad when anyone takes the time out to save
something precious. Whether a form of payment is desired or not.

In the same way I think we're all happy the pirates and hackers got so good
at what they did. Are they saints because they didn't ask for money. I won't
go that far, though you may.

By the way - David, have you gotten any of those 200 disks to work yet? I
think it would be terrible if you didn't archive them. Not all, I'm sure,
but there's a chance of something new in a find so large.

It's okay to do it for free, it's okay to do it for profit. It just sucks
when you feel like you're getting ripped off.

Christian






0
Christian
6/27/2004 11:49:39 PM
Jim Brain wrote:
> People should be allowed to charge whatever the market will bear...  At
So i'll be selling your car for $100. 

> As I see it, the disks contain SW not available elsewhere, or not
> available in as easy a format.  The compiler stated that he did due
> diligence concerning copyright, and he's not technically selling the
I am concerning your ownership of your car as well. But sorry, this is the
only way to make your car available to other persons as well, it's
currently not easily available to other people. 

If you think it's ok to take money for the time you spend to offer other
peoples software: Ok, my offer for your car is cheap as well, since i am
not selling your car but just want to get paid for the work i'll have to do
to forward your car to the new owner.

Sorry, but if you sell things you do not own, it's not just sufficient to
place a sticker on the item and say "whoever has the ownership on this,
please notify me if you don't want me to sell it". Why didn't this guy try
to contact the original authors and just include software that he got
permission for? Ah, wasn't able to reach the authors? I just tried to call
you regarding your car. You didn't pick to phone up, so i assume it's ok to
sell your car ...

And with this site: IMHO it's a thief stealing from a thief ... i don't have
a problem with that.

Ciao,
  Till
0
Till
6/28/2004 12:20:51 AM
"Till Harbaum" <harbaum@beecon.de> wrote in message
news:2k96j4F18918uU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Jim Brain wrote:
> > People should be allowed to charge whatever the market will bear...  At
> So i'll be selling your car for $100.
>

This analogy is so stupid I'll pass on commenting on it.  Oops, too late.

> > As I see it, the disks contain SW not available elsewhere, or not
> > available in as easy a format.  The compiler stated that he did due
> > diligence concerning copyright, and he's not technically selling the
> I am concerning your ownership of your car as well. But sorry, this is the
> only way to make your car available to other persons as well, it's
> currently not easily available to other people.
>
> If you think it's ok to take money for the time you spend to offer other
> peoples software: Ok, my offer for your car is cheap as well, since i am
> not selling your car but just want to get paid for the work i'll have to
do
> to forward your car to the new owner.
>

This is abandoned software that has no monetary value.  How much money is
Rick costing the creators of this software?  None.  It isn't worth anything.
Anyone who just has a bug up their ass and doesn't want anyone using their
software can get it removed from his CDs.  All he's doing is recouping his
costs, maybe he's making a couple dollars to compensate for his time, which,
unlike the software, does have value.  Not to you, obviously, but it does to
him.

> Sorry, but if you sell things you do not own, it's not just sufficient to
> place a sticker on the item and say "whoever has the ownership on this,
> please notify me if you don't want me to sell it". Why didn't this guy try
> to contact the original authors and just include software that he got
> permission for? Ah, wasn't able to reach the authors? I just tried to call
> you regarding your car. You didn't pick to phone up, so i assume it's ok
to
> sell your car ...
>
> And with this site: IMHO it's a thief stealing from a thief ... i don't
have
> a problem with that.
>

I smell a hypocrite.  I bet you own nothing but original commercial software
for your system.  I have no choice but to believe you (I don't believe you).


0
Alan
6/28/2004 12:41:36 AM
Hi there...

Christian Lott wrote:

> On a personal level, I am very glad when anyone takes the time out to save
> something precious. Whether a form of payment is desired or not.

True. BUT!: Either you do it for fun (as Rick did, I assume), _OR_ you 
do it for profit and _admit_ you are doing it for profit. If you did it 
for fun and figured you can make money out of it (I might have a new job 
shipping CD-Rs in Jewels Cases to the US, the prices there seem to be 
outrageous!), fine. But don't complain if anybody points you toward's 
this fact: You are making money with it. If you want to prove you're 
not, please show us your complete business-bill. It's OK with me if you 
say "I did a lot of work to compile this stuff, so I want some money as 
reward". But it's not OK if you play the saint who just saved the 
software to the public and then charge the people.

> In the same way I think we're all happy the pirates and hackers got so good
> at what they did. Are they saints because they didn't ask for money. I won't
> go that far, though you may.

I think that's a complete different case. Rick is selling software he 
does not own. But he does _not_ admit that he is making profit out of 
it. He tries to be the saint you're talking of. And that's a real shame.
Pirates and Hackers did their work for fun or fame or whatever. They did 
it to beat the "system" charging money for software. And they admitted 
it. Noone talked about "I want to make this software public bfor free 
ecause the poor people can't afford it, err, that is... could i have 
some bucks for disks, beer and so on i used cracking it?".

> By the way - David, have you gotten any of those 200 disks to work yet? 

50 % I think

> I
> think it would be terrible if you didn't archive them. Not all, I'm sure,
> but there's a chance of something new in a find so large.

I got some disks with stuff I've never seen before, but I did not have 
the time to figure out what they are...

> It's okay to do it for free, it's okay to do it for profit. 

That's my motto. But _admit_ it. Don't try to do the one and make people 
think you do the other...

David
0
David
6/28/2004 12:53:23 AM
Let me see if I've got this straight... You're selling a disks which is
loaded with pirated software, and then bitching that someone's pirating
"your" stuff?  Am I the only one that finds this really hypocrite?

=== John E. Bielak ===
  www.Questarian.com


"Rick Youngman" <wlbbs@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:40DDF100.348E58CD@citlink.net...
>
> Seems I have a little problem ............  and I need one of you guru's
> to give me a hand.
>
> For years I have been selling my CD of C= stuff I archived from the old
> BBs for a few coins to cover shipping, never wanting to use it as a
> source of income,  just to offer what I had to all you guys.
>
> Well sombody who recieved a CD , has put the whole damn thing ONLINE
> ...  WITHOUT my permission !!
>
> I tell people when they get the CD they can share it with friends and
> make copies of it, but this jerk has put the whole thing online (
> including my copyrighted programs )
>
> I need some help tracking this guy down ......   I have tried to findout
> who runs the website thru Internic and every one else I can think of,
> with no luck.
>
> The web site is not registered with Internic , or is a "sub-domain"  of
> a registered site,  and it appears "sub-domains" don't show up when
> searching Internic.
>
> The web page address is (sample address)
> http://something.something.com
>
> not ----  www.something.com    so I believe it's a sub-domain ,  but I
> don't know for sure.
>
> There are no "links" to other pages, or a way to contact who ever is
> running the site. ( email links )
>
> If anyone has any tricks up their sleeve to find out who is actually
> running this site , please let me know ASAP .... if you need to actually
> goto the site,  email me and I'll tell you the real web
> address...........   "my"  CD is NOT the only one on this site
> BTW........ there are about 60  pirated CD's  online there , so I won't
> reveal the web page here.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Rick
>
> --
> **********************************************
>  Commodore Software on 3 CD's !! ( D64 Format! )
>  Games, Utilities, BBs Progarms and MORE !!!
>  Since 1989 serving the C= User and still going
>  http://www.citlink.net/~wlbbs
> **********************************************
>
>


0
j
6/28/2004 1:50:48 AM
The person who put my CD online, was indeed a customer who bought one, (
over a year ago) .... he was contacted and immediatly removed it from
his site.

To those of you who helped me track him down .... once again I say
thanks .... it only shows that the C= community is ready to jump in and
help where ever they can still.

I believe he probably thought that a CD that has been available for 3
years, probably wasn't being supported any longer and it was OK to post
it........... I don't think he realized how committed I am to this
project, and I apolgze now for calling him a jerk.... it was an innocent
mistake on his part,  and I was pretty upset seeing my "baby" online, so
I guess we both kinda messed up.

Some of you support my efforts on this project.... and some don't .....
and that fine,  but this thread should stop here......

I asked for help with a problem ,  and AS ALWAYS  the C= community came
through ,  and the problem is resolved.......

For those of you that have issue's about my mission ,  I will start a
new thread , but this case is closed.

Thanks again to those that helped solve this problem,

Rick





--
**********************************************
 Commodore Software on 3 CD's !! ( D64 Format )
 Games, Utilities, BBs Progarms and MORE !!!
 Since 1989 serving the C= User and still going
 http://www.citlink.net/~wlbbs
**********************************************


0
Rick
6/28/2004 8:43:47 PM
Alan Reed wrote:
> This is abandoned software that has no monetary value.  How much money is
> Rick costing the creators of this software?  None.  It isn't worth
> anything. 
If it wasn't worth anything, he wouldn't be able to sell his cd. But he _is_
able. People _are_ willing to pay for this "worthless" software. If it his
own software people want to pay for, why is he adding the worthless stuff
then? It obviously _is_ the worthless stuff people are paying for.

> I smell a hypocrite.  I bet you own nothing but original commercial
> software
> for your system.  I have no choice but to believe you (I don't believe
> you).

harbaum@europa:/net/home/harbaum> uname -a
Linux europa 2.4.26 #8 Don Apr 15 11:12:26 CEST 2004 i686 unknown unknown
GNU/Linux

It's a free operating system i am running. It comes with lots of free
applications and this is how i distribute my own work as well:
www.harbaum.org/till/palm

So don't call me a hypocrite if you really don't have a clue what you are
talking about. It's really funny, that there are people out there, who
really believe, that everybody is using warez and stolen software. Hey,
wake up, there _are_ people who value other peoples work and don't consider
other poeples work "worthless".

You can get original copies of plenty of c64 software via ebay etc. It so
ignorant to call other peoples work "worthless" and use this as the reason
to distribute it without permission. 

Till

-- 
Dr.-Ing. Till Harbaum                       Tel.:  +49 721 4998963
BeeCon GmbH                                 Fax:   +49 721 4998962
Haid-und-Neu Strasse 7, 76131 Karlsruhe     Mobil: +49 179 9087904
harbaum@beecon.de                           http://www.beecon.de
0
Till
6/29/2004 11:53:57 AM
"Till Harbaum" <till@harbaum.org> wrote in message
news:2kd3ilFsq08U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Alan Reed wrote:
> > This is abandoned software that has no monetary value.  How much money
is
> > Rick costing the creators of this software?  None.  It isn't worth
> > anything.
> If it wasn't worth anything, he wouldn't be able to sell his cd. But he
_is_
> able. People _are_ willing to pay for this "worthless" software. If it his
> own software people want to pay for, why is he adding the worthless stuff
> then? It obviously _is_ the worthless stuff people are paying for.
>

No, we are paying for the cd, the case, the shipping, and yes, a pittance
for his time and effort.  As everyone knows, most of the stuff is available
for free online.  The software itself has no monetary value.  Don't be
thick.
What are you complaining about anyway?  No one's forcing money out of your
pocket.  If Rick's CDs seem like a rip-off to you, I suggest you don't buy
them.  I'd rather pay him for the CDs than spend hundreds of hours
collecting that stuff myself.

> > I smell a hypocrite.  I bet you own nothing but original commercial
> > software
> > for your system.  I have no choice but to believe you (I don't believe
> > you).
>
> harbaum@europa:/net/home/harbaum> uname -a
> Linux europa 2.4.26 #8 Don Apr 15 11:12:26 CEST 2004 i686 unknown unknown
> GNU/Linux
>
> It's a free operating system i am running. It comes with lots of free
> applications and this is how i distribute my own work as well:
> www.harbaum.org/till/palm
>

Believe it or not, I've heard of Linux.  However, we're talking about
Commodore software, not PC software.  Pay attention.

> So don't call me a hypocrite if you really don't have a clue what you are
> talking about. It's really funny, that there are people out there, who
> really believe, that everybody is using warez and stolen software. Hey,
> wake up, there _are_ people who value other peoples work and don't
consider
> other poeples work "worthless".
>

Again, we're talking about Commodore software, and if you're going to tell
me you have nothing but original C= software then you're a liar.  If you're
not a liar, then you're a hypocrite.  Make up your mind.



0
Alan
6/29/2004 12:56:39 PM
Alan Reed wrote:
> No, we are paying for the cd, the case, the shipping, and yes, a pittance
> for his time and effort.  As everyone knows, most of the stuff is
> available
This is nonsense. You can get an empty cd cheaper at the store down the
street. You are buying his cd because of the software stored on it, not to
own a blank disc. So it _is_ the software you are paying for, not the cd,
otherwise you could just buy any cd. 

Till

-- 
Dr.-Ing. Till Harbaum                       Tel.:  +49 721 4998963
BeeCon GmbH                                 Fax:   +49 721 4998962
Haid-und-Neu Strasse 7, 76131 Karlsruhe     Mobil: +49 179 9087904
harbaum@beecon.de                           http://www.beecon.de
0
Till
6/30/2004 5:36:51 PM
Reply: