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HP OJ d145 color ink out error replace color ink cartridge message

Does anyone know what the HP OfficeJet D145 message means
"Color ink out. Replace color ink cartridge."

The ink level is fine (always was) and I've turned off the ink level
checking for the color ink long ago (by pressing the double-arrow 456 key
sequence).

Since this HP message isn't about the color ink being out....

Can this message be an HP ink cartridge expiry message disguised?
Does HP count the many times I've removed the the ink cartridge to refill?

Problem is the Hewlett Packard OfficeJet printer is dead until I figure
this out. It isn't what it appears to be....so what is it?

Any ideas....what the HP "color ink out" message really means?

Deb

devorah1952@hotmail.com

-- 
Deborah Pace
0
10/17/2006 5:44:56 AM
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On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 05:44:56 GMT, Deborah Pace wrote:
> Does anyone know what the HP OfficeJet D145 message means
> "Color ink out. Replace color ink cartridge."

I'm really in a bind as the printer won't work.
I've tried two different color ink cartridges (all filled to the brim).
Doesn't ANYONE in HP land know what this Hewlett Packard office jet printer
error really indicates?

Deb

--
Deborah Pace
0
bosslady (1)
10/17/2006 4:17:52 PM
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:17:52 GMT, Jette Goldie wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 05:44:56 GMT, Deborah Pace wrote:
>> Does anyone know what the HP OfficeJet D145 message means
>> "Color ink out. Replace color ink cartridge."
> 
> I'm really in a bind as the printer won't work.
> I've tried two different color ink cartridges (all filled to the brim).
> Doesn't ANYONE in HP land know what this Hewlett Packard office jet printer
> error really indicates?
> 
> Deb

Do what I do when I get that hewlett packass color ink out message.
Actually, I always get black ink out but it's the same thing.
Just shut the hewlett packard office jet printer off.
Pull the power cord.
Let it sit a day or two.
Always in my case, the color ink out or black in out message is gone.
Until it reappears for no good reason a month, a week, a year later.
I have never figure out why that message comes up as I always keep the ink
sponges soaking wet with good quality ink (better than the crap hewlett
packard puts in as oem ink that's for sure!).
0
nottelling (71)
10/19/2006 9:53:07 PM
What I think happens, at least with my HP printer, is that you can only
TEMPORARILY turn off the color ink drop counting!

Someone at HP can tell us if this is true ... but what I think happens is
you turn off the color and black ink checking with the double-arrow 456 and
double-arrow 389 sequence ... BUT ... (and this is a big but) ... 

What you think you turned off, secretly turns itself back on the very next
time you reboot your HP printer! Yup. 

What seems to happen is:
- You turn off color and black ink checking
- You print a few pages and then at some point, power down the printer
- When you power the printer back up, the ink checking is back on
- But you don't know that (how can you tell)
- So, even though you fill the cartridges to the brim
- The printer is counting drops and saying it's empty at some point
- Notice that if HP REALLY wanted to tell how much ink was there
- They'd use a more reliable and cheaper method (of which there are many)

Point is, the system is rigged so that you have to turn off the ink drop
checking EVERY SINGLE TIME you turn the HP printer on.

If you ask me, HP printers aren't worth the hassle!
0
nottelling (71)
10/22/2006 3:18:03 AM
"Aluxe" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1p60i4rhx00aj$.64oohslwgah$.dlg@40tude.net...

> What seems to happen is:
> - You turn off color and black ink checking
> - You print a few pages and then at some point, power down the printer
> - When you power the printer back up, the ink checking is back on
> - But you don't know that (how can you tell)
> - So, even though you fill the cartridges to the brim
> - The printer is counting drops and saying it's empty at some point
> - Notice that if HP REALLY wanted to tell how much ink was there
> - They'd use a more reliable and cheaper method (of which there are 
> many)

I would love to hear about a "more reliable and cheaper method" of 
detecting the amount of ink remaining....  I suspect you do not have a 
clue about how these things work, or why the printer should/would care 
about remaining ink.

 - Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

0
bobh (178)
10/22/2006 3:56:37 AM
Aluxe <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
>What I think happens, at least with my HP printer, is that you can only
>TEMPORARILY turn off the color ink drop counting!
>
>Someone at HP can tell us if this is true ... but what I think happens is
>you turn off the color and black ink checking with the double-arrow 456 and
>double-arrow 389 sequence ... BUT ... (and this is a big but) ... 
>
>What you think you turned off, secretly turns itself back on the very next
>time you reboot your HP printer! Yup. 
>
>What seems to happen is:
>- You turn off color and black ink checking
>- You print a few pages and then at some point, power down the printer
>- When you power the printer back up, the ink checking is back on
>- But you don't know that (how can you tell)
>- So, even though you fill the cartridges to the brim
>- The printer is counting drops and saying it's empty at some point
>- Notice that if HP REALLY wanted to tell how much ink was there
>- They'd use a more reliable and cheaper method (of which there are many)
>
>Point is, the system is rigged so that you have to turn off the ink drop
>checking EVERY SINGLE TIME you turn the HP printer on.
>
>If you ask me, HP printers aren't worth the hassle!

The printer is simply protecting the printhead (your printhead). If ink is not 
supplied to the printhead then it will fail, this is true of all inkjet 
printheads regardless of who the manufacturer is. This printer uses separate 
printheads and ink containers, if it used combined heads and ink containers 
then this would not be an issue.
It seems to me that you are making a slightly paranoid assumption. HP does not, 
to my knowledge, build trickery into their printers.
Tony
0
10/22/2006 7:13:28 AM
It all depends on what one means by the word "trickery."    Just like the
meaning of the words "is" and "sex".   Is it trickery to design inkjet printers
with small cartridges that need regular and expensive replacement?   Is it
trickery to embed circuits in the cartridges to prevent refilling?

.... Ben Myers

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 02:13:28 -0500, Tony <TonytheTigurrrrr@aim.com> wrote:

>Aluxe <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>What I think happens, at least with my HP printer, is that you can only
>>TEMPORARILY turn off the color ink drop counting!
>>
>>Someone at HP can tell us if this is true ... but what I think happens is
>>you turn off the color and black ink checking with the double-arrow 456 and
>>double-arrow 389 sequence ... BUT ... (and this is a big but) ... 
>>
>>What you think you turned off, secretly turns itself back on the very next
>>time you reboot your HP printer! Yup. 
>>
>>What seems to happen is:
>>- You turn off color and black ink checking
>>- You print a few pages and then at some point, power down the printer
>>- When you power the printer back up, the ink checking is back on
>>- But you don't know that (how can you tell)
>>- So, even though you fill the cartridges to the brim
>>- The printer is counting drops and saying it's empty at some point
>>- Notice that if HP REALLY wanted to tell how much ink was there
>>- They'd use a more reliable and cheaper method (of which there are many)
>>
>>Point is, the system is rigged so that you have to turn off the ink drop
>>checking EVERY SINGLE TIME you turn the HP printer on.
>>
>>If you ask me, HP printers aren't worth the hassle!
>
>The printer is simply protecting the printhead (your printhead). If ink is not 
>supplied to the printhead then it will fail, this is true of all inkjet 
>printheads regardless of who the manufacturer is. This printer uses separate 
>printheads and ink containers, if it used combined heads and ink containers 
>then this would not be an issue.
>It seems to me that you are making a slightly paranoid assumption. HP does not, 
>to my knowledge, build trickery into their printers.
>Tony
0
10/22/2006 3:24:34 PM
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 02:13:28 -0500, Tony wrote:
> The printer is simply protecting the printhead (your printhead).
> This printer uses separate printheads and ink containers 
> If ink is not supplied to the printhead then it will fai
> HP does not ... build trickery into their printers.

Hi Tony,
But, do you have an answer to the OP's question?
Seems to me I'm the only one who answered the original question.
If you have a better answer ... you should tell us what the message "Color
Ink Out" or "Black Ink Out" means because it certainly doesn't mean the ink
is out!

Note: I'll kindly respond to your "other" issues separately.
0
nottelling (71)
10/22/2006 8:13:54 PM
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:56:37 -0700, Bob Headrick wrote:
> I suspect you do not have a clue about how these things work, 
> or why the printer should/would care about remaining ink.

Hi Bob Headrick,

I can see from the google record you are very experienced, albeit not in
this class of printers, so I take any response from you with much gravity.

However, even though you DO know what you are doing (and you know it well),
I still didn't see an answer to the original OP's question other than mine.

Seems to me, even though my knowledge obviously pales in comparison to that
of those others who posted replies, I seem to be the only one who came up
with an hypothesis as to why a "Color Ink Out" or "Black Ink Out" message
would be trying to tell us (bearing in mind there is no way it's actually
indicating how much ink is in the ink containers!).

If you, or anyone else, has a better hypothesis as to what this "Color Ink
Out" or "Black Ink Out" error is indicating, that would be useful.
0
nottelling (71)
10/22/2006 8:23:11 PM
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:56:37 -0700, Bob Headrick wrote:
>> What seems to happen is:
>> - You turn off color and black ink checking
>> - You print a few pages and then at some point, power down the printer
>> - When you power the printer back up, the ink checking is back on

Hi Bob Headrick,

I'm sorry for interjecting emotion into my previous helpful reply to the
poster and to you. Keeping back on technical topic, is there any way for
you to find out if my hypothesis is true?

1. Does the (<>456, or <>789) turning off the ink drop counting on the
hpojd145 only work until the next power-on cycle?

2. How can a user tell for sure when the hpojd145 ink-drop counting is on
or off?
0
nottelling (71)
10/22/2006 8:32:52 PM
Aluxe <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 02:13:28 -0500, Tony wrote:
>> The printer is simply protecting the printhead (your printhead).
>> This printer uses separate printheads and ink containers 
>> If ink is not supplied to the printhead then it will fai
>> HP does not ... build trickery into their printers.
>
>Hi Tony,
>But, do you have an answer to the OP's question?
>Seems to me I'm the only one who answered the original question.
>If you have a better answer ... you should tell us what the message "Color
>Ink Out" or "Black Ink Out" means because it certainly doesn't mean the ink
>is out!
>
>Note: I'll kindly respond to your "other" issues separately.

I think your hypothesis is not founded in fact. If the printer reports ink out 
or ink low it is quite simply because it believes that to be the case. If 
cartridges have been refilled then there may well be a disconnect between the 
actual levels of ink remaining and the printers ink usage tally. I am not 
opposed to refilling but it is clear that the mechanisms that are used by some 
printers to determine remaining ink is not compatible with refilling, this may 
or may not be by design but I do not see why any manufacturer should change 
their designs simply to assist people who want to refill. Having said that I do 
not believe they should make it too difficult either, as in all things there is 
a balance to be had.
This printer uses separate printheads and ink containers, it is of paramount 
importance that the printer ensures that ink is available to the head in order 
to avoid head damage. If the printer believes that ink is not available it will 
attempt to protect the head, as indeed it should. I see no more complexity than 
this in this issue.
Tony 
0
10/23/2006 4:38:20 AM
I agree, it does depend on what is meant by trickery.
Providing small cartridges is something that I find annoying but I wouldn't 
call it trickery since the detail is readily available from a variety of 
sources.
Deliberately designing a printer and/or cartridges to thwart fair competition 
gets close to my definition of trickery.
Trickery, in my opinion, is designing a printer that will not perform as 
promised and a refusal to put it right. I have rarely heard of a case where HP 
are guilty of this but I can provide a few examples where I think other 
manufacturers are indeed guilty of this.
Tony

Ben Myers <ben_myers_spam_me_not@charter.net> wrote:
>It all depends on what one means by the word "trickery."    Just like the
>meaning of the words "is" and "sex".   Is it trickery to design inkjet printers
>with small cartridges that need regular and expensive replacement?   Is it
>trickery to embed circuits in the cartridges to prevent refilling?
>
>... Ben Myers
>
>On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 02:13:28 -0500, Tony <TonytheTigurrrrr@aim.com> wrote:
>
>>Aluxe <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>What I think happens, at least with my HP printer, is that you can only
>>>TEMPORARILY turn off the color ink drop counting!
>>>
>>>Someone at HP can tell us if this is true ... but what I think happens is
>>>you turn off the color and black ink checking with the double-arrow 456 and
>>>double-arrow 389 sequence ... BUT ... (and this is a big but) ... 
>>>
>>>What you think you turned off, secretly turns itself back on the very next
>>>time you reboot your HP printer! Yup. 
>>>
>>>What seems to happen is:
>>>- You turn off color and black ink checking
>>>- You print a few pages and then at some point, power down the printer
>>>- When you power the printer back up, the ink checking is back on
>>>- But you don't know that (how can you tell)
>>>- So, even though you fill the cartridges to the brim
>>>- The printer is counting drops and saying it's empty at some point
>>>- Notice that if HP REALLY wanted to tell how much ink was there
>>>- They'd use a more reliable and cheaper method (of which there are many)
>>>
>>>Point is, the system is rigged so that you have to turn off the ink drop
>>>checking EVERY SINGLE TIME you turn the HP printer on.
>>>
>>>If you ask me, HP printers aren't worth the hassle!
>>
>>The printer is simply protecting the printhead (your printhead). If ink is 
>>not 
>>supplied to the printhead then it will fail, this is true of all inkjet 
>>printheads regardless of who the manufacturer is. This printer uses separate 
>>printheads and ink containers, if it used combined heads and ink containers 
>>then this would not be an issue.
>>It seems to me that you are making a slightly paranoid assumption. HP does 
>>not, 
>>to my knowledge, build trickery into their printers.
>>Tony

0
10/23/2006 4:59:02 AM
Though probably not trickery, it is clear that neither HP nor any of the other
inkjet printers exactly want to publicize the fact that ink cartridges are teeny
tiny in capacity.   None of these companies would ever buy in to a
consumer-oriented standard that states right there on the box and in the spec
sheet how many pages one can print from the often even teenier and tinier
"starter" cartridges that come with a printer AND how many pages can be printed
with replacement cartridges sold afterward.  Then people could actually compute
cost per printed page and realize how expensive the el cheapo inkjet printers
really are.   Not to mention the pain in the ass inconvenience of having to run
the the nearest Staples every other week to buy still more expensive cartridges.

HP was on the losing end of a class action lawsuit a number of years ago for the
design of its lamentable 1100 and similar laser printers, the ones with the
small footprint and vertical sheet feed.  Only the lawsuit forced Hp to offer a
free kit to ameliorate a clear defect in the design, causing lots of paper jams.
This was probably not trickery, but just plain inept engineering design and
product testing before making the product available for sale.   But when a
company is forced by lawsuit to do something, one has to wonder about trickery.

.... Ben Myers

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:59:02 -0500, Tony <TonytheTigurrrrr@aim.com> wrote:

>I agree, it does depend on what is meant by trickery.
>Providing small cartridges is something that I find annoying but I wouldn't 
>call it trickery since the detail is readily available from a variety of 
>sources.
>Deliberately designing a printer and/or cartridges to thwart fair competition 
>gets close to my definition of trickery.
>Trickery, in my opinion, is designing a printer that will not perform as 
>promised and a refusal to put it right. I have rarely heard of a case where HP 
>are guilty of this but I can provide a few examples where I think other 
>manufacturers are indeed guilty of this.
>Tony
>
>Ben Myers <ben_myers_spam_me_not@charter.net> wrote:
>>It all depends on what one means by the word "trickery."    Just like the
>>meaning of the words "is" and "sex".   Is it trickery to design inkjet printers
>>with small cartridges that need regular and expensive replacement?   Is it
>>trickery to embed circuits in the cartridges to prevent refilling?
>>
>>... Ben Myers
>>
>>On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 02:13:28 -0500, Tony <TonytheTigurrrrr@aim.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Aluxe <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>What I think happens, at least with my HP printer, is that you can only
>>>>TEMPORARILY turn off the color ink drop counting!
>>>>
>>>>Someone at HP can tell us if this is true ... but what I think happens is
>>>>you turn off the color and black ink checking with the double-arrow 456 and
>>>>double-arrow 389 sequence ... BUT ... (and this is a big but) ... 
>>>>
>>>>What you think you turned off, secretly turns itself back on the very next
>>>>time you reboot your HP printer! Yup. 
>>>>
>>>>What seems to happen is:
>>>>- You turn off color and black ink checking
>>>>- You print a few pages and then at some point, power down the printer
>>>>- When you power the printer back up, the ink checking is back on
>>>>- But you don't know that (how can you tell)
>>>>- So, even though you fill the cartridges to the brim
>>>>- The printer is counting drops and saying it's empty at some point
>>>>- Notice that if HP REALLY wanted to tell how much ink was there
>>>>- They'd use a more reliable and cheaper method (of which there are many)
>>>>
>>>>Point is, the system is rigged so that you have to turn off the ink drop
>>>>checking EVERY SINGLE TIME you turn the HP printer on.
>>>>
>>>>If you ask me, HP printers aren't worth the hassle!
>>>
>>>The printer is simply protecting the printhead (your printhead). If ink is 
>>>not 
>>>supplied to the printhead then it will fail, this is true of all inkjet 
>>>printheads regardless of who the manufacturer is. This printer uses separate 
>>>printheads and ink containers, if it used combined heads and ink containers 
>>>then this would not be an issue.
>>>It seems to me that you are making a slightly paranoid assumption. HP does 
>>>not, 
>>>to my knowledge, build trickery into their printers.
>>>Tony
0
10/23/2006 12:37:13 PM
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:38:20 -0500, Tony wrote:
> I think your hypothesis is not founded in fact. If the printer reports ink out 
> or ink low it is quite simply because it believes that to be the case. 

Hi Tony,

I thank you for your expert help.

The fundamental quesion is whether turning off the black and color ink drop
checking on the HP ojd145 via the "double-arrow 4 5 6" and "double-arrow 7
8 9" respectively - is temporary (i.e., until the next power on cycle).

My hypothesis is that you must turn off the ink-drop counting each time to
restart the hpojd145 printer. If you disagree with my hypothesis (which you
are welcome to do, but please provide facts), can you tell me how one would
be able to check whether ink drop counting is on or off. The answer to that
question would prove or disprove the hypothesis.

Does _anyone_ in this printer group know if turning off the ink drop
checking is temporary or if it lasts for a specified period or event?
0
nottelling (71)
10/23/2006 2:52:01 PM
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:37:13 -0400, Ben Myers wrote:
> None of these companies would ever buy in to a
> consumer-oriented standard that states right there on the box and in the spec
> sheet how many pages one can print from the often even teenier and tinier
> "starter" cartridges that come with a printer AND how many pages can be printed
> with replacement cartridges sold afterward.  Then people could actually compute
> cost per printed page and realize how expensive the el cheapo inkjet printers
> really are.   Not to mention the pain in the ass inconvenience of having to run
> the the nearest Staples every other week to buy still more expensive cartridges.


Hi Ben,

Thanks for the welcome comments as I agree with your EPA figure of "cost
per standard page" where the standard page is (perhaps not perfectly)
defined (but it would work - just like it does in other products). It would
be nice to see this as any engineer could look at an HP printer and say
"Geez, that ink tank is too small for that printer".

And, I understand the point about the printheads not drying out. But, of
course, that is a specious argument because the ink tanks are full so
there's no chance of the printheads drying out. Besides, I've boiled many a
printhead as part of my regular maintenance procedure so I'm fully aware of
the fact that not only should the sponges in the ink tanks never be allowed
to dry, but, the printheads must be kept clean of clogs and particles as
well as wet with good quality ink from a printer supply shop.

And I agree that better ink from a printer-supply shop costs about 1/10 of
what Staples charges for HP14 ink tanks where just one 20 ounce bottle of
each color lasts the lifetime of the printer (in my case anyway) - and,
it's both waterpresistant and uv-protected - two critical archival
requirements the inferior quality HP OEM HP14 inks lack.

However, the fundamental question is still whether the hypothesis is true
that the ink-drop counting of the hewlett packard officejet d145 printer
turns back on in all cases after the machine is powered up.

A test of that hypothesis could easily be performed if we knew how to query
the hpojd145 printer to ask if it is counting ink drops at any particular
moment.

Does anyone in expert printer land know the answer to these two fundamental
HP questions?
0
nottelling (71)
10/23/2006 3:01:55 PM
"Ben Myers" <ben_myers_spam_me_not@charter.net> wrote in message 
news:radpj25asmhgcsvkvfqkkbf96cupa5rt0r@4ax.com...
> Though probably not trickery, it is clear that neither HP nor any of 
> the
> other inkjet printers exactly want to publicize the fact that ink 
> cartridges
> are teeny tiny in capacity.   None of these companies would ever
> buy in to a consumer-oriented standard that states right there on the 
> box
> and in the spec sheet how many pages one can print from the often even
> teenier and tinier "starter" cartridges that come with a printer AND 
> how
> many pages can be printed with replacement cartridges sold afterward.

This is not true - the industry has been working for a few years to get 
an ISO standard test method to have an "apples to apples" comparison of 
print yields.  See 
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html 
for the general methodology and 
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html 
for specific printer yields.

- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

0
bobh (178)
10/23/2006 7:23:45 PM
Aluxe <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:8fo2p92t1nvo.v45kxbivh2ih.dlg@40tude.net: 


> If you, or anyone else, has a better hypothesis as to what this "Color
> Ink Out" or "Black Ink Out" error is indicating, that would be useful.

It is indicating that the ink droplet counter is at zero. When you put a 
genuine new cart in, the count gets set to an estimated value
(or set to zero where printing increments the dropcounter), with allowances 
for cleaning and such. 

Under ideal conditions, the counter will show empty when the ink has nearly 
been expelled. The estimation is conservative, so the user doesn't actually 
run out of ink.
0
classicsat (51)
10/24/2006 1:04:13 AM
"Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com> wrote in news:12jlqvqs5d1c0c3
@corp.supernews.com:

> I would love to hear about a "more reliable and cheaper method" of 
> detecting the amount of ink remaining....  I suspect you do not have a 
> clue about how these things work, or why the printer should/would care 
> about remaining ink.
> 
>  - Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

Cheaper, no, but a heck of a lot more reliable would be an actual low-ink 
sensor, similar in function to Canon's optical prism. It could be a PTC 
thermistor in the ink (pass a current through, if it is in ink the ink woul 
cool it, keeping the resistance low, and dry it would heat up to a high 
resistance), or actually optical (if Canon doesn't have a patent on that), 
or maybe directly sense current passing through the ink, if present.
0
classicsat (51)
10/24/2006 1:10:05 AM
Would it be unkind to say that an ISO standard for measuring print yields is a
well-kept secret?   Is there a clearly defined methodology for the consumer to
determine cost per page, based on the ISO standard-under-development?   Would HP
or Epson or Canon or Lexmark provide cost per page (consumables only)
information in store displays, on printer cartons, or on their various web
sites?   Would any or all of these manufacturers consent to having an
independent test lab produce and distribute the results?

The inkjet printer industry at large, not just HP, continues to take a lot of
well-justified flak for weak (I'm being kind again) disclosure of cost per page
information, extremely expensive cartridge costs, shipping tiny "starter"
cartridges with many models of printers, and (some manufacturers only) creating
barriers to competitive 3rd party cartridge companies.   In short, you never
know what you are getting when you buy an inkjet printer, until it has sucked
your billfold dry buying cartridges.

Positive answers to most of the questions asked above would rebuild the
credibility of inkjet printer (and INK!) manufacturers and introduce at least
some transparency into the whole business of figuring out which printer to buy.
Oops!   I forgot.   I'm trying to be rational again, like Mr. Spock and Mr.
Data.

Tell Mr. Hurd I said so.  At least he is more likely to listen than Carly.

.... Ben Myers

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:23:45 -0700, "Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com> wrote:

>
>"Ben Myers" <ben_myers_spam_me_not@charter.net> wrote in message 
>news:radpj25asmhgcsvkvfqkkbf96cupa5rt0r@4ax.com...
>> Though probably not trickery, it is clear that neither HP nor any of 
>> the
>> other inkjet printers exactly want to publicize the fact that ink 
>> cartridges
>> are teeny tiny in capacity.   None of these companies would ever
>> buy in to a consumer-oriented standard that states right there on the 
>> box
>> and in the spec sheet how many pages one can print from the often even
>> teenier and tinier "starter" cartridges that come with a printer AND 
>> how
>> many pages can be printed with replacement cartridges sold afterward.
>
>This is not true - the industry has been working for a few years to get 
>an ISO standard test method to have an "apples to apples" comparison of 
>print yields.  See 
>http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html 
>for the general methodology and 
>http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html 
>for specific printer yields.
>
>- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
0
10/24/2006 2:22:59 AM
"Ben Myers" <ben_myers_spam_me_not@charter.net> wrote in message 
news:rgtqj2lbuivh824e7k6n08coffglstj1na@4ax.com...
> Positive answers to most of the questions asked above would rebuild 
> the
> credibility of inkjet printer (and INK!) manufacturers and introduce 
> at least
> some transparency into the whole business of figuring out which 
> printer to buy.
> Oops!   I forgot.   I'm trying to be rational again, like Mr. Spock 
> and Mr.
> Data.

If you were actually trying to be rational you would have actually read 
the web sites I provided, which answer many of your questions: 
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html 
for the general methodology and 
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html
for specific printer yields.

It appears you have an axe to grind with HP, perhaps related to your 
termination of employment with them a few years ago.  I have a 
suggestion - move on.

 - Bob Headrick




0
bobh (178)
10/24/2006 4:04:32 AM
I read both pages referred to by the cited URLs.  Oops!   They point to the same
page.   One web page does not exactly bring out of obscurity HP's (and others,
of course) efforts to set a standard, although the web page provides a decent
explanation.  All I can say is that it's about time for a standards effort. How
long have color inkjet printers been in use?

Still, I'll persist.   Does HP or ANY other printer company make it easy for
people to make cost per page comparisons for inkjet printers?   Heck no.  Not
even close.   It's not very public.   Again, where is this information
"published"?   If it's off on some hard-to-find web pages, it's not very public.
I'm not beating up on only HP here.  I'm beating up ALL the printer companies
for inkjet printers with very high operating costs.   It's simply that HP is the
only one with a usenet newsgroup.   Canon, Lexmark, Epson do not have usenet
newsgroups.

I do computer and network sales and service work, and all my clients bitch about
having to go to Staples or whereever all too often to buy expensive replacement
inkjet cartridges.  I don't know what to tell them, because no brand stands out
over any other.   This is the computer industry complaint I hear most
frequently.   The inkjet printer industry is a collective embarrassment shared
by all the printer manufacturers, not just HP.   I use an HP LaserJet myself,
eschewing expensive color.

As for other HP products, notably computers, I have found HP computers difficult
to repair compared to some other brands.   (As an example, recently I had to
replace a failed power supply on an HP Pavilion, so I needed to do almost a
complete disassembly to remove the power supply from a cramped mATX chassis not
designed for easy accessibility.  Took darn near an hour, and not because I am
inept.  By comparsion, with most other brands, changing out a power supply is a
matter of removing 4 screws and disconnecting all the connectors, slapping in a
replacement and hooking it up.   10 minutes max.)   I have found the HP web site
to be wanting for useful technical information compared to some other brands.  I
find Dell and Lenovo/IBM to be easy to deal with re. spare parts, technical
specs, maintenance manuals, etc.   Far easier than HP.  Gateway/eMachines is a
real mixed bag, overall not quite as good as HP.   Sony and Toshiba are next to
impossible to deal with.   So from my persepective, I have to place HP somewhere
in the middle of all the computer equipment I have to work on.

I never worked for HP, Compaq, or DEC in my entire life.   Never tried to. Never
saw or had an opportunity to.  Interviewed with DEC once way back when. Went
elsewhere, to another company with a similar failed line of proprietary
computers.   Sorry, no sour grapes here, just an axe to grind whenever I peceive
that a large company (or large companies) are taking advantage of individual
buyers, a phenomenon not unique to the computer industry in a country that has
evolved with a distinct anti-consumer, pro-big business climate... Ben Myers

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:04:32 -0700, "Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com> wrote:

>
>"Ben Myers" <ben_myers_spam_me_not@charter.net> wrote in message 
>news:rgtqj2lbuivh824e7k6n08coffglstj1na@4ax.com...
>> Positive answers to most of the questions asked above would rebuild 
>> the
>> credibility of inkjet printer (and INK!) manufacturers and introduce 
>> at least
>> some transparency into the whole business of figuring out which 
>> printer to buy.
>> Oops!   I forgot.   I'm trying to be rational again, like Mr. Spock 
>> and Mr.
>> Data.
>
>If you were actually trying to be rational you would have actually read 
>the web sites I provided, which answer many of your questions: 
>http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html 
>for the general methodology and 
>http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html
>for specific printer yields.
>
>It appears you have an axe to grind with HP, perhaps related to your 
>termination of employment with them a few years ago.  I have a 
>suggestion - move on.
>
> - Bob Headrick
>
>
>
0
10/24/2006 5:04:33 AM
"Ben Myers" <ben_myers_spam_me_not@charter.net> wrote in message 
news:6f5rj2ljnm7dq5me72fbmgueand12qb73a@4ax.com...
>I read both pages referred to by the cited URLs.  Oops!   They point to 
>the same
> page.   One web page does not exactly bring out of obscurity HP's (and 
> others,
> of course) efforts to set a standard, although the web page provides a 
> decent
> explanation.  All I can say is that it's about time for a standards 
> effort. How
> long have color inkjet printers been in use?
>
> Still, I'll persist.   Does HP or ANY other printer company make it 
> easy for
> people to make cost per page comparisons for inkjet printers?   Heck 
> no.  Not
> even close.   It's not very public.   Again, where is this information
> "published"?   If it's off on some hard-to-find web pages, it's not 
> very public.

Oops, I gave the wrong link.  See 
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/index.html and it can be found 
by a search for "page yield" at http://www.hp.com

As for not being very public, that is changing.  There is a rather large 
effort underway to provide yield information for all new HP printers as 
they are introduced.  As the ISO standard is ratified I would expect the 
information will become more pervasive, both in reviews and marketing 
material.  Prior to a standard different manufacturers could (and did) 
have widely different methods and definitions of page yield.  For 
example, 5% coverage was pretty much "standard" for black text, but one 
manufacturer defined the 5% as based on an A size page with 1" margins 
all the way around - so the 5% area was really only for a 6.5"x9" page. 
With an agreed standard customers will really be able to make more 
informed comparison.

As for taking a *long* time to get this in place, that is true.  How 
many years were cars in existence before the EPA mileage estimates 
became widespread?  Page yield is a very complex issue, depending on a 
large number of variables.  The standard as it is being released will 
give "highway" mileage, the yield if the printer is pretty much run 
continuously emptying the cartridge in one sitting.  "Real" customers 
have a much different usage model, with many printing only a few pages a 
day and taking months or a year to empty a cartridge.  Manufacturers, 
especially the smaller ones, are not interested in a test that would 
take months to run as this would be prohibitively expensive.  Similarly 
printers that use a large amount of ink for servicing could have high 
"continuous printing" yields but relatively poor real world yields. 
Manufacturers would not be interested in publishing the poorer real 
world results.  See 
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/EfficiencyArticle.html, 
particularly the graph in the center of the article.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging


0
bobh (178)
10/24/2006 5:42:13 AM
"Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com> wrote in
news:12jr46lkdt2ba0@corp.supernews.com: 

> If you were actually trying to be rational you would have actually
> read the web sites I provided, which answer many of your questions: 
> http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html

This is a great step forward, Bob. We thank you for pointing it out as we 
print family photos and we hate to have to run out to buy expensive ink 
cartridges which run out at the worst moment. I gave up on storing the ink 
cartridges not only because I learned the expiration dates kill them without 
me doing anything but also because I'd have to store 7 incompatible 
cartridges just to replenish my two HP printers I bought from Costco. 

I do have two questions, since you seem to be very knowledgeable.

Is there any progress on getting this printer ink yield standard to the 
consumer by Christmas of 2007 or 2008 for all printers sold in the US?

Also, why are there so very many different types of HP ink cartridges? My 
family has to sort through a wall of them, taking up tons of shelf space at 
Costco, just to find the type each of our printers use (HP 14 for one printer 
and HP 2 for the other printer). The HP 2 printer uses a LOT of cartridges 
too! And they are teeeeny tiny to boot. 

Why are there so many incompatible types of ink cartridges for something as 
fundamental as holding ink in a tank?

0
kaminsky (1)
10/24/2006 5:51:20 AM
"The Kaminsky Family" <kaminsky@kaminsky.org> wrote in message 
news:Xns9865E87A46B4BTheKaminskyFamily@207.115.17.102...

> Is there any progress on getting this printer ink yield standard to 
> the
> consumer by Christmas of 2007 or 2008 for all printers sold in the US?

It has been a year since I had any involvement with the standards stuff 
(and only on the very periphery then) and the target at that time was 
for 2006 ratification.  I see from some of my old emails that at one 
time the expectation was that the standard would be ratified in 2005 
:-).

> Also, why are there so very many different types of HP ink cartridges? 
> My
> family has to sort through a wall of them, taking up tons of shelf 
> space at
> Costco, just to find the type each of our printers use (HP 14 for one 
> printer
> and HP 2 for the other printer).

HP has been making inkjet's since 1970-something and for the most part 
all the cartridges are still available.  Improvements in technology 
bring new inks and new printheads for new printers, but the old 
cartridges are still on the shelf as well to support the original 
printers.  As for your new printer with "a lot" of cartridges, it has 
six inks and individual supplies for each color.

> Why are there so many incompatible types of ink cartridges for 
> something as
> fundamental as holding ink in a tank?

There are different inks for different purposes.  The recent expansion 
of home photo printing has created demand for inks with better print 
quality and lightfastnesses.  The printer I use has a black cartridge 
and three different tri-color cartridges (CMY, photo and photo gray) and 
is available in several different sizes.  Some of the printers have 
printheads built in, while others, like the printers you have, have 
separate printheads.  In some cases, such as the 57+ and 78+ cartridges 
the new inks are retrofitted back into the previous generation, but 
typically this is not possible due to backwards compatibility issues. 
Some cartridges were used in a large number of systems.  For example, 
the #45 black cartridge was designed into more than a hundred different 
printer, all-in-one and large format printer models over a period of 
nearly a decade.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

0
bobh (178)
10/24/2006 6:29:14 AM
The two URLS in your posting appear to be the same one.  Can you repost 
the one that's missing?

Art

Bob Headrick wrote:

> 
> "Ben Myers" <ben_myers_spam_me_not@charter.net> wrote in message 
> news:rgtqj2lbuivh824e7k6n08coffglstj1na@4ax.com...
> 
>> Positive answers to most of the questions asked above would rebuild the
>> credibility of inkjet printer (and INK!) manufacturers and introduce 
>> at least
>> some transparency into the whole business of figuring out which 
>> printer to buy.
>> Oops!   I forgot.   I'm trying to be rational again, like Mr. Spock 
>> and Mr.
>> Data.
> 
> 
> If you were actually trying to be rational you would have actually read 
> the web sites I provided, which answer many of your questions: 
> http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html 
> for the general methodology and 
> http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/IsoInkjetYield.html
> for specific printer yields.
> 
> It appears you have an axe to grind with HP, perhaps related to your 
> termination of employment with them a few years ago.  I have a 
> suggestion - move on.
> 
> - Bob Headrick
> 
> 
> 
> 
0
10/25/2006 9:14:18 AM
OK, Bob I have the correct one now...

> 
> Oops, I gave the wrong link.  See 
> http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/index.html and it can be found 
> by a search for "page yield" at http://www.hp.com
>
0
10/25/2006 9:25:34 AM
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:10:05 GMT, Gary Tait <classicsat@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>... heck of a lot more reliable would be an actual low-ink 
>sensor, similar in function to Canon's optical prism. It could be a PTC 
>thermistor in the ink 

Or it could be as simple as a clear plastic ink tank.

If HP really wanted to provide the true ink level, they (easily could
have and certainly would have.

I can't blame them. HP probably makes more money on ink than on the
printer. They sell for fifty dollars what costs them less than five
dollars to manufacture and which someone else could replace for about
five dollars retail (ink is nothing special, boys and girls).

If your motor vehicle had a low-fluid level sensor such as the one in
the HP printers in question, your engine wouldn't last a year! So
please don't believe the nice sounding yet convoluted phrasing with
vague meaning that you read in the HP literature.

HP is a marketing machine who has determined to make a profit (can't
blam 'em) at your expense. Don't buy HP and your problem is solved!
Or, research WHICH PRINTERS can easily be refilled and buy THEM.

Vote with your dollars boys and girls!
PS The question is WHICH COLOR PRINTERS CAN EASILY BE REFILLED?
0
10/25/2006 2:59:24 PM
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:52:01 GMT, Aluxe <nottelling@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>My hypothesis is that you must turn off the ink-drop counting each time to
>restart the hpojd145 printer. If you disagree with my hypothesis (which you
>are welcome to do, but please provide facts), can you tell me how one would
>be able to check whether ink drop counting is on or off. The answer to that
>question would prove or disprove the hypothesis.
>
>Does _anyone_ in this printer group know if turning off the ink drop
>checking is temporary or if it lasts for a specified period or event?

I think maybe it's your removal of the ink tank to refill which is
causing the ink droplet counting to reset back to counting droplets.

But I don't know how to tell if the HP ink droplet counting is on at
any one moment in time - I'm sure others on this ng certainly do.
0
10/25/2006 3:01:42 PM
Aluxe <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:38:20 -0500, Tony wrote:
>> I think your hypothesis is not founded in fact. If the printer reports ink 
>>out 
>> or ink low it is quite simply because it believes that to be the case. 
>
>Hi Tony,
>
>I thank you for your expert help.
>
>The fundamental quesion is whether turning off the black and color ink drop
>checking on the HP ojd145 via the "double-arrow 4 5 6" and "double-arrow 7
>8 9" respectively - is temporary (i.e., until the next power on cycle).
>
>My hypothesis is that you must turn off the ink-drop counting each time to
>restart the hpojd145 printer. If you disagree with my hypothesis (which you
>are welcome to do, but please provide facts), can you tell me how one would
>be able to check whether ink drop counting is on or off. The answer to that
>question would prove or disprove the hypothesis.
>
>Does _anyone_ in this printer group know if turning off the ink drop
>checking is temporary or if it lasts for a specified period or event?


The purpose of the ink usage counter is to protect the printhead and to provide 
an estimate of printhead life remaining, nothing more (in this printer at 
least).
Therefore I cannot understand why anybody would want to turn it off unless they 
want the printhead to die. The second issue I have is that I am surprised that 
HP allows it to be turned off.
Your hypothesis seems to me to have no relevance.
Tony
0
10/27/2006 7:21:59 AM
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My HP OfficeJet 6110 multifunction printer destroys black ink cartridges every couple of months. I print very infrequently (about 10 pages in 6 months?) and the HP 56 (original) cartridges, still with much ink in them, quit working after that time. I've got 3 damaged cartridges so far. Error message that appears after a couple of months is: Remove and check cartridge Right Cartridge Incorrect The color cartridge is never affected. I have tried cleaning the contacts, printer reset routines, re-install printer firmware, etc. The only thing that works is to put in a bran...

HP OfficeJet 6110 destroys my HP 56 ink cartridges regularly
My HP OfficeJet 6110 multifunction printer destroys black ink cartridges every couple of months. I print very infrequently (about 10 pages in 6 months?) and the HP 56 (original) cartridges, still with much ink in them, quit working after that time. I've got 3 damaged cartridges so far. Error message that appears after a couple of months is: Remove and check cartridge Right Cartridge Incorrect The color cartridge is never affected. I have tried cleaning the contacts, printer reset routines, re-install printer firmware, etc. The only thing that works is to put in a bran...

HP 15 Black Ink Cartridge (C6615D)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6724573030 GENUINE HP 15 Black Ink Cartridge (C6615D) I have 2 of these available... Will ship to the USA and anywhere else in the World! Brand new - expiry dates are various dates in Jan/Feb 2006. This product is suitable for: HP PSC 500 HP Deskjet 812C HP Deskjet 810C HP PSC 950 HP PSC 750 HP Officejet V45 HP Officejet V40 HP Officejet K80 HP Officejet K60 HP Officejet 5110 HP Deskjet 940C HP Deskjet 920C HP Deskjet 3820 HP Deskjet 845C HP Deskjet 843C HP Deskjet 842C HP Deskjet 840C HP Deskjet...

HP Deskjet 842C Ink Cartridge Replacement and Refilling
HP Deskjet 842C Ink Cartridge Replacement and Refilling 15 Black 17 Color Hewlett Packard Deskjet 842C Stopped Working (July 2007) My experience with refilling and replacing ink. My printer is about 6 years old. Last week, my printer stopped working in the middle of a page, showing the blinking Bad Cartridge light. In the past, I have used non-HP 17 color ink cartridges (bad color, I consider them bad buys), and I have refilled HP 15 black cartridges (worked fine), and tried to refill HP 17 color cartridges (bad color resulted). By resetting the printer (hard reset: remove...

HP 845c Inket replaced color cartridge, and does not function
My gf just replaced color cartridge, and now the bloody thing prints only one color- magenta. Prints black okay, but this is quite frustrating as there is no info at the HP site (AFAI am able find) that addresses this specific problem. I am downloading driver update as a type (dial-up /yawn/), but I'm not confident this will do any good. When printing a test page, etc. it functions normally excepting that the *new* *expensive* color cartridge isn't doing it's job. The diagnostic at the HP site isn't designed to address this particluar kind of problem (I mean /I knew/ it was plugged in, as well as the USB cable was too, c'mon, I'm not stoopid ;^) Hints suggestions etc. hereby solicited. "Marschpa" <schnuckie48UNDERWEAR@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:2r6dn2F16ge3dU1@uni-berlin.de... > My gf just replaced color cartridge, and now the bloody thing prints only > one color- magenta. Prints black okay, but this is quite frustrating as > there is no info at the HP site (AFAI am able find) that addresses this > specific problem. Most likely the color cartridge is beyond its shelf life. Check the warranty date of the cartridge as shown at: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bua02014. If the cartridge is still in warranty contact your dealer or HP for a replacement. If the cartridge is beyond the warranty replace the cartridge with...

get HP color printer print black&white if some color cartridge is used up
the printer (HP Color LaserJet 3500) refuses to print anything until the supply is replaced. Isn't it really possible to print monochrome documents if one of the color (eg, cyan) cartridges ends? "A" <kkadrese@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:179c645b.0503230653.20e2c086@posting.google.com... > the printer (HP Color LaserJet 3500) refuses to print anything until > the supply is replaced. Isn't it really possible to print monochrome > documents if one of the color (eg, cyan) cartridges ends? > No. It uses the color inks to make the black look 'blacker'. No colors... no black. Not specific to HP... most other manufacturers do exactly the same thing. If you want grayscale it's best to use a laser printer. -- Cari (MS-MVP Printing & Imaging) ...

HP 2610 All in One: Remove and Check Color Cartridge Error
Does anyone know of a fix for the HP 2610 All in One that just started getting the following error message: Remove aand Check Color Cartridge? Replacing the color cartridge with new ones did not fix the problem. No luck finding a solution with a web search and forget about getting an answer from HP's site. Thanks A Lot, Len Len Robbins wrote: > Does anyone know of a fix for the HP 2610 All in One that just started > getting the following error message: Remove aand Check Color Cartridge? > > Replacing the color cartridge with new ones did not fix the p...

HP DJ 990series color ink use in greyscale mode
Hi! I realized that my HP DJ 990cxi uses color ink (HP seems to use blue for better contrasts) even when I select greyscale in the printer dialogue. How can I achive that my printer really uses just the black ink in greyscale??? Thanks in advance. U.P. U have to choose "only black cartridge" "U.Pischa" <upischa@compuserve.de> wrote in message news:3fa55e18$0$18535$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de... > Hi! > > I realized that my HP DJ 990cxi uses color ink (HP seems to use blue for > better contrasts) even when I select greyscale in the printer dialogue. How > can I achive that my printer really uses just the black ink in greyscale??? > > Thanks in advance. > U.P. > > geocha <geocha@aliceposta.it> wrote: > U have to choose "only black cartridge" > "U.Pischa" <upischa@compuserve.de> wrote in message > news:3fa55e18$0$18535$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de... > > Hi! > > > > I realized that my HP DJ 990cxi uses color ink (HP seems to use blue for > > better contrasts) even when I select greyscale in the printer dialogue. >> How can I achive that my printer really uses just the black ink in >> greyscale??? Yes, that's right. To be more specific (I use a different Deskjet, but it's probably the same driver) Under "Paper" in the Papertype/Quality option there is a choice of Colorsmart or Greysc...

Mistake handling replacement cartridge HP Color Laserjet CP1518ni
While I was installing a set of new CMYK cartridges I made a mistake and ac= cidentally touched the drum of the K cartridge. Whether it was this mistake= or a defective cartridge (ti was an off brand) now the when printing black= the text on the left half of the page black is barely visible. The fading = is uniform from top to bottom of the page. Is it ever possible to clean the drum or am I stuck with buying a new K car= tridge? John Culleton john (at) wexfordpress.com john@wexfordpress.com wrote: While I was installing a set of new CMYK cartridges I made a mistake and acci...

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