HP has been in my computer room several times in the past few months. 
We have two 2/20 tape libraries with two DLT-8000 drives in them.

 From what I can gather from LOTS of 'experience' with these drives,
they work great until they need cleaning, then, as soon as the
cleaning cartridge gets run, the tape drives are slower than
molasses.  Sometimes (not always) a firmware "upgrade" (i.e. flashing
the thing) fixes the performance.

What is the actual problem with these things??  I can't have HP in
every month to replace these things!!  They can't figure out what
the problem is either.

It doesn't matter what system they're hooked to or how the cabling is
arranged.  HP/LTT takes about 1 minute to do read/write on a good
drive but 30-40 minutes on one with this condition.

We are NOT excessively cleaning the drive.  They seem to pop after the
first or second cleaning for some bloody reason.

Here are the specs:

Product ID               : DLT8000
Drive Technology         : DLT
Mech. Serial Number      : RBDxxxxxxx
Firmware Rev             : V086/OML3
Target ID                : 1
Target LUN               : 0
OBDR Capability          : Not Present

Anyone have something like this happen??

I work with HP DLT and LTO drives quite often, I have not seen this
before. L&TT is a great utility, save a detailed support ticket and
check it out for anything  strange. If you are under warranty I'd ask
for another one, you should not have to suffer performace due to
regular maintenance. I would have to say that its probably not going
to just start working fine, and if it does i would not trust it to
back up MY data. I think quantum make the mechs in those drives.

Me <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<41a39236$0$9106$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com>...
> HP has been in my computer room several times in the past few months. 
> We have two 2/20 tape libraries with two DLT-8000 drives in them.
> 
>  From what I can gather from LOTS of 'experience' with these drives,
> they work great until they need cleaning, then, as soon as the
> cleaning cartridge gets run, the tape drives are slower than
> molasses.  Sometimes (not always) a firmware "upgrade" (i.e. flashing
> the thing) fixes the performance.
> 
> What is the actual problem with these things??  I can't have HP in
> every month to replace these things!!  They can't figure out what
> the problem is either.
> 
> It doesn't matter what system they're hooked to or how the cabling is
> arranged.  HP/LTT takes about 1 minute to do read/write on a good
> drive but 30-40 minutes on one with this condition.
> 
> We are NOT excessively cleaning the drive.  They seem to pop after the
> first or second cleaning for some bloody reason.
> 
> Here are the specs:
> 
> Product ID               : DLT8000
> Drive Technology         : DLT
> Mech. Serial Number      : RBDxxxxxxx
> Firmware Rev             : V086/OML3
> Target ID                : 1
> Target LUN               : 0
> OBDR Capability          : Not Present
> 
> Anyone have something like this happen??

Make sure the cleaning cartridge is still good, maybe try another cleaning 
cartridge.

When these things start to run slow, its probably a head going and having 
trouble reading.  Usually, this happens after the drive demands more 
frequent cleaning.  And its true that the drive can go as slow as molasses 
after the head degrades.  For example, a full restore that would ussually 
take 3 hours can turn into a 17hour job with a working but degraded head. 
I'm not sure exactly what firmware you had installed.  But that firmware may 
just simply reset the drive from degraded read mode back to normal at the 
early stages after cleaning, but eventually, you are just mediating the 
problem at the beginning.  Your real problem may lie in your cleaning tape.

If you are still having cronic problem, pass me one of your case number, and 
I'll look into it for you.

"Me" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message 
news:41a39236$0$9106$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
> HP has been in my computer room several times in the past few months. We 
> have two 2/20 tape libraries with two DLT-8000 drives in them.
>
> From what I can gather from LOTS of 'experience' with these drives,
> they work great until they need cleaning, then, as soon as the
> cleaning cartridge gets run, the tape drives are slower than
> molasses.  Sometimes (not always) a firmware "upgrade" (i.e. flashing
> the thing) fixes the performance.
>
> What is the actual problem with these things??  I can't have HP in
> every month to replace these things!!  They can't figure out what
> the problem is either.
>
> It doesn't matter what system they're hooked to or how the cabling is
> arranged.  HP/LTT takes about 1 minute to do read/write on a good
> drive but 30-40 minutes on one with this condition.
>
> We are NOT excessively cleaning the drive.  They seem to pop after the
> first or second cleaning for some bloody reason.
>
> Here are the specs:
>
> Product ID               : DLT8000
> Drive Technology         : DLT
> Mech. Serial Number      : RBDxxxxxxx
> Firmware Rev             : V086/OML3
> Target ID                : 1
> Target LUN               : 0
> OBDR Capability          : Not Present
>
> Anyone have something like this happen?? 

Some of these drives are fresh from HP though.. it works for a month 
then after the first cleaning.. BAM!

The cleaning tapes are brand spanking new too.



JoeBoxer wrote:
> Make sure the cleaning cartridge is still good, maybe try another cleaning 
> cartridge.
> 
> When these things start to run slow, its probably a head going and having 
> trouble reading.  Usually, this happens after the drive demands more 
> frequent cleaning.  And its true that the drive can go as slow as molasses 
> after the head degrades.  For example, a full restore that would ussually 
> take 3 hours can turn into a 17hour job with a working but degraded head. 
> I'm not sure exactly what firmware you had installed.  But that firmware may 
> just simply reset the drive from degraded read mode back to normal at the 
> early stages after cleaning, but eventually, you are just mediating the 
> problem at the beginning.  Your real problem may lie in your cleaning tape.
> 
> If you are still having cronic problem, pass me one of your case number, and 
> I'll look into it for you.
> 
> "Me" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message 
> news:41a39236$0$9106$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
> 
>>HP has been in my computer room several times in the past few months. We 
>>have two 2/20 tape libraries with two DLT-8000 drives in them.
>>
>>From what I can gather from LOTS of 'experience' with these drives,
>>they work great until they need cleaning, then, as soon as the
>>cleaning cartridge gets run, the tape drives are slower than
>>molasses.  Sometimes (not always) a firmware "upgrade" (i.e. flashing
>>the thing) fixes the performance.
>>
>>What is the actual problem with these things??  I can't have HP in
>>every month to replace these things!!  They can't figure out what
>>the problem is either.
>>
>>It doesn't matter what system they're hooked to or how the cabling is
>>arranged.  HP/LTT takes about 1 minute to do read/write on a good
>>drive but 30-40 minutes on one with this condition.
>>
>>We are NOT excessively cleaning the drive.  They seem to pop after the
>>first or second cleaning for some bloody reason.
>>
>>Here are the specs:
>>
>>Product ID               : DLT8000
>>Drive Technology         : DLT
>>Mech. Serial Number      : RBDxxxxxxx
>>Firmware Rev             : V086/OML3
>>Target ID                : 1
>>Target LUN               : 0
>>OBDR Capability          : Not Present
>>
>>Anyone have something like this happen?? 
> 
> 
> 

I'll survey some of the other clients, but it seems that this problem is 
unique to your enviroment.  Something is messing up those head faster than 
it should.  Unless you do hourly backup, its one of either cases:

Firmware, dusty/hi vibration enviroment, bad cleaning tape, incompatable 
backup media or ghost in the machine.

I've had tape drive that thinks its a shark and snap every tape it comes in 
contact with, one that says tapes are in it when its empty, drives that 
smokes, drives that gets old, but your problem seems to point to some thing 
else.  This is something where having warranty/contract is very benefitial, 
but its causing you time.  Maybe trying a different type of drive and see 
the response from it after a few months.

"Me" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message 
news:41acbc51$0$9142$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
> Some of these drives are fresh from HP though.. it works for a month then 
> after the first cleaning.. BAM!
>
> The cleaning tapes are brand spanking new too.
>
>
>
> JoeBoxer wrote:
>> Make sure the cleaning cartridge is still good, maybe try another 
>> cleaning cartridge.
>>
>> When these things start to run slow, its probably a head going and having 
>> trouble reading.  Usually, this happens after the drive demands more 
>> frequent cleaning.  And its true that the drive can go as slow as 
>> molasses after the head degrades.  For example, a full restore that would 
>> ussually take 3 hours can turn into a 17hour job with a working but 
>> degraded head. I'm not sure exactly what firmware you had installed.  But 
>> that firmware may just simply reset the drive from degraded read mode 
>> back to normal at the early stages after cleaning, but eventually, you 
>> are just mediating the problem at the beginning.  Your real problem may 
>> lie in your cleaning tape.
>>
>> If you are still having cronic problem, pass me one of your case number, 
>> and I'll look into it for you.
>>
>> "Me" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message 
>> news:41a39236$0$9106$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
>>
>>>HP has been in my computer room several times in the past few months. We 
>>>have two 2/20 tape libraries with two DLT-8000 drives in them.
>>>
>>>From what I can gather from LOTS of 'experience' with these drives,
>>>they work great until they need cleaning, then, as soon as the
>>>cleaning cartridge gets run, the tape drives are slower than
>>>molasses.  Sometimes (not always) a firmware "upgrade" (i.e. flashing
>>>the thing) fixes the performance.
>>>
>>>What is the actual problem with these things??  I can't have HP in
>>>every month to replace these things!!  They can't figure out what
>>>the problem is either.
>>>
>>>It doesn't matter what system they're hooked to or how the cabling is
>>>arranged.  HP/LTT takes about 1 minute to do read/write on a good
>>>drive but 30-40 minutes on one with this condition.
>>>
>>>We are NOT excessively cleaning the drive.  They seem to pop after the
>>>first or second cleaning for some bloody reason.
>>>
>>>Here are the specs:
>>>
>>>Product ID               : DLT8000
>>>Drive Technology         : DLT
>>>Mech. Serial Number      : RBDxxxxxxx
>>>Firmware Rev             : V086/OML3
>>>Target ID                : 1
>>>Target LUN               : 0
>>>OBDR Capability          : Not Present
>>>
>>>Anyone have something like this happen??
>>
>> 

The humidity and temperature and air are very carefully controlled in 
the environment in question.  Machines that have been running for years 
have no dust in them at all.

The cleaning tapes just got replaced with no change in the behavior, and 
the firmware is the latest.

For now I've bought myself some time by commenting out that one drive 
from the omniback datalist.

How frustrating!!



JoeBoxer wrote:
> I'll survey some of the other clients, but it seems that this problem is 
> unique to your enviroment.  Something is messing up those head faster than 
> it should.  Unless you do hourly backup, its one of either cases:
> 
> Firmware, dusty/hi vibration enviroment, bad cleaning tape, incompatable 
> backup media or ghost in the machine.
> 
> I've had tape drive that thinks its a shark and snap every tape it comes in 
> contact with, one that says tapes are in it when its empty, drives that 
> smokes, drives that gets old, but your problem seems to point to some thing 
> else.  This is something where having warranty/contract is very benefitial, 
> but its causing you time.  Maybe trying a different type of drive and see 
> the response from it after a few months.
> 
> "Me" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message 
> news:41acbc51$0$9142$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
> 
>>Some of these drives are fresh from HP though.. it works for a month then 
>>after the first cleaning.. BAM!
>>
>>The cleaning tapes are brand spanking new too.
>>
>>
>>
>>JoeBoxer wrote:
>>
>>>Make sure the cleaning cartridge is still good, maybe try another 
>>>cleaning cartridge.
>>>
>>>When these things start to run slow, its probably a head going and having 
>>>trouble reading.  Usually, this happens after the drive demands more 
>>>frequent cleaning.  And its true that the drive can go as slow as 
>>>molasses after the head degrades.  For example, a full restore that would 
>>>ussually take 3 hours can turn into a 17hour job with a working but 
>>>degraded head. I'm not sure exactly what firmware you had installed.  But 
>>>that firmware may just simply reset the drive from degraded read mode 
>>>back to normal at the early stages after cleaning, but eventually, you 
>>>are just mediating the problem at the beginning.  Your real problem may 
>>>lie in your cleaning tape.
>>>
>>>If you are still having cronic problem, pass me one of your case number, 
>>>and I'll look into it for you.
>>>
>>>"Me" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message 
>>>news:41a39236$0$9106$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>HP has been in my computer room several times in the past few months. We 
>>>>have two 2/20 tape libraries with two DLT-8000 drives in them.
>>>>
>>>
>>>>From what I can gather from LOTS of 'experience' with these drives,
>>>
>>>>they work great until they need cleaning, then, as soon as the
>>>>cleaning cartridge gets run, the tape drives are slower than
>>>>molasses.  Sometimes (not always) a firmware "upgrade" (i.e. flashing
>>>>the thing) fixes the performance.
>>>>
>>>>What is the actual problem with these things??  I can't have HP in
>>>>every month to replace these things!!  They can't figure out what
>>>>the problem is either.
>>>>
>>>>It doesn't matter what system they're hooked to or how the cabling is
>>>>arranged.  HP/LTT takes about 1 minute to do read/write on a good
>>>>drive but 30-40 minutes on one with this condition.
>>>>
>>>>We are NOT excessively cleaning the drive.  They seem to pop after the
>>>>first or second cleaning for some bloody reason.
>>>>
>>>>Here are the specs:
>>>>
>>>>Product ID               : DLT8000
>>>>Drive Technology         : DLT
>>>>Mech. Serial Number      : RBDxxxxxxx
>>>>Firmware Rev             : V086/OML3
>>>>Target ID                : 1
>>>>Target LUN               : 0
>>>>OBDR Capability          : Not Present
>>>>
>>>>Anyone have something like this happen??
>>>
>>>
> 

Only the drives that goes into this one bay is giving you problem.  You
mentionned you have two 2/20 tape libraries with two DLT-8000 drives in
them.

And that you commented the "one" out.  Which leaves me to wonder about the
replacement vs. your current "functioning" drive.  Check the hp parts
number... C6xxx-69xxx if its the remanufactured drive or C6xxx-63xxx
original.  You may want to compare the difference in the firmware revision,
as the newest firmware aren't always the best way to go in rare cases.  Swap
the two drives, and see what happens, if you know the one drive haven't been
giving you problems.  This may help to localize the problem a bit.

Also, may I suggest looking up the http://itrc.hp.com website for
information, forum discussion and resources.

Do you have the collection of tape tools available to diagnose the drive? 
LTT.  Its available online from hp.

Joe

"Me" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message 
news:41ae13e1$0$9124$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
> The humidity and temperature and air are very carefully controlled in the 
> environment in question.  Machines that have been running for years have 
> no dust in them at all.
>
> The cleaning tapes just got replaced with no change in the behavior, and 
> the firmware is the latest.
>
> For now I've bought myself some time by commenting out that one drive from 
> the omniback datalist.
>
> How frustrating!!
>
>
>
> JoeBoxer wrote:
>> I'll survey some of the other clients, but it seems that this problem is 
>> unique to your enviroment.  Something is messing up those head faster 
>> than it should.  Unless you do hourly backup, its one of either cases:
>>
>> Firmware, dusty/hi vibration enviroment, bad cleaning tape, incompatable 
>> backup media or ghost in the machine.
>>
>> I've had tape drive that thinks its a shark and snap every tape it comes 
>> in contact with, one that says tapes are in it when its empty, drives 
>> that smokes, drives that gets old, but your problem seems to point to 
>> some thing else.  This is something where having warranty/contract is 
>> very benefitial, but its causing you time.  Maybe trying a different type 
>> of drive and see the response from it after a few months.
>>
>> "Me" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message 
>> news:41acbc51$0$9142$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
>>
>>>Some of these drives are fresh from HP though.. it works for a month then 
>>>after the first cleaning.. BAM!
>>>
>>>The cleaning tapes are brand spanking new too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>JoeBoxer wrote:
>>>
>>>>Make sure the cleaning cartridge is still good, maybe try another 
>>>>cleaning cartridge.
>>>>
>>>>When these things start to run slow, its probably a head going and 
>>>>having trouble reading.  Usually, this happens after the drive demands 
>>>>more frequent cleaning.  And its true that the drive can go as slow as 
>>>>molasses after the head degrades.  For example, a full restore that 
>>>>would ussually take 3 hours can turn into a 17hour job with a working 
>>>>but degraded head. I'm not sure exactly what firmware you had installed. 
>>>>But that firmware may just simply reset the drive from degraded read 
>>>>mode back to normal at the early stages after cleaning, but eventually, 
>>>>you are just mediating the problem at the beginning.  Your real problem 
>>>>may lie in your cleaning tape.
>>>>
>>>>If you are still having cronic problem, pass me one of your case number, 
>>>>and I'll look into it for you.
>>>>
>>>>"Me" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message 
>>>>news:41a39236$0$9106$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>HP has been in my computer room several times in the past few months. 
>>>>>We have two 2/20 tape libraries with two DLT-8000 drives in them.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From what I can gather from LOTS of 'experience' with these drives,
>>>>
>>>>>they work great until they need cleaning, then, as soon as the
>>>>>cleaning cartridge gets run, the tape drives are slower than
>>>>>molasses.  Sometimes (not always) a firmware "upgrade" (i.e. flashing
>>>>>the thing) fixes the performance.
>>>>>
>>>>>What is the actual problem with these things??  I can't have HP in
>>>>>every month to replace these things!!  They can't figure out what
>>>>>the problem is either.
>>>>>
>>>>>It doesn't matter what system they're hooked to or how the cabling is
>>>>>arranged.  HP/LTT takes about 1 minute to do read/write on a good
>>>>>drive but 30-40 minutes on one with this condition.
>>>>>
>>>>>We are NOT excessively cleaning the drive.  They seem to pop after the
>>>>>first or second cleaning for some bloody reason.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here are the specs:
>>>>>
>>>>>Product ID               : DLT8000
>>>>>Drive Technology         : DLT
>>>>>Mech. Serial Number      : RBDxxxxxxx
>>>>>Firmware Rev             : V086/OML3
>>>>>Target ID                : 1
>>>>>Target LUN               : 0
>>>>>OBDR Capability          : Not Present
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone have something like this happen??
>>>>
>>>>
>> 

Only the drives that goes into this one bay is giving you problem?  You
mentionned you have two 2/20 tape libraries with two DLT-8000 drives in
them.

And that you commented the "one" out.  Which leaves me to wonder about the
replacement vs. your current "functioning" drive.  Check the hp parts
number... C6xxx-69xxx if its the remanufactured drive or C6xxx-63xxx
original.  You may want to compare the difference in the firmware revision,
as the newest firmware aren't always the best way to go in rare cases.  Swap
the two drives, and see what happens, if you know the one drive haven't been
giving you problems.  This may help to localize the problem a bit.

Also, may I suggest looking up the http://itrc.hp.com website for
information, forum discussion and resources.

Joe 

Yes.  The LTT is what helped me diagnose that it was the drive and not 
the system or omniback causing the problem.

Doesn't matter "where" the drive is.. the problem follows the unit and 
replacing the unit is the only fix so far, but it comes back and to 
different units... argh!



JoeBoxer wrote:
> Only the drives that goes into this one bay is giving you problem?  You
> mentionned you have two 2/20 tape libraries with two DLT-8000 drives in
> them.
> 
> And that you commented the "one" out.  Which leaves me to wonder about the
> replacement vs. your current "functioning" drive.  Check the hp parts
> number... C6xxx-69xxx if its the remanufactured drive or C6xxx-63xxx
> original.  You may want to compare the difference in the firmware revision,
> as the newest firmware aren't always the best way to go in rare cases.  Swap
> the two drives, and see what happens, if you know the one drive haven't been
> giving you problems.  This may help to localize the problem a bit.
> 
> Also, may I suggest looking up the http://itrc.hp.com website for
> information, forum discussion and resources.
> 
> Joe 
> 
>