f



Re: Printer trays.....network printers #4

To _know_ how to address printerX's trays, you have to have a manual for
printerX, 'read it like a love letter' (thanks Alfredo), and experiment.
You might get lucky with a similar printer (and you can bet that other
vendors bent over backward trying to handle whatever might come down the 'hp
PCL' pipe), but luck goes both ways.

The days of early laserjets were an exciting time, with a new model on the
scene every other month.  So what could we expect re consistency?  Maybe a
little more than we got, but mostly in the form of available and accurate
documentation - most of the PCL changes I've been aware of have actually
been pretty logical at least at the time; figuring out what the docs meant
was often a bit less than straightforward.

Remember, this is hp, and we're talking about huge dollars in terms of
market share.  Prompt and accurate documentation of the de facto standard
would cut into sales thereof, no?


*correct me please someone?  As I understand it, the reason hp appears on
virtually all early, and a very good percentage of recent laser printers is
not that hp 'invent'ed them, but rather that hp had PCL, a reasonably mature
and adaptable language for communicating with Canon's new laser engine.  How
the contracts betwixt hp & Canon actually worked, I dunno, but hp won the
big prize, industry 'standard'.  Other than PCL, hp's contribution to the
laser printer world is marketing (and of course claimed 100% hp-laserjet
compatibility;-)

Tracy Pierce






> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Pitman [mailto:jpitman@ryco.com.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:29 PM
> To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
> Subject: Re: Printer trays.....network printers
>
>
> Thanks again.
> Hopefully I wont have to work on an 8000, or the 5si. We have
> a Xerox N17
> that does duplex, but not from the 3000, and nobody complains
> about problems
> with it.
> The irritating thing about the PCL docos is I haven't seen
> two versions of
> tray selection parms the same - the explanations of values 2-6 are all
> different. On the Xerox E&l2H through E&l5H all select from
> lower tray.
> Xerox number the proper trays 1 and 2, where HP call the
> manual feeder Tray
> 1, the others 2 through n.
> Anyway this NPCONFIG setup definitely works for the Xerox,
> and SEEMS to work
> for HP2300:-
> std top tray:
> 604     (network_address = 192.168.2.144
>               BANNER_INTRAY = 1
>               DATA_INTRAY = 1
>               poll_interval = 4
>               poll_interval_max = 4
>               data_timeout = 20
>               jam_recovery = false
>               pjl_supported = false
>               snmp_enabled = FALSE
>               DEFAULT_PAGE_SIZE = 26
>               setup_file = tray1.hpenv.sys
>               message_interval = 0)
> lower tray always:
> 607     (network_address = 192.168.2.144
>               poll_interval = 4
>               poll_interval_max = 4
>               data_timeout = 20
>               jam_recovery = false
>               pjl_supported = false
>               snmp_enabled = FALSE
>               DEFAULT_PAGE_SIZE = 26
>               setup_file = tray5.hpenv.sys
>               message_interval = 0)
>
> tray5.hpenv contains:-
> E&l5H
> tray1.hpenv contains
> E&l1H
> obviously
> as the program driving this sets up portrait/landscape
> itself. the Default
> paper line is because we always use A4 here.
>
> I say SEEMS for HP2300, as I need to do some production
> volume on it to be
> sure. Last time I thought I had it working, it failed to
> select properly
> under load - many small spool files coming in a continuous
> line. Will let
> you know when we have been there. With the local Xerox I did a loop of
> printing one page alternately to top and bottom trays on the
> two different
> ldevs, with marked paper in lower tray, and it worked
> reliably. The 2300 is
> on other side of continent, and I have to ask people there to
> tell me what
> came out......
> If it works, I think I will stick to tray selection, its
> easier telling
> people which paper to put where.
>
> cheers,
> jp
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tracy Pierce" <TPierce@goldengate.org>
> To: "'John Pitman'" <jpitman@ryco.com.au>
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:44 AM
> Subject: RE: Printer trays.....network printers
>
>
> > > You are spending more time on this than I am!!! Thanks for
> > > esc sequences...
> >
> > maybe so (sorry?)!  Please post results, including the esc
> sequences,
> after
> > you test?  We'd all like to gain better control of our printers;
> > tray-not-papertype selection has long been a real problem,
> and addressing
> > papertype selection was/is clearly superior.
> >
> > I was interested in this problem largely because it was SO
> frustrating
> > trying to get HP to acknowledge even the existence of PCL
> beyond 5; it was
> > at least 4 years after my initial attempts to make this barely even
> > semi-documented feature work that I finally found PCL5e &
> PCL6 to be named
> > entities; actually finding docs was welcome, if not amazing.
> >
> > You'll have a ball discovering HP's treatment of duplex
> with at least the
> > 5siMX and 8100 laserjets - the hardware wants to print the
> back first, so
> it
> > does (and this is required to meet claimed print speeds).
> This cheat goes
> > undetected unless you're using paper that's different
> front-to-back, like
> > letterhead or prepunch.  The big fix which largely hides
> the problem is in
> > the Windoze driver, which does all the work of shuffling
> the passed file
> so
> > that page 2 is presented as page 1 & vice-versa.  While
> that's very nice
> for
> > Windoze users, it's not so nice for HP3000 users - no such
> under-the-hood
> > 'driver'.
> >
> > We routinely drive our Operator bananas by keeping the 3-hole paper
> > backwards in the tray to accomodate duplex printing (the majority);
> > presenting simplex to it then comes out backward.  That's
> easy enough, but
> > when you print from Windows, duplex is once again backward.
>  (so we're
> back
> > to tray control anyway, right?)
> >
> > Good luck, John.  Oh, feel free to post this too.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > they do not appear in my PCL5 manual- dated 1992! It goes
> from E&l to
> > > E&p...there are also differences in explanations in the E&lxH
> > > list in your
> > > link to those in my manual.
> > > Looks like it now works using E&l5H for bottom tray selection
> > > on the HP2300,
> > > where the Xerox will select bottom with anything from 2
> to 5. Nice std
> > > behaviour, I love it.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all your help here.
> > > jp
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tracy Pierce" <TPierce@goldengate.org>
> > > To: "'John Pitman'" <jpitman@ryco.com.au>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 4:55 AM
> > > Subject: RE: Printer trays.....network printers
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/bpl106
> > > 29/bpl10629.pd
> > > > f
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: John Pitman [mailto:jpitman@ryco.com.au]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 5:09 PM
> > > > > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
> > > > > Subject: Re: Printer trays.....network printers
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks to all who responded.....
> > > > > I eventually did some tests trying to write to this printer
> > > > > with the tray
> > > > > selection PENV file via fcopy, and got errors back re the
> > > > > PENV file. I wish
> > > > > there had been a utility for writing these files somewhere,
> > > > > would make life
> > > > > a lot easier. Notes just say driver removes leading and
> > > > > trailing blanks,
> > > > > sends whatever is left to printer. But it errors if the rec
> > > > > len is not 512W,
> > > > > file type not PENV, if data is followed by a mix of blanks and
> > > > > nulls......very unfriendly. I must have missed that
> > > lesson at school.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, in the end I got a PENV file that did not error with
> > > > > fcopy, and now
> > > > > the Xerox printer does what I want in regard to trays. Now to
> > > > > test it on the
> > > > > (sadly) VERY remote hp2300 - 3 time zones away.
> > > > >  Tracy - when  I  define different papers in the trays, how
> > > > > would I select
> > > > > by paper type? Cant see a command in PCL 5 (book to hand),
> > > > > cant find a PCL 6
> > > > > manual that discusses such a command....
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks,
> > > > > jp
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Goetz Neumann" <goetz.neumann@hp.com>
> > > > > To: <HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:33 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Printer trays.....network printers
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > John Pitman wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I define a Xerox printer with two Ldev nos, with
> > > > > data_intray=1 on one
> > > > > > > ldev, and data_intray = 4 on the other, I can send
> > > > > interleaved spool
> > > > > files
> > > > > > > to them and it works beautifully. If I remove data_intray
> > > > > = 4, and try
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > use setup_file=x.hpenv where x contains <Esc>&l4H  (PCL
> > > > > for use lower
> > > > > tray),
> > > > > > > nothing works, it doesnt even rotate to landscape
> > > (understand that
> > > > > part). If
> > > > > > > I embed the esc sequence in the data at start it works,
> > > > > but thats not a
> > > > > > > viable solution. In fact if I send the tray value
> > > > > anything from 2 to 5,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > uses bottom tray.
> > > > > > >  I want to use this on an HP2300 laserjet, but it looks
> > > > > like these later
> > > > > > > models dont respond to PJL Data_intray
> > > > > commands.....something I saw on
> > > > > ITRC
> > > > > > > . So, how do I get this printer to work please?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I fail to understand why including the PCL command into your
> > > > > > setup_file does not work but it works when you
> insert it into
> > > > > > the data.
> > > > > > Your setup_file is fixed,ascii,unnumbered or bytestream  and
> > > > > > <Esc> is indeed a byte with decimal value of 27 ?
> > > > > > Is there indication that other PCL commands in this
> setup file
> > > > > > are recognized ?  Did you fully qualify the
> setup_file name in
> > > > > > NPCONFIG ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You don't have any global data_intray option in
> > > NPCONFIG, do you ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Goetz.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the PCL command works in the data body, then we
> should get
> > > > > > it working in the setup_file as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list
> > > settings, *
> > > > > > * etc., please visit
> > > http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
> > > > >
> > > > > * To
> > > join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
> > > > > * etc., please visit
> http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
> > > > >
> > >
>
> *
> To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
>

* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

0
Tracy
1/8/2004 7:02:10 PM
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Tracy,

First, printer itself must be configured appropriately: when using multiple
trays, if each tray holds different size (letter, legal, A4, etc) and/or
TYPE of paper (plain, colored, letterhead, etc.) you should set those at
printer level, in menu settings.  If you don't, printer may "intelligently"
switch from an empty tray to another when it becomes empty.

Then, as for data_intray value to use in npconfig, simply use corresponding
number to what manual shows as "[esc]&l#H" value.

For example, my LaserJet 4100 manual shows the following tray settings:

  0 = prints or ejects current page
  1 = Tray 2
  2 = manual feed, paper
  3 = manual feed, envelope
  4 = Tray 1
  5 = Tray 3
  6 = Envelope Feeder
  7 = auto select
  8 = Tray 4
  20-69 = external trays

So, if I want to print from tray 3, I'll use "data_intray = 5", if I want to
use tray 2, I'll use "data_intray = 2", etc.

Hope this will help !
--
=========================================
Denis  (Remove "removeit." from email address)
=========================================
"Tracy Pierce" <TPierce@goldengate.org> wrote in message
news:576dndRHktOuNGCiRVn-gw@fidnet.com...
> To _know_ how to address printerX's trays, you have to have a manual for
> printerX, 'read it like a love letter' (thanks Alfredo), and experiment.
> You might get lucky with a similar printer (and you can bet that other
> vendors bent over backward trying to handle whatever might come down the
'hp
> PCL' pipe), but luck goes both ways.
>
> The days of early laserjets were an exciting time, with a new model on the
> scene every other month.  So what could we expect re consistency?  Maybe a
> little more than we got, but mostly in the form of available and accurate
> documentation - most of the PCL changes I've been aware of have actually
> been pretty logical at least at the time; figuring out what the docs meant
> was often a bit less than straightforward.
>
> Remember, this is hp, and we're talking about huge dollars in terms of
> market share.  Prompt and accurate documentation of the de facto standard
> would cut into sales thereof, no?
>
>
> *correct me please someone?  As I understand it, the reason hp appears on
> virtually all early, and a very good percentage of recent laser printers
is
> not that hp 'invent'ed them, but rather that hp had PCL, a reasonably
mature
> and adaptable language for communicating with Canon's new laser engine.
How
> the contracts betwixt hp & Canon actually worked, I dunno, but hp won the
> big prize, industry 'standard'.  Other than PCL, hp's contribution to the
> laser printer world is marketing (and of course claimed 100% hp-laserjet
> compatibility;-)
>
> Tracy Pierce
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Pitman [mailto:jpitman@ryco.com.au]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:29 PM
> > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Printer trays.....network printers
> >
> >
> > Thanks again.
> > Hopefully I wont have to work on an 8000, or the 5si. We have
> > a Xerox N17
> > that does duplex, but not from the 3000, and nobody complains
> > about problems
> > with it.
> > The irritating thing about the PCL docos is I haven't seen
> > two versions of
> > tray selection parms the same - the explanations of values 2-6 are all
> > different. On the Xerox E&l2H through E&l5H all select from
> > lower tray.
> > Xerox number the proper trays 1 and 2, where HP call the
> > manual feeder Tray
> > 1, the others 2 through n.
> > Anyway this NPCONFIG setup definitely works for the Xerox,
> > and SEEMS to work
> > for HP2300:-
> > std top tray:
> > 604     (network_address = 192.168.2.144
> >               BANNER_INTRAY = 1
> >               DATA_INTRAY = 1
> >               poll_interval = 4
> >               poll_interval_max = 4
> >               data_timeout = 20
> >               jam_recovery = false
> >               pjl_supported = false
> >               snmp_enabled = FALSE
> >               DEFAULT_PAGE_SIZE = 26
> >               setup_file = tray1.hpenv.sys
> >               message_interval = 0)
> > lower tray always:
> > 607     (network_address = 192.168.2.144
> >               poll_interval = 4
> >               poll_interval_max = 4
> >               data_timeout = 20
> >               jam_recovery = false
> >               pjl_supported = false
> >               snmp_enabled = FALSE
> >               DEFAULT_PAGE_SIZE = 26
> >               setup_file = tray5.hpenv.sys
> >               message_interval = 0)
> >
> > tray5.hpenv contains:-
> > E&l5H
> > tray1.hpenv contains
> > E&l1H
> > obviously
> > as the program driving this sets up portrait/landscape
> > itself. the Default
> > paper line is because we always use A4 here.
> >
> > I say SEEMS for HP2300, as I need to do some production
> > volume on it to be
> > sure. Last time I thought I had it working, it failed to
> > select properly
> > under load - many small spool files coming in a continuous
> > line. Will let
> > you know when we have been there. With the local Xerox I did a loop of
> > printing one page alternately to top and bottom trays on the
> > two different
> > ldevs, with marked paper in lower tray, and it worked
> > reliably. The 2300 is
> > on other side of continent, and I have to ask people there to
> > tell me what
> > came out......
> > If it works, I think I will stick to tray selection, its
> > easier telling
> > people which paper to put where.
> >
> > cheers,
> > jp
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tracy Pierce" <TPierce@goldengate.org>
> > To: "'John Pitman'" <jpitman@ryco.com.au>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:44 AM
> > Subject: RE: Printer trays.....network printers
> >
> >
> > > > You are spending more time on this than I am!!! Thanks for
> > > > esc sequences...
> > >
> > > maybe so (sorry?)!  Please post results, including the esc
> > sequences,
> > after
> > > you test?  We'd all like to gain better control of our printers;
> > > tray-not-papertype selection has long been a real problem,
> > and addressing
> > > papertype selection was/is clearly superior.
> > >
> > > I was interested in this problem largely because it was SO
> > frustrating
> > > trying to get HP to acknowledge even the existence of PCL
> > beyond 5; it was
> > > at least 4 years after my initial attempts to make this barely even
> > > semi-documented feature work that I finally found PCL5e &
> > PCL6 to be named
> > > entities; actually finding docs was welcome, if not amazing.
> > >
> > > You'll have a ball discovering HP's treatment of duplex
> > with at least the
> > > 5siMX and 8100 laserjets - the hardware wants to print the
> > back first, so
> > it
> > > does (and this is required to meet claimed print speeds).
> > This cheat goes
> > > undetected unless you're using paper that's different
> > front-to-back, like
> > > letterhead or prepunch.  The big fix which largely hides
> > the problem is in
> > > the Windoze driver, which does all the work of shuffling
> > the passed file
> > so
> > > that page 2 is presented as page 1 & vice-versa.  While
> > that's very nice
> > for
> > > Windoze users, it's not so nice for HP3000 users - no such
> > under-the-hood
> > > 'driver'.
> > >
> > > We routinely drive our Operator bananas by keeping the 3-hole paper
> > > backwards in the tray to accomodate duplex printing (the majority);
> > > presenting simplex to it then comes out backward.  That's
> > easy enough, but
> > > when you print from Windows, duplex is once again backward.
> >  (so we're
> > back
> > > to tray control anyway, right?)
> > >
> > > Good luck, John.  Oh, feel free to post this too.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > they do not appear in my PCL5 manual- dated 1992! It goes
> > from E&l to
> > > > E&p...there are also differences in explanations in the E&lxH
> > > > list in your
> > > > link to those in my manual.
> > > > Looks like it now works using E&l5H for bottom tray selection
> > > > on the HP2300,
> > > > where the Xerox will select bottom with anything from 2
> > to 5. Nice std
> > > > behaviour, I love it.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for all your help here.
> > > > jp
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Tracy Pierce" <TPierce@goldengate.org>
> > > > To: "'John Pitman'" <jpitman@ryco.com.au>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 4:55 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: Printer trays.....network printers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/bpl106
> > > > 29/bpl10629.pd
> > > > > f
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: John Pitman [mailto:jpitman@ryco.com.au]
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 5:09 PM
> > > > > > To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Printer trays.....network printers
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks to all who responded.....
> > > > > > I eventually did some tests trying to write to this printer
> > > > > > with the tray
> > > > > > selection PENV file via fcopy, and got errors back re the
> > > > > > PENV file. I wish
> > > > > > there had been a utility for writing these files somewhere,
> > > > > > would make life
> > > > > > a lot easier. Notes just say driver removes leading and
> > > > > > trailing blanks,
> > > > > > sends whatever is left to printer. But it errors if the rec
> > > > > > len is not 512W,
> > > > > > file type not PENV, if data is followed by a mix of blanks and
> > > > > > nulls......very unfriendly. I must have missed that
> > > > lesson at school.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, in the end I got a PENV file that did not error with
> > > > > > fcopy, and now
> > > > > > the Xerox printer does what I want in regard to trays. Now to
> > > > > > test it on the
> > > > > > (sadly) VERY remote hp2300 - 3 time zones away.
> > > > > >  Tracy - when  I  define different papers in the trays, how
> > > > > > would I select
> > > > > > by paper type? Cant see a command in PCL 5 (book to hand),
> > > > > > cant find a PCL 6
> > > > > > manual that discusses such a command....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks,
> > > > > > jp
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Goetz Neumann" <goetz.neumann@hp.com>
> > > > > > To: <HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU>
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:33 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Printer trays.....network printers
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > John Pitman wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If I define a Xerox printer with two Ldev nos, with
> > > > > > data_intray=1 on one
> > > > > > > > ldev, and data_intray = 4 on the other, I can send
> > > > > > interleaved spool
> > > > > > files
> > > > > > > > to them and it works beautifully. If I remove data_intray
> > > > > > = 4, and try
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > use setup_file=x.hpenv where x contains <Esc>&l4H  (PCL
> > > > > > for use lower
> > > > > > tray),
> > > > > > > > nothing works, it doesnt even rotate to landscape
> > > > (understand that
> > > > > > part). If
> > > > > > > > I embed the esc sequence in the data at start it works,
> > > > > > but thats not a
> > > > > > > > viable solution. In fact if I send the tray value
> > > > > > anything from 2 to 5,
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > uses bottom tray.
> > > > > > > >  I want to use this on an HP2300 laserjet, but it looks
> > > > > > like these later
> > > > > > > > models dont respond to PJL Data_intray
> > > > > > commands.....something I saw on
> > > > > > ITRC
> > > > > > > > . So, how do I get this printer to work please?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I fail to understand why including the PCL command into your
> > > > > > > setup_file does not work but it works when you
> > insert it into
> > > > > > > the data.
> > > > > > > Your setup_file is fixed,ascii,unnumbered or bytestream  and
> > > > > > > <Esc> is indeed a byte with decimal value of 27 ?
> > > > > > > Is there indication that other PCL commands in this
> > setup file
> > > > > > > are recognized ?  Did you fully qualify the
> > setup_file name in
> > > > > > > NPCONFIG ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You don't have any global data_intray option in
> > > > NPCONFIG, do you ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Goetz.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the PCL command works in the data body, then we
> > should get
> > > > > > > it working in the setup_file as well.
> > > > > > >
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> > > > > >
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> > > > > > * etc., please visit
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> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> > *
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> >
>
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>


0
Denis
1/9/2004 3:12:54 PM
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