I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
Here is the link:
http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

YAY!!!!:

1) The "apostrophe" and "EVAL" keys are back (where they belong) as a
primary keys.
2) 75MHz!?!?  I hope the batteries last.



BOOOO!!!:

1) That damned "HIST" key is a waste.  Only there to make algebraic mode
work like the vastly superior RPN.
2) Why not print the "SWAP" "VIEW" "PICTURE" and "STACK" functions where
they belong?  This must also be to cater to the algebraic mode?


But, as long as the keys are not loose and mushy, like a TI, I'm probably
gonna get me one!

Tennessee Tom







"Gregorio Munoz" <gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com...
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in message news:<8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com>...
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php


It seems nice, the only point that could let people doubt (about the
pdf file provided in this page on hpcalc) is :

Document's properties in Acrobat reader :

Title : 49G+ Presentation
Author : Eric Rechlin

(Please note that I have no idea about this document being forged or
not, it's just a thought)

Camille

Upon the seeing the link:
1)  Nice colors, keyboard is less cluttered than the original HP49.
2)  X-Root function (the #1 complaint from the TI users of the 89)
3)  Hopefull the SD cards will be affordable.
4)  I like the USB port, HP has stepped into the new century.

On a side note, as an owner of 14 TI calculators, I never remembered
had one with rubbery, mushy keys.



"Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message news:<Q3MWa.8946$u_3.7623@news02.roc.ny>...
> YAY!!!!:
> 
> 1) The "apostrophe" and "EVAL" keys are back (where they belong) as a
> primary keys.
> 2) 75MHz!?!?  I hope the batteries last.
> 
> 
> 
> BOOOO!!!:
> 
> 1) That damned "HIST" key is a waste.  Only there to make algebraic mode
> work like the vastly superior RPN.
> 2) Why not print the "SWAP" "VIEW" "PICTURE" and "STACK" functions where
> they belong?  This must also be to cater to the algebraic mode?
> 
> 
> But, as long as the keys are not loose and mushy, like a TI, I'm probably
> gonna get me one!
> 
> Tennessee Tom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Gregorio Munoz" <gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com...
> > I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> > Here is the link:
> > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

In infinite wisdom Gregorio Munoz answered:
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

Noted in the presentation...

	- Numerical range: exponent from -4999 to +4999

	- number if steps/regs or bytes: 1.2 MB (??)

	- numberof programs/formulae: ++        (??)

	- levels of subroutines: ++             (??)

Looks like some things have not yet been nailed down.

Also I think that with SD as storage, there's
no need for lots of onboard flash. With the 49G,
the onboard flash is it.

As for the display size, was not the Saturn more or
less hardwired for 131x64, which makes the new 131x80
rather interesting. Since the processor is not a
Saturn, but an ARM, clearly they had to build a new
display driver, so I guess there was room for improvement.
The TI-89 is 160x100. I wonder about contrast.

Nontheless, this is very interesting.

The ARM is more powerful than the 68K in the TI. But if
it's emulating the Saturn, it might be a wash.

Rich

In infinite wisdom Camille answered:
> gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in message news:<8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com>...
> 
>>I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
>>Here is the link:
>>http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
> 
>
> It seems nice, the only point that could let people doubt (about the
> pdf file provided in this page on hpcalc) is :
> 
> Document's properties in Acrobat reader :
> 
> Title : 49G+ Presentation
> Author : Eric Rechlin

Yeah, I noticed this as well. But I did not immediately note this

	Part of the HP Calculator Archive,
	Copyright 1997-2003 Eric Rechlin.

at the bottom of the hpacal web-page.
	 http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

I also note that nothing in the document properties says HP.

And while the date on the bottom of the slides is 7.22.03, the
document creation date is "Fri Aug 01 21:23:33 2003". Seems the
document was created about 17 days after it's revision date.
Curious that.

I'd be very uncomfortable in assuming that this document is from
HP at this point. And if it were, would not HP come knocking at his
door demanding it's removal? They've done so when calculator sites
just used the HP logo. I'd imagine that for displaying a "confidential"
internal document, they would get a tad more upset. But maybe I'm
way off base here.

Rich



> (Please note that I have no idea about this document being forged or
> not, it's just a thought)
> 
> Camille

In infinite wisdom Rich answered:

[...]


> And while the date on the bottom of the slides is 7.22.03, the
> document creation date is "Fri Aug 01 21:23:33 2003". Seems the
> document was created about 17 days after it's revision date.
> Curious that.

Opps, just noticed, "Aug 01", not Sept 01. Never mind this part.

Rich

On 2/8/03 17:22, in article _GQWa.11474$Cx4.1170388@news20.bellglobal.com,
"Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote:

> Kinpo Electronics? What's that?
> 
> Thanks for the link. I am NOT impressed, however.

In French I would say: "T'es lourd!"

You're not impressed and you haven't even seen this new calculator... Always
talking rubbish without any actual knowledge of what things are..
Or I would say "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme"

Jean-Yves

In infinite wisdom Jean-Yves Avenard answered:
> On 2/8/03 17:22, in article _GQWa.11474$Cx4.1170388@news20.bellglobal.com,
> "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Kinpo Electronics? What's that?
>>
>>Thanks for the link. I am NOT impressed, however.
> 
> 
> In French I would say: "T'es lourd!"
> 
> You're not impressed and you haven't even seen this new calculator... Always
> talking rubbish without any actual knowledge of what things are..

It looks like you two know each other.

But he may be right as for "the way things are".

Kinpo builds the latest (new) HP's (which are simply branded HP).

	http://www.kinpo.com.tw/English/Calculator.htm

Personally, they don't impress me as a high-end manufacturer, and
I bought one to play with.

It also looks like a good bet that the document is not from HP.

But HP has promised that new calcs are coming, time will tell.

Rich

> Or I would say "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme"
> 
> Jean-Yves
> 

Yes, he may be right. But then, there are ways to say things politely. And
by the way, no, we never met, except on this newsgroup, at a time when he
was much more civil.

"Rich" <someone@somwehere.com> wrote in message
news:3F2C2BE3.6090901@somwehere.com...
>
>
> In infinite wisdom Jean-Yves Avenard answered:
> > On 2/8/03 17:22, in article
_GQWa.11474$Cx4.1170388@news20.bellglobal.com,
> > "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Kinpo Electronics? What's that?
> >>
> >>Thanks for the link. I am NOT impressed, however.
> >
> >
> > In French I would say: "T'es lourd!"
> >
> > You're not impressed and you haven't even seen this new calculator...
Always
> > talking rubbish without any actual knowledge of what things are..
>
> It looks like you two know each other.
>
> But he may be right as for "the way things are".
>
> Kinpo builds the latest (new) HP's (which are simply branded HP).
>
> http://www.kinpo.com.tw/English/Calculator.htm
>
> Personally, they don't impress me as a high-end manufacturer, and
> I bought one to play with.
>
> It also looks like a good bet that the document is not from HP.
>
> But HP has promised that new calcs are coming, time will tell.
>
> Rich
>
> > Or I would say "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme"
> >
> > Jean-Yves
> >
>

"Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.370996@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I reserve the right to express my opinion AS I want, WHEN I want, and
> DESPITE anyone else's opinion.
No, you don't! The French court has taken away your 5th A. rights!
(-;
> I have seen the picture. I repeat: I AM NOT IMPRESSED!
> I am also very skeptical. The keyboard, for one thing, doesn't add up. F1
to
> F6 look like the 49's rubber keys, so do the keys below the arrow keys,
but
> the keys at the side of that arrow keys look like 48's plastic keys. So
> which one is it?

Would you be impressed if the keys were (slippery) plastic ???

> A 75 MHz processor? How many times a week will I have to change the
> batteries?
Twice ???
(-;
> A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
> from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true, which
I
> doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
digits
> long? Do you REALLY believe that?

Must be either a marketing gimmec and thus a typo
OR the whole thing is a fake and we all have been fooled (once again)

> What ELSE is there (beside the SD port which will nodoubt require a
special,
> HP-only SD card, available from selected dealers for the kind of price
that
> the new exponent capabilities have probably been built for)?

The new HP think it's too expensive to have a HP special format
and thus any SD would be standard SD. Thanks to Fiorina?!
(this was very strange thing to say, but we live very strange days)

> I don't even believe it! Why should I be impressed?
Haa! Admit that you believed enough to write a news message!!!
Yes - IF IT IS TRUE - then you should be so suprised that you fell off
your...

> Or do you know something we don't? If not, Mr. Frenchman, I return your
> compliment to you! And, by the way, I read, speak and write French. So
don't
> believe for an instant that your comments have gone unnoticed.

> > In French I would say: "T'es lourd!"
What?

> > Or I would say "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme"
Translation, please!

I hate it when people use a language which I don't know
VPN <murmuring something strange in Finnish>

Rich <someone@somwehere.com> wrote in message news:<3F2BDEC9.8010706@somwehere.com>...
> The ARM is more powerful than the 68K in the TI. But if
> it's emulating the Saturn, it might be a wash.
? I doubt HP would go out of their way to make access to the
underlying architecture hard. Even if they did, people would probably
find a way to bypass it.

What would Eric Rechlin have to gain by composing and displaying an
obviously false document - Thought Bush & co had the monopoly on that at
present.
Dave Holland

"Rich" <someone@somwehere.com> wrote in message
news:3F2C02B6.9070306@somwehere.com...
>
>
> In infinite wisdom Camille answered:
> > gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in message
news:<8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com>...
> >
> >>I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> >>Here is the link:
> >>http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
> >
> >
> > It seems nice, the only point that could let people doubt (about the
> > pdf file provided in this page on hpcalc) is :
> >
> > Document's properties in Acrobat reader :
> >
> > Title : 49G+ Presentation
> > Author : Eric Rechlin
>
> Yeah, I noticed this as well. But I did not immediately note this
>
> Part of the HP Calculator Archive,
> Copyright 1997-2003 Eric Rechlin.
>
> at the bottom of the hpacal web-page.
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
>
> I also note that nothing in the document properties says HP.
>
> And while the date on the bottom of the slides is 7.22.03, the
> document creation date is "Fri Aug 01 21:23:33 2003". Seems the
> document was created about 17 days after it's revision date.
> Curious that.
>
> I'd be very uncomfortable in assuming that this document is from
> HP at this point. And if it were, would not HP come knocking at his
> door demanding it's removal? They've done so when calculator sites
> just used the HP logo. I'd imagine that for displaying a "confidential"
> internal document, they would get a tad more upset. But maybe I'm
> way off base here.
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> > (Please note that I have no idea about this document being forged or
> > not, it's just a thought)
> >
> > Camille
>

"Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
news:eeYWa.17749$xC4.5474@news02.roc.ny...
> Y'all have me worried now!
Don't worry - be happy!

> Isn't Kinpo Electronics a manufacturer of other brands, like Casio?  That
> could account for the keys looking the same.

That's it! You guessed it!

> The power issue is what gets me the most.  Does anybody know of a document
> for the ARM processor where one could find the power consumption of an
ARM9
> at 75MHz?  I did some looking, and was unable to find power data.

The running power equals Saturn, but how about the power savings mode?
Only true and pure CMOS can go really low frequency..

> Are there any other handheld devices that use the ARM9 at 75MHz?

They usually operate at 206MHz, which explains the large current draw.
If then device is not using a 180nm, but 130nm then the Voltage is also low
I would guess 1.8V instead of 3V (or 5V). A future model could be even
lower.
* That is IF THIS IS * not a hoax
????
VPN

"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message news:<0PXWa.4297$HC4.4022@reader1.news.jippii.net>...
> "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.370996@news20.bellglobal.com...

> > A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
> > from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true, which
>  I
> > doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
>  digits
> > long? Do you REALLY believe that?
> 
> Must be either a marketing gimmec and thus a typo
> OR the whole thing is a fake and we all have been fooled (once again)

Funny: you really should believe that part, as even your good old HP48 had
this internal precision.
Example: #2A458h SYSEVAL gives you pi... (on the 48) with 15 digits precision.
#2B0F2h SYSEVAL gives you 10^10000.

You don't need that precision, but some functions you use need it to be exact
with 12 digits, +/-499 exponent.

Camille

"Camille" <camille_mic@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:b88deca7.0308030051.543640ff@posting.google.com...
> "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
news:<0PXWa.4297$HC4.4022@reader1.news.jippii.net>...
> > "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.370996@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> > > A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent

THIS SHOULD BE -499 to +499

It's not funny, Camille, it's a typo!
VPN

> > > from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true,
which
> >  I
> > > doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
> >  digits
> > > long? Do you REALLY believe that?
> >
> > Must be either a marketing gimmec and thus a typo
> > OR the whole thing is a fake and we all have been fooled (once again)
>
> Funny: you really should believe that part, as even your good old HP48 had
> this internal precision.
> Example: #2A458h SYSEVAL gives you pi... (on the 48) with 15 digits
precision.
> #2B0F2h SYSEVAL gives you 10^10000.
>
> You don't need that precision, but some functions you use need it to be
exact
> with 12 digits, +/-499 exponent.
>
> Camille

> 
> Document's properties in Acrobat reader :
> 
> Title : 49G+ Presentation
> Author : Eric Rechlin
> 
> (Please note that I have no idea about this document being forged or
> not, it's just a thought)
> 

It might have been converted from the original document,
which also does explain the overall poor quality of the
pdf.

Harald

-- 
For spam do not remove n_o_s_p_a_m from email address

gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in message news:<8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com>...
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

Wow, this is either legit or a very well planned hoax. Assuming the
calculator is real, it sounds fantastic! I'm relieved the CPU is
(supposedly) upgraded - that was my biggest complaint with the '49G.
I'm not really sure what the point of SD cards are though - I haven't
filled up my '49G yet. Then again an 75MHz CPU opens up more
possibilities (see below...)

For the rest of this post, I'm gonna pretend the calculator is real (I
hope it is!)

--------

Here are some unconventional (and not-so-serious) applications for it
(besides a maths monster):

*Low Speed CRO / Spectrum Analyiser - Add a PIC/HC11 and ADC, and you
have a cheap but useful instrument for the lab

*Logic Analyiser - Cheap tool for digital circuit analyises

*TV Remote Control - It supposedly has an IR port?

*Distributed.Net client - 'nuff said ;-)

*MP3 Player - It should already have a piezo speaker, or add an
external DAC and amplifier for decent quality. Store the MP3's on SD
cards.

*Wireless Network - Total stupidity on a calculator, but you can get
wireless cards in SD form factor. Now we just need someone to write a
driver...

*Great games. Finally we can have HP-Doom.

*High speed Datalogger. Add an ADC, and read\write write samples to
the SD card.

Can anyone add any more unconventional uses?

---

Note that most of these gadgets relay on external hardware. If the
calc had a serial port then interfacing it would be easy. IRDA is
annoying, because it needs line-of-sight. USB would be almost
impossible to use without information provided by HP (or the
designers, if HP didn't do anything itself).

***It would be *wonderful* if HP could release the details on the USB
interface. Then maybe someone could make a 'Parallel Breakout Box'
that plugs into the USB port, to provide bidirectional I/O for other
applications.***

It might work by having a byte wide port, and some control lines (like
the PC parallel port). Programs could then call 3rd party I/O commands
to talk to the port.

If the calculator was real, and UB interfacing details became public,
I'd have a go at designing it myself...

cheers,

Alistair

"Al Borowski" <a.borowski@student.qut.edu.au> wrote in message
news:27bf520c.0308030308.2ffbbd9f@posting.google.com...
X
> For the rest of this post, I'm gonna pretend the calculator is real (I
> hope it is!)
> --------
> *TV Remote Control - It supposedly has an IR port?
Neat idea!

> *MP3 Player - It should already have a piezo speaker, or add an
> external DAC and amplifier for decent quality. Store the MP3's on SD
> cards.
Not directly from HP 49G OS?

> *Wireless Network - Total stupidity on a calculator, but you can get
> wireless cards in SD form factor. Now we just need someone to write a
> driver...
That requires SDIO slot, so I don't think so...

> *Great games. Finally we can have HP-Doom.
Hey! You're right!!!
X
> ***It would be *wonderful* if HP could release the details on the USB
> interface. Then maybe someone could make a 'Parallel Breakout Box'
> that plugs into the USB port, to provide bidirectional I/O for other
> applications.***

AND think about USB Flash, USB peripherals like camera, scanner, etc..

Oh, I wish this is true...
VPN - still somewhat sceptic

"Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
news:io6Xa.19$_a4.6197@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hello, VPN!
>
> (1) The h-e-double hockey stick with the French Court, as I'm sure you
> agree.
>
> (2) What I am not impressed about is that the two different types of keys
> make the thing look so FAKE! I'd rather have 48-type keys, of course.
>
> (3) I made such a long post because Mr. JYA incensed me with his remarks
in
> French. You're right, it's not polite to write in another language than
the
> one used by the -- vast -- majority. Still, it's his right. Here are the
> translations:
>
> "T'es lourd!": Never heard that one. Must be a French colloquialism. I
could
> translate as: "You're so thick!" or any other expression referring to my
> difficulty at understanding even the simplest notions.

Like "Midhead" from archie Bunker?! (-;

> "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme": "If you don't know anything, just
shut
> up!" or something like that.

That's Jean-Yves that. Ahh - that French attitude!

> Have a nice day. How do you say that in Finnish?
Hyv�� p�iv�n_jatkoa!
the _ is just to help the the following word-for-word translation:
(Good day's_continue)
VPN
PS: I love you both - actually I love you all
    {maybe I just like Bhuv (-;  }

In infinite wisdom Tennessee Tom answered:
> Y'all have me worried now!
>=20
> Isn't Kinpo Electronics a manufacturer of other brands, like Casio?  Th=
at
> could account for the keys looking the same.
>=20
> The power issue is what gets me the most.  Does anybody know of a docum=
ent
> for the ARM processor where one could find the power consumption of an =
ARM9
> at 75MHz?  I did some looking, and was unable to find power data.

It looks like there are three ARM9's.

	http://www.arm.com/armtech/ARM9_Thumb?OpenDocument

Looking at the middle version...

	http://www.arm.com/armtech/ARM922T?OpenDocument

Version		Power (mW/MHz)

ARM920T	0.18=B5	0.42
ARM920T	0.13=B5	0.19
ARM922T	0.18=B5	0.42
ARM922T 0.13=B5	0.19

So at 75MHZ, with the 0.13, we get 9.75mW. With the 0.18 we get 31.5mW.

Here's the summary.

     * ARM920T: Dual 16k caches for applications running Symbian OS, Palm=
 OS,
       Linux and Windows CE
     * ARM922T: Dual 8k caches for applications running Symbian OS, Palm =
OS,
       Linux and Windows CE
     * ARM940T: Dual 4k caches for embedded control applications running =
a RTOS

I think the ARM920T an unlikely choice, and don't know if the ARM940T wou=
ld
be suitable. The ARM922T would be my guess of the processor to be used (i=
f
this is not a hoax).

The main difference seems to be that the 922T and 920T have MMU's, while =
the
940T does not. I doubt that a calculator would need an MMU though.

Rich


> Are there any other handheld devices that use the ARM9 at 75MHz?
>=20
> Tom
>=20
>=20
> "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
> news:gJXWa.4294$HC4.3496@reader1.news.jippii.net...
>=20
>>"Al Arduengo" <exal@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>>news:87brv7n07n.fsf@exal.austin.rr.com...
>>
>>>I would like a new calc as much as the next person but frankly I am no=
t
>>>convinced yet. The pic looks eerily like a 49/48 bastardization and
>>>the strange pdf doc smacks of prank.  If it is real, I will admit my
>>>fault and apologize.  If it is *not* real, I am better for not having
>>>been sucked in.
>>>
>>>Show me the hardware, then I will believe.
>>
>>Is it April 1st already?
>>The photo could be a Casio fake like the olf TI 89 fake.
>>The calculator looks like Casio (the cursor keys) to me.
>>I also want to hold this baby in my hands.
>>
>>Like we Finns put it:
>>I don't believe until I see it - and I still then don't believe it!
>>(-;
>>VPN
>>
>>
>=20
>=20
>=20

Gregorio Munoz <gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

It appears to be at least marginally less ugly than the 49G, though it's
still pretty bad, and it still doesn't have a decent [ENTER] key. At
least it looks less video-game-ish than the 49G, so it wouldn't be quite
as embarrassing if my colleagues saw me with it...

-- 
Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
                           |  your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"

Camille,

Out of curiosity, I tried the command: #2A458h SYSEVAL.
The 48G returns "Long Real" to the stack.
On the 49G, I got big, fat vertical bars and had to remove the batteries to
get the thing back to normal.

Is SYSEVAL something that us regular folks shouldn't try at home?  If you
would care to elaborate on this, i'd be interested.

Also, please explain how the internal exponent can be different from the
external one, maybe giving an example of how this could effect me as a user.
I thought that the MAXR was 9.99999999999E499, which would mean that any
more than 12 significant figures would be lost.

Regards,

Tom





"Camille" <camille_mic@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:b88deca7.0308030051.543640ff@posting.google.com...
> "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
news:<0PXWa.4297$HC4.4022@reader1.news.jippii.net>...
> > "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.370996@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> > > A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
> > > from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true,
which
> >  I
> > > doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
> >  digits
> > > long? Do you REALLY believe that?
> >
> > Must be either a marketing gimmec and thus a typo
> > OR the whole thing is a fake and we all have been fooled (once again)
>
> Funny: you really should believe that part, as even your good old HP48 had
> this internal precision.
> Example: #2A458h SYSEVAL gives you pi... (on the 48) with 15 digits
precision.
> #2B0F2h SYSEVAL gives you 10^10000.
>
> You don't need that precision, but some functions you use need it to be
exact
> with 12 digits, +/-499 exponent.
>
> Camille

"Only true and pure CMOS can go really low frequency.."

Er, shouldn't that be only CMOS uses f* all current at very low frequencies?

Dave Holland


"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
news:bgih51$ovk$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> "Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
> news:eeYWa.17749$xC4.5474@news02.roc.ny...
> > Y'all have me worried now!
> Don't worry - be happy!
>
> > Isn't Kinpo Electronics a manufacturer of other brands, like Casio?
That
> > could account for the keys looking the same.
>
> That's it! You guessed it!
>
> > The power issue is what gets me the most.  Does anybody know of a
document
> > for the ARM processor where one could find the power consumption of an
> ARM9
> > at 75MHz?  I did some looking, and was unable to find power data.
>
> The running power equals Saturn, but how about the power savings mode?
> Only true and pure CMOS can go really low frequency..
>
> > Are there any other handheld devices that use the ARM9 at 75MHz?
>
> They usually operate at 206MHz, which explains the large current draw.
> If then device is not using a 180nm, but 130nm then the Voltage is also
low
> I would guess 1.8V instead of 3V (or 5V). A future model could be even
> lower.
> * That is IF THIS IS * not a hoax
> ????
> VPN
>
>
>

Le dim 03 ao� 2003 04:08:42 GMT, Al Borowski a tapot� sur son clavier :
> gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in message news:<8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com>...
> *Distributed.Net client - 'nuff said ;-)

Hum, I already thought about it for hp48/49 thanks to Usinagaz, but the
problem was the speed, indeed. with a native arm9 core, it could be
something, though :)

> *Wireless Network - Total stupidity on a calculator, but you can get
> wireless cards in SD form factor. Now we just need someone to write a
> driver...

I bet merely rewriting linux' driver for instance (or even compile with
an arm9 cross-compiler ;) ) would work.

my $0.02,
Samuel Thibault

> 
> Like "Midhead" from archie Bunker?! (-;
> 
That should be "Meathead".

rdb.

On 3/8/03 16:30, in article C09Xa.729$Ee7.463@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com,
"Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> so it wouldn't be quite as embarrassing if my colleagues saw me with it...

So sad ....
I pity you

On 3/8/03 12:14, in article bgince$dtc$04$1@news.t-online.com, "Harald Kipp"
<nhoasrpaalmd@egnite.de> wrote:
> It might have been converted from the original document,
> which also does explain the overall poor quality of the
> pdf.

Funny how people always find good explanation that things must be a hoax.
Like when the HP49G was originally announced. Everybody claimed it was a
hoax due to the bad photo quality.

I found the PDF file to be of very good quality, and it certainly looks
legit to me...

Jean-Yves

Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:
> Funny how people always find good explanation that things must be a hoax.
> Like when the HP49G was originally announced. Everybody claimed it was a
> hoax due to the bad photo quality.

There seem to be some folks on here who are ignoring the possibility --
however remote -- that they could have some serious crow to eat.  

-- 
John Miller

Deprive a mirror of its silver and even the Czar won't see his face.

> Funny how people always find good explanation that things must be a hoax.
> Like when the HP49G was originally announced. Everybody claimed it was a
> hoax due to the bad photo quality.
>
> I found the PDF file to be of very good quality, and it certainly looks
> legit to me...

I don't believe any respectable marketing group would describe the material
as simply, "Plastic".  They'd have a fancier name for it such as
Thermoplastic or something.

Tom Lake

Hi Tom,

SYSEVAL is a command which executes the code located at the pointer you
provide to the command itself.  Since the 48 and 49 have vastly
different rom layouts, it means you can rarely use the same address
between platforms even if the command names are the same.  You can find
a cross reference on hpcalc.org that explains the differences as well as
shows how they are mapped between the two.

Best,
-Al

"Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> writes:

> Camille,
>
> Out of curiosity, I tried the command: #2A458h SYSEVAL.
> The 48G returns "Long Real" to the stack.
> On the 49G, I got big, fat vertical bars and had to remove the batteries to
> get the thing back to normal.
>
> Is SYSEVAL something that us regular folks shouldn't try at home?  If you
> would care to elaborate on this, i'd be interested.
>
> Also, please explain how the internal exponent can be different from the
> external one, maybe giving an example of how this could effect me as a user.
> I thought that the MAXR was 9.99999999999E499, which would mean that any
> more than 12 significant figures would be lost.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> "Camille" <camille_mic@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:b88deca7.0308030051.543640ff@posting.google.com...
>> "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
> news:<0PXWa.4297$HC4.4022@reader1.news.jippii.net>...
>> > "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
>> > news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.370996@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>
>> > > A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
>> > > from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true,
> which
>> >  I
>> > > doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
>> >  digits
>> > > long? Do you REALLY believe that?
>> >
>> > Must be either a marketing gimmec and thus a typo
>> > OR the whole thing is a fake and we all have been fooled (once again)
>>
>> Funny: you really should believe that part, as even your good old HP48 had
>> this internal precision.
>> Example: #2A458h SYSEVAL gives you pi... (on the 48) with 15 digits
> precision.
>> #2B0F2h SYSEVAL gives you 10^10000.
>>
>> You don't need that precision, but some functions you use need it to be
> exact
>> with 12 digits, +/-499 exponent.
>>
>> Camille

I have news for you: They already do!

And, no, I won't believe it until I see it! After all, HP had announced the
Expander, and I've never seen one. By the way, how many have been produced?

That product hasn't even been announced yet, and you want us to believe
blindly, as if you were writing some Gospel, that, since you say so, it will
come!

I don't. They don't. Prove us wrong!

"Jean-Yves Avenard" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:BB531863.11B29%me@privacy.net...
> On 2/8/03 23:41, in article 5eWWa.1775$Ji1.370996@news20.bellglobal.com,
> "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote:
> > Or do you know something we don't? If not, Mr. Frenchman, I return your
> > compliment to you! And, by the way, I read, speak and write French. So
don't
> > believe for an instant that your comments have gone unnoticed.
>
> I certainly know that, and that's why I wrote in French, so you understand
> better than others.
>
> I'm just bored of reading your constant bashing over the past few
> months/years over the same points over and over. Which could have been
> summarized at the end with: I won't believe it until I see it. Now you saw
> it but you still find a way to keep bashing it..
> I could have written something like get a life but I doubt I would have
made
> my point.
> But again, I guess that you're thinking that by writing the same thing
over
> and over people will read you more and at the end will agree with you
>
> Jean-Yves
>

I appreciate the info.

Tom


"Al Arduengo" <exal@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:87llua7ext.fsf@exal.austin.rr.com...
> Hi Tom,
>
> SYSEVAL is a command which executes the code located at the pointer you
> provide to the command itself.  Since the 48 and 49 have vastly
> different rom layouts, it means you can rarely use the same address
> between platforms even if the command names are the same.  You can find
> a cross reference on hpcalc.org that explains the differences as well as
> shows how they are mapped between the two.
>
> Best,
> -Al
>
> "Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> writes:
>
> > Camille,
> >
> > Out of curiosity, I tried the command: #2A458h SYSEVAL.
> > The 48G returns "Long Real" to the stack.
> > On the 49G, I got big, fat vertical bars and had to remove the batteries
to
> > get the thing back to normal.
> >
> > Is SYSEVAL something that us regular folks shouldn't try at home?  If
you
> > would care to elaborate on this, i'd be interested.
> >
> > Also, please explain how the internal exponent can be different from the
> > external one, maybe giving an example of how this could effect me as a
user.
> > I thought that the MAXR was 9.99999999999E499, which would mean that any
> > more than 12 significant figures would be lost.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Camille" <camille_mic@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
> > news:b88deca7.0308030051.543640ff@posting.google.com...
> >> "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
> > news:<0PXWa.4297$HC4.4022@reader1.news.jippii.net>...
> >> > "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.370996@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >>
> >> > > A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
> >> > > from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is
true,
> > which
> >> >  I
> >> > > doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers
50000
> >> >  digits
> >> > > long? Do you REALLY believe that?
> >> >
> >> > Must be either a marketing gimmec and thus a typo
> >> > OR the whole thing is a fake and we all have been fooled (once again)
> >>
> >> Funny: you really should believe that part, as even your good old HP48
had
> >> this internal precision.
> >> Example: #2A458h SYSEVAL gives you pi... (on the 48) with 15 digits
> > precision.
> >> #2B0F2h SYSEVAL gives you 10^10000.
> >>
> >> You don't need that precision, but some functions you use need it to be
> > exact
> >> with 12 digits, +/-499 exponent.
> >>
> >> Camille

"Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
news:F9bXa.23276$Bv6.21013@news02.roc.ny...
> Camille,
X
> Also, please explain how the internal exponent can be different from the
> external one, maybe giving an example of how this could effect me as a
user.
> I thought that the MAXR was 9.99999999999E499, which would mean that any
> more than 12 significant figures would be lost.
If you use internally 15 digits then you don't lose accuracy in internal
calculations.
And if the exponent range is more you don't "find" zero too early an you can
handle
bigger number before hitting the "infinity"
VPN

Thanks for the correction.
VPN
"r. d. b�rtschiger." <rdbzhch@swissinfo.org> wrote in message
news:a5978f4c.0308030923.6674a48f@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Like "Midhead" from archie Bunker?! (-;
> >
> That should be "Meathead".
>
> rdb.

"Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:C09Xa.729$Ee7.463@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Gregorio Munoz <gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> > Here is the link:
> > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
>
> It appears to be at least marginally less ugly than the 49G, though it's
> still pretty bad, and it still doesn't have a decent [ENTER] key. At

How do you retain the wide ENTER in the middle and have the cursor
working in the alpha mode, too (no letters on cursor keys) ???
VPN

<snip>

> > *TV Remote Control - It supposedly has an IR port?
> Neat idea!

thanks, but its hardly my idea... (there must be dozens on HPcalc.org)

> 
> > *MP3 Player - It should already have a piezo speaker, or add an
> > external DAC and amplifier for decent quality. Store the MP3's on SD
> > cards.
> Not directly from HP 49G OS?

Well, the average MP3 is 3.5mb, so I think SD storage would be
needed...

The problem is that the calc (assuming its not a hoax, I'm beginning
to think it is)) has only 512kb of RAM - nowhere near enough for a MP3
codec. I was thinking of a small box containing an MP3 chip and
amplifier what would plug into the USB port. That way, all the
calculator has to do is select the MP3, and write it to the player.

http://www.gigatechnology.com/othmodprod.html <-- very expensive, but
a decent concept

http://www.gigatechnology.com/chipprod.html has got

STA013 MP3 Decoder AU$20.00 and CS4334 24 bit Stereo Audio DAC AU$8.00

Add a PLD to receive the data + a headphone amplifier and you have an
MP3 player.

Naturally, this is only possible if someone figures out a way to make
the USB port read and write a single byte at once. Failing that it USB
decoding could be done with a Ubicom SX, but it would be extremely
dfficult.

> 
> > *Wireless Network - Total stupidity on a calculator, but you can get
> > wireless cards in SD form factor. Now we just need someone to write a
> > driver...
> That requires SDIO slot, so I don't think so...

Even if it were possible, its totally pointless... It was meant as a
joke :-)

> 
> > *Great games. Finally we can have HP-Doom.
> Hey! You're right!!!
> X
> > ***It would be *wonderful* if HP could release the details on the USB
> > interface. Then maybe someone could make a 'Parallel Breakout Box'
> > that plugs into the USB port, to provide bidirectional I/O for other
> > applications.***
> 
> AND think about USB Flash, USB peripherals like camera, scanner, etc..

I don't like your chances of that happening. Bastardizing the USB port
to make it read/write a single byte at a time (like a RS232 or
parallel port) is probably feasible. Making the calculator act like a
USB host might well be impossible. Even if it could, you'd have to
write drivers for your USB flash, cameras, scanners etc. It's too much
work for not much gain. Why on earth would you want to hook a scanner
up to a calculator (you've got me curious)?

> 
> Oh, I wish this is true...
> VPN - still somewhat sceptic

While I belive HP are making a new calculator (see the news on their
website) I don't think this is it. I'm beginning to think someone with
too much time on their hands has forged the PDF file.


Al

Jean-Yves Avenard <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 3/8/03 16:30, in article C09Xa.729$Ee7.463@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com,
> "Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>> so it wouldn't be quite as embarrassing if my colleagues saw me with it...

> So sad ....
> I pity you

You pity me because, in an office environment, I don't want to use a
device that looks like it was designed for those morons in the Mountain
Dew commercials?

I want my tools to *look* like serious tools -- to evoke images of lab
coats and test benches and engineering workshops, not weird-colored
hair, skateboards and body piercings.  My 41CX, 16C and 48GX are right
at home on my desk next to my sleek, black, rectangular ThinkPad (I'm
glad IBM still has some sense of style).  They even look good next to my
slide rules.  A 49G would be completely out of place, though, as I said,
the 49G+ (if it exists) isn't quite as bad.

-- 
Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
                           |  your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"

Veli-Pekka Nousiainen <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote:

> How do you retain the wide ENTER in the middle and have the cursor
> working in the alpha mode, too (no letters on cursor keys) ???
> VPN

I'd rather have the big [ENTER] key and do without the dedicated cursor
keys.  It's not been a problem for me on my 48GX.

-- 
Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
                           |  your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"

"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message news:<bgk8hk$8bv$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>...
> "Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:C09Xa.729$Ee7.463@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > Gregorio Munoz <gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> > > Here is the link:
> > > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
> >
> > It appears to be at least marginally less ugly than the 49G, though it's
> > still pretty bad, and it still doesn't have a decent [ENTER] key. At
> 
> How do you retain the wide ENTER in the middle and have the cursor
> working in the alpha mode, too (no letters on cursor keys) ???
> VPN

You could use the HP48  T-configuration of the cursor keys, to have
two more keys
 X     up     X
left down right
(this kind of configuration seems to be old-fashioned...)

Anyway, people talk about decency (of the enter key) when it is just a
problem of habits.

(On my 48, I often used the space key instead of the enter key, so the
49's enter key was absolutely not a problem)

Camille

"Camille" <camille_mic@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:b88deca7.0308032354.d5c3b4b@posting.google.com...
> Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<6DiXa.2616$Ee7.1880@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>...
> > Jean-Yves Avenard <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > On 3/8/03 16:30, in article C09Xa.729$Ee7.463@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com,
> > > "Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote:
X
> The most important points about the exterior design are probably
> - the keymap (which seems good)
> - the feeling of the keys
> - the quality of the screen (contrast, reflection...)
> (those points seem much more important than the color of the calc)
>
> we can't discuss the last two points as the vast majority of us has
> not seen the calc yet.
> And for the key map, who can seriously say the position/size of the
> enter key is an issue ?

To me the |EVAL| and |  '  | keys as standard keys are more important
The colors on the case and keys do matter as long as readability is
concerned
and I also do like more "Champagne" (a car color similar to 49G+ case color)
than the "Frozen Hamster Butt"
Feeling of the keys is the *most* important, even KEY factor to me
    Veli-Pekka
PS: By adding two those new narrow keys beside the cursor keys
they could have squeezed in a large ENTER key into it's original place
Some keys need to be relocated then. like 1/X,
10^x. LOG, ABS, ARG (OR <, > =...)
VPN

In message <aMaXa.23262$DX5.22726@news02.roc.ny>, Tennessee Tom 
<honky@tonkin.com> writes
>Once upon a time, when somebody asked me what computer to get, I said , 
>"Just get an HP, and you know it will be high quality."  I won't waste 
>your time elaborating on the HP of today.

Computers aside, I'm willing to bet that there will be a healthy trade 
in HP49Gs on eBay (or its descendants) in 20 years time just as there 
are HP-41s and older models trading today.

Regards,
-- 
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
<firstname>@<surname>.plus.com -- fix the obvious for email

Camille <camille_mic@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message news:<bgk8hk$8bv$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>...
>> 
>> How do you retain the wide ENTER in the middle and have the cursor
>> working in the alpha mode, too (no letters on cursor keys) ???
>> VPN

> You could use the HP48  T-configuration of the cursor keys, to have
> two more keys
>  X     up     X
> left down right
> (this kind of configuration seems to be old-fashioned...)

I'd really prefer to have all the cursor keys in a single line:

	left down up right

since that's the way my favorite editor (vi) works.  But the position
of the cursor keys isn't a big deal for me, as long as they are the same
size/shape as the other keys and don't stand out from the rest.

BTW, when it comes to HP technology, "old-fashioned" usually means
"better."

-- 
Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
                           |  your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"

Hello,


"Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
news:eeYWa.17749$xC4.5474@news02.roc.ny...
> Y'all have me worried now!
>
> The power issue is what gets me the most.  Does anybody know of a document
> for the ARM processor where one could find the power consumption of an
ARM9
> at 75MHz?  I did some looking, and was unable to find power data.
>
> Are there any other handheld devices that use the ARM9 at 75MHz?

What you need to realize is that ARM company does not make CPU (or only in a
very limited way), their business model is to licence the CORE CPU to other
company so they can include them in their chips.

The core CPU can run at more or less any speed, this is decided by the
company that includes the ARM CORE in their silicone.

so, you have 2 type of usage of the ARM cores:
- custom build CPU/microcontrolers usually used in embeded applications
(automotive, Hard Drive controlers (you probably have at least a couple of
ARMS in your PC), auto radio, MP3 players...)
- general purpose CPU created by company like philips, Samsung, mitsubishi,
Intel... that include an ARM cpu and lots of other periferials.

now, this is where power consumption starts to kick in, these company create
a CPU with the ARM core, but, it creates it on a specific technology
(feature size (.13, .18, .25 ...), material and voltage specification), with
specific speeds and with specific extra functionality.

All these things do add up to create the power consumption of a CPU, then,
once you add the power used by the memory, LCD and other out of CPU
periferial, the total power consumption of your device has seldomly anything
to do with the power consumption of the CORE CPU.

regards, cyrille (never speaking for HP when speaking, or writing)

The HP49G+, to me looks like a really nice TI calculator. I suspect that my
well-built HP41CV and even my HP48 SX will be around long after most of
these HP49 calcs have died off. The point being that people still use their
HP41s (20+ years later) and HP48s (10+ year later) but the HP49 series looks
like a throwaway item. There will be die-hard collectors, certainly, but
they don't look like they will be cherished like the older series.

Brad

"BlackLotus" <blacklotus@nospam.me> wrote in message
news:bgmrfd$occ$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr...
>
[snip]

> But honestly, I agree with the fact that gold is just... misplaced. If
they
> keep the same general design but use gray/silver colors instead of gold,
it
> would look way more "show-off" than gold. Gold reminds me of Johnson
running
> the 200m.

The gold color (or colour) could be inspired by JYA's gold 49G. Thanks
goodness the color of the lettering seems to be a lot more legible
regardless of the color (or colour) scheme (and whether you like it or not).
For our giggles, some brash person needs to coin something comparable to
"frozen hamster butt blue" for this new one.

I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this model
and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell?  IMO, I have a high
regard for the design and quality of the "fit and finish" (production
quality) of the old HP's from a more functional perspective, but I also
think that some aspects of the industrial design of the older models is very
dated and dorky.  Also, some models like the 41, have flat key faces that
produce glare under some lighting conditions and become hard to read.
Nothing is perfect.

Greg S

That TI-36X Solar is a nice, inexpensive calculator that's packed with all
the basic scientific functions.  I actually use it from time to time (when
the 49G is out of reach).  I've heard of those RPN programs for the TI89,
maybe I'll get one of my TI-owning friends to let me try it out.  Still, I
couldn't see myself owning a TI-89, because there is a perpetual (but
friendly) "HP vs TI" war going on between myself and some friends.  If I
bought a TI89, I'd never hear the end of it!!!

Lately, I'm thinking that I will just sit and have faith for the Hydrix to
become available.

Regards,
Tom



"EShore" <eddieshore_77@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cf3f4946.0308041119.47e1cc49@posting.google.com...
> No offense Tennessee Tom.  I completely understand your HP prefence.
> For the record, I own a HP-48G, HP48GX, and a HP-9G (the 9 has no
> calculus functions. >;|)  It took me a bit to get used the 48 keys,
> but no problem.
>
> The TI-36X has a very busy keyboard and I understand you know that I
> realize the TI's keys are lighter.  There are several RPN programs for
> the TI-89 series (89, 92+, V200) but I don't think anything extensive
> (I'll check).
>
> <<It's just that if I wanted a TI calculator, I'd buy one from TI,
>  not HP.>>
>
> OK I won't.  :)
>
>
>
>
> "Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
news:<YyQWa.10125$NY6.6524@news02.roc.ny>...
> > > On a side note, as an owner of 14 TI calculators, I never remembered
> > > had one with rubbery, mushy keys.
> >
> > Oops!!  Sorry, I didn't know we had any TI owners here.  I didn't mean
to
> > offend.  It's just that if I wanted a TI calculator, I'd buy one from
TI,
> > not HP.
> >
> > RPN is slowly being put out to pasture, that's my primary complaint.  If
TI
> > came out with a true RPN calculator, I'd probably buy one (but don't
tell
> > anybody).
> >
> > I do own a TI-36X solar that was purchased to take exams where fancy
> > calculators were restricted.  I did that because I refused to buy an "HP
"
> > that had algebraic input.  Any trouble I had was not from switching to
> > algebraic, it was from miskeys with the relatively softer keys, with
which I
> > was unaccustomed (how's that?).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > "EShore" <eddieshore_77@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:cf3f4946.0308020601.4769dae5@posting.google.com...
> > > Upon the seeing the link:
> > > 1)  Nice colors, keyboard is less cluttered than the original HP49.
> > > 2)  X-Root function (the #1 complaint from the TI users of the 89)
> > > 3)  Hopefull the SD cards will be affordable.
> > > 4)  I like the USB port, HP has stepped into the new century.
> > >
> > > On a side note, as an owner of 14 TI calculators, I never remembered
> > > had one with rubbery, mushy keys.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
> >  news:<Q3MWa.8946$u_3.7623@news02.roc.ny>...
> > > > YAY!!!!:
> > > >
> > > > 1) The "apostrophe" and "EVAL" keys are back (where they belong) as
a
> > > > primary keys.
> > > > 2) 75MHz!?!?  I hope the batteries last.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > BOOOO!!!:
> > > >
> > > > 1) That damned "HIST" key is a waste.  Only there to make algebraic
mode
> > > > work like the vastly superior RPN.
> > > > 2) Why not print the "SWAP" "VIEW" "PICTURE" and "STACK" functions
where
> > > > they belong?  This must also be to cater to the algebraic mode?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But, as long as the keys are not loose and mushy, like a TI, I'm
> >  probably
> > > > gonna get me one!
> > > >
> > > > Tennessee Tom
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Gregorio Munoz" <gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com...
> > > > > I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> > > > > Here is the link:
> > > > > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in 
news:8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com:

> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

I do not understand why the second and third row would have such small 
keys, with the arrow keys occupying one half of the keyboard's width.  
Those two rows have keys small enough for there to be six keys of that size 
in a row.  Why the arrow keys are not moved over so that there can be four 
keys (and then the arrow keys) in that row is beyond me.

For that matter, key rows four, five, and six could have six keys in each 
row, too, by making all keys that size.  At any rate, I would at the very 
least rather have rows two and three have the same horizontal proportions 
as they do on the 49G.  But, if they were to have four keys in those rows 
(plus the arrow keys), they could have a 48-style ENTER key, with the four 
basic arithmetic operators moved downward, so that the alpha keyboard does 
not have the Z on the division key, still allowing the use of the arrow 
keys.

It looks like the menu keys are more reachable than on the 49G, with the 
arrow keys not taking up so much vertical space.

I hope that this is a hoax, though, because there could be many 
improvements on the design shown in that jpeg.

Thanks for that info, it's good to learn more about these things.  My
original intent was to focus on the 75 MHz core CPU, since I don't know the
power consumption of the other parts.  If the core CPU, by itself, had power
consumption that was impractical for 3 AAA batteries, it wouldn't matter
what else was in it.  We would then have evidence that the document was
false (I believe it is real).

Regards,
Tom


"Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote in message
news:3f2ec304$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
> Hello,
>
>
> "Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
> news:eeYWa.17749$xC4.5474@news02.roc.ny...
> > Y'all have me worried now!
> >
> > The power issue is what gets me the most.  Does anybody know of a
document
> > for the ARM processor where one could find the power consumption of an
> ARM9
> > at 75MHz?  I did some looking, and was unable to find power data.
> >
> > Are there any other handheld devices that use the ARM9 at 75MHz?
>
> What you need to realize is that ARM company does not make CPU (or only in
a
> very limited way), their business model is to licence the CORE CPU to
other
> company so they can include them in their chips.
>
> The core CPU can run at more or less any speed, this is decided by the
> company that includes the ARM CORE in their silicone.
>
> so, you have 2 type of usage of the ARM cores:
> - custom build CPU/microcontrolers usually used in embeded applications
> (automotive, Hard Drive controlers (you probably have at least a couple of
> ARMS in your PC), auto radio, MP3 players...)
> - general purpose CPU created by company like philips, Samsung,
mitsubishi,
> Intel... that include an ARM cpu and lots of other periferials.
>
> now, this is where power consumption starts to kick in, these company
create
> a CPU with the ARM core, but, it creates it on a specific technology
> (feature size (.13, .18, .25 ...), material and voltage specification),
with
> specific speeds and with specific extra functionality.
>
> All these things do add up to create the power consumption of a CPU, then,
> once you add the power used by the memory, LCD and other out of CPU
> periferial, the total power consumption of your device has seldomly
anything
> to do with the power consumption of the CORE CPU.
>
> regards, cyrille (never speaking for HP when speaking, or writing)
>
>

You're using a model that is designed to solve engineering problems and
similar.
The ability to compute (and graph) equations is paramount, both in terms of
interface, speed and of course final result. The fact that its relatively
easy to write SysRPL means much of the legwork can be automated - another
great advantage.
If its the best calculator in those regards appearance matters little - well
maybe not red with white spots.


"Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fAvXa.4521$C77.399@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Camille <camille_mic@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
> > If it is a good tool, it has its place. If you arrive at your office
> > with a red shirt, do you suddenly forget how to do your job (whatever
> > it is)?
>
> I'm a programmer/Unix systems administrator.
>
> And no, a red shirt wouldn't keep me from doing my job, but if it was
> garish and distracting then I would be embarrassed to be seen in it.
> I prefer shirts (and calculators, and everything else) that are quiet,
> understated, and don't attract attention.
>
> > And in respect of your points, the hp49G+ has simply a sober design.
> > So you could have been more enthousiastic, if it is the only thing you
> > care about.
>
> If the picture is accurate, it isn't sober.  I don't see how anything
> with a gold faceplate could be called "sober."  A black faceplate with
> white lettering -- and straight clean lines, rather than those stupid
> curves -- now, that would be both attractive and dignified.
>
> Have you ever seen an HP-41C or HP-16C?  If not, look at these:
>
> http://www.hpmuseum.org/3qs/41c3q.jpg
>
> http://www.hpmuseum.org/16.jpg
>
> Those are, as far as I'm concerned, the most beautiful calculators
> ever made.  The 16C is especially nice; in fact the whole Voyager
> series is attractive, though I've never cared much for the 12C (which
> has a gold bezel in place of the 16C's silver bezel, as well as being a
> financial rather than scientific model).  I really wish HP had kept the
> 48SX color scheme for the 48GX, because it's much more like that of the
> 41C and 16C.  I consider the 48GX appearance acceptable but not in the
> same class as the older machines.  The 49G is absolutely unacceptable --
> both the shape and the colors are too flashy, "trendy," and ostentatious.
>
> > The most important points about the exterior design are probably
> > - the keymap (which seems good)
> > - the feeling of the keys
> > - the quality of the screen (contrast, reflection...)
> > (those points seem much more important than the color of the calc)
>
> At least the keys are supposed to be plastic, which automatically makes
> them better.  I'd prefer 41-style rather than 48-style keys, but this
> is a step in the right direction.  I won't buy a calculator with rubber
> keys, no matter how good the rest of it is.
>
> > we can't discuss the last two points as the vast majority of us has
> > not seen the calc yet.
> > And for the key map, who can seriously say the position/size of the
> > enter key is an issue ?
>
> I can -- it's a very serious issue for me.  Partly it's because the size
> and position of the larger key make it easier to find without looking at
> the keyboard; but a large part of the issue for me is philosophical.
> That large [ENTER] key says loud and clear, "I'm an RPN machine!"
> There was a time when HP made no apologies for RPN.  Their attitude was,
> "Our calculators are different because they're superior; we don't *want*
> to be like everyone else.  Algebraic entry is for people who aren't
> discerning enough to appreciate RPN."  It's been a long time since I
> saw an HP advertisement with that kind of attitude.
>
> The shrunken [ENTER] key is just another sign that RPN has been demoted
> to the same status as algebraic entry.  I think it's insulting to the
> designers of the earlier machines.  The big [ENTER] key has been a
> feature of every HP RPN handheld from the HP-35 to the 48.  What right
> did the 49 designers have to second-guess the engineers who INVENTED
> handheld scientific calculators?!
>
> --
> Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
> fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
>                            |  your pelt to the trapper."
> "e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"
>

I don't agree that the 49s are that inferior to the 48s. They might have a
slightly worse interface. But in terms of doing the job they were designed
to do - compute engineering equations etc - I think they're much better than
the 48.
From the FAQ:
"100!*100!, which takes about 16 seconds to calculate with full precision on
a 48 with ALG48, takes about 1.5 seconds on an HP49. "

Thats over ten times faster -  I rest my case.

Dave Holland
"Brad Bishop" <bsbishop@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:bgm81s02iv4@enews3.newsguy.com...
> The HP49G+, to me looks like a really nice TI calculator. I suspect that
my
> well-built HP41CV and even my HP48 SX will be around long after most of
> these HP49 calcs have died off. The point being that people still use
their
> HP41s (20+ years later) and HP48s (10+ year later) but the HP49 series
looks
> like a throwaway item. There will be die-hard collectors, certainly, but
> they don't look like they will be cherished like the older series.
>
> Brad
>
>

"Dave h" <kmxcr@yahoo.co.uk> a �crit dans le message de
news:gYBXa.45384$Kb2.1951358@news010.worldonline.dk...
> You're using a model that is designed to solve engineering problems and
> similar.
> The ability to compute (and graph) equations is paramount, both in terms
of
> interface, speed and of course final result. The fact that its relatively
> easy to write SysRPL means much of the legwork can be automated - another
> great advantage.
> If its the best calculator in those regards appearance matters little -
well
> maybe not red with white spots.

But honestly, I agree with the fact that gold is just... misplaced. If they
keep the same general design but use gray/silver colors instead of gold, it
would look way more "show-off" than gold. Gold reminds me of Johnson running
the 200m.

>
>
> "Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:fAvXa.4521$C77.399@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > Camille <camille_mic@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> >
> > > If it is a good tool, it has its place. If you arrive at your office
> > > with a red shirt, do you suddenly forget how to do your job (whatever
> > > it is)?
> >
> > I'm a programmer/Unix systems administrator.
> >
> > And no, a red shirt wouldn't keep me from doing my job, but if it was
> > garish and distracting then I would be embarrassed to be seen in it.
> > I prefer shirts (and calculators, and everything else) that are quiet,
> > understated, and don't attract attention.
> >
> > > And in respect of your points, the hp49G+ has simply a sober design.
> > > So you could have been more enthousiastic, if it is the only thing you
> > > care about.
> >
> > If the picture is accurate, it isn't sober.  I don't see how anything
> > with a gold faceplate could be called "sober."  A black faceplate with
> > white lettering -- and straight clean lines, rather than those stupid
> > curves -- now, that would be both attractive and dignified.
> >
> > Have you ever seen an HP-41C or HP-16C?  If not, look at these:
> >
> > http://www.hpmuseum.org/3qs/41c3q.jpg
> >
> > http://www.hpmuseum.org/16.jpg
> >
> > Those are, as far as I'm concerned, the most beautiful calculators
> > ever made.  The 16C is especially nice; in fact the whole Voyager
> > series is attractive, though I've never cared much for the 12C (which
> > has a gold bezel in place of the 16C's silver bezel, as well as being a
> > financial rather than scientific model).  I really wish HP had kept the
> > 48SX color scheme for the 48GX, because it's much more like that of the
> > 41C and 16C.  I consider the 48GX appearance acceptable but not in the
> > same class as the older machines.  The 49G is absolutely unacceptable --
> > both the shape and the colors are too flashy, "trendy," and
ostentatious.
> >
> > > The most important points about the exterior design are probably
> > > - the keymap (which seems good)
> > > - the feeling of the keys
> > > - the quality of the screen (contrast, reflection...)
> > > (those points seem much more important than the color of the calc)
> >
> > At least the keys are supposed to be plastic, which automatically makes
> > them better.  I'd prefer 41-style rather than 48-style keys, but this
> > is a step in the right direction.  I won't buy a calculator with rubber
> > keys, no matter how good the rest of it is.
> >
> > > we can't discuss the last two points as the vast majority of us has
> > > not seen the calc yet.
> > > And for the key map, who can seriously say the position/size of the
> > > enter key is an issue ?
> >
> > I can -- it's a very serious issue for me.  Partly it's because the size
> > and position of the larger key make it easier to find without looking at
> > the keyboard; but a large part of the issue for me is philosophical.
> > That large [ENTER] key says loud and clear, "I'm an RPN machine!"
> > There was a time when HP made no apologies for RPN.  Their attitude was,
> > "Our calculators are different because they're superior; we don't *want*
> > to be like everyone else.  Algebraic entry is for people who aren't
> > discerning enough to appreciate RPN."  It's been a long time since I
> > saw an HP advertisement with that kind of attitude.
> >
> > The shrunken [ENTER] key is just another sign that RPN has been demoted
> > to the same status as algebraic entry.  I think it's insulting to the
> > designers of the earlier machines.  The big [ENTER] key has been a
> > feature of every HP RPN handheld from the HP-35 to the 48.  What right
> > did the 49 designers have to second-guess the engineers who INVENTED
> > handheld scientific calculators?!
> >
> > --
> > Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
> > fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
> >                            |  your pelt to the trapper."
> > "e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"
> >
>
>

True. But how many times do you have to compute 100!*100!?

"Dave h" <kmxcr@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:V3CXa.45385$Kb2.1951611@news010.worldonline.dk...
> I don't agree that the 49s are that inferior to the 48s. They might have a
> slightly worse interface. But in terms of doing the job they were designed
> to do - compute engineering equations etc - I think they're much better
than
> the 48.
> From the FAQ:
> "100!*100!, which takes about 16 seconds to calculate with full precision
on
> a 48 with ALG48, takes about 1.5 seconds on an HP49. "
>
> Thats over ten times faster -  I rest my case.
>
> Dave Holland
> "Brad Bishop" <bsbishop@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> news:bgm81s02iv4@enews3.newsguy.com...
> > The HP49G+, to me looks like a really nice TI calculator. I suspect that
> my
> > well-built HP41CV and even my HP48 SX will be around long after most of
> > these HP49 calcs have died off. The point being that people still use
> their
> > HP41s (20+ years later) and HP48s (10+ year later) but the HP49 series
> looks
> > like a throwaway item. There will be die-hard collectors, certainly, but
> > they don't look like they will be cherished like the older series.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
>
>

"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote:
> I love you both - actually I love you all
>     {maybe I just like Bhuv (-;  }

To me, that's actually a compliment :-) Let's see how long you can like me...

--
Bhuvanesh

> I'd really prefer to have all the cursor keys in a single line:
> 
> 	left down up right
> 
> since that's the way my favorite editor (vi) works.  

Hi Wayne,

LOL.  I bet that would be really popular in the newsgroup!  I think 
"left up down right" would be more better though.  ha.

I'm starting to find this new calculator rumor more believable.   The HP 
site said there would be more calculators coming this year, and Eric's 
site has always been a credible source of information.

The brushed "champaign" color seems okay to me and the lettering appears 
to have good contrast.  (Remember the "dignified" lilac and turquoise 
lettering on the 48G?)

Regards,
Tom

Thanks for the info.  Interesting... I used to work for Designworks/USA in
the 1980's and we used to design Nokia phones in addition to Compaq
computers and other things.

"Jean-Yves Avenard" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:BB554579.11BB3%me@privacy.net...
> On 4/8/03 22:06, in article bgn6ul$1rl$1@quark.scn.rain.com, "G Savage"
> <savage@mtangelz.net> wrote:
> > I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this
model
> > and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell?  IMO, I have a high
> The 49G (don't know about the 49G+) was designed by Seymour-Powell very
well
> known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)
>
> Jean-Yves
>

I wrote:

> But honestly, I agree with the fact that gold is just... misplaced. If
they
> keep the same general design but use gray/silver colors instead of gold,
it
> would look way more "show-off" than gold. Gold reminds me of Johnson
running
> the 200m.

It should read "would look way less". Silly me.

On 4/8/03 22:06, in article bgn6ul$1rl$1@quark.scn.rain.com, "G Savage"
<savage@mtangelz.net> wrote:
> I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this model
> and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell?  IMO, I have a high
The 49G (don't know about the 49G+) was designed by Seymour-Powell very well
known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)

Jean-Yves

who gives a shit about TI? if anyone does, let him go to the TI's NG. No
such? Too bad.
I can't understand other calculator fans presence here. HP is the greatest.

piss off.

"Roumen Mollov" <rmollov@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f2f876a@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> who gives a shit about TI? if anyone does, let him go to the TI's NG. No
> such? Too bad.
> I can't understand other calculator fans presence here. HP is the
greatest.
>
>
>

gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in message news:<8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com>...
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

Speculation:
-If there is a saturn-emulation in this machine, will it be
upgradable, as 49's rom is?
-A related question is - will it be possible to write programs in
processor's own machine language? If so - wouldn't it be possible to
port compilers, Linux etc.?

Regards,
Ville Koskinen

Le mar 05 ao� 2003 05:20:16 GMT, Ville Koskinen a tapot� sur son clavier :
> -A related question is - will it be possible to write programs in
> processor's own machine language? If so - wouldn't it be possible to
> port compilers, Linux etc.?

As I already posted:

$ ls -d /usr/src/linux/arch/arm
/usr/src/linux/arch/arm

The port to the processor is already done, you only need an arm
cross-compiler, which I think gcc supports.

Then, if the calc is released, we'll merely have to add the 49gplus
subarch :)

Cheers,
Samuel Thibault

Tue, 05 Aug 2003 05:20:16 -0700, Ville Koskinen wrote:

> gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in message
> news:<8dffa42e.0308012226.59fe623f@posting.google.com>...
>> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true. Here is the link:
>> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
> 
> Speculation:
> -If there is a saturn-emulation in this machine, will it be upgradable,
> as 49's rom is?

If it is a Saturn emulation, like emu48 does, then it should be as easy as
copying a file, the ROM, to it.

> -A related question is - will it be possible to write programs in
> processor's own machine language? If so - wouldn't it be possible to
> port compilers, Linux etc.?

That would be interesting, seeing Linux on a device like that. Isn't HP
who is saying in all Linux conferences that Linux is part of its strategy,
and every device is Linux compatible, and all computers can run Linux, and
bla, bla, bla...

If it is true, it looks like a great hacking device :-)

-- 
J.Manrique Lopez de la Fuente
Users Club from Gij�n
1077 HPCC Member
AsturLiNUX & HispaLiNUX Member

"Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
news:UFzXa.9$xz1.2@news01.roc.ny...
> Thanks for that info, it's good to learn more about these things.  My
> original intent was to focus on the 75 MHz core CPU, since I don't know
the
> power consumption of the other parts.  If the core CPU, by itself, had
power
> consumption that was impractical for 3 AAA batteries, it wouldn't matter
X
> "Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote in message
> news:3f2ec304$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
X
> > now, this is where power consumption starts to kick in, these company
> create
> > a CPU with the ARM core, but, it creates it on a specific technology
> > (feature size (.13, .18, .25 ...), material and voltage specification),
> with
> > specific speeds and with specific extra functionality.
> >
> > All these things do add up to create the power consumption of a CPU,
then,
> > once you add the power used by the memory, LCD and other out of CPU
> > periferial, the total power consumption of your device has seldomly
> anything
> > to do with the power consumption of the CORE CPU.

There are (at least) five different states of power consumptions
A) Coma Mode - even the clock is stopped, RAM is always supported
B) Power off - also I/O, display, Flash, etc.. are off,
    |ON| interrupt needs some power, RAM is preserved
C) Power off and waiting for key in light sleep.
* This is where the problem might be *
D) Running a program
E) doing fast I/O and/or Flash Write

Running a program is no problem because if it takes twice the energy
but completes twice as fast the energy sucked from the AAA*3 is the same.

Also if everything if off, there is not much power used, but C) worries me.
Is the ARM & new HW able to stay in light sleep and use minimal current
the say way the old & slow Saturn did - if not - then I wan't to use
rechargeables.

VPN - more speculations later, I really don't know about the HW
    neither am I any kind of expert on the subject,
    but I have read all the old 48 documents and I'm not sure about the
    power consumption of ARM9 & other needed HW
PS: I'm starting to believe this is a true calculator
    and if it is, it will be the best product ever by HP or anybody else.
    why it is not called HP 58GX ??

Thierry Morissette, what the hell are you doing here? We are all HP
calculator fans. Don't even think about putting yourself next to JYA.Who are
you, buddy? What's that puts you where you think you are? Tell us what
you've done. Don't be so modest.

"Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.370996@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I reserve the right to express my opinion AS I want, WHEN I want, and
> DESPITE anyone else's opinion.
>
> I have seen the picture. I repeat: I AM NOT IMPRESSED!
>
> I am also very skeptical. The keyboard, for one thing, doesn't add up. F1
to
> F6 look like the 49's rubber keys, so do the keys below the arrow keys,
but
> the keys at the side of that arrow keys look like 48's plastic keys. So
> which one is it?
>
> A 75 MHz processor? How many times a week will I have to change the
> batteries?
>
> A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
> from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true, which
I
> doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
digits
> long? Do you REALLY believe that?
>
> What ELSE is there (beside the SD port which will nodoubt require a
special,
> HP-only SD card, available from selected dealers for the kind of price
that
> the new exponent capabilities have probably been built for)?
>
> I don't even believe it! Why should I be impressed?
>
> Or do you know something we don't? If not, Mr. Frenchman, I return your
> compliment to you! And, by the way, I read, speak and write French. So
don't
> believe for an instant that your comments have gone unnoticed.
>
>
> "Jean-Yves Avenard" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:BB51DB69.11AEB%me@privacy.net...
> > On 2/8/03 17:22, in article
_GQWa.11474$Cx4.1170388@news20.bellglobal.com,
> > "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Kinpo Electronics? What's that?
> > >
> > > Thanks for the link. I am NOT impressed, however.
> >
> > In French I would say: "T'es lourd!"
> >
> > You're not impressed and you haven't even seen this new calculator...
> Always
> > talking rubbish without any actual knowledge of what things are..
> > Or I would say "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme"
> >
> > Jean-Yves
> >
>
>

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Veli-Pekka Nousiainen wrote:

> VPN - more speculations later, I really don't know about the HW
>     neither am I any kind of expert on the subject,
>     but I have read all the old 48 documents and I'm not sure about the
>     power consumption of ARM9 & other needed HW

ARMx (where x < 10) are very power efficient, by design. ARM10 (StrongARM)
can go much faster, but also is more power hungry.

> PS: I'm starting to believe this is a true calculator
>     and if it is, it will be the best product ever by HP or anybody else.
>     why it is not called HP 58GX ??

Optimistic answer: to keep place for future improvement ;)

-- 
Erwann ABALEA <erwann@abalea.com> - RSA PGP Key ID: 0x2D0EABD5
-----
Et, en passant, sachez tout de m�me que Sacha a dit une sacr�
dose de conneries � mon �gard. La plus savoureuse est qu'il me prend
pour une victime, alors que je suis un GAGNANT.
-+- AB in GNU : Neuneu gagne surtout � ne pas �tre connu. -+-

you too, buddy
"Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
news:1jMXa.27056$kQ4.27050@news02.roc.ny...
> piss off.
>
> "Roumen Mollov" <rmollov@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3f2f876a@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> > who gives a shit about TI? if anyone does, let him go to the TI's NG. No
> > such? Too bad.
> > I can't understand other calculator fans presence here. HP is the
> greatest.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
news:bgob22$1of$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> "Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
> news:UFzXa.9$xz1.2@news01.roc.ny...
> > Thanks for that info, it's good to learn more about these things.  My
> > original intent was to focus on the 75 MHz core CPU, since I don't know
> the
> > power consumption of the other parts.  If the core CPU, by itself, had
> power
> > consumption that was impractical for 3 AAA batteries, it wouldn't matter
> X
> > "Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote in message
> > news:3f2ec304$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
> X
> > > now, this is where power consumption starts to kick in, these company
> > create
> > > a CPU with the ARM core, but, it creates it on a specific technology
> > > (feature size (.13, .18, .25 ...), material and voltage
specification),
> > with
> > > specific speeds and with specific extra functionality.
> > >
> > > All these things do add up to create the power consumption of a CPU,
> then,
> > > once you add the power used by the memory, LCD and other out of CPU
> > > periferial, the total power consumption of your device has seldomly
> > anything
> > > to do with the power consumption of the CORE CPU.
>
> There are (at least) five different states of power consumptions
> A) Coma Mode - even the clock is stopped, RAM is always supported
> B) Power off - also I/O, display, Flash, etc.. are off,
>     |ON| interrupt needs some power, RAM is preserved
> C) Power off and waiting for key in light sleep.
> * This is where the problem might be *
> D) Running a program
> E) doing fast I/O and/or Flash Write
>
> Running a program is no problem because if it takes twice the energy
> but completes twice as fast the energy sucked from the AAA*3 is the same.
>
> Also if everything if off, there is not much power used, but C) worries
me.
> Is the ARM & new HW able to stay in light sleep and use minimal current
> the say way the old & slow Saturn did - if not - then I wan't to use
> rechargeables.
>
> VPN - more speculations later, I really don't know about the HW
>     neither am I any kind of expert on the subject,
>     but I have read all the old 48 documents and I'm not sure about the
>     power consumption of ARM9 & other needed HW
> PS: I'm starting to believe this is a true calculator
>     and if it is, it will be the best product ever by HP or anybody else.
>     why it is not called HP 58GX ??
>
>

Thanks VPN.  Even if we don't know the details, at least we have some
confidence that the 75MHz ARM is not an unrealistic CPU.

Tom

"Roumen Mollov" <rmollov@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> HP is the greatest.

LOL! How childish. Or was that meant as a joke?

--
Bhuvanesh

First tell me who YOU are, Mister "RM". At least I use my full name when I
post ...

"RM" <rmollov@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f2fb30f@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Thierry Morissette, what the hell are you doing here? We are all HP
> calculator fans. Don't even think about putting yourself next to JYA.Who
are
> you, buddy? What's that puts you where you think you are? Tell us what
> you've done. Don't be so modest.
>
> "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.370996@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > I reserve the right to express my opinion AS I want, WHEN I want, and
> > DESPITE anyone else's opinion.
> >
> > I have seen the picture. I repeat: I AM NOT IMPRESSED!
> >
> > I am also very skeptical. The keyboard, for one thing, doesn't add up.
F1
> to
> > F6 look like the 49's rubber keys, so do the keys below the arrow keys,
> but
> > the keys at the side of that arrow keys look like 48's plastic keys. So
> > which one is it?
> >
> > A 75 MHz processor? How many times a week will I have to change the
> > batteries?
> >
> > A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
> > from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true,
which
> I
> > doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
> digits
> > long? Do you REALLY believe that?
> >
> > What ELSE is there (beside the SD port which will nodoubt require a
> special,
> > HP-only SD card, available from selected dealers for the kind of price
> that
> > the new exponent capabilities have probably been built for)?
> >
> > I don't even believe it! Why should I be impressed?
> >
> > Or do you know something we don't? If not, Mr. Frenchman, I return your
> > compliment to you! And, by the way, I read, speak and write French. So
> don't
> > believe for an instant that your comments have gone unnoticed.
> >
> >
> > "Jean-Yves Avenard" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > news:BB51DB69.11AEB%me@privacy.net...
> > > On 2/8/03 17:22, in article
> _GQWa.11474$Cx4.1170388@news20.bellglobal.com,
> > > "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Kinpo Electronics? What's that?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the link. I am NOT impressed, however.
> > >
> > > In French I would say: "T'es lourd!"
> > >
> > > You're not impressed and you haven't even seen this new calculator...
> > Always
> > > talking rubbish without any actual knowledge of what things are..
> > > Or I would say "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme"
> > >
> > > Jean-Yves
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Hello,

> > -A related question is - will it be possible to write programs in
> > processor's own machine language? If so - wouldn't it be possible to
> > port compilers, Linux etc.?
>
> As I already posted:
>
> $ ls -d /usr/src/linux/arch/arm
> /usr/src/linux/arch/arm
>
> The port to the processor is already done, you only need an arm
> cross-compiler, which I think gcc supports.
>
> Then, if the calc is released, we'll merely have to add the 49gplus
> subarch :)

Well, that is a bit of an over simplification....
There is a big diference between a processor Core and a system or
architecture.
let me explain. The processor core includes (more or less) the thing that
executes instuction, the MMU (in some cases, including the ARM case), and
the supervisor uers and other type of modes.
All the rest is highly dependant upon the implementation of that core in an
architecture. For example, on PC, that architecture is mainly the "chipset"
architecture, and fortunately, all chipset are similar, however, on other
architectures (like ARM), lots of diferent architectures do exist. This
means that you will need to do a "sub-port" of the main arm linux
architecture to the specific architecture that you are working with (SA
1100, XScale, Samsung, philips...)

Another thing that you can do is compile a linux kernel for ARM and see how
big that kernel is...

regards, cyrille

Dave h <kmxcr@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> You're using a model that is designed to solve engineering problems and
> similar.
> The ability to compute (and graph) equations is paramount, both in terms of
> interface, speed and of course final result. The fact that its relatively
> easy to write SysRPL means much of the legwork can be automated - another
> great advantage.
> If its the best calculator in those regards appearance matters little - well
> maybe not red with white spots.

So if the appearance doesn't matter, then why did HP feel a need to
change it?  Why not keep making calculators that look just like the old
ones, but with improved internals?

I've never understood why HP insists on *removing* good features (like
the older keyboards) when they add new features (like a faster processor
or better software).

-- 
Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
                           |  your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"

Jean-Yves Avenard <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 4/8/03 22:06, in article bgn6ul$1rl$1@quark.scn.rain.com, "G Savage"
> <savage@mtangelz.net> wrote:
>> I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this model
>> and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell?  IMO, I have a high
> The 49G (don't know about the 49G+) was designed by Seymour-Powell very well
> known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)

That explains a *lot*.  Nokia phones are among the ugliest devices I've
ever seen (although most other cell phones aren't much better).

-- 
Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
                           |  your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"

Tom Sears <tomREsears@socketsmo.netve> wrote:

>> I'd really prefer to have all the cursor keys in a single line:
>> 
>> 	left down up right
>> 
>> since that's the way my favorite editor (vi) works.  

> Hi Wayne,

> LOL.  I bet that would be really popular in the newsgroup!  I think 
> "left up down right" would be more better though.  ha.

I really wouldn't expect most people to like my suggested arrangement,
but the 48's arrangement is fine with me.  Your suggestion would really
confuse me; I'd be getting "up" and "down" mixed up all the time!  :-)

> I'm starting to find this new calculator rumor more believable.   The HP 
> site said there would be more calculators coming this year, and Eric's 
> site has always been a credible source of information.

Yes, I'd be inclined to dismiss the whole thing as a hoax if it wasn't
coming from Eric.  But I trust him not to trick us deliberately, and I
doubt anyone could trick him into passing along a hoax to the rest of us.

> The brushed "champaign" color seems okay to me and the lettering appears 
> to have good contrast.  (Remember the "dignified" lilac and turquoise 
> lettering on the 48G?)

I'm not very fond of the lilac and turquoise either.  The 48G colors are
much less attractive than those of the 48S.  However, I'm willing to put
up with them in order to get the G-series improvements.  That's where I
draw the line, though.  The 49G isn't enough of an improvement over the
48GX + MetaKernel + Erable to be worth putting up with the all of the
"de-improvements."  As for the 49G+ -- maybe.  I'll have to wait and see.

-- 
Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
                           |  your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"

Cyrille de Br�bisson,

If you don't mind, I have a few more questions on the ARM cores::

In your text, you referred to "ARM cpu and lots of other periferials" and
also "CPU with the ARM CORE".  What I still find confusing is what defines a
'peripheral' in this context, because 'peripheral' is a pretty broad term.
To me, there is a gray area of what lies between the ARM core (which I
believe is the ALU) and the obvious peripherals, such as RAM, ROM, and LCD.
I think the term 'CPU' is maybe being used too loosely.

If I am a big manufacturer, WITH a complete foundry and design staff, and I
want to use the ARM9 core for my new calculator, what does the ARM company
sell me?  Do I just get the license and photomask materials to legally
manufacture an IC using their DESIGN?

Best regards,
Tom





"Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote in message
news:3f2ec304$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...

> The core CPU can run at more or less any speed, this is decided by the
> company that includes the ARM CORE in their silicone.
>
> so, you have 2 type of usage of the ARM cores:
> - custom build CPU/microcontrolers usually used in embeded applications
> (automotive, Hard Drive controlers (you probably have at least a couple of
> ARMS in your PC), auto radio, MP3 players...)
> - general purpose CPU created by company like philips, Samsung,
mitsubishi,
> Intel... that include an ARM cpu and lots of other periferials.
>
> now, this is where power consumption starts to kick in, these company
create
> a CPU with the ARM core, but, it creates it on a specific technology
> (feature size (.13, .18, .25 ...), material and voltage specification),
with
> specific speeds and with specific extra functionality.
>
> All these things do add up to create the power consumption of a CPU, then,
> once you add the power used by the memory, LCD and other out of CPU
> periferial, the total power consumption of your device has seldomly
anything
> to do with the power consumption of the CORE CPU.
>
> regards, cyrille (never speaking for HP when speaking, or writing)
>
>

"Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
news:2lPXa.1816$_a4.391000@news20.bellglobal.com...
> First tell me who YOU are, Mister "RM". At least I use my full name when I
> post ...
Let me guess (before he answers)
"Richard Mollov"
VPN=Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
BTW(By The Way) JYA=Jean-Yves Avenard, CdB=Cyrille de Brebisson
Is that zero-killed with you THM?
(OK=0K=zero killed=a successful military mission, no one got killed, but
enemy)
EOF
Post Scriptum: nack it off, boys, this NG is for the toys

"Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote in message
news:3f2feaf0$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
X
> > Then, if the calc is released, we'll merely have to add the 49gplus
> > subarch :)
>
> Well, that is a bit of an over simplification....
> There is a big diference between a processor Core and a system or
> architecture.
> let me explain. The processor core includes (more or less) the thing that
> executes instuction, the MMU (in some cases, including the ARM case), and
> the supervisor uers and other type of modes.
> All the rest is highly dependant upon the implementation of that core in
an
> architecture. For example, on PC, that architecture is mainly the
"chipset"
> architecture, and fortunately, all chipset are similar, however, on other
> architectures (like ARM), lots of diferent architectures do exist. This
> means that you will need to do a "sub-port" of the main arm linux
> architecture to the specific architecture that you are working with (SA
> 1100, XScale, Samsung, philips...)
>
> Another thing that you can do is compile a linux kernel for ARM and see
how
> big that kernel is...

How big is it then, Cyrille?
If the thing is real, will you , please,  persuade the HP calc cheff
to make a detailed HW info available to all of us.
I would love to read a HP Journal Article....like in the good old days
Oh, the days of the forty-one...and even the 48SX-GX, 38G
VPN

"Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:NGSXa.596$ta2.99@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Jean-Yves Avenard <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> > On 4/8/03 22:06, in article bgn6ul$1rl$1@quark.scn.rain.com, "G Savage"
> > <savage@mtangelz.net> wrote:
> >> I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this
model
> >> and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell?  IMO, I have a high
> > The 49G (don't know about the 49G+) was designed by Seymour-Powell very
well
> > known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)
>
> That explains a *lot*.  Nokia phones are among the ugliest devices I've
> ever seen (although most other cell phones aren't much better).
BUT
the Nokia phones sell out everything else on the race.
Some don't like them - that's why the other companies are still around.
Otherwise we were all Nokia
I have a City-Phones (1800MHz only: Motorola, Nokia, Siemens)
Of which the Nokia is the smallest one.
Then I have 900/1800MHz phones, Nokia and Erisson
Most I like my Matrix-Nokia 7110, with Roller key
I would love to see that roller in a HP calc
VPN

That's what I thought ...

"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
news:bgp74j$mj1$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> "Thierry Morissette" <thm47@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:2lPXa.1816$_a4.391000@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > First tell me who YOU are, Mister "RM". At least I use my full name when
I
> > post ...
> Let me guess (before he answers)
> "Richard Mollov"
> VPN=Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> BTW(By The Way) JYA=Jean-Yves Avenard, CdB=Cyrille de Brebisson
> Is that zero-killed with you THM?
> (OK=0K=zero killed=a successful military mission, no one got killed, but
> enemy)
> EOF
> Post Scriptum: nack it off, boys, this NG is for the toys
>
>

Hello,

Le mar 05 ao� 2003 11:10:53 GMT, Cyrille de Br�bisson a tapot� sur son clavier :
> > Then, if the calc is released, we'll merely have to add the 49gplus
> > subarch :)
> 
> <snip>
>
> This means that you will need to do a "sub-port" of the main arm linux
> architecture to the specific architecture that you are working with (SA
> 1100, XScale, Samsung, philips...)

Yes, that's precisely what the word subarch means in the linux kernel,
if I remember well. Of course, it will require the extra information
that firms don't give to their end users, etc... 'merely' was actually a
bit ironic :)

Regards,
Samuel Thibault

"Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:RGSXa.597$ta2.20@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Tom Sears <tomREsears@socketsmo.netve> wrote:
>
> >> I'd really prefer to have all the cursor keys in a single line:
> >>
> >> left down up right
> >>
> >> since that's the way my favorite editor (vi) works.
>
> > Hi Wayne,
>
> > LOL.  I bet that would be really popular in the newsgroup!  I think
> > "left up down right" would be more better though.  ha.
>
> I really wouldn't expect most people to like my suggested arrangement,
> but the 48's arrangement is fine with me.  Your suggestion would really
> confuse me; I'd be getting "up" and "down" mixed up all the time!  :-)

Looks like a good idea! and in addition, I propose that we label these keys
with the convinient following letters:
H J K L (but obviously, these keys would be different from the H J K and L
alpha keys :-)

what do you think about that!

regards, cyrille

Hello,


"Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
news:mVSXa.27466$1p7.9216@news02.roc.ny...
> Cyrille de Br�bisson,
>
> If you don't mind, I have a few more questions on the ARM cores::
>
> In your text, you referred to "ARM cpu and lots of other periferials" and
> also "CPU with the ARM CORE".  What I still find confusing is what defines
a
> 'peripheral' in this context, because 'peripheral' is a pretty broad term.
> To me, there is a gray area of what lies between the ARM core (which I
> believe is the ALU) and the obvious peripherals, such as RAM, ROM, and
LCD.
> I think the term 'CPU' is maybe being used too loosely.
if you look at, for example the intel PXA250 (XScale) documentation, you
will see the following items on the die:
- PLL settings (ie: various clock speed, for different part of the CPU,
sleep mode and other power mode handeling, disabeling of clock for different
periferial...)
- real time clock
- timers (ie: down or up counter that can create interupts at various
intervals)
- interupt system (allowing to conifigure CPU reaction to different external
or internal interupts)
- IOs (input output) that can be configured in lots of way (are they in,
out, tri stated, do they create interupts? what type of interups...)
- pulse width modulator (ie: some specific timers that allows to generate
pseudo analogic signals)
- DMA controlers (allowing fast data transfert to LCD, RS232, IrDa, USB,
external card, or simply from memory to meemory...)
- memory controlers, allowing the CPU to access to different type of RAM,
DRAM, SRAM, ROM, FlashRom...
- LCD controler
- RS232, IrDa, USB, communication
- sound chip communication
- I� buss (a buss allowing comunication with external devices)
- multimedia, SD, compac flash card busses....

as you can see, there is much more in a die than "just the CPU". and some of
these integrated "periferial" are critical to the system (like the timers,
PLL and memory controlers...)

> If I am a big manufacturer, WITH a complete foundry and design staff, and
I
> want to use the ARM9 core for my new calculator, what does the ARM company
> sell me?  Do I just get the license and photomask materials to legally
> manufacture an IC using their DESIGN?

now, in that "hypothetical" case, what you would get from ARM is:
RTL code for the "ARM core", this is more or less the plan of the ARM core
that can be used to create a FPGA or to create masks set used to "burn" the
silicon.
now, that ARM core includes:
- theCPU itself (ie: the instructino execution unit which is much more that
just an ALU)
- the cache (on an arm 9, this is usually 2* 16 KB)
- MMU
- potentially FPU
- potentially Thumb execution unit, or some other options

an ARM core, in .13� technology takes about 1� mm. When you have a CPU like
a SA1110 (Strong Arm) that is 5*5mm, you can see that there is much more
than just an ARM core there....


regards, cyrille
>
> Best regards,
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> "Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote in message
> news:3f2ec304$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
>
> > The core CPU can run at more or less any speed, this is decided by the
> > company that includes the ARM CORE in their silicone.
> >
> > so, you have 2 type of usage of the ARM cores:
> > - custom build CPU/microcontrolers usually used in embeded applications
> > (automotive, Hard Drive controlers (you probably have at least a couple
of
> > ARMS in your PC), auto radio, MP3 players...)
> > - general purpose CPU created by company like philips, Samsung,
> mitsubishi,
> > Intel... that include an ARM cpu and lots of other periferials.
> >
> > now, this is where power consumption starts to kick in, these company
> create
> > a CPU with the ARM core, but, it creates it on a specific technology
> > (feature size (.13, .18, .25 ...), material and voltage specification),
> with
> > specific speeds and with specific extra functionality.
> >
> > All these things do add up to create the power consumption of a CPU,
then,
> > once you add the power used by the memory, LCD and other out of CPU
> > periferial, the total power consumption of your device has seldomly
> anything
> > to do with the power consumption of the CORE CPU.
> >
> > regards, cyrille (never speaking for HP when speaking, or writing)
> >
> >
>
>

Thanks very much, Cyrille.  Now it makes a lot more sense!

I've been around computers for a long time, I've even been a maintenance
technician for Univacs.  In more recent years, however, I've dealt mostly
with analog electronics.  This u-processor stuff changes so fast, it's hard
to keep track!

Regards,
Tom


"Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote in message
news:3f30399c$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
> Hello,
>
>
> "Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
> news:mVSXa.27466$1p7.9216@news02.roc.ny...
> > Cyrille de Br�bisson,
> >
> > If you don't mind, I have a few more questions on the ARM cores::
> >
> > In your text, you referred to "ARM cpu and lots of other periferials"
and
> > also "CPU with the ARM CORE".  What I still find confusing is what
defines
> a
> > 'peripheral' in this context, because 'peripheral' is a pretty broad
term.
> > To me, there is a gray area of what lies between the ARM core (which I
> > believe is the ALU) and the obvious peripherals, such as RAM, ROM, and
> LCD.
> > I think the term 'CPU' is maybe being used too loosely.
> if you look at, for example the intel PXA250 (XScale) documentation, you
> will see the following items on the die:
> - PLL settings (ie: various clock speed, for different part of the CPU,
> sleep mode and other power mode handeling, disabeling of clock for
different
> periferial...)
> - real time clock
> - timers (ie: down or up counter that can create interupts at various
> intervals)
> - interupt system (allowing to conifigure CPU reaction to different
external
> or internal interupts)
> - IOs (input output) that can be configured in lots of way (are they in,
> out, tri stated, do they create interupts? what type of interups...)
> - pulse width modulator (ie: some specific timers that allows to generate
> pseudo analogic signals)
> - DMA controlers (allowing fast data transfert to LCD, RS232, IrDa, USB,
> external card, or simply from memory to meemory...)
> - memory controlers, allowing the CPU to access to different type of RAM,
> DRAM, SRAM, ROM, FlashRom...
> - LCD controler
> - RS232, IrDa, USB, communication
> - sound chip communication
> - I� buss (a buss allowing comunication with external devices)
> - multimedia, SD, compac flash card busses....
>
> as you can see, there is much more in a die than "just the CPU". and some
of
> these integrated "periferial" are critical to the system (like the timers,
> PLL and memory controlers...)
>
> > If I am a big manufacturer, WITH a complete foundry and design staff,
and
> I
> > want to use the ARM9 core for my new calculator, what does the ARM
company
> > sell me?  Do I just get the license and photomask materials to legally
> > manufacture an IC using their DESIGN?
>
> now, in that "hypothetical" case, what you would get from ARM is:
> RTL code for the "ARM core", this is more or less the plan of the ARM core
> that can be used to create a FPGA or to create masks set used to "burn"
the
> silicon.
> now, that ARM core includes:
> - theCPU itself (ie: the instructino execution unit which is much more
that
> just an ALU)
> - the cache (on an arm 9, this is usually 2* 16 KB)
> - MMU
> - potentially FPU
> - potentially Thumb execution unit, or some other options
>
> an ARM core, in .13� technology takes about 1� mm. When you have a CPU
like
> a SA1110 (Strong Arm) that is 5*5mm, you can see that there is much more
> than just an ARM core there....
>
>
> regards, cyrille
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote in message
> > news:3f2ec304$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
> >
> > > The core CPU can run at more or less any speed, this is decided by the
> > > company that includes the ARM CORE in their silicone.
> > >
> > > so, you have 2 type of usage of the ARM cores:
> > > - custom build CPU/microcontrolers usually used in embeded
applications
> > > (automotive, Hard Drive controlers (you probably have at least a
couple
> of
> > > ARMS in your PC), auto radio, MP3 players...)
> > > - general purpose CPU created by company like philips, Samsung,
> > mitsubishi,
> > > Intel... that include an ARM cpu and lots of other periferials.
> > >
> > > now, this is where power consumption starts to kick in, these company
> > create
> > > a CPU with the ARM core, but, it creates it on a specific technology
> > > (feature size (.13, .18, .25 ...), material and voltage
specification),
> > with
> > > specific speeds and with specific extra functionality.
> > >
> > > All these things do add up to create the power consumption of a CPU,
> then,
> > > once you add the power used by the memory, LCD and other out of CPU
> > > periferial, the total power consumption of your device has seldomly
> > anything
> > > to do with the power consumption of the CORE CPU.
> > >
> > > regards, cyrille (never speaking for HP when speaking, or writing)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in
news:bgob22$1of$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi: 

> Running a program is no problem because if it takes twice the energy
> but completes twice as fast the energy sucked from the AAA*3 is the
> same. 

You mean "takes twice the power" :P (</pedantry>)

But even so, who says it would take twice the energy?  Or twice the time?  
(pick one)  After all, if the Saturn gets emulated, there would be 
additional processing that takes place in the emulation itself...

"Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote in message
news:3f2feaf0$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
X
> architecture. For example, on PC, that architecture is mainly the
"chipset"
> architecture, and fortunately, all chipset are similar, however, on other
> architectures (like ARM), lots of diferent architectures do exist. This
> means that you will need to do a "sub-port" of the main arm linux
> architecture to the specific architecture that you are working with (SA
> 1100, XScale, Samsung, philips...)
Interesting links from different ARM core manufacture news:
Atmel & ARM920T
http://www.electronicstimes.com/tech/news/OEG20030221S0021
STMicroelectronics 'Nomadik' ARM926EJ-S
http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Feb2003/4832.htm
ARM926 PrimeXsys platform (PXP), is built around the ARM926EJ-S
http://www.commsdesign.com/design_corner/OEG20030313S0016
IBM Microelectronics & ARM1026EJ-S
http://www.eetuk.com/bus/news/OEG20030403S0029
MediaQ, Inc. & ARM922T
http://www.commsdesign.com/news/market_news/OEG20030414S0034
Agere Systems Inc. & ARM966E
http://www.eetuk.com/tech/news/OEG20030529S0024

VPN

> There are (at least) five different states of power consumptions
> A) Coma Mode - even the clock is stopped, RAM is always supported
> B) Power off - also I/O, display, Flash, etc.. are off,
>     |ON| interrupt needs some power, RAM is preserved
> C) Power off and waiting for key in light sleep.
> * This is where the problem might be *
> D) Running a program
> E) doing fast I/O and/or Flash Write
> 
> Running a program is no problem because if it takes twice the energy
> but completes twice as fast the energy sucked from the AAA*3 is the same.
> 
> Also if everything if off, there is not much power used, but C) worries me.
> Is the ARM & new HW able to stay in light sleep and use minimal current
> the say way the old & slow Saturn did - if not - then I wan't to use
> rechargeables.


Mind if a TI person buts in ?  On the ti-68k calculators option C,
which you are worried about, is implimented with a low power port that
turns off the main oscilator until one of several interupts occur. 
(You can specify which interupts can turn the clock back on)  During
typing, the OS will let int #1 turn the calc back on.  Int #1 goes at
350 hz and it scans the keyboard: so the result is good response to
key presses.


After you stop typing the tios will stop letting auto int #1 turn the
primary clock back on.  The are several other interupts that can turn
the clock back on, but only one of them is a timer. (int 5)  This
second timer will run at 20hz and it maintains things like a blinking
cursor and APD.

So have faith in option c :)


-Samuel S


PS.S. As far as this new calc goes I'll be more impressed when the
makers backport bug fixes for my 49g.

Tue, 05 Aug 2003 11:10:53 -0600, Cyrille de Br�bisson wrote:
> Another thing that you can do is compile a linux kernel for ARM and see
> how big that kernel is...

How much space we would have for it?

For example, on my Linux iPAQ (using StrongARM), kernel is 600 Kb I think.

What about modules? I think that there is a lot of reverse engineering to
get it running there, specially for the graphic output, I think. More info
about Linux on ARM:
http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
http://www.debian.org/ports/arm/
http://www.handhelds.org

Another option would be uCLinux:
http://www.uclinux.org/

Or perhaps playing with uclibc for arm: http://www.uclibc.org

Happy hacking!

-- 
J.Manrique L�pez de la Fuente
Users Club from Gij�n
1077 HPCC Member
AsturLiNUX & HispaLiNUX Member

"Samuel Nyall Stearley" <sstear70@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:551a73ee.0308051652.40762b2e@posting.google.com...
X
> Mind if a TI person buts in ?  On the ti-68k calculators option C,
> which you are worried about, is implimented with a low power port that
> turns off the main oscilator until one of several interupts occur.
> (You can specify which interupts can turn the clock back on)  During
> typing, the OS will let int #1 turn the calc back on.  Int #1 goes at
> 350 hz and it scans the keyboard: so the result is good response to
> key presses.
>
>
> After you stop typing the tios will stop letting auto int #1 turn the
> primary clock back on.  The are several other interupts that can turn
> the clock back on, but only one of them is a timer. (int 5)  This
> second timer will run at 20hz and it maintains things like a blinking
> cursor and APD.
>
> So have faith in option c :)

Thank you!
Phew! <wipes his forehead with his hand>
VPN

Veli-Pekka Nousiainen <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote:

> BUT
> the Nokia phones sell out everything else on the race.

That's not surprising, since they're designed to appeal to the general
public.  HP products *used* to appeal to a considerably higher class of
customers: scientists, engineers and academics.

-- 
Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
                           |  your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"

Wayne Brown wrote:
> "Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote:
>>... and in addition, I propose that we label these keys
>>with the convinient following letters:
>>H J K L (but obviously, these keys would be different from the H J K and L
>>alpha keys :-)
>>...
> Sounds great to me!  :-)
> 
> (I use vi whenever possible; e.g., I'm using it to write this message.)
> 
Yes.  That would be a big help for me, not knowing vi.  (Actually I did 
try vi once but couldn't figure out how do do _anything_.  I had to let 
my session time out just to quit!)  :-)
Tom

On 5/8/03 20:27, in article NGSXa.596$ta2.99@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com, "Wayne
Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> That explains a *lot*.  Nokia phones are among the ugliest devices I've
> ever seen (although most other cell phones aren't much better).

Well, I find the Nokia phones absolutely amazing. So it's a matter of
personal opinion.
Luckily 99% of the world think in a different way than you :)

On 5/8/03 15:47, in article
Pine.LNX.4.33.0308051544560.11902-100000@patchwork.seclogd.org, "Erwann
ABALEA" <erwann@abalea.com> wrote:
> ARMx (where x < 10) are very power efficient, by design. ARM10 (StrongARM)
> can go much faster, but also is more power hungry.

Hum, there's some kind of misunderstanding here.
StrongArm is based on a ARM7 core and was licensed by Intel from Digital.
Nothing to do with ARM10.
ARM7 being older technology is not as power efficient as the ARM9 (smaller
cache, bigger etc)
The new xscale series is not bases on any ARM core, they are just compatible
with ARM instruction set.

Jean-Yves

J.Manrique Lopez de la Fuente <jsmanrique@nospam.net> wrote:

> > The 49G (don't know about the 49G+) was designed by Seymour-Powell very
> > well known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)
> 
> Yes, the HP Morgan :-)
> http://www.seymourpowell.co.uk/work/digital/hp_morgan.html

"We rethought the interface, greatly simplifying the button and graphic
layout "

What a pity...
Even if they think that the 48 button layout is more complicated (I
don't think so), sometimes you should not change something that works.

-- 
Thomas Deniau
"Unix is user friendly. It's just selective when choosing friends."

> Most I like my Matrix-Nokia 7110, with Roller key
> I would love to see that roller in a HP calc.

I wonder if that was under consideration?  Also, those 4-way, rocker-type
arrow keys are very popular, and the one on my Sony camera even has a
forward-push switch (adding an extra key).  Maybe the 49G+ has 4 separate
arrow keys because it uses the same switch membrane as the 49?  Anyway,
those newfangled switches would surely get us one step closer to high-end
handheld calcs being replaced by  PDA's (with plastic poke-stick user
interface).  Also, could you imagine how this group would light up with
outrage over that?

> Then I have 900/1800MHz phones, Nokia and Erisson

A few years ago, Ericsson was trying to get back some market share from
Nokia.  One of the ways they decided to do it was to get rid of the "boxy"
look.  I think the real problem was that people really just felt that the
Nokias had better features.  I think looks had less to do with it,
nevertheless, the entire market is going towards the look most people here
seem to hate.  Sometimes (like with cars) things go in cycles, and maybe it
will eventually be back in style to manufacture a "boxy" looking product.
Maybe then (and only then) the stockholders will let us have the old HP look
once again.

I love the pic at the bottom of this page.  It's what I want to be like when
I grow up!
http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog/sd.htm


Regards,
Tom


"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
news:bgp7or$o3p$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> "Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:NGSXa.596$ta2.99@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > Jean-Yves Avenard <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > On 4/8/03 22:06, in article bgn6ul$1rl$1@quark.scn.rain.com, "G
Savage"
> > > <savage@mtangelz.net> wrote:
> > >> I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this
> model
> > >> and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell?  IMO, I have a
high
> > > The 49G (don't know about the 49G+) was designed by Seymour-Powell
very
> well
> > > known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)
> >
> > That explains a *lot*.  Nokia phones are among the ugliest devices I've
> > ever seen (although most other cell phones aren't much better).
> BUT
> the Nokia phones sell out everything else on the race.
> Some don't like them - that's why the other companies are still around.
> Otherwise we were all Nokia
> I have a City-Phones (1800MHz only: Motorola, Nokia, Siemens)
> Of which the Nokia is the smallest one.
> Then I have 900/1800MHz phones, Nokia and Erisson
> Most I like my Matrix-Nokia 7110, with Roller key
> I would love to see that roller in a HP calc
> VPN
>
>

> Tom, do you mean the Model SD-3300 Educational ??!
> (-;
> VPN

I want to be like that guy on the left.  That way, when I walk down the
street, all the chicks will say, "There goes an engineer!"

Regards,
Tom



"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
news:bgr2oi$s6j$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> "Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
> news:iW5Ya.27816$N31.1643@news02.roc.ny...
> > > Most I like my Matrix-Nokia 7110, with Roller key
> > > I would love to see that roller in a HP calc.
> >
> > I wonder if that was under consideration?  Also, those 4-way,
rocker-type
> > arrow keys are very popular, and the one on my Sony camera even has a
> > forward-push switch (adding an extra key).  Maybe the 49G+ has 4
separate
> > arrow keys because it uses the same switch membrane as the 49?  Anyway,
> > those newfangled switches would surely get us one step closer to
high-end
> > handheld calcs being replaced by  PDA's (with plastic poke-stick user
> > interface).  Also, could you imagine how this group would light up with
> > outrage over that?
>
> I just tried an hour ago the CASIO classpad
> and I was constantly lookin for keytops for the sin
> I was extremely slow to use via the touch screen
> Now I'm just glad that the Xpander was killed.
> A calculator MUST have proper keys - clicking
> X
> > I love the pic at the bottom of this page.  It's what I want to be like
> when
> > I grow up!
> > http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog/sd.htm
> Tom, do you mean the Model SD-3300 Educational ??!
> (-;
> VPN
>
>

Tom Sears <tomREsears@socketsmo.netve> wrote:
> Wayne Brown wrote:
>> "Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote:
>>>... and in addition, I propose that we label these keys
>>>with the convinient following letters:
>>>H J K L (but obviously, these keys would be different from the H J K and L
>>>alpha keys :-)
>>>...
>> Sounds great to me!  :-)
>> 
>> (I use vi whenever possible; e.g., I'm using it to write this message.)
>> 
> Yes.  That would be a big help for me, not knowing vi.  (Actually I did 
> try vi once but couldn't figure out how do do _anything_.  I had to let 
> my session time out just to quit!)  :-)
> Tom

Oops!  I hope I didn't start one of those vi-versus-other-editors wars.
One war at a time here is enough for me.  :-)

(H moves the cursor left; J is up, K is down, L is right.  With a properly
setup termcap file you can use the normal cursor keys on most terminals
and PCs, but I'm a traditionalist and prefer the H J K L keys.  Also,
<ESC>:q! will always get you out of vi, no matter what you're doing --
it's faster than waiting for your session to time out.  :-)

-- 
Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
                           |  your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"

Tennessee Tom <honky@tonkin.com> wrote:

> I love the pic at the bottom of this page.  It's what I want to be like when
> I grow up!
> http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog/sd.htm

Thanks for posting that link!  That shows *exactly* what I mean.  I want a
calculator with the software capabilities of a 49, the I/O and expansion
capabilities of a 48, and a case design that would fit perfectly in the
environment depicted in the pictures on that page.

-- 
Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
                           |  your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"

Glad you enjoyed it!

"Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:necYa.17145$Ee7.9580@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Tennessee Tom <honky@tonkin.com> wrote:
>
> > I love the pic at the bottom of this page.  It's what I want to be like
when
> > I grow up!
> > http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog/sd.htm
>
> Thanks for posting that link!  That shows *exactly* what I mean.  I want a
> calculator with the software capabilities of a 49, the I/O and expansion
> capabilities of a 48, and a case design that would fit perfectly in the
> environment depicted in the pictures on that page.
>
> --
> Wayne Brown                | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
> fwbrown@bellsouth.net      |  if you're good enough.  Otherwise you give
>                            |  your pelt to the trapper."
> "e^(i*pi) = -1"  -- Euler  |           -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"
>

"Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:lecYa.17143$Ee7.5776@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Oops!  I hope I didn't start one of those vi-versus-other-editors wars.
> One war at a time here is enough for me.  :-)
>
> (H moves the cursor left; J is up, K is down, L is right.  With a properly
> setup termcap file you can use the normal cursor keys on most terminals
> and PCs, but I'm a traditionalist and prefer the H J K L keys.  Also,
> <ESC>:q! will always get you out of vi, no matter what you're doing --
> it's faster than waiting for your session to time out.  :-)


I had to download a vi cheatsheet the other day because I couldn't remember
how to do the most basic functions :)  ... and to think I used to write up
entire research projects with vi and LaTeX.

Jean-Yves Avenard <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<BB554579.11BB3%me@privacy.net>...
> On 4/8/03 22:06, in article bgn6ul$1rl$1@quark.scn.rain.com, "G Savage"
> <savage@mtangelz.net> wrote:
> > I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this model
> > and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell?  IMO, I have a high
> The 49G (don't know about the 49G+) was designed by Seymour-Powell very well
> known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)
> 
> Jean-Yves

What does exactly "industrial design" mean ?
Thanks,

Camille

To simplify:

Industrial Design is concerned with the "look" "human interface" and
"marketability" of an object (it's style)

Engineering Design is concerned with the "function", how it's parts interact
with each other, the safety rules and all the things people associate with
engineering.

Al...


"Camille" <camille_mic@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:b88deca7.0308062329.5c9b8d3e@posting.google.com...
> Jean-Yves Avenard <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:<BB554579.11BB3%me@privacy.net>...
> > On 4/8/03 22:06, in article bgn6ul$1rl$1@quark.scn.rain.com, "G Savage"
> > <savage@mtangelz.net> wrote:
> > > I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this
model
> > > and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell?  IMO, I have a high
> > The 49G (don't know about the 49G+) was designed by Seymour-Powell very
well
> > known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)
> >
> > Jean-Yves
>
> What does exactly "industrial design" mean ?
> Thanks,
>
> Camille

"Tom Lake" wrote in message
news:OHcXa.153088$EQ5.93040@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> I don't believe any respectable marketing group would describe the
material
> as simply, "Plastic".  They'd have a fancier name for it such as
> Thermoplastic or something.

If you go to a store, will you find "high density polyethylene waste
receptacle liners" or will you instead find plastic "garbage bags" sitting
on the shelf?  I should think marketing departments would shy away from
words the majority of people can't recognize.




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

> 
> The solution to that problem is:  Never stop using it!  :-)  I've been
> using the "real" vi in Unix and the vi clone "elvis" in Linux and DOS
> since 1988, for programs, documentation (in LaTeX of course), memos,
> email, news articles, and anything else I can find.  I've even been
> known to download source from mainframes, edit it with vi, and upload
> it back to the big iron...

Bah. 'vi'--the first two letters of the word 'vile'.

There is no language but LISP and Emacs is its prophet!

:)

"Donald Bachman" <dbachman@ionet.net> wrote in message
news:716b0838.0308081335.3158815e@posting.google.com...
> >
> > The solution to that problem is:  Never stop using it!  :-)  I've been
> > using the "real" vi in Unix and the vi clone "elvis" in Linux and DOS
> > since 1988, for programs, documentation (in LaTeX of course), memos,
> > email, news articles, and anything else I can find.  I've even been
> > known to download source from mainframes, edit it with vi, and upload
> > it back to the big iron...
>
> Bah. 'vi'--the first two letters of the word 'vile'.
>
> There is no language but LISP and Emacs is its prophet!
>
> :)
Back to calculators. Reverse Polish LISP & Emacs
(as in the later 4x-series)
VPN

"Cyrille de Br�bisson" <cyrille@hp.com> wrote in message
news:3f30399c$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
> Hello,
>
>
> "Tennessee Tom" <honky@tonkin.com> wrote in message
> news:mVSXa.27466$1p7.9216@news02.roc.ny...
> > Cyrille de Br�bisson,
> >
> > If you don't mind, I have a few more questions on the ARM cores::
X
> now, that ARM core includes:
> - theCPU itself (ie: the instructino execution unit which is much more
that
> just an ALU)
> - the cache (on an arm 9, this is usually 2* 16 KB)


I suspect ARM 920T
(or a variant with integrated peripheral & glue circuitry)
http://www.arm.com/armtech/ARM922T?OpenDocument
VPN

dbachman@ionet.net (Donald Bachman) writes:

> Bah. 'vi'--the first two letters of the word 'vile'.
> 
> There is no language but LISP and Emacs is its prophet!

Ack!

Does anybody know why the HP49G+ is expandable and not called the
HP49GX? It must be to emphasize that the HP49G+ is a drastic
improvement over the HP49G and not just including an addition of a
plugin card slot. Or should it be called the HP49GX+ or HP50GX?

Dave

pobox42511@hotmail.com (Dave Kung) wrote in message news:<bf7bd942.0308101835.29df7826@posting.google.com>...
> Does anybody know why the HP49G+ is expandable and not called the
> HP49GX? It must be to emphasize that the HP49G+ is a drastic
> improvement over the HP49G and not just including an addition of a
> plugin card slot. Or should it be called the HP49GX+ or HP50GX?
> 
> Dave

If said calculator is real, then marketing stuffed it up. I'd call it the HP50GX.

Al
www.alpage.ath.cx <--- Web connected LCD.

In message <716b0838.0308081335.3158815e@posting.google.com>, Donald 
Bachman <dbachman@ionet.net> writes
>Bah. 'vi'--the first two letters of the word 'vile'.
>
>There is no language but LISP and Emacs is its prophet!
>
>:)

Shouldn't a LISP lover's smiley be :)))))))))))))))

-- 
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
<firstname>@<surname>.plus.com -- fix the obvious for email

"Bruce Banner" <spamblock@nodomain.nodomain.us> wrote in message
news:04E$ToAYdOO$Ewxf@nodomain.nodomain.us...
> In message <716b0838.0308081335.3158815e@posting.google.com>, Donald
> Bachman <dbachman@ionet.net> writes
> >Bah. 'vi'--the first two letters of the word 'vile'.
> >
> >There is no language but LISP and Emacs is its prophet!
> >
> >:)
>
> Shouldn't a LISP lover's smiley be :)))))))))))))))
>
> -- 
> Bruce Banner
> Secret Labs
> United States
> <firstname>@<surname>.HULK.com -- fix the obvious for email
NO
it should be :}}}}}}}}}}}
NPV

gregoriomunoz@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote:
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

From the datasheet and the graphing calc comparison documents:
"HP makes no representation that a future upgrade will be available."

Hmm, I wonder what that means ;-)

--
Bhuvanesh

Bruce Horrocks <spamblock@nodomain.nodomain.us> writes:
> Shouldn't a LISP lover's smiley be :)))))))))))))))

No, because the paretheses have to be balanced.  (:-)

(!(oh(thats(right(:(-(0)))))))

Eric Smith wrote:
> Bruce Horrocks <spamblock@nodomain.nodomain.us> writes:
>>Shouldn't a LISP lover's smiley be :)))))))))))))))
> 
> No, because the paretheses have to be balanced.  (:-)

"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP_vpn@welho.com> wrote in message
news:bgp7or$o3p$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
> "Wayne Brown" <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:NGSXa.596$ta2.99@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
> > Jean-Yves Avenard <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > On 4/8/03 22:06, in article bgn6ul$1rl$1@quark.scn.rain.com, "G
Savage"
> > > <savage@mtangelz.net> wrote:
> > >> I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this
> model
> > >> and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell?  IMO, I have a
high
> > > The 49G (don't know about the 49G+) was designed by Seymour-Powell
very
> well
> > > known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)
> >
> > That explains a *lot*.  Nokia phones are among the ugliest devices I've
> > ever seen (although most other cell phones aren't much better).
> BUT
> the Nokia phones sell out everything else on the race.
> Some don't like them - that's why the other companies are still around.
> Otherwise we were all Nokia
> I have a City-Phones (1800MHz only: Motorola, Nokia, Siemens)
> Of which the Nokia is the smallest one.
> Then I have 900/1800MHz phones, Nokia and Erisson
> Most I like my Matrix-Nokia 7110, with Roller key
> I would love to see that roller in a HP calc
> VPN
I just got an older model 9110i communicator (grey screen)
I'm giving it to my bride...
VPN