I am on an AS400/Power Series7 for those that don't call it AS400 anymore but anyway

I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because the company wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to it but as we all know you should back up

any folders or libraries before changing them so that what i need to do

I need the exact commands and whats is the best place to save these two libraries so that I can put them back if something goes wrong with the update.

Also, does anyone know if these are critical libraries to the mainframe

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-4, James2000k wrote:
> I am on an AS400/Power Series7 for those that don't call it AS400 anymore but anyway

IBM i documentation is found in the IBM i Knowledge Center.  http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/ssw_ibm_i
 
> I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because the company wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to it but as we all know you should back up
> 
> any folders or libraries before changing them so that what i need to do

Generally speaking, it is best practice to save libraries on a regular basis.  Here, we save all user libraries every night.

> I need the exact commands 

SAVLIB

> and whats is the best place to save these two libraries so that I can put them back if something goes wrong with the update.

That depends entirely on your system.  You can save them to a save file if you have enough disk space, or you can save them onto a tape.

> Also, does anyone know if these are critical libraries to the mainframe

They aren't IBM supplied libraries, so they must be used for some application at your location.  Perhaps your system administrator can help.
  --buck

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-4, James2000k wrote:
> I am on an AS400/Power Series7 for those that don't call it AS400 anymore but anyway
> 
> I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because the company wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to it but as we all know you should back up
> 
> any folders or libraries before changing them so that what i need to do
> 
> I need the exact commands and whats is the best place to save these two libraries so that I can put them back if something goes wrong with the update.
> 
> Also, does anyone know if these are critical libraries to the mainframe

Hi Buck 

Thanks for the breakdown but I need the commands as if you were at the command line

The libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP are the 2 I want to back up. As for space, I would rather store them on the machine because they don't appear to be large files. I also want to know the steps to restore these files at a later time. 

These libraries I found out are used by an outdated application and these folders need to be updated.

On 19-Sep-2016 08:39 -0600, James Kelly wrote:
> <<SNIP>> I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because
> the company wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to
> it but as we all know you should back up any folders or libraries
> before changing them so that [ed: backup is] what I need to do.
>
> I need the exact commands

   No casual reader of the topic could offer exactly what is needed in 
the described situation; parties of the organization and\or with access 
to the system to analyze\review the operations [e.g. B&R], objects, and 
data might be able to offer something approaching worthwhile.

   However, the following request(s) could be sufficient to get you 
started.  Notably missing, is the Device (DEV) related specifications, 
but presumed as-sufficient specifications are offered in a comment at 
the tail of the command string along with a prerequisite command that is 
also commented and precedes the backup request:

    /* CRTSAVF QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP AUT(*EXCLUDE) */

     ? SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP) UPDHST(*NO) SAVACT(*NO)
        SAVFDTA(*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ)
        PVTAUT(*YES) ACCPTH(*YES)
        STG(*KEEP) DTACPR(*YES)
        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
     /* DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP) */

> and what is the best place to save these two libraries so that I can
> put them back if something goes wrong with the update. <<SNIP>>
>

   The "best place" is of course subjective, but backups should be 
stored off-site on external media.  Presuming the recovery-point is 
prior to this specific save activity and updates [i.e. there exists an 
off-site backup available for recovery], then storing the libraries in a 
Save File (SAVF) [as would be effected having removed the comments in 
the above command requests] should be sufficient.

   In the event of some failure for which /recovery/ is required, the 
following scripted requests should restore the two libraries [assuming 
no cross-library dependencies and pre-ordered access-paths] to a 
sufficiently similar state that the applications would continue to 
function without error as they had before things went "wrong":

      DLTLIB LIB(ADPDATA)

      DLTLIB LIB(AVPZIP)

      RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP)
       DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP)
       OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
       OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
       SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
       RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
       DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
       OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)

   If there are cross-library database file dependencies, then refer to 
the messages about what to do to correct the situation per the Defer ID 
(DFRID) value that should be included in that messaging.

-- 
Regards, Chuck

On Wednesday, 21 September 2016 05:24:31 UTC+12, jke...@lipipe.com  wrote:
> On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-4, James2000k wrote:
> > I am on an AS400/Power Series7 for those that don't call it AS400 anymo=
re but anyway
> >=20
> > I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because the company =
wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to it but as we all =
know you should back up
> >=20
> > any folders or libraries before changing them so that what i need to do
> >=20
> > I need the exact commands and whats is the best place to save these two=
 libraries so that I can put them back if something goes wrong with the upd=
ate.
> >=20
> > Also, does anyone know if these are critical libraries to the mainframe
>=20
> Hi Buck=20
>=20
> Thanks for the breakdown but I need the commands as if you were at the co=
mmand line

An exact command is not something we can really do without a lot more knowl=
edge of your systems.  You can prompt the SAVLIB command (by typing it on t=
he command line and pressing F4) which will list the parameters it accepts.=
  You can use the help function (pressing F1) to get further details of the=
 options.

Doesn't your company peform regular backups of your systems?  If not, that =
would be ringing severe alarm bells to me.  If so, you may already have a b=
ackup you can use for a possible restore.

> The libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP are the 2 I want to back up. As for spac=
e, I would rather store them on the machine because they don't appear to be=
 large files. I also want to know the steps to restore these files at a lat=
er time.=20
>=20
> These libraries I found out are used by an outdated application and these=
 folders need to be updated.

You seem to be mixing up terms here, making it a little difficult to know w=
hat you are referring to.  You mention ADPDATA and AVPZIP as being librarie=
s then later you refer to them as files.  You then mention "folders".  Fold=
ers would technically exist in the QDLS file system rather than the library=
 file system and the backup details would be very different.  Unless by "fo=
lders" you were referring to the unix like /Root filesystem (although direc=
tory might be a better term there), in which case the backup details would =
be different again.

Assuming you do mean libraries (and the other terminology is mixed up) you =
can back them up to disk.  The easiest would probably be to use a save file=
 (abbreviated as SAVF).  You can only back up 1 library to a save file, so =
you would need to create 2 save files - 1 for each library.

e.g.
CRTSAVF FILE(library/savf_name)

Library would be the library you want to SAVF to reside in and savf_name is=
 the name you'd give the SAVF (e.g. SAV_ADPDAT).

To backup the library, you'd enter something like the following (rememberin=
g you can press F4 to prompt the command and list the parameters and the li=
brary/savf_name is the SAVF you created previously):
SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA) DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(library/savf_name) UPDHST(*NO) SAVFDTA(=
*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ) PVTAUT(*YES) DTACPR(*YES)

You would repeat these steps for the other library.

To restore, you should first clear the library (or delete it).  eg:
CLRLIB ADPDATA

To issue the RSTLIB command:
RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA) DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(library/savf_name) PVTAUT(*YES)

And again, repeat for the other library.

This is assuming there are no dependant files in other libraries (such as l=
ogical files), though this is not normal practice and if these are the only=
 libraries for this product, rather unlikely.

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 5:03:15 PM UTC-4, CRPence wrote:
> On 19-Sep-2016 08:39 -0600, James Kelly wrote:
> > <<SNIP>> I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because
> > the company wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to
> > it but as we all know you should back up any folders or libraries
> > before changing them so that [ed: backup is] what I need to do.
> >
> > I need the exact commands
> 
>    No casual reader of the topic could offer exactly what is needed in 
> the described situation; parties of the organization and\or with access 
> to the system to analyze\review the operations [e.g. B&R], objects, and 
> data might be able to offer something approaching worthwhile.
> 
>    However, the following request(s) could be sufficient to get you 
> started.  Notably missing, is the Device (DEV) related specifications, 
> but presumed as-sufficient specifications are offered in a comment at 
> the tail of the command string along with a prerequisite command that is 
> also commented and precedes the backup request:
> 
>     /* CRTSAVF QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP AUT(*EXCLUDE) */
> 
>      ? SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP) UPDHST(*NO) SAVACT(*NO)
>         SAVFDTA(*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ)
>         PVTAUT(*YES) ACCPTH(*YES)
>         STG(*KEEP) DTACPR(*YES)
>         OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
>         OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
>      /* DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP) */
> 
> > and what is the best place to save these two libraries so that I can
> > put them back if something goes wrong with the update. <<SNIP>>
> >
> 
>    The "best place" is of course subjective, but backups should be 
> stored off-site on external media.  Presuming the recovery-point is 
> prior to this specific save activity and updates [i.e. there exists an 
> off-site backup available for recovery], then storing the libraries in a 
> Save File (SAVF) [as would be effected having removed the comments in 
> the above command requests] should be sufficient.
> 
>    In the event of some failure for which /recovery/ is required, the 
> following scripted requests should restore the two libraries [assuming 
> no cross-library dependencies and pre-ordered access-paths] to a 
> sufficiently similar state that the applications would continue to 
> function without error as they had before things went "wrong":
> 
>       DLTLIB LIB(ADPDATA)
> 
>       DLTLIB LIB(AVPZIP)
> 
>       RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP)
>        DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP)
>        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
>        OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
>        SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
>        RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
>        DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
>        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> 
>    If there are cross-library database file dependencies, then refer to 
> the messages about what to do to correct the situation per the Defer ID 
> (DFRID) value that should be included in that messaging.
> 
> -- 
> Regards, Chuck

Hi Chuck,

I appreciate the response and thoroughness of answer. As for the commands you listed are you typing each line one by one onto a command line or is there a way to type all this commands and then execute?
I am also thinking instead of setting it to backup to an external drive what commands can I use to just save it locally . Then when I update the 2 Libraries I can just run a command to restore the Libraries if the updates do not work.


I agree that a backup should be the external drive but the mainframe is at a remote location. 


These do not appear to be System files but I am from the Windows environment
>     /* CRTSAVF QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP AUT(*EXCLUDE) */
> 
>      ? SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP) UPDHST(*NO) SAVACT(*NO)
>         SAVFDTA(*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ)
>         PVTAUT(*YES) ACCPTH(*YES)
>         STG(*KEEP) DTACPR(*YES)
>         OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
>         OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
>      /* DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP) */

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:29:25 AM UTC-4, jke...@lipipe.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 5:03:15 PM UTC-4, CRPence wrote:
> > On 19-Sep-2016 08:39 -0600, James Kelly wrote:
> > > <<SNIP>> I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because
> > > the company wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to
> > > it but as we all know you should back up any folders or libraries
> > > before changing them so that [ed: backup is] what I need to do.
> > >
> > > I need the exact commands
> > 
> >    No casual reader of the topic could offer exactly what is needed in 
> > the described situation; parties of the organization and\or with access 
> > to the system to analyze\review the operations [e.g. B&R], objects, and 
> > data might be able to offer something approaching worthwhile.
> > 
> >    However, the following request(s) could be sufficient to get you 
> > started.  Notably missing, is the Device (DEV) related specifications, 
> > but presumed as-sufficient specifications are offered in a comment at 
> > the tail of the command string along with a prerequisite command that is 
> > also commented and precedes the backup request:
> > 
> >     /* CRTSAVF QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP AUT(*EXCLUDE) */
> > 
> >      ? SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP) UPDHST(*NO) SAVACT(*NO)
> >         SAVFDTA(*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ)
> >         PVTAUT(*YES) ACCPTH(*YES)
> >         STG(*KEEP) DTACPR(*YES)
> >         OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
> >         OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> >      /* DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP) */
> > 
> > > and what is the best place to save these two libraries so that I can
> > > put them back if something goes wrong with the update. <<SNIP>>
> > >
> > 
> >    The "best place" is of course subjective, but backups should be 
> > stored off-site on external media.  Presuming the recovery-point is 
> > prior to this specific save activity and updates [i.e. there exists an 
> > off-site backup available for recovery], then storing the libraries in a 
> > Save File (SAVF) [as would be effected having removed the comments in 
> > the above command requests] should be sufficient.
> > 
> >    In the event of some failure for which /recovery/ is required, the 
> > following scripted requests should restore the two libraries [assuming 
> > no cross-library dependencies and pre-ordered access-paths] to a 
> > sufficiently similar state that the applications would continue to 
> > function without error as they had before things went "wrong":
> > 
> >       DLTLIB LIB(ADPDATA)
> > 
> >       DLTLIB LIB(AVPZIP)
> > 
> >       RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP)
> >        DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP)
> >        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
> >        OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
> >        SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
> >        RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
> >        DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
> >        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> > 
> >    If there are cross-library database file dependencies, then refer to 
> > the messages about what to do to correct the situation per the Defer ID 
> > (DFRID) value that should be included in that messaging.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Regards, Chuck
> 
> Hi Chuck,
> 
> I appreciate the response and thoroughness of answer. As for the commands you listed are you typing each line one by one onto a command line or is there a way to type all this commands and then execute?
> I am also thinking instead of setting it to backup to an external drive what commands can I use to just save it locally . Then when I update the 2 Libraries I can just run a command to restore the Libraries if the updates do not work.
> 
> 
> I agree that a backup should be the external drive but the mainframe is at a remote location. 
> 
> 

As for more information 

It shows that ADPDATA under Library with the attribute PROD

Under Display Library Description 

ASP Number 1
ASP Device *SYSBAS
ASP Group  *SYSBAS
Create Authority *SYSVAL
Create object auditing *SYSVAL


For AVPZIP

It shows 
AVPZIP  under Library with Attribute PROD


Under Description
ASP number 1
ASP Device SYSBAS
ASP Group SYSBAS
Create Authority SYSVAL
Create object auditing SYSVAL

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:48:02 AM UTC-4, jke...@lipipe.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:29:25 AM UTC-4, jke...@lipipe.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 5:03:15 PM UTC-4, CRPence wrote:
> > > On 19-Sep-2016 08:39 -0600, James Kelly wrote:
> > > > <<SNIP>> I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because
> > > > the company wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to
> > > > it but as we all know you should back up any folders or libraries
> > > > before changing them so that [ed: backup is] what I need to do.
> > > >
> > > > I need the exact commands
> > > 
> > >    No casual reader of the topic could offer exactly what is needed in 
> > > the described situation; parties of the organization and\or with access 
> > > to the system to analyze\review the operations [e.g. B&R], objects, and 
> > > data might be able to offer something approaching worthwhile.
> > > 
> > >    However, the following request(s) could be sufficient to get you 
> > > started.  Notably missing, is the Device (DEV) related specifications, 
> > > but presumed as-sufficient specifications are offered in a comment at 
> > > the tail of the command string along with a prerequisite command that is 
> > > also commented and precedes the backup request:
> > > 
> > >     /* CRTSAVF QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP AUT(*EXCLUDE) */
> > > 
> > >      ? SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP) UPDHST(*NO) SAVACT(*NO)
> > >         SAVFDTA(*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ)
> > >         PVTAUT(*YES) ACCPTH(*YES)
> > >         STG(*KEEP) DTACPR(*YES)
> > >         OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
> > >         OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> > >      /* DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP) */
> > > 
> > > > and what is the best place to save these two libraries so that I can
> > > > put them back if something goes wrong with the update. <<SNIP>>
> > > >
> > > 
> > >    The "best place" is of course subjective, but backups should be 
> > > stored off-site on external media.  Presuming the recovery-point is 
> > > prior to this specific save activity and updates [i.e. there exists an 
> > > off-site backup available for recovery], then storing the libraries in a 
> > > Save File (SAVF) [as would be effected having removed the comments in 
> > > the above command requests] should be sufficient.
> > > 
> > >    In the event of some failure for which /recovery/ is required, the 
> > > following scripted requests should restore the two libraries [assuming 
> > > no cross-library dependencies and pre-ordered access-paths] to a 
> > > sufficiently similar state that the applications would continue to 
> > > function without error as they had before things went "wrong":
> > > 
> > >       DLTLIB LIB(ADPDATA)
> > > 
> > >       DLTLIB LIB(AVPZIP)
> > > 
> > >       RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP)
> > >        DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP)
> > >        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
> > >        OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
> > >        SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
> > >        RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
> > >        DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
> > >        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> > > 
> > >    If there are cross-library database file dependencies, then refer to 
> > > the messages about what to do to correct the situation per the Defer ID 
> > > (DFRID) value that should be included in that messaging.
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Regards, Chuck
> > 
> > Hi Chuck,
> > 
> > I appreciate the response and thoroughness of answer. As for the commands you listed are you typing each line one by one onto a command line or is there a way to type all this commands and then execute?
> > I am also thinking instead of setting it to backup to an external drive what commands can I use to just save it locally . Then when I update the 2 Libraries I can just run a command to restore the Libraries if the updates do not work.
> > 
> > 
> > I agree that a backup should be the external drive but the mainframe is at a remote location. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> As for more information 
> 
> It shows that ADPDATA under Library with the attribute PROD
> 
> Under Display Library Description 
> 
> ASP Number 1
> ASP Device *SYSBAS
> ASP Group  *SYSBAS
> Create Authority *SYSVAL
> Create object auditing *SYSVAL
> 
> 
> For AVPZIP
> 
> It shows 
> AVPZIP  under Library with Attribute PROD
> 
> 
> Under Description
> ASP number 1
> ASP Device SYSBAS
> ASP Group SYSBAS
> Create Authority SYSVAL
> Create object auditing SYSVAL

I am also able to connect to the Mainframe with iSeries navigator and wanted to know would I be able to access these libraries from that program and could i just copy and paste files back into the Library

On 21-Sep-2016 08:29 -0600, jkelly@lipipe.com wrote:
> I appreciate the response and thoroughness of answer.

   The reply by jsev99 points out a flaw in the commands I gave in which 
I allude to the possible use of a save file.  Originally I had composed 
the save request for use without save files [for which they should work 
as shown, given a proper Device (DEV) specification].  But that backup 
request is not as easily converted to use with a save file, as is 
implied by my suggestion of just un-commenting; i.e. merely adding the 
noted DEV() and SAVF() parameter specifications is not sufficient, due 
to the limitation of "back up 1 library to a save file", because the 
request would error per the restriction with msg CPF3789 "Only one 
library allowed with specified parameters."  Thus, I give a revised 
version below:

   The backup [to local DASD\storage] phase:

     CRTSAVF QGPL/SV_ADPDATA AUT(*EXCLUDE)
       TEXT('SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA)')

     CRTSAVF QGPL/SV_AVPZIP  AUT(*EXCLUDE)
       TEXT('SAVLIB LIB(AVPZIP )')

     SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA ) UPDHST(*NO) SAVACT(*NO)
        SAVFDTA(*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ)
        PVTAUT(*YES) ACCPTH(*YES)
        STG(*KEEP) DTACPR(*YES)
        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
        DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SV_ADPDATA)

     SAVLIB LIB( AVPZIP ) UPDHST(*NO) SAVACT(*NO)
        SAVFDTA(*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ)
        PVTAUT(*YES) ACCPTH(*YES)
        STG(*KEEP) DTACPR(*YES)
        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
        DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SV_AVPZIP)

   The recovery phase [refer to prior response for additional commentary]:

      DLTLIB LIB(ADPDATA)

      DLTLIB LIB(AVPZIP )

      RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA )
       DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SV_ADPDATA)
       OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
       OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
       SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
       RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
       DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
       OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)

      RSTLIB SAVLIB( AVPZIP )
       DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SV_AVPZIP)
       OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
       OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
       SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
       RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
       DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
       OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)

   After recovery is verified, consider what to do with the backup made 
to disk; e.g. perhaps the following cleanup:

     DLTF QGPL/SV_ADPDATA

     DLTF QGPL/SV_AVPZIP

>
> As for the commands you listed, are you typing each line one by one
> onto a command line

   That is how they are presented; as an interactive script of 
successive requests to be issued on\at a command-line.

> or is there a way to type all this commands and then execute?

   The requests can be typed\stored elsewhere from which they can later 
be executed, but that would likely be a much longer discussion.  Also, 
for the layperson, there are complications to be overcome [especially 
for save\restore] whereby there may be /errors/ for which [re]actions 
are not as easily coded as they are handled by actual review of the 
issuer of the commands; decisions on whether or how to re-issue the 
commands is not something a novice would want to undertake without 
direct review of the result from each request.

   The requests could be coded in a file [a source member] that either 
could be interpreted CL or compiled CL [into a CL Program (CLP) or an 
ILE CL Program (CLLE)].  The system offers REXX that enables the 
double-quote delimited commands to be interpreted directly, or the CL 
stream job [e.g. Submit Database Job (SBMDBJOB)] to process the requests 
when coded with appropriate line-continuation and encapsulated in 
//BCHJOB and //ENDBCHJOB control specifications [like mainframe job 
control statements].

>
> I am also thinking instead of setting it to backup to an external
> drive what commands can I use to just save it locally.

   Without any punctuation within, and ending with a period vs a 
question mark [per "can I" vs /I can/], I am unsure how to interpret 
what is stated [�or inquired?] above; also unsure, if "external drive" 
implies /remote media/ or external media [by which I mean physical 
storage other than internal DASD].  Nonetheless:

   Saving to external media [vs save file] would allow specifying both 
libraries on just the one Save Library (SAVLIB) command.

>
> Then when I update the 2 Libraries I can just run a command to
> restore the Libraries if the updates do not work.

   And having saved to external media would allow specifying both 
libraries on just the one Restore Library (RSTLIB) command.

>
> I agree that a backup should be the external drive but the mainframe
> is at a remote location.

   FWiW: The AS/400 was often called a mini-computer in its earliest 
incarnation, though long [since] categorized as a /midrange/ system, 
situated somewhere between the mini and the mainframe; the IBM Power 
Systems are not the same as the IBM Mainframe was, and I presume the 
mainframes are still not [solely] Power architecture, even if they might 
have integrated some Power chips.

   I infer the IBM i is being referred to, above, as the "mainframe"? 
And if so, after a backup is made, the [binary\image] of the data can be 
copied elsewhere [e.g. off-site to other media, including DASD on 
another system including a PC]; i.e. the system being in a /remote/ 
location is limited only by the bandwidth for copying the data to any 
other location(s).

-- 
Regards, Chuck

On 21-Sep-2016 11:45 -0600, James K wrote:
> I am also able to connect to the Mainframe with iSeries navigator and
> wanted to know would I be able to access these libraries from that
> program and could i just copy and paste files back into the Library

   That comment clarifies the reference to the IBM i as /the Mainframe/ 
[and for which I suggested the IBM i is not a mainframe; the system is 
either an IBM Power System or some prior iteration, so reference to the 
system by the OS name is often the cleanest\clearest, just as with PCs 
there is generally little value in knowing what hardware is behind 
the\which OS being used].

   The IBM i is object-based such that unlike many other OS, *not* 
/everything is a file/; the *data* can be copied betwixt heterogeneous 
systems, but not the *objects*.  The objects [and\with data] are best 
/saved/ from which they can be restored, unless all that is required is 
a backup of the data -- noting that /data/ may or may not imply physical 
order and relative record number (RRN) for which data-only copies are 
generally not a viable replacement for object-save.

-- 
Regards, Chuck

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 12:45:24 PM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:48:02 AM UTC-4, jke...@lipipe.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:29:25 AM UTC-4, jke...@lipipe.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 5:03:15 PM UTC-4, CRPence wrote:
> > > > On 19-Sep-2016 08:39 -0600, James Kelly wrote:
> > > > > <<SNIP>> I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because
> > > > > the company wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to
> > > > > it but as we all know you should back up any folders or libraries
> > > > > before changing them so that [ed: backup is] what I need to do.
> > > > >
> > > > > I need the exact commands
> > > > 
> > > >    No casual reader of the topic could offer exactly what is needed in 
> > > > the described situation; parties of the organization and\or with access 
> > > > to the system to analyze\review the operations [e.g. B&R], objects, and 
> > > > data might be able to offer something approaching worthwhile.
> > > > 
> > > >    However, the following request(s) could be sufficient to get you 
> > > > started.  Notably missing, is the Device (DEV) related specifications, 
> > > > but presumed as-sufficient specifications are offered in a comment at 
> > > > the tail of the command string along with a prerequisite command that is 
> > > > also commented and precedes the backup request:
> > > > 
> > > >     /* CRTSAVF QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP AUT(*EXCLUDE) */
> > > > 
> > > >      ? SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP) UPDHST(*NO) SAVACT(*NO)
> > > >         SAVFDTA(*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ)
> > > >         PVTAUT(*YES) ACCPTH(*YES)
> > > >         STG(*KEEP) DTACPR(*YES)
> > > >         OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
> > > >         OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> > > >      /* DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP) */
> > > > 
> > > > > and what is the best place to save these two libraries so that I can
> > > > > put them back if something goes wrong with the update. <<SNIP>>
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > >    The "best place" is of course subjective, but backups should be 
> > > > stored off-site on external media.  Presuming the recovery-point is 
> > > > prior to this specific save activity and updates [i.e. there exists an 
> > > > off-site backup available for recovery], then storing the libraries in a 
> > > > Save File (SAVF) [as would be effected having removed the comments in 
> > > > the above command requests] should be sufficient.
> > > > 
> > > >    In the event of some failure for which /recovery/ is required, the 
> > > > following scripted requests should restore the two libraries [assuming 
> > > > no cross-library dependencies and pre-ordered access-paths] to a 
> > > > sufficiently similar state that the applications would continue to 
> > > > function without error as they had before things went "wrong":
> > > > 
> > > >       DLTLIB LIB(ADPDATA)
> > > > 
> > > >       DLTLIB LIB(AVPZIP)
> > > > 
> > > >       RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP)
> > > >        DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP)
> > > >        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
> > > >        OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
> > > >        SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
> > > >        RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
> > > >        DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
> > > >        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> > > > 
> > > >    If there are cross-library database file dependencies, then refer to 
> > > > the messages about what to do to correct the situation per the Defer ID 
> > > > (DFRID) value that should be included in that messaging.
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > Regards, Chuck
> > > 
> > > Hi Chuck,
> > > 
> > > I appreciate the response and thoroughness of answer. As for the commands you listed are you typing each line one by one onto a command line or is there a way to type all this commands and then execute?
> > > I am also thinking instead of setting it to backup to an external drive what commands can I use to just save it locally . Then when I update the 2 Libraries I can just run a command to restore the Libraries if the updates do not work.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I agree that a backup should be the external drive but the mainframe is at a remote location. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > As for more information 
> > 
> > It shows that ADPDATA under Library with the attribute PROD
> > 
> > Under Display Library Description 
> > 
> > ASP Number 1
> > ASP Device *SYSBAS
> > ASP Group  *SYSBAS
> > Create Authority *SYSVAL
> > Create object auditing *SYSVAL
> > 
> > 
> > For AVPZIP
> > 
> > It shows 
> > AVPZIP  under Library with Attribute PROD
> > 
> > 
> > Under Description
> > ASP number 1
> > ASP Device SYSBAS
> > ASP Group SYSBAS
> > Create Authority SYSVAL
> > Create object auditing SYSVAL
> 
> I am also able to connect to the Mainframe with iSeries navigator and wanted to know would I be able to access these libraries from that program and could i just copy and paste files back into the Library

The software is called IBM System i Navigator version 7 rel 1

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 1:08:29 PM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 12:45:24 PM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:48:02 AM UTC-4, jke...@lipipe.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:29:25 AM UTC-4, jke...@lipipe.com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 5:03:15 PM UTC-4, CRPence wrote:
> > > > > On 19-Sep-2016 08:39 -0600, James Kelly wrote:
> > > > > > <<SNIP>> I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because
> > > > > > the company wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to
> > > > > > it but as we all know you should back up any folders or libraries
> > > > > > before changing them so that [ed: backup is] what I need to do.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I need the exact commands
> > > > > 
> > > > >    No casual reader of the topic could offer exactly what is needed in 
> > > > > the described situation; parties of the organization and\or with access 
> > > > > to the system to analyze\review the operations [e.g. B&R], objects, and 
> > > > > data might be able to offer something approaching worthwhile.
> > > > > 
> > > > >    However, the following request(s) could be sufficient to get you 
> > > > > started.  Notably missing, is the Device (DEV) related specifications, 
> > > > > but presumed as-sufficient specifications are offered in a comment at 
> > > > > the tail of the command string along with a prerequisite command that is 
> > > > > also commented and precedes the backup request:
> > > > > 
> > > > >     /* CRTSAVF QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP AUT(*EXCLUDE) */
> > > > > 
> > > > >      ? SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP) UPDHST(*NO) SAVACT(*NO)
> > > > >         SAVFDTA(*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ)
> > > > >         PVTAUT(*YES) ACCPTH(*YES)
> > > > >         STG(*KEEP) DTACPR(*YES)
> > > > >         OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
> > > > >         OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> > > > >      /* DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP) */
> > > > > 
> > > > > > and what is the best place to save these two libraries so that I can
> > > > > > put them back if something goes wrong with the update. <<SNIP>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > >    The "best place" is of course subjective, but backups should be 
> > > > > stored off-site on external media.  Presuming the recovery-point is 
> > > > > prior to this specific save activity and updates [i.e. there exists an 
> > > > > off-site backup available for recovery], then storing the libraries in a 
> > > > > Save File (SAVF) [as would be effected having removed the comments in 
> > > > > the above command requests] should be sufficient.
> > > > > 
> > > > >    In the event of some failure for which /recovery/ is required, the 
> > > > > following scripted requests should restore the two libraries [assuming 
> > > > > no cross-library dependencies and pre-ordered access-paths] to a 
> > > > > sufficiently similar state that the applications would continue to 
> > > > > function without error as they had before things went "wrong":
> > > > > 
> > > > >       DLTLIB LIB(ADPDATA)
> > > > > 
> > > > >       DLTLIB LIB(AVPZIP)
> > > > > 
> > > > >       RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP)
> > > > >        DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP)
> > > > >        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
> > > > >        OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
> > > > >        SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
> > > > >        RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
> > > > >        DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
> > > > >        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> > > > > 
> > > > >    If there are cross-library database file dependencies, then refer to 
> > > > > the messages about what to do to correct the situation per the Defer ID 
> > > > > (DFRID) value that should be included in that messaging.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > Regards, Chuck
> > > > 
> > > > Hi Chuck,
> > > > 
> > > > I appreciate the response and thoroughness of answer. As for the commands you listed are you typing each line one by one onto a command line or is there a way to type all this commands and then execute?
> > > > I am also thinking instead of setting it to backup to an external drive what commands can I use to just save it locally . Then when I update the 2 Libraries I can just run a command to restore the Libraries if the updates do not work.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I agree that a backup should be the external drive but the mainframe is at a remote location. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > As for more information 
> > > 
> > > It shows that ADPDATA under Library with the attribute PROD
> > > 
> > > Under Display Library Description 
> > > 
> > > ASP Number 1
> > > ASP Device *SYSBAS
> > > ASP Group  *SYSBAS
> > > Create Authority *SYSVAL
> > > Create object auditing *SYSVAL
> > > 
> > > 
> > > For AVPZIP
> > > 
> > > It shows 
> > > AVPZIP  under Library with Attribute PROD
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Under Description
> > > ASP number 1
> > > ASP Device SYSBAS
> > > ASP Group SYSBAS
> > > Create Authority SYSVAL
> > > Create object auditing SYSVAL
> > 
> > I am also able to connect to the Mainframe with iSeries navigator and wanted to know would I be able to access these libraries from that program and could i just copy and paste files back into the Library
> 
> The software is called IBM System i Navigator version 7 rel 1

It is a iSeries Power 7 

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 1:08:29 PM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 12:45:24 PM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:48:02 AM UTC-4, jke...@lipipe.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:29:25 AM UTC-4, jke...@lipipe.com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 5:03:15 PM UTC-4, CRPence wrote:
> > > > > On 19-Sep-2016 08:39 -0600, James Kelly wrote:
> > > > > > <<SNIP>> I need to back up the Libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP because
> > > > > > the company wants to do an update to those folders by adding files to
> > > > > > it but as we all know you should back up any folders or libraries
> > > > > > before changing them so that [ed: backup is] what I need to do.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I need the exact commands
> > > > > 
> > > > >    No casual reader of the topic could offer exactly what is needed in 
> > > > > the described situation; parties of the organization and\or with access 
> > > > > to the system to analyze\review the operations [e.g. B&R], objects, and 
> > > > > data might be able to offer something approaching worthwhile.
> > > > > 
> > > > >    However, the following request(s) could be sufficient to get you 
> > > > > started.  Notably missing, is the Device (DEV) related specifications, 
> > > > > but presumed as-sufficient specifications are offered in a comment at 
> > > > > the tail of the command string along with a prerequisite command that is 
> > > > > also commented and precedes the backup request:
> > > > > 
> > > > >     /* CRTSAVF QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP AUT(*EXCLUDE) */
> > > > > 
> > > > >      ? SAVLIB LIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP) UPDHST(*NO) SAVACT(*NO)
> > > > >         SAVFDTA(*YES) SPLFDTA(*ALL) QDTA(*DTAQ)
> > > > >         PVTAUT(*YES) ACCPTH(*YES)
> > > > >         STG(*KEEP) DTACPR(*YES)
> > > > >         OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
> > > > >         OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> > > > >      /* DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP) */
> > > > > 
> > > > > > and what is the best place to save these two libraries so that I can
> > > > > > put them back if something goes wrong with the update. <<SNIP>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > >    The "best place" is of course subjective, but backups should be 
> > > > > stored off-site on external media.  Presuming the recovery-point is 
> > > > > prior to this specific save activity and updates [i.e. there exists an 
> > > > > off-site backup available for recovery], then storing the libraries in a 
> > > > > Save File (SAVF) [as would be effected having removed the comments in 
> > > > > the above command requests] should be sufficient.
> > > > > 
> > > > >    In the event of some failure for which /recovery/ is required, the 
> > > > > following scripted requests should restore the two libraries [assuming 
> > > > > no cross-library dependencies and pre-ordered access-paths] to a 
> > > > > sufficiently similar state that the applications would continue to 
> > > > > function without error as they had before things went "wrong":
> > > > > 
> > > > >       DLTLIB LIB(ADPDATA)
> > > > > 
> > > > >       DLTLIB LIB(AVPZIP)
> > > > > 
> > > > >       RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA AVPZIP)
> > > > >        DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SAV_ADPAVP)
> > > > >        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
> > > > >        OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
> > > > >        SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
> > > > >        RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
> > > > >        DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
> > > > >        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
> > > > > 
> > > > >    If there are cross-library database file dependencies, then refer to 
> > > > > the messages about what to do to correct the situation per the Defer ID 
> > > > > (DFRID) value that should be included in that messaging.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > Regards, Chuck
> > > > 
> > > > Hi Chuck,
> > > > 
> > > > I appreciate the response and thoroughness of answer. As for the commands you listed are you typing each line one by one onto a command line or is there a way to type all this commands and then execute?
> > > > I am also thinking instead of setting it to backup to an external drive what commands can I use to just save it locally . Then when I update the 2 Libraries I can just run a command to restore the Libraries if the updates do not work.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I agree that a backup should be the external drive but the mainframe is at a remote location. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > As for more information 
> > > 
> > > It shows that ADPDATA under Library with the attribute PROD
> > > 
> > > Under Display Library Description 
> > > 
> > > ASP Number 1
> > > ASP Device *SYSBAS
> > > ASP Group  *SYSBAS
> > > Create Authority *SYSVAL
> > > Create object auditing *SYSVAL
> > > 
> > > 
> > > For AVPZIP
> > > 
> > > It shows 
> > > AVPZIP  under Library with Attribute PROD
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Under Description
> > > ASP number 1
> > > ASP Device SYSBAS
> > > ASP Group SYSBAS
> > > Create Authority SYSVAL
> > > Create object auditing SYSVAL
> > 
> > I am also able to connect to the Mainframe with iSeries navigator and wanted to know would I be able to access these libraries from that program and could i just copy and paste files back into the Library
> 
> The software is called IBM System i Navigator version 7 rel 1

Is it possible to do any updates of these two libraries using this software?

I can access the Libraries from the i Navigator program and I also have installed IBM i access for Windows with the Data transfer to IBM 

I know we are working with the commands for the black and green screens but maybe this is an option as well.

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-4, James2000k wrote:
> Thanks for the breakdown but I need the commands as if you were at the co=
mmand line

Despite the first line of the original post, it doesn't seem as though you =
are at all familiar with the operating system.  That's no criticism: we all=
 were there at some point!

Chuck gave you a very good starting place for a script to save those librar=
ies.  You will need to customise it for your system.  In addition, you will=
 need to have the proper authority to save and restore these libraries.  Al=
so, you'll need to have exclusive access to the libraries, meaning the user=
s will need to be out of the application.  When Chuck speaks of cross-libra=
ry dependencies, he means that some programmer has created a view in BUCKLI=
B that refers to a table in ADPDATA.  Or that a view in ADPDATA points to a=
 table in AVPZIP, so that restoring ADPDATA will fail if it is done before =
AVPZIP.  The point being that you can be saving ADPDATA but there are still=
 other objects on the system which should be saved at the same time, in ord=
er to 'synch up' all of the objects which make up the entire application.

> The libraries ADPDATA and AVPZIP are the 2 I want to back up. As for spac=
e, I would rather store them on the machine because they don't appear to be=
 large files.=20

This doesn't pass the sniff test.  How did you determine the sizes of these=
 libraries?  Of course I can't tell what those libraries are for, but it is=
 my experience that most 'data' libraries contain lots of... well, data.

> I also want to know the steps to restore these files at a later time.=20

Chuck described RSTLIB that will be a good basis for your script.  Again, y=
ou will need authority to delete and restore those libraries -- this might =
be different to the authority needed to save them!  Test your ability to re=
store by restoring to a new library... RSTLIB(JAMESADP) or something like t=
hat.  Again, you will need exclusive access to the libraries.

> These libraries I found out are used by an outdated application and these=
 folders need to be updated.

Very generally speaking, when a vendor sends updates, they also send a list=
 of prerequisites.  Instructions for things that need to happen before the =
update is done.  If the vendor did not send one, I'd call them and make sur=
e they didn't omit it.  At the very least, calling them will get you in tou=
ch with their support desk; these are the people who will be able to give y=
ou good advice on specifics for their application.  Better than a mailing l=
ist anyway.

Also, definitely check with your system admin / operations staff to make su=
re these libraries are part of the backup strategy.  There's nothing worse =
than updating vendor software and not saving the application after it's bee=
n updated :-(

Good luck!
  --buck

Thank's Buck, I appreciate you seeing that I am not a pro on this machine a=
nd I was sought of thrown into this. However, I will make the best of it. S=
o just recapping what you said and you stated that the vendor has to give a=
 prerequisite list of what needs to be done to the system before the update=
? If I ask them for this will they know what I am requesting from them and =
if not how do I reply in detail what I need from them?

As for checking my authority to RSTLIB are you saying create a library then=
 delete it then run this RSTLIB command?


I really need a plan how to tackle this update.

On 22-Sep-2016 06:43 -0600, James K wrote:
> On 22-Sep-2016 06:17 -0600, Buck wrote:
>> On Monday, 19-Sep-2016 at 09:39:49 UTC-4, James2000k wrote:
>>> [�] I also want to know the steps to restore these files at a
>>> later time.
>> Chuck described RSTLIB that will be a good basis for your script.
>> Again, you will need authority to delete and restore those
>> libraries -- this might be different to the authority needed to
>> save them!  Test your ability to restore by restoring to a new
>> library... RSTLIB(JAMESADP) or something like that.  Again, you
>> will need exclusive access to the libraries.
>> [�]
>>
> [�]
> As for checking my authority to RSTLIB are you saying create a
> library then delete it then run this RSTLIB command?
> [�]

   Following the same "backup" instructions from 
[https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.ibm.as400.misc/uXoge9etT1w/HuWSFCJFBAAJ], 
the following scripted actions could be performed instead of the 
"recovery phase".  These actions could serve as an effective 
test-script, with regard to the authority to effect the actions, but 
would not be a generally-valid test for the other effects of the 
restore; potentially, numerous /errors/ may be seen in such restores to 
an alternate library name onto the same system\partition into the same 
ASP, though most of those errors could be quite innocuous, and other 
messages might suggest difficulties the actual restore-for-recovery 
might exhibit:

      DLTLIB LIB(JAMESADP) /* Destructive! CPF2110 expected */

      DLTLIB LIB(JAMESAVP) /* Destructive! CPF2110 expected */

      RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA ) RSTLIB(JAMESADP)
       DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SV_ADPDATA)
       OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
       OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
       SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
       RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
       DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
       OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)

      RSTLIB SAVLIB( AVPZIP ) RSTLIB(JAMESAVP)
       DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SV_AVPZIP)
       OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
       OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
       SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
       RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
       DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
       OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)

   Note: Effectively, the sole change to the above RSTLIB commands was 
the addition of the RSTLIB() parameter\specification to cause the 
restored library to a new\alternate library name.

   The next step, after such a test [and after review of errors in the 
test] would be to cleanup the effects from that test-case; best to 
review the spooled QPJOBLOG for any "Escape" messages since\after the 
first DLTLIB, as there should be none -- for which several additions are 
made to what otherwise would be the simplest of scripts with *just* the 
two Delete Library (DLTLIB) requests:

      CHGJOB LOG(4 0 *SECLVL)

      OVRPRTF QPJOBLOG SPOOL(*YES) HOLD(*YES) OVRSCOPE(*JOB)

      DLTLIB LIB(JAMESADP) /* Destructive! CPC2194 expected */

      DLTLIB LIB(JAMESAVP) /* Destructive! CPC2194 expected */

      DSPJOBLOG OUTPUT(*PRINT)

      DLTOVR  QPJOBLOG LVL(*JOB)

      DSPSPLF QPJOBLOG SPLNBR(*LAST)

   P.S. The authority to effect the Save Library (SAVLIB) work requires 
only that the user profile has the Special Authority (SPCAUT) of 
*SAVSYSJ; i.e. the output from the request to "DSPUSRPRF 
Your_User_Profile_Name" should show the token "*SAVSYS" as the one, or 
one of, the "Special Authority" attribute(s).

   P.P.S. The authority to effect the Restore Library (RSTLIB) work may 
require additionally, the "*ALLOBJ" special authority; i.e. some errors 
logged during restore may indicate that, although the restore was able 
to complete, some object-attributes changed during restore might have 
rendered the application unusable -- and some system value settings may 
have a similar effect, irrespective the [special] authorities of the 
user performing the restore.

-- 
Regards, Chuck

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 11:27:22 AM UTC-4, CRPence wrote:
> On 22-Sep-2016 06:43 -0600, James K wrote:
> > On 22-Sep-2016 06:17 -0600, Buck wrote:
> >> On Monday, 19-Sep-2016 at 09:39:49 UTC-4, James2000k wrote:
> >>> [=E2=80=A6] I also want to know the steps to restore these files at a
> >>> later time.
> >> Chuck described RSTLIB that will be a good basis for your script.
> >> Again, you will need authority to delete and restore those
> >> libraries -- this might be different to the authority needed to
> >> save them!  Test your ability to restore by restoring to a new
> >> library... RSTLIB(JAMESADP) or something like that.  Again, you
> >> will need exclusive access to the libraries.
> >> [=E2=80=A6]
> >>
> > [=E2=80=A6]
> > As for checking my authority to RSTLIB are you saying create a
> > library then delete it then run this RSTLIB command?
> > [=E2=80=A6]
>=20
>    Following the same "backup" instructions from=20
> [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.ibm.as400.misc/uXoge9etT1w/HuWS=
FCJFBAAJ],=20
> the following scripted actions could be performed instead of the=20
> "recovery phase".  These actions could serve as an effective=20
> test-script, with regard to the authority to effect the actions, but=20
> would not be a generally-valid test for the other effects of the=20
> restore; potentially, numerous /errors/ may be seen in such restores to=
=20
> an alternate library name onto the same system\partition into the same=20
> ASP, though most of those errors could be quite innocuous, and other=20
> messages might suggest difficulties the actual restore-for-recovery=20
> might exhibit:
>=20
>       DLTLIB LIB(JAMESADP) /* Destructive! CPF2110 expected */
>=20
>       DLTLIB LIB(JAMESAVP) /* Destructive! CPF2110 expected */
>=20
>       RSTLIB SAVLIB(ADPDATA ) RSTLIB(JAMESADP)
>        DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SV_ADPDATA)
>        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
>        OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
>        SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
>        RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
>        DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
>        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
>=20
>       RSTLIB SAVLIB( AVPZIP ) RSTLIB(JAMESAVP)
>        DEV(*SAVF) SAVF(QGPL/SV_AVPZIP)
>        OMITLIB(*NONE) OMITOBJ((*NONE))
>        OPTION(*ALL) MBROPT(*ALL)
>        SPLFDTA(*NEW) PVTAUT(*YES)
>        RSTLIB(*SAVLIB) RSTASPDEV(*SAVASPDEV) RSTASP(*SAVASP)
>        DFRID(*DFT) ALWOBJDIF(*NONE)
>        OUTPUT(*PRINT) INFTYPE(*OBJ)
>=20
>    Note: Effectively, the sole change to the above RSTLIB commands was=20
> the addition of the RSTLIB() parameter\specification to cause the=20
> restored library to a new\alternate library name.
>=20
>    The next step, after such a test [and after review of errors in the=20
> test] would be to cleanup the effects from that test-case; best to=20
> review the spooled QPJOBLOG for any "Escape" messages since\after the=20
> first DLTLIB, as there should be none -- for which several additions are=
=20
> made to what otherwise would be the simplest of scripts with *just* the=
=20
> two Delete Library (DLTLIB) requests:
>=20
>       CHGJOB LOG(4 0 *SECLVL)
>=20
>       OVRPRTF QPJOBLOG SPOOL(*YES) HOLD(*YES) OVRSCOPE(*JOB)
>=20
>       DLTLIB LIB(JAMESADP) /* Destructive! CPC2194 expected */
>=20
>       DLTLIB LIB(JAMESAVP) /* Destructive! CPC2194 expected */
>=20
>       DSPJOBLOG OUTPUT(*PRINT)
>=20
>       DLTOVR  QPJOBLOG LVL(*JOB)
>=20
>       DSPSPLF QPJOBLOG SPLNBR(*LAST)
>=20
>    P.S. The authority to effect the Save Library (SAVLIB) work requires=
=20
> only that the user profile has the Special Authority (SPCAUT) of=20
> *SAVSYSJ; i.e. the output from the request to "DSPUSRPRF=20
> Your_User_Profile_Name" should show the token "*SAVSYS" as the one, or=20
> one of, the "Special Authority" attribute(s).
>=20
>    P.P.S. The authority to effect the Restore Library (RSTLIB) work may=
=20
> require additionally, the "*ALLOBJ" special authority; i.e. some errors=
=20
> logged during restore may indicate that, although the restore was able=20
> to complete, some object-attributes changed during restore might have=20
> rendered the application unusable -- and some system value settings may=
=20
> have a similar effect, irrespective the [special] authorities of the=20
> user performing the restore.
>=20
> --=20
> Regards, Chuck

I am able to log into system as QSECOFR

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 7:43:05 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> Thank's Buck, I appreciate you seeing that I am not a pro on this machine=
 and I was sought of thrown into this. However, I will make the best of it.=
 So just recapping what you said and you stated that the vendor has to give=
 a prerequisite list of what needs to be done to the system before the upda=
te? If I ask them for this will they know what I am requesting from them an=
d if not how do I reply in detail what I need from them?

You ought to have a 'to-do' list from the vendor.  That list would describe=
 the state the system needs to be in before the update (something like IBM =
i ver 7.1, cume C5310710, PTF SF58100 applied) as well as a list of steps t=
o perform the update.  Most vendors will describe the libraries which will =
be affected - this list is where your pair of libraries should have come fr=
om.
=20
> As for checking my authority to RSTLIB are you saying create a library th=
en delete it then run this RSTLIB command?

Chuck beat me to it, but no, I was suggesting that you could save these lib=
raries and then restore them back to the same system under other names.
=20
> I really need a plan how to tackle this update.

Someone should have already supplied you with that plan.  How did you find =
out what libraries you need to save?  Someone must have got this process st=
arted...
  --buck

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 12:21:20 PM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 7:43:05 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > Thank's Buck, I appreciate you seeing that I am not a pro on this machi=
ne and I was sought of thrown into this. However, I will make the best of i=
t. So just recapping what you said and you stated that the vendor has to gi=
ve a prerequisite list of what needs to be done to the system before the up=
date? If I ask them for this will they know what I am requesting from them =
and if not how do I reply in detail what I need from them?
>=20
> You ought to have a 'to-do' list from the vendor.  That list would descri=
be the state the system needs to be in before the update (something like IB=
M i ver 7.1, cume C5310710, PTF SF58100 applied) as well as a list of steps=
 to perform the update.  Most vendors will describe the libraries which wil=
l be affected - this list is where your pair of libraries should have come =
from.
> =20
> > As for checking my authority to RSTLIB are you saying create a library =
then delete it then run this RSTLIB command?
>=20
> Chuck beat me to it, but no, I was suggesting that you could save these l=
ibraries and then restore them back to the same system under other names.
> =20
> > I really need a plan how to tackle this update.
>=20
> Someone should have already supplied you with that plan.  How did you fin=
d out what libraries you need to save?  Someone must have got this process =
started...
>   --buck

Chuck you are saying save the libraries and then restore them back to the s=
ame system under other names?  If so how would you go about doing that? bec=
ause that might come in handy on an option of what can be done.

As for now i basically need to with a game plan. So let's say the vendor is=
 telling you guys for example that they want you to back up those two libra=
ries but it is unclear what impact it will have on your system when they up=
date the libraries. What would you say to the vendor?

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 2:46:34 PM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 12:21:20 PM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 7:43:05 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > > Thank's Buck, I appreciate you seeing that I am not a pro on this mac=
hine and I was sought of thrown into this. However, I will make the best of=
 it. So just recapping what you said and you stated that the vendor has to =
give a prerequisite list of what needs to be done to the system before the =
update? If I ask them for this will they know what I am requesting from the=
m and if not how do I reply in detail what I need from them?
> >=20
> > You ought to have a 'to-do' list from the vendor.  That list would desc=
ribe the state the system needs to be in before the update (something like =
IBM i ver 7.1, cume C5310710, PTF SF58100 applied) as well as a list of ste=
ps to perform the update.  Most vendors will describe the libraries which w=
ill be affected - this list is where your pair of libraries should have com=
e from.
> > =20
> > > As for checking my authority to RSTLIB are you saying create a librar=
y then delete it then run this RSTLIB command?
> >=20
> > Chuck beat me to it, but no, I was suggesting that you could save these=
 libraries and then restore them back to the same system under other names.
> > =20
> > > I really need a plan how to tackle this update.
> >=20
> > Someone should have already supplied you with that plan.  How did you f=
ind out what libraries you need to save?  Someone must have got this proces=
s started...
> >   --buck
>=20
> Chuck you are saying save the libraries and then restore them back to the=
 same system under other names?  If so how would you go about doing that? b=
ecause that might come in handy on an option of what can be done.
>=20
> As for now i basically need to with a game plan. So let's say the vendor =
is telling you guys for example that they want you to back up those two lib=
raries but it is unclear what impact it will have on your system when they =
update the libraries. What would you say to the vendor?

Also, would you request the vendor assist with the backing up and recovery =
of the libraries they want you to backup?

On 22-Sep-2016 13:46 -0600, James K wrote:
> Chuck you are saying save the libraries and then restore them back
> to the same system under other names? If so how would you go about
> doing that? because that might come in handy on an option of what can
> be done.

   Indeed I am suggesting [per Buck's proposal] how the backed-up 
libraries can be restored, to effect a limited test.  A test that was 
noted however, to be mostly about testing the authority to complete the 
restore, albeit possibly also able to reveal other issues like 
cross-library dependencies with object(s) in the library; that was 
offered in the message:
[https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.ibm.as400.misc/uXoge9etT1w/dswYzssOAAAJ]

   Of course with another followup reply alluding the user QSECOFR would 
be used, the value of the test for authority should be invalidated; i.e. 
only *other* possible issues with the restore might be discovered using 
that script to test the restore.  And per restore to another name vs the 
original name, such a test is not a valid [though limited effect] 
Disaster Recovery (DR) scenario, of which a product-reset to be 
performed after a failed upgrade would /need/ to mimic; such reversion 
of software [though mostly data] is atypically able to be achieved 
without an effect /scratch-restore/ of all of the components [data and 
code] of the feature, in a manner that mimics a DR for the objects of 
the product.

>
> As for now, I basically need to [ed: come up] with a game plan. So
> let's say the vendor is telling you guys for example that they want
> you to back up those two libraries but it is unclear what impact it
> will have on your system when they update the libraries. What would
> you say to the vendor?
>> Also, would you request the vendor assist with the backing up and
>> recovery of the libraries they want you to backup?

   Personally, both as an experienced user and as a service provider, I 
would deem such assistance as /usage/ vs /defect/.  As the latter, I 
would expect to offer such support only with an additional contract or 
under an original contract that includes such a level of non-defect 
support.  As the former, I know that I can make a full system backup and 
be prepared for a full system reversion if necessary; not ideal, but I 
expect that the sfw vendor has already had successful upgrades with what 
they have given me, so I would not be overly concerned that a 
scratch-install back to pre-update would be required, as I would expect 
more likely I would pursue fixing whatever problem(s) were encountered 
to move forward, rather than defaulting to trying to back-out and 
further delay the inevitable future attempt to move forward.

   But I suppose as a[n inexperienced] user, *if* the docs [esp. the 
docs �for what is an apparent upgrade?] for the software product had 
included insufficient details about what constitutes /the product/, thus 
lacking explicit mention of what needs to be backed-up to enable a 
recovery of their software outside of normal B&R [e.g. as specifically 
might be appropriate action for taking a backup before an upgrade, in 
the unfortunate and hopefully unlikely even that the upgrade does not go 
smoothly or the updated software is no longer usable\functional], *then* 
I might push for support as defect under the auspices of their offered 
docs, per my suggesting that their docs were deficient.  If their docs 
mention only those two libraries, then I might expect that standard 
Backup&Recovery processes should be sufficient to prepare for the 
upgrade; although possibly still worry that there may be more that must 
be saved for backup and restored for a proper reset, just because I 
/know/ from experience that docs often overlook\gloss-over much more 
than the actual code does.

-- 
Regards, Chuck

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 2:46:34 PM UTC-4, James K wrote:

> As for now i basically need to with a game plan.=20

I have almost 40 years in midrange computing.  If all I had to go on is wha=
t you've shared, I would be very uncomfortable.  I can't imagine how you fe=
el.  Seriously, if your boss can't give you clear instructions, call the ve=
ndor and see what help (if any) they can offer you regarding the upgrade.

I'd be looking for a 'What's New' document, and a 'How to upgrade' document=
..  These may be on their web site.
  --buck

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 5:49:40 PM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 2:46:34 PM UTC-4, James K wrote:
>=20
> > As for now i basically need to with a game plan.=20
>=20
> I have almost 40 years in midrange computing.  If all I had to go on is w=
hat you've shared, I would be very uncomfortable.  I can't imagine how you =
feel.  Seriously, if your boss can't give you clear instructions, call the =
vendor and see what help (if any) they can offer you regarding the upgrade.
>=20
> I'd be looking for a 'What's New' document, and a 'How to upgrade' docume=
nt.  These may be on their website.
>   --buck

I agree with both of you although Chucks's explanation may take a little mo=
re time to mentally digest.  I am asking questions now about the backups at=
 my company and asked if the system is backed up in addition to those libra=
ries I am backing up.

My question to you guys is have you ever heard of this mainframe being back=
ed up to a cloud and if so can a full system recovery be performed from a c=
loud?

On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 8:11:19 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> My question to you guys is have you ever heard of this mainframe being ba=
cked up to a cloud and if so can a full system recovery be performed from a=
 cloud?

Give Pete Massiello a call http://www.itechsol.com/solutions/
I don't do cloud backup, but I am a happy customer of other services they o=
ffer.

There are other vendors who offer cloud backup / restore services as well, =
but I don't have a list handy.  I do have one suggestion though.  Don't ref=
er to IBM i as a mainframe with a vendor.  If a vendor hears you say 'mainf=
rame', they (reasonably enough) assume that you have a mainframe shop's bud=
get -- a very large budget -- and will, ahem, adjust their pricing accordin=
g to what they expect you are therefore willing to pay.
  --buck

On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 2:54:13 PM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 8:11:19 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > My question to you guys is have you ever heard of this mainframe being =
backed up to a cloud and if so can a full system recovery be performed from=
 a cloud?
>=20
> Give Pete Massiello a call http://www.itechsol.com/solutions/
> I don't do cloud backup, but I am a happy customer of other services they=
 offer.
>=20
> There are other vendors who offer cloud backup / restore services as well=
, but I don't have a list handy.  I do have one suggestion though.  Don't r=
efer to IBM i as a mainframe with a vendor.  If a vendor hears you say 'mai=
nframe', they (reasonably enough) assume that you have a mainframe shop's b=
udget -- a very large budget -- and will, ahem, adjust their pricing accord=
ing to what they expect you are therefore willing to pay.
>   --buck

Ok that's true ..i guess we have to call it midrange=20

Out of curiosity if you don't do a full system backup and had to select the=
 main libraries to back up than which ones would they be.

On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:22:26 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> Out of curiosity if you don't do a full system backup and had to select t=
he main libraries to back up than which ones would they be.

I had a boss who asked me a similar question years ago.  His motivation the=
n was a combination of saving tapes and time; the system needed to have all=
 users kicked off in order to save all the libraries at the same checkpoint=
..  This was before save-while-active was available.  My response was to ask=
 him to choose which of his hands and feet he'd like to keep in case of a c=
ar accident.  Choose them now, because once the accident happens, it's too =
late to go back and protect the ones you want to keep.

That's overly dramatic perhaps, but it's a good place to start the discussi=
on.  The general line of thought goes like this:=20
If a library has no purpose, why is it on your system?
If a library is archival data, and never changes, then save a copy to tape =
and you don't need to back that library up daily.
If a library changes daily, it should be saved daily.
Unless.
Unless it's a program library, and a handful of source members and program =
objects change out of thousands of objects in the library.  If that's the c=
ase, then you can consider saving only changed objects.
The system libraries should be saved after PTFs are applied.

The more complicated you make your save scenarios, the more complicated you=
 make your restore scenarios.  You will need very good documentation - docu=
mentation that only you can make, after all it's your system! - documenting=
 what is saved, when, where the tapes are kept, and how to restore the vari=
ous pieces.  Order of operations is crucial.

This monologue is intended to give you a little vocabulary, start a little =
thought, and most importantly, direct you to the Backup & Recovery manual a=
t the Knowledge Center.  Don't cobble together some weird 'save this, save =
that, whatever' methodology.  My predecessor claimed to have perfect backup=
s, so I told him that we'd test it by pulling the disks out of the rack, sw=
apping them all around and reloading the system from bare metal.

It turned out he really wasn't that confident.  And rightly so, as there ar=
e components of the system and applications which don't reside in a library=
..  Some things live in the IFS, some live deep in system storage, dealt wit=
h via PTF.

You'll know your backup strategy is god if you can rent a machine for a day=
 and restore your system to that machine from your backups. =20

Don't improvise.

Read the book.
  --buck

On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 8:41:07 AM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:22:26 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > Out of curiosity if you don't do a full system backup and had to select=
 the main libraries to back up than which ones would they be.
>=20
> I had a boss who asked me a similar question years ago.  His motivation t=
hen was a combination of saving tapes and time; the system needed to have a=
ll users kicked off in order to save all the libraries at the same checkpoi=
nt.  This was before save-while-active was available.  My response was to a=
sk him to choose which of his hands and feet he'd like to keep in case of a=
 car accident.  Choose them now, because once the accident happens, it's to=
o late to go back and protect the ones you want to keep.
>=20
> That's overly dramatic perhaps, but it's a good place to start the discus=
sion.  The general line of thought goes like this:=20
> If a library has no purpose, why is it on your system?
> If a library is archival data, and never changes, then save a copy to tap=
e and you don't need to back that library up daily.
> If a library changes daily, it should be saved daily.
> Unless.
> Unless it's a program library, and a handful of source members and progra=
m objects change out of thousands of objects in the library.  If that's the=
 case, then you can consider saving only changed objects.
> The system libraries should be saved after PTFs are applied.
>=20
> The more complicated you make your save scenarios, the more complicated y=
ou make your restore scenarios.  You will need very good documentation - do=
cumentation that only you can make, after all it's your system! - documenti=
ng what is saved, when, where the tapes are kept, and how to restore the va=
rious pieces.  Order of operations is crucial.
>=20
> This monologue is intended to give you a little vocabulary, start a littl=
e thought, and most importantly, direct you to the Backup & Recovery manual=
 at the Knowledge Center.  Don't cobble together some weird 'save this, sav=
e that, whatever' methodology.  My predecessor claimed to have perfect back=
ups, so I told him that we'd test it by pulling the disks out of the rack, =
swapping them all around and reloading the system from bare metal.
>=20
> It turned out he really wasn't that confident.  And rightly so, as there =
are components of the system and applications which don't reside in a libra=
ry.  Some things live in the IFS, some live deep in system storage, dealt w=
ith via PTF.
>=20
> You'll know your backup strategy is god if you can rent a machine for a d=
ay and restore your system to that machine from your backups. =20
>=20
> Don't improvise.
>=20
> Read the book.
>   --buck

I agree and didn't really expect you to agree with the ennie meenie miney m=
oe concept and I in the end pushed you to give me the gritty truth of why i=
 shouldnt go that route. So thank you

On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 9:20:08 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 8:41:07 AM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> > On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:22:26 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > > Out of curiosity if you don't do a full system backup and had to sele=
ct the main libraries to back up than which ones would they be.
> >=20
> > I had a boss who asked me a similar question years ago.  His motivation=
 then was a combination of saving tapes and time; the system needed to have=
 all users kicked off in order to save all the libraries at the same checkp=
oint.  This was before save-while-active was available.  My response was to=
 ask him to choose which of his hands and feet he'd like to keep in case of=
 a car accident.  Choose them now, because once the accident happens, it's =
too late to go back and protect the ones you want to keep.
> >=20
> > That's overly dramatic perhaps, but it's a good place to start the disc=
ussion.  The general line of thought goes like this:=20
> > If a library has no purpose, why is it on your system?
> > If a library is archival data, and never changes, then save a copy to t=
ape and you don't need to back that library up daily.
> > If a library changes daily, it should be saved daily.
> > Unless.
> > Unless it's a program library, and a handful of source members and prog=
ram objects change out of thousands of objects in the library.  If that's t=
he case, then you can consider saving only changed objects.
> > The system libraries should be saved after PTFs are applied.
> >=20
> > The more complicated you make your save scenarios, the more complicated=
 you make your restore scenarios.  You will need very good documentation - =
documentation that only you can make, after all it's your system! - documen=
ting what is saved, when, where the tapes are kept, and how to restore the =
various pieces.  Order of operations is crucial.
> >=20
> > This monologue is intended to give you a little vocabulary, start a lit=
tle thought, and most importantly, direct you to the Backup & Recovery manu=
al at the Knowledge Center.  Don't cobble together some weird 'save this, s=
ave that, whatever' methodology.  My predecessor claimed to have perfect ba=
ckups, so I told him that we'd test it by pulling the disks out of the rack=
, swapping them all around and reloading the system from bare metal.
> >=20
> > It turned out he really wasn't that confident.  And rightly so, as ther=
e are components of the system and applications which don't reside in a lib=
rary.  Some things live in the IFS, some live deep in system storage, dealt=
 with via PTF.
> >=20
> > You'll know your backup strategy is god if you can rent a machine for a=
 day and restore your system to that machine from your backups. =20
> >=20
> > Don't improvise.
> >=20
> > Read the book.
> >   --buck
>=20
> I agree and didn't really expect you to agree with the ennie meenie miney=
 moe concept and I in the end pushed you to give me the gritty truth of why=
 i shouldnt go that route. So thank you

---

I do want to know what commands are typed to restore from backup?

On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 19:36:00 UTC+1, James K  wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 9:20:08 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 8:41:07 AM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> > > On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:22:26 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > > > Out of curiosity if you don't do a full system backup and had to se=
lect the main libraries to back up than which ones would they be.
> > >=20
> > > I had a boss who asked me a similar question years ago.  His motivati=
on then was a combination of saving tapes and time; the system needed to ha=
ve all users kicked off in order to save all the libraries at the same chec=
kpoint.  This was before save-while-active was available.  My response was =
to ask him to choose which of his hands and feet he'd like to keep in case =
of a car accident.  Choose them now, because once the accident happens, it'=
s too late to go back and protect the ones you want to keep.
> > >=20
> > > That's overly dramatic perhaps, but it's a good place to start the di=
scussion.  The general line of thought goes like this:=20
> > > If a library has no purpose, why is it on your system?
> > > If a library is archival data, and never changes, then save a copy to=
 tape and you don't need to back that library up daily.
> > > If a library changes daily, it should be saved daily.
> > > Unless.
> > > Unless it's a program library, and a handful of source members and pr=
ogram objects change out of thousands of objects in the library.  If that's=
 the case, then you can consider saving only changed objects.
> > > The system libraries should be saved after PTFs are applied.
> > >=20
> > > The more complicated you make your save scenarios, the more complicat=
ed you make your restore scenarios.  You will need very good documentation =
- documentation that only you can make, after all it's your system! - docum=
enting what is saved, when, where the tapes are kept, and how to restore th=
e various pieces.  Order of operations is crucial.
> > >=20
> > > This monologue is intended to give you a little vocabulary, start a l=
ittle thought, and most importantly, direct you to the Backup & Recovery ma=
nual at the Knowledge Center.  Don't cobble together some weird 'save this,=
 save that, whatever' methodology.  My predecessor claimed to have perfect =
backups, so I told him that we'd test it by pulling the disks out of the ra=
ck, swapping them all around and reloading the system from bare metal.
> > >=20
> > > It turned out he really wasn't that confident.  And rightly so, as th=
ere are components of the system and applications which don't reside in a l=
ibrary.  Some things live in the IFS, some live deep in system storage, dea=
lt with via PTF.
> > >=20
> > > You'll know your backup strategy is god if you can rent a machine for=
 a day and restore your system to that machine from your backups. =20
> > >=20
> > > Don't improvise.
> > >=20
> > > Read the book.
> > >   --buck
> >=20
> > I agree and didn't really expect you to agree with the ennie meenie min=
ey moe concept and I in the end pushed you to give me the gritty truth of w=
hy i shouldnt go that route. So thank you
>=20
> ---
>=20
> I do want to know what commands are typed to restore from backup?

There is already a reply from the 20th with the RSTLIB command. You will wa=
nt to experiment with the RSTLIB(xxx) keyword to avoid overwriting the live=
 library with your test restore i.e. add RSTLIB(xxx) to the end of the comm=
and provided before pressing F4. Also see the RSTOBJ command, which can pul=
l individual items from the same save data. Again specify RSTLIB(xxx).

Try keying sav* and pressing enter, or rst* & pressing enter.
Then enter 1 against anything which takes your fancy. Once you have the com=
mand prompted press F9 to see all the options - you might see why people he=
re cant give definitive answers in less than 100 words.
You don't need to restrict yourself to 3 letters try d* & experience a whol=
e world of delete & display commands along with a few others.

HTH
Jonathan

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 8:03:50 AM UTC-4, Jonathan Bailey wrote:
> On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 19:36:00 UTC+1, James K  wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 9:20:08 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 8:41:07 AM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> > > > On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:22:26 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > > > > Out of curiosity if you don't do a full system backup and had to =
select the main libraries to back up than which ones would they be.
> > > >=20
> > > > I had a boss who asked me a similar question years ago.  His motiva=
tion then was a combination of saving tapes and time; the system needed to =
have all users kicked off in order to save all the libraries at the same ch=
eckpoint.  This was before save-while-active was available.  My response wa=
s to ask him to choose which of his hands and feet he'd like to keep in cas=
e of a car accident.  Choose them now, because once the accident happens, i=
t's too late to go back and protect the ones you want to keep.
> > > >=20
> > > > That's overly dramatic perhaps, but it's a good place to start the =
discussion.  The general line of thought goes like this:=20
> > > > If a library has no purpose, why is it on your system?
> > > > If a library is archival data, and never changes, then save a copy =
to tape and you don't need to back that library up daily.
> > > > If a library changes daily, it should be saved daily.
> > > > Unless.
> > > > Unless it's a program library, and a handful of source members and =
program objects change out of thousands of objects in the library.  If that=
's the case, then you can consider saving only changed objects.
> > > > The system libraries should be saved after PTFs are applied.
> > > >=20
> > > > The more complicated you make your save scenarios, the more complic=
ated you make your restore scenarios.  You will need very good documentatio=
n - documentation that only you can make, after all it's your system! - doc=
umenting what is saved, when, where the tapes are kept, and how to restore =
the various pieces.  Order of operations is crucial.
> > > >=20
> > > > This monologue is intended to give you a little vocabulary, start a=
 little thought, and most importantly, direct you to the Backup & Recovery =
manual at the Knowledge Center.  Don't cobble together some weird 'save thi=
s, save that, whatever' methodology.  My predecessor claimed to have perfec=
t backups, so I told him that we'd test it by pulling the disks out of the =
rack, swapping them all around and reloading the system from bare metal.
> > > >=20
> > > > It turned out he really wasn't that confident.  And rightly so, as =
there are components of the system and applications which don't reside in a=
 library.  Some things live in the IFS, some live deep in system storage, d=
ealt with via PTF.
> > > >=20
> > > > You'll know your backup strategy is god if you can rent a machine f=
or a day and restore your system to that machine from your backups. =20
> > > >=20
> > > > Don't improvise.
> > > >=20
> > > > Read the book.
> > > >   --buck
> > >=20
> > > I agree and didn't really expect you to agree with the ennie meenie m=
iney moe concept and I in the end pushed you to give me the gritty truth of=
 why i shouldnt go that route. So thank you
> >=20
> > ---
> >=20
> > I do want to know what commands are typed to restore from backup?
>=20
> There is already a reply from the 20th with the RSTLIB command. You will =
want to experiment with the RSTLIB(xxx) keyword to avoid overwriting the li=
ve library with your test restore i.e. add RSTLIB(xxx) to the end of the co=
mmand provided before pressing F4. Also see the RSTOBJ command, which can p=
ull individual items from the same save data. Again specify RSTLIB(xxx).
>=20
> Try keying sav* and pressing enter, or rst* & pressing enter.
> Then enter 1 against anything which takes your fancy. Once you have the c=
ommand prompted press F9 to see all the options - you might see why people =
here cant give definitive answers in less than 100 words.
> You don't need to restrict yourself to 3 letters try d* & experience a wh=
ole world of delete & display commands along with a few others.
>=20
> HTH
> Jonathan

Ok thanks Jonathan

Out of curiousity what kind of programmer or what code is used on these mid=
range devices so you can create these programs and run batches etc

On 29-Sep-2016 09:51 -0500, James K wrote:
> <<SNIP>> what code is used on these midrange devices so you can
> create these programs and run batches etc

   With the IBM i OS running on an IBM Power server [the so-called 
midrange], there is a Control Language (CL) for which objects of the 
type Command (*CMD) serve as the syntax for each CL *statement* within a 
CL program.  An effective script of such statements [including the 
ability to code variables plus logical flow such as loops and error 
handling] can be compiled as an executable object; e.g. see the Create 
CL Program (CRTCLPGM) command. The CL Program source begins with the 
non-executable command PGM, and ends with the non-executable command ENDPGM:

     PGM
      /* CL statements go here; a line-continuation char is +
         required to indicate a flow onto the next line      */
     ENDPGM

   Alternatively a script of commands can be interpreted; e.g. as occurs 
when they are typed into the Command Entry or any similar Command-Line 
Entry area.  Most commonly the scripted CL commands are a CL /stream 
job/ activated with the BCHJOB command as a control statement preceded 
by two consecutive slash characters and terminated similarly with the 
ENDBCHJOB command:

     //BCHJOB
      /* CL statements go here; a line-continuation char is +
         required to indicate a flow onto the next line      */
     //ENDBCHJOB

-- 
Regards, Chuck

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 2:46:32 PM UTC-4, CRPence wrote:
> On 29-Sep-2016 09:51 -0500, James K wrote:
> > <<SNIP>> what code is used on these midrange devices so you can
> > create these programs and run batches etc
> 
>    With the IBM i OS running on an IBM Power server [the so-called 
> midrange], there is a Control Language (CL) for which objects of the 
> type Command (*CMD) serve as the syntax for each CL *statement* within a 
> CL program.  An effective script of such statements [including the 
> ability to code variables plus logical flow such as loops and error 
> handling] can be compiled as an executable object; e.g. see the Create 
> CL Program (CRTCLPGM) command. The CL Program source begins with the 
> non-executable command PGM, and ends with the non-executable command ENDPGM:
> 
>      PGM
>       /* CL statements go here; a line-continuation char is +
>          required to indicate a flow onto the next line      */
>      ENDPGM
> 
>    Alternatively a script of commands can be interpreted; e.g. as occurs 
> when they are typed into the Command Entry or any similar Command-Line 
> Entry area.  Most commonly the scripted CL commands are a CL /stream 
> job/ activated with the BCHJOB command as a control statement preceded 
> by two consecutive slash characters and terminated similarly with the 
> ENDBCHJOB command:
> 
>      //BCHJOB
>       /* CL statements go here; a line-continuation char is +
>          required to indicate a flow onto the next line      */
>      //ENDBCHJOB
> 
> -- 
> Regards, Chuck

Any of you guys on tonight

On 05-Oct-2016 17:35 -0500, James K wrote:
> Any of you guys on tonight

   Have been, but just now noticed the post; I do not use a feed.  I 
just check for messages when I feel like it.  Probably better to have 
just posted whatever was the question, such that this reply might have 
been all that was needed.

-- 
Regards, Chuck

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 8:53:06 PM UTC-4, CRPence wrote:
> On 05-Oct-2016 17:35 -0500, James K wrote:
> > Any of you guys on tonight
> 
>    Have been, but just now noticed the post; I do not use a feed.  I 
> just check for messages when I feel like it.  Probably better to have 
> just posted whatever was the question, such that this reply might have 
> been all that was needed.
> 
> -- 
> Regards, Chuck

Well guys..I performed the update and it went ok

There was a few issues with few files in reference to buffer lengths but the update was successful 

Now i need to know what CL to study and how to start to Master this box because 
i do not like being in dark with that type of machine

On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 10:10:23 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> Now i need to know what CL to study and how to start to Master this box because 
> i do not like being in dark with that type of machine

You might want to start a new thread so that future searchers will be able to learn how you began your education.  They probably won't look in a post about saving libraries :-)

In your new thread, share with us what your role is / will be.  
Operator?
System admin?
Programmer?
Part time / full time?

Once again, I would encourage you to use and bookmark the IBM Knowledge Center https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/ssw_ibm_i  That's where most of the documentation for the system will be founf.
  --buck

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 10:10:23 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > Now i need to know what CL to study and how to start to Master this box because 
> > i do not like being in dark with that type of machine
> 
> You might want to start a new thread so that future searchers will be able to learn how you began your education.  They probably won't look in a post about saving libraries :-)
> 
> In your new thread, share with us what your role is / will be.  
> Operator?
> System admin?
> Programmer?
> Part time / full time?
> 
> Once again, I would encourage you to use and bookmark the IBM Knowledge Center https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/ssw_ibm_i  That's where most of the documentation for the system will be founf.
>   --buck

Newbie with drive to become the best 

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 10:10:23 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > Now i need to know what CL to study and how to start to Master this box because 
> > i do not like being in dark with that type of machine
> 
> You might want to start a new thread so that future searchers will be able to learn how you began your education.  They probably won't look in a post about saving libraries :-)
> 
> In your new thread, share with us what your role is / will be.  
> Operator?
> System admin?
> Programmer?
> Part time / full time?
> 
> Once again, I would encourage you to use and bookmark the IBM Knowledge Center https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/ssw_ibm_i  That's where most of the documentation for the system will be founf.
>   --buck
but if we must choose i would say Operator/Administrator and i want to get into the basics of CL language 

On Monday, October 10, 2016 at 3:53:36 PM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-4, Buck wrote:
> > On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 10:10:23 AM UTC-4, James K wrote:
> > > Now i need to know what CL to study and how to start to Master this box because 
> > > i do not like being in dark with that type of machine
> > 
> > You might want to start a new thread so that future searchers will be able to learn how you began your education.  They probably won't look in a post about saving libraries :-)
> > 
> > In your new thread, share with us what your role is / will be.  
> > Operator?
> > System admin?
> > Programmer?
> > Part time / full time?
> > 
> > Once again, I would encourage you to use and bookmark the IBM Knowledge Center https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/ssw_ibm_i  That's where most of the documentation for the system will be founf.
> >   --buck
> but if we must choose i would say Operator/Administrator and i want to get into the basics of CL language


I ran the command GO LICPGM, select option 10, and press F11 to view release info and it shows V7R1M0 L00