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Is the group dead?

Haven't seen any post for a while.... 


0
Pupkov
8/14/2008 6:32:26 PM
comp.sys.ibm.pc.classic 405 articles. 0 followers. Ruud.Baltissen592 (59) is leader. Post Follow

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Pupkov wrote:
> Haven't seen any post for a while.... 

I haven't made a lot of progress recently.

-- 
-- Marten Kemp
(Fix name and ISP to reply)
0
Marten
8/14/2008 6:41:19 PM
Pupkov <pozhit@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Haven't seen any post for a while.... 

  Latest post (<news:g7gdor$229$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>) in the "need
a documentation on PC i/o ports, etc" thread was of August 8 (or 7,
depending on your timezone), not bad/long for a group like this.
0
Frank
8/14/2008 7:08:21 PM
On Aug 14, 1:32 pm, "Pupkov" <poz...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Haven't seen any post for a while....

Dead is a state of mind.  If you still like to tinker with classic
PCs, head over to http://www.oldskool.org/pc/ and see if there's
anything new/fun to download.
0
Jim
8/14/2008 10:26:26 PM
"Jim Leonard" <MobyGamer@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:d6554ea5-6340-4cb4-9300-597b9e38d833@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 14, 1:32 pm, "Pupkov" <poz...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>> Haven't seen any post for a while....
>
> Dead is a state of mind.  If you still like to tinker with classic
> PCs, head over to http://www.oldskool.org/pc/ and see if there's
> anything new/fun to download.

Hi!
I am glad that the mind isn't pronounced dead yet.  OK, I think I've made 
further progress.  It looks like the datasheet for the chipset does contain 
a decent description of ports.  For example, here is my chipset: 
http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/datasheet/252516.pdf
If you go to page 356, there is a description of configuration words to be 
sent to a DMA controller.  Earlier I saw a glimpse of this in a very old 
book from '94.  Also, go to page 374, you can see a description of the port 
92h.  Earlier, in the same '94 book there was just a hint.  Moreover, they 
also provide the info about USB registers, etc... I believe that the 
datasheet probably contains EVERYTHING, it is just a matter of time and 
effort.
Although I touched this document on and off for several months already, it 
was not very obvious to me that it actually contained the descriptions I 
needed.  Interestingly, I have a friend who does a lot of programming.  He 
wanted to do a low-level programming for a multiprocessor system.  He looked 
at the CPU documentation and of course his comment was that there was no 
info on multiprocessor programming.  Naturally, after hours of searching and 
staring at the pages we could find it...  Oh well... Usual graphomania of 
manuals... :-)
Alex. 


0
Pupkov
8/15/2008 3:59:20 PM
Pupkov wrote:
> "Jim Leonard" <MobyGamer@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:d6554ea5-6340-4cb4-9300-597b9e38d833@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 14, 1:32 pm, "Pupkov" <poz...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>>> Haven't seen any post for a while....
>> Dead is a state of mind.  If you still like to tinker with classic
>> PCs, head over to http://www.oldskool.org/pc/ and see if there's
>> anything new/fun to download.
> 
> Hi!
> I am glad that the mind isn't pronounced dead yet.  OK, I think I've made 
> further progress.  It looks like the datasheet for the chipset does contain 
> a decent description of ports.  For example, here is my chipset: 
> http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/datasheet/252516.pdf
> If you go to page 356, there is a description of configuration words to be 
> sent to a DMA controller.  Earlier I saw a glimpse of this in a very old 
> book from '94.  Also, go to page 374, you can see a description of the port 
> 92h.  Earlier, in the same '94 book there was just a hint.  Moreover, they 
> also provide the info about USB registers, etc... I believe that the 
> datasheet probably contains EVERYTHING, it is just a matter of time and 
> effort.
> Although I touched this document on and off for several months already, it 
> was not very obvious to me that it actually contained the descriptions I 
> needed.  Interestingly, I have a friend who does a lot of programming.  He 
> wanted to do a low-level programming for a multiprocessor system.  He looked 
> at the CPU documentation and of course his comment was that there was no 
> info on multiprocessor programming.  Naturally, after hours of searching and 
> staring at the pages we could find it...  Oh well... Usual graphomania of 
> manuals... :-)
> Alex. 

Come to think of it, the modern 'chipset' probably contains
bits to perform every function that the original PC's entire
motherboard and standard add-on cards performed.

-- 
-- Marten Kemp
(Fix name and ISP to reply)
0
Marten
8/15/2008 11:43:00 PM
"Marten Kemp" <marten.kemp@thisplanet-link.net> wrote in message 
news:g854a5$749$1@aioe.org...
> Pupkov wrote:
>> "Jim Leonard" <MobyGamer@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>> news:d6554ea5-6340-4cb4-9300-597b9e38d833@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Aug 14, 1:32 pm, "Pupkov" <poz...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>>>> Haven't seen any post for a while....
>>> Dead is a state of mind.  If you still like to tinker with classic
>>> PCs, head over to http://www.oldskool.org/pc/ and see if there's
>>> anything new/fun to download.
>>
>> Hi!
>> I am glad that the mind isn't pronounced dead yet.  OK, I think I've made 
>> further progress.  It looks like the datasheet for the chipset does 
>> contain a decent description of ports.  For example, here is my chipset: 
>> http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/datasheet/252516.pdf
>> If you go to page 356, there is a description of configuration words to 
>> be sent to a DMA controller.  Earlier I saw a glimpse of this in a very 
>> old book from '94.  Also, go to page 374, you can see a description of 
>> the port 92h.  Earlier, in the same '94 book there was just a hint. 
>> Moreover, they also provide the info about USB registers, etc... I 
>> believe that the datasheet probably contains EVERYTHING, it is just a 
>> matter of time and effort.
>> Although I touched this document on and off for several months already, 
>> it was not very obvious to me that it actually contained the descriptions 
>> I needed.  Interestingly, I have a friend who does a lot of programming. 
>> He wanted to do a low-level programming for a multiprocessor system.  He 
>> looked at the CPU documentation and of course his comment was that there 
>> was no info on multiprocessor programming.  Naturally, after hours of 
>> searching and staring at the pages we could find it...  Oh well... Usual 
>> graphomania of manuals... :-)
>> Alex.
>
> Come to think of it, the modern 'chipset' probably contains
> bits to perform every function that the original PC's entire
> motherboard and standard add-on cards performed.
>
> -- 
> -- Marten Kemp
> (Fix name and ISP to reply)

True. Moreover, accessing configuration registers of the chipset is done via 
PCI semantics. In fact, all registers are sitting within one chip and no 
"real" PCI connectors are present. So, it is all sitting in one integrated 
circuit.
Alex.


0
Pupkov
8/18/2008 4:44:05 PM
In news:g8493r$59r$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu Pupkov wrote:

> made further progress.  It looks like the datasheet for the chipset
> does contain a decent description of ports.  For example, here is my
> chipset: http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/datasheet/252516.pdf

Hi Alex, You already found it.
In the meantime I also located an old book from 1990 called
"Writing DOS Device Drivers in C" (ISBN 0-13-970864-2
from Prentice-Hall, INC.)
This also talks about the BIOS interface and the
Hardware Device Interface. It states

The direct control of HW is typically accomplished through one
of two techniques: "programmed I/O" (IN and OUT instructions) *or*
via "memory-mapped I/O" (HW device has to decode specific
memory addresses). If these addresses are present on the address
bus, the HW device will read from and write to the data bus and
the I/O operation is performed.

Thus I think also the BIOS interface is required for handling of
the CPU and HW interrupts and providing of memory-mapping.
See IRQ and I/O addresses; - and what about the chipset-driver?
From the book:
"The architecture of each hardware device is so different that without
the hardware technical manual for the hardware device, it is impossible
to present any further generalizations about their operation".

I think You are already on the right way.
Horst


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0
Horst
8/20/2008 5:50:41 PM
"Horst Franke" <nospam@invalid> wrote in message 
news:g8hlhr$jk0$00$1@news.t-online.com...
> In news:g8493r$59r$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu Pupkov wrote:
>
>> made further progress.  It looks like the datasheet for the chipset
>> does contain a decent description of ports.  For example, here is my
>> chipset: http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/datasheet/252516.pdf
>
> Hi Alex, You already found it.
> In the meantime I also located an old book from 1990 called
> "Writing DOS Device Drivers in C" (ISBN 0-13-970864-2
> from Prentice-Hall, INC.)
> This also talks about the BIOS interface and the
> Hardware Device Interface. It states
>
> The direct control of HW is typically accomplished through one
> of two techniques: "programmed I/O" (IN and OUT instructions) *or*
> via "memory-mapped I/O" (HW device has to decode specific
> memory addresses). If these addresses are present on the address
> bus, the HW device will read from and write to the data bus and
> the I/O operation is performed.
>
> Thus I think also the BIOS interface is required for handling of
> the CPU and HW interrupts and providing of memory-mapping.
> See IRQ and I/O addresses; - and what about the chipset-driver?
> From the book:
> "The architecture of each hardware device is so different that without
> the hardware technical manual for the hardware device, it is impossible
> to present any further generalizations about their operation".
>
> I think You are already on the right way.
> Horst
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Ausgehende Nachricht sauber.
> Virus-Datenbank (VPS): 080820-0, 20.08.2008
> Getestet um: 20.08.2008 19:50:52
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
Hi Horst,
It looks like I can easily do without BIOS, especially because in my case 
the system is running in protected mode right from the beginning.  So far 
the essential ports for me were COM and 92h.  Now I need to figure out how 
to use USB-associated ports.  The chipset datasheet provides their addresses 
and functions, however it does not say how to make USB packets.  It must be 
a standard of some sort.  Working with all other registers like for HDD, 
keyboard, etc is not needed for our system.
Alex. 


0
Pupkov
8/22/2008 10:01:31 PM
In news:g8ncrg$lt8$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu Pupkov wrote:

> It looks like I can easily do without BIOS, especially because in my

Sorry Alex
but there is no way to eliminate BIOS (Basic I/O support)!
Try to unplug the BIOS chip and check what happened!
=> NO FUNCTION!

> case the system is running in protected mode right from the
> beginning.  So far the essential ports for me were COM and 92h.

Sorry, no chance to skip BIOS!
See BIOS as it defines the timings for FSB and RAM bus (timings)!
Without BIOS You have no access to basic HW interface.
It defines per manufacturer the basic interface to onboard devices.

> Now
> I need to figure out how to use USB-associated ports.  The chipset
> datasheet provides their addresses and functions, however it does not
> say how to make USB packets.  It must be a standard of some sort. 
> Working with all other registers like for HDD, keyboard, etc is not
> needed for our system.

What do you mean by USB packets?
I suppose all required info is stated in the ICH5 spec!
My search on USB revealed many many hits!

This is an impact of ONBOARD USB controller (chipset included).
See your referenced Intel ICH5 doc.
It includes USB support and thus should tell the required needs.
For the ICH5 chip it starts on page 58
Just search for USB! There're many many hits!

USB is part of the motherboard - thus ICH5 Specs should tell the details.
You know it - so search for USB.
My search result starts on page 58 and many many more.
That info should help for your needs.

Horst

0
Horst
8/24/2008 12:22:29 AM
"Horst Franke" <nospam@invalid> wrote in message 
news:g8q9l8$lol$01$1@news.t-online.com...
> In news:g8ncrg$lt8$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu Pupkov wrote:
>
>> It looks like I can easily do without BIOS, especially because in my
>
> Sorry Alex
> but there is no way to eliminate BIOS (Basic I/O support)!
> Try to unplug the BIOS chip and check what happened!
> => NO FUNCTION!
>
>> case the system is running in protected mode right from the
>> beginning.  So far the essential ports for me were COM and 92h.
>
> Sorry, no chance to skip BIOS!
> See BIOS as it defines the timings for FSB and RAM bus (timings)!
> Without BIOS You have no access to basic HW interface.
> It defines per manufacturer the basic interface to onboard devices.
>
>> Now
>> I need to figure out how to use USB-associated ports.  The chipset
>> datasheet provides their addresses and functions, however it does not
>> say how to make USB packets.  It must be a standard of some sort. Working 
>> with all other registers like for HDD, keyboard, etc is not
>> needed for our system.
>
> What do you mean by USB packets?
> I suppose all required info is stated in the ICH5 spec!
> My search on USB revealed many many hits!
>
> This is an impact of ONBOARD USB controller (chipset included).
> See your referenced Intel ICH5 doc.
> It includes USB support and thus should tell the required needs.
> For the ICH5 chip it starts on page 58
> Just search for USB! There're many many hits!
>
> USB is part of the motherboard - thus ICH5 Specs should tell the details.
> You know it - so search for USB.
> My search result starts on page 58 and many many more.
> That info should help for your needs.
>
> Horst
>

Hi Horst,
I think I was not clear in my post.  Certainly we need BIOS :-).  I just 
meant that so far I could get away from using any explicit calls to the BIOS 
code.
By USB packets I meant the format of data packages to be transferred between 
devices adhering to the USB standard.  So, besides the chipset, which merely 
indicates which registers to use, I have to figure out how to package my 
data during actual transfer.
Alex. 


0
Pupkov
8/25/2008 1:44:28 PM
In news:g8ucvf$ebl$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu Pupkov wrote:

>>> I need to figure out how to use USB-associated ports.  The chipset
>>> datasheet provides their addresses and functions, however it does
>>> not say how to make USB packets.  It must be a standard of some
>>> sort. Working with all other registers like for HDD, keyboard, etc
>>> is not needed for our system.
>>
>> What do you mean by USB packets?
>> I suppose all required info is stated in the ICH5 spec!
>> My search on USB revealed many many hits!
>>
>> This is an impact of ONBOARD USB controller (chipset included).
>> See your referenced Intel ICH5 doc.
>> It includes USB support and thus should tell the required needs.
>> For the ICH5 chip it starts on page 58
>> Just search for USB! There're many many hits!
>>
>> USB is part of the motherboard - thus ICH5 Specs should tell the
>> details. You know it - so search for USB.
>> My search result starts on page 58 and many many more.
>> That info should help for your needs.

> I think I was not clear in my post.  Certainly we need BIOS :-).  I
> just meant that so far I could get away from using any explicit calls
> to the BIOS code.
> By USB packets I meant the format of data packages to be transferred
> between devices adhering to the USB standard.  So, besides the
> chipset, which merely indicates which registers to use, I have to
> figure out how to package my data during actual transfer.

Sorry Alex, but that should be given in the ICH5 details? Isn't it?
For my ICH6 it is:

Peripherie

LPC Hub Controller 1 : MSI 82801FB/FR (ICH6/ICH6R) LPC Interface Bridge

LPC Hub Controller 2 : MSI 82801FB (ICH6) SMBus Controller

Audio Ger�t : MSI 82801FB (ICH6) AC'97 Audio Controller

Audio Codec : Realtek Semiconductor ??? (0060)

Serielle Port(s) : 2

Parallel-Port(s) : 1

USB Controller 1 : MSI 82801FB (ICH6) USB UHCI Controller 1

USB Controller 2 : MSI 82801FB (ICH6) USB UHCI Controller 2

USB Controller 3 : MSI 82801FB (ICH6) USB UHCI Controller 3

USB Controller 4 : MSI 82801FB (ICH6) USB UHCI Controller 4

USB Controller 5 : MSI 82801FB (ICH6) USB 2.0 EHCI Controller



May be You should search for "828101FB" specifications?

Don't know if these are implemented in the ICH5 Specs?



But nevertheless You need to have the required HW Refs!

If NOT included in ICH5 specs then try a seperate search.

I have no own experience - just talk about 3rd party infos.

Horst



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0
Horst
8/25/2008 8:50:26 PM
Reply: