There is a known problem with Quake 3 engine games
which use the OpenGl method in that ATI Catalyst drivers
will not work particular since Cat 10.5 .

The most suggested fix found on the Net is to replace the file
 atioglxx.dll with a version from Cat 10.4 or earlier.
This atioglxx.dll is in XP & VISTA in ' Windows\System32 '
In Windows 7 its in 'Windows\SysWOW64'
Its the same for 32 & 64 bit versions.
Or to install a pre 10.5 version of the Cat Drivers....(hardly satisfactory)

I've been using this method OK until recently when I found the
latest Catalyst 10.12 still wouldn't work in XP with an older
atioglxx.dll & not well in Win 7.

Much further Net searching yielded the following fix:
The problem occurs at the start up of these games which can not cope
with modern complexities in the ATI OpenGl driver.
By going into the games Folder & making a copy of the main EXE file
then renaming that to QUAKE3.EXE that should now run OK.
The quake3.exe name fools the drivers into using a configuration the engine
can work with.
The using old  'atioglxx.dll' tactic is now not needed. Indeed the lastest 
version
will give better results.

Games affected:
GLQuake
Quake II
Heretic II
Sin 1
Kingpin: Life of Crime
Soldier of Fortune 1
Soldier of Fortune 2
Anachronox
Call of Duty 1 & UO
Return to Castle Wolfenstein Single Player
Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
Medal of Honor Allied Assault & the two expansions
KOTOR (sometimes)
Star Trek Voyager Elite Force
Star Trek Voyager Elite Force 2
Heavy Metal FAKK2
Daikatana
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")  mouse (sooo ! Old) 

On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 01:20:06 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
<no-spam@never.spam> wrote:

>There is a known problem with Quake 3 engine games
>which use the OpenGl method in that ATI Catalyst drivers
>will not work particular since Cat 10.5 .
>
>The most suggested fix found on the Net is to replace the file
> atioglxx.dll with a version from Cat 10.4 or earlier.
>This atioglxx.dll is in XP & VISTA in ' Windows\System32 '
>In Windows 7 its in 'Windows\SysWOW64'
>Its the same for 32 & 64 bit versions.
>Or to install a pre 10.5 version of the Cat Drivers....(hardly satisfactory)
>
>I've been using this method OK until recently when I found the
>latest Catalyst 10.12 still wouldn't work in XP with an older
>atioglxx.dll & not well in Win 7.
>
>Much further Net searching yielded the following fix:
>The problem occurs at the start up of these games which can not cope
>with modern complexities in the ATI OpenGl driver.
>By going into the games Folder & making a copy of the main EXE file
>then renaming that to QUAKE3.EXE that should now run OK.
>The quake3.exe name fools the drivers into using a configuration the engine
>can work with.
>The using old  'atioglxx.dll' tactic is now not needed. Indeed the lastest 
>version
>will give better results.
>
>Games affected:
>GLQuake
>Quake II
>Heretic II
>Sin 1
>Kingpin: Life of Crime
>Soldier of Fortune 1
>Soldier of Fortune 2
>Anachronox
>Call of Duty 1 & UO
>Return to Castle Wolfenstein Single Player
>Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
>Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
>Medal of Honor Allied Assault & the two expansions
>KOTOR (sometimes)
>Star Trek Voyager Elite Force
>Star Trek Voyager Elite Force 2
>Heavy Metal FAKK2
>Daikatana
>(\__/)
>(='.'=)
>(")_(")  mouse (sooo ! Old) 
>
>


>The problem occurs at the start up of these games which can not cope
>with modern complexities in the ATI OpenGl driver.

Huh. What "modern complexities" ?

How  inconvenient, when a comprehensive OpenGL driver fix on ATi's
part would probably have been a 15 minute exercise by one of their
driver team.. ATi's GL support seems to be always late and
half-baked...

Nvidia latest driver 260.99 with a GTX460 on XP32 SP3 has no problem
at all with the DOS/DOSBox/ GL games in my collection that I have had
an opportunity to run with this newer nV hardware and driver (Star
Wars JK 1/II/Outcast,  Kingpin, SOF1, Sin Episodes:Emergence, etc,
etc..).

I have stayed with nV hardware due to the generally excellent
Dx/OpenGL HW and SW backward compatibility in their graphics drivers.
I have a large collection of "classic" PC games that I like to revisit
from time to time and play on my current gaming machine. Russian
Roulette with graphics driver changes, or having to find manual hacks
just to play an older game are not my kind of fun.

John Lewis

Le 05/01/2011 09:14, John Lewis a �crit :
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 01:20:06 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
> <no-spam@never.spam>  wrote:
>
>> There is a known problem with Quake 3 engine games
>> which use the OpenGl method in that ATI Catalyst drivers
>> will not work particular since Cat 10.5 .
>>
>> The most suggested fix found on the Net is to replace the file
>> atioglxx.dll with a version from Cat 10.4 or earlier.
>> This atioglxx.dll is in XP&  VISTA in ' Windows\System32 '
>> In Windows 7 its in 'Windows\SysWOW64'
>> Its the same for 32&  64 bit versions.
>> Or to install a pre 10.5 version of the Cat Drivers....(hardly satisfactory)
>>
>> I've been using this method OK until recently when I found the
>> latest Catalyst 10.12 still wouldn't work in XP with an older
>> atioglxx.dll&  not well in Win 7.
>>
>> Much further Net searching yielded the following fix:
>> The problem occurs at the start up of these games which can not cope
>> with modern complexities in the ATI OpenGl driver.
>> By going into the games Folder&  making a copy of the main EXE file
>> then renaming that to QUAKE3.EXE that should now run OK.
>> The quake3.exe name fools the drivers into using a configuration the engine
>> can work with.
>> The using old  'atioglxx.dll' tactic is now not needed. Indeed the lastest
>> version
>> will give better results.
>>
>> Games affected:
>> GLQuake
>> Quake II
>> Heretic II
>> Sin 1
>> Kingpin: Life of Crime
>> Soldier of Fortune 1
>> Soldier of Fortune 2
>> Anachronox
>> Call of Duty 1&  UO
>> Return to Castle Wolfenstein Single Player
>> Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
>> Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
>> Medal of Honor Allied Assault&  the two expansions
>> KOTOR (sometimes)
>> Star Trek Voyager Elite Force
>> Star Trek Voyager Elite Force 2
>> Heavy Metal FAKK2
>> Daikatana
>> (\__/)
>> (='.'=)
>> (")_(")  mouse (sooo ! Old)
>>
>>
>
>
>> The problem occurs at the start up of these games which can not cope
>> with modern complexities in the ATI OpenGl driver.
>
> Huh. What "modern complexities" ?
>
> How  inconvenient, when a comprehensive OpenGL driver fix on ATi's
> part would probably.....

Translation ... I hate ATI


> Nvidia latest driver 260.99 with a GTX460 on XP32 SP3 has no problem
> at all with the.....

Translation... I love NVidia

Its nice when you've been away a long time to come back and find 
nothings changed.... thanks John.

Trimble Bracegirdle <no-spam@never.spam> wrote:
>Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast

I don't know about any of the other games, but the problem with Jedi
Outcast is that it overruns a buffer when it tries to print out a list
of OpenGL extensions that video card supports.  If you have a hex editor
you can fix the problem by changing the string "GL_EXTENSIONS: %s" to
"GL_EXTENSIONS: %p" in the executable.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 04:20:06 +0300, Trimble Bracegirdle <no-spam@never.spam> wrote:

> There is a known problem with Quake 3 engine games
> which use the OpenGl method in that ATI Catalyst drivers
> will not work particular since Cat 10.5

Is there any reason to update my 10.3 drivers (HD5770 here)?


-- 
Andrew Rybenkov

In the last few months ATI have been making a point about
how they are keeping up with the latest OPENGL features.
Also in Nov. I noticed a ATI Forum person declaring this Quake 3 Engine
games Bug as fixed.

I think they have fixed it for the actual Quake3 game
....so the renaming of other games Main.Exe's trick works...BUT they haven't 
included fixes explicitly for the other games.

I find the rename to Quake3.exe tactic works well with in XP
but in Win 7 all the games start but the brightness levels in some are very 
dark &
refuse to be changed.
Thanks to Ross Ridge here for that jk2 Hack ..I will try it.
@@@Mouse@@@ 

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 21:40:43 +0100, Shawk <shawk@gmx.co.uk.3guesses>
wrote:

>Le 05/01/2011 09:14, John Lewis a �crit :
>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 01:20:06 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
>> <no-spam@never.spam>  wrote:
>>
>>> There is a known problem with Quake 3 engine games
>>> which use the OpenGl method in that ATI Catalyst drivers
>>> will not work particular since Cat 10.5 .
>>>
>>> The most suggested fix found on the Net is to replace the file
>>> atioglxx.dll with a version from Cat 10.4 or earlier.
>>> This atioglxx.dll is in XP&  VISTA in ' Windows\System32 '
>>> In Windows 7 its in 'Windows\SysWOW64'
>>> Its the same for 32&  64 bit versions.
>>> Or to install a pre 10.5 version of the Cat Drivers....(hardly satisfactory)
>>>
>>> I've been using this method OK until recently when I found the
>>> latest Catalyst 10.12 still wouldn't work in XP with an older
>>> atioglxx.dll&  not well in Win 7.
>>>
>>> Much further Net searching yielded the following fix:
>>> The problem occurs at the start up of these games which can not cope
>>> with modern complexities in the ATI OpenGl driver.
>>> By going into the games Folder&  making a copy of the main EXE file
>>> then renaming that to QUAKE3.EXE that should now run OK.
>>> The quake3.exe name fools the drivers into using a configuration the engine
>>> can work with.
>>> The using old  'atioglxx.dll' tactic is now not needed. Indeed the lastest
>>> version
>>> will give better results.
>>>
>>> Games affected:
>>> GLQuake
>>> Quake II
>>> Heretic II
>>> Sin 1
>>> Kingpin: Life of Crime
>>> Soldier of Fortune 1
>>> Soldier of Fortune 2
>>> Anachronox
>>> Call of Duty 1&  UO
>>> Return to Castle Wolfenstein Single Player
>>> Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
>>> Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
>>> Medal of Honor Allied Assault&  the two expansions
>>> KOTOR (sometimes)
>>> Star Trek Voyager Elite Force
>>> Star Trek Voyager Elite Force 2
>>> Heavy Metal FAKK2
>>> Daikatana
>>> (\__/)
>>> (='.'=)
>>> (")_(")  mouse (sooo ! Old)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> The problem occurs at the start up of these games which can not cope
>>> with modern complexities in the ATI OpenGl driver.
>>
>> Huh. What "modern complexities" ?
>>
>> How  inconvenient, when a comprehensive OpenGL driver fix on ATi's
>> part would probably.....
>
>Translation ... I hate ATI
>
>
>> Nvidia latest driver 260.99 with a GTX460 on XP32 SP3 has no problem
>> at all with the.....
>
>Translation... I love NVidia
>
>Its nice when you've been away a long time to come back and find 
>nothings changed.... thanks John.
>

Got your knickers in a twist, I see.

I have genuine PRACTICAL reasons for staying with nVidia. How about
your own PRACTICAL reasons for ATi ? 

John Lewis

On 07/01/2011 03:42, John Lewis wrote:

>
>
> Got your knickers in a twist, I see.


Nope... just mildly amused that I can go away from the newsgroup for a 
year or so and come back to see you saying exactly the same things as 
you have said for several years previously.  In an uncertain world 
there's a little comfort to be had from knowing some things never change 
(no matter what technological advances are made)...


> I have genuine PRACTICAL reasons for staying with nVidia. How about
> your own PRACTICAL reasons for ATi ?


Also nice to see some folk are still carrying on with that old 
traditional craft of building straw men.

You may recall on 27th December in response to my question about gfx 
cards you posted "I would highly suggest waiting to see the
specs/reviews on the upcoming nVidia GTX560, expected to release late
January, early -February" and my reply was "The GTX570 is calling to me 
currently and I fancy a NVidia card this time - they seem to be doing a 
lot of things right at last"

But thanks for playing...

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 20:50:27 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Shawk wrote: 

>> I have genuine PRACTICAL reasons for staying with nVidia. How about
>> your own PRACTICAL reasons for ATi ?
>
>
>Also nice to see some folk are still carrying on with that old 
>traditional craft of building straw men.
>
>You may recall on 27th December in response to my question about gfx 
>cards you posted "I would highly suggest waiting to see the
>specs/reviews on the upcoming nVidia GTX560, expected to release late
>January, early -February" and my reply was "The GTX570 is calling to me 
>currently and I fancy a NVidia card this time - they seem to be doing a 
>lot of things right at last"
>
>But thanks for playing...

I'm simply in awe at your correct use of the term "straw man argument."

Well done, sir. ;^)

-- 
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On 08/01/2011 22:57, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 20:50:27 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Shawk wrote:
>
>>> I have genuine PRACTICAL reasons for staying with nVidia. How about
>>> your own PRACTICAL reasons for ATi ?
>>
>>
>> Also nice to see some folk are still carrying on with that old
>> traditional craft of building straw men.
>>
>> You may recall on 27th December in response to my question about gfx
>> cards you posted "I would highly suggest waiting to see the
>> specs/reviews on the upcoming nVidia GTX560, expected to release late
>> January, early -February" and my reply was "The GTX570 is calling to me
>> currently and I fancy a NVidia card this time - they seem to be doing a
>> lot of things right at last"
>>
>> But thanks for playing...
>
> I'm simply in awe at your correct use of the term "straw man argument."
>
> Well done, sir. ;^)


Seems to be a dying art but thankyou.  Nice to see you are still around 
Zag.. hope things are good with you

John Lewis wrote:

> 
> Nvidia latest driver 260.99 with a GTX460 on XP32 SP3 has no problem
> at all with the DOS/DOSBox/ GL games in my collection that I have had
> an opportunity to run with this newer nV hardware and driver (Star
> Wars JK 1/II/Outcast,  Kingpin, SOF1, Sin Episodes:Emergence, etc,
> etc..).
> 
> I have stayed with nV hardware due to the generally excellent
> Dx/OpenGL HW and SW backward compatibility in their graphics drivers.
> I have a large collection of "classic" PC games that I like to revisit
> from time to time and play on my current gaming machine. Russian
> Roulette with graphics driver changes, or having to find manual hacks
> just to play an older game are not my kind of fun.
> 

I have had mostly good experience with backwards-compatibility 
with Nvidia graphic-chip and Drivers but i run into trouble when 
i recently tried the old 'Project I.G.I. I' on my current machine 
and when i read the ReadMe i found:

                ----------------------------------

Q. My Mouse Cursor/Crosshair will not display within the game.

A. If you are experiencing missing crosshairs, mouse cursor and
    life meter indicators in game and are running a Geforce-based
    graphics card, this is due to compatibility issues with the
    latest drivers from NVIDIA (Detonator XP). Unfortunately,
    NVIDIA have since taken the 23.11 drivers off their website
    and we have found the drivers they offer currently to be
    unsuccessful at running the game.

                ----------------------------------

     Probably not Nvidia's fault, more probably the 
Game-developer in the first place and then the dev./publisher for 
not providing an update. So i now have to play it (Proj.IGI) on 
an old machine, that has an old GF2 card, with the Detonator 
23.11 version so i will have a visible pointer-icon.

Not important, but i wondered if you have this game?
And if so, can you get a pointer-icon in-game on newer Nvidia-gear?


-- 

On the plus side, none of us could play Daikatana for a while. 

Le 09/01/2011 18:42, Ayatollah of rock 'n' roller a �crit :
> On the plus side, none of us could play Daikatana for a while.
>
>


Nice... :)

On 1/5/2011 12:14 AM, John Lewis wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 01:20:06 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
> <no-spam@never.spam>  wrote:
>
>
>> The problem occurs at the start up of these games which can not cope
>> with modern complexities in the ATI OpenGl driver.
>
> Huh. What "modern complexities" ?
>
> How  inconvenient, when a comprehensive OpenGL driver fix on ATi's
> part would probably have been a 15 minute exercise by one of their
> driver team.. ATi's GL support seems to be always late and
> half-baked...

Except that in this case, it is due to a bug in id software game
engines. One of the first things the software in Quake 3 (and also
Quake 2) engine do, is to ask for the openGl extensions supported
by the graphic driver. It also sets aside a memory buffer where
the reply from the driver (a list of extensions) are stored.
These early games didn't anticipate the number of extensions
that would be supported by subsequent versions of the API. So you
either get buffer overrun or seriously cut down list of extensions
(if the application writer at least checked for a max limit) which
either crash the game or affect regular functioning.

I downloaded Return to Castle Wolfenstein source code, to fix it
myself and the problem was obvious. Actually, the code even had
a comment about the buffer size not enough for future compatibility
and someone had arbitrarily increased the size about two or
three times as a quick workaround.

When nVidia released OpenGl 4.0 support, their customers ran into
exact same problem. Quake 3 games stopped working. To their credit
though, they fixed the issue quickly by detecting the application
and then only sending extensions supported by OpenGl 2.0. ATI's
10.10e (hotfix) drivers do the same and most Quake3/2 games work
(with Call of Duty as the only big exception)

Until ATI added fix for game engine's shortcoming, the workaround
was to copy atioglxx.dll (from Catalyst 10.4 and before) into the
game directory. I am not sure why that method stopped working
for Trimble. Currently I have three Quake 3 engine games installed.
Alice and Quake 3 (both original and Live) run fine without any
issues on 10.10e driver, and Call of Duty requires copying the dll file.

My 2�
--
Noman