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TOEE - Party, stats etc,

I've played a few different parties, trying different things out. I'm not a
d&d 3.x officiando and need some guidance. First the party. I am have two
right now that I like:

Fighter Paladin Cleric Rogue and Sorcerer
Fighter Monk Cleric Rogue and Wizard

Both parties do pretty well. Any thoughts on improving these parties? Is the
wizard as good as the sorcerer in the long run? I like the multiple magic
missiles that my sorcerer has, but the wizard has many more spells to choose
from.

I love monks but not sure how well monks do in this game. They worked pretty
well in NWN and I loved my monks from Bards Tale. Should the monk use the
staff he starts with or go unarmed all the time? Do the monk bonuses really
only apply to unarmed combat? And if you get light armor skill for the monk
does it affect his unarmed capability? Can the monk replace the rogue
assuming you have magical open door, knock capability, and good searching
skills.

For skills and stats,  it seems that it is imperative that you have high
intelligence in all party members because of the skill points you get. My
fighter in the second party has 11 intelligence and gets, I think, 3 skill
points per level. This is brutal. My Rogue gets a huge number, 20 plus. Is
this totally based on intelligence or are there race and or other factors
that come into play?

The first party had done pretty well and has cleared the moat house and is
ready to head on. The second party is just entering the moat house and has
done the town quests or at least most of them.

I guess what I am looking for is a little more information on what are the
critical stats and skills for the various party members that I have. I wish
I could edit the character stats so that I could get the critical stats high
enough but increase intelligence to get the skill points. Any guidance in
these areas would be appreciated.



0
LoneCoyote
9/21/2003 8:50:19 PM
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"LoneCoyote" <lonecoyote@shaw.blabla.ca> writes:

> Both parties do pretty well. Any thoughts on improving these parties? Is the
> wizard as good as the sorcerer in the long run? I like the multiple magic
> missiles that my sorcerer has, but the wizard has many more spells to choose
> from.

My strategy has been to have a single-classed Wizard, since those 3rd
level spells are extremely useful (you know the ones I'm talking
about) and the Wizard gets them sooner, and more of them. I've got a
dual-classed rogue/sorc, and she mainly uses spells for id and read
magic.

> I love monks but not sure how well monks do in this game.

My monk's pretty effective, especially after 5th level when the bare
handed attacks start becoming effective. I suspect a human fighter
with a big weapon would still be doing more damage, but the monk is
fun and the idle adnimations are a riot.

I don't have all the answers to your questions about monks, but I
think a monk could replace a rogue, and knock is a 2nd level spell, so
it's not as though you'd be giving up magic missiles to memorize it.

> For skills and stats,  it seems that it is imperative that you have high
> intelligence in all party members because of the skill points you get. My
> fighter in the second party has 11 intelligence and gets, I think, 3 skill
> points per level. This is brutal. My Rogue gets a huge number, 20 plus. Is
> this totally based on intelligence or are there race and or other factors
> that come into play?

Rogues get  a ton more skill points than the other clases. It's
because their class specialties (disable device, open locks, the
traditional thieve's skills) are skill-based.

> The first party had done pretty well and has cleared the moat house and is
> ready to head on. The second party is just entering the moat house and has
> done the town quests or at least most of them.

With stats you kind of have to go with what you like best. My
characters with regular int scores aren't hurting too badly due to
lack of skill points... I screwed up my monk because she has a higher
int than wis, but it's hardly been a gamestopper and she's still a
really effective character.

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
0
Nick
9/22/2003 1:52:15 PM
"LoneCoyote" <lonecoyote@shaw.blabla.ca> wrote in
news:faobb.1003172$ro6.19606531@news2.calgary.shaw.ca: 

> Is the wizard as good as the sorcerer in the long run? 

IMO wizard is a great addition to most parties.  Since a wizard can copy 
any spell he finds into his spellbook and then scribe that spell to a 
scroll, he becomes a great asset to the party.  If you have a bard or 
rogue you can bump up their use magical device skill a lot and have the 
ability to cast any spell your wizard can cast.  Plus the wizards always 
get access to higher level spells one level earlier than the sorceror.

> I love monks but not sure how well monks do in this game. They worked
> pretty well in NWN and I loved my monks from Bards Tale. Should the
> monk use the staff he starts with or go unarmed all the time? Do the
> monk bonuses really only apply to unarmed combat? And if you get light
> armor skill for the monk does it affect his unarmed capability? Can
> the monk replace the rogue assuming you have magical open door, knock
> capability, and good searching skills.

Not sure about skills, but I can answer your other questions.  Monks can 
only use their Flurry of Blows ability (on extra attack per round) 
unarmed.  I think that their special moves like Stunning Fist and Ki 
Strike also work unarmed only.  Also, when wearing any armor they cannot 
use any special Monk abilities, including the Wisdom bonus to AC.

If I were to make a Monk in this game, I'd take two levels of Fighter 
first, get Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) and some other combat feats, 
like Power Attack and Cleave, for instance.  Then when you take your 
first level of Monk the -2 Flurry of Blows penalty will be offset by your 
Fighter BAB and you'll be ahead of the game in feats.  Also remember that 
if you want to multiclass a Monk, you can't return to the Monk class 
after you've left it.  So if you had a level 1 Monk and took a level in 
another class for level 2, you could never take another level of Monk.

> For skills and stats,  it seems that it is imperative that you have
> high intelligence in all party members because of the skill points you
> get.

It might seem that way, but some characters just don't need skill points.  
With a party of five that you make yourself, you should be able to get 
away with two characters with no skills.  I have a Half Orc Cleric of 
Hextor with domains Destruction and War that is a great character, but 
she has 4 int.  She gets 1 skill point per level which I put in 
Concentration, and that's fine.  She doesn't need anything else.

I would recommend any Bards or Rogues having at least 17 if not 18 int.  
Although you can increase it later, try for the 18 at first level, 
because increases of int later on do not grant retroactive skill points, 
unlike say, con which gives retroactive hit points for each level.

> My fighter in the second party has 11 intelligence and gets, I
> think, 3 skill points per level. This is brutal. My Rogue gets a huge
> number, 20 plus. Is this totally based on intelligence or are there
> race and or other factors that come into play?

Each class gets a number of skill points based on it's class.  Then your 
int bonus is added to that.  Also, humans get 4 extra points at 1st level 
and 1 each level thereafter.  So I'm assuming you have a human fighter 
there.  He gets 2 points for being a fighter, 1 for being a human, and 0 
from his int bonus.  If you increase his int to 12 he'll get an extra 
point per level from then on.
0
Brian
9/22/2003 3:26:29 PM
Thank you Nick and Brian. Some good information in there. My latest party
is:
Dwarf Fighter, Human Monk, Human Cleric, Hobbit Rogue, and Elf Sorcerer.
I
have used the high rolls in the right places according to the manual. ie
high charisma for the sorcerer and high charisma and wisdom for the cleric.
My characters are level 2 and well on their way to level 3. I am clearing
the mote house...again. 8) Great combat game, with lots of strategies you
need to consider when getting into a fight. I've lost a few characters in
some of these fights but if you repostion your party members and think
tactically you can usually overcome anything...usually.

"Brian Christopher Robinson" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:Xns93FE746424A06bcr19374@129.250.170.93...
> "LoneCoyote" <lonecoyote@shaw.blabla.ca> wrote in
> news:faobb.1003172$ro6.19606531@news2.calgary.shaw.ca:
>
> > Is the wizard as good as the sorcerer in the long run?
>
> IMO wizard is a great addition to most parties.  Since a wizard can copy
> any spell he finds into his spellbook and then scribe that spell to a
> scroll, he becomes a great asset to the party.  If you have a bard or
> rogue you can bump up their use magical device skill a lot and have the
> ability to cast any spell your wizard can cast.  Plus the wizards always
> get access to higher level spells one level earlier than the sorceror.
>
> > I love monks but not sure how well monks do in this game. They worked
> > pretty well in NWN and I loved my monks from Bards Tale. Should the
> > monk use the staff he starts with or go unarmed all the time? Do the
> > monk bonuses really only apply to unarmed combat? And if you get light
> > armor skill for the monk does it affect his unarmed capability? Can
> > the monk replace the rogue assuming you have magical open door, knock
> > capability, and good searching skills.
>
> Not sure about skills, but I can answer your other questions.  Monks can
> only use their Flurry of Blows ability (on extra attack per round)
> unarmed.  I think that their special moves like Stunning Fist and Ki
> Strike also work unarmed only.  Also, when wearing any armor they cannot
> use any special Monk abilities, including the Wisdom bonus to AC.
>
> If I were to make a Monk in this game, I'd take two levels of Fighter
> first, get Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) and some other combat feats,
> like Power Attack and Cleave, for instance.  Then when you take your
> first level of Monk the -2 Flurry of Blows penalty will be offset by your
> Fighter BAB and you'll be ahead of the game in feats.  Also remember that
> if you want to multiclass a Monk, you can't return to the Monk class
> after you've left it.  So if you had a level 1 Monk and took a level in
> another class for level 2, you could never take another level of Monk.
>
> > For skills and stats,  it seems that it is imperative that you have
> > high intelligence in all party members because of the skill points you
> > get.
>
> It might seem that way, but some characters just don't need skill points.
> With a party of five that you make yourself, you should be able to get
> away with two characters with no skills.  I have a Half Orc Cleric of
> Hextor with domains Destruction and War that is a great character, but
> she has 4 int.  She gets 1 skill point per level which I put in
> Concentration, and that's fine.  She doesn't need anything else.
>
> I would recommend any Bards or Rogues having at least 17 if not 18 int.
> Although you can increase it later, try for the 18 at first level,
> because increases of int later on do not grant retroactive skill points,
> unlike say, con which gives retroactive hit points for each level.
>
> > My fighter in the second party has 11 intelligence and gets, I
> > think, 3 skill points per level. This is brutal. My Rogue gets a huge
> > number, 20 plus. Is this totally based on intelligence or are there
> > race and or other factors that come into play?
>
> Each class gets a number of skill points based on it's class.  Then your
> int bonus is added to that.  Also, humans get 4 extra points at 1st level
> and 1 each level thereafter.  So I'm assuming you have a human fighter
> there.  He gets 2 points for being a fighter, 1 for being a human, and 0
> from his int bonus.  If you increase his int to 12 he'll get an extra
> point per level from then on.



0
LoneCoyote
9/22/2003 6:38:07 PM
On 22 Sep 2003 15:26:29 GMT, Brian Christopher Robinson <a@b.c> wrote:

>Not sure about skills, but I can answer your other questions.  Monks can 
>only use their Flurry of Blows ability (on extra attack per round) 
>unarmed. 

  Also works with monk special weapons, including the quarterstaff.

> I think that their special moves like Stunning Fist and Ki 
>Strike also work unarmed only.  

  True, but in the PnP version, you are still be able to make an
unarmed stunning fist attack even if holding a weapon (feet, head,
elbows and knees ect).

-  
To Reply: Take off every Zig!
EAC - Director of Temporal Adjustment
Ordained Minister - Universal Life Church
0
Scott
9/22/2003 8:26:30 PM
Reply: