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Vintage IBM industrial computer/PS2 (7541) - tough to find! auction

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5221558276
Ends Jul-26-05 20:32:18 PDT
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Louis
7/20/2005 12:52:01 PM
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Louis Ohland wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5221558276
> Ends Jul-26-05 20:32:18 PDT
> Reply to ohland@charter.net

Dave Finzel is a good seller.

Where could we find information about this 7541 box?

Dan

0
Dan
7/24/2005 3:34:20 PM
Louis Ohland wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5221558276
> Ends Jul-26-05 20:32:18 PDT
> Reply to ohland@charter.net

Dave Finzel is a good seller.

Where could we find information about this 7541 box?

Dan

0
Dan
7/24/2005 3:34:45 PM
Louis Ohland wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5221558276
> Ends Jul-26-05 20:32:18 PDT
> Reply to ohland@charter.net

Dave Finzel is a good seller.

Where could we find information about this 7541 box?

Dan

0
Dan
7/24/2005 3:35:14 PM
I candt findt anything yet. I found the 7537, which seems odd,
references the L40 SX technical reference...

Dan the K wrote:
> 
> Louis Ohland wrote:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5221558276
> > Ends Jul-26-05 20:32:18 PDT
> > Reply to ohland@charter.net
> 
> Dave Finzel is a good seller.
> 
> Where could we find information about this 7541 box?
> 
> Dan

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Louis
7/24/2005 3:52:54 PM
Looks like it's a microchannel based system. I have the refdisk on the
Gila Monster.

http://www.gilanet.com/ohlandl/ic_files/ref7541.html

The 1784-KT2 has been verified for operation with the following
computers:
Allen-Bradley 6123, 6124
IBM PS/2 7541, 7561, 8550, 8555, 8560, 8570, 8580

Louis Ohland wrote:
> 
> I candt findt anything yet. I found the 7537, which seems odd,
> references the L40 SX technical reference...
> 
> Dan the K wrote:
> >
> > Louis Ohland wrote:
> > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5221558276
> > > Ends Jul-26-05 20:32:18 PDT
> > > Reply to ohland@charter.net
> >
> > Dave Finzel is a good seller.
> >
> > Where could we find information about this 7541 box?
> >
> > Dan
> 
> --
> Reply to ohland@charter.net

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Louis
7/24/2005 4:01:45 PM
IBM 7541 AND 7542 INDUSTRIAL COMPUTERS
IBM Announcement Letter Number 189-042

The 7541 and 7542 Industrial Computers are designed to function in an
industrial plant floor environment where harsh physical conditions may
exist.  The system is highlighted by Micro Channel (TM) architecture
with a 10MHz 80286 16-bit microprocessor with a capability of supporting
up to 2Mb of real memory on the system board, 30Mb of disk storage, a
1.44Mb diskette drive and VGA graphics.  Total memory is expandable to
16Mb by adding 16-bit I/O slot memory expansion feature cards.

Super K, I'd opine that it is based on the 50z planar. So this is like
the 7561/62

Louis Ohland wrote:
> 
> Looks like it's a microchannel based system. I have the refdisk on the
> Gila Monster.
> 
> http://www.gilanet.com/ohlandl/ic_files/ref7541.html
> 
> The 1784-KT2 has been verified for operation with the following
> computers:
> Allen-Bradley 6123, 6124
> IBM PS/2 7541, 7561, 8550, 8555, 8560, 8570, 8580
> 
> Louis Ohland wrote:
> >
> > I candt findt anything yet. I found the 7537, which seems odd,
> > references the L40 SX technical reference...
> >
> > Dan the K wrote:
> > >
> > > Louis Ohland wrote:
> > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5221558276
> > > > Ends Jul-26-05 20:32:18 PDT
> > > > Reply to ohland@charter.net
> > >
> > > Dave Finzel is a good seller.
> > >
> > > Where could we find information about this 7541 box?
> > >
> > > Dan
> >
> > --
> > Reply to ohland@charter.net
> 
> --
> Reply to ohland@charter.net

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Louis
7/24/2005 4:08:13 PM
> Super K, I'd opine that it is based on the 50z planar. So this is like
> the 7561/62

Just saw a picture of the inside of the unit, and from last
summer when David B. showed me a model 50z planar, I would
say that the inside is a model 50z planar.  Oddly enough, 
there are four slot covers on the back, but just three
expansion slots on the planar. But, to give teh IBMers
credit, they only numbered three slots on the outside, ;).

exwisdem
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David
7/26/2005 2:44:46 PM
And yet another industrial system has appeared on the
radar:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5223710169

although it is a 7546.

exwisdem
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David
7/26/2005 3:17:21 PM
For - THE - quintessential IBM Industrial system Experience, there is no
substitute for holy joy. Behold, the   7552 (AT technology) and the 7568
(MCA cosmology). 
http://www.gilanet.com/ohlandl/7568/7568_Common_Devices.html

David Ress wrote:
> 
> And yet another industrial system has appeared on the
> radar:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5223710169
> 
> although it is a 7546.
> 
> exwisdem

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Louis
7/26/2005 6:01:33 PM
No idea if it is a 57 (SLC), Bermuda or Lacuna.

> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5223710169
> >
> > although it is a 7546.
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Louis
7/26/2005 6:05:48 PM
Hi David,
> ...Just saw a picture of the inside of the unit, and from last
> summer when David B. showed me a model 50z planar,
> I would say that the inside is a model 50z planar...
     Yes, it is. With a 287 coprocessor (not too rare with me anymore). And 
some different kind of cable for the DBA ESDI drive, because it has a Model 
70 PSU & drive platform.

> ...Oddly enough, there are four slot covers on the back, but
> just three expansion slots on the planar. But, to give the
> IBMers credit, they only numbered three slots on the outside...
     Yes, so it can fit the 7561 planar as well 
(http://www.gilanet.com/ohlandl/7561-62/7562_Planar.html). The picture the 
seller has forwarded looks very similiar to Alfred's 7561 
(http://www.gilanet.com/ohlandl/7561-62/ibm7561.html). And for what it is 
worth I am still interested in being the buyer.
                             David
                             David@IBMMuseum.com 


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David
7/27/2005 1:51:23 AM
Hi Louis,
> No idea if it is a 57 (SLC), Bermuda or Lacuna.
     9556/9557 planar. See the SCSI, video (XGA-2), & dual serial ports on 
the planar (which neither Model 77 has) in a picture of the back. Which 
means a 486SLC2 or 486SLC3 CPU.
                       David
                       David@IBMMuseum.com 


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David
7/27/2005 2:19:50 AM
> I would say that the inside is a model 50z planar

Hello David,
Which type of hard drive would fit this machine?When you get it in
mabey you can look inside and take a peek.I guess from the above, one
from a 50Z? I picked up one of these machines (7541) a few years ago
and it has the green(color) monitor & keyboard to go with it. It came
from NASA and it looks like the inside sheet metal is stainless steel
of course w/ no hard drive.

  MT

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PS
7/27/2005 3:02:39 PM
"PS/2_RETROPRINCE",
> Which type of hard drive would fit this machine? When you get
> it in mabey you can look inside and take a peek.I guess from the
> above, one from a 50Z? I picked up one of these machines
> (7541) a few years ago and it has the green(color) monitor &
> keyboard to go with it. It came from NASA and it looks like
> the inside sheet metal is stainless steel of course w/ no hard drive.
     From a picture forwarded to me it looks to be a DBA ESDI drive like
would be on a 50Z normally. The PSU & drive platform from a Model 70 is
inside, so that blocks access to the inside 16-bit slot the DBA riser sits
in. There appears to be a shorter card header fitting below the platform
with the cable routed around to the drive
(http://www.gilanet.com/David/7541/ibminsde.JPG).
     The National Instruments card is already spoken for by someone that
forwarded the picture. I'll have to see the assembly of the DBA riser or
whether something like the hard drive controller from the Apricot would fit.
If there was a right angle riser (a reverse of like what is on the XStation
130) a 16-bit SCSI card could be put parallel to the planar.
     My 7568 Industrial (Gearbox 800) is from Johnson Space Center, with a
serial number of 002 (meaning there should have been at least one other
Gearbox there, becuse the serial numbers were customer sequences, not in a
series). I can't figure out what the system was used for in particular.
Still looking for a breakout box
(http://www.gilanet.com/ohlandl/7568/7568_System_Resource.html#Three_Port_Ca
ble) for it.
                     David
                     David@IBMMuseum.com


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David
7/27/2005 4:00:00 PM
Hi Louis,
> ...Which means a 486SLC2 or 486SLC3 CPU...
     Per your page for the 7546, the A11 & A12 sub-models are a 486SLC2 CPU.
Meaning the same planar as a 9556/9557-xBx. Not marked what the 620 & 622
sub-models are, but using the same reference/diagnostic images (so they
could be a 486SLC3 9556/9557-xEx planar possibly).
                       David
                       David@IBMMuseum.com


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David
7/27/2005 5:42:01 PM
Hi!

David, whatever you do, be very protective of the grey keyboard. They
*melt* all too easily. You'll want to be very careful dishwashing it
and direct sunlight is absolutely out of the question.

I've had two of these units...one was fine until I dishwashed it and
the other...I really have no idea. It looked fine at purchase time but
was melted when I got it home.

William

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wm_walsh
7/27/2005 7:56:00 PM
7541 came in today...
>> I would say that the inside is a model 50z planar...
     Yes, but with an FRU none of my 50Z planars have: 15F8675.
Strangely it gives the Planar ID of a 50-021: FBFFh. Model/Submodel of
FC/04, BIOS revision "03".

> ...And some different kind of cable for the DBA ESDI
> drive, because it has a Model 70 PSU & drive platform.
     The drive cable is FRU 15F8732. It does have a TTL 74S244 buffer
chip in it's length. The drive (Standard 30Mb DBA ESDI) is failing
(hope I can grab any software for the NI-MIO-16 for who gets it), not
booting about half the time.
     Drive platform is from a Model 70, but is labeled FRU 15F8655.
Starting to see a pattern here? PSU is slightly modified from a Model
70, FRU 23F1415 (interesting that the Model 50Z SIMM (2Mb) *can't* come
out unless the planar or PSU is removed).
     The Alps 1.44Mb is also failing. I have replaced it (took a few
attempts) with one that works. Other than the NI adapter there is a
full-length TR card that rings in at a blazing 4Mbps (just the way the
config is set right now, because it's 16/4).
     PC-DOS 4. IBM LAN for the TR adapter. I haven't looked deeper at
the software because of the drive errors. Despite the drive failures,
this has to be the cleanest "PS/2" I have seen. The fan screen stopped
all the dust (it is built up there on the outside).
                              David
                              David@IBMMuseum.com

0
IBMMuseum
8/17/2005 2:02:41 AM
Hello David,

> 7541 came in today...

Good for you.

> >> I would say that the inside is a model 50z planar...

>      Yes, but with an FRU none of my 50Z planars have: 15F8675.
> Strangely it gives the Planar ID of a 50-021: FBFFh. Model/Submodel of
> FC/04, BIOS revision "03".

FRU for a 50z, yet Planar ID is for a 50? I *was* going to look at your 
webpages some before posting, but it seems all the book marks I have are 
no longer valid. Bummer.

>      The drive cable is FRU 15F8732. It does have a TTL 74S244 buffer
> chip in it's length. The drive (Standard 30Mb DBA ESDI) is failing
> (hope I can grab any software for the NI-MIO-16 for who gets it), not
> booting about half the time.

Is the drive cable similar to what you were looking for about a year 
ago?  I guess the 74LS244 is tied to the d0-d7 data pins for syncing the 
byte transfers? 

And what a thankful guy he would be if you can get the NI-MIO-16 softare 
from the drive... 

>      Drive platform is from a Model 70, but is labeled FRU 15F8655.
> Starting to see a pattern here? PSU is slightly modified from a Model
> 70, FRU 23F1415 (interesting that the Model 50Z SIMM (2Mb) *can't* come
> out unless the planar or PSU is removed).

Sounds like a "hobbled" together system, but I am not seeing much of a 
pattern aside from that. Do I need more coffee to see the pattern?

> Despite the drive failures,
> this has to be the cleanest "PS/2" I have seen. The fan screen stopped
> all the dust (it is built up there on the outside).

When I worked at TRW many years ago, we had IBM's industrial XT systems 
deployed in some of the filthiest environments possible. Changing the 
oil in one was a weekly event, as was replacing the filter in all of 
them. All can say is IBM really made some good industrial hardware back 
then. I have never used an industrial one with MCA, but I bet they are 
just as rock solid.

Given the sellers description and the fact it is an industrial unit, I 
wonder if the drive "went south" (sorry for the pun Tim K., no offense 
intended) during shipping.

Enjoy your new system, and thanks for putting your museum together. As 
one who has seen it, I can honestly say it is impressive and  valuable 
resource.

exwisdem
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David
8/17/2005 1:01:00 PM
Hi David,
> FRU for a 50z, yet Planar ID is for a 50? I *was* going to look
> at your webpages some before posting, but it seems all the book
> marks I have are no longer valid. Bummer.
     Perhaps because of a rename of one or two (taking the 'L' off the end, 
for 8.3 naming convention) pages. I have moved a copy (accessable with 
directory browsing for now, an index page later) to 
www.IBMMuseum.com/Routines/ as well. Be aware any links (except for the 
domain name) are CASE SENSITIVE on that server.

> Is the drive cable similar to what you were looking for about
> a year ago? I guess the 74LS244 is tied to the d0-d7 data
> pins for syncing the byte transfers?
     No, that was the TP700/TP720 IDE converter. I haven't investigated the 
TTL chip enough yet to see which pins it is on (and one chip means only 
eight bits). For those not familiar with TTL 74**244/74**245 buffer chips, 
it is just like a knob (Chip Select line) to allow buffering of those 
signals through the device (the 244 & 245 differ in that one also inverts 
the signal).

> And what a thankful guy he would be if you can get the
> NI-MIO-16 softare from the drive...
     Looks like some Fortran source, in a "ROBOTCOM" directory. There was 
another directory with something about communications. But it will be a 
little more time with me in front of the system, with the drive working (bad 
sector errors keep coming up) to see.

> Sounds like a "hobbled" together system, but I am not
> seeing much of a pattern aside from that. Do I need
> more coffee to see the pattern?
     Doubtless you will have more coffee anyway. I was referring to the 
similarities of the FRUs put on the stock PS/2 parts. Mostly the pattern of 
15F8xxx.

> When I worked at TRW many years ago, we had IBM's industrial
> XT systems deployed in some of the filthiest environments
> possible. Changing the oil in one was a weekly event, as was
> replacing the filter in all of them. All can say is IBM really made
> some good industrial hardware back then. I have never used
> an industrial one with MCA, but I bet they are just as rock solid.
     This is my first experience with a microchannel version. I rather like 
even the ISA & PCI versions too, in some cases going to good RAID 
arrangements. The failures I have seen on this one are the same ones on 
PS/2s since they use the same components here (DBA ESDI drive & Alps 
floppies).

> Given the sellers description and the fact it is an industrial unit, I
> wonder if the drive "went south" (sorry for the pun Tim K., no
> offense intended) during shipping.
     About half the time I power it up there is no initial drive error (but 
it always has a read error later, luckily able to be aborted to get to a DOS 
prompt). The beeps & sequence are nearly the same, so booting without a 
"good monitor, keyboard, etc" had errors the seller never saw. As I have 
other drives, my main worry is just getting the data I can for you.

> Enjoy your new system, and thanks for putting your museum
> together. As one who has seen it, I can honestly say it is
> impressive and  valuable resource.
     I'm tired of not giving enough time for the online content (why I have 
started to put the routines & interrupt pages there). But that is how my 
life is now. Perhaps WBST needs to visit so I can put more effort into my 
webpages too!
                       David
                       David@IBMMuseum.com 


0
David
8/17/2005 8:00:18 PM
Hello David,

>      Perhaps because of a rename of one or two (taking the 'L' off the end, 
> for 8.3 naming convention) pages. I have moved a copy (accessable with 
> directory browsing for now, an index page later) to 
> www.IBMMuseum.com/Routines/ as well. Be aware any links (except for the 
> domain name) are CASE SENSITIVE on that server.

Thanks, I will check later tonight once the little ones are in bed.

> > And what a thankful guy he would be if you can get the
> > NI-MIO-16 softare from the drive...
>      Looks like some Fortran source, in a "ROBOTCOM" directory. There was 
> another directory with something about communications. But it will be a 
> little more time with me in front of the system, with the drive working (bad 
> sector errors keep coming up) to see.

Sounds interesting, but do not spend any more time on it.  I know you 
are busy.

> As I have 
> other drives, my main worry is just getting the data I can for you.

I appreciate the effort, but I know all about read errors and hard 
drives. Seriously, I know you have more important demands on your time 
than reading from a drive with read errors.

>      I'm tired of not giving enough time for the online content (why I have 
> started to put the routines & interrupt pages there). But that is how my 
> life is now. Perhaps WBST needs to visit so I can put more effort into my 
> webpages too!

Well, if WBST comes to visit you, send him my way when he leaves. I have 
started two new sections for my website, but have not finished them yet.

exwisdem
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David
8/17/2005 8:59:45 PM
Hi David...

"David L. Beem" <David@gilanet.com> wrote in message
news:43039755$1@nntp.zianet.com...
> <SNIP>
> > Given the sellers description and the fact it is an industrial unit, I
> > wonder if the drive "went south" (sorry for the pun Tim K., no
> > offense intended) during shipping.
>      About half the time I power it up there is no initial drive error
(but
> it always has a read error later, luckily able to be aborted to get to a
DOS
> prompt). The beeps & sequence are nearly the same, so booting without a
> "good monitor, keyboard, etc" had errors the seller never saw. As I have
> other drives, my main worry is just getting the data I can for you.
>
> > Enjoy your new system, and thanks for putting your museum
> > together. As one who has seen it, I can honestly say it is
> > impressive and  valuable resource.
>      I'm tired of not giving enough time for the online content (why I
have
> started to put the routines & interrupt pages there). But that is how my
> life is now. Perhaps WBST needs to visit so I can put more effort into my
> webpages too!

Huh? Wassup? Do what... where...?

--
Regards,
        Tim Clarke (a.k.a. WBST)

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Tim
8/17/2005 11:03:35 PM
"Tim Clarke"  wrote:

> > > Enjoy your new system, and thanks for putting your museum
> > > together. As one who has seen it, I can honestly say it is
> > > impressive and  valuable resource.
> >      I'm tired of not giving enough time for the online content (why I
> have
> > started to put the routines & interrupt pages there). But that is how my
> > life is now. Perhaps WBST needs to visit so I can put more effort into my
> > webpages too!
> 
> Huh? Wassup? Do what... where...?

where is your ibm museum? hidden somewhere under www.ibmmuseum.com?!?!?!

/pete


---------------------------------------------------------
posted via the ps/2 usenet archive at http://www.ps-2.org
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pete
8/17/2005 11:19:21 PM
Hi David!

>      Perhaps because of a rename of one or two (taking the 'L' off the end, 
> for 8.3 naming convention) pages. I have moved a copy (accessable with 
> directory browsing for now, an index page later) to 
> www.IBMMuseum.com/Routines/ as well. Be aware any links (except for the 
> domain name) are CASE SENSITIVE on that server.

Normally names of files on severs should be generally lower-case only. 
Exceptions are Makefile, README, INDEX00 and so on. And .html is also 
standard. That's all to avoid such problems you (or your visitors) have 
there ;o)

Saski
-- 
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0
Saskia
8/18/2005 9:11:43 AM
Reply: