Hi, I'm running a T60 now (2007-7KU) upgraded to 3GB RAM and a Seagate 
7200.4 320GB SATA II HDD and have, after much Googling, installed the 
drivers and enabled the AHCI mode in BIOS.

Just wondered, anyone else do the same? Do you have a T60 running in AHCI or 
do you run 'compatibility mode'?

I'm just wondering if the NCQ makes much difference (T60's are limited to 
SATA I speeds anyway..). I've only had this HDD installed for 6 hours and 
the AHCI drivers for 2 hours so can't really tell if there's a difference, 
would appreciate input....

Cheers,
-- 
Shaun.

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll 
be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'. 

[Follow-up set to comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad]
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:32:34 +1200, "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@yahoo.co.nz>
wrote in <h2i2id$7nv$1@news.eternal-september.org>:

>Hi, I'm running a T60 now (2007-7KU) upgraded to 3GB RAM and a Seagate 
>7200.4 320GB SATA II HDD and have, after much Googling, installed the 
>drivers and enabled the AHCI mode in BIOS.
>
>Just wondered, anyone else do the same? Do you have a T60 running in AHCI or 
>do you run 'compatibility mode'?
>
>I'm just wondering if the NCQ makes much difference (T60's are limited to 
>SATA I speeds anyway..). I've only had this HDD installed for 6 hours and 
>the AHCI drivers for 2 hours so can't really tell if there's a difference, 
>would appreciate input....

<http://forums.pcper.com/showpost.php?s=045c305d11ac25273e74a658462c2822&p=4137199&postcount=11>:

   Just a quick reminder for everyone on NCQ. It provides no performance
   benefit whatsoever in a typical desktop PC. In fact having it enabled
   usually imposes a small performance penalty, although it too is
   pretty small. It is only in enterprise environments, in which access
   patterns are far more random than in windows, and spread out all over
   the surface of a drive, that any real-word benefit is derived.

-- 
Best regards,    You are cordially invited to participate in the
John             official ThinkPad group news:comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad

Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Navas wrote:
> [Follow-up set to comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad]
> On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:32:34 +1200, "~misfit~"
> <sore_n_happy@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in
> <h2i2id$7nv$1@news.eternal-september.org>:
>
>> Hi, I'm running a T60 now (2007-7KU) upgraded to 3GB RAM and a
>> Seagate 7200.4 320GB SATA II HDD and have, after much Googling,
>> installed the drivers and enabled the AHCI mode in BIOS.
>>
>> Just wondered, anyone else do the same? Do you have a T60 running in
>> AHCI or do you run 'compatibility mode'?
>>
>> I'm just wondering if the NCQ makes much difference (T60's are
>> limited to SATA I speeds anyway..). I've only had this HDD installed
>> for 6 hours and the AHCI drivers for 2 hours so can't really tell if
>> there's a difference, would appreciate input....
>
> <http://forums.pcper.com/showpost.php?s=045c305d11ac25273e74a658462c2822&p=4137199&postcount=11>:
>
>   Just a quick reminder for everyone on NCQ. It provides no
>   performance benefit whatsoever in a typical desktop PC. In fact
>   having it enabled usually imposes a small performance penalty,
>   although it too is pretty small. It is only in enterprise
>   environments, in which access patterns are far more random than in
>   windows, and spread out all over the surface of a drive, that any
>   real-word benefit is derived.

Thanks John, I've read the odd comment like that too. However I've not seen 
much to back it up. When I built my current desktop I went to a lot of 
trouble post-install with registry hacks to enable AHCI (as the BIOS default 
was 'IDE compatability' and I didn't F6 on install and feed it the drivers 
on floppy). The way I see it NCQ is a step forward, it's essentially been 
implimented for years on SCSI drives but only came in on SATA drives with 
rev. 1.3. Ok, the implimentaion / alogrithims right now might not be perfect 
but they can only get better.

Also, I'd hate to think that I do anything that is 'typical' in  my life. My 
computer is pretty much always running bittorrent when it's running, often 
seeding 15+ torrents. I would think that would qualify as being fairly 
random (but predictable <g>) reading patterns across a large area (320GB 
7.2K drive over half full) that NCQ might help with.

Frankly I don't see why NCQ would have been bought to the desktop 
environment if it had no benefit. It's no small thing to make drives, BIOS 
and drivers compatable with it so a fairly large group of people must have 
agreed that it had merit.

Personally and subjectively I think that my T60 is more resonsive since 
getting AHCI to work but that could be placebo effect. NCQ is hard to 
'benchmark'. Hence the post, asking if anyone has first-hand experience with 
it on a laptop, which is usually more I/O bound than a desktop so should 
show more benefit (?)

Cheers,
-- 
Shaun.

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll 
be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.

Cheers, 

[Follow-up set to comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad]
On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:16:29 +1200, "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@yahoo.co.nz>
wrote in <h2jbqf$93f$1@news.eternal-september.org>:

>Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Navas wrote:

>> <http://forums.pcper.com/showpost.php?s=045c305d11ac25273e74a658462c2822&p=4137199&postcount=11>:
>>
>>   Just a quick reminder for everyone on NCQ. It provides no
>>   performance benefit whatsoever in a typical desktop PC. In fact
>>   having it enabled usually imposes a small performance penalty,
>>   although it too is pretty small. It is only in enterprise
>>   environments, in which access patterns are far more random than in
>>   windows, and spread out all over the surface of a drive, that any
>>   real-word benefit is derived.
>
>Thanks John, I've read the odd comment like that too. However I've not seen 
>much to back it up. When I built my current desktop I went to a lot of 
>trouble post-install with registry hacks to enable AHCI (as the BIOS default 
>was 'IDE compatability' and I didn't F6 on install and feed it the drivers 
>on floppy). The way I see it NCQ is a step forward, it's essentially been 
>implimented for years on SCSI drives but only came in on SATA drives with 
>rev. 1.3. Ok, the implimentaion / alogrithims right now might not be perfect 
>but they can only get better.

What back's it up is that SCSI drives don't show the benefit in a
desktop environment, for which there is ample data.

>Also, I'd hate to think that I do anything that is 'typical' in  my life. My 
>computer is pretty much always running bittorrent when it's running, often 
>seeding 15+ torrents. I would think that would qualify as being fairly 
>random (but predictable <g>) reading patterns across a large area (320GB 
>7.2K drive over half full) that NCQ might help with.

All legitimate of course, but that issue aside, Bittorrent doesn't
generate the kind of access that would benefit from NCQ.

>Frankly I don't see why NCQ would have been bought to the desktop 
>environment if it had no benefit. It's no small thing to make drives, BIOS 
>and drivers compatable with it so a fairly large group of people must have 
>agreed that it had merit.

It's all about marketing.  Think green sparkles in laundry soap, Techron
in Chevron gasoline, and 12 MP compact digital cameras.

>Personally and subjectively I think that my T60 is more resonsive since 
>getting AHCI to work but that could be placebo effect. NCQ is hard to 
>'benchmark'. Hence the post, asking if anyone has first-hand experience with 
>it on a laptop, which is usually more I/O bound than a desktop so should 
>show more benefit (?)

I'd be willing to bet there is zero benefit.

-- 
Best regards,    You are cordially invited to participate in the
John             official ThinkPad group news:comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad