Hi.
I'm planning to buy a new Thinkpad R61.
As I'm not willing to use Vista as long as the SP1 is not officially
released, I'd like to downgrade to XP first.
I know you can order product recovery CDs for this purpose, but the
handling fee is 300 euros.
My idea is to use the recovery CDs I created for my old R52 to do the
downgrade. Can this work, or are the recovery CDs product specific? Are
there any experiences? Any drawbacks known?

Regards,
Flo.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:06:39 +0200 Florian Zimmerer wrote:

> Hi.
> I'm planning to buy a new Thinkpad R61.
> As I'm not willing to use Vista as long as the SP1 is not officially
> released, I'd like to downgrade to XP first.
> I know you can order product recovery CDs for this purpose, but the
> handling fee is 300 euros.
> My idea is to use the recovery CDs I created for my old R52 to do the
> downgrade. Can this work, or are the recovery CDs product specific? Are
> there any experiences? Any drawbacks known?
> 
> Regards,
> Flo.
> 
Based on experience in replacing the hard drive in a R40...  I think it would 
depend on the recovery CD that you would use.  Can you boot from the CD?  Is 
the CD a clone, made with Norton Ghost or XXClone, or merely a copy?  If your 
CD is a clone and you can boot from it then it should work.

Another possibility is to purchase an OEM version of the operating system you 
prefer, see <http://www.oem-outlet.com/product.php?cat=1>.  Either install it 
in a dual-boot configuration or remove Vista entirely.
-- 
Ernie B.

Communication:  The art of moving an idea from one mind to another, hopefully 
without distortion.

Florian Zimmerer wrote:
> Hi.
> I'm planning to buy a new Thinkpad R61.
> As I'm not willing to use Vista as long as the SP1 is not officially
> released, I'd like to downgrade to XP first.
> I know you can order product recovery CDs for this purpose, but the
> handling fee is 300 euros.
> My idea is to use the recovery CDs I created for my old R52 to do the
> downgrade. Can this work, or are the recovery CDs product specific? Are
> there any experiences? Any drawbacks known?

Lenovo has a formal "downgrade to XP" program in the USA, which I took 
advantage of to take my R61 from Vista Business to XP Pro. No charge as 
I recall.

300 Euros? That's a fortune! Lenovo did charge me for a set of recovery 
DVDs to restore my R61 back to Vista Business. I called before Lenovo 
had their downgrade program, so I installed XP Pro over Vista Business. 
I preserved the Service partition, thinking it was how I'd revert to 
Vista when the time comes. Wrong! Windows plays a role in implementing 
Lenovo's restore to factory configuration, so when I deleted Vista I 
killed the ability to use the Service partition I had preserved so 
carefully. Price was $45 US, plus tax, etc.

Here's the text of the Lenovo page. which states it applies worldwide. 
It says the program will expire 31 July 2008. You need to revisit 
whoever wanted to charge you 300 Euros!

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=VSTA-DWNGRD#APPLYCOUNTRY

   Lenovo
Downgrading from Windows Vista to Windows XP
	Applicable countries and regions

Windows Vista Downgrade

Have a Microsoft Windows Vista Business or Microsoft Windows Ultimate 
system, but need to continue using Microsoft Windows XP for a while? For 
a limited time Lenovo is providing Windows XP Recovery CD media as a way 
to downgrade from Windows Vista. Lenovo customers that have Windows 
Vista Business or Windows Vista Ultimate "qualified systems" may 
purchase a Windows XP Recovery CD until July 31, 2008. Fees may vary. 
Please contact your local Support Center for additional details.

Notes:

     * "Qualified systems" are Lenovo notebook and desktop systems 
purchased with a Windows Vista Business or Windows Vista Ultimate 
preloaded operating system.
     * There will be a limit of one Windows XP Recovery CD set per 
customer, per serial number for each system series with preloaded 
software, including Windows Vista Business or Windows Vista Ultimate.

Downgrade Procedures
	Before you begin downgrading to Windows XP
	Downgrading to Windows XP
	When you are ready to reinstall Windows Vista on your system
	Additional information

Before you begin downgrading to Windows XP
The Windows XP Recovery CD set provided by Lenovo does not require any 
online activation from Microsoft. It is as if it came on the system's 
preload and contains all required drivers, language support, and 
applications in addition to the Windows XP operating system software. 
See Downgrading to Windows XP for more information about downgrading 
your system to Windows XP.

Note: As with any downgrade or change from one operating system to 
another, creating a set of Windows Vista preload image Recovery DVDs or 
CDs for a system before beginning the downgrade procedure is 
recommended. The backup Windows Vista preload image should be stored in 
a safe place for use when reinstallation of the Windows Vista operating 
system software is required. Find more detailed instructions on creating 
recovery media using ThinkVantage Rescue and Recovery.

Downgrading to Windows XP
The Windows XP Recovery CD set is bootable and will install the complete 
preload image of the operating system, drivers, and applications on the 
system.

IMPORTANT: Please be aware this boot process will reformat the hard 
drive, remove existing disk partitions, and erase any user data, 
settings and applications. Again, when changing operating systems, save 
data on separate media and reinstall any software and data once the 
system has been downgraded to Windows XP.
When you are ready to reinstall Windows Vista on your system
When you are ready to reinstall Windows Vista on your system, you will 
need to prepare applications, data, and settings for migration and store 
on separate media. It is recommended that the ThinkVantage Systems 
Migration Assistant utility be used to do this. Find more detailed 
information on using ThinkVantage System Migration Assistant to transfer 
system data.

Use the Windows Vista Recovery media that was created prior to 
downgrading to Windows XP to reinstall the system's preload environment, 
including Windows Vista. ThinkVantage System Update can be used to 
update to latest level of system firmware, drivers, software and 
ThinkVantage utilities. Once that has been completed, reinstall any 
other applications not provided by Lenovo. Use ThinkVantage System 
Migration Assistant to migrate data and application settings from the 
former Windows XP system environment. Find more detailed information on 
using ThinkVantage System Migration Assistant to migrate system data.

Note: As part of the Windows Vista reinstall procedure, the Windows XP 
operating system must be removed from the system hard drive.
Additional information
For more information on Microsoft downgrade rights, please visit the 
following URL:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/2/3/d23b9533-169d-4996-b198-7b9d3fe15611/downgrade_chart.doc

   Applicable countries and regions
Worldwide
	Back to top
Document id:  VSTA-DWNGRD
Last modified:  2007-08-29
Copyright � 2007 IBM Corporation
Copyright � Lenovo 2007, all rights reserved

Tony Harding schrieb:
> Florian Zimmerer wrote:
>> [about his plan to downgrade]
> 
> Lenovo has a formal "downgrade to XP" program in the USA, which I took
> advantage of to take my R61 from Vista Business to XP Pro. No charge as
> I recall.

This program should be available worldwide, right?

> 300 Euros? That's a fortune! Lenovo did charge me for a set of recovery
> DVDs to restore my R61 back to Vista Business. I called before Lenovo
> had their downgrade program, so I installed XP Pro over Vista Business.
> I preserved the Service partition, thinking it was how I'd revert to
> Vista when the time comes. Wrong! Windows plays a role in implementing
> Lenovo's restore to factory configuration, so when I deleted Vista I
> killed the ability to use the Service partition I had preserved so
> carefully. Price was $45 US, plus tax, etc.

You did not make a backup of your service partition prior to installing
XP? If I do, im going to save myself even these 45 bucks, right?

> Here's the text of the Lenovo page. which states it applies worldwide.
> It says the program will expire 31 July 2008. You need to revisit
> whoever wanted to charge you 300 Euros!
> [Text from Lenovos website deleted]

Obviously they wanted to make me buy a full XP Prof license. Not going
to revisit that shop again!

After reading the text from the Lenovo site my idea is the following:

1. Make a backup of the service partition of the R61, to be able to
revert to Vista Business whenever I need.
2. Make a backup of the service partition of the R52, to have a bootable
installation version of XP Professional.
3. Install XP on the R61 using the Vista product key (if key needed?).

I already know, that there might be some tweaks necessary to install XP
on the R61, as e.g. enabling SATA compatibility mode, installing some
drivers which are not available on the R52 install set.

Anyone ever did that or something similar?

Regards,
Flo.

Florian Zimmerer wrote:
> Tony Harding schrieb:
>> Florian Zimmerer wrote:
>>> [about his plan to downgrade]
>> Lenovo has a formal "downgrade to XP" program in the USA, which I took
>> advantage of to take my R61 from Vista Business to XP Pro. No charge as
>> I recall.
> 
> This program should be available worldwide, right?

So it says (check the bottom of the text):

   Applicable countries and regions
Worldwide

>> 300 Euros? That's a fortune! Lenovo did charge me for a set of recovery

I just checked an FX site for rates, at today's rate �300 = US$422, I 
think I can buy a new laptop from Dell for that much.

>> DVDs to restore my R61 back to Vista Business. I called before Lenovo
>> had their downgrade program, so I installed XP Pro over Vista Business.
>> I preserved the Service partition, thinking it was how I'd revert to
>> Vista when the time comes. Wrong! Windows plays a role in implementing
>> Lenovo's restore to factory configuration, so when I deleted Vista I
>> killed the ability to use the Service partition I had preserved so
>> carefully. Price was $45 US, plus tax, etc.
> 
> You did not make a backup of your service partition prior to installing
> XP? If I do, im going to save myself even these 45 bucks, right?

Sorry I wasn't clear here - I did save the Service partition, but 
without the hooks in Windows (Lenovo's Restore & Recovery) there's 
nothing to invoke.

>> Here's the text of the Lenovo page. which states it applies worldwide.
>> It says the program will expire 31 July 2008. You need to revisit
>> whoever wanted to charge you 300 Euros!
>> [Text from Lenovos website deleted]
> 
> Obviously they wanted to make me buy a full XP Prof license. Not going
> to revisit that shop again!
> 
> After reading the text from the Lenovo site my idea is the following:
> 
> 1. Make a backup of the service partition of the R61, to be able to
> revert to Vista Business whenever I need.

You need a backup of your Vista installation. If you don't delete the 
service partition, it will still be there after the XP install. No harm, 
of course, in making a backup of it (something I encourage BTW).

> 2. Make a backup of the service partition of the R52, to have a bootable
> installation version of XP Professional.
> 3. Install XP on the R61 using the Vista product key (if key needed?).

I don't think the Vista key will help your XP install, but I don't know 
for sure. I have a retail copy of XP Pro and I installed that.

> I already know, that there might be some tweaks necessary to install XP
> on the R61, as e.g. enabling SATA compatibility mode,

Just checked my R61, the SATA setting is AHCI. IIRC there's a 
performance hit of you set SATA to Compatibility mode.

HTH,
Tony

I bought the Vista to XP downgrade CDs (originally Vista Business on a T60) 
and it was about 50 $ US.

"Tony Harding" <ToHard@nowhere.org> wrote in message 
news:wrSIi.653$GW.402@newsfe12.lga...
> Florian Zimmerer wrote:
>> Tony Harding schrieb:
>>> Florian Zimmerer wrote:
>>>> [about his plan to downgrade]
>>> Lenovo has a formal "downgrade to XP" program in the USA, which I took
>>> advantage of to take my R61 from Vista Business to XP Pro. No charge as
>>> I recall.
>>
>> This program should be available worldwide, right?
>
> So it says (check the bottom of the text):
>
>   Applicable countries and regions
> Worldwide
>
>>> 300 Euros? That's a fortune! Lenovo did charge me for a set of recovery
>
> I just checked an FX site for rates, at today's rate �300 = US$422, I 
> think I can buy a new laptop from Dell for that much.
>
>>> DVDs to restore my R61 back to Vista Business. I called before Lenovo
>>> had their downgrade program, so I installed XP Pro over Vista Business.
>>> I preserved the Service partition, thinking it was how I'd revert to
>>> Vista when the time comes. Wrong! Windows plays a role in implementing
>>> Lenovo's restore to factory configuration, so when I deleted Vista I
>>> killed the ability to use the Service partition I had preserved so
>>> carefully. Price was $45 US, plus tax, etc.
>>
>> You did not make a backup of your service partition prior to installing
>> XP? If I do, im going to save myself even these 45 bucks, right?
>
> Sorry I wasn't clear here - I did save the Service partition, but without 
> the hooks in Windows (Lenovo's Restore & Recovery) there's nothing to 
> invoke.
>
>>> Here's the text of the Lenovo page. which states it applies worldwide.
>>> It says the program will expire 31 July 2008. You need to revisit
>>> whoever wanted to charge you 300 Euros!
>>> [Text from Lenovos website deleted]
>>
>> Obviously they wanted to make me buy a full XP Prof license. Not going
>> to revisit that shop again!
>>
>> After reading the text from the Lenovo site my idea is the following:
>>
>> 1. Make a backup of the service partition of the R61, to be able to
>> revert to Vista Business whenever I need.
>
> You need a backup of your Vista installation. If you don't delete the 
> service partition, it will still be there after the XP install. No harm, 
> of course, in making a backup of it (something I encourage BTW).
>
>> 2. Make a backup of the service partition of the R52, to have a bootable
>> installation version of XP Professional.
>> 3. Install XP on the R61 using the Vista product key (if key needed?).
>
> I don't think the Vista key will help your XP install, but I don't know 
> for sure. I have a retail copy of XP Pro and I installed that.
>
>> I already know, that there might be some tweaks necessary to install XP
>> on the R61, as e.g. enabling SATA compatibility mode,
>
> Just checked my R61, the SATA setting is AHCI. IIRC there's a performance 
> hit of you set SATA to Compatibility mode.
>
> HTH,
> Tony
> 

John wrote:
> I bought the Vista to XP downgrade CDs (originally Vista Business on a T60) 
> and it was about 50 $ US.

Thanks, John, sounds familiar.

Ernie B. wrote:
>>
> Based on experience in replacing the hard drive in a R40...  I think it would 
> depend on the recovery CD that you would use.  Can you boot from the CD?  Is 
> the CD a clone, made with Norton Ghost or XXClone, or merely a copy?  If your 
> CD is a clone and you can boot from it then it should work.
> 
> Another possibility is to purchase an OEM version of the operating system you 
> prefer, see <http://www.oem-outlet.com/product.php?cat=1>.  Either install it 
> in a dual-boot configuration or remove Vista entirely.

I just picked up a R61i and I don't think much of the Vista Home Premium 
that came with it.  I don't think I will be eligible for the XP 
downgrade with this OS, but I'm going to try to talk to them.  I suppose 
if enough people tell them they don't like the OS, it may get their 
attention.

I bought a Dell desktop a few months ago and I had no problems getting 
it with XP installed.

If I can't get the downgrade disc, I assume I can set up a dual boot 
following some of the instructions on the net.  I assume I could erase 
Vista and install XP pro (OEM) and then go to Lenovo and and get all the 
drivers and utilities as XP seems like a supported operating system on 
this machine.  I have also considered picking up another hard drive and 
starting over.

Would it be reasonable to assume if I deleted Vista and installed XP and 
then someday I lose my mind and I want to try Vista again, doing a 
restore from the service partition would still possible?

Thanks for any insight.

John

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 20:13:06 -0600 Jworman wrote:

> I just picked up a R61i and I don't think much of the Vista Home Premium 
> that came with it.  I don't think I will be eligible for the XP 
> downgrade with this OS, but I'm going to try to talk to them.  I suppose 
> if enough people tell them they don't like the OS, it may get their 
> attention.
> 
It does no harm to try but I doubt that M$ will do more than issue a service 
pack and patches.  Maybe Lenovo will send you the necessary CD and 
instructions.

> I bought a Dell desktop a few months ago and I had no problems getting 
> it with XP installed.
> 
> If I can't get the downgrade disc, I assume I can set up a dual boot 
> following some of the instructions on the net.  I assume I could erase 
> Vista and install XP pro (OEM) and then go to Lenovo and and get all the 
> drivers and utilities as XP seems like a supported operating system on 
> this machine.  I have also considered picking up another hard drive and 
> starting over.
> 
> Would it be reasonable to assume if I deleted Vista and installed XP and 
> then someday I lose my mind and I want to try Vista again, doing a 
> restore from the service partition would still possible?
> 
If you can afford to do so, replace and store the hard drive with Vista 
installed.  Reverting to Vista would then be just a matter of swapping hard 
drives.  It should be possible to do what you suggest but I don't know for 
sure, ask Lenovo.

Good luck.
-- 
Ernie B.

Communication:  The art of moving an idea from one mind to another, hopefully 
without distortion.