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cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage

System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS


After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
AC adapter's green light is "on".

Any ideas?


0
Adam
10/15/2015 6:33:13 PM
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On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 1:42:18 PM UTC-5, Bob_Villa wrote:
> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 1:33:17 PM UTC-5, Adam wrote:
> > System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
> > Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
> > 
> > 
> > After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
> > ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
> > an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
> > AC adapter's green light is "on".
> > 
> > Any ideas?
> 
> Try removing the battery and holding the power button down for a few seconds...and then try another restart with it plugged-in (AC adapter).

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
0
Bob_Villa
10/15/2015 1:01:01 AM
Adam wrote:
> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
> AC adapter's green light is "on".

Have you removed both the power and the battery and held the power 
button down 45 sec -- followed by restoring power and powering on again?

-- 
Mike Easter
0
Mike
10/15/2015 6:40:40 PM
On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 1:33:17 PM UTC-5, Adam wrote:
> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
> 
> 
> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
> AC adapter's green light is "on".
> 
> Any ideas?

Try removing the battery and holding the power button down for a few seconds...and then try another restart with it plugged-in (AC adapter).
0
Bob_Villa
10/15/2015 6:42:17 PM
"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:d8aa99F4g4qU1@mid.individual.net...
> Adam wrote:
>> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>> AC adapter's green light is "on".
>
> Have you removed both the power and the battery and held the power button 
> down 45 sec -- followed by restoring power and powering on again?
>
> -- 
> Mike Easter


Thanks, I just tried removing all power source before
pressing the power button down for at least 45 sec followed by
restoring power sources (battery and AC adapter) but no luck.


0
Adam
10/15/2015 6:56:38 PM
"Bob_Villa" <pheeh.zero@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:56d7dd7b-1e2f-4309-917b-4606adda1243@googlegroups.com...
> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 1:42:18 PM UTC-5, Bob_Villa wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 1:33:17 PM UTC-5, Adam wrote:
>> > System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>> > Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>> >
>> >
>> > After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>> > ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>> > an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>> > AC adapter's green light is "on".
>> >
>> > Any ideas?
>>
>> Try removing the battery and holding the power button down for a few 
>> seconds...and then try another restart with it plugged-in (AC adapter).
>
> Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!


Huh?  That doesn't sound good.

Thanks, I just tried removing all power source before
pressing the power button down for at least 45 sec followed by
restoring power sources (battery and AC adapter) but no luck.


0
Adam
10/15/2015 6:59:53 PM
"Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote in message 
news:mvost7$pas$1@news.albasani.net...
>
> "Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:d8aa99F4g4qU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Adam wrote:
>>> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>>> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>>> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>>> AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>
>> Have you removed both the power and the battery and held the power button 
>> down 45 sec -- followed by restoring power and powering on again?
>>
>> -- 
>> Mike Easter
>
>
> Thanks, I just tried removing all power source before
> pressing the power button down for at least 45 sec followed by
> restoring power sources (battery and AC adapter) but no luck.
>


Can DVD drives be opened even if laptop is not powered "on"?
If so, the DVD drive is not opening.


0
Adam
10/15/2015 7:21:08 PM
Adam wrote:

>
> Can DVD drives be opened even if laptop is not powered "on"?
> If so, the DVD drive is not opening.
>
>

Depends on the drive. If with a caddy then there is little hole for a 
paperclip to push to mechanically open, else no.

-- 
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
0
Jonathan
10/15/2015 7:29:43 PM
"Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mvoun2$85j$1@dont-email.me...
> Adam wrote:
>
>>
>> Can DVD drives be opened even if laptop is not powered "on"?
>> If so, the DVD drive is not opening.
>>
>>
>
> Depends on the drive. If with a caddy then there is little hole for a 
> paperclip to push to mechanically open, else no.
>


Thanks, but I was testing to see if there is any power to laptop at all.


> -- 
> Take care,
>
> Jonathan
> -------------------
> LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
> http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com 


0
Adam
10/15/2015 7:36:54 PM
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700
"Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:

> 
> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
> 
> 
> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
> AC adapter's green light is "on".
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 

If you are lucky, there my be a fuse by the power jack inside the
laptop.
0
Johnny
10/15/2015 7:41:26 PM
"Johnny" <johnny@invalid.net> wrote in message 
news:20151015144126.0ec76453@jmspc...
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700
> "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>>
>>
>> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>> AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>
> If you are lucky, there may be a fuse by the power jack inside the
> laptop.


Thanks, do you mean the fuse may be blown and needs to be replaced?
If so, this is new territory for me so let me see if I can find a DIY 
article.


0
Adam
10/15/2015 7:56:54 PM
Adam wrote:
> "Johnny" <johnny@invalid.net> wrote in message
> news:20151015144126.0ec76453@jmspc...
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700
>> "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>>> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>>>
>>>
>>> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>>> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>>> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>>> AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>
>> If you are lucky, there may be a fuse by the power jack inside the
>> laptop.
>
>
> Thanks, do you mean the fuse may be blown and needs to be replaced?
> If so, this is new territory for me so let me see if I can find a DIY
> article.
>
>

1) Is the battery charged, Dell have a nice push button indicator on 
batter but I don't this Asus do.

2) If battery good but doesn't do anything...keyboard lights etc then 
you may have fried motherboard

3) If it boots with just the battery, but nothing with battery removed 
and just using the powercord/supply, then test power cord with meter.

If powercord/supply is good then your may have the input jack fuse 
blown. Not for the novice to fix. See images here of likely locations.

<https://www.google.com/search?q=asus+laptop+fuse+on+motherboard&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CB0QsARqFQoTCOmgw5WixcgCFYXXHgodKtIO4w&biw=1080&bih=859>

We are talking about soldering on the motherboard...

-- 
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
0
Jonathan
10/15/2015 8:08:08 PM
"Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote in message 
news:mvp0e7$k6$1@news.albasani.net...
>
> "Johnny" <johnny@invalid.net> wrote in message 
> news:20151015144126.0ec76453@jmspc...
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700
>> "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>>> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>>>
>>>
>>> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>>> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>>> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>>> AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>
>> If you are lucky, there may be a fuse by the power jack inside the
>> laptop.
>
>
> Thanks, do you mean the fuse may be blown and needs to be replaced?
> If so, this is new territory for me so let me see if I can find a DIY 
> article.
>


Found this article...

Laptop does not start. Is it bad power jack or motherboard?
http://www.insidemylaptop.com/laptop-does-not-start-bad-power-jack-motherboard/


Yikes!  Sounds like some dismantling/surgery may be required.    :-)


0
Adam
10/15/2015 8:21:22 PM
"Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mvp0v4$hq0$1@dont-email.me...
> Adam wrote:
>> "Johnny" <johnny@invalid.net> wrote in message
>> news:20151015144126.0ec76453@jmspc...
>>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700
>>> "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>>>> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>>>> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>>>> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>>>> AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you are lucky, there may be a fuse by the power jack inside the
>>> laptop.
>>
>>
>> Thanks, do you mean the fuse may be blown and needs to be replaced?
>> If so, this is new territory for me so let me see if I can find a DIY
>> article.
>>
>
> 1) Is the battery charged, Dell have a nice push button indicator on 
> battery but I don't this Asus do.
>


Thanks, if AC adapter is plugged in, does battery charged matter as much?

Here's the ASUS N61JQ User Manual...
http://www.lpmanual.com/manuals/asus/ASUS_N61Jq.pdf

Doesn't seem like the ASUS N61JQ has a push button indicator on battery.


> 2) If battery good but doesn't do anything...keyboard lights etc then you 
> may have fried motherboard
>

I don't recall ever seeing lights (keyboard, etc.) when
system is not powered "on".

I hope nothing is fried.


> 3) If it boots with just the battery, but nothing with battery removed and 
> just using the powercord/supply, then test power cord with meter.
>

Not my case/scenario.


> If powercord/supply is good then your may have the input jack fuse blown. 
> Not for the novice to fix. See images here of likely locations.
>

Don't know yet.  Need to make access first.  Why me?    :-)


> <https://www.google.com/search?q=asus+laptop+fuse+on+motherboard&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CB0QsARqFQoTCOmgw5WixcgCFYXXHgodKtIO4w&biw=1080&bih=859>
>
> We are talking about soldering on the motherboard...
>

Soldering?  No way.  Not me.    :-)


> -- 
> Take care,
>
> Jonathan
> -------------------
> LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
> http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com 


0
Adam
10/15/2015 8:42:02 PM
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:

>
>System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>
>
>After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>AC adapter's green light is "on".
>
>Any ideas?
>
  I did a simple google search...

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ASUS+N61JQ+power+requirement

It yielded listings for where to get replacement 90W adapters, but
scrolling down the page shows a lot of chatroom queries surrounding
problems with this particular laptop and its batteries and power supply.

  It also lists the circumstances under which the failure modes are
occurring.

  It would appear that the battery "watchdog" circuitry Asus
incorporated into at least this model of their laptop line has some
problems.

  A slight dip in the output of the power adapter or even too much
ripple voltage presented by it when loaded may be what is going on.

  The new ones seemed to only be $12 to $15.  It might cause less hair
loss to simply get a new one.  It is always nice to have backup power
supplies in the "dongle" or "wallwart" realm anyway, since most are
ultrasonically sealed and unserviceable.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/16/2015 12:11:35 PM
Adam wrote:
> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
> 
> 
> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
> AC adapter's green light is "on".
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 

The attachments in this thread may help.

"ASUS N61JQ won't start"
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42461

You need an account to access the attachments. The
mainboard schematic is for a member of the same family,
but might not be exactly the same as your mainboard.
(The circuit may use different component values for
65W versus 90W designs.)

The first MOSFET (one circled on a schematic page),
is an inrush limiter. If the AC adapter is "hot" and then
plugged into the barrel connector, a lot of current
would flow for a short period of time. Instead, the
inrush limiter gradually turns on the power, using an RC
circuit tied to the gate. And the inrush limiter
prevents the overcurrent inside the AC adapter
from getting tripped.

I don't see a fuse in that schematic. It's possible
if a fuse is present, it sits in front of a clamp diode.
If, somehow, reverse bias is applied to the barrel
of the power connector, the clamp diode starts to
conduct (protecting the motherboard). The fuse would be
there, so the clamp diode doesn't burn out. Otherwise,
the AC adapter has its own current limiting inside
the adapter, so doesn't really need a fuse at the
motherboard level.

What I learned from that thread, is "look for burned stuff" :-)
That's better than trying to decode that schematic...

    Paul
0
Paul
10/16/2015 1:23:15 PM
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message 
news:vup12b9iqlrmin16noqdrtlhmcll1p8sbv@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>
>>
>>System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>>Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>>
>>
>>After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>>ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>>an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>>AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>
>>Any ideas?
>>
>
>  I did a simple google search...
>
> https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ASUS+N61JQ+power+requirement
>
> It yielded listings for where to get replacement 90W adapters, but
> scrolling down the page shows a lot of chatroom queries surrounding
> problems with this particular laptop and its batteries and power supply.
>
>  It also lists the circumstances under which the failure modes are
> occurring.
>
>  It would appear that the battery "watchdog" circuitry Asus
> incorporated into at least this model of their laptop line has some
> problems.
>
>  A slight dip in the output of the power adapter or even too much
> ripple voltage presented by it when loaded may be what is going on.
>
>  The new ones seemed to only be $12 to $15.  It might cause less hair
> loss to simply get a new one.  It is always nice to have backup power
> supplies in the "dongle" or "wallwart" realm anyway, since most are
> ultrasonically sealed and unserviceable.

Thanks, are you referring to the AC adapter or the battery pack?


0
Adam
10/16/2015 4:19:40 PM
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message 
news:mvqtk5$9uj$1@dont-email.me...
> Adam wrote:
>> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>>
>>
>> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>> AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>
> The attachments in this thread may help.
>
> "ASUS N61JQ won't start"
> http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42461
>

Thanks (Guru Paul), that's such a cool website.


> You need an account to access the attachments. The
> mainboard schematic is for a member of the same family,
> but might not be exactly the same as your mainboard.
> (The circuit may use different component values for
> 65W versus 90W designs.)
>
> The first MOSFET (one circled on a schematic page),
> is an inrush limiter. If the AC adapter is "hot" and then

If "hot" means to the touch,
I just felt the ASUS AC adapter and
it does not even feel warm.

For comparison, I also felt my DELL AC adapter and
it feels warm (but not hot).

Both laptops are not powered "on".

So, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroWhat (haha) may be onto something.
Sorry, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno, I couldn't resist.    :-)

Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
Fry's?  Radio Shack?  Other?


> plugged into the barrel connector, a lot of current
> would flow for a short period of time. Instead, the
> inrush limiter gradually turns on the power, using an RC
> circuit tied to the gate. And the inrush limiter
> prevents the overcurrent inside the AC adapter
> from getting tripped.
>
> I don't see a fuse in that schematic. It's possible
> if a fuse is present, it sits in front of a clamp diode.
> If, somehow, reverse bias is applied to the barrel
> of the power connector, the clamp diode starts to
> conduct (protecting the motherboard). The fuse would be
> there, so the clamp diode doesn't burn out. Otherwise,
> the AC adapter has its own current limiting inside
> the adapter, so doesn't really need a fuse at the
> motherboard level.
>
> What I learned from that thread, is "look for burned stuff" :-)
> That's better than trying to decode that schematic...
>
>    Paul

I haven't disassembled the laptop yet but nothing smells burnt.


0
Adam
10/16/2015 4:37:10 PM
On 2015-10-16, Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
> Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
> Fry's?  Radio Shack?  Other?

ebay. 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny
0
Marek
10/16/2015 4:39:10 PM
"Marek Novotny" <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote in message 
news:2POdnSCQEvGytbzLnZ2dnUVZ5qidnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 2015-10-16, Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>> Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
>> Fry's?  Radio Shack?  Other?
>
> ebay.

I had bad experience with eBay.
Seller asked me to return an item (a video card) but
did not give me a refund.


>
> -- 
> Marek Novotny
> https://github.com/marek-novotny 


0
Adam
10/16/2015 5:19:45 PM
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:10 -0700
Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2015-10-16, Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
> > Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
> > Fry's?  Radio Shack?  Other?
> 
> ebay. 
> 
China.

Seriously, sometimes it is ridiculously cheap and quick to shop
directly (online) in China (Caveat Emptor).  I got replacement batteries
for my PengPod in less than a week for less than I would have paid
locally /IF/ they had even been available, which they were not.

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
Nice computers don't go down.
	Larry Niven, Steven Barnes
		"The Barsoom Project"
0
Cybe
10/16/2015 7:47:02 PM
In comp.sys.laptops Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard@wizardstower.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:10 -0700
> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-10-16, Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>> > Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
>> > Fry's?  Radio Shack?  Other?
>> 
>> ebay. 
>> 
> China.
> 
> Seriously, sometimes it is ridiculously cheap and quick to shop
> directly (online) in China (Caveat Emptor).  I got replacement batteries
> for my PengPod in less than a week for less than I would have paid
> locally /IF/ they had even been available, which they were not.

Though it should be noted that you take your life into your hands with
some of the cheap power supplies that come out of that country, not to
mention the life of your equipment. Poor rectification, filtering,
regulation etc. threaten your stuff, dirt cheap components and track
spacing (distance between mains and low voltage parts on the circuit
board) threaten your life if it picks the wrong time to go wrong.

That said, if there's suspicion that the original ASUS power supply
had issues as well, I'm not sure exactly what to recommend without
looking into it deeper.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#
0
not
10/16/2015 11:18:40 PM
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:18:40 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

>Though it should be noted that you take your life into your hands with
>some of the cheap power supplies that come out of that country, not to
>mention the life of your equipment. 

  You would have a hard time finding supplies in the COTS market these
days that were not made there.  So you must not be as all nerded up as
you would like folks to think.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/17/2015 12:17:54 AM
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:18:40 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

>That said, if there's suspicion that the original ASUS power supply
>had issues as well, I'm not sure exactly what to recommend without
>looking into it deeper.

  Just where is it you think ASUS gets their supplies made?
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/17/2015 12:18:40 AM
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message 
news:vup12b9iqlrmin16noqdrtlhmcll1p8sbv@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>
>>
>>System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>>Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>>
>>
>>After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>>ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>>an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>>AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>
>>Any ideas?
>>
>  I did a simple google search...
>
> https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ASUS+N61JQ+power+requirement
>
> It yielded listings for where to get replacement 90W adapters, but
> scrolling down the page shows a lot of chatroom queries surrounding
> problems with this particular laptop and its batteries and power supply.
>
>  It also lists the circumstances under which the failure modes are
> occurring.
>
>  It would appear that the battery "watchdog" circuitry Asus
> incorporated into at least this model of their laptop line has some
> problems.
>
>  A slight dip in the output of the power adapter or even too much
> ripple voltage presented by it when loaded may be what is going on.
>
>  The new ones seemed to only be $12 to $15.  It might cause less hair
> loss to simply get a new one.  It is always nice to have backup power
> supplies in the "dongle" or "wallwart" realm anyway, since most are
> ultrasonically sealed and unserviceable.

Thanks (NumeroUno), you're right.  A new AC adapter did the trick.
Nothing else seems to be wrong with my laptop.

But, the reviews for the Antec NP90 that I bought is not that great and
was not cheap ($40+).  But, it has AQ3 (3-year parts & labor) warranty.
Any Universal 90W Notebook Power Adapter 19V recommendations?

Also, how can I prevent this from happening again?
The problem is with the power circuitry internal to the ASUS laptop, right?


0
Adam
10/17/2015 3:13:29 AM
"Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote in message 
news:mvsecr$kpt$1@news.albasani.net...
>
> "DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message 
> news:vup12b9iqlrmin16noqdrtlhmcll1p8sbv@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>>
>>>
>>>System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>>>Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>>>
>>>
>>>After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>>>ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>>>an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>>>AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>>
>>>Any ideas?
>>>
>>  I did a simple google search...
>>
>> https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ASUS+N61JQ+power+requirement
>>
>> It yielded listings for where to get replacement 90W adapters, but
>> scrolling down the page shows a lot of chatroom queries surrounding
>> problems with this particular laptop and its batteries and power supply.
>>
>>  It also lists the circumstances under which the failure modes are
>> occurring.
>>
>>  It would appear that the battery "watchdog" circuitry Asus
>> incorporated into at least this model of their laptop line has some
>> problems.
>>
>>  A slight dip in the output of the power adapter or even too much
>> ripple voltage presented by it when loaded may be what is going on.
>>
>>  The new ones seemed to only be $12 to $15.  It might cause less hair
>> loss to simply get a new one.  It is always nice to have backup power
>> supplies in the "dongle" or "wallwart" realm anyway, since most are
>> ultrasonically sealed and unserviceable.
>
> Thanks (NumeroUno), you're right.  A new AC adapter did the trick.
> Nothing else seems to be wrong with my laptop.
>
> But, the reviews for the Antec NP90 that I bought is not that great and
> was not cheap ($40+).  But, it has AQ3 (3-year parts & labor) warranty.
> Any Universal 90W Notebook Power Adapter 19V recommendations?

More info ... the Antec NP90 gets quite "hot", which is a bit worrisome.
But, good news is that the battery pack seems to be in good condition.
It took about 45 minutes to fully charge.  And, battery feels cool to the 
touch,
which is good to have as little heat as possible.


>
> Also, how can I prevent this from happening again?
> The problem is with the power circuitry internal to the ASUS laptop, 
> right?
>


0
Adam
10/17/2015 4:05:31 AM
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 20:13:29 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:

>Any Universal 90W Notebook Power Adapter 19V recommendations?

  The Lenovo 90 Watt unit is nice, but you would have to put the right
output plug onto it.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/17/2015 5:00:42 AM
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 20:13:29 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:

>The problem is with the power circuitry internal to the ASUS laptop, right?

  From what I was reading, that seems to be the case.

  Likely no fix other than to feed it with good, clean DC power.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/17/2015 5:03:57 AM
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 21:05:31 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:

snip
>>
>> Also, how can I prevent this from happening again?
>> The problem is with the power circuitry internal to the ASUS laptop, 
>> right?
>>
>
  Probably got warm topping off the battery, and you probably had the
unit up and running at the same time.

Could be lower power than it is actually rated, OR it could actually be
doing a better job and is exhibiting more heat due to the heavier
initial charge cycle while running.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/17/2015 5:07:10 AM
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message 
news:38k32b1ogfs19c7grs8o28k7c24rf4b2ue@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 20:13:29 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>
>>Any Universal 90W Notebook Power Adapter 19V recommendations?
>
>  The Lenovo 90 Watt unit is nice, but you would have to put the right
> output plug onto it.

I'm surprise that they don't have that ac adapter plug connector better 
standardized.


0
Adam
10/17/2015 6:03:30 AM
Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:10 -0700
> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-10-16, Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>> > Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
>> > Fry's?  Radio Shack?  Other?
>> 
>> ebay.
>> 
> China.
> 
> Seriously, sometimes it is ridiculously cheap and quick to shop
> directly (online) in China (Caveat Emptor).  I got replacement
> batteries for my PengPod in less than a week for less than I would
> have paid locally /IF/ they had even been available, which they were
> not.
> 
> Cybe R. Wizard

Depends on what you need.  If you need something heavy and simple, like 
a splitting wedge, you might have to buy them by the ton.  But yes, 
there is a lot of stuff available directly that's difficult to find 
elsewhere, and almost always significantly less costly.  It also gives 
you a chance to experience "inventive packaging", for example I bought a 
12v pressure sprayer and when it arrived it was packaged mostly in tape 
instead of being boxed. <g>

-- 
http://totally-portable-software.blogspot.com [updated: too long ago]
0
crankypuss
10/17/2015 10:01:53 AM
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:03:30 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:

>
>"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message 
>news:38k32b1ogfs19c7grs8o28k7c24rf4b2ue@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 20:13:29 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>>
>>>Any Universal 90W Notebook Power Adapter 19V recommendations?
>>
>>  The Lenovo 90 Watt unit is nice, but you would have to put the right
>> output plug onto it.
>
>I'm surprise that they don't have that ac adapter plug connector better 
>standardized.
>

  They are standardized, but the maker gets to choose the one they want
to use, and the plugs/jacks are not tied to a specific voltage to be
fed, though there was a push toward that end in the beginning of the
standard.

  They are in metric and Lenovo uses the biggest I've seen, and likely
the right one for 19 Volts, but the other 19 V laptop makers might argue
against that statement since most of them adopted a slightly smaller
choice.

 So, there is a standard for the plug sizes and center pin diameters,
but they are not tied to or standardized against a table of voltages.

  There are 5 and 12 volt "typical" choices, but they too are not set in
stone.

  AND 19 Volts is a non-standard (as it were) DC supply source, so there
is no plug size designated for it at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIAJ_connector
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/17/2015 12:19:42 PM
On 10/16/2015 11:13 PM, Adam wrote:
> "DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message
> news:vup12b9iqlrmin16noqdrtlhmcll1p8sbv@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>>
>>>
>>> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>>> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>>>
>>>
>>> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>>> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>>> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>>> AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>   I did a simple google search...
>>
>> https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ASUS+N61JQ+power+requirement
>>
>> It yielded listings for where to get replacement 90W adapters, but
>> scrolling down the page shows a lot of chatroom queries surrounding
>> problems with this particular laptop and its batteries and power supply.
>>
>>   It also lists the circumstances under which the failure modes are
>> occurring.
>>
>>   It would appear that the battery "watchdog" circuitry Asus
>> incorporated into at least this model of their laptop line has some
>> problems.
>>
>>   A slight dip in the output of the power adapter or even too much
>> ripple voltage presented by it when loaded may be what is going on.
>>
>>   The new ones seemed to only be $12 to $15.  It might cause less hair
>> loss to simply get a new one.  It is always nice to have backup power
>> supplies in the "dongle" or "wallwart" realm anyway, since most are
>> ultrasonically sealed and unserviceable.
>
> Thanks (NumeroUno), you're right.  A new AC adapter did the trick.
> Nothing else seems to be wrong with my laptop.
>
> But, the reviews for the Antec NP90 that I bought is not that great and
> was not cheap ($40+).  But, it has AQ3 (3-year parts & labor) warranty.
> Any Universal 90W Notebook Power Adapter 19V recommendations?
>
> Also, how can I prevent this from happening again?
> The problem is with the power circuitry internal to the ASUS laptop, right?
>
>
  Take a look;

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ASUS+N61JQ++ac+adaptor

http://tinyurl.com/nkdjajy

-- 
Caver1
0
Caver1
10/17/2015 1:48:17 PM
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:48:17 -0400, Caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> Gave
us:

snip

  This one is 135 Watts.  Would (may) only need an output plug
changeout.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012HW5A9O

  And no, the wattage does not have to match the original.  More is
better.  It is just a declaration of what the supply is able to provide.
Your device still uses only what it uses.  It merely has a better
likelihood of providing a cleaner DC feed, and exhibiting less heat
while doing so.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/17/2015 2:01:50 PM
"Caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> wrote in message 
news:mvtjf4$2u6$1@dont-email.me...
> On 10/16/2015 11:13 PM, Adam wrote:
>> "DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in 
>> message
>> news:vup12b9iqlrmin16noqdrtlhmcll1p8sbv@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:13 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
>>>> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
>>>> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
>>>> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
>>>> AC adapter's green light is "on".
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>   I did a simple google search...
>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ASUS+N61JQ+power+requirement
>>>
>>> It yielded listings for where to get replacement 90W adapters, but
>>> scrolling down the page shows a lot of chatroom queries surrounding
>>> problems with this particular laptop and its batteries and power supply.
>>>
>>>   It also lists the circumstances under which the failure modes are
>>> occurring.
>>>
>>>   It would appear that the battery "watchdog" circuitry Asus
>>> incorporated into at least this model of their laptop line has some
>>> problems.
>>>
>>>   A slight dip in the output of the power adapter or even too much
>>> ripple voltage presented by it when loaded may be what is going on.
>>>
>>>   The new ones seemed to only be $12 to $15.  It might cause less hair
>>> loss to simply get a new one.  It is always nice to have backup power
>>> supplies in the "dongle" or "wallwart" realm anyway, since most are
>>> ultrasonically sealed and unserviceable.
>>
>> Thanks (NumeroUno), you're right.  A new AC adapter did the trick.
>> Nothing else seems to be wrong with my laptop.
>>
>> But, the reviews for the Antec NP90 that I bought is not that great and
>> was not cheap ($40+).  But, it has AQ3 (3-year parts & labor) warranty.
>> Any Universal 90W Notebook Power Adapter 19V recommendations?
>>
>> Also, how can I prevent this from happening again?
>> The problem is with the power circuitry internal to the ASUS laptop, 
>> right?
>>
>>
>  Take a look;
>
> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ASUS+N61JQ++ac+adaptor
>
> http://tinyurl.com/nkdjajy
>
> -- 
> Caver1

Thanks, I was looking at...

Targus 90 Watt AC Laptop Charger
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0054JE64I/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1BWZY6SABP0P&coliid=ISTHDUL7IAZ9E

But, I like the PWR+ more. 


0
Adam
10/17/2015 4:07:58 PM
Adam wrote:
> Thanks, I was looking at...
>
> Targus 90 Watt AC Laptop Charger

What is your diagnostic plan?  You don't know that your charger is bad 
yet.  Are you planning on buying a spare charger for testing purposes, 
then make more/other diagnostic efforts if that isn't the problem?


-- 
Mike Easter
0
Mike
10/17/2015 5:22:45 PM
"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:d8fef5Feec6U1@mid.individual.net...
> Adam wrote:
>> Thanks, I was looking at...
>>
>> Targus 90 Watt AC Laptop Charger
>
> What is your diagnostic plan?  You don't know that your charger is bad 
> yet.  Are you planning on buying a spare charger for testing purposes, 
> then make more/other diagnostic efforts if that isn't the problem?

Did you miss my 8:13 PM response to DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno?
The problem was the power outage killed the ASUS AC adapter somehow.
The laptop works fine with a new/trial AC adapter.


>
> -- 
> Mike Easter 


0
Adam
10/17/2015 6:39:56 PM
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message 
news:s6f42bdrv5396tfmfqpl4imrjo6e896ejq@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:03:30 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>
>>
>>"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message
>>news:38k32b1ogfs19c7grs8o28k7c24rf4b2ue@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 20:13:29 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>>>
>>>>Any Universal 90W Notebook Power Adapter 19V recommendations?
>>>
>>>  The Lenovo 90 Watt unit is nice, but you would have to put the right
>>> output plug onto it.
>>
>>I'm surprise that they don't have that ac adapter plug connector better
>>standardized.
>>
>
>  They are standardized, but the maker gets to choose the one they want
> to use, and the plugs/jacks are not tied to a specific voltage to be
> fed, though there was a push toward that end in the beginning of the
> standard.
>
>  They are in metric and Lenovo uses the biggest I've seen, and likely
> the right one for 19 Volts, but the other 19 V laptop makers might argue
> against that statement since most of them adopted a slightly smaller
> choice.
>
> So, there is a standard for the plug sizes and center pin diameters,
> but they are not tied to or standardized against a table of voltages.
>
>  There are 5 and 12 volt "typical" choices, but they too are not set in
> stone.
>
>  AND 19 Volts is a non-standard (as it were) DC supply source, so there
> is no plug size designated for it at all.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIAJ_connector

Thanks, maybe I'm missing something but
if desktops can be so nicely standardized,
I don't see why laptop PSUs can't be standardized
in a similar manner.


0
Adam
10/17/2015 7:04:34 PM
Adam wrote:
> "Mike Easter"
>> Adam wrote:
>>>
>>> Targus 90 Watt AC Laptop Charger
>>
>> What is your diagnostic plan?

> Did you miss my 8:13 PM response to DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno?

Yes.

> The problem was the power outage killed the ASUS AC adapter somehow.
> The laptop works fine with a new/trial AC adapter.

Excellent.  That is an economic fix.


-- 
Mike Easter
0
Mike
10/17/2015 7:21:56 PM
"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:d8flekFg6rtU1@mid.individual.net...
> Adam wrote:
>> "Mike Easter"
>>> Adam wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Targus 90 Watt AC Laptop Charger
>>>
>>> What is your diagnostic plan?
>
>> Did you miss my 8:13 PM response to DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno?
>
> Yes.
>
>> The problem was the power outage killed the ASUS AC adapter somehow.
>> The laptop works fine with a new/trial AC adapter.
>
> Excellent.  That is an economic fix.

Thanks, yes, I'm super glad that the laptop is fine.
Now, I'm looking for a "quality" AC adapter with all features (L-shaped 
plug/jack,
3-prong wall jack, LED indicator, long warranty, etc.) that I prefer.
I don't mind the cost so much as the features.
It's worth the investment.


>
> -- 
> Mike Easter 


0
Adam
10/17/2015 7:36:43 PM
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:36:43 -0700
"Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:

> It's worth the investment.

Cost.

It's worth the cost or the price.  An investment has some slim hope of
returning something of value later on, usually money.

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
Nice computers don't go down.
	Larry Niven, Steven Barnes
		"The Barsoom Project"
0
Cybe
10/18/2015 1:43:49 AM
In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:18:40 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:10 -0700
> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-10-16, Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>> > Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
>> > Fry's?  Radio Shack?  Other?
>>
>>>>> ebay.
>>>>
>>>> China.
>>>>
>>> Seriously, sometimes it is ridiculously cheap and quick to shop
>>> directly (online) in China (Caveat Emptor).  I got replacement batteries
>>> for my PengPod in less than a week for less than I would have paid
>>> locally  IF  they had even been available, which they were not.
>>> 
>>Though it should be noted that you take your life into your hands with
>>some of the cheap power supplies that come out of that country, not to
>>mention the life of your equipment. 
> 
> You would have a hard time finding supplies in the COTS market these
> days that were not made there.  So you must not be as all nerded up as
> you would like folks to think.

As I read the thread, the recommendation was for the OP to buy a power
supply directly from China via an Ebay listing. Fake OEM power
supplies as well as honest knock-offs from China litter Ebay listings
for replacement power supplies and many have the issues I mentioned.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#
0
not
10/18/2015 2:29:27 AM
In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:18:40 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
> 
>>That said, if there's suspicion that the original ASUS power supply
>>had issues as well, I'm not sure exactly what to recommend without
>>looking into it deeper.
> 
>  Just where is it you think ASUS gets their supplies made?

Probably China, but ASUS should have some control over the design
and manufacture. Knock-offs bought directly from China may not have
been adiquately designed for the application, and most likely
haven't got the electrical safety certifications required in the
destination country.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#
0
not
10/18/2015 2:32:43 AM
In comp.sys.laptops Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, maybe I'm missing something but
> if desktops can be so nicely standardized,
> I don't see why laptop PSUs can't be standardized
> in a similar manner.

Probably because there's little commercial incentive, and as the
laptop power connector is going to be exposed to your average
"idiot user" even a voltage to plug standard wouldn't prevent
someone having trouble because they try to use their 12V 4.5A
laptop with the 12V 4A power supply from their old one. There'd
have to be a long list of probably tens of power connectors
designed for the different current ratings and voltages, or
an electronic system for identifying the right power supply
(I think some laptops might do this, but there's no industry
standard).

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#
0
not
10/18/2015 2:56:21 AM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:29:27 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

>In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:18:40 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
>> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:10 -0700
>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-10-16, Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>>> > Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
>>> > Fry's?  Radio Shack?  Other?
>>>
>>>>>> ebay.
>>>>>
>>>>> China.
>>>>>
>>>> Seriously, sometimes it is ridiculously cheap and quick to shop
>>>> directly (online) in China (Caveat Emptor).  I got replacement batteries
>>>> for my PengPod in less than a week for less than I would have paid
>>>> locally  IF  they had even been available, which they were not.
>>>> 
>>>Though it should be noted that you take your life into your hands with
>>>some of the cheap power supplies that come out of that country, not to
>>>mention the life of your equipment. 
>> 
>> You would have a hard time finding supplies in the COTS market these
>> days that were not made there.  So you must not be as all nerded up as
>> you would like folks to think.
>
>As I read the thread, the recommendation was for the OP to buy a power
>supply directly from China via an Ebay listing. Fake OEM power
>supplies as well as honest knock-offs from China litter Ebay listings
>for replacement power supplies and many have the issues I mentioned.

  Even legitimate, direct from the maker supplies are made IN CHINA.

  Jeez, can you really be that much in the dark?
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 3:07:01 AM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:32:43 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

>Probably China, but ASUS should have some control over the design
>and manufacture.

  No.  The chinese ps makers have their own engineers and are the best
at it after decades of doing it (literally), and ASUS picks one from
their lines and has several M of them made, and they only thing they get
that is custom is the labeling and a guarantee that they will not kill
(read stop producing) the model.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 3:09:45 AM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:32:43 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

> Knock-offs bought directly from China may not have
>been adiquately designed for the application, 

  Nobody said anything about buying a false branded "knock-off".

 There are literally hundreds of ps makers who make good products and
they do not need a brand sticker to guarantee tagged performance.  That
is what CE and TUV and UL certs are for.  And YES, they ARE valid cert
declarations.

  Sheesh.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 3:11:59 AM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:56:21 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

>In comp.sys.laptops Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, maybe I'm missing something but
>> if desktops can be so nicely standardized,
>> I don't see why laptop PSUs can't be standardized
>> in a similar manner.
>
>Probably because there's little commercial incentive, and as the
>laptop power connector is going to be exposed to your average
>"idiot user" even a voltage to plug standard wouldn't prevent
>someone having trouble because they try to use their 12V 4.5A
>laptop with the 12V 4A power supply from their old one.

  So what?  Supplies are rarely chosen to be fully taxed at their rated
output, and it is in fact dangerous to put one into a design that is.

  So picking one that puts out slightly less than the original is nearly
always ok as long as it does not present too much ripple at its rated
output.

> There'd
>have to be a long list of probably tens of power connectors
>designed for the different current ratings and voltages,

  You obviously did not examine the link I posted about the current,
most commonly used standard DC connector series.  Much less know
anything about it.

> or
>an electronic system for identifying the right power supply

  Huh?  A PC with a 250 W supply can operate just as good as if you
place a 1000W supply on it.  They BOTH provide the same standard  ATX
voltages.  The PC does not suddenly puke because a more capable supply
was placed on the system.  The system is the load, and the load does not
magically change just because you changed the supply.

>(I think some laptops might do this, but there's no industry
>standard).

  Laptops test voltage because battery charging circuits require a
minimum spec to operate without puking before their basic MTBF time.
If the voltage is too low and they did not test, they would run too hot
trying to provide the right charging voltage to the battery, which is
higher than the battery's topped off full voltage level.

  Non-battery driven devices typically do not have a watchdog circuit in
them.

  Although a good ATX power supply has circuits to shut down the supply
when it senses a current surge on some of the rails after it has been
brought up.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 3:22:07 AM
In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:56:21 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
> 
>>In comp.sys.laptops Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, maybe I'm missing something but
>>> if desktops can be so nicely standardized,
>>> I don't see why laptop PSUs can't be standardized
>>> in a similar manner.
>>
>>Probably because there's little commercial incentive, and as the
>>laptop power connector is going to be exposed to your average
>>"idiot user" even a voltage to plug standard wouldn't prevent
>>someone having trouble because they try to use their 12V 4.5A
>>laptop with the 12V 4A power supply from their old one.
> 
>  So what?  Supplies are rarely chosen to be fully taxed at their rated
> output, and it is in fact dangerous to put one into a design that is.

Sigh, OK make my example 12V 4A and 12V 7A then. You don't want to have
users eating into the safety margin anyway.

>  So picking one that puts out slightly less than the original is nearly
> always ok as long as it does not present too much ripple at its rated
> output.
> 
>> There'd
>>have to be a long list of probably tens of power connectors
>>designed for the different current ratings and voltages,
> 
>  You obviously did not examine the link I posted about the current,
> most commonly used standard DC connector series.  Much less know
> anything about it.

True, I thought it was a reference for what you said about 19V power
because of where you placed it in your post. But it does not prevent
miss-matching current ratings (which is what the "tens" of different
connectors would be for) and is not standard across all laptops.

>> or
>>an electronic system for identifying the right power supply
> 
>  Huh?  A PC with a 250 W supply can operate just as good as if you
> place a 1000W supply on it.  They BOTH provide the same standard  ATX
> voltages.  The PC does not suddenly puke because a more capable supply
> was placed on the system.  The system is the load, and the load does not
> magically change just because you changed the supply.

The right power supply is one with a high enough current rating. It is to
prevent the laptop equivalent of someone putting in a 250W desktop PSU to
replace a 1000W one.

>>(I think some laptops might do this, but there's no industry
>>standard).
> 
>  Laptops test voltage because battery charging circuits require a
> minimum spec to operate without puking before their basic MTBF time.
> If the voltage is too low and they did not test, they would run too hot
> trying to provide the right charging voltage to the battery, which is
> higher than the battery's topped off full voltage level.
> 
>  Non-battery driven devices typically do not have a watchdog circuit in
> them.
> 
>  Although a good ATX power supply has circuits to shut down the supply
> when it senses a current surge on some of the rails after it has been
> brought up.

Laptop PSUs should have current limiting in them too, but if a laptop
is on the edge of the maximum current from a PSU, then it could shut
down intermittently or have other problems, the cause of which may not
be clear to the user.

-- 
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0
not
10/18/2015 3:40:20 AM
In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:29:27 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
> 
>>In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:18:40 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
>>> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
>>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:10 -0700
>>> Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-10-16, Adam <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>>>> > Where's the best chance of getting a compatible AC adapter?
>>>> > Fry's?  Radio Shack?  Other?
>>>>
>>>>>>> ebay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> China.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Seriously, sometimes it is ridiculously cheap and quick to shop
>>>>> directly (online) in China (Caveat Emptor).  I got replacement batteries
>>>>> for my PengPod in less than a week for less than I would have paid
>>>>> locally  IF  they had even been available, which they were not.
>>>>> 
>>>>Though it should be noted that you take your life into your hands with
>>>>some of the cheap power supplies that come out of that country, not to
>>>>mention the life of your equipment. 
>>> 
>>> You would have a hard time finding supplies in the COTS market these
>>> days that were not made there.  So you must not be as all nerded up as
>>> you would like folks to think.
>>
>>As I read the thread, the recommendation was for the OP to buy a power
>>supply directly from China via an Ebay listing. Fake OEM power
>>supplies as well as honest knock-offs from China litter Ebay listings
>>for replacement power supplies and many have the issues I mentioned.
> 
>  Even legitimate, direct from the maker supplies are made IN CHINA.
> 
>  Jeez, can you really be that much in the dark?

Of course not, I'm making it clear that I'm talking about the cheap
power supplies advertised on EBAY in China, most of which are not
genuine OEM products, regardless of whether the genuine OEM product
is also made in China.

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0
not
10/18/2015 3:42:46 AM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:40:20 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

>Laptop PSUs should have current limiting in them too,

  I did not say a damned thing about current limiting.

  It is surge sensing.  If your PC is up with its 1000W supply only
using 250W of it, and you try to add a hard drive while it is live, you
can cause the entire supply to shut down, even though the HD and all of
its inrush only taxed the rail a few more watts.  It can also happen
merely adding a CD or DVD reader as well.  It is the change it senses,
even if well below its max capacity.

  Hot swap supplies do not do this function.  ATX supplies do.  That is
why they are so hard to use as a bench supply.

> but if a laptop
>is on the edge of the maximum current from a PSU, then it could shut
>down intermittently or have other problems, the cause of which may not
>be clear to the user.

  Hardly a difference one would experience in your example of a mere 0.5
amp differential.  Now try to move the goal posts again.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 3:50:47 AM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:42:46 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

>Of course not, I'm making it clear that I'm talking about the cheap
>power supplies advertised on EBAY in China, most of which are not
>genuine OEM products, regardless of whether the genuine OEM product
>is also made in China.

  I never said a damned thing about using a supply that has been falsely
labeled as an OEM replacement.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 3:52:59 AM
In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:32:43 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
>
>>Probably China, but ASUS should have some control over the design
>>and manufacture.
>
>  No.  The chinese ps makers have their own engineers and are the best
> at it after decades of doing it (literally), and ASUS picks one from
> their lines and has several M of them made, and they only thing they get
> that is custom is the labeling and a guarantee that they will not kill
> (read stop producing) the model.

Then that's the control ASUS have over the design and manufacture of
their power supplies. Cheap ones from Ebay do not have the assurance
of that approval by the laptop manufacturer.

>> Knock-offs bought directly from China may not have
>>been adiquately designed for the application, 
> 
>  Nobody said anything about buying a false branded "knock-off".
> 
> There are literally hundreds of ps makers who make good products and
> they do not need a brand sticker to guarantee tagged performance.  That
> is what CE and TUV and UL certs are for.  And YES, they ARE valid cert
> declarations.
> 
>  Sheesh.

Some of the laptop power supplies on Ebay are fake OEM products, I
should have said "third party" instead of knock-off, but I meant ones
that are not OEM branded. Either way, there is little assurance that
the design is sound and truely approved. There are plenty of poor
charger designs, some with fake certifications, shown in teardowns
on the web.

-- 
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#_ < |\| |< _#
0
not
10/18/2015 3:53:15 AM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:53:15 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

>In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:32:43 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
>> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
>>
>>>Probably China, but ASUS should have some control over the design
>>>and manufacture.
>>
>>  No.  The chinese ps makers have their own engineers and are the best
>> at it after decades of doing it (literally), and ASUS picks one from
>> their lines and has several M of them made, and they only thing they get
>> that is custom is the labeling and a guarantee that they will not kill
>> (read stop producing) the model.
>
>Then that's the control ASUS have over the design and manufacture of
>their power supplies. Cheap ones from Ebay do not have the assurance
>of that approval by the laptop manufacturer.
>
>>> Knock-offs bought directly from China may not have
>>>been adiquately designed for the application, 
>> 
>>  Nobody said anything about buying a false branded "knock-off".
>> 
>> There are literally hundreds of ps makers who make good products and
>> they do not need a brand sticker to guarantee tagged performance.  That
>> is what CE and TUV and UL certs are for.  And YES, they ARE valid cert
>> declarations.
>> 
>>  Sheesh.
>
>Some of the laptop power supplies on Ebay are fake OEM products, I
>should have said "third party" instead of knock-off, but I meant ones
>that are not OEM branded. Either way, there is little assurance that
>the design is sound and truely approved. There are plenty of poor
>charger designs, some with fake certifications, shown in teardowns
>on the web.

  No need for any tear down.  Place the output on a scope and put the
supply under its full rated load and look at the ripple.  It really is
that simple.

  Come back an hour later and check the case temperature and ripple
again.

  Easy greasy chin-o-fuckin-nesey.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 3:56:04 AM
In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:40:20 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
> 
>>Laptop PSUs should have current limiting in them too,
> 
>  I did not say a damned thing about current limiting.
> 
>  It is surge sensing.  If your PC is up with its 1000W supply only
> using 250W of it, and you try to add a hard drive while it is live, you
> can cause the entire supply to shut down, even though the HD and all of
> its inrush only taxed the rail a few more watts.  It can also happen
> merely adding a CD or DVD reader as well.  It is the change it senses,
> even if well below its max capacity.
> 
>  Hot swap supplies do not do this function.  ATX supplies do.  That is
> why they are so hard to use as a bench supply.
> 
>> but if a laptop
>>is on the edge of the maximum current from a PSU, then it could shut
>>down intermittently or have other problems, the cause of which may not
>>be clear to the user.
> 
>  Hardly a difference one would experience in your example of a mere 0.5
> amp differential.  Now try to move the goal posts again.

You're clearly after an argument. I'm just suggesting the way that a
standard for laptop power connectors could be implemented, bringing
up largely irrelevant points isn't going to get anywhere whether
they're right or not.

-- 
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#_ < |\| |< _#
0
not
10/18/2015 3:59:51 AM
In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:42:46 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
> 
>>Of course not, I'm making it clear that I'm talking about the cheap
>>power supplies advertised on EBAY in China, most of which are not
>>genuine OEM products, regardless of whether the genuine OEM product
>>is also made in China.
> 
>  I never said a damned thing about using a supply that has been falsely
> labeled as an OEM replacement.

I know you didn't. I was the one talking about non OEM products and you
replied under some strange assumption that I was talking about all power
supplies that are made in China. I wasn't.

-- 
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#_ < |\| |< _#
0
not
10/18/2015 4:02:10 AM
In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:53:15 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
> 
>>In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 02:32:43 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
>>> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
>>>
>>>>Probably China, but ASUS should have some control over the design
>>>>and manufacture.
>>>
>>>  No.  The chinese ps makers have their own engineers and are the best
>>> at it after decades of doing it (literally), and ASUS picks one from
>>> their lines and has several M of them made, and they only thing they get
>>> that is custom is the labeling and a guarantee that they will not kill
>>> (read stop producing) the model.
>>
>>Then that's the control ASUS have over the design and manufacture of
>>their power supplies. Cheap ones from Ebay do not have the assurance
>>of that approval by the laptop manufacturer.
>>
>>>> Knock-offs bought directly from China may not have
>>>>been adiquately designed for the application, 
>>> 
>>>  Nobody said anything about buying a false branded "knock-off".
>>> 
>>> There are literally hundreds of ps makers who make good products and
>>> they do not need a brand sticker to guarantee tagged performance.  That
>>> is what CE and TUV and UL certs are for.  And YES, they ARE valid cert
>>> declarations.
>>> 
>>>  Sheesh.
>>
>>Some of the laptop power supplies on Ebay are fake OEM products, I
>>should have said "third party" instead of knock-off, but I meant ones
>>that are not OEM branded. Either way, there is little assurance that
>>the design is sound and truely approved. There are plenty of poor
>>charger designs, some with fake certifications, shown in teardowns
>>on the web.
> 
>  No need for any tear down.  Place the output on a scope and put the
> supply under its full rated load and look at the ripple.  It really is
> that simple.
> 
>  Come back an hour later and check the case temperature and ripple
> again.
> 
>  Easy greasy chin-o-fuckin-nesey.

That covers safety for equipment before the components age. It doesn't
reveal safety for people with regards to things like circuit board track
spacing that are covered by safety certifications.

The average consumer also has to brave the electronic frontier without
the aid of an Oscilloscope or variable load.

-- 
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#_ < |\| |< _#
0
not
10/18/2015 4:06:17 AM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 04:06:17 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

>That covers safety for equipment before the components age.

  Not even fucking relevant.

> It doesn't
>reveal safety for people with regards to things like circuit board track
>spacing that are covered by safety certifications.

  Another stupid nit pick  MOST ARE properly laid out as well.  What
would they have to gain by not doing so?
>
>The average consumer also has to brave the electronic frontier without
>the aid of an Oscilloscope or variable load.


  Any idiot tearing apart a supply to examine trace spacing should know
that NOTHING is determined without one, so should not even be doing it
without one.

 IOW NO "average consumer" should be tearing apart a supply.
 Remember?  NO USER SERVICABLE PARTS INSIDE".  That statement had a
reason for being included.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 4:58:34 AM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:59:51 +0000 (UTC), Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

> In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:40:20 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
>> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
>> 
>>>Laptop PSUs should have current limiting in them too,
>> 
>>  I did not say a damned thing about current limiting.
>> 
>>  It is surge sensing.  If your PC is up with its 1000W supply only
>> using 250W of it, and you try to add a hard drive while it is live, you
>> can cause the entire supply to shut down, even though the HD and all of
>> its inrush only taxed the rail a few more watts.  It can also happen
>> merely adding a CD or DVD reader as well.  It is the change it senses,
>> even if well below its max capacity.
>> 
>>  Hot swap supplies do not do this function.  ATX supplies do.  That is
>> why they are so hard to use as a bench supply.
>> 
>>> but if a laptop
>>>is on the edge of the maximum current from a PSU, then it could shut
>>>down intermittently or have other problems, the cause of which may not
>>>be clear to the user.
>> 
>>  Hardly a difference one would experience in your example of a mere 0.5
>> amp differential.  Now try to move the goal posts again.
> 
> You're clearly after an argument. I'm just suggesting the way that a
> standard for laptop power connectors could be implemented, bringing
> up largely irrelevant points isn't going to get anywhere whether
> they're right or not.

Defecant_Linux_Luser_Numero_Uno is a very angry person with some serious
mental issues. He needs to make an appointment with a good shrink.
It seems to be common in the Linux community for some odd reason.

Anyway, here is a tear down of a cheap iPad adapter vs the real thing.
It has nothing to do with being made in China and everything to do with
being made to manufacturer's specifications vs something that is made as
cheaply as possible and barely works.

http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pricey.html
0
Onion
10/18/2015 3:14:47 PM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 11:14:47 -0400, Onion Knight
<onionknight@linuxmail.org> Gave us:

>Defecant_Linux_Luser_Numero_Uno is a very angry person with some serious
>mental issues.

  Fuck you, you retarded jackoff.

  Somebody should take a nice, splintery NYPD broomstick handle and
shove it up your ass till it comes out your mouth.

  It appears that trip would only be a couple inches, however.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 3:17:08 PM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 11:14:47 -0400, Onion Knight
<onionknight@linuxmail.org> Gave us:

>
>Anyway, here is a tear down of a cheap iPad adapter vs the real thing.

  Oh look...  The Apple retard thinks he is intelligent!
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 3:18:10 PM
On 2015-10-18, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno, published this proof of the Infinite Monkey Theorem:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 11:14:47 -0400, Onion Knight
><onionknight@linuxmail.org> Gave us:
>
>>Defecant_Linux_Luser_Numero_Uno is a very angry person with some serious
>>mental issues.
>
>   Fuck you, you retarded jackoff.

First, the pick-up line.

>
>   Somebody should take a nice, splintery NYPD broomstick handle and
> shove it up your ass till it comes out your mouth.
>

Then the Decadumper has his way with you.

>   It appears that trip would only be a couple inches, however.

Disappointing Decadumper, not even 3 inches.
Must be a bitch to break a Viagra into 6 pieces.

-- 
♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖
0
Godzilla
10/18/2015 3:24:19 PM
"Onion Knight" <onionknight@linuxmail.org> wrote in message 
news:e25chbyj6tlu.b0t4m2gumc4$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:59:51 +0000 (UTC), Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>
>> In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno 
>> <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:40:20 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
>>> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
>>>
>>>>Laptop PSUs should have current limiting in them too,
>>>
>>>  I did not say a damned thing about current limiting.
>>>
>>>  It is surge sensing.  If your PC is up with its 1000W supply only
>>> using 250W of it, and you try to add a hard drive while it is live, you
>>> can cause the entire supply to shut down, even though the HD and all of
>>> its inrush only taxed the rail a few more watts.  It can also happen
>>> merely adding a CD or DVD reader as well.  It is the change it senses,
>>> even if well below its max capacity.
>>>
>>>  Hot swap supplies do not do this function.  ATX supplies do.  That is
>>> why they are so hard to use as a bench supply.
>>>
>>>> but if a laptop
>>>>is on the edge of the maximum current from a PSU, then it could shut
>>>>down intermittently or have other problems, the cause of which may not
>>>>be clear to the user.
>>>
>>>  Hardly a difference one would experience in your example of a mere 0.5
>>> amp differential.  Now try to move the goal posts again.
>>
>> You're clearly after an argument. I'm just suggesting the way that a
>> standard for laptop power connectors could be implemented, bringing
>> up largely irrelevant points isn't going to get anywhere whether
>> they're right or not.
>
> Defecant_Linux_Luser_Numero_Uno is a very angry person with some serious
> mental issues. He needs to make an appointment with a good shrink.
> It seems to be common in the Linux community for some odd reason.
>
> Anyway, here is a tear down of a cheap iPad adapter vs the real thing.
> It has nothing to do with being made in China and everything to do with
> being made to manufacturer's specifications vs something that is made as
> cheaply as possible and barely works.
>
> http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pricey.html


Is there a more recent article like the following...

Round-up of 74 laptop power adapters: original or universal?
http://us.hardware.info/reviews/3151/round-up-of-74-laptop-power-adapters-original-or-universal

for the US market?


0
Adam
10/18/2015 8:58:19 PM
In comp.sys.laptops Onion Knight <onionknight@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:59:51 +0000 (UTC), Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> 
>> In comp.sys.laptops DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@decadentlinuxuser.org> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:40:20 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
>>> (Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:
>>> 
>>>>Laptop PSUs should have current limiting in them too,
>>> 
>>>  I did not say a damned thing about current limiting.
>>> 
>>>  It is surge sensing.  If your PC is up with its 1000W supply only
>>> using 250W of it, and you try to add a hard drive while it is live, you
>>> can cause the entire supply to shut down, even though the HD and all of
>>> its inrush only taxed the rail a few more watts.  It can also happen
>>> merely adding a CD or DVD reader as well.  It is the change it senses,
>>> even if well below its max capacity.
>>> 
>>>  Hot swap supplies do not do this function.  ATX supplies do.  That is
>>> why they are so hard to use as a bench supply.
>>> 
>>>> but if a laptop
>>>>is on the edge of the maximum current from a PSU, then it could shut
>>>>down intermittently or have other problems, the cause of which may not
>>>>be clear to the user.
>>> 
>>>  Hardly a difference one would experience in your example of a mere 0.5
>>> amp differential.  Now try to move the goal posts again.
>> 
>> You're clearly after an argument. I'm just suggesting the way that a
>> standard for laptop power connectors could be implemented, bringing
>> up largely irrelevant points isn't going to get anywhere whether
>> they're right or not.
> 
> Defecant_Linux_Luser_Numero_Uno is a very angry person with some serious
> mental issues. He needs to make an appointment with a good shrink.
> It seems to be common in the Linux community for some odd reason.

Thanks for the explanation.

-- 
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#_ < |\| |< _#
0
not
10/18/2015 9:01:36 PM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:24:19 +0000 (UTC), Godzilla
<godzilla@lizardboss.invalid> Gave us:

>>   It appears that trip would only be a couple inches, however.
>
>Disappointing Decadumper, not even 3 inches.
>Must be a bitch to break a Viagra into 6 pieces.

  It is a reference to how far your head is up your ass, such that your
asshole and your mouth are only a couple inches apart..

  Nice try, though, punk.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 9:06:25 PM
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 21:01:36 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) Gave us:

>> Defecant_Linux_Luser_Numero_Uno is a very angry person with some serious
>> mental issues. He needs to make an appointment with a good shrink.
>> It seems to be common in the Linux community for some odd reason.
>
>Thanks for the explanation.

  You're both retarded and he is worse than Donald Trump.  And look at
you touting his words as "explanations"..

  You are beyond stupid.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/18/2015 9:10:46 PM
On 2015-10-18, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno, published this proof of the Infinite Monkey Theorem:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:24:19 +0000 (UTC), Godzilla
><godzilla@lizardboss.invalid> Gave us:
>
>>>   It appears that trip would only be a couple inches, however.
>>
>>Disappointing Decadumper, not even 3 inches.
>>Must be a bitch to break a Viagra into 6 pieces.
>
>   It is a reference to how far your head is up your ass, such that your
> asshole and your mouth are only a couple inches apart..
>
>   Nice try, though, punk.

It wasn't a reference to me at all, you trinket gathering poof.

-- 
♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖
0
Godzilla
10/18/2015 10:22:18 PM
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message 
news:h0l42b9lagljk7affel3lvbcjk4pbjt7ic@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:48:17 -0400, Caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> Gave
> us:
>
> snip
>
>  This one is 135 Watts.  Would (may) only need an output plug
> changeout.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012HW5A9O
>
>  And no, the wattage does not have to match the original.  More is
> better.  It is just a declaration of what the supply is able to provide.
> Your device still uses only what it uses.  It merely has a better
> likelihood of providing a cleaner DC feed, and exhibiting less heat
> while doing so.

ASUS representative said...

"A higher wattage AC adapter can cause damage to battery overtime.
Thus, it is not recommended."

Is this true?


0
Adam
10/20/2015 2:50:22 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:50:22 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:

>
>"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message 
>news:h0l42b9lagljk7affel3lvbcjk4pbjt7ic@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:48:17 -0400, Caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> Gave
>> us:
>>
>> snip
>>
>>  This one is 135 Watts.  Would (may) only need an output plug
>> changeout.
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012HW5A9O
>>
>>  And no, the wattage does not have to match the original.  More is
>> better.  It is just a declaration of what the supply is able to provide.
>> Your device still uses only what it uses.  It merely has a better
>> likelihood of providing a cleaner DC feed, and exhibiting less heat
>> while doing so.
>
>ASUS representative said...
>
>"A higher wattage AC adapter can cause damage to battery overtime.
>Thus, it is not recommended."
>
>Is this true?
>
  No.  A battery is charged by voltage.  It requires a voltage greater
than the battery's operating voltage.  That is usually managed by a
watchdog chip/circuit.  They operate from within a specific input
voltage range and ONLY feed the battery the voltage it needs.  And they
stop the charging cycle when they are through.  You'll notice this same
behavior on your smart phone and some laptops when they say "not
charging" even though you attached an external source.

  An adaptor that can put out 65W does so comfortably and without
exhibiting heat or feeding a noisy rail (ripple).  That means if they
get fully loaded to the 65W rating, they are supposed to work at that
level 24/7/365, as in "full duty cycle".  A higher power, same voltage
supply does the same thing and at it rated power when loaded to that
level.  If you hook it up to a lesser load, it will pull less and run
cooler and exhibit less ripple.

  So essentially he couldn't be more wrong if he tried.

  It is incorrect to attach a higher voltage supply, but NOT incorrect
to attach a higher wattage supply.  The wattage rating declares the work
which it is capable of doing..  It does not "feed more" if the load has
not changed, and it has not.  The device acts no differently simply
because a more capable, quieter running power unit got attached.
As long as the voltage matches, the device will draw no more power than
it did on the other power supply device.

  I can not explain it more concisely, because that covers it
completely.

  You can tell him I said he is wrong, and needs to go back to bullshit
salesman school.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/20/2015 4:21:10 PM
On 10/15/15 11:33, Adam so wittily quipped:
> System:    ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
> Host OS:    Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
> 
> 
> After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
> ASUS laptop does nothing.  The laptop was/is connected to
> an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
> AC adapter's green light is "on".
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 

try removing all power (including the battery).  Wait a minute, put the
battery back in, and try powering off of the battery.  Then try powering
off of both battery AND charger.  And finally, with the battery removed,
try running it JUST on the charger.  If all 3 of these fail, your
hardware is probably FUBAR.

you might also see if the power cable on the charger is messed up. Give
the wires a wiggle, see if it does something.

it's also possible that whatever power event caused the outage might
have damaged your laptop charger.  it _might_ happen.

0
Big
10/20/2015 6:01:53 PM
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message 
news:jfqc2bt4q2nlbff4bng9a1l2bopcgqu330@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:50:22 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>
>>
>>"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message
>>news:h0l42b9lagljk7affel3lvbcjk4pbjt7ic@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:48:17 -0400, Caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> Gave
>>> us:
>>>
>>> snip
>>>
>>>  This one is 135 Watts.  Would (may) only need an output plug
>>> changeout.
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012HW5A9O
>>>
>>>  And no, the wattage does not have to match the original.  More is
>>> better.  It is just a declaration of what the supply is able to provide.
>>> Your device still uses only what it uses.  It merely has a better
>>> likelihood of providing a cleaner DC feed, and exhibiting less heat
>>> while doing so.
>>
>>ASUS representative said...
>>
>>"A higher wattage AC adapter can cause damage to battery overtime.
>>Thus, it is not recommended."
>>
>>Is this true?
>>
>  No.  A battery is charged by voltage.  It requires a voltage greater
> than the battery's operating voltage.  That is usually managed by a
> watchdog chip/circuit.  They operate from within a specific input
> voltage range and ONLY feed the battery the voltage it needs.  And they
> stop the charging cycle when they are through.  You'll notice this same
> behavior on your smart phone and some laptops when they say "not
> charging" even though you attached an external source.
>
>  An adaptor that can put out 65W does so comfortably and without
> exhibiting heat or feeding a noisy rail (ripple).  That means if they
> get fully loaded to the 65W rating, they are supposed to work at that
> level 24/7/365, as in "full duty cycle".  A higher power, same voltage
> supply does the same thing and at it rated power when loaded to that
> level.  If you hook it up to a lesser load, it will pull less and run
> cooler and exhibit less ripple.
>
>  So essentially he couldn't be more wrong if he tried.
>
>  It is incorrect to attach a higher voltage supply, but NOT incorrect
> to attach a higher wattage supply.  The wattage rating declares the work
> which it is capable of doing..  It does not "feed more" if the load has
> not changed, and it has not.  The device acts no differently simply
> because a more capable, quieter running power unit got attached.
> As long as the voltage matches, the device will draw no more power than
> it did on the other power supply device.
>
>  I can not explain it more concisely, because that covers it
> completely.
>
>  You can tell him I said he is wrong, and needs to go back to bullshit
> salesman school.


Thanks (NumeroUno), that makes sense.  So, if I stick with
a 19V AC adapter that is 90+W, I should be fine.

Just FYI, the following items...

90 Watt AC Adapter (New Design) 0A001-00051000
http://us.estore.asus.com/products/0a001-00051000

6-Cell Battery 07G016HJ1875
http://us.estore.asus.com/products/07g016hj1875

were suggested to me by ASUS.


This is OT but anyone know how to find a dental hygienist,
with whom you've lost touch (because
the "new" owner wants that relationship severed)?

The previous owner retired.
[Alan L. Grimm, DDS, Milpitas, CA]
And, I don't know her last name.


0
Adam
10/20/2015 6:17:01 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:01:53 -0700, Big Bad Bob
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> Gave us:

>try removing all power (including the battery).

  Try reading the thread.  It was half a month ago and was solved.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/20/2015 6:31:05 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:17:01 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
snip
>This is OT but anyone know how to find a dental hygienist,
>with whom you've lost touch (because
>the "new" owner wants that relationship severed)?
>
>The previous owner retired.
>[Alan L. Grimm, DDS, Milpitas, CA]
>And, I don't know her last name.
>
  Well with a name like Alan, I'll bet she has a pretty low voice an a
fairly large clit!  :-)
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/20/2015 6:33:00 PM
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message 
news:m42d2bp505mvavfqb1mkob29itf5uoefao@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:17:01 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
> snip
>>This is OT but anyone know how to find a dental hygienist,
>>with whom you've lost touch (because
>>the "new" owner wants that relationship severed)?
>>
>>The previous owner retired.
>>[Alan L. Grimm, DDS, Milpitas, CA]
>>And, I don't know her last name.
>>
>  Well with a name like Alan, I'll bet she has a pretty low voice an a
> fairly large clit!  :-)

No, she's just a very good dental hygienist.


0
Adam
10/20/2015 6:54:04 PM
On 10/20/2015 9:21 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:50:22 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
>
>>
>> "DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message
>> news:h0l42b9lagljk7affel3lvbcjk4pbjt7ic@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:48:17 -0400, Caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> Gave
>>> us:
>>>
>>> snip
>>>
>>>   This one is 135 Watts.  Would (may) only need an output plug
>>> changeout.
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012HW5A9O
>>>
>>>   And no, the wattage does not have to match the original.  More is
>>> better.  It is just a declaration of what the supply is able to provide.
>>> Your device still uses only what it uses.  It merely has a better
>>> likelihood of providing a cleaner DC feed, and exhibiting less heat
>>> while doing so.
>>
>> ASUS representative said...
>>
>> "A higher wattage AC adapter can cause damage to battery overtime.
>> Thus, it is not recommended."
>>
>> Is this true?
>>
>    No.  A battery is charged by voltage.  It requires a voltage greater
> than the battery's operating voltage.  That is usually managed by a
> watchdog chip/circuit.  They operate from within a specific input
> voltage range and ONLY feed the battery the voltage it needs.  And they
> stop the charging cycle when they are through.  You'll notice this same
> behavior on your smart phone and some laptops when they say "not
> charging" even though you attached an external source.
>
>    An adaptor that can put out 65W does so comfortably and without
> exhibiting heat or feeding a noisy rail (ripple).  That means if they
> get fully loaded to the 65W rating, they are supposed to work at that
> level 24/7/365, as in "full duty cycle".  A higher power, same voltage
> supply does the same thing and at it rated power when loaded to that
> level.  If you hook it up to a lesser load, it will pull less and run
> cooler and exhibit less ripple.
>
>    So essentially he couldn't be more wrong if he tried.
>
>    It is incorrect to attach a higher voltage supply, but NOT incorrect
> to attach a higher wattage supply.  The wattage rating declares the work
> which it is capable of doing..  It does not "feed more" if the load has
> not changed, and it has not.  The device acts no differently simply
> because a more capable, quieter running power unit got attached.
> As long as the voltage matches, the device will draw no more power than
> it did on the other power supply device.
>
>    I can not explain it more concisely, because that covers it
> completely.
>
>    You can tell him I said he is wrong, and needs to go back to bullshit
> salesman school.
>
That advice is always correct, except when it isn't.
Designers sometimes do stupid things to reduce costs.
Sometimes advisers extrapolate their experience to situations
where it doesn't apply and express it with arrogance.

Check out the schematic for a Compaq Aero 4-25.
The only thing between the battery and the charge jack is a FET switch.
They use the current limit in the power brick to limit the charge
current.  If you use a charger with a higher current limit, you overheat
the battery.
If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.

Expressing advice concisely and completely with maximum arrogance
to a newbie without a voltmeter or the
means or understanding to verify the advice is irresponsible...
even if it is correct ALMOST all of the time.
Sometimes, the advice doesn't apply.
0
mike
10/20/2015 7:54:19 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:54:19 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:

>That advice is always correct, except when it isn't.

  You are being an idiot again.

  A load is a load, and incorporating a more capable supply at the same
voltage changes nothing about the consumption rate of the load.

>Designers sometimes do stupid things to reduce costs.

  You are being an idiot again..  No designer can design a device that
presents a given supply a specific load which changes when a better
supply is attached.
 
>Sometimes advisers extrapolate their experience to situations
>where it doesn't apply and express it with arrogance.

  And some detractors are so stupid they cannot even present a valid
argument.  That would be you, idiot.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/20/2015 8:00:20 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:54:19 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:

>Check out the schematic for a Compaq Aero 4-25.
>The only thing between the battery and the charge jack is a FET switch.
>They use the current limit in the power brick to limit the charge
>current.  If you use a charger with a higher current limit, you overheat
>the battery.

  Wrong again.  The battery itself has watchdog features in it.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/20/2015 8:01:20 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:54:19 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:

>If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
>Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.

  Maybe you should learn how to spell 'motherboard' before you go
expounding on them.

  Current is limited already because it is set by the voltage presented,
not the capacity of the supply to feed a load.

  You are an electrical idiot as well, I see.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/20/2015 8:03:17 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:54:19 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:

>Expressing advice concisely and completely with maximum arrogance
>to a newbie without a voltmeter or the
>means or understanding to verify the advice is irresponsible...

  You are an idiot.  The supply voltage and rating is declared,
dumbfuck.

>even if it is correct ALMOST all of the time.

  what I stated is correct ALL the time, idiot.

>Sometimes, the advice doesn't apply.

  Like the shit you just got done spewing into this thread.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/20/2015 8:04:39 PM
On 10/20/2015 1:03 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:54:19 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:
>
>> If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
>> Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.
>
>    Maybe you should learn how to spell 'motherboard' before you go
> expounding on them.
>
>    Current is limited already because it is set by the voltage presented,
> not the capacity of the supply to feed a load.
>
>    You are an electrical idiot as well, I see.
>
Perhaps if you read the text instead of snipping it, you'd have seen the
example that contradicts your arrogance.
So far, three UTI's on this post.
Wonder if I can trade 'em in for something useful?  I sure have a lot
of 'em.
0
mike
10/20/2015 9:32:44 PM
mike wrote:

> That advice is always correct, except when it isn't.
> Designers sometimes do stupid things to reduce costs.
> Sometimes advisers extrapolate their experience to situations
> where it doesn't apply and express it with arrogance.
> 
> Check out the schematic for a Compaq Aero 4-25.
> The only thing between the battery and the charge jack is a FET switch.
> They use the current limit in the power brick to limit the charge
> current.  If you use a charger with a higher current limit, you overheat
> the battery.
> If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
> Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.
> 
> Expressing advice concisely and completely with maximum arrogance
> to a newbie without a voltmeter or the
> means or understanding to verify the advice is irresponsible...
> even if it is correct ALMOST all of the time.
> Sometimes, the advice doesn't apply.

You missed a golden opportunity.

I already provided a link from badcaps.net, with a
*schematic* for the laptop. Apply for a login account,
so you can download the schematic. I already had an account
on badcaps, so could get this immediately.

"ASUS N61JQ won't start"
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42461

You can apply your keen analytical skills to that schematic
and tell us how the unit works.

PDF page 89 has the battery controller (MB39A132).
PDF page 60 has the DC jack with inductive surge (undershoot) protection.

And to help you on your way, this doc gives you an
overview on the MB39A132 feature set.

"DC/DC Converter IC for Charging Li-ion Batteries MB39A132 ..."
http://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/EDG/binary/pdf/find/26-3e/7.pdf

What do you notice on Figure 9 Page 5 ? It uses an SMPS
with high side/low side MOSFETs for controlling the charging
of the battery.

What can you feed an SMPS with ? All sorts of stuff.
Very flexible. What may not be flexible, is some of the
voltage thresholds set to work with a 19V adapter.
(The chip detects when the AC adapter is plugged in.)

I got a datasheet for the MB39A132 here. But that
isn't necessary needed right away.

http://master-chip.ru/store/files/b75d64b3-f625-774c-9992-25c047244b48/mb39a132.pdf

*******

Your quoted material, is from a 20 year old laptop,
a laptop with NiMH battery technology. What are
the odds that a current generation laptop is
as crude as that ? You yourself contributed to
this faq.

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/pc-hardware-faq/laptops/compaq-aero/

    Paul
0
Paul
10/20/2015 11:29:01 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:32:44 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:

>On 10/20/2015 1:03 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:54:19 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:
>>
>>> If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
>>> Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.
>>
>>    Maybe you should learn how to spell 'motherboard' before you go
>> expounding on them.
>>
>>    Current is limited already because it is set by the voltage presented,
>> not the capacity of the supply to feed a load.
>>
>>    You are an electrical idiot as well, I see.
>>
>Perhaps if you read the text instead of snipping it, you'd have seen the
>example that contradicts your arrogance.
>So far, three UTI's on this post.
>Wonder if I can trade 'em in for something useful?  I sure have a lot
>of 'em.

  You are real good at jacking off at the mouth about your petty,
retarded non- "acronyms", but not surprisingly devoid of actual content
that refutes what I stated.  To state someone I hate, You'd be fired.
You are ineffectual, at best.

  You could not debate this with any modicum of technical accuracy if
your life depended on it.  A pussy like you will try to let it die
quietly than actually provide a substantive retort.  Come back when you
actually have a valid argument, chump.  Your FET argument was a basic
Ohm's law full tilt failure, and I easily pointed that fact out to you.

  Run, pussy boy, run!
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/20/2015 11:51:37 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 19:29:01 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> Gave us:

>You missed a golden opportunity.

  It is basic Ohm's Law.  He failed.  Period.

  19Volts is 19Volts all day long.

  A 65 watt supply and a 90 watt supply and even the 135 watt supply I
gave a link to ALL ONLY provide 19Volts, and their maximum capacity
means absolutely NOTHING as they only pump the power needed for the
presented load, and that does not change from one supply to another when
placed on the same load.

  If they are at 19Volts, then they ALL three only pump the same load
the same way.

  So, a 65 Watt loads gets 3.421 Amps fed into it by a 65 Watt supply,
and that maxes out that supply and it will have the highest ripple of
its designed parameters.

  A 65 watt load only gets 3.421 Amps fed into it by a 90 Watt supply as
well, and a 65 watt load only gets 3.421 Amps fed into it by a 135 Watt
supply.  The higher power capable supplies will have lower ripple
figures, guaranteed.

  See how easy that is?  Basic Ohm's Law.  The supply ONLY declares what
its FULL LOAD potential to operate at is.  That means that ALL three
supplies will fill the 19 Volt requisite need for this load.  The ONLY
difference will be that the latter two will do so while running cooler
and very likely while presenting less ripple to the load, which BTW,
computers like.

  So mike is absolutely full of shit.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/21/2015 12:03:51 AM
On 10/20/2015 4:29 PM, Paul wrote:
> mike wrote:
>
>> That advice is always correct, except when it isn't.
>> Designers sometimes do stupid things to reduce costs.
>> Sometimes advisers extrapolate their experience to situations
>> where it doesn't apply and express it with arrogance.
>>
>> Check out the schematic for a Compaq Aero 4-25.
>> The only thing between the battery and the charge jack is a FET switch.
>> They use the current limit in the power brick to limit the charge
>> current.  If you use a charger with a higher current limit, you overheat
>> the battery.
>> If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
>> Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.
>>
>> Expressing advice concisely and completely with maximum arrogance
>> to a newbie without a voltmeter or the
>> means or understanding to verify the advice is irresponsible...
>> even if it is correct ALMOST all of the time.
>> Sometimes, the advice doesn't apply.
>
> You missed a golden opportunity.
>
> I already provided a link from badcaps.net, with a
> *schematic* for the laptop. Apply for a login account,
> so you can download the schematic. I already had an account
> on badcaps, so could get this immediately.
>
> "ASUS N61JQ won't start"
> http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42461
>
> You can apply your keen analytical skills to that schematic
> and tell us how the unit works.
>
> PDF page 89 has the battery controller (MB39A132).
> PDF page 60 has the DC jack with inductive surge (undershoot) protection.
>
> And to help you on your way, this doc gives you an
> overview on the MB39A132 feature set.
>
> "DC/DC Converter IC for Charging Li-ion Batteries MB39A132 ..."
> http://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/EDG/binary/pdf/find/26-3e/7.pdf
>
> What do you notice on Figure 9 Page 5 ? It uses an SMPS
> with high side/low side MOSFETs for controlling the charging
> of the battery.
>
> What can you feed an SMPS with ? All sorts of stuff.
> Very flexible. What may not be flexible, is some of the
> voltage thresholds set to work with a 19V adapter.
> (The chip detects when the AC adapter is plugged in.)
>
> I got a datasheet for the MB39A132 here. But that
> isn't necessary needed right away.
>
> http://master-chip.ru/store/files/b75d64b3-f625-774c-9992-25c047244b48/mb39a132.pdf
>
>
> *******
>
> Your quoted material, is from a 20 year old laptop,
> a laptop with NiMH battery technology. What are
> the odds that a current generation laptop is
> as crude as that ? You yourself contributed to
> this faq.
>
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/pc-hardware-faq/laptops/compaq-aero/
>
>     Paul
Well, these newsgroups last forever.  Just because you know what
you're doing, doesn't mean that everyone else does.

I already stated that it's likely that it's OK.

I'm merely responding to the knowitalls who state with
authority that they have all the answers, when they really
don't actually know EVERYTHING.
It's very easy to take some experience and extrapolate it to
the point where it gets someone else in trouble.
Too much typing and not nearly enough thinking.

Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking up
designs.  You find out after it's too late.
0
mike
10/21/2015 7:10:38 AM
mike wrote:

> 
> Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking up
> designs.  You find out after it's too late.

The charger industry is proud of abusing electronic
components to come up with cheaper and cheaper
solutions.

This is why my Black and Decker cordless screwdriver
reduced three battery packs to puddles of goo. The
charging solution has absolutely no merit at all
(no charge termination).

On the other hand, I like my car battery charger,
which uses only a transformer and selenium rectifiers
to make a "high impedance" charging circuit. The packaging
claims an amount of current will flow, which is never
achieved. So it's pretty hard to cook a battery (or
charge it quickly) with the charger. But in terms
of construction, they couldn't make it much cheaper -
removing the selenium rectifier thingy would leave
you with only an AC transformer.

If your laptop had NiCd batteries in it, I'm sure they
could have cut a few more corners.

It's the fact that Lithium Ion battery packs are
so dangerous (from a corporate liability point of view),
that a lot more care is put into them. If it wasn't
for Lithium Ion, we might never have seen precision
charging chips.

    Paul
0
Paul
10/21/2015 7:31:17 AM
On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 00:10:38 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:

>I'm merely responding to the knowitalls who state with
>authority that they have all the answers, when they really
>don't actually know EVERYTHING.

  I NEVER made any such claim.  That retarded horseshit ONLY came out of
you, dipshit.

  I spent a decade designing switch mode power supplies, and I know what
I know and never claimed to know more.

  But I certainly know more than a putz who cannot even get Linux, or
basic Ohm's Law.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/21/2015 12:30:03 PM
On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 00:10:38 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:

>It's very easy to take some experience and extrapolate it to
>the point where it gets someone else in trouble.

  Yes, you have been trolling this Linux newsgroup for years with inane
bullshit extrapolated from your bent brain.
0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/21/2015 12:30:57 PM
On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 03:31:17 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> Gave us:

>mike wrote:
>
>> 
>> Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking up
>> designs.  You find out after it's too late.
>
>The charger industry is proud of abusing electronic
>components to come up with cheaper and cheaper
>solutions.
>
>This is why my Black and Decker cordless screwdriver
>reduced three battery packs to puddles of goo. The
>charging solution has absolutely no merit at all
>(no charge termination).

  The battery technology in such devices is far less advanced than that
used in a portable computing device, not to mention the "chargers" they
incorporated.
>
>On the other hand, I like my car battery charger,
>which uses only a transformer and selenium rectifiers
>to make a "high impedance" charging circuit.

  Lead acid batteries merely need a voltage greater than the battery
voltage to take on a charge.  They do not car about ripple.  Device
chargers are not only meant to charge the device battery, but the power
they feed must be clean enough to power the device as well.

>The packaging
>claims an amount of current will flow, which is never
>achieved. So it's pretty hard to cook a battery (or
>charge it quickly) with the charger. 

  Car batteries can literally explode if overcharged.

>But in terms
>of construction, they couldn't make it much cheaper -

  They only need to rectify the AC so that it make DC pulses which are
higher in voltage than the battery.  They are not meant to power a
device, nor do they have to provide what is known as 'a clean source'.

>removing the selenium rectifier thingy would leave
>you with only an AC transformer.

  No shit.  And they usually use a simple diode rectifier or diode
bridge, not expensive Selenium.
>
>If your laptop had NiCd batteries in it, I'm sure they
>could have cut a few more corners.

  Those batteries age and that is why they were phased out for more
advanced power storage devices.
>
>It's the fact that Lithium Ion battery packs are
>so dangerous (from a corporate liability point of view),

  They are dangerous from a real POV as well, not simply some lame
liability like lawn darts, or "coffee is hot".

>that a lot more care is put into them.

  More is done because the 'juice' they provide must be CLEAN for the
device to not puke all over itself.

> If it wasn't
>for Lithium Ion, we might never have seen precision
>charging chips.

0
DecadentLinuxUserNum
10/21/2015 12:40:31 PM
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message 
news:n07es3$p59$1@dont-email.me...
> mike wrote:
>
>>
>> Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking up
>> designs.  You find out after it's too late.
>
> The charger industry is proud of abusing electronic
> components to come up with cheaper and cheaper
> solutions.
>
> This is why my Black and Decker cordless screwdriver
> reduced three battery packs to puddles of goo. The
> charging solution has absolutely no merit at all
> (no charge termination).
>
> On the other hand, I like my car battery charger,
> which uses only a transformer and selenium rectifiers
> to make a "high impedance" charging circuit. The packaging
> claims an amount of current will flow, which is never
> achieved. So it's pretty hard to cook a battery (or
> charge it quickly) with the charger. But in terms
> of construction, they couldn't make it much cheaper -
> removing the selenium rectifier thingy would leave
> you with only an AC transformer.
>
> If your laptop had NiCd batteries in it, I'm sure they
> could have cut a few more corners.
>
> It's the fact that Lithium Ion battery packs are
> so dangerous (from a corporate liability point of view),
> that a lot more care is put into them. If it wasn't
> for Lithium Ion, we might never have seen precision
> charging chips.
>
>    Paul

Thanks (Guru Paul, et al), for the clarification.
I think everyone is "right" but just saying
the same thing in their own unique ways.

Sorry, I should have been more clear.
Let me rephrase...

For laptops (or more valuable equipment nowadays),
if I stick with a compatible voltage (19V) AC adapter with
sufficient power (90+W), I should be fine since
more and more safety measures (like sensors) are
designed in to protect valuable equipment.
Safety measures designed in is directly proportional to
value of equipment (both increase/decrease together).

Any recommendations on resources (books, magazines, websites, etc.) on
power for newbies?


0
Adam
10/21/2015 9:22:08 PM
Adam wrote:
> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message 
> news:n07es3$p59$1@dont-email.me...
>> mike wrote:
>>
>>> Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking up
>>> designs.  You find out after it's too late.
>> The charger industry is proud of abusing electronic
>> components to come up with cheaper and cheaper
>> solutions.
>>
>> This is why my Black and Decker cordless screwdriver
>> reduced three battery packs to puddles of goo. The
>> charging solution has absolutely no merit at all
>> (no charge termination).
>>
>> On the other hand, I like my car battery charger,
>> which uses only a transformer and selenium rectifiers
>> to make a "high impedance" charging circuit. The packaging
>> claims an amount of current will flow, which is never
>> achieved. So it's pretty hard to cook a battery (or
>> charge it quickly) with the charger. But in terms
>> of construction, they couldn't make it much cheaper -
>> removing the selenium rectifier thingy would leave
>> you with only an AC transformer.
>>
>> If your laptop had NiCd batteries in it, I'm sure they
>> could have cut a few more corners.
>>
>> It's the fact that Lithium Ion battery packs are
>> so dangerous (from a corporate liability point of view),
>> that a lot more care is put into them. If it wasn't
>> for Lithium Ion, we might never have seen precision
>> charging chips.
>>
>>    Paul
> 
> Thanks (Guru Paul, et al), for the clarification.
> I think everyone is "right" but just saying
> the same thing in their own unique ways.
> 
> Sorry, I should have been more clear.
> Let me rephrase...
> 
> For laptops (or more valuable equipment nowadays),
> if I stick with a compatible voltage (19V) AC adapter with
> sufficient power (90+W), I should be fine since
> more and more safety measures (like sensors) are
> designed in to protect valuable equipment.
> Safety measures designed in is directly proportional to
> value of equipment (both increase/decrease together).
> 
> Any recommendations on resources (books, magazines, websites, etc.) on
> power for newbies?
> 
> 

Most of what I've learned, was by analysing stuff (schematics),
or learning by making mistakes.

To illustrate, there are three kinds of adapters for
consumer electronics. These are general categories.

1) AC adapter (it's just a transformer)
2) Unregulated DC adapter (transformer, rectifiers, filter cap)
    DC voltage varies with loading.
3) Regulated DC adapter (SMPS, similar to ATX power supply design,
    isolated for shock protection, overcurrent detection with
    various behaviors on overcurrent). Complete switch-off being
    a common overcurrent behavior). Connect a 2 amp light bulb
    to a 2 amp adapter, it will shut off. Why ? The bulb draws
    4 amps when it is cold, trips the OC immediately, and the
    adapter shuts off.

OK, I bought a label maker one day. It had provision for battery
operation. You were supposed to pour $$$ worth of dry cells into
the thing. An optional adapter was available, at $50 !!!
Well, naturally, being a cheap-skate, I wanted neither dry cells
nor a $50 adapter.

On the housing of the unit, next to the barrel connector for power,
it said "7VDC", and had the symbol for center-positive power. So
I bought a *regulated* 7VDC adapter and plugged it in. I verified
the adapter made exactly 7V, and it did do that. With a fairly high
current rating (so not likely to poop out on OC).

So I try to print a label, and... nothing.

So I eventually break down and buy the optional adapter for $50.
Turns out it is unregulated. At no load, the adapter makes *10V*
and at the instant the motor cranks the label through the print
area, the voltage drops down to 7V due to the increased current
draw.

So it really needed the elevated (unspecified) 10V voltage to make
the keyboard and display and control chip work.

That lesson taught me, that the specification printed on
the housing ("7VDC") could be regulated or unregulated, and
there is no way to know which is appropriate. They kinda got you
by the nuts.

And that's learning by making mistakes.

As for your laptop, I don't see a reason in what I've seen
in the schematic so far, for there to be a dependency on adapter
power rating. Your laptop is the 90W design. A 19V adapter
of 90W or 135W should work. The charging circuit has control
of what it is doing, and is not dependent on external impedance
characteristics. The charger chip has slow start (inrush limit),
so if the adapter is already plugged into the wall and you
shove the barrel into the laptop jack, the adapter doesn't
quit on OC. There is a clamp diode near the jack, so if the
barrel is removed while the adapter is powered, the inductive
kick-back is quenched. The design has a current sampling shunt,
which implies the chip can sense the current. And knows if
too much current is being drawn. And it has a fair number
of MOSFETs to control various things. As long as MOSFETs are
saturated (fully ON or fully OFF), they don't get all that
warm. And that's important. It's easy to burn out a MOSFET
with no heatsink, by turning it half-ON by design. This is
why SMPS circuits take turns with MOSFETs fully ON or fully OFF,
to achieve a desired result. The devices then get warm but
not hot.

There are adapters that have more than two wires, and that
immediately makes me suspicious. It implies some form of
control, or "adapter power rating checking" being done
by the laptop. That tends to happen with stuff above
65W. You're likely to find 65W designs to be pretty simple
and carefree. Anything above that, you should keep your
eyes open, and do a bit of Googling to learn of the
issues.

    Paul
0
Paul
10/21/2015 10:32:29 PM
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message 
news:n093lt$8bd$1@dont-email.me...
> Adam wrote:
>> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message 
>> news:n07es3$p59$1@dont-email.me...
>>> mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking up
>>>> designs.  You find out after it's too late.
>>> The charger industry is proud of abusing electronic
>>> components to come up with cheaper and cheaper
>>> solutions.
>>>
>>> This is why my Black and Decker cordless screwdriver
>>> reduced three battery packs to puddles of goo. The
>>> charging solution has absolutely no merit at all
>>> (no charge termination).
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I like my car battery charger,
>>> which uses only a transformer and selenium rectifiers
>>> to make a "high impedance" charging circuit. The packaging
>>> claims an amount of current will flow, which is never
>>> achieved. So it's pretty hard to cook a battery (or
>>> charge it quickly) with the charger. But in terms
>>> of construction, they couldn't make it much cheaper -
>>> removing the selenium rectifier thingy would leave
>>> you with only an AC transformer.
>>>
>>> If your laptop had NiCd batteries in it, I'm sure they
>>> could have cut a few more corners.
>>>
>>> It's the fact that Lithium Ion battery packs are
>>> so dangerous (from a corporate liability point of view),
>>> that a lot more care is put into them. If it wasn't
>>> for Lithium Ion, we might never have seen precision
>>> charging chips.
>>>
>>>    Paul
>>
>> Thanks (Guru Paul, et al), for the clarification.
>> I think everyone is "right" but just saying
>> the same thing in their own unique ways.
>>
>> Sorry, I should have been more clear.
>> Let me rephrase...
>>
>> For laptops (or more valuable equipment nowadays),
>> if I stick with a compatible voltage (19V) AC adapter with
>> sufficient power (90+W), I should be fine since
>> more and more safety measures (like sensors) are
>> designed in to protect valuable equipment.
>> Safety measures designed in is directly proportional to
>> value of equipment (both increase/decrease together).
>>
>> Any recommendations on resources (books, magazines, websites, etc.) on
>> power for newbies?
>>
>
> Most of what I've learned, was by analysing stuff (schematics),
> or learning by making mistakes.
>
> To illustrate, there are three kinds of adapters for
> consumer electronics. These are general categories.
>
> 1) AC adapter (it's just a transformer)
> 2) Unregulated DC adapter (transformer, rectifiers, filter cap)
>    DC voltage varies with loading.
> 3) Regulated DC adapter (SMPS, similar to ATX power supply design,
>    isolated for shock protection, overcurrent detection with
>    various behaviors on overcurrent). Complete switch-off being
>    a common overcurrent behavior). Connect a 2 amp light bulb
>    to a 2 amp adapter, it will shut off. Why ? The bulb draws
>    4 amps when it is cold, trips the OC immediately, and the
>    adapter shuts off.
>
> OK, I bought a label maker one day. It had provision for battery
> operation. You were supposed to pour $$$ worth of dry cells into
> the thing. An optional adapter was available, at $50 !!!
> Well, naturally, being a cheap-skate, I wanted neither dry cells
> nor a $50 adapter.
>
> On the housing of the unit, next to the barrel connector for power,
> it said "7VDC", and had the symbol for center-positive power. So
> I bought a *regulated* 7VDC adapter and plugged it in. I verified
> the adapter made exactly 7V, and it did do that. With a fairly high
> current rating (so not likely to poop out on OC).
>
> So I try to print a label, and... nothing.
>
> So I eventually break down and buy the optional adapter for $50.
> Turns out it is unregulated. At no load, the adapter makes *10V*
> and at the instant the motor cranks the label through the print
> area, the voltage drops down to 7V due to the increased current
> draw.
>
> So it really needed the elevated (unspecified) 10V voltage to make
> the keyboard and display and control chip work.
>
> That lesson taught me, that the specification printed on
> the housing ("7VDC") could be regulated or unregulated, and
> there is no way to know which is appropriate. They kinda got you
> by the nuts.

:-)

Thanks, sounds similar to my current trial experience with ac adapters.
I had to return the first laptop charger because, when connected,
the slightest tap of the plug/barrel/jack can cause the battery to
take over as if the ac adapter were "not" connected.

Maybe this all points back to that less than stellar power supply standard?

With another laptop charger, can't get the battery to
take over no matter how hard I wiggle that barrel plug.


>
> And that's learning by making mistakes.
>
> As for your laptop, I don't see a reason in what I've seen
> in the schematic so far, for there to be a dependency on adapter
> power rating. Your laptop is the 90W design. A 19V adapter
> of 90W or 135W should work. The charging circuit has control
> of what it is doing, and is not dependent on external impedance
> characteristics. The charger chip has slow start (inrush limit),
> so if the adapter is already plugged into the wall and you
> shove the barrel into the laptop jack, the adapter doesn't
> quit on OC. There is a clamp diode near the jack, so if the
> barrel is removed while the adapter is powered, the inductive
> kick-back is quenched. The design has a current sampling shunt,
> which implies the chip can sense the current. And knows if
> too much current is being drawn. And it has a fair number
> of MOSFETs to control various things. As long as MOSFETs are
> saturated (fully ON or fully OFF), they don't get all that
> warm. And that's important. It's easy to burn out a MOSFET
> with no heatsink, by turning it half-ON by design. This is
> why SMPS circuits take turns with MOSFETs fully ON or fully OFF,
> to achieve a desired result. The devices then get warm but
> not hot.
>
> There are adapters that have more than two wires, and that
> immediately makes me suspicious. It implies some form of
> control, or "adapter power rating checking" being done
> by the laptop. That tends to happen with stuff above
> 65W. You're likely to find 65W designs to be pretty simple
> and carefree. Anything above that, you should keep your
> eyes open, and do a bit of Googling to learn of the
> issues.
>
>    Paul

Thanks (Guru Paul), there's no better way to
know the truth than to go straight to the source/schematic.    :-)

It's good to know that my laptop can definitely take
a more powerful (>90W) power supply, but, so far,
the makers of "quality" laptop chargers do not offer
anything more powerful than 90W.  Although,
I think I saw some (120W?) at the store by other makers.
I might go back to look more closely at those more powerful laptop chargers.

So far, I've only come across 2-wire laptop chargers but,
now that I know, I'll watch out for non-2-wire laptop chargers.


0
Adam
10/22/2015 1:43:00 AM
Reply:

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