'Windows 5x More Expensive than Mac OS X'

KILLER article. You won't have to read my usual lecture on the subject. 
Read about it from someone else's point of view:

<http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/660E746C-F388-4AC7-98F5-6CB9515014
72.html>


Windows 5x More Expensive than Mac OS X
Tuesday, August 15, 2006
By Daniel Eran
RoughlyDrafted Magazine

> ... In this article, Ill ignore the software Apple bundles with new Macs and 
> focus only on the actual costs related to keeping the OS up to date, both for 
> Macs and Windows PCs. That includes retail operating system software updates 
> and associated costs.

> ... Each successive major version of Mac OS X has brought significant speed 
> improvements to Mac users� existing hardware.

> At around the same price of my two Mac upgrades, I was less impressed at the 
> upgrade on my ThinkPad. Windows XP was stable, but felt like a minor upgrade. 
> It certainly didn't give me the feel of new hardware the way Mac OS X updates 
> had. If anything, the extra interface fluff just gave my ThinkPad more to do, 
> without really being useful to me.

> By the end of 2003, Microsoft had missed their initial ship date for 
> Longhorn, the next update to Windows XP. The company had started work on 
> Longhorn prior to the release of XP, but had nothing to show for it after 
> three years. At WinHec 2003, Microsoft announced the new Longhorn was delayed 
> but would ship in early 2005.
>  
> In addition to development troubles with Longhorn, mounting security issues 
> with Windows XP required Microsoft to focus on security for its existing 
> product. Microsoft struggled to finish XP Service Pack 2, but didn't deliver 
> it in 2003 either. 


FACTOR #1: Initial cost of each OS, and number of free updates:

> Meanwhile, Apple released nine free updates to Panther.
>
> 2003
> 
>    1. 9 free updates from Apple for Panther, many security updates.
>       Cost: $129.
> 
>    2. 0 services packs for Windows XP, many security updates
>       Cost: $199 upgrade, $299 new; $100 less for limited Home edition.

> The Wall Street Journal reported that Microsoft executives had realized by 
> then that the existing Longhorn project was not going to work.
>
> "Longhorn was irredeemable because Microsoft engineers were building it just 
> as they had always built software. Throughout its history, Microsoft had let 
> thousands of programmers each produce their own piece of computer code, then 
> stitched it together into one sprawling program. Now, Mr. Allchin argued, the 
> jig was up. Microsoft needed to start over."

> Meanwhile, Apple shipped Tiger 10.4 as a major new release, and has issued 
> seven free updates since. The latest version of Mac OS X delivered many of 
> the features promised for Longhorn, which had been officially named Windows 
> Vista.

> Meanwhile, Apple shipped Tiger 10.4 as a major new release, and has issued 
> seven free updates since. The latest version of Mac OS X delivered many of 
> the features promised for Longhorn, which had been officially named Windows 
> Vista.


FACTOR #2: SECURITY

> 2000-2006: Seven Years of Operating System Upgrades
> In retrospect, the cost of operating system upgrades is fairly minimal 
> compared to the utility and performance they provide. Although Microsoft 
> charges twice as much for Windows XP, a more significant factor is the 
> external fees related to working around Window's security problems.
>  
> Maintaining a Windows install is like owning an aging, imported car: the 
> initial sale price pales in comparison to its ongoing maintenance costs. 
> Heres an outline showing how Windows costs users over five times as much as 
> Mac OS X. These numbers arent hypothetical, but rather are based on my own 
> experience, and those of my clients.

> A Mac user since 2000, upgrading to each new version of Mac OS X:
>  
> 
>    1. 
>       $300 in operating system updates, or nearly $400 if purchased at full 
>       retail.
>    2.
>       Three major new releases that significantly improved performance of the 
>       same hardware and introduced new apps.
>    3.
>       Thirty one regular minor updates with bug fixes and new features, in 
>       addition to many security updates.
>    4.
>       No antivirus needed
>    5.
>       No spyware cleaning needed
> 
>    6.
>       Total cost of maintaining Mac OS X software: about $50 a year, or 
>       around $350 since 2000. (Reports of $750 were a mix of Truthiness and 
>       bad math.)

Repeat: $50 per year for Mac maintenance.

> A Professional Windows user since 2000, upgrading at the one opportunity 
> available:
>  
> 
>    1.
>       $200 upgrade to XP Professional, or $300 for a new retail version.
>    2.
>       One major new release that improved reliability but not the performance 
>       of old hardware.
>    3.
>       Two minor service pack updates focused on bugs and security features, 
>       and around fifty security patches since SP2.
>    4.
>       Seven years of AntiVirus 2000 $50, plus $30 for six annual updates = 
>       $230
>    5.
>       Spyware and security cleaning by Geek Squad: a $200 annual servicing 
>       over seven years = $1400
> 
>    6.
>       Total cost of maintaining Windows software: over $250 a year, or more 
>       than $1800 since 2000.

Repeat: $250 per year for Windows maintenance.

> The much lower cost of Mac OS X and Apples far more frequent releases of free 
> updates will be a major selling point next year for users comparing the 
> purchase of a new Mac with Leopard over a new PC with Vista.

Bravo! He got the point.

> Additionally, while Leopard will likely continue to run on the same Macs as 
> Tiger (anything modern enough to have built in Firewire), Vista will require 
> a new PC to run, likely something from the last year and a half.

As expected: Want to use all of Vista's features, such as they are? You 
need a recent PC.

> There are six versions of Vista in all, differentiated by artificial product 
> limitations.

Be sure to read the previous post about the leaked pricing for Vista, 
and gag.

:-D

-- 
Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease 
of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.
<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/12/12/8363107/>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He spearheaded 
the movement to modernize computer software engineering in 1975]
0
derekcurrie (1153)
8/30/2006 3:27:34 AM
comp.sys.mac.advocacy 33434 articles. 2 followers. Post Follow

21 Replies
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Completely snipped ... if you can't go back and read it, get a real 
newsreader.

A couple of things.

In the cost per year for Win maintenance, some will be here to say it should 
be zero, as they have no malware software (or non-free) and have no problems. 
That is okay for some people -- heck, I'm now a Maccie, and I don't use such 
protection in Windows either (yes, I know, condom, Haiti, Girl Scouts, I get 
it).

About Vista not running on older/newer machines, Windroids will be all over 
this one. "Will it run?" might be a yes, but "will it suck?" is subjective.

0
no-spam2 (6831)
8/30/2006 4:04:33 AM
"Tim Murray" <no-spam@thankyou.com> stated in post
0001HW.C11A8691000817CCF0182648@newsgroups.bellsouth.net on 8/29/06 9:04 PM:

> Completely snipped ... if you can't go back and read it, get a real
> newsreader.
> 
> A couple of things.
> 
> In the cost per year for Win maintenance, some will be here to say it should
> be zero, as they have no malware software (or non-free) and have no problems.
> That is okay for some people -- heck, I'm now a Maccie, and I don't use such
> protection in Windows either (yes, I know, condom, Haiti, Girl Scouts, I get
> it).
> 
> About Vista not running on older/newer machines, Windroids will be all over
> this one. "Will it run?" might be a yes, but "will it suck?" is subjective.
> 
Anyone not running anti-malware software on Windows is asking for trouble,
but, yes, you can get such software for free.

Then again, if time is of value to you, even it is not free... and if you
run a business it is not free.

-- 
� Different viruses are still different even if in the same "family"
� Dreamweaver and GoLive are professional web development applications
��Dreamweaver, being the #1 pro web design tool, is used by many pros




0
SNIT (24281)
8/30/2006 5:24:40 AM
In article <0001HW.C11A8691000817CCF0182648@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>,
 Tim Murray <no-spam@thankyou.com> wrote:

> Completely snipped ... if you can't go back and read it, get a real 
> newsreader.
> 
> A couple of things.
> 
> In the cost per year for Win maintenance, some will be here to say it should 
> be zero, as they have no malware software (or non-free) and have no problems. 
> That is okay for some people -- heck, I'm now a Maccie, and I don't use such 
> protection in Windows either (yes, I know, condom, Haiti, Girl Scouts, I get 
> it).

No one can stop you from artificially inflating the cost of Windows by 
including unnecessary things. Just don't be surprised when others refuse 
to accept it.

> About Vista not running on older/newer machines, Windroids will be all over 
> this one. "Will it run?" might be a yes, but "will it suck?" is subjective.

This is a really a non-issue. If you have an older PC that's not likely 
to run Vista well you'd probably be better off purchasing a new PC for 
slightly more than the cost of Vista.

Josh
0
jtmckee (1128)
8/30/2006 9:01:29 PM
In article <jtmckee-5A5341.15012930082006@netnews.comcast.net>,
 Josh McKee <jtmckee@rmac.net> wrote:

> > About Vista not running on older/newer machines, Windroids will be all over 
> > this one. "Will it run?" might be a yes, but "will it suck?" is subjective.
> 
> This is a really a non-issue. If you have an older PC that's not likely 
> to run Vista well you'd probably be better off purchasing a new PC for 
> slightly more than the cost of Vista.

No Josh. You have not been doing your reading about Vista. The el cheapo 
crappo PC machines for $499, or whatever junk celeron machine you have 
in mind, are NOT going to run Vista well. No way are you going to get 
any bells and whistles working on the OS. You might as well stick with 
XP. AND I expect an awful lot of people will.

As far as I am concerned, the 'will it suck' question is the same 
question as 'will the PC running it be able to use ALL of Vista's new 
features.'

How many people are going to be satisfied running Vista knowing that 
they are missing part of the show, that they have compromised Vista 
functionality on their machine because it isn't powerful enough?

Which leads to the question 'will Vista suck on ALL PCs?' Considering 
the raft of features that have been dumped from the original project, 
the answer might well be 'yes'. Maybe the original Longhorn might have 
been worth the prices they are asking. What does that say about paying 
the same price for Vista instead?

We already know that the new Internet Explorer is just more of the same 
old sh*t; more proprietary crap built in that breaks Internet standards; 
more security holes that invite malware.

Speaking of security in general, so far the much vaunted improvements in 
Windows security in Vista have yet to show themselves. Instead we have 
Microsoft taking the parasite metaphor even further by offering for pay 
a service to protect your computer from the ramifications of the 
security vulnerabilities they failed to fix themselves in Vista. This is 
extremely SICK stuff they are pulling here. It is unacceptable.

:-P

-- 
Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease 
of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.
<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/12/12/8363107/>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He spearheaded 
the movement to modernize computer software engineering in 1975]
0
derekcurrie (1153)
9/3/2006 3:58:16 AM
In article 
<derekcurrie-540C64.00065603092006@syrcnyrdrs-03-ge0.nyroc.rr.com>,
 Derek Currie <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote:

> In article <jtmckee-5A5341.15012930082006@netnews.comcast.net>,
>  Josh McKee <jtmckee@rmac.net> wrote:
> 
> > > About Vista not running on older/newer machines, Windroids will be all 
> > > over 
> > > this one. "Will it run?" might be a yes, but "will it suck?" is 
> > > subjective.
> > 
> > This is a really a non-issue. If you have an older PC that's not likely 
> > to run Vista well you'd probably be better off purchasing a new PC for 
> > slightly more than the cost of Vista.
> 
> No Josh. You have not been doing your reading about Vista.

Not only have I read about it I've actually used it. Have you?

> The el cheapo crappo PC machines for $499, or whatever junk celeron machine
> you have in mind, are NOT going to run Vista well.

I've tested it on two systems:

1. A 700MHz Pentium III with 512MB RAM.
2. A 1.7GHz Pentium IV with 1GB RAM.

The first system was completely unusable. Too much swapping. The second 
was an OK performer. Given that both are at minimum four years old, and 
Vista is still beta, I don't see a problem with an entry level PC 
running Vista. Sure these systems won't get the fancy interface but 
that's what you get buying a $300.00 system.

> No way are you going to get any bells and whistles working on the OS.

One has to ask: Do people buying a $300.00 PC want bells and whistles?

> You might as well stick with XP. AND I expect an awful lot of people will.

I haven't even moved to Windows XP. I'm still using Windows 2000. And I 
only see myself upgrading once I buy a new PC. I don't see any real 
value in Vista over what I have now.

> As far as I am concerned, the 'will it suck' question is the same 
> question as 'will the PC running it be able to use ALL of Vista's new 
> features.'

Why are you insisting every PC have to utilize all of Vista's features?

> How many people are going to be satisfied running Vista knowing that 
> they are missing part of the show, that they have compromised Vista 
> functionality on their machine because it isn't powerful enough?

I would hope none because then they bought the wrong system. But that 
would be their fault.

> Which leads to the question 'will Vista suck on ALL PCs?' Considering 
> the raft of features that have been dumped from the original project, 
> the answer might well be 'yes'. Maybe the original Longhorn might have 
> been worth the prices they are asking. What does that say about paying 
> the same price for Vista instead?

I don't see a lot of value in moving to Vista. I think that its resource 
requirements are too high given the "improvements". I can't for the life 
of me figure out why this OS requires a minimum of 512MB of RAM, which 
my testing shows to be completely unusable...but it is beta, for what it 
offers. Personally I won't be moving to it. But if I didn't already have 
a PC then I wouldn't have any issues buying an entry level PC with Vista.

> We already know that the new Internet Explorer is just more of the same 
> old sh*t; more proprietary crap built in that breaks Internet standards; 
> more security holes that invite malware.

Apparently you don't know.

> Speaking of security in general, so far the much vaunted improvements in 
> Windows security in Vista have yet to show themselves. Instead we have 
> Microsoft taking the parasite metaphor even further by offering for pay 
> a service to protect your computer from the ramifications of the 
> security vulnerabilities they failed to fix themselves in Vista. This is 
> extremely SICK stuff they are pulling here. It is unacceptable.

We don't know what the security record of Vista is as it has not been 
field tested. Therefore any conclusions you have are not valid.

Josh
0
jtmckee (1128)
9/3/2006 1:30:11 PM
"Josh McKee" <jtmckee@rmac.net> stated in post
jtmckee-790352.07301103092006@netnews.comcast.net on 9/3/06 6:30 AM:

>> How many people are going to be satisfied running Vista knowing that
>> they are missing part of the show, that they have compromised Vista
>> functionality on their machine because it isn't powerful enough?
> 
> I would hope none because then they bought the wrong system. But that
> would be their fault.

Yeah, they should have just gotten a Mac.  :)

-- 
� Teaching is a "real job"
��The path "~/users/username/library/widget" is not common on any OS
� The term "all widgets" does not specify a specific subgroup of widgets




0
SNIT (24281)
9/3/2006 1:44:39 PM
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 03:58:16 GMT, Derek Currie
<derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote:

>No Josh. You have not been doing your reading about Vista. The el cheapo 
>crappo PC machines for $499, or whatever junk celeron machine you have 
>in mind, are NOT going to run Vista well. No way are you going to get 
>any bells and whistles working on the OS. You might as well stick with 
>XP. AND I expect an awful lot of people will.
>
>As far as I am concerned, the 'will it suck' question is the same 
>question as 'will the PC running it be able to use ALL of Vista's new 
>features.'

Are you running RC1?  If not, try it before mouthing off, eh?  
0
John2958 (100)
9/8/2006 2:09:50 AM
In article <7bk1g251t69q8opsqs5mfsiib79dinpesn@4ax.com>,
 John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 03:58:16 GMT, Derek Currie
> <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote:
> 
> >No Josh. You have not been doing your reading about Vista. The el cheapo 
> >crappo PC machines for $499, or whatever junk celeron machine you have 
> >in mind, are NOT going to run Vista well. No way are you going to get 
> >any bells and whistles working on the OS. You might as well stick with 
> >XP. AND I expect an awful lot of people will.
> >
> >As far as I am concerned, the 'will it suck' question is the same 
> >question as 'will the PC running it be able to use ALL of Vista's new 
> >features.'
> 
> Are you running RC1?  If not, try it before mouthing off, eh?

And your pointless comment negates my important point how? All anyone 
has to do is READ the spec requirements for Vista. I'll mouth off all I 
like when I see MS pulling yet another fast one on their used users.

And what are you going to do when my 'will it suck' question is proven 
true in the marketplace and users learn from the lusers that Vista is 
not worth the price for their now legacy hardware? Apologize?

:-P

-- 
Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease 
of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.
<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/12/12/8363107/>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He spearheaded 
the movement to modernize computer software engineering in 1975]
0
derekcurrie (1153)
9/16/2006 3:25:39 PM
"Derek Currie" <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:derekcurrie-22B53B.11253816092006@syrcnyrdrs-03-ge0.nyroc.rr.com...
>> Are you running RC1?  If not, try it before mouthing off, eh?
>
> And your pointless comment negates my important point how?

Except that your "important point" is wrong.  A $500 PC is more than capable 
of running Vista just fine.   A $500 PC today (NOT a $500 package that 
includes a 17" LCD monitor and color printer!) has plenty of power to run 
Vista.    Hell, I installed Vista on a 1 Ghz P3/ 512 MB RAM machine at work 
for testing our stuff with.   Works fine.   With a better video card (all I 
could scrounge up was a 64 meg Radeon 7500 - which ATI is *not* supporting 
Aero Glass on) I would have all of the eye candy also.

Please learn something before you spout off your "Mac Advocate" bullshit.

Mike

0
no646 (1056)
9/16/2006 3:45:33 PM
In article 
<derekcurrie-22B53B.11253816092006@syrcnyrdrs-03-ge0.nyroc.rr.com>,
 Derek Currie <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote:

> In article <7bk1g251t69q8opsqs5mfsiib79dinpesn@4ax.com>,
>  John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 03:58:16 GMT, Derek Currie
> > <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote:
> > 
> > >No Josh. You have not been doing your reading about Vista. The el cheapo 
> > >crappo PC machines for $499, or whatever junk celeron machine you have 
> > >in mind, are NOT going to run Vista well. No way are you going to get 
> > >any bells and whistles working on the OS. You might as well stick with 
> > >XP. AND I expect an awful lot of people will.
> > >
> > >As far as I am concerned, the 'will it suck' question is the same 
> > >question as 'will the PC running it be able to use ALL of Vista's new 
> > >features.'
> > 
> > Are you running RC1?  If not, try it before mouthing off, eh?
> 
> And your pointless comment negates my important point how? All anyone 
> has to do is READ the spec requirements for Vista. I'll mouth off all I 
> like when I see MS pulling yet another fast one on their used users.

Why should anyone take what you say with any credibility if you're 
unwilling to use it?

> And what are you going to do when my 'will it suck' question is proven 
> true in the marketplace and users learn from the lusers that Vista is 
> not worth the price for their now legacy hardware? Apologize?

Define "legacy hardware". I installed Vista RC1 on my 700MHz ThinkPad 
T20 with 512MB of memory. I have to say that I am pleased with its 
performance (given how horrible it was under beta 2). If this system can 
run Vista RC1 reasonably well then I think your referring to some 
considerably older equipment. At which point you'd likely be better off 
buying a new system anyway.

Josh
0
jtmckee (1128)
9/16/2006 4:28:20 PM
On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 15:25:39 GMT, Derek Currie
<derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote:

>In article <7bk1g251t69q8opsqs5mfsiib79dinpesn@4ax.com>,
> John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 03:58:16 GMT, Derek Currie
>> <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>> >No Josh. You have not been doing your reading about Vista. The el cheapo 
>> >crappo PC machines for $499, or whatever junk celeron machine you have 
>> >in mind, are NOT going to run Vista well. No way are you going to get 
>> >any bells and whistles working on the OS. You might as well stick with 
>> >XP. AND I expect an awful lot of people will.
>> >
>> >As far as I am concerned, the 'will it suck' question is the same 
>> >question as 'will the PC running it be able to use ALL of Vista's new 
>> >features.'
>> 
>> Are you running RC1?  If not, try it before mouthing off, eh?
>
>And your pointless comment negates my important point how? All anyone 
>has to do is READ the spec requirements for Vista. I'll mouth off all I 
>like when I see MS pulling yet another fast one on their used users.
>
>And what are you going to do when my 'will it suck' question is proven 
>true in the marketplace and users learn from the lusers that Vista is 
>not worth the price for their now legacy hardware? Apologize?

Your point isn't correct, so what's the point in refuting it?  Try it.
Get a cheap $250 PC (or a $539 Dell Core 2 Duo desktop, if you want to
splurge), add some RAM to take it to a gig or so, and tell us how well
it works.  RC1 is free.  What are you waiting for?
0
John2958 (100)
9/16/2006 5:17:07 PM
In article <k9cog2lcsoqijdte8n2nplavsl30liehd2@4ax.com>,
 John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:

> Your point isn't correct, so what's the point in refuting it?  Try it.
> Get a cheap $250 PC (or a $539 Dell Core 2 Duo desktop, if you want to
> splurge), add some RAM to take it to a gig or so, and tell us how well
> it works.  RC1 is free.  What are you waiting for?

Post the specs of your cheap crap PC, mentioned above, and put them 
right next to the spec recommendations for Vista. Go on. I'll wait...

;-D

-- 
Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease 
of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.
<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/12/12/8363107/>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He spearheaded 
the movement to modernize computer software engineering in 1975]
0
derekcurrie (1153)
9/18/2006 2:54:53 AM
"Derek Currie" <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:derekcurrie-CBFB5B.22545217092006@syrcnyrdrs-01-ge0.nyroc.rr.com...
> In article <k9cog2lcsoqijdte8n2nplavsl30liehd2@4ax.com>,
> John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:
>
>> Your point isn't correct, so what's the point in refuting it?  Try 
>> it.
>> Get a cheap $250 PC (or a $539 Dell Core 2 Duo desktop, if you want 
>> to
>> splurge), add some RAM to take it to a gig or so, and tell us how 
>> well
>> it works.  RC1 is free.  What are you waiting for?
>
> Post the specs of your cheap crap PC, mentioned above, and put them
> right next to the spec recommendations for Vista. Go on. I'll wait...
>
> ;-D

Do you really think a PC as spec'd below would be expensive?

A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:

  a.. 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor1.
  b.. 1 GB of system memory.
  c.. Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of 
graphics memory (minimum)2, Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.
  d.. 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
  e.. DVD-ROM Drive3.
  f.. Audio output capability.
  g.. Internet access capability.
$689 will get you a Dell E521 system that meets or exceeds these Vista 
"Premium Ready" specs, and includes an upgraded 17" UltraSharp flat 
panel monitor.

PROCESSOR   AMD Athlon� 64 3200+
OPERATING SYSTEM   Genuine Windows� XP Media Center Edition 2005
MEMORY    1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
HARD DRIVE   80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache�
OPTICAL DRIVE   16x DVD+/-RW Drive
MONITORS    17 inch Ultrasharp� 1707FP Digital Flat Panel
VIDEO CARD    256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
SOUND CARD    Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio

Steve


0
steve13 (4870)
9/18/2006 4:02:16 AM
In article <GMGdnUTxSO_Rh5PYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com>,
 "Steven de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:

> "Derek Currie" <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:derekcurrie-CBFB5B.22545217092006@syrcnyrdrs-01-ge0.nyroc.rr.com...
> > In article <k9cog2lcsoqijdte8n2nplavsl30liehd2@4ax.com>,
> > John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Your point isn't correct, so what's the point in refuting it?  Try 
> >> it.
> >> Get a cheap $250 PC (or a $539 Dell Core 2 Duo desktop, if you want 
> >> to
> >> splurge), add some RAM to take it to a gig or so, and tell us how 
> >> well
> >> it works.  RC1 is free.  What are you waiting for?
> >
> > Post the specs of your cheap crap PC, mentioned above, and put them
> > right next to the spec recommendations for Vista. Go on. I'll wait...
> >
> > ;-D
> 
> Do you really think a PC as spec'd below would be expensive?
> 
> A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:
> 
>   a.. 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor1.
>   b.. 1 GB of system memory.
>   c.. Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of 
> graphics memory (minimum)2, Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.
>   d.. 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
>   e.. DVD-ROM Drive3.
>   f.. Audio output capability.
>   g.. Internet access capability.
> $689 will get you a Dell E521 system that meets or exceeds these Vista 
> "Premium Ready" specs, and includes an upgraded 17" UltraSharp flat 
> panel monitor.
> 
> PROCESSOR   AMD Athlon� 64 3200+
> OPERATING SYSTEM   Genuine Windows� XP Media Center Edition 2005
> MEMORY    1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
> HARD DRIVE   80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache�
> OPTICAL DRIVE   16x DVD+/-RW Drive
> MONITORS    17 inch Ultrasharp� 1707FP Digital Flat Panel
> VIDEO CARD    256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
> SOUND CARD    Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
> 
> Steve
> 

I'll admit that its a lot of box for the money (if that's what you're 
after), but, Steve, if one doesn't value Windows, then its really not 
much of a bargain is it?
0
gmgraves (7483)
9/18/2006 4:24:26 AM
"George Graves" <gmgraves@pacbell.net> wrote in message 
news:gmgraves-E5A124.21242817092006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <GMGdnUTxSO_Rh5PYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Steven de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>
>> "Derek Currie" <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:derekcurrie-CBFB5B.22545217092006@syrcnyrdrs-01-ge0.nyroc.rr.com...
>> > In article <k9cog2lcsoqijdte8n2nplavsl30liehd2@4ax.com>,
>> > John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Your point isn't correct, so what's the point in refuting it?  Try
>> >> it.
>> >> Get a cheap $250 PC (or a $539 Dell Core 2 Duo desktop, if you 
>> >> want
>> >> to
>> >> splurge), add some RAM to take it to a gig or so, and tell us how
>> >> well
>> >> it works.  RC1 is free.  What are you waiting for?
>> >
>> > Post the specs of your cheap crap PC, mentioned above, and put them
>> > right next to the spec recommendations for Vista. Go on. I'll 
>> > wait...
>> >
>> > ;-D
>>
>> Do you really think a PC as spec'd below would be expensive?
>>
>> A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:
>>
>>   a.. 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor1.
>>   b.. 1 GB of system memory.
>>   c.. Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of
>> graphics memory (minimum)2, Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.
>>   d.. 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
>>   e.. DVD-ROM Drive3.
>>   f.. Audio output capability.
>>   g.. Internet access capability.
>> $689 will get you a Dell E521 system that meets or exceeds these 
>> Vista
>> "Premium Ready" specs, and includes an upgraded 17" UltraSharp flat
>> panel monitor.
>>
>> PROCESSOR   AMD Athlon� 64 3200+
>> OPERATING SYSTEM   Genuine Windows� XP Media Center Edition 2005
>> MEMORY    1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
>> HARD DRIVE   80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache�
>> OPTICAL DRIVE   16x DVD+/-RW Drive
>> MONITORS    17 inch Ultrasharp� 1707FP Digital Flat Panel
>> VIDEO CARD    256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
>> SOUND CARD    Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> I'll admit that its a lot of box for the money (if that's what you're
> after), but, Steve, if one doesn't value Windows, then its really not
> much of a bargain is it?

Yes, that is true.

Steve


0
steve13 (4870)
9/18/2006 4:38:10 AM
In article <P9CdnR2Nd9Aov5PYnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
 "Steven de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:

> "George Graves" <gmgraves@pacbell.net> wrote in message 
> news:gmgraves-E5A124.21242817092006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> > In article <GMGdnUTxSO_Rh5PYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> > "Steven de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Derek Currie" <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message
> >> news:derekcurrie-CBFB5B.22545217092006@syrcnyrdrs-01-ge0.nyroc.rr.com...
> >> > In article <k9cog2lcsoqijdte8n2nplavsl30liehd2@4ax.com>,
> >> > John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Your point isn't correct, so what's the point in refuting it?  Try
> >> >> it.
> >> >> Get a cheap $250 PC (or a $539 Dell Core 2 Duo desktop, if you 
> >> >> want
> >> >> to
> >> >> splurge), add some RAM to take it to a gig or so, and tell us how
> >> >> well
> >> >> it works.  RC1 is free.  What are you waiting for?
> >> >
> >> > Post the specs of your cheap crap PC, mentioned above, and put them
> >> > right next to the spec recommendations for Vista. Go on. I'll 
> >> > wait...
> >> >
> >> > ;-D
> >>
> >> Do you really think a PC as spec'd below would be expensive?
> >>
> >> A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:
> >>
> >>   a.. 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor1.
> >>   b.. 1 GB of system memory.
> >>   c.. Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of
> >> graphics memory (minimum)2, Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.
> >>   d.. 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
> >>   e.. DVD-ROM Drive3.
> >>   f.. Audio output capability.
> >>   g.. Internet access capability.
> >> $689 will get you a Dell E521 system that meets or exceeds these 
> >> Vista
> >> "Premium Ready" specs, and includes an upgraded 17" UltraSharp flat
> >> panel monitor.
> >>
> >> PROCESSOR   AMD Athlon� 64 3200+
> >> OPERATING SYSTEM   Genuine Windows� XP Media Center Edition 2005
> >> MEMORY    1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
> >> HARD DRIVE   80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache�
> >> OPTICAL DRIVE   16x DVD+/-RW Drive
> >> MONITORS    17 inch Ultrasharp� 1707FP Digital Flat Panel
> >> VIDEO CARD    256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
> >> SOUND CARD    Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >
> > I'll admit that its a lot of box for the money (if that's what you're
> > after), but, Steve, if one doesn't value Windows, then its really not
> > much of a bargain is it?
> 
> Yes, that is true.
> 
> Steve

Well, that seems to be the entire bone of contention between the Mac 
advocates here and the Windows advocates. The "Windows fans'" entire 
argument of late is that Macs of the same or similar spec are more 
expensive than Windows boxes. The point that all seem to ignore is that 
Windows is not of any use to Mac advocates, irrespective of how good a 
"bargain" any machine by Dell et al, might be. Your admission above that 
you agree with that point, leads me to the question (and please do not 
misunderstand me, I 'm not trying to be contentious here) of what (if, 
indeed you realize that Mac users don't care one whit about how cheaply 
one can buy a nice Winbox) you expect to prove by posting info like the 
above?
0
gmgraves (7483)
9/18/2006 5:11:17 AM
In article <12go70r93aqk46@news.supernews.com>, "Mike" <no@where.man> 
wrote:

> "Derek Currie" <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:derekcurrie-22B53B.11253816092006@syrcnyrdrs-03-ge0.nyroc.rr.com...
> >> Are you running RC1?  If not, try it before mouthing off, eh?
> >
> > And your pointless comment negates my important point how?
> 
> Except that your "important point" is wrong.  A $500 PC is more than capable 
> of running Vista just fine.   A $500 PC today (NOT a $500 package that 
> includes a 17" LCD monitor and color printer!) has plenty of power to run 
> Vista.    Hell, I installed Vista on a 1 Ghz P3/ 512 MB RAM machine at work 
> for testing our stuff with.   Works fine.   With a better video card (all I 
> could scrounge up was a 64 meg Radeon 7500 - which ATI is *not* supporting 
> Aero Glass on) I would have all of the eye candy also.
> 
> Please learn something before you spout off your "Mac Advocate" bullshit.

And what exactly are YOU supposed to be Mike? I know: Just another 
troll. So please do us a favor and go masturbate elsewhere.


Sorry folks. I stand by my 'bullshit' important point. The truth well be 
in the telling, and that happens whenever they get the actual final 
release of Vista out on the street and we see what people with the cheap 
and legacy computers think about the Vista resource hog. 

And no, I couldn't care less about playing with RC1 or wasting money on 
one of your cheap (in all respects) PCs. It is nice to hear your stories 
of your experiences, but by no means do I think your stories represent 
what is going to be the reality for the masses when Vista hits town.

I expect one thing: Disappointment.

Thus ends my 'mouthing off' on the subject until such time as the 
commercial release of Vista is more than years delayed, feature stripped 
vaporware.

:-D

-- 
Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease 
of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.
<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/12/12/8363107/>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He spearheaded 
the movement to modernize computer software engineering in 1975]
0
derekcurrie (1153)
9/18/2006 5:19:12 AM
"George Graves" <gmgraves@pacbell.net> wrote in message 
news:gmgraves-01C2E2.22111817092006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <P9CdnR2Nd9Aov5PYnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Steven de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>
>> "George Graves" <gmgraves@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:gmgraves-E5A124.21242817092006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
>> > In article <GMGdnUTxSO_Rh5PYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com>,
>> > "Steven de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Derek Currie" <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message
>> >> news:derekcurrie-CBFB5B.22545217092006@syrcnyrdrs-01-ge0.nyroc.rr.com...
>> >> > In article <k9cog2lcsoqijdte8n2nplavsl30liehd2@4ax.com>,
>> >> > John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Your point isn't correct, so what's the point in refuting it? 
>> >> >> Try
>> >> >> it.
>> >> >> Get a cheap $250 PC (or a $539 Dell Core 2 Duo desktop, if you
>> >> >> want
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> splurge), add some RAM to take it to a gig or so, and tell us 
>> >> >> how
>> >> >> well
>> >> >> it works.  RC1 is free.  What are you waiting for?
>> >> >
>> >> > Post the specs of your cheap crap PC, mentioned above, and put 
>> >> > them
>> >> > right next to the spec recommendations for Vista. Go on. I'll
>> >> > wait...
>> >> >
>> >> > ;-D
>> >>
>> >> Do you really think a PC as spec'd below would be expensive?
>> >>
>> >> A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:
>> >>
>> >>   a.. 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor1.
>> >>   b.. 1 GB of system memory.
>> >>   c.. Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of
>> >> graphics memory (minimum)2, Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per 
>> >> pixel.
>> >>   d.. 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
>> >>   e.. DVD-ROM Drive3.
>> >>   f.. Audio output capability.
>> >>   g.. Internet access capability.
>> >> $689 will get you a Dell E521 system that meets or exceeds these
>> >> Vista
>> >> "Premium Ready" specs, and includes an upgraded 17" UltraSharp 
>> >> flat
>> >> panel monitor.
>> >>
>> >> PROCESSOR   AMD Athlon� 64 3200+
>> >> OPERATING SYSTEM   Genuine Windows� XP Media Center Edition 2005
>> >> MEMORY    1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
>> >> HARD DRIVE   80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst 
>> >> Cache�
>> >> OPTICAL DRIVE   16x DVD+/-RW Drive
>> >> MONITORS    17 inch Ultrasharp� 1707FP Digital Flat Panel
>> >> VIDEO CARD    256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
>> >> SOUND CARD    Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >>
>> >
>> > I'll admit that its a lot of box for the money (if that's what 
>> > you're
>> > after), but, Steve, if one doesn't value Windows, then its really 
>> > not
>> > much of a bargain is it?
>>
>> Yes, that is true.
>>
>> Steve
>
> Well, that seems to be the entire bone of contention between the Mac
> advocates here and the Windows advocates. The "Windows fans'" entire
> argument of late is that Macs of the same or similar spec are more
> expensive than Windows boxes. The point that all seem to ignore is 
> that
> Windows is not of any use to Mac advocates, irrespective of how good a
> "bargain" any machine by Dell et al, might be. Your admission above 
> that
> you agree with that point, leads me to the question (and please do not
> misunderstand me, I 'm not trying to be contentious here) of what (if,
> indeed you realize that Mac users don't care one whit about how 
> cheaply
> one can buy a nice Winbox) you expect to prove by posting info like 
> the
> above?

I was just refuting Mr. Derek Currie's assumption that a Vista ready PC 
could not be had cheaply.

Lately I have seen many more "Mac Fans" trot out the Mac Pro prices 
(again and again) to show how a Dell is more expensive.

Personally I do feel that generally a Mac is a more expensive 
proposition than a PC, but that gap is narrowing. (The resale value is 
also higher, though!) As my last two computer purchases have been Macs 
there were obviously factors that outweighed price.

Steve


0
steve13 (4870)
9/18/2006 5:22:19 AM
"George Graves" <gmgraves@pacbell.net> stated in post
gmgraves-01C2E2.22111817092006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com on 9/17/06 10:11
PM:

>>> I'll admit that its a lot of box for the money (if that's what you're
>>> after), but, Steve, if one doesn't value Windows, then its really not
>>> much of a bargain is it?
>> 
>> Yes, that is true.
>> 
>> Steve
> 
> Well, that seems to be the entire bone of contention between the Mac
> advocates here and the Windows advocates. The "Windows fans'" entire
> argument of late is that Macs of the same or similar spec are more
> expensive than Windows boxes. The point that all seem to ignore is that
> Windows is not of any use to Mac advocates, irrespective of how good a
> "bargain" any machine by Dell et al, might be. Your admission above that
> you agree with that point, leads me to the question (and please do not
> misunderstand me, I 'm not trying to be contentious here) of what (if,
> indeed you realize that Mac users don't care one whit about how cheaply
> one can buy a nice Winbox) you expect to prove by posting info like the
> above?

A couple points, George:

1) I prefer OS X to XP.  For my needs, and, I believe, for the needs of most
non-gamer home users, it is a better system.  XP, however, is also a good
system, and if Apple was pricing OS X machines out of the market that would
be a bad thing.

2) Many users who are looking at computers may be thinking of OS X but not
willing to go there if it comes in a far more expensive package...
especially if on paper the XP machine offers a lot more.

-- 
� Teaching is a "real job"
��The path "~/users/username/library/widget" is not common on any OS
� The term "all widgets" does not specify a specific subgroup of widgets




0
SNIT (24281)
9/18/2006 5:39:53 AM
In article <zY6dnTrDJ-aQsJPYnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
 "Steven de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:

> "George Graves" <gmgraves@pacbell.net> wrote in message 
> news:gmgraves-01C2E2.22111817092006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> > In article <P9CdnR2Nd9Aov5PYnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> > "Steven de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "George Graves" <gmgraves@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> >> news:gmgraves-E5A124.21242817092006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> >> > In article <GMGdnUTxSO_Rh5PYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> >> > "Steven de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Derek Currie" <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message
> >> >> news:derekcurrie-CBFB5B.22545217092006@syrcnyrdrs-01-ge0.nyroc.rr.com...
> >> >> > In article <k9cog2lcsoqijdte8n2nplavsl30liehd2@4ax.com>,
> >> >> > John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Your point isn't correct, so what's the point in refuting it? 
> >> >> >> Try
> >> >> >> it.
> >> >> >> Get a cheap $250 PC (or a $539 Dell Core 2 Duo desktop, if you
> >> >> >> want
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> splurge), add some RAM to take it to a gig or so, and tell us 
> >> >> >> how
> >> >> >> well
> >> >> >> it works.  RC1 is free.  What are you waiting for?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Post the specs of your cheap crap PC, mentioned above, and put 
> >> >> > them
> >> >> > right next to the spec recommendations for Vista. Go on. I'll
> >> >> > wait...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ;-D
> >> >>
> >> >> Do you really think a PC as spec'd below would be expensive?
> >> >>
> >> >> A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:
> >> >>
> >> >>   a.. 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor1.
> >> >>   b.. 1 GB of system memory.
> >> >>   c.. Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of
> >> >> graphics memory (minimum)2, Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per 
> >> >> pixel.
> >> >>   d.. 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
> >> >>   e.. DVD-ROM Drive3.
> >> >>   f.. Audio output capability.
> >> >>   g.. Internet access capability.
> >> >> $689 will get you a Dell E521 system that meets or exceeds these
> >> >> Vista
> >> >> "Premium Ready" specs, and includes an upgraded 17" UltraSharp 
> >> >> flat
> >> >> panel monitor.
> >> >>
> >> >> PROCESSOR   AMD Athlon� 64 3200+
> >> >> OPERATING SYSTEM   Genuine Windows� XP Media Center Edition 2005
> >> >> MEMORY    1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
> >> >> HARD DRIVE   80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst 
> >> >> Cache�
> >> >> OPTICAL DRIVE   16x DVD+/-RW Drive
> >> >> MONITORS    17 inch Ultrasharp� 1707FP Digital Flat Panel
> >> >> VIDEO CARD    256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
> >> >> SOUND CARD    Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
> >> >>
> >> >> Steve
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > I'll admit that its a lot of box for the money (if that's what 
> >> > you're
> >> > after), but, Steve, if one doesn't value Windows, then its really 
> >> > not
> >> > much of a bargain is it?
> >>
> >> Yes, that is true.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >
> > Well, that seems to be the entire bone of contention between the Mac
> > advocates here and the Windows advocates. The "Windows fans'" entire
> > argument of late is that Macs of the same or similar spec are more
> > expensive than Windows boxes. The point that all seem to ignore is 
> > that
> > Windows is not of any use to Mac advocates, irrespective of how good a
> > "bargain" any machine by Dell et al, might be. Your admission above 
> > that
> > you agree with that point, leads me to the question (and please do not
> > misunderstand me, I 'm not trying to be contentious here) of what (if,
> > indeed you realize that Mac users don't care one whit about how 
> > cheaply
> > one can buy a nice Winbox) you expect to prove by posting info like 
> > the
> > above?
> 
> I was just refuting Mr. Derek Currie's assumption that a Vista ready PC 
> could not be had cheaply.
> 
> Lately I have seen many more "Mac Fans" trot out the Mac Pro prices 
> (again and again) to show how a Dell is more expensive.
> 
> Personally I do feel that generally a Mac is a more expensive 
> proposition than a PC, but that gap is narrowing. (The resale value is 
> also higher, though!) As my last two computer purchases have been Macs 
> there were obviously factors that outweighed price.
> 
> Steve

Thank you.
0
gmgraves (7483)
9/18/2006 6:24:43 AM
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 02:54:53 GMT, Derek Currie
<derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote:

>In article <k9cog2lcsoqijdte8n2nplavsl30liehd2@4ax.com>,
> John Smith <john@smith.com> wrote:
>
>> Your point isn't correct, so what's the point in refuting it?  Try it.
>> Get a cheap $250 PC (or a $539 Dell Core 2 Duo desktop, if you want to
>> splurge), add some RAM to take it to a gig or so, and tell us how well
>> it works.  RC1 is free.  What are you waiting for?
>
>Post the specs of your cheap crap PC, mentioned above, and put them 
>right next to the spec recommendations for Vista. Go on. I'll wait...

Post the specs for Vista, then look at what GotApex shows for the Dell
9200 desktop at $539.  
0
John2958 (100)
9/19/2006 3:25:19 AM
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Weekly Statistics for comp.os.linux.advocacy. 4/9/2009 #2
Weekly Statistics for comp.os.linux.advocacy. 4/9/2009 Number of threads ................... 420 Number of articles .................. 2394 Average articles per thread ......... 5.70 Number of unanswered posts .......... 290 Top Threads Ranking Articles Subject ------- -------- ---------------------------- 1 176 Re: [News] [Rival] Microsoft is Dying in Debt... Shuts Down MSN Encarta 2 169 When 13-year old Tux-playing girls speak, the Linux "community" listens 3 128 IBM takeover of Sun Micro just days away 4 73 Re: Wh...

=?windows-1252?Q?www=2Eelectronics=2Dmac=2Dsony=2Ecom_Toshiba_Satellite_A215=2D?= =?windows-1252?Q?S6804_15=2E4=22_Laptop_=28AMD_Turion_64_X_2_Dual_Core_TL=2D60_Process?= =?windows-1252?Q?or=2C_
http://www.electronics-mac-sony.com Contact us : 7*24 hour On-line service: MSN/Email:electronics-2008-china@hotmail.com Our website:http://www.electronics-mac-sony.com/goods.php?id=3D712 Product Features and Technical Details Product Features * Bright 15.4-inch LCD stylishly accented with an onyx blue metallic LCD cover and integrated Webcam * 2.0 GHz AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-60 processor, 250 GB hard drive, 2 GB RAM (4 GB max), dual-layer DVD writer with LabelFlash printing * 54g Atheros Wi-Fi (802.11b/g); 10/100 Ethernet; ATI Radeon X1200 graphics card with up to 319 MB of shared m...

Windows XP and Singlelineedits with background
VO 2806 (and also VO 2.5 with XP-Additions) When the XP-Style is enabled and I am using singlelineedits with a background the border is not displayed correctly. When hovering with the mouse over the control the sle is displayed correctly or when disabling/controle the control after setting the background. Does some has an idea what to change apart from calling disable/enable after setting the background? Arne Ortlinghaus ACS Data Systems 2806! Is this the long awaited 30 April release?????? Sorry but can you please retype your message? I am not completely sure ...

Mobile Me / Windows Live
I am not a Windows type of guy and have always hated Hotmail but things seem to be changing with Windows Live: - POP3 access on free account - Nnlimited email storage - Sky Drive with 25 gig of storage free Seems to be something of a threat to Mobile Me. I wonder how apple will respond? In article <0001HW.C5C02DCE0002520CB01AD9AF@europe.newsdemon.com>, Skipper <mail@xxx.co.uk> wrote: > I am not a Windows type of guy and have always hated Hotmail but things seem > to be changing with Windows Live: > - POP3 access on free account > - Nnlimited email storage > -...

Lookng for Unix-like OS that will recognize my wireless card
(You may see a repeat of this message on some of the related BSD newsgroups since there are a few different distros out there of BSD). I have this scenario. I am considering trying a version of BSD instead of Linux. Old Dell laptop, about 3.5 Gigs of space available on a small hard drive. No option to add a larger hard drive at this time, no additional investment can be made right now. Processor speed is 300 mhz (Pentium II), memory 380 something MB. I have tried Ubuntu and Dreamlinux, both of which recognize my wireless card, a Netgear WG511T. The problem is that the vers...

window-handlers on windows
hi (this is my first post to this ng; so if it is the wrong ng, please direct me to the one i need...) my problem not necessarily bound to C++ (but could also be C), but since my application is in C++, i post it here. i want to draw from application A into a window that has been created by an application B (in my case: i want to render an openGL-scene into a a browser-window) under linux i can get a handle of type "Window" from the Xserver, into which i can draw (assumed that i have permissions) under windows the only such handle i have found is HWND, which is a pointer to a ...

Showing all tooltips in a window
It would be a nice affect for beginners or demos that the tooltips of all controls in a window are displayed (or maybe one after another). Is there a possibility to do this? Arne Ortlinghaus ACS Data Systems Arne, Actually no, I don't think so. Tool tips are invariably too short and controls too close together for something like this. And it would be seen as a gimmick and most would want to turn it off very quickly. I think the best thing to do is produce a well documented (including image shots with annotations) help manual and link it in solidly to your windo...

Windows 2000 over Windows ME install?
Greetings, I have a computer which has Windows ME currently installed on it. I have a license of Windows 2000 sitting around doing nothing, and I'd like to install the Win2k over ontop of the WinME. Will I have to wipe out the WinME completely and start from scratch on the Win2k install, or can I safely install the Win2k over the top of WinME? Thanks in advance, -Geoff I think Win2k can be upgraded only from WinNT. You will have to do a clean install. Geoff Cashman wrote: > > Greetings, > > I have a computer which has Windows ME currently instal...

Statistics for comp.sys.mac.advocacy #18
============================================================================ Analysis of posts to comp.sys.mac.advocacy ============================================================================ (stats compiled with a script by Garry Knight) Total posts considered: 1,900 over 7 days Earliest article: Fri Jul 29 17:03:03 2005 Latest article: Fri Aug 5 16:43:03 2005 Original articles: 88, replies: 1,812 Total size of posts: 5,661,396 bytes (5,528K) (5.40M) Average 271 articles per day, 0.77 MB per day, 2,979 bytes per article Total headers: 2,312 KB bodies...

Remote printing OS to Windows interface
Hi, I've just installed a remote printer in OS507 - the printer is on a Windows box, and unix can lp to it OK. There doesn't seem to be an interface file in /var/spool/lp/admins/lp/interfaces for this printer. Is it somewhere different or do we get no control over the print job this way? Relevant info - I had to uninstall cups before installing remote printing, and I haven't reinstalled. I've never used cups before - will it help? - I use a simple tailored interface file which among other things sends some pcl to the laser to change the font. thanks in advance -Rob robat...

=?windows-1252?Q?Special_Track_=93Computational_Bioimaging_and_Visual?= =?windows-1252?Q?ization=94_within_the_ISVC08_USA_=2D_Announce_=26_Call_for_Papers?=
----------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------- (Apologies for cross-posting) Special Track =93Computational Bioimaging and Visualization=94 International Symposium on Visual Computing (ISVC08) Las Vegas, Nevada, USA, December 1-3, 2008 http://www.isvc.net We would appreciate if you could distribute this information by your colleagues and co-workers. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Colle...

3dmax like paned windows
Does anyone know how to create pure tcl paned-widown like 3d Max which has a handle allows you to grid the 4 windows at one instance. In panedWindow you can either seperate vertical or horizontal. 3d Max however allows you to scale the window in both direction at the same time. If not one available, can anyone layout what kind of knowledge I NEED to know in order to create one. Thanks, Alex tak wrote: > Does anyone know how to create pure tcl paned-widown like 3d Max which > has a handle allows you to grid the 4 windows at one instance. > > In panedWindow you can either seper...

comp.os.msdos.programmer FAQ part 1/5 #8
Archive-name: msdos-programmer-faq/part1 Comp-os-msdos-programmer-archive-name: dos-faq-pt1.txt Posting-frequency: 28 days Last-modified: 14 Aug 2003 comp.os.msdos.programmer FAQ Version 2003.08.14 This is the Frequently Asked Questions list for the newsgroup comp.os.msdos.programmer. COPYRIGHT Copyright 2003 by Jeffrey Carlyle. All rights reserved. This article is not in the public domain, but it may be redistributed so long as this notice, the acknowledgments, and the information on obtaining the latest copy of this list are retained and no fee is charged. The code fragmen...

=?windows-1256?B?2sfM4SDk5NTRIMrdx9Xt4SDH4craz+3hIMfh5g==?= =?windows-1256?B?0sfR7SDH4czP7c8gx+HQ7SDT7crjIMfhx9rhx+Qg2uQ=?= =?windows-1256?B?yQ==?=
2sfM4SDk5NTRIMrdx9Xt4SDH4craz+3hIMfh5tLH0e0gx+HMz+3PIMfh0O0g0+3K4yDH4cfa4cfk INrkyQoKaHR0cDovL25hdGlndGFzN2FiLmJsb2dzcG90LmNvbS8yMDEzLzA0L2Jsb2ctcG9zdF83 NDM1Lmh0bWw= ...

Root Window & Windows within Windows
Even (on 98) if you replace the shell explorer.exe you are left with the root window. Explorer.exe does a good job of adding content to the root window. It places icons on your desktop and gives you a task bar. The only ability I am aware of that programmers have to add content to the root window (aside from replacing explorer.exe), is with Active Desktop. I feel that active desktop should be a program we can write ourselves. We should be able to write our own programs that are drawn directly to the root window, just like active desktop windows are. Even when you replace ...

Setting the window size
Dear All, How do I set the size of the window that is showing the database forms? can't find any helps on it. John Fox On Apr 19, 6:33 am, John Fox <altab...@bham.ac.uk> wrote: > Dear All, > > How do I set the size of the window that is showing the database forms? > > can't find any helps on it. > > John Fox Are you talking about at design time? All you have to do is make sure the window is not maximized so you can view its normal size, then click and drag the edges of the window to resize. If you save the form after changing the size, this will stic...

Stats comp.os.linux.setup (last 7 days) #2
Stats comp.os.linux.setup (last 7 days) Top 10 posters for the period: rank posts kbytes name address 1 29 55.2 mjt mjtobler@removethis_consu 2 11 17.7 Dave Uhring daveuhring@yahoo.com 3 10 25.1 Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@verizon.net 4 10 15.3 Xyerp Xyerp@hotmail.com 5 8 20.3 Peter T. Breuer ptb@oboe.it.uc3m.es 6 8 15.2 Thomas T. Newman thomastnewman@yahoo.com 7 7 16.8 Grappino blinder@cancellaqui.inwin 8 ...

Overplot cgplots in graphics window
Hello, I have several data sets of trajectories that I want to plot together in on= e graphics window. I am able to rerun the code and have it overplot in the = display window but I'm not able to save that. I've tried creating a resizab= le graphics window but because the cgplots commands are in a loop, IDL cont= inually displays new graphics windows and then crashes. Is there a way that= I can rerun my code with a new data set each time and overplot on the same= map and then save the graphic without having to just copy and paste my cod= e 3x in the same program? I've i...

Filer like windows
I intend to write a program that can keep a number of images and draw files in memory at the same time. The user should be able to access every file individually. What I plan to do is a window that contains every available file like in a filer window. I would also like to have the option to show large icons/small icons/full info and maybe later even a thumbnail of the images. May question is: Is there something like a toolbox module which makes it easy to achieve a filer like display or do I have to go the long way and implement everything by myself? If there is something I can use, it shou...

lost password to mac powerbook 1400 cs
Our daughter lost the password to our mac powerbook 1400 cs. What can we do to recover use of it? HELPHELP stevew In article <pan.2004.08.12.15.52.06.684091@yahoo.com>, "steve" <erhu42@yahoo.com> wrote: > Our daughter lost the password to our mac powerbook 1400 cs. > What can we do to recover use of it? HELPHELP > stevew How did she "lose" it? What password are you talking about? -- Cheers, _Chas_ http://www.apple.com/switch non-spammers can write to chasm at mac (dot com) ...