f



Why doesn't the delete key delete in OS X

Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
happens!

Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How intuitive!
0
muahman (3479)
8/21/2008 9:46:15 AM
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In article 
<a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
 MuahMan <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:

> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
> happens!
> 
> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How intuitive!

Try using command and delete together next time to delete files, 
dumbfuck.
0
t-bone2 (2779)
8/21/2008 1:06:24 PM
On Aug 21, 9:06=A0am, Chance Furlong <t-b...@megakatcity.com> wrote:
> In article
> <a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f56605...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
>
> =A0MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
> > happens!
>
> > Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How intuitive!
>
> Try using command and delete together next time to delete files,
> dumbfuck.

HAHAHA, so delete REALLY isn't delete. What a great OS. Bwhaahahahahaha
0
muahman (3479)
8/21/2008 1:28:01 PM
"Chance Furlong" <t-bone@megakatcity.com> wrote in message 
news:t-bone-FE2163.08062421082008@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> In article
> <a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
> MuahMan <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>> happens!
>>
>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How intuitive!
>
> Try using command and delete together next time to delete files,
> dumbfuck.

INTUITIVE!!!!!!!

BWAHAAAHAAAAHAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Didn't make the cut, Felcher.



0
zaraspook (2387)
8/21/2008 2:43:21 PM
On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
<muahman@gmail.com> wrote:

> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
> happens!

Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
.... It's gone!

> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.

Actually it does.... See above!

> How intuitive!

Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
files/folders can be accidentally selected!

If it wasn�t for that you would spend most of the day looking for that which
you have 'accidentally' deleted and you would have less time to bitch about
the OS that you secretly love.

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/22/2008 12:25:10 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D4288F.3375%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/21/08 5:25 PM:

> On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
> a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
> <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>> happens!
> 
> Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
> ... It's gone!
> 
> 
>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
> 
> Actually it does.... See above!
> 
>> How intuitive!
> 
> Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
> understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
> files/folders can be accidentally selected!
> 
> If it wasn�t for that you would spend most of the day looking for that which
> you have 'accidentally' deleted and you would have less time to bitch about
> the OS that you secretly love.
> 
Just so you know, the context was the Finder (compared to Windows Explorer
and the like).  Your comments about text deletion are irrelevant.


-- 
You really have to give credit to Apple for driving innovation.
- Mark Shuttleworth (founded Canonical Ltd. / Ubuntu Linux)

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/22/2008 2:35:01 AM
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:25:10 GMT, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> wrote:

>On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
>a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
><muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>> happens!
>
>Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
>... It's gone!
>
>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>
>Actually it does.... See above!

Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
the public to understand how to work a keyboard.

>
>> How intuitive!
>
>Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
>understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
>files/folders can be accidentally selected!

And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right Delete
key.

>
>If it wasn�t for that you would spend most of the day looking for that which
>you have 'accidentally' deleted and you would have less time to bitch about
>the OS that you secretly love.

Because the only possible reason people complain about something is
that they secretly love it. Why don't you go explain your theory to a
group of Holocaust survivors? I'm sure they'd like to know how much
they secretly love Nazis.


-- 

"Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a 
Muslim, and is a committed Christian"
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/

"...n 1971, Obama enrolled in the Besuki Primary School, 
a government school, as Barry Soetoro, Muslim"
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm

""In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother
I made faces during Koranic studies.""
From "Dreams From My Father" Barack Obama's autobigraphy
0
8/22/2008 4:12:43 AM
In article <uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja1tk@4ax.com>,
 Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:25:10 GMT, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> wrote:
> 
> >On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
> >a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
> ><muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
> >> happens!
> >
> >Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
> >... It's gone!
> >
> >> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
> >
> >Actually it does.... See above!
> 
> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.

No, Clyde. The actual scan codes for the Enter and Return keys are 
different. Hence, on a Mac at least, Enter and Return can be made to 
perform different functions.

> 
> >
> >> How intuitive!
> >
> >Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
> >understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
> >files/folders can be accidentally selected!
> 
> And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right Delete
> key.

On a PC, yes. On a Mac, commands are usually associated with -- gasp! -- 
the Command key. That's its purpose. To help the *user* differentiate 
from the ordinary type things purpose of the keyboard and its use as a 
way of controlling an applications operation.

-- 
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
0
alangbaker (17682)
8/22/2008 4:18:14 AM
Mayor of R'lyeh wrote:

> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
> 
>>> How intuitive!
>> Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
>> understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
>> files/folders can be accidentally selected!
> 
> And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right Delete
> key.

And where can I find that on my MacBook Pro?

Steve
0
steve13 (4870)
8/22/2008 4:28:02 AM
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:28:02 -0700, Steve de Mena
<steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:

>Mayor of R'lyeh wrote:
>
>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>> 
>>>> How intuitive!
>>> Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
>>> understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
>>> files/folders can be accidentally selected!
>> 
>> And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right Delete
>> key.
>
>And where can I find that on my MacBook Pro?
>
>Steve

On my iMac at work its the Delete key that's in the same place as the
Delete key on a PC keyboard. I think I used a MacBook Pro once so I
don't know if its on there or not.


-- 

"Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a 
Muslim, and is a committed Christian"
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/

"...n 1971, Obama enrolled in the Besuki Primary School, 
a government school, as Barry Soetoro, Muslim"
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm

""In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother
I made faces during Koranic studies.""
From "Dreams From My Father" Barack Obama's autobigraphy
0
8/22/2008 4:38:42 AM
On Aug 22, 12:12=A0am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>
>


Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
they differently?

LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.

Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
0
muahman (3479)
8/22/2008 7:42:39 AM
On 22/8/08 12:12 PM, in article uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja1tk@4ax.com,
"Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:25:10 GMT, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
>> a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
>> <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>>> happens!
>> 
>> Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
>> ... It's gone!
>> 
>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>> 
>> Actually it does.... See above!
> 
> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.

On a Mac keyboard? Or a Mac compatible keyboard?

All my Apple supplied keyboards over the years have had the Delete key in
the position that you mention.
My Logitech has a back arrow and 'Back' on it, my son's Logitech merely has
an arrow pointing back on it!

> Of course the
> Enter key is also labeled Return.
> Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.

I notice from your later comments that you make a habit of assuming what
people think!

> 
>> 
>>> How intuitive!
>> 
>> Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
>> understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
>> files/folders can be accidentally selected!
> 
> And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right Delete
> key.

Not from where I am sitting I have tried without success to do that with a
Mac keyboard (two delete keys) and a Logitech wave keyboard (a Back key and
one Delete).

Perhaps you could explain further how to delete a folder with one key
stroke?

>> 
>> If it wasn�t for that you would spend most of the day looking for that which
>> you have 'accidentally' deleted and you would have less time to bitch about
>> the OS that you secretly love.
> 
> Because the only possible reason people complain about something is
> that they secretly love it.

Was I talking generally or was it that "you" was not enough of a clue?
 
> Why don't you go explain your theory to a
> group of Holocaust survivors?

Because a specific statement relating to one person would not necessarily
apply to an unrelated group of people! strange that you need to ask.

> I'm sure they'd like to know how much
> they secretly love Nazis.

Are you? And you're also sure that the 'group" would jump to the same
erroneous conclusion as you did?


 

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/22/2008 1:44:53 PM
On 22/8/08 10:35 AM, in article C4D373E5.D1881%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D4288F.3375%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/21/08 5:25 PM:
> 
>> On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
>> a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
>> <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>>> happens!
>> 
>> Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
>> ... It's gone!
>> 
>> 
>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>> 
>> Actually it does.... See above!
>> 
>>> How intuitive!
>> 
>> Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
>> understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
>> files/folders can be accidentally selected!
>> 
>> If it wasn�t for that you would spend most of the day looking for that which
>> you have 'accidentally' deleted and you would have less time to bitch about
>> the OS that you secretly love.
>> 
> Just so you know, the context was....

.....made perfectly clear from the subject line!

Or from the authors conclusion...

"Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X"-MuahMan

Still think that comments related to deletion are irrelevant Snit?  LOL!


0
wally1870 (4724)
8/22/2008 2:16:14 PM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D4EB5B.33C3%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 7:16 AM:

....
>> Just so you know, the context was....
> 
> ....made perfectly clear from the subject line!
> 
> 
> Or from the authors conclusion...
> 
> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X"-MuahMan
> 
> Still think that comments related to deletion are irrelevant Snit?  LOL!
> 
> 
MuahMan was *clearly* and unambiguously in reference to selecting a file in
the Finder and pressing the delete key with the hopes of having the file be
deleted (or, perhaps if he is a bit wiser, being moved to the Trash).  He
was not in reference to deleting selected text.

You changed the topic to text selection.   You, clearly, did not understand
what MuahMan was talking about.  You have that habit of misunderstanding
what people are talking about... either on accident or, perhaps, on purpose.
When your misunderstanding is pointed out you refuse to acknowledge it - you
simply insist that since your off-topic showing that the delete key deletes
selected *text* that somehow you have shown MuahMan to be incorrect in his
claim that the delete key does not effect selected *files*.


-- 
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing. - Unknown

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/22/2008 3:30:08 PM
"MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
51fef508-3c0f-4963-8bd2-f9b703335add@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com on 8/22/08
12:42 AM:

> On Aug 22, 12:12�am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
> they differently?
> 
> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
> 
> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.

I agree that calling one Back Space makes more sense.


-- 
The answer to the water shortage is to dilute it.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/22/2008 3:47:03 PM
In article <uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja1tk@4ax.com>, Mayor of 
R'lyeh <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > MuahMan:
> > > Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.

> > Wally:
> > Actually it does.... See above!

> Mayor of R'lyeh:
> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.

When you say that it is "called" Delete, I'm curious as to when it is 
called Delete, by whom and where? It's certainly not written *on* the 
key, nor is it called "Delete" in the menu when it is used (for moving 
files to the trash, in the FInder, for example).

Is it somewhere in the help file? Not even the keyboard viewer shows 
"Delete" for it.

> Of course the Enter key is also labeled Return.

Huh? Now you're explicitly stating that the enter key, which is on the 
numerical keyboard, is *labeled* "Return", which of course is 
blatantly false. Not even the return key is labeled "Return". In fact, 
the only key outside of ctrl/alt/cmd that has any label at all is the 
Delete key, ironically.


-- 
Sandman[.net]
0
mr249 (22317)
8/22/2008 5:01:42 PM
In article <bd-dnf2qkKzP3TPVnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Steve de 
Mena <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:

> > Mayor of R'lyeh:
> > Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason
> > the Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of
> > course the Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple
> > thought typewriters were still a popular machine that needed to be
> > emulated in order for the public to understand how to work a
> > keyboard.

> > > > MuahMan:
> > > > How intuitive!

> > > Wally:
> > > Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and
> > > you may well understand why for someone like you command/delete
> > > is essential as files/folders can be accidentally selected!

> > Mayor of R'lyeh:
> > And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right
> > Delete key.

> Steve de Mena:
> And where can I find that on my MacBook Pro?

fn-Backspace

-- 
Sandman[.net]
0
mr249 (22317)
8/22/2008 5:03:03 PM
In article <C4D42990.D19C3%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>,
 Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D4EB5B.33C3%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 7:16 AM:
> 
> ...
> >> Just so you know, the context was....
> > 
> > ....made perfectly clear from the subject line!
> > 
> > 
> > Or from the authors conclusion...
> > 
> > "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X"-MuahMan
> > 
> > Still think that comments related to deletion are irrelevant Snit?  LOL!
> > 
> > 
> MuahMan was *clearly* and unambiguously in reference to selecting a file in
> the Finder and pressing the delete key with the hopes of having the file be
> deleted (or, perhaps if he is a bit wiser, being moved to the Trash).  He
> was not in reference to deleting selected text.
> 
> You changed the topic to text selection.   You, clearly, did not understand
> what MuahMan was talking about. 

Bull... there's no question that he spotted Pratt's troll for what it was... he 
also understands things about language and writing that you obviously don't.

(snip unsupported crap by Snit)

> When your misunderstanding is pointed out you refuse to acknowledge it - you
> simply insist that since your off-topic showing that the delete key deletes
> selected *text* that somehow you have shown MuahMan to be incorrect in his
> claim that the delete key does not effect selected *files*.

LOL! Learn what it means to write a new paragraph (and a thread title... AKA 
"the expression of the main idea" - as seen at the link below), gluey;)

Here's are some other clues for you:

"A paragraph, however, is "a group of sentences or a single sentence that forms 
a unit" (Lunsford and Connors 116)".



"Before you can begin to determine what the composition of your paragraphs will 
be, you must first understand what the controlling idea in your specific piece 
of writing is. What is the main point or expression that you are trying to 
convey to your reader? The information that comprises your paragraphs should 
always have a relationship to this controlling idea. In other words, your 
paragraphs should remind your reader, at every possible point, that there is a 
recurrent relationship between your controlling idea and the information in each 
paragraph. The controlling idea functions like a seed through which your paper, 
and your ideas, will grow".

http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/paragraphs.html

Hint: "controlling idea" is found in the thread's title (and in the conclusion).

What you focused on was but one example given by Pratt that attempted to 
strengthen his "controlling idea" (again: as provided in the thread's title 
*and* Pratt's conclusion) about delete not deleting in OSX. 

In any event... selecting the name field of a file in the finder and hitting the 
delete key does "effect" the selected file. This, to me, makes much more sense 
than having delete offer the ability to remove files entirely.

You really should get your money back on your 'education', Snit;)

-- 
"Apple is pushing how green this is - but it [Macbook Air] is 
clearly disposable... when the battery dies you can pretty much 
just throw it away". - Snit
0
trollkiller (3346)
8/22/2008 5:32:20 PM
> On 22/8/08 12:12 PM, in article uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja1tk@4ax.com,
> "Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Of course the
> > Enter key is also labeled Return.

Apparently you haven't noticed that shift-Return is the same as hitting 
Enter. Not to mention that Enter and Return have different functions.

And no, the Return key may or may not also have Enter printed on it.

Apple's laptop keyboards do, not all desktop keyboards do.

> > Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> > were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> > the public to understand how to work a keyboard.

You can't really believe this. (Well, perhaps you missed out on 
everything relating to computer peripherals before Windows arrived on 
the scene.)

If you do, have someone explain to you the difference between the CR and 
LF characters, as well as how different OS's handle CR, LF, and CR-LF 
pairs.
0
sehix (4160)
8/22/2008 5:56:57 PM
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:42:39 -0700 (PDT), MuahMan <muahman@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Aug 22, 12:12�am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>
>>
>
>
>Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>they differently?

You didn't know that? Yes there is a Delete key in the same place it
is on a PC keyboard and the Backspace key is also labeled Delete but
it functions as a Backspace.

>LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>
>Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.

That's nothing. On some Apple keyboards the Command key is labeled the
Apple key but it doesn't open the Apple menu. Now where have I seen an
eponymous keyboard key before...?


-- 

"Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a 
Muslim, and is a committed Christian"
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/

"...n 1971, Obama enrolled in the Besuki Primary School, 
a government school, as Barry Soetoro, Muslim"
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm

""In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother
I made faces during Koranic studies.""
From "Dreams From My Father" Barack Obama's autobigraphy
0
8/22/2008 6:25:10 PM
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:44:53 GMT, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> wrote:

>On 22/8/08 12:12 PM, in article uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja1tk@4ax.com,
>"Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:25:10 GMT, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
>>> a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
>>> <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>>>> happens!
>>> 
>>> Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
>>> ... It's gone!
>>> 
>>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>>> 
>>> Actually it does.... See above!
>> 
>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.
>
>On a Mac keyboard? Or a Mac compatible keyboard?

I have an aluminum Apple keyboard at work that's like that.
>
>All my Apple supplied keyboards over the years have had the Delete key in
>the position that you mention.
>My Logitech has a back arrow and 'Back' on it, my son's Logitech merely has
>an arrow pointing back on it!
>
>> Of course the
>> Enter key is also labeled Return.
>> Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>
>I notice from your later comments that you make a habit of assuming what
>people think!

Any honest reading of my comment will reveal that it was specualtion
not declaration.

>> 
>>> 
>>>> How intuitive!
>>> 
>>> Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
>>> understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
>>> files/folders can be accidentally selected!
>> 
>> And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right Delete
>> key.
>
>Not from where I am sitting I have tried without success to do that with a
>Mac keyboard (two delete keys) and a Logitech wave keyboard (a Back key and
>one Delete).
>
>Perhaps you could explain further how to delete a folder with one key
>stroke?

I'm pretty sure I have. I'll try it again Monday and report back.

>
>>> 
>>> If it wasn�t for that you would spend most of the day looking for that which
>>> you have 'accidentally' deleted and you would have less time to bitch about
>>> the OS that you secretly love.
>> 
>> Because the only possible reason people complain about something is
>> that they secretly love it.
>
>Was I talking generally or was it that "you" was not enough of a clue?
> 
>> Why don't you go explain your theory to a
>> group of Holocaust survivors?
>
>Because a specific statement relating to one person would not necessarily
>apply to an unrelated group of people! strange that you need to ask.
>
>> I'm sure they'd like to know how much
>> they secretly love Nazis.
>
>Are you? And you're also sure that the 'group" would jump to the same
>erroneous conclusion as you did?
>
>
> 
-- 

"Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a 
Muslim, and is a committed Christian"
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/

"...n 1971, Obama enrolled in the Besuki Primary School, 
a government school, as Barry Soetoro, Muslim"
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm

""In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother
I made faces during Koranic studies.""
From "Dreams From My Father" Barack Obama's autobigraphy
0
8/22/2008 6:28:43 PM
"Sandman" <mr@sandman.net> stated in post
mr-3B1F4A.19014222082008@News.Individual.NET on 8/22/08 10:01 AM:

> In article <uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja1tk@4ax.com>, Mayor of
> R'lyeh <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> MuahMan:
>>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
> 
>>> Wally:
>>> Actually it does.... See above!
> 
>> Mayor of R'lyeh:
>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.
> 
> When you say that it is "called" Delete, I'm curious as to when it is
> called Delete, by whom and where? It's certainly not written *on* the
> key, nor is it called "Delete" in the menu when it is used (for moving
> files to the trash, in the FInder, for example).
> 
> Is it somewhere in the help file? Not even the keyboard viewer shows
> "Delete" for it.

The word "Delete" on it makes it reasonable to call it a "Delete" key.  Here
is a page with images of the keyboard: <http://www.apple.com/keyboard/>.

Note the two keys both with the word "Delete" on them.

>> Of course the Enter key is also labeled Return.
> 
> Huh? Now you're explicitly stating that the enter key, which is on the
> numerical keyboard, is *labeled* "Return", which of course is
> blatantly false. Not even the return key is labeled "Return". In fact,
> the only key outside of ctrl/alt/cmd that has any label at all is the
> Delete key, ironically.

What the heck are you talking about?  Enter and Return are labeled on the
Apple keyboards.


-- 
"For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.
I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user
interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial
company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/22/2008 7:30:58 PM
Mayor of R'lyeh wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:25:10 GMT, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
>> a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
>> <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>>> happens!
>> Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
>> ... It's gone!
>>
>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>> Actually it does.... See above!
> 
> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.

First, the 'enter' name would be no more appropriate than return,
because each character you type is 'entered' as you type it. The only
time 'enter' is appropriate is when you are filling in a form, and if
you do that more than anything else on a computer then you have a lot
more to worry about...

And maybe that's why both mac keyboards I use here have an arrow going
down and then back for the 'enter' key and a backwards arrow for the key
that deletes things you either just typed or just selected.
0
nospamatall2 (3238)
8/22/2008 11:19:58 PM
Alan Baker wrote:

>>> Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
>>> understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
>>> files/folders can be accidentally selected!
>> And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right Delete
>> key.
> 
> On a PC, yes. On a Mac, commands are usually associated with -- gasp! -- 
> the Command key. That's its purpose. To help the *user* differentiate 
> from the ordinary type things purpose of the keyboard and its use as a 
> way of controlling an applications operation.
> 

Users who don't know the difference between alternative and optional
probably couldn't grasp the idea of command being used as command anyway.

Andy
0
nospamatall2 (3238)
8/22/2008 11:22:48 PM
MuahMan wrote:
> On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
> they differently?
> 
> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
> 
> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.

It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two exchanges
between two wintrolls!
0
nospamatall2 (3238)
8/22/2008 11:24:58 PM
On Aug 22, 7:19 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
> Mayor of R'lyeh wrote:
> > On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:25:10 GMT, Wally <Wa...@wally.world.net> wrote:
>
> >> On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
> >> a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f56605...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
> >> <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
> >>> happens!
> >> Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
> >> ... It's gone!
>
> >>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
> >> Actually it does.... See above!
>
> > Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> > Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
> > Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> > were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> > the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>
> First, the 'enter' name would be no more appropriate than return,
> because each character you type is 'entered' as you type it. The only
> time 'enter' is appropriate is when you are filling in a form, and if
> you do that more than anything else on a computer then you have a lot
> more to worry about...

We call that excuse making where I'm from. It is a minor quibble but
having a computer keyboard with a Return key is an anachronism. Most
of what its for does not involve a carriage return like action.
Another reply to me stated that I should study how computers were
before Windows. What does that have to do with anything? To use one of
the Maccies' favorite comparisons its like justifying the existence of
a hand crank starter on a 2008 model car by saying that Model Ts had
them. It might have been the way to go in its day but the sun set on
that day a long time ago.
>
> And maybe that's why both mac keyboards I use here have an arrow going
> down and then back for the 'enter' key and a backwards arrow for the key
> that deletes things you either just typed or just selected.

One of the main things that's become clear because of this thread is
that Apple's keyboards are not consistent even in the same era.
Sitting down to one Apple keyboard does not give the same experience
as sitting down at another one. What happened to Apple being intuitive
and consistent?




0
8/23/2008 12:31:40 AM
On Aug 22, 7:24 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
> MuahMan wrote:
> > On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> >> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
> >> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> >> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> >> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>
> > Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
> > they differently?
>
> > LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>
> > Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>
> It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two exchanges
> between two wintrolls!

Unable to counter  with actual facts nospamatall hurls invectives.
0
8/23/2008 12:33:56 AM
On Aug 22, 3:30 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
> mr-3B1F4A.19014222082...@News.Individual.NET on 8/22/08 10:01 AM:
>
>
>
> > In article <uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja...@4ax.com>, Mayor of
> > R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> MuahMan:
> >>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>
> >>> Wally:
> >>> Actually it does.... See above!
>
> >> Mayor of R'lyeh:
> >> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> >> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.
>
> > When you say that it is "called" Delete, I'm curious as to when it is
> > called Delete, by whom and where? It's certainly not written *on* the
> > key, nor is it called "Delete" in the menu when it is used (for moving
> > files to the trash, in the FInder, for example).
>
> > Is it somewhere in the help file? Not even the keyboard viewer shows
> > "Delete" for it.
>
> The word "Delete" on it makes it reasonable to call it a "Delete" key.  Here
> is a page with images of the keyboard: <http://www.apple.com/keyboard/>.
>
> Note the two keys both with the word "Delete" on them.
>
> >> Of course the Enter key is also labeled Return.
>
> > Huh? Now you're explicitly stating that the enter key, which is on the
> > numerical keyboard, is *labeled* "Return", which of course is
> > blatantly false. Not even the return key is labeled "Return". In fact,
> > the only key outside of ctrl/alt/cmd that has any label at all is the
> > Delete key, ironically.
>
> What the heck are you talking about?  Enter and Return are labeled on the
> Apple keyboards.
>
> --
> "For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.
> I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user
> interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial
> company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>

Sandy gets owned by Snit. Lets hope the shame doesn't lead to some
rash action on Sandman's part.
0
8/23/2008 12:35:42 AM
"Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> stated in post
d086f9f3-6a93-4075-9328-61fa50780294@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com on 8/22/08
5:35 PM:

> On Aug 22, 3:30 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
>> mr-3B1F4A.19014222082...@News.Individual.NET on 8/22/08 10:01 AM:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> In article <uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja...@4ax.com>, Mayor of
>>> R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> MuahMan:
>>>>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>> 
>>>>> Wally:
>>>>> Actually it does.... See above!
>> 
>>>> Mayor of R'lyeh:
>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.
>> 
>>> When you say that it is "called" Delete, I'm curious as to when it is
>>> called Delete, by whom and where? It's certainly not written *on* the
>>> key, nor is it called "Delete" in the menu when it is used (for moving
>>> files to the trash, in the FInder, for example).
>> 
>>> Is it somewhere in the help file? Not even the keyboard viewer shows
>>> "Delete" for it.
>> 
>> The word "Delete" on it makes it reasonable to call it a "Delete" key.  Here
>> is a page with images of the keyboard: <http://www.apple.com/keyboard/>.
>> 
>> Note the two keys both with the word "Delete" on them.
>> 
>>>> Of course the Enter key is also labeled Return.
>> 
>>> Huh? Now you're explicitly stating that the enter key, which is on the
>>> numerical keyboard, is *labeled* "Return", which of course is
>>> blatantly false. Not even the return key is labeled "Return". In fact,
>>> the only key outside of ctrl/alt/cmd that has any label at all is the
>>> Delete key, ironically.
>> 
>> What the heck are you talking about?  Enter and Return are labeled on the
>> Apple keyboards.
>> 
>> --
>> "For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.
>> I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user
>> interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial
>> company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>
> 
> Sandy gets owned by Snit. Lets hope the shame doesn't lead to some
> rash action on Sandman's part.

He wisely has opted to pretend my posts do not exist... if only Wally were
that smart - did you see him get confused about what Delete action was being
talked about?


-- 
Picture of a tuna soda: http://snipurl.com/f351
Feel free to ask for the recipe.



0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 12:39:02 AM
On 23/8/08 2:28 AM, in article n41ua4tnsu9907j5tgqj7fggol9tki9oor@4ax.com,
"Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:44:53 GMT, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 22/8/08 12:12 PM, in article uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja1tk@4ax.com,
>> "Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:25:10 GMT, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
>>>> a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
>>>> <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>>>>> happens!
>>>> 
>>>> Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
>>>> ... It's gone!
>>>> 
>>>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>>>> 
>>>> Actually it does.... See above!
>>> 
>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.
>> 
>> On a Mac keyboard? Or a Mac compatible keyboard?
> 
> I have an aluminum Apple keyboard at work that's like that

And you still say that on your keyboard at work by default you can delete a
folder with one keystroke by pressing this particular delete key? And that
the multiple delete keys on your work keyboard act in different ways?

"it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh

Until someone can confirm that I frankly find it hard to believe based on my
experience with Apple keyboards!
 
>> All my Apple supplied keyboards over the years have had the Delete key in
>> the position that you mention.
>> My Logitech has a back arrow and 'Back' on it, my son's Logitech merely has
>> an arrow pointing back on it!
>> 
>>> Of course the
>>> Enter key is also labeled Return.
>>> Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>> 
>> I notice from your later comments that you make a habit of assuming what
>> people think!
> 
> Any honest reading of my comment will reveal that it was specualtion
> not declaration.

An honest reading of your comments is not the issue, after all anyone
reading your statement..

"it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh

...could honestly assume that you knew what you were talking about, but it
now appears that you need to check that opinion when you get back to work!
 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> How intuitive!
>>>> 
>>>> Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may well
>>>> understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
>>>> files/folders can be accidentally selected!
>>> 
>>> And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right Delete
>>> key.
>> 
>> Not from where I am sitting I have tried without success to do that with a
>> Mac keyboard (two delete keys) and a Logitech wave keyboard (a Back key and
>> one Delete).
>> 
>> Perhaps you could explain further how to delete a folder with one key
>> stroke?
> 
> I'm pretty sure I have. I'll try it again Monday and report back.

Pretty sure?

"it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh

Appears to be more than being "pretty sure"?

Of course we are all capable of making statements based on nothing more than
simply being "pretty sure" such as my view that MM secretly loves OS X, but
in this case I am pretty sure that I have more chance of being right than
you have!

>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If it wasn�t for that you would spend most of the day looking for that
>>>> which
>>>> you have 'accidentally' deleted and you would have less time to bitch about
>>>> the OS that you secretly love.
>>> 
>>> Because the only possible reason people complain about something is
>>> that they secretly love it.
>> 
>> Was I talking generally or was it that "you" was not enough of a clue?
>> 
>>> Why don't you go explain your theory to a
>>> group of Holocaust survivors?
>> 
>> Because a specific statement relating to one person would not necessarily
>> apply to an unrelated group of people! strange that you need to ask.
>> 
>>> I'm sure they'd like to know how much
>>> they secretly love Nazis.
>> 
>> Are you? And you're also sure that the 'group" would jump to the same
>> erroneous conclusion as you did?
>> 
>> 
>> 

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/23/2008 6:07:07 AM
On 22/8/08 11:30 PM, in article C4D42990.D19C3%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D4EB5B.33C3%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 7:16 AM:
> 
> ...
>>> Just so you know, the context was....
>> 
>> ....made perfectly clear from the subject line!
>> 
>> 
>> Or from the authors conclusion...
>> 
>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X"-MuahMan
>> 
>> Still think that comments related to deletion are irrelevant Snit?  LOL!
>> 
>> 
> MuahMan was *clearly* and unambiguously in reference to selecting a file in
> the Finder and pressing the delete key with the hopes of having the file be
> deleted (or, perhaps if he is a bit wiser, being moved to the Trash).  He
> was not in reference to deleting selected text.

"Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
happens!"-MuahMan

Had he stopped right there I could have overlooked the incorrect subject
line ...... But he didn�t!

His conclusion backs up the erroneous subject line!

"Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How intuitive!"-MuahMan

Did you miss the "in OS X" Snit? It may come as a surprise to you but OS X
comprises far more than the Finder!
> 
> You changed the topic to text selection.

I remained on topic wrt deletion within OS X!

> You, clearly, did not understand what MuahMan was talking about.

"Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan

Is perfectly clear Snit!

> You have that habit of misunderstanding
> what people are talking about...

LOL!

> either on accident or, perhaps, on purpose.
> When your misunderstanding is pointed out you refuse to acknowledge it - you
> simply insist that since your off-topic showing that the delete key deletes
> selected *text* that somehow you have shown MuahMan to be incorrect in his
> claim that the delete key does not effect selected *files*.

"Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan

Does not refer to selected files Snit!

But thank you for your input Snit, I am a firm believer that the
comprehension impaired such as you are should take every opportunity to have
their say, I am happy to have given you this opportunity! 

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/23/2008 6:25:38 AM
On 22/8/08 11:47 PM, in article C4D42D87.D19D6%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
> 51fef508-3c0f-4963-8bd2-f9b703335add@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com on 8/22/08
> 12:42 AM:
> 
>> On Aug 22, 12:12�am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>> they differently?
>> 
>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>> 
>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
> 
> I agree that calling one Back Space makes more sense.
> 

So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?

If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense to
you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?








 

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/23/2008 6:35:47 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D5D0ED.342D%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 11:35 PM:

> On 22/8/08 11:47 PM, in article C4D42D87.D19D6%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> "MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
>> 51fef508-3c0f-4963-8bd2-f9b703335add@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com on 8/22/08
>> 12:42 AM:
>> 
>>> On Aug 22, 12:12�am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>> they differently?
>>> 
>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>>> 
>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>> 
>> I agree that calling one Back Space makes more sense.
>> 
> 
> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?

It is not speculation - they do act differently.  This is a fact.  Here:

    <http://www.internet4classrooms.com/mackeyboard.htm>

Click on the key marked "Delete" and then the key marked "Del" on the image.
On the Mac keyboard they are both labeled "delete", though one also has an
icon on it.

> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense to
> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?

The keys act differently, Wally.  One deletes the character before the
insertion point (the one next to the = symbol) and one deletes the character
after it (the one next to the "end" key).  Why is this even a debate?  If
you did not know how the keys worked just press the darn things while typing
a reply to me... then you will know I (and MuahMan) are right about this and
you will not have to claim it is merely "speculation".


-- 
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 7:22:56 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D5CE8E.342B%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 11:25 PM:

> On 22/8/08 11:30 PM, in article C4D42990.D19C3%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
>> C4D4EB5B.33C3%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 7:16 AM:
>> 
>> ...
>>>> Just so you know, the context was....
>>> 
>>> ....made perfectly clear from the subject line!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Or from the authors conclusion...
>>> 
>>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X"-MuahMan
>>> 
>>> Still think that comments related to deletion are irrelevant Snit?  LOL!
>>> 
>>> 
>> MuahMan was *clearly* and unambiguously in reference to selecting a file in
>> the Finder and pressing the delete key with the hopes of having the file be
>> deleted (or, perhaps if he is a bit wiser, being moved to the Trash).  He
>> was not in reference to deleting selected text.
> 
> "Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
> happens!"-MuahMan

And he is correct.  To delete the file, as he was clearly looking to do, one
has to press Command-Delete on a Mac... to be clear the "Delete" on the main
part of the keyboard, *not* the one above the inverted T arrows.

> Had he stopped right there I could have overlooked the incorrect subject
> line ...... But he didn�t!

His subject like was not incorrect - it was not detailed... but that is what
the body of the message is for!

> His conclusion backs up the erroneous subject line!
> 
> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How intuitive!"-MuahMan

In the context of files in the Finder he is correct... unless one presses
the Command key also... and then uses the "correct" Delete key.

> Did you miss the "in OS X" Snit?

No - unlike you I did not miss the context of deleting files in the Finder.

....

-- 
The answer to the water shortage is to dilute it.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 7:26:09 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D5CA32.3429%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 11:07 PM:

.... 
>> I have an aluminum Apple keyboard at work that's like that
> 
> And you still say that on your keyboard at work by default you can delete a
> folder with one keystroke by pressing this particular delete key?

Can you quote him saying that - in relation to OS X that is?  On Windows one
can do that... or, at least, have the file be moved to the Recycle Bin.  On
OS X one uses Command-Delete to move a file to the Trash.

> And that
> the multiple delete keys on your work keyboard act in different ways?

The two Delete keys on the Mac keyboard work in different ways.  Then again,
the two "Enter" keys on a standard keyboard that comes with most Windows
machines act differently as well.
 
> "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
> 
> Until someone can confirm that I frankly find it hard to believe based on my
> experience with Apple keyboards!

LOL!  You need it confirmed that the two delete keys act differently... even
though you claim to have an Apple keyboard.  Here, since you find it so hard
to test yourself:

    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/delete_file.mov>

Warning, the "Delete" keys are not labeled with the word "Delete" on the
Apple keyboard viewer... they have symbols.  It is, frankly, odd that the
*Apple* keyboard viewer would have different labels than the *Apple*
keyboard.  None-the-less, you can see in that movie where the two delete
keys act differently.

And since you expanded the topic to how the delete keys work with text:

    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/delete.mov>

There - you can see what keys I pressed and what the result was - one
deletes forward and the other backwards.  Keep in mind this has little to do
with the original topic of deleting *files* in the Finder.

Frankly I find it absolutely amazing you need these type things explained to
you.  I seriously wonder if you will understand and accept the behavior even
with my showing you in the movies.  It will be amusing if you do not.  :)

.... 




-- 
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)





0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 7:50:53 AM
In article 
<d086f9f3-6a93-4075-9328-61fa50780294@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
 "Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 22, 3:30 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
> > mr-3B1F4A.19014222082...@News.Individual.NET on 8/22/08 10:01 AM:
> >
> >
> >
> > > In article <uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja...@4ax.com>, Mayor of
> > > R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>>> MuahMan:
> > >>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
> >
> > >>> Wally:
> > >>> Actually it does.... See above!
> >
> > >> Mayor of R'lyeh:
> > >> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> > >> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.
> >
> > > When you say that it is "called" Delete, I'm curious as to when it is
> > > called Delete, by whom and where? It's certainly not written *on* the
> > > key, nor is it called "Delete" in the menu when it is used (for moving
> > > files to the trash, in the FInder, for example).
> >
> > > Is it somewhere in the help file? Not even the keyboard viewer shows
> > > "Delete" for it.
> >
> > The word "Delete" on it makes it reasonable to call it a "Delete" key.  Here
> > is a page with images of the keyboard: <http://www.apple.com/keyboard/>.
> >
> > Note the two keys both with the word "Delete" on them.
> >
> > >> Of course the Enter key is also labeled Return.
> >
> > > Huh? Now you're explicitly stating that the enter key, which is on the
> > > numerical keyboard, is *labeled* "Return", which of course is
> > > blatantly false. Not even the return key is labeled "Return". In fact,
> > > the only key outside of ctrl/alt/cmd that has any label at all is the
> > > Delete key, ironically.
> >
> > What the heck are you talking about?  Enter and Return are labeled on the
> > Apple keyboards.
> >
> > --
> > "For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.
> > I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user
> > interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial
> > company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>
> 
> Sandy gets owned by Snit. Lets hope the shame doesn't lead to some
> rash action on Sandman's part.

Hehe, this is pretty cool actually. I use that keyboard daily, and the 
swedish version does not have "Delete" written on the backspace key, 
and as that image also shows, the enter key is no labeled "Return". So 
while you were correct that it was labeled Delete, you were incorrect 
about the enter key being labeled Return.

Here's a photo of the swedish version of the keyboard:

http://sandman.net/files/keyboardse.jpg

As you an see, Americans have a much greater need for labels :-D

My apologies for not checking up on Apples site, I assumed that they 
looked the same in all countries. I think, however, that you could 
have benefitted from looking it up on their site as well :-D

-- 
Sandman[.net]
0
mr249 (22317)
8/23/2008 8:06:24 AM
In article <dr0ua41gm5tsj47vdf1ffi20jht4p9pcj9@4ax.com>,
 Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:

> >LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
> >
> >Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
> 
> That's nothing. On some Apple keyboards the Command key is labeled the
> Apple key but it doesn't open the Apple menu. Now where have I seen an
> eponymous keyboard key before...?

And the tab key doesn't switch between tabs in the interface! Nor does 
the F1-key turn on motorsports in EyeTV and the Enter key doesn't 
actually enter any text! :-D



-- 
Sandman[.net]
0
mr249 (22317)
8/23/2008 8:09:37 AM
On Aug 23, 3:50=A0am, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> "Wally" <Wa...@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D5CA32.3429%Wa...@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 11:07 PM:
>
> ...
>
> >> I have an aluminum Apple keyboard at work that's like that
>
> > And you still say that on your keyboard at work by default you can dele=
te a
> > folder with one keystroke by pressing this particular delete key?
>
> Can you quote him saying that - in relation to OS X that is? =A0On Window=
s one
> can do that... or, at least, have the file be moved to the Recycle Bin. =
=A0On
> OS X one uses Command-Delete to move a file to the Trash.
>
> > And that
> > the multiple delete keys on your work keyboard act in different ways?
>
> The two Delete keys on the Mac keyboard work in different ways. =A0Then a=
gain,
> the two "Enter" keys on a standard keyboard that comes with most Windows
> machines act differently as well.
>
> > "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
>
> > Until someone can confirm that I frankly find it hard to believe based =
on my
> > experience with Apple keyboards!
>
> LOL! =A0You need it confirmed that the two delete keys act differently...=
 even
> though you claim to have an Apple keyboard. =A0Here, since you find it so=
 hard
> to test yourself:
>
> =A0 =A0 <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/delete_file.mov>
>
> Warning, the "Delete" keys are not labeled with the word "Delete" on the
> Apple keyboard viewer... they have symbols. =A0It is, frankly, odd that t=
he
> *Apple* keyboard viewer would have different labels than the *Apple*
> keyboard. =A0None-the-less, you can see in that movie where the two delet=
e
> keys act differently.
>
> And since you expanded the topic to how the delete keys work with text:
>
> =A0 =A0 <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/delete.mov>
>
> There - you can see what keys I pressed and what the result was - one
> deletes forward and the other backwards. =A0Keep in mind this has little =
to do
> with the original topic of deleting *files* in the Finder.
>
> Frankly I find it absolutely amazing you need these type things explained=
 to
> you. =A0I seriously wonder if you will understand and accept the behavior=
 even
> with my showing you in the movies. =A0It will be amusing if you do not. =
=A0:)
>
> ...
>
> --
> If A =3D B and B =3D C, then A =3D C, except where void or prohibited by =
law.
> Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)

Wow, I may have been wrong about Snit. He is certainly making more
sense than the rest of the Mactards lately. He can actually admit to
Apple shortcomings. Something that Sandman/Alan/Dave are simply
incapable of doing for some strange religous like reasons.
0
muahman (3479)
8/23/2008 9:56:14 AM
In article <C4D5D0ED.342D%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> 
wrote:

> On 22/8/08 11:47 PM, in article C4D42D87.D19D6%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
> > "MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
> > 51fef508-3c0f-4963-8bd2-f9b703335add@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com on 8/22/08
> > 12:42 AM:
> > 
> >> On Aug 22, 12:12�am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> 
> >>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> >>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
> >>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> >>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> >>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
> >> they differently?
> >> 
> >> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
> >> 
> >> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
> > 
> > I agree that calling one Back Space makes more sense.
> > 
> 
> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?

On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'. One also has an 
right pointing arrow with an X in it, making it different then the key with no 
symbol on it.

> 
> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense to
> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

-- 
regarding Snit  "You are not flamed because you speak the truth, 
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting 
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
0
Tim
8/23/2008 10:52:32 AM
On 23/8/08 3:22 PM, in article C4D508E0.D1C70%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D5D0ED.342D%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 11:35 PM:
> 
>> On 22/8/08 11:47 PM, in article C4D42D87.D19D6%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> "MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
>>> 51fef508-3c0f-4963-8bd2-f9b703335add@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com on 8/22/08
>>> 12:42 AM:
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 22, 12:12�am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>>> they differently?
>>>> 
>>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>>>> 
>>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>>> 
>>> I agree that calling one Back Space makes more sense.
>>> 
>> 
>> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
>> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?
> 
> It is not speculation - they do act differently.  This is a fact.  Here:
> 
>   <http://www.internet4classrooms.com/mackeyboard.htm>
> 
> Click on the key marked "Delete" and then the key marked "Del" on the image.
> On the Mac keyboard they are both labeled "delete", though one also has an
> icon on it.

Thank you! I was not aware of that difference wrt the insertion point!

But my point still stands neither key will delete a file or folder and both
act in exactly the same way wrt selected text!
 
>> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense to
>> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?
> 
> The keys act differently, Wally.  One deletes the character before the
> insertion point (the one next to the = symbol) and one deletes the character
> after it (the one next to the "end" key).  Why is this even a debate?

Actually it isn't as MuahMans complaint has nothing to do with the
difference that you describe!

>  If
> you did not know how the keys worked just press the darn things while typing
> a reply to me... 

Something must be speculation until proven Snit, it is now proven that as
far as the insertion point is concerned the keys do act differently even
though they may both be marked as Delete, But as I say ...as interesting as
that may be it has nothing to do with deleting files or folders.

> then you will know I (and MuahMan) are right about this and
> you will not have to claim it is merely "speculation".

Actually Snit you have proven even though you clearly don't realize it that
MuahMan was in fact wrong!

You have shown that by deleting in opposite directions the two delete keys
do in fact delete in OS X!

Whereas MuahMan has asked the question 'Why doesn't the delete key delete in
OS X' in the subject line that he authored....

And his conclusion was ...

"Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan

Strange how you are seen agreeing with someone that you have actually proven
to be wrong!  :-)

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/23/2008 12:16:04 PM
On 23/8/08 3:26 PM, in article C4D509A1.D1C72%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D5CE8E.342B%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 11:25 PM:
> 
>> On 22/8/08 11:30 PM, in article C4D42990.D19C3%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
>>> C4D4EB5B.33C3%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 7:16 AM:
>>> 
>>> ...
>>>>> Just so you know, the context was....
>>>> 
>>>> ....made perfectly clear from the subject line!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Or from the authors conclusion...
>>>> 
>>>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X"-MuahMan
>>>> 
>>>> Still think that comments related to deletion are irrelevant Snit?  LOL!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> MuahMan was *clearly* and unambiguously in reference to selecting a file in
>>> the Finder and pressing the delete key with the hopes of having the file be
>>> deleted (or, perhaps if he is a bit wiser, being moved to the Trash).  He
>>> was not in reference to deleting selected text.
>> 
>> "Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>> happens!"-MuahMan
> 
> And he is correct.  To delete the file, as he was clearly looking to do, one
> has to press Command-Delete on a Mac... to be clear the "Delete" on the main
> part of the keyboard, *not* the one above the inverted T arrows.
> 
>> Had he stopped right there I could have overlooked the incorrect subject
>> line ...... But he didn�t!
> 
> His subject like was not incorrect -

To infer that the delete key in OS X does not delete which is what the
subject line does is not correct!

> it was not detailed... but that is what the body of the message is for!

The body of the message is for correcting mistakes contained in the subject
line ? LOL
 
For you I have no doubt that is the case but not normally Snit!
 
>> His conclusion backs up the erroneous subject line!
>> 
>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How intuitive!"-MuahMan
> 
> In the context of files in the Finder he is correct...

Then as I said he should have left it there... But he didn�t!

By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder".

> unless one presses
> the Command key also... and then uses the "correct" Delete key.
> 
>> Did you miss the "in OS X" Snit?
> 
> No - unlike you I did not miss the context of deleting files in the Finder.

And also unlike me you did not read the last line of his post!

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/23/2008 12:30:39 PM
On 23/8/08 6:52 PM, in article
teadams$2$0$0$3-9D02C1.06523223082008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net, "Tim
Adams" <teadams$2$0$0$3@earthlink.net> wrote:

> In article <C4D5D0ED.342D%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally
> <Wally@wally.world.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 22/8/08 11:47 PM, in article C4D42D87.D19D6%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> "MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
>>> 51fef508-3c0f-4963-8bd2-f9b703335add@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com on 8/22/08
>>> 12:42 AM:
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 22, 12:12�am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>>> they differently?
>>>> 
>>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>>>> 
>>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>>> 
>>> I agree that calling one Back Space makes more sense.
>>> 
>> 
>> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
>> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?
> 
> On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'. One also has
> an 
> right pointing arrow with an X in it, making it different then the key with no
> symbol on it.

Thanks Tim I was actually referring to MuahMans comment...

"Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
they differently?"-MuahMan

And I believe that he may have been confused my Mayors comment...

"Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard."-Mayor

>> 
>> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense to
>> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/23/2008 12:49:12 PM
"Tim Adams" <teadams$2$0$0$3@earthlink.net> stated in post
teadams$2$0$0$3-9D02C1.06523223082008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net on
8/23/08 3:52 AM:

> In article <C4D5D0ED.342D%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally
> <Wally@wally.world.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 22/8/08 11:47 PM, in article C4D42D87.D19D6%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> "MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
>>> 51fef508-3c0f-4963-8bd2-f9b703335add@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com on 8/22/08
>>> 12:42 AM:
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 22, 12:12�am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>>> they differently?
>>>> 
>>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>>>> 
>>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>>> 
>>> I agree that calling one Back Space makes more sense.
>>> 
>> 
>> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
>> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?
> 
> On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'. One also has

So they are both labeled "Delete" *but*, as I have said:

    On the Mac keyboard they are both labeled "delete", though one
    also has an icon on it.

Good to see you agree (it would be a very hard argument to make to
disagree!)

> an right pointing arrow with an X in it, making it different then the key with
> no symbol on it.

>> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense to
>> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 



-- 
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing. - Unknown

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 1:07:03 PM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D620B1.345B%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:16 AM:

....
>>> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
>>> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?
>> 
>> It is not speculation - they do act differently.  This is a fact.  Here:
>> 
>>   <http://www.internet4classrooms.com/mackeyboard.htm>
>> 
>> Click on the key marked "Delete" and then the key marked "Del" on the image.
>> On the Mac keyboard they are both labeled "delete", though one also has an
>> icon on it.
> 
> Thank you! I was not aware of that difference wrt the insertion point!

You are welcome - and, Wally, thank you for being willing to admit you did
not know.  I did not expect you to.  It is one of the reasons why the PC
"standard" of labeling one "backspace" makes more sense - it makes it easier
for people to figure out there is a difference.
 
> But my point still stands neither key will delete a file or folder and both
> act in exactly the same way wrt selected text!

Agreed... and there is *no* single key on a Mac that will delete a file (
something that was in question elsewhere).

>>> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense to
>>> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?
>> 
>> The keys act differently, Wally.  One deletes the character before the
>> insertion point (the one next to the = symbol) and one deletes the character
>> after it (the one next to the "end" key).  Why is this even a debate?
> 
> Actually it isn't as MuahMans complaint has nothing to do with the
> difference that you describe!

Correct: he was talking about file deletion in the Finder - you changed the
topic to text deletion.

>> If you did not know how the keys worked just press the darn things while
>> typing a reply to me...
> 
> Something must be speculation until proven Snit, it is now proven that as
> far as the insertion point is concerned the keys do act differently even
> though they may both be marked as Delete, But as I say ...as interesting as
> that may be it has nothing to do with deleting files or folders.

First, I am surprised any relatively experienced Mac user did not know the
difference between the Delete keys - though you humbly admitted to not
knowing and I respect that.  We all have holes in our knowledge... as I have
said it is how we handle our "mistakes" or areas of ignorance that matters
and you handled yours relatively well in this case.  I respect that.

As for having nothing to do with deleting files or folder - of course it
does not (though the keys act differently in regard to that function as
well).  I mention text deletion because you brought up that topic earlier in
this thread.

>> then you will know I (and MuahMan) are right about this and
>> you will not have to claim it is merely "speculation".
> 
> Actually Snit you have proven even though you clearly don't realize it that
> MuahMan was in fact wrong!
> 
> You have shown that by deleting in opposite directions the two delete keys
> do in fact delete in OS X!
>
> Whereas MuahMan has asked the question 'Why doesn't the delete key delete in
> OS X' in the subject line that he authored....
> 
> And his conclusion was ...
> 
> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
> 
> Strange how you are seen agreeing with someone that you have actually proven
> to be wrong!  :-)

Your creative quoting does not change the fact he was in reference to
deleting files and folders in the Finder.   As I showed you elsewhere,
thought, the Delete keys work differently in regards to that function as
well (only one moves the file to the Trash when combined with the Command
key).



-- 
Dear Aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1123221217782777472

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 1:15:51 PM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D6241D.345D%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:30 AM:

> On 23/8/08 3:26 PM, in article C4D509A1.D1C72%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
>> C4D5CE8E.342B%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 11:25 PM:
>> 
>>> On 22/8/08 11:30 PM, in article C4D42990.D19C3%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
>>>> C4D4EB5B.33C3%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 7:16 AM:
>>>> 
>>>> ...
>>>>>> Just so you know, the context was....
>>>>> 
>>>>> ....made perfectly clear from the subject line!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Or from the authors conclusion...
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X"-MuahMan
>>>>> 
>>>>> Still think that comments related to deletion are irrelevant Snit?  LOL!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> MuahMan was *clearly* and unambiguously in reference to selecting a file in
>>>> the Finder and pressing the delete key with the hopes of having the file be
>>>> deleted (or, perhaps if he is a bit wiser, being moved to the Trash).  He
>>>> was not in reference to deleting selected text.
>>> 
>>> "Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>>> happens!"-MuahMan
>> 
>> And he is correct.  To delete the file, as he was clearly looking to do, one
>> has to press Command-Delete on a Mac... to be clear the "Delete" on the main
>> part of the keyboard, *not* the one above the inverted T arrows.
>> 
>>> Had he stopped right there I could have overlooked the incorrect subject
>>> line ...... But he didn�t!
>> 
>> His subject like was not incorrect -
> 
> To infer that the delete key in OS X does not delete which is what the
> subject line does is not correct!
> 
>> it was not detailed... but that is what the body of the message is for!
> 
> The body of the message is for correcting mistakes contained in the subject
> line ? LOL
>  
> For you I have no doubt that is the case but not normally Snit!
>  
>>> His conclusion backs up the erroneous subject line!
>>> 
>>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How intuitive!"-MuahMan
>> 
>> In the context of files in the Finder he is correct...
> 
> Then as I said he should have left it there... But he didn�t!
> 
> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder".
> 
>> unless one presses
>> the Command key also... and then uses the "correct" Delete key.
>> 
>>> Did you miss the "in OS X" Snit?
>> 
>> No - unlike you I did not miss the context of deleting files in the Finder.
> 
> And also unlike me you did not read the last line of his post!
> 
Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was *clearly*
in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His context
was clear.


-- 
When thinking changes your mind, that's philosophy.
When God changes your mind, that's faith.
When facts change your mind, that's science.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 1:16:57 PM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D62875.3461%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:49 AM:

> On 23/8/08 6:52 PM, in article
> teadams$2$0$0$3-9D02C1.06523223082008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net, "Tim
> Adams" <teadams$2$0$0$3@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> In article <C4D5D0ED.342D%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally
>> <Wally@wally.world.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 22/8/08 11:47 PM, in article C4D42D87.D19D6%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> "MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
>>>> 51fef508-3c0f-4963-8bd2-f9b703335add@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com on
>>>> 8/22/08
>>>> 12:42 AM:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 22, 12:12�am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>>>> they differently?
>>>>> 
>>>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>>>> 
>>>> I agree that calling one Back Space makes more sense.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
>>> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?
>> 
>> On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'. One also has
>> an 
>> right pointing arrow with an X in it, making it different then the key with
>> no
>> symbol on it.
> 
> Thanks Tim I was actually referring to MuahMans comment...
> 
> "Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
> they differently?"-MuahMan
> 
> And I believe that he may have been confused my Mayors comment...
> 
> "Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard."-Mayor

And he is correct... the key that is generally called "Backspace" in the PC
world is called "Delete" on a Mac keyboard.
> 
>>> 
>>> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense to
>>> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?
> 



-- 
Teachers open the door but you must walk through it yourself.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 1:21:35 PM
"MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
2ee09f11-6fe8-4633-9cdd-1298effcf5d7@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com on 8/23/08
2:56 AM:

> On Aug 23, 3:50�am, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> "Wally" <Wa...@wally.world.net> stated in post
>> C4D5CA32.3429%Wa...@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 11:07 PM:
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>>>> I have an aluminum Apple keyboard at work that's like that
>> 
>>> And you still say that on your keyboard at work by default you can delete a
>>> folder with one keystroke by pressing this particular delete key?
>> 
>> Can you quote him saying that - in relation to OS X that is? �On Windows one
>> can do that... or, at least, have the file be moved to the Recycle Bin. �On
>> OS X one uses Command-Delete to move a file to the Trash.
>> 
>>> And that
>>> the multiple delete keys on your work keyboard act in different ways?
>> 
>> The two Delete keys on the Mac keyboard work in different ways. �Then again,
>> the two "Enter" keys on a standard keyboard that comes with most Windows
>> machines act differently as well.
>> 
>>> "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
>> 
>>> Until someone can confirm that I frankly find it hard to believe based on my
>>> experience with Apple keyboards!
>> 
>> LOL! �You need it confirmed that the two delete keys act differently... even
>> though you claim to have an Apple keyboard. �Here, since you find it so hard
>> to test yourself:
>> 
>> � � <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/delete_file.mov>
>> 
>> Warning, the "Delete" keys are not labeled with the word "Delete" on the
>> Apple keyboard viewer... they have symbols. �It is, frankly, odd that the
>> *Apple* keyboard viewer would have different labels than the *Apple*
>> keyboard. �None-the-less, you can see in that movie where the two delete
>> keys act differently.
>> 
>> And since you expanded the topic to how the delete keys work with text:
>> 
>> � � <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/delete.mov>
>> 
>> There - you can see what keys I pressed and what the result was - one
>> deletes forward and the other backwards. �Keep in mind this has little to do
>> with the original topic of deleting *files* in the Finder.
>> 
>> Frankly I find it absolutely amazing you need these type things explained to
>> you. �I seriously wonder if you will understand and accept the behavior even
>> with my showing you in the movies. �It will be amusing if you do not. �:)
>> 
>> ...
> 
> Wow, I may have been wrong about Snit. He is certainly making more
> sense than the rest of the Mactards lately. He can actually admit to
> Apple shortcomings. Something that Sandman/Alan/Dave are simply
> incapable of doing for some strange religous like reasons.

I prefer OS X for most things - that does not mean OS X and Macs are not
without flaws.  Some of my personal pet peeves: the single menu - while this
was a benefit for small single screens it can be a detriment for larger or
(even more so) dual screens, the lack of physical eject button on drives (to
the point where third party drive's buttons do not even work!), the lack of
ability to resize by any edge of a window...

These are things I have been saying for a long time... when first entering
CSMA I pointed to my comparison site that listed several weaknesses for OS X
/ Macs.


-- 
Teachers open the door but you must walk through it yourself.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 1:26:19 PM
Mayor Of R'lyeh wrote:
> On Aug 22, 7:24 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
>> MuahMan wrote:
>>> On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>> they differently?
>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>> It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two exchanges
>> between two wintrolls!
> 
> Unable to counter  with actual facts nospamatall hurls invectives.

Fact is there are not 2 keys labeled delete, so the first premise was 
bollocks, and second one, which was based off the first, was thus also 
bollocks. I pointed out how amazing it is when 2 wintrolls stray from 
reality into their fantasy land, that is not invective. Maybe you should 
look big words up before you use them.

Andy
0
nospamatall2 (3238)
8/23/2008 2:02:14 PM
"Sandman" <mr@sandman.net> stated in post
mr-13ADF8.10062423082008@News.Individual.NET on 8/23/08 1:06 AM:

> In article 
> <d086f9f3-6a93-4075-9328-61fa50780294@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
>  "Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Aug 22, 3:30 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
>>> mr-3B1F4A.19014222082...@News.Individual.NET on 8/22/08 10:01 AM:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> In article <uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja...@4ax.com>, Mayor of
>>>> R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>>>> MuahMan:
>>>>>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>>> 
>>>>>> Wally:
>>>>>> Actually it does.... See above!
>>> 
>>>>> Mayor of R'lyeh:
>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.
>>> 
>>>> When you say that it is "called" Delete, I'm curious as to when it is
>>>> called Delete, by whom and where? It's certainly not written *on* the
>>>> key, nor is it called "Delete" in the menu when it is used (for moving
>>>> files to the trash, in the FInder, for example).
>>> 
>>>> Is it somewhere in the help file? Not even the keyboard viewer shows
>>>> "Delete" for it.
>>> 
>>> The word "Delete" on it makes it reasonable to call it a "Delete" key.  Here
>>> is a page with images of the keyboard: <http://www.apple.com/keyboard/>.
>>> 
>>> Note the two keys both with the word "Delete" on them.
>>> 
>>>>> Of course the Enter key is also labeled Return.
>>> 
>>>> Huh? Now you're explicitly stating that the enter key, which is on the
>>>> numerical keyboard, is *labeled* "Return", which of course is
>>>> blatantly false. Not even the return key is labeled "Return". In fact,
>>>> the only key outside of ctrl/alt/cmd that has any label at all is the
>>>> Delete key, ironically.
>>> 
>>> What the heck are you talking about?  Enter and Return are labeled on the
>>> Apple keyboards.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> "For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.
>>> I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user
>>> interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial
>>> company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>
>> 
>> Sandy gets owned by Snit. Lets hope the shame doesn't lead to some
>> rash action on Sandman's part.
> 
> Hehe, this is pretty cool actually. I use that keyboard daily, and the
> swedish version does not have "Delete" written on the backspace key,
> and as that image also shows, the enter key is no labeled "Return". So
> while you were correct that it was labeled Delete, you were incorrect
> about the enter key being labeled Return.
> 
> Here's a photo of the swedish version of the keyboard:
> 
> http://sandman.net/files/keyboardse.jpg
> 
> As you an see, Americans have a much greater need for labels :-D
> 
> My apologies for not checking up on Apples site, I assumed that they
> looked the same in all countries. I think, however, that you could
> have benefitted from looking it up on their site as well :-D

Thanks, Sandman, for again jumping in to agree with me.


-- 
Teachers open the door but you must walk through it yourself.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 2:12:32 PM
On 23/8/08 9:15 PM, in article C4D55B97.D1CF2%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D620B1.345B%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:16 AM:
> 
> ...
>>>> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
>>>> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?
>>> 
>>> It is not speculation - they do act differently.  This is a fact.  Here:
>>> 
>>>   <http://www.internet4classrooms.com/mackeyboard.htm>
>>> 
>>> Click on the key marked "Delete" and then the key marked "Del" on the image.
>>> On the Mac keyboard they are both labeled "delete", though one also has an
>>> icon on it.
>> 
>> Thank you! I was not aware of that difference wrt the insertion point!
> 
> You are welcome - and, Wally, thank you for being willing to admit you did
> not know.  I did not expect you to.  It is one of the reasons why the PC
> "standard" of labeling one "backspace" makes more sense - it makes it easier
> for people to figure out there is a difference.
> 
>> But my point still stands neither key will delete a file or folder and both
>> act in exactly the same way wrt selected text!
> 
> Agreed... and there is *no* single key on a Mac that will delete a file (
> something that was in question elsewhere).
> 
>>>> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense to
>>>> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?
>>> 
>>> The keys act differently, Wally.  One deletes the character before the
>>> insertion point (the one next to the = symbol) and one deletes the character
>>> after it (the one next to the "end" key).  Why is this even a debate?
>> 
>> Actually it isn't as MuahMans complaint has nothing to do with the
>> difference that you describe!
> 
> Correct: he was talking about file deletion in the Finder - you changed the
> topic to text deletion.

Actually no! I mentioned text deletion to counter MuahMans conclusion that
the Delete key (either one) did not actually delete in OS X!

"Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan

Is it your position that text deletion does not constitute deletion in OS X?
If it isn't then you *must* agree that his conclusion was wrong!
 
>>> If you did not know how the keys worked just press the darn things while
>>> typing a reply to me...
>> 
>> Something must be speculation until proven Snit, it is now proven that as
>> far as the insertion point is concerned the keys do act differently even
>> though they may both be marked as Delete, But as I say ...as interesting as
>> that may be it has nothing to do with deleting files or folders.
> 
> First, I am surprised any relatively experienced Mac user did not know the
> difference between the Delete keys - though you humbly admitted to not
> knowing and I respect that.

Firstly I do not find it at all surprising that I didn�t know how the
insertion point acted differently wrt the two delete keys as I only ever use
one delete key the second is completely wasted on me, and secondly I would
not "humbly" admit to not knowing something that I have never had cause to
consider! I have no problem admitting that my knowledge has been expanded
due to this thread, you should not assume that my reaction would be akin to
yours Snit!

> We all have holes in our knowledge... as I have
> said it is how we handle our "mistakes" or areas of ignorance that matters
> and you handled yours relatively well in this case.  I respect that.
> 
> As for having nothing to do with deleting files or folder - of course it
> does not (though the keys act differently in regard to that function as
> well).
>
>  I mention text deletion because you brought up that topic earlier in
> this thread.
> 
>>> then you will know I (and MuahMan) are right about this and
>>> you will not have to claim it is merely "speculation".
>> 
>> Actually Snit you have proven even though you clearly don't realize it that
>> MuahMan was in fact wrong!
>> 
>> You have shown that by deleting in opposite directions the two delete keys
>> do in fact delete in OS X!
>> 
>> Whereas MuahMan has asked the question 'Why doesn't the delete key delete in
>> OS X' in the subject line that he authored....
>> 
>> And his conclusion was ...
>> 
>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
>> 
>> Strange how you are seen agreeing with someone that you have actually proven
>> to be wrong!  :-)
> 
> Your creative quoting does not change the fact he was in reference to
> deleting files and folders in the Finder.

His conclusion referenced OS X *that* removed any restriction that may have
confined his comments to files and folders in the finder!

>  As I showed you elsewhere,
> thought, the Delete keys work differently in regards to that function as
> well (only one moves the file to the Trash when combined with the Command
> key).
 

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/23/2008 4:05:11 PM
On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

<snip>

> Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was *clearly*
> in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His context
> was clear.
> 

By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/23/2008 4:08:30 PM
nospamatall wrote:
> Mayor Of R'lyeh wrote:
>> On Aug 22, 7:24 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
>>> MuahMan wrote:
>>>> On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>>> they differently?
>>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>>> It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two exchanges
>>> between two wintrolls!
>>
>> Unable to counter  with actual facts nospamatall hurls invectives.
> 
> Fact is there are not 2 keys labeled delete, so the first premise was 
> bollocks, and second one, which was based off the first, was thus also 
> bollocks. I pointed out how amazing it is when 2 wintrolls stray from 
> reality into their fantasy land, that is not invective. Maybe you should 
> look big words up before you use them.
> 
> Andy

There *are* two keys labeled delete on my aluminum keyboard.

Steve
0
steve13 (4870)
8/23/2008 4:16:30 PM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D6572C.3491%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:08 AM:

> On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was *clearly*
>> in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His context
>> was clear.
>> 
> 
> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
> therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.

You missed the context... the horse is dead, stop beating it.


-- 
Teachers open the door but you must walk through it yourself.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 4:23:40 PM
On 23/8/08 9:21 PM, in article C4D55CEF.D1CF9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:


>> 
>> Thanks Tim I was actually referring to MuahMans comment...
>> 
>> "Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>> they differently?"-MuahMan
>> 
>> And I believe that he may have been confused my Mayors comment...
>> 
>> "Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard."-Mayor
> 
> And he is correct... the key that is generally called "Backspace" in the PC
> world is called "Delete" on a Mac keyboard.

And where exactly did I say that was not the case?


0
wally1870 (4724)
8/23/2008 4:24:29 PM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D65665.348F%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:05 AM:

> On 23/8/08 9:15 PM, in article C4D55B97.D1CF2%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
>> C4D620B1.345B%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:16 AM:
>> 
>> ...
>>>>> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
>>>>> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?
>>>> 
>>>> It is not speculation - they do act differently.  This is a fact.  Here:
>>>> 
>>>>   <http://www.internet4classrooms.com/mackeyboard.htm>
>>>> 
>>>> Click on the key marked "Delete" and then the key marked "Del" on the
>>>> image.
>>>> On the Mac keyboard they are both labeled "delete", though one also has an
>>>> icon on it.
>>> 
>>> Thank you! I was not aware of that difference wrt the insertion point!
>> 
>> You are welcome - and, Wally, thank you for being willing to admit you did
>> not know.  I did not expect you to.  It is one of the reasons why the PC
>> "standard" of labeling one "backspace" makes more sense - it makes it easier
>> for people to figure out there is a difference.
>> 
>>> But my point still stands neither key will delete a file or folder and both
>>> act in exactly the same way wrt selected text!
>> 
>> Agreed... and there is *no* single key on a Mac that will delete a file (
>> something that was in question elsewhere).
>> 
>>>>> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense
>>>>> to
>>>>> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?
>>>> 
>>>> The keys act differently, Wally.  One deletes the character before the
>>>> insertion point (the one next to the = symbol) and one deletes the
>>>> character
>>>> after it (the one next to the "end" key).  Why is this even a debate?
>>> 
>>> Actually it isn't as MuahMans complaint has nothing to do with the
>>> difference that you describe!
>> 
>> Correct: he was talking about file deletion in the Finder - you changed the
>> topic to text deletion.
> 
> Actually no! I mentioned text deletion to counter MuahMans conclusion that
> the Delete key (either one) did not actually delete in OS X!
> 
> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
> 
> Is it your position that text deletion does not constitute deletion in OS X?
> If it isn't then you *must* agree that his conclusion was wrong!
>  
>>>> If you did not know how the keys worked just press the darn things while
>>>> typing a reply to me...
>>> 
>>> Something must be speculation until proven Snit, it is now proven that as
>>> far as the insertion point is concerned the keys do act differently even
>>> though they may both be marked as Delete, But as I say ...as interesting as
>>> that may be it has nothing to do with deleting files or folders.
>> 
>> First, I am surprised any relatively experienced Mac user did not know the
>> difference between the Delete keys - though you humbly admitted to not
>> knowing and I respect that.
> 
> Firstly I do not find it at all surprising that I didn�t know how the
> insertion point acted differently wrt the two delete keys as I only ever use
> one delete key the second is completely wasted on me, and secondly I would
> not "humbly" admit to not knowing something that I have never had cause to
> consider! I have no problem admitting that my knowledge has been expanded
> due to this thread, you should not assume that my reaction would be akin to
> yours Snit!
> 
>> We all have holes in our knowledge... as I have
>> said it is how we handle our "mistakes" or areas of ignorance that matters
>> and you handled yours relatively well in this case.  I respect that.
>> 
>> As for having nothing to do with deleting files or folder - of course it
>> does not (though the keys act differently in regard to that function as
>> well).
>> 
>>  I mention text deletion because you brought up that topic earlier in
>> this thread.
>> 
>>>> then you will know I (and MuahMan) are right about this and
>>>> you will not have to claim it is merely "speculation".
>>> 
>>> Actually Snit you have proven even though you clearly don't realize it that
>>> MuahMan was in fact wrong!
>>> 
>>> You have shown that by deleting in opposite directions the two delete keys
>>> do in fact delete in OS X!
>>> 
>>> Whereas MuahMan has asked the question 'Why doesn't the delete key delete in
>>> OS X' in the subject line that he authored....
>>> 
>>> And his conclusion was ...
>>> 
>>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
>>> 
>>> Strange how you are seen agreeing with someone that you have actually proven
>>> to be wrong!  :-)
>> 
>> Your creative quoting does not change the fact he was in reference to
>> deleting files and folders in the Finder.
> 
> His conclusion referenced OS X *that* removed any restriction that may have
> confined his comments to files and folders in the finder!
> 
>>  As I showed you elsewhere,
>> thought, the Delete keys work differently in regards to that function as
>> well (only one moves the file to the Trash when combined with the Command
>> key).
>  
> 
You misrepresented my views (by implication), showed you did not understand
the context of MuahMan's first post, and demonstrated your lack of
understanding of the concept of being humble.  Lovely.  Frankly you have
been playing the same record over and over... do you have another tune?


-- 
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 4:26:17 PM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D65AEA.3493%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:24 AM:

> On 23/8/08 9:21 PM, in article C4D55CEF.D1CF9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks Tim I was actually referring to MuahMans comment...
>>> 
>>> "Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>> they differently?"-MuahMan
>>> 
>>> And I believe that he may have been confused my Mayors comment...
>>> 
>>> "Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard."-Mayor
>> 
>> And he is correct... the key that is generally called "Backspace" in the PC
>> world is called "Delete" on a Mac keyboard.
> 
> And where exactly did I say that was not the case?

So you agree with me that there are two "delete" keys on the Apple keyboard
(at least the US version).  OK.  Tim Adams denied this:

    On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'.

He then went on to describe keys that make it seem like he has a US
keyboard.  The inclusion of an "arrow" symbol confused him to the point
where he did not understand that it was still labeled "delete".

By the way, the symbol is referred to as the "Erase to the Right" symbol in
Unicode (Unicode Character 2326, or U-2326, which is also used to reference
a U-Boat that was surrendered at Dundee, Scotland on 14 May 1945.)  Tim
Adams called the "erase to the right" symbol and arrow, but the arrow that
points to the right is U+2192, not U-2326.  That is not as bad as calling
the caps-lock symbol an exclamation point, as Steve Carroll did when he
referenced the symbol on the right side of a log-in field (U+21EA).  :)


-- 
Satan lives for my sins... now *that* is dedication!

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 4:45:18 PM
On Aug 23, 12:16=A0pm, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
> nospamatall wrote:
> > Mayor Of R'lyeh wrote:
> >> On Aug 22, 7:24 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
> >>> MuahMan wrote:
> >>>> On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
> >>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason th=
e
> >>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course th=
e
> >>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewrite=
rs
> >>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order fo=
r
> >>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
> >>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
> >>>> they differently?
> >>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
> >>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
> >>> It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two exchanges
> >>> between two wintrolls!
>
> >> Unable to counter =A0with actual facts nospamatall hurls invectives.
>
> > Fact is there are not 2 keys labeled delete, so the first premise was
> > bollocks, and second one, which was based off the first, was thus also
> > bollocks. I pointed out how amazing it is when 2 wintrolls stray from
> > reality into their fantasy land, that is not invective. Maybe you shoul=
d
> > look big words up before you use them.
>
> > Andy
>
> There *are* two keys labeled delete on my aluminum keyboard.
>
> Steve- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ditto. Why would they lie about his. I'm looking right at two Delete
keys. LOL

0
muahman (3479)
8/23/2008 6:04:06 PM
"MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
4623cdc6-660b-4459-9f23-7f6d09e34670@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com on 8/23/08
11:04 AM:

> On Aug 23, 12:16�pm, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>> nospamatall wrote:
>>> Mayor Of R'lyeh wrote:
>>>> On Aug 22, 7:24 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
>>>>> MuahMan wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>>>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>>>>> they differently?
>>>>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>>>>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>>>>> It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two exchanges
>>>>> between two wintrolls!
>> 
>>>> Unable to counter �with actual facts nospamatall hurls invectives.
>> 
>>> Fact is there are not 2 keys labeled delete, so the first premise was
>>> bollocks, and second one, which was based off the first, was thus also
>>> bollocks. I pointed out how amazing it is when 2 wintrolls stray from
>>> reality into their fantasy land, that is not invective. Maybe you should
>>> look big words up before you use them.
>> 
>>> Andy
>> 
>> There *are* two keys labeled delete on my aluminum keyboard.
>> 
>> Steve- Hide quoted text -
>> 
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Ditto. Why would they lie about his. I'm looking right at two Delete
> keys. LOL
> 
Well, Sandman at least had a non-US keyboard, so I can understand his
denial... but Tim Adams just got confused by the "arrow" symbol... he could
not figure out that it was also called "delete" and was even labeled as
such!


-- 
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments
that take our breath away.



0
usenet2 (47889)
8/23/2008 6:06:43 PM
> On 23/8/08 2:28 AM, in article n41ua4tnsu9907j5tgqj7fggol9tki9oor@4ax.com,
> "Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:44:53 GMT, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 22/8/08 12:12 PM, in article 
> >> uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja1tk@4ax.com,
> >> "Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:25:10 GMT, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
> >>>> a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f566054de@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, 
> >>>> "MuahMan"
> >>>> <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
> >>>>> happens!
> >>>> 
> >>>> Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key. 
> >>>> Bam!
> >>>> ... It's gone!
> >>>> 
> >>>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Actually it does.... See above!
> >>> 
> >>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> >>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.
> >> 
> >> On a Mac keyboard? Or a Mac compatible keyboard?
> > 
> > I have an aluminum Apple keyboard at work that's like that

Sort of. The backspace key is labeled "delete".  There's no key labeled 
"backspace".

There's also a forward delete key to the immediate right of the main 
keyboard, left of the numeric keypad.

On a MacBook Pro, which doesn't have a separate keypad, you can get the 
forward delete function by typing fn-delete.
0
sehix (4160)
8/23/2008 8:19:21 PM
In article <C4D6572C.3491%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> 
wrote:

> On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was *clearly*
> > in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His context
> > was clear.
> > 
> 
> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
> therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.

Did you really think that michael glasser could follow a thread? The title 
itself should be clear enough but then theirs the poor prescott computer guy.
A couple of months ago john tried to add a graphic card to a MacBook Pro and 
michael jumped in and claimed the use of the word 'macs' 'changed the topic' 
from the MacBook Pro to _all Macs_. Now michael glasser is trying to claim the 
failure to mention _deleting files_ in the topic limited the topic to that one 
case only. Can anybody say hypocrite, or is the term idiot more appropriate?

-- 
regarding Snit  "You are not flamed because you speak the truth, 
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting 
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
0
Tim
8/23/2008 10:25:36 PM
On Aug 23, 10:02 am, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
> Mayor Of R'lyeh wrote:
> > On Aug 22, 7:24 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
> >> MuahMan wrote:
> >>> On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> >>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
> >>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> >>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> >>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
> >>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
> >>> they differently?
> >>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
> >>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
> >> It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two exchanges
> >> between two wintrolls!
>
> > Unable to counter  with actual facts nospamatall hurls invectives.
>
> Fact is there are not 2 keys labeled delete, so the first premise was
> bollocks,

The actual fact is that plenty of your fellow Maccies have not only
acknowledged the existence of two keys labeled 'Delete' they've
defended the practice. And if that's not enough to dissuade you from
continually denying reality then take a look at http://www.apple.com/keyboard/
and enlarge the picture on the left. That's the keyboard I use 5 days
a week. It plainly has two keys labeled 'Delete'. It seems that Apple
is 'bollocks' also.

> and second one, which was based off the first, was thus also
> bollocks.

Since the first premise was spot on as I've now proved beyond a shadow
of a doubt then the second is also spot on.

> I pointed out how amazing it is when 2 wintrolls stray from
> reality into their fantasy land, that is not invective. Maybe you should
> look big words up before you use them.

Maybe you should verify what reality is before you go declaring
everything you don't find convenient as 'fantasy'. You won't look this
stupid as often.

0
8/23/2008 11:08:28 PM
On Aug 23, 2:07 am, Wally <Wa...@wally.world.net> wrote:
> On 23/8/08 2:28 AM, in article n41ua4tnsu9907j5tgqj7fggol9tki9...@4ax.com=
,
> "Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:44:53 GMT, Wally <Wa...@wally.world.net> wrote:
>
> >> On 22/8/08 12:12 PM, in article uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja...@4ax=
..com,
> >> "Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:25:10 GMT, Wally <Wa...@wally.world.net> wrote=
:
>
> >>>> On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
> >>>> a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f56605...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "M=
uahMan"
> >>>> <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
> >>>>> happens!
>
> >>>> Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key=
.. Bam!
> >>>> ... It's gone!
>
> >>>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>
> >>>> Actually it does.... See above!
>
> >>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> >>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.
>
> >> On a Mac keyboard? Or a Mac compatible keyboard?
>
> > I have an aluminum Apple keyboard at work that's like that
>
> And you still say that on your keyboard at work by default you can delete=
 a
> folder with one keystroke by pressing this particular delete key? And tha=
t
> the multiple delete keys on your work keyboard act in different ways?
>
> "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
>
> Until someone can confirm that I frankly find it hard to believe based on=
 my
> experience with Apple keyboards!

My travels today took me by work so I stopped in. It appears I was in
error. Neither Delete key will delete a new folder I made on the
desktop. Command-Delete does if you use the Delete key that is in the
same place as a Delete key on a PC keyboard but it won't if you use
the Delete key where a Backspace key is on a PC keyboard. So yes, they
do behave in different ways. In all other ways (unless someone has
another specific instance of how they differ that I'm not aware of)
the Delete key where a Delete key is on a PC keyboard functions as a
Delete key on a PC keybopard does while the Delete key where a
Backspace key is on a PC keyboard functions as a Backspace key on a PC
keyboard.

>
>
>
> >> All my Apple supplied keyboards over the years have had the Delete key=
 in
> >> the position that you mention.
> >> My Logitech has a back arrow and 'Back' on it, my son's Logitech merel=
y has
> >> an arrow pointing back on it!
>
> >>> Of course the
> >>> Enter key is also labeled Return.
> >>> Its as if Apple thought typewriters
> >>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
> >>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>
> >> I notice from your later comments that you make a habit of assuming wh=
at
> >> people think!
>
> > Any honest reading of my comment will reveal that it was speculation
> > not declaration.
>
> An honest reading of your comments is not the issue, after all anyone
> reading your statement..
>
> "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
>
> ..could honestly assume that you knew what you were talking about, but it
> now appears that you need to check that opinion when you get back to work=
!

Nice. Since the aforementioned exchange made you look a little
unreasonable you felt the need to pretend it was about something other
than what it was. It seems that not all of Snit's complaints about you
are as unfounded as I originally believed.

>
>
>
>
>
> >>>>> How intuitive!
>
> >>>> Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you m=
ay well
> >>>> understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
> >>>> files/folders can be accidentally selected!
>
> >>> And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right Delet=
e
> >>> key.
>
> >> Not from where I am sitting I have tried without success to do that wi=
th a
> >> Mac keyboard (two delete keys) and a Logitech wave keyboard (a Back ke=
y and
> >> one Delete).
>
> >> Perhaps you could explain further how to delete a folder with one key
> >> stroke?
>
> > I'm pretty sure I have. I'll try it again Monday and report back.
>
> Pretty sure?
>
> "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
>
> Appears to be more than being "pretty sure"?
>
> Of course we are all capable of making statements based on nothing more t=
han
> simply being "pretty sure" such as my view that MM secretly loves OS X, b=
ut
> in this case I am pretty sure that I have more chance of being right than
> you have!

We were both 1 out of 2. The Delete key does not delete a folder but
the two delete keys do behave differently. I doubt if MM has any real
feelings about MacOS X either way. If he could get a rise out of you
by making fun of grape jelly I'm sure he'd be doing that as well.
That's the only reason he does what he does.

>
>
>
> >>>> If it wasn=B9t for that you would spend most of the day looking for =
that
> >>>> which
> >>>> you have 'accidentally' deleted and you would have less time to bitc=
h about
> >>>> the OS that you secretly love.
>
> >>> Because the only possible reason people complain about something is
> >>> that they secretly love it.
>
> >> Was I talking generally or was it that "you" was not enough of a clue?
>
> >>> Why don't you go explain your theory to a
> >>> group of Holocaust survivors?
>
> >> Because a specific statement relating to one person would not necessar=
ily
> >> apply to an unrelated group of people! strange that you need to ask.
>
> >>> I'm sure they'd like to know how much
> >>> they secretly love Nazis.
>
> >> Are you? And you're also sure that the 'group" would jump to the same
> >> erroneous conclusion as you did?

0
8/23/2008 11:33:43 PM
On 24/8/08 12:23 AM, in article C4D5879C.D1ED0%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D6572C.3491%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:08 AM:
> 
>> On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>> <snip>
>> 
>>> Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was *clearly*
>>> in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His context
>>> was clear.
>>> 
>> 
>> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
>> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
>> therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.
> 
> You missed the context...

I missed nothing!

> the horse is dead, stop beating it.

Dream on Snit! 


0
wally1870 (4724)
8/24/2008 5:26:14 AM
On 24/8/08 12:26 AM, in article C4D58839.D1ED2%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D65665.348F%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:05 AM:
> 
>> On 23/8/08 9:15 PM, in article C4D55B97.D1CF2%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
>>> C4D620B1.345B%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:16 AM:
>>> 
>>> ...
>>>>>> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
>>>>>> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is not speculation - they do act differently.  This is a fact.  Here:
>>>>> 
>>>>>   <http://www.internet4classrooms.com/mackeyboard.htm>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Click on the key marked "Delete" and then the key marked "Del" on the
>>>>> image.
>>>>> On the Mac keyboard they are both labeled "delete", though one also has an
>>>>> icon on it.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you! I was not aware of that difference wrt the insertion point!
>>> 
>>> You are welcome - and, Wally, thank you for being willing to admit you did
>>> not know.  I did not expect you to.  It is one of the reasons why the PC
>>> "standard" of labeling one "backspace" makes more sense - it makes it easier
>>> for people to figure out there is a difference.
>>> 
>>>> But my point still stands neither key will delete a file or folder and both
>>>> act in exactly the same way wrt selected text!
>>> 
>>> Agreed... and there is *no* single key on a Mac that will delete a file (
>>> something that was in question elsewhere).
>>> 
>>>>>> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The keys act differently, Wally.  One deletes the character before the
>>>>> insertion point (the one next to the = symbol) and one deletes the
>>>>> character
>>>>> after it (the one next to the "end" key).  Why is this even a debate?
>>>> 
>>>> Actually it isn't as MuahMans complaint has nothing to do with the
>>>> difference that you describe!
>>> 
>>> Correct: he was talking about file deletion in the Finder - you changed the
>>> topic to text deletion.
>> 
>> Actually no! I mentioned text deletion to counter MuahMans conclusion that
>> the Delete key (either one) did not actually delete in OS X!
>> 
>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
>> 
>> Is it your position that text deletion does not constitute deletion in OS X?
>> If it isn't then you *must* agree that his conclusion was wrong!
>>  
>>>>> If you did not know how the keys worked just press the darn things while
>>>>> typing a reply to me...
>>>> 
>>>> Something must be speculation until proven Snit, it is now proven that as
>>>> far as the insertion point is concerned the keys do act differently even
>>>> though they may both be marked as Delete, But as I say ...as interesting as
>>>> that may be it has nothing to do with deleting files or folders.
>>> 
>>> First, I am surprised any relatively experienced Mac user did not know the
>>> difference between the Delete keys - though you humbly admitted to not
>>> knowing and I respect that.
>> 
>> Firstly I do not find it at all surprising that I didn�t know how the
>> insertion point acted differently wrt the two delete keys as I only ever use
>> one delete key the second is completely wasted on me, and secondly I would
>> not "humbly" admit to not knowing something that I have never had cause to
>> consider! I have no problem admitting that my knowledge has been expanded
>> due to this thread, you should not assume that my reaction would be akin to
>> yours Snit!
>> 
>>> We all have holes in our knowledge... as I have
>>> said it is how we handle our "mistakes" or areas of ignorance that matters
>>> and you handled yours relatively well in this case.  I respect that.
>>> 
>>> As for having nothing to do with deleting files or folder - of course it
>>> does not (though the keys act differently in regard to that function as
>>> well).
>>> 
>>>  I mention text deletion because you brought up that topic earlier in
>>> this thread.
>>> 
>>>>> then you will know I (and MuahMan) are right about this and
>>>>> you will not have to claim it is merely "speculation".
>>>> 
>>>> Actually Snit you have proven even though you clearly don't realize it that
>>>> MuahMan was in fact wrong!
>>>> 
>>>> You have shown that by deleting in opposite directions the two delete keys
>>>> do in fact delete in OS X!
>>>> 
>>>> Whereas MuahMan has asked the question 'Why doesn't the delete key delete
>>>> in
>>>> OS X' in the subject line that he authored....
>>>> 
>>>> And his conclusion was ...
>>>> 
>>>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
>>>> 
>>>> Strange how you are seen agreeing with someone that you have actually
>>>> proven
>>>> to be wrong!  :-)
>>> 
>>> Your creative quoting does not change the fact he was in reference to
>>> deleting files and folders in the Finder.
>> 
>> His conclusion referenced OS X *that* removed any restriction that may have
>> confined his comments to files and folders in the finder!
>> 
>>>  As I showed you elsewhere,
>>> thought, the Delete keys work differently in regards to that function as
>>> well (only one moves the file to the Trash when combined with the Command
>>> key).
>>  
>> 
> You misrepresented my views (by implication),

Why can't you answer a simple question...

"Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
 
Is it your position that text deletion does not constitute deletion in OS X?

> showed you did not understand the context of MuahMan's first post,

How could the context not be seen as deletion in OS X?

"Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan

I ask you that question as you are the only one that missed that fact!

> and demonstrated your lack of
> understanding of the concept of being humble.

Nope!

> Lovely.  Frankly you have
> been playing the same record over and over... do you have another tune?



 

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/24/2008 5:34:33 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D71417.34CF%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 10:34 PM:

>> You misrepresented my views (by implication),
> 
> Why can't you answer a simple question...
> 
> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
>  
> Is it your position that text deletion does not constitute deletion in OS X?
> 
>> showed you did not understand the context of MuahMan's first post,
> 
> How could the context not be seen as deletion in OS X?
> 
> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
> 
> I ask you that question as you are the only one that missed that fact!
> 
>> and demonstrated your lack of
>> understanding of the concept of being humble.
> 
> Nope!
> 
>> Lovely.  Frankly you have
>> been playing the same record over and over... do you have another tune?

Why do you *continue* to pretend the topic was something other than file /
folder deletion in the Finder?

-- 
When thinking changes your mind, that's philosophy.
When God changes your mind, that's faith.
When facts change your mind, that's science.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:49:20 AM
On 24/8/08 12:45 AM, in article C4D58CAE.D1EE7%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D65AEA.3493%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:24 AM:
> 
>> On 23/8/08 9:21 PM, in article C4D55CEF.D1CF9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks Tim I was actually referring to MuahMans comment...
>>>> 
>>>> "Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>>> they differently?"-MuahMan
>>>> 
>>>> And I believe that he may have been confused my Mayors comment...
>>>> 
>>>> "Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard."-Mayor
>>> 
>>> And he is correct... the key that is generally called "Backspace" in the PC
>>> world is called "Delete" on a Mac keyboard.
>> 
>> And where exactly did I say that was not the case?
> 
> So you agree with me that there are two "delete" keys on the Apple keyboard
> (at least the US version).  OK.

Steve De Mena has stated that his has two "delete" keys and as I consider
him to be an accurate source yes I will agree with you!

> Tim Adams denied this:
> 
>   On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'.

Your obvious reading problem appears to have lead you astray Snit, Tim
actually said  "they are not both only labeled 'Delete'" you appear to have
missed "only" he is clearly not saying that they are not marked "delete",
you are not doing too well here Snit first you misunderstand the context of
MuahMans comment and now you misunderstand what it was that Tim actually
said! no wonder threads stretch out when you are involved Snit it's like
discussing two things at once with you ... First there's reality and then
there's what you believe!  LOL

> He then went on to describe keys that make it seem like he has a US
> keyboard.  The inclusion of an "arrow" symbol confused him to the point
> where he did not understand that it was still labeled "delete".

The only confusion was yours Snit caused by missing what Tim actually
said...

"On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'"-Tim Adams

Very strange how you can post the quote but simply not understand it! LOL

> 
> By the way, the symbol is referred to as the "Erase to the Right" symbol in
> Unicode (Unicode Character 2326, or U-2326, which is also used to reference
> a U-Boat that was surrendered at Dundee, Scotland on 14 May 1945.)  Tim
> Adams called the "erase to the right" symbol and arrow, but the arrow that
> points to the right is U+2192, not U-2326.  That is not as bad as calling
> the caps-lock symbol an exclamation point, as Steve Carroll did when he
> referenced the symbol on the right side of a log-in field (U+21EA).  :)
> 

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/24/2008 5:51:40 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D71224.34CD%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 10:26 PM:

> On 24/8/08 12:23 AM, in article C4D5879C.D1ED0%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
>> C4D6572C.3491%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:08 AM:
>> 
>>> On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> <snip>
>>> 
>>>> Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was *clearly*
>>>> in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His context
>>>> was clear.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
>>> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
>>> therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.
>> 
>> You missed the context...
> 
> I missed nothing!
> 
>> the horse is dead, stop beating it.
> 
> Dream on Snit! 
> 
> 
    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.


-- 
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments
that take our breath away.



0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:51:50 AM
"Tim Adams" <teadams$2$0$0$3@earthlink.net> stated in post
teadams$2$0$0$3-68E9A8.18253623082008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net on
8/23/08 3:25 PM:

> In article <C4D6572C.3491%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally
> <Wally@wally.world.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>> <snip>
>> 
>>> Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was *clearly*
>>> in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His context
>>> was clear.
>>> 
>> 
>> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
>> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
>> therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.
> 
> Did you really think that michael glxsser could follow a thread?

The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You and Wally missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is
very, very clear... and yet you both missed it.

....

-- 
"In order to discover who you are, first learn who everybody else is. You're
what's left." - Skip Hansen

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:52:37 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D6572C.3491%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:08 AM:

> On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was *clearly*
>> in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His context
>> was clear.
>> 
> 
> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
> therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.
> 
The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.

-- 
The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of
limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and
great nations. - David Friedman

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:53:08 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D65665.348F%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:05 AM:

>>> Actually it isn't as MuahMans complaint has nothing to do with the
>>> difference that you describe!
>> 
>> Correct: he was talking about file deletion in the Finder - you changed the
>> topic to text deletion.
> 
> Actually no! I mentioned text deletion to counter MuahMans conclusion that
> the Delete key (either one) did not actually delete in OS X!
> 
> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
> 
> Is it your position that text deletion does not constitute deletion in OS X?
> If it isn't then you *must* agree that his conclusion was wrong!

The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.


-- 
"In order to discover who you are, first learn who everybody else is. You're
what's left." - Skip Hansen

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:53:31 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D65665.348F%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:05 AM:

>> Your creative quoting does not change the fact he was in reference to
>> deleting files and folders in the Finder.
> 
> His conclusion referenced OS X *that* removed any restriction that may have
> confined his comments to files and folders in the finder!

The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.


-- 
BU__SH__



0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:53:53 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D6241D.345D%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:30 AM:

>> His subject like was not incorrect -
> 
> To infer that the delete key in OS X does not delete which is what the
> subject line does is not correct!

The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.


-- 
"For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.
I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user
interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial
company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:54:11 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D6241D.345D%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:30 AM:

>>> His conclusion backs up the erroneous subject line!
>>> 
>>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How intuitive!"-MuahMan
>> 
>> In the context of files in the Finder he is correct...
> 
> Then as I said he should have left it there... But he didn�t!
> 
> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder".

The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.


-- 
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)





0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:54:27 AM
On 24/8/08 2:06 AM, in article C4D59FC3.D1F20%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
> 4623cdc6-660b-4459-9f23-7f6d09e34670@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com on 8/23/08
> 11:04 AM:
> 
>> On Aug 23, 12:16�pm, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>>> nospamatall wrote:
>>>> Mayor Of R'lyeh wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 22, 7:24 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
>>>>>> MuahMan wrote:
>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>>>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>>>>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>>>>>> they differently?
>>>>>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>>>>>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>>>>>> It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two exchanges
>>>>>> between two wintrolls!
>>> 
>>>>> Unable to counter �with actual facts nospamatall hurls invectives.
>>> 
>>>> Fact is there are not 2 keys labeled delete, so the first premise was
>>>> bollocks, and second one, which was based off the first, was thus also
>>>> bollocks. I pointed out how amazing it is when 2 wintrolls stray from
>>>> reality into their fantasy land, that is not invective. Maybe you should
>>>> look big words up before you use them.
>>> 
>>>> Andy
>>> 
>>> There *are* two keys labeled delete on my aluminum keyboard.
>>> 
>>> Steve- Hide quoted text -
>>> 
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> 
>> Ditto. Why would they lie about his. I'm looking right at two Delete
>> keys. LOL
>> 
> Well, Sandman at least had a non-US keyboard, so I can understand his
> denial... but Tim Adams just got confused by the "arrow" symbol... he could
> not figure out that it was also called "delete" and was even labeled as
> such!
> 

"On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'"-Tim Adams

Shows no sign of confusion Snit, where did you get that impression from?

Are you saying that Tim is incorrect? 

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/24/2008 5:54:30 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D6241D.345D%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:30 AM:

>>> Did you miss the "in OS X" Snit?
>> 
>> No - unlike you I did not miss the context of deleting files in the Finder.
> 
> And also unlike me you did not read the last line of his post!

The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.


-- 
I think we [the folks who make Linux desktops] don't yet deliver a good
enough user experience.
- Mark Shuttleworth (founded Canonical Ltd. / Ubuntu Linux)

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:54:39 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D620B1.345B%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:16 AM:

> Whereas MuahMan has asked the question 'Why doesn't the delete key delete in
> OS X' in the subject line that he authored....
> 
> And his conclusion was ...
> 
> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
> 
> Strange how you are seen agreeing with someone that you have actually proven
> to be wrong!  :-)

The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.


-- 
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:55:13 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D5CE8E.342B%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/22/08 11:25 PM:

> His conclusion backs up the erroneous subject line!
> 
> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How intuitive!"-MuahMan
> 
> Did you miss the "in OS X" Snit? It may come as a surprise to you but OS X
> comprises far more than the Finder!

The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.


-- 
The answer to the water shortage is to dilute it.

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 5:55:32 AM
On 24/8/08 6:25 AM, in article
teadams$2$0$0$3-68E9A8.18253623082008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net, "Tim
Adams" <teadams$2$0$0$3@earthlink.net> wrote:

> In article <C4D6572C.3491%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally
> <Wally@wally.world.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>> <snip>
>> 
>>> Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was *clearly*
>>> in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His context
>>> was clear.
>>> 
>> 
>> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
>> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
>> therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.
> 
> Did you really think that michael glasser could follow a thread?

Hell no! so far he has missed the context of MuahMans comments,
misunderstood what it was that you said even though he had even quoted it,
Just business as usual for comprehension impaired Snit!

> The title 
> itself should be clear enough but then theirs the poor prescott computer guy.
> A couple of months ago john tried to add a graphic card to a MacBook Pro and
> michael jumped in and claimed the use of the word 'macs' 'changed the topic'
> from the MacBook Pro to _all Macs_. Now michael glasser is trying to claim the
> failure to mention _deleting files_ in the topic limited the topic to that one
> case only. Can anybody say hypocrite, or is the term idiot more appropriate?

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/24/2008 5:58:45 AM
On 24/8/08 7:33 AM, in article
768c03f3-5131-4e99-823a-bbc7f83ec10c@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com, "Mayor Of
R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 23, 2:07 am, Wally <Wa...@wally.world.net> wrote:
>> On 23/8/08 2:28 AM, in article n41ua4tnsu9907j5tgqj7fggol9tki9...@4ax.com,
>> "Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:44:53 GMT, Wally <Wa...@wally.world.net> wrote:
>> 
>>>> On 22/8/08 12:12 PM, in article uqesa4tv3tco7uk3dn6uvjm4bcorvja...@4ax.com,
>>>> "Mayor of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:25:10 GMT, Wally <Wa...@wally.world.net> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> On 21/8/08 5:46 PM, in article
>>>>>> a4733d67-a2f4-4f14-8680-0e9f56605...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com,
>>>>>> "MuahMan"
>>>>>> <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>> Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam! Nothing
>>>>>>> happens!
>> 
>>>>>> Highlight a portion of text in a text document. Hit the "Delete" key.
>>>>>> Bam!
>>>>>> ... It's gone!
>> 
>>>>>>> Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X.
>> 
>>>>>> Actually it does.... See above!
>> 
>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard.
>> 
>>>> On a Mac keyboard? Or a Mac compatible keyboard?
>> 
>>> I have an aluminum Apple keyboard at work that's like that
>> 
>> And you still say that on your keyboard at work by default you can delete a
>> folder with one keystroke by pressing this particular delete key? And that
>> the multiple delete keys on your work keyboard act in different ways?
>> 
>> "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
>> 
>> Until someone can confirm that I frankly find it hard to believe based on my
>> experience with Apple keyboards!
> 
> My travels today took me by work so I stopped in. It appears I was in
> error.

It can happen!

> Neither Delete key will delete a new folder I made on the
> desktop.

OK!

> Command-Delete does if you use the Delete key that is in the
> same place as a Delete key on a PC keyboard but it won't if you use
> the Delete key where a Backspace key is on a PC keyboard.

Yup! I too learned something about the differences wrt the actions
associated with the two delete keys.

> So yes, they
> do behave in different ways. In all other ways (unless someone has
> another specific instance of how they differ that I'm not aware of)
> the Delete key where a Delete key is on a PC keyboard functions as a
> Delete key on a PC keybopard does while the Delete key where a
> Backspace key is on a PC keyboard functions as a Backspace key on a PC
> keyboard.

Sounds about right!

Frankly IMO neither Mac nor PC have labeled those keys in a way that
accurately describes their function under all situations,

'Backspace' deletes backwards so why "space" 'Back Delete" seem more
appropriate, on my Logitech Wave it is marked Back but makes no mention of
Delete! and the other marked "Delete" make no mention of direction!

And my Mac keyboard one marked "Delete" does not indicate direction whilst
the other has "Delete" but does indicate forward!

Why not "Back Delete" and Forward Delete"?   Too obvious?

It's really a case of ignore what they're called just get to know what they
do through experience I guess!

>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> All my Apple supplied keyboards over the years have had the Delete key in
>>>> the position that you mention.
>>>> My Logitech has a back arrow and 'Back' on it, my son's Logitech merely has
>>>> an arrow pointing back on it!
>> 
>>>>> Of course the
>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return.
>>>>> Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>> 
>>>> I notice from your later comments that you make a habit of assuming what
>>>> people think!
>> 
>>> Any honest reading of my comment will reveal that it was speculation
>>> not declaration.
>> 
>> An honest reading of your comments is not the issue, after all anyone
>> reading your statement..
>> 
>> "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
>> 
>> ..could honestly assume that you knew what you were talking about, but it
>> now appears that you need to check that opinion when you get back to work!
> 
> Nice. Since the aforementioned exchange made you look a little
> unreasonable you felt the need to pretend it was about something other
> than what it was.

There is a difference between being unreasonable and not being honest, If
you think I was being unreasonable then that is one thing, But to imply that
I gave your comments anything but an honest reading was ironically
unreasonable of you!

> It seems that not all of Snit's complaints about you
> are as unfounded as I originally believed.

Snit will complain about anything that attempts to drag him back to the
reality of a thread, form your own opinions based on your own experience
would be my advise!
 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> How intuitive!
>> 
>>>>>> Look at the number of typo's that you make in your posting and you may
>>>>>> well
>>>>>> understand why for someone like you command/delete is essential as
>>>>>> files/folders can be accidentally selected!
>> 
>>>>> And can be deleted with a single keystroke if you get the right Delete
>>>>> key.
>> 
>>>> Not from where I am sitting I have tried without success to do that with a
>>>> Mac keyboard (two delete keys) and a Logitech wave keyboard (a Back key and
>>>> one Delete).
>> 
>>>> Perhaps you could explain further how to delete a folder with one key
>>>> stroke?
>> 
>>> I'm pretty sure I have. I'll try it again Monday and report back.
>> 
>> Pretty sure?
>> 
>> "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
>> 
>> Appears to be more than being "pretty sure"?
>> 
>> Of course we are all capable of making statements based on nothing more than
>> simply being "pretty sure" such as my view that MM secretly loves OS X, but
>> in this case I am pretty sure that I have more chance of being right than
>> you have!
> 
> We were both 1 out of 2.

YUP!

> The Delete key does not delete a folder

That was your lesson learned!

>but the two delete keys do behave differently.

And that was mine!

> I doubt if MM has any real
> feelings about MacOS X either way.

You're simply stating an opinion!

> If he could get a rise out of you
> by making fun of grape jelly I'm sure he'd be doing that as well.
> That's the only reason he does what he does.

And my stating that he secretly loves OS X could not possibly have been made
with the intention of getting a rise out of him? .... Why not?

> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>>> If it wasn�t for that you would spend most of the day looking for that
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> you have 'accidentally' deleted and you would have less time to bitch
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> the OS that you secretly love.
>> 
>>>>> Because the only possible reason people complain about something is
>>>>> that they secretly love it.
>> 
>>>> Was I talking generally or was it that "you" was not enough of a clue?
>> 
>>>>> Why don't you go explain your theory to a
>>>>> group of Holocaust survivors?
>> 
>>>> Because a specific statement relating to one person would not necessarily
>>>> apply to an unrelated group of people! strange that you need to ask.
>> 
>>>>> I'm sure they'd like to know how much
>>>>> they secretly love Nazis.
>> 
>>>> Are you? And you're also sure that the 'group" would jump to the same
>>>> erroneous conclusion as you did?
> 

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/24/2008 7:04:13 AM
On 24/8/08 1:49 PM, in article C4D64470.D2018%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
 
> Why do you *continue* to pretend the topic was something other than file /
> folder deletion in the Finder?

"Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan

No pretence evident in MuahMans conclusion Snit! why do you pretend
otherwise?

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/24/2008 7:15:57 AM
On 24/8/08 1:51 PM, in article C4D64506.D201B%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D71224.34CD%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 10:26 PM:
> 
>> On 24/8/08 12:23 AM, in article C4D5879C.D1ED0%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
>>> C4D6572C.3491%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:08 AM:
>>> 
>>>> On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
>>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> <snip>
>>>> 
>>>>> Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was *clearly*
>>>>> in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His context
>>>>> was clear.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
>>>> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
>>>> therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.
>>> 
>>> You missed the context...
>> 
>> I missed nothing!
>> 
>>> the horse is dead, stop beating it.
>> 
>> Dream on Snit! 
>> 
>> 
>   Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
>   Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
>   intuitive!
> 
> You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
> clear... and yet you missed it.
> 

I dealt with MuahMans conclusion ... Not what lead up to it!

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/24/2008 7:18:07 AM
On 24/8/08 1:53 PM, in article C4D6456B.D201E%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D65665.348F%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:05 AM:
> 
>>>> Actually it isn't as MuahMans complaint has nothing to do with the
>>>> difference that you describe!
>>> 
>>> Correct: he was talking about file deletion in the Finder - you changed the
>>> topic to text deletion.
>> 
>> Actually no! I mentioned text deletion to counter MuahMans conclusion that
>> the Delete key (either one) did not actually delete in OS X!
>> 
>> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
>> 
>> Is it your position that text deletion does not constitute deletion in OS X?

Is that question really that hard for you to answer Snit?

>> If it isn't then you *must* agree that his conclusion was wrong!
> 
> The entire text from the post in question:
> 
>   Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
>   Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
>   intuitive!

His conclusion that Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X was wrong it is
that simple!

> You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
> clear... and yet you missed it.

"Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."

Was wrong! get over it!

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/24/2008 7:21:33 AM
In article <C4D71819.34D3%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> 
wrote:

> On 24/8/08 12:45 AM, in article C4D58CAE.D1EE7%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
> > "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> > C4D65AEA.3493%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 9:24 AM:
> > 
> >> On 23/8/08 9:21 PM, in article 
> >> C4D55CEF.D1CF9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> >> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Thanks Tim I was actually referring to MuahMans comment...
> >>>> 
> >>>> "Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
> >>>> they differently?"-MuahMan
> >>>> 
> >>>> And I believe that he may have been confused my Mayors comment...
> >>>> 
> >>>> "Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
> >>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard."-Mayor
> >>> 
> >>> And he is correct... the key that is generally called "Backspace" in the 
> >>> PC
> >>> world is called "Delete" on a Mac keyboard.
> >> 
> >> And where exactly did I say that was not the case?
> > 
> > So you agree with me that there are two "delete" keys on the Apple keyboard
> > (at least the US version).  OK.
> 
> Steve De Mena has stated that his has two "delete" keys and as I consider
> him to be an accurate source yes I will agree with you!
> 
> > Tim Adams denied this:
> > 
> >   On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'.
> 
> Your obvious reading problem appears to have lead you astray Snit, Tim
> actually said  "they are not both only labeled 'Delete'" you appear to have
> missed "only" he is clearly not saying that they are not marked "delete",
> you are not doing too well here Snit first you misunderstand the context of
> MuahMans comment and now you misunderstand what it was that Tim actually
> said! no wonder threads stretch out when you are involved Snit it's like
> discussing two things at once with you ... First there's reality and then
> there's what you believe!  LOL
> 
> > He then went on to describe keys that make it seem like he has a US
> > keyboard.  The inclusion of an "arrow" symbol confused him to the point
> > where he did not understand that it was still labeled "delete".
> 
> The only confusion was yours Snit caused by missing what Tim actually
> said...
> 
> "On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'"-Tim Adams
> 
> Very strange how you can post the quote but simply not understand it! LOL

michael glasser, aka prescott computer guy's reading comprehension at it's 
finest.

> 
> > 
> > By the way, the symbol is referred to as the "Erase to the Right" symbol in
> > Unicode (Unicode Character 2326, or U-2326, which is also used to reference
> > a U-Boat that was surrendered at Dundee, Scotland on 14 May 1945.)  Tim
> > Adams called the "erase to the right" symbol and arrow, but the arrow that
> > points to the right is U+2192, not U-2326.  That is not as bad as calling
> > the caps-lock symbol an exclamation point, as Steve Carroll did when he
> > referenced the symbol on the right side of a log-in field (U+21EA).  :)
> >

-- 
regarding Snit  "You are not flamed because you speak the truth, 
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting 
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
0
Tim
8/24/2008 10:10:20 AM
In article 
<768c03f3-5131-4e99-823a-bbc7f83ec10c@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>, 
"Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rlyeh@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Wally:
> > And you still say that on your keyboard at work by default you can
> > delete a folder with one keystroke by pressing this particular
> > delete key? And that the multiple delete keys on your work
> > keyboard act in different ways?
> > 
> > "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
> > 
> > Until someone can confirm that I frankly find it hard to believe
> > based on my experience with Apple keyboards!

> Mayor Of R'lyeh:
> My travels today took me by work so I stopped in. It appears I was
> in error. Neither Delete key will delete a new folder I made on the
> desktop. Command-Delete does if you use the Delete key that is in
> the same place as a Delete key on a PC keyboard but it won't if you
> use the Delete key where a Backspace key is on a PC keyboard.

Actually, it's the other way around. cmd-backspace moves files to the 
trash in the finder.

> So yes, they do behave in different ways.

Of course, they are two different keys. One is a forward delete, and 
one is a backward delete (aka backspace). Both deletes character (in 
text context) and bot are labeled differently (i.e. on american 
keyboards, the forward delete is properly labeled as "delete" with a 
forward symbol on it).

> In all other ways (unless someone has another specific instance of
> how they differ that I'm not aware of) the Delete key where a Delete
> key is on a PC keyboard functions as a Delete key on a PC keybopard
> does while the Delete key where a Backspace key is on a PC keyboard
> functions as a Backspace key on a PC keyboard.

I.e. they function pretty much exactly as their labelling suggest they 
function.

> Mayor Of R'lyeh:
> We were both 1 out of 2. The Delete key does not delete a folder but
> the two delete keys do behave differently.

Which, of course, is expected, since they are labeled differently. 
Now, the shift keys are labeled identically so they behave identically.

Even the option (alt) keys are labeled identically and behave 
accordingly.

In fact, if you are to claim that Backspace and Forward delete is 
labeled identically (which I'm sure is exactly what you're trying to 
do here) I might add that they differ as much as "Alt" and "Alt Gr" 
does on a PC keyboard, which are two "Alt" keys that behave 
differently. :-D

> I doubt if MM has any real feelings about MacOS X either way. If he
> could get a rise out of you by making fun of grape jelly I'm sure
> he'd be doing that as well. That's the only reason he does what he
> does.

No doubt.

-- 
Sandman[.net]
0
mr249 (22317)
8/24/2008 10:10:54 AM
In article <C4D719C3.34D7%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> 
wrote:

> On 24/8/08 6:25 AM, in article
> teadams$2$0$0$3-68E9A8.18253623082008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net, "Tim
> Adams" <teadams$2$0$0$3@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> > In article <C4D6572C.3491%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally
> > <Wally@wally.world.net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article 
> >> C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> >> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> <snip>
> >> 
> >>> Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was 
> >>> *clearly*
> >>> in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His 
> >>> context
> >>> was clear.
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
> >> scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
> >> therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.
> > 
> > Did you really think that michael glasser could follow a thread?
> 
> Hell no! so far he has missed the context of MuahMans comments,
> misunderstood what it was that you said even though he had even quoted it,

Hell, michael glasser couldn't even understand "On my aluminum keyboard they are 
not both only labeled 'Delete'". Even the link that Mayor Of R'lyeh included in 
his post (http://www.apple.com/keyboard/) shows the keyboard where everybody can 
see that the 2 keys in question are not labeled identically. 


> Just business as usual for comprehension impaired Snit!
> 
> > The title 
> > itself should be clear enough but then theirs the poor prescott computer 
> > guy.
> > A couple of months ago john tried to add a graphic card to a MacBook Pro 
> > and
> > michael jumped in and claimed the use of the word 'macs' 'changed the 
> > topic'
> > from the MacBook Pro to _all Macs_. Now michael glasser is trying to claim 
> > the
> > failure to mention _deleting files_ in the topic limited the topic to that 
> > one
> > case only. Can anybody say hypocrite, or is the term idiot more 
> > appropriate?

-- 
regarding Snit  "You are not flamed because you speak the truth, 
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting 
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
0
Tim
8/24/2008 10:17:27 AM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D72BDB.34F0%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/24/08 12:15 AM:

> On 24/8/08 1:49 PM, in article C4D64470.D2018%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>  
>> Why do you *continue* to pretend the topic was something other than file /
>> folder deletion in the Finder?
> 
> "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X."-MuahMan
> 
> No pretence evident in MuahMans conclusion Snit! why do you pretend
> otherwise?
> 
The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.


-- 
Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly
slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond
imagination.  - attributed to Albert Einstein, likely apocryphal

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 1:36:07 PM
"Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
C4D72919.34D9%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/24/08 12:04 AM:

>> My travels today took me by work so I stopped in. It appears I was in
>> error.
> 
> It can happen!
> 
>> Neither Delete key will delete a new folder I made on the
>> desktop.
> 
> OK!
> 
>> Command-Delete does if you use the Delete key that is in the
>> same place as a Delete key on a PC keyboard but it won't if you use
>> the Delete key where a Backspace key is on a PC keyboard.
> 
> Yup! I too learned something about the differences wrt the actions
> associated with the two delete keys.
> 
>> So yes, they
>> do behave in different ways. In all other ways (unless someone has
>> another specific instance of how they differ that I'm not aware of)
>> the Delete key where a Delete key is on a PC keyboard functions as a
>> Delete key on a PC keybopard does while the Delete key where a
>> Backspace key is on a PC keyboard functions as a Backspace key on a PC
>> keyboard.
> 
> Sounds about right!
> 
> Frankly IMO neither Mac nor PC have labeled those keys in a way that
> accurately describes their function under all situations,
> 
> 'Backspace' deletes backwards so why "space" 'Back Delete" seem more
> appropriate, on my Logitech Wave it is marked Back but makes no mention of
> Delete! and the other marked "Delete" make no mention of direction!
> 
> And my Mac keyboard one marked "Delete" does not indicate direction whilst
> the other has "Delete" but does indicate forward!
> 
> Why not "Back Delete" and Forward Delete"?   Too obvious?
> 
> It's really a case of ignore what they're called just get to know what they
> do through experience I guess!

On the Mac, though, both are called "Delete"... at least on PC keyboards
they use different terms.

The Unicode term for the symbols are "erase to the right" and "erase to the
left".  Even if keyboards used this rather wordy description that would not
accurately describe the functions of the keys... it would not describe the
ability of both keys to delete selected text nor the ability of one of the
keys to delete a file (on a Mac with the use of the Command key in
conjunction).

I would say the PC "way" is better - the keys have different names.  Still,
before PC folks get too smug, why are the "Enter" and "Return" keys labeled
the same on most PC keyboards.  Sure, their usage overlaps - but they do act
in different ways in some circumstances.

....
>>> An honest reading of your comments is not the issue, after all anyone
>>> reading your statement..
>>> 
>>> "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
>>> 
>>> ..could honestly assume that you knew what you were talking about, but it
>>> now appears that you need to check that opinion when you get back to work!
>> 
>> Nice. Since the aforementioned exchange made you look a little
>> unreasonable you felt the need to pretend it was about something other
>> than what it was.
> 
> There is a difference between being unreasonable and not being honest, If
> you think I was being unreasonable then that is one thing, But to imply that
> I gave your comments anything but an honest reading was ironically
> unreasonable of you!

The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

You missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  It is very, very
clear... and yet you missed it.  OK, we all make mistakes.  But even when
your mistake was pointed out you refused to acknowledge it... and kept
insisting your *clearly* incorrect claim was a reasonable interpretation.
This was not honest of you.
 
>> It seems that not all of Snit's complaints about you
>> are as unfounded as I originally believed.
> 
> Snit will complain about anything that attempts to drag him back to the
> reality of a thread, form your own opinions based on your own experience
> would be my advise!

.... 
>>> Pretty sure?
>>> 
>>> "it depends on which Delete key you hit."-Mayor of R'lyeh
>>> 
>>> Appears to be more than being "pretty sure"?
>>> 
>>> Of course we are all capable of making statements based on nothing more than
>>> simply being "pretty sure" such as my view that MM secretly loves OS X, but
>>> in this case I am pretty sure that I have more chance of being right than
>>> you have!
>> 
>> We were both 1 out of 2.
> 
> YUP!
> 
>> The Delete key does not delete a folder
> 
> That was your lesson learned!
> 
>> but the two delete keys do behave differently.
> 
> And that was mine!

And I was correct about both of those *but* I made a mistake in reading Tim
Adams' comments about the different symbols of the keys... so be it.

You were also incorrect about reading MuahMan's comments... and you have not
been willing to acknowledge that.

....


-- 
"Uh... ask me after we ship the next version of Windows [laughs] then I'll
be more open to give you a blunt answer." - Bill Gates
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/gates/>

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 1:54:58 PM
"Sandman" <mr@sandman.net> stated in post
mr-516EFB.12105424082008@News.Individual.NET on 8/24/08 3:10 AM:

>> Mayor Of R'lyeh:
>> We were both 1 out of 2. The Delete key does not delete a folder but
>> the two delete keys do behave differently.
> 
> Which, of course, is expected, since they are labeled differently.
> Now, the shift keys are labeled identically so they behave identically.

According to Apple's documentation there are times when you have to use the
left shift key:

<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/cdb_strtup.html>
<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.5/en/cdb_strtup.html>
    -----
    Prevent automatic login
    When you see the progress indicator (looks like a spinning gear),
    hold down the left Shift key.
    -----

And some notes on specific keyboards:

<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306699>
    -----
    Issue or symptom
    The right Shift key on an aluminum Apple Keyboard (2007) does
    not work when using the Kotoeri shortcut (Option+Shift+Fn+F5)
    to switch to 'Romaji' input mode.

    Products affected
    Apple Keyboard (2007)

    Solution
    The keyboard functions as designed. Please use the left Shift
    key of the aluminum Apple Keyboard to use the Kotoeri
    shortcut to switch to 'Romaji' input mode.
    -----

So the shift keys are not *quite* identical in function.




-- 
It usually takes me more than three weeks to prepare a good impromptu
speech. -- Mark Twain

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 2:11:03 PM
On Aug 24, 1:54=A0am, Wally <Wa...@wally.world.net> wrote:
> On 24/8/08 2:06 AM, in article C4D59FC3.D1F20%use...@gallopinginsanity.co=
m,
>
>
>
>
>
> "Snit" <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > "MuahMan" <muah...@gmail.com> stated in post
> > 4623cdc6-660b-4459-9f23-7f6d09e34...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com on 8/=
23/08
> > 11:04 AM:
>
> >> On Aug 23, 12:16=A0pm, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
> >>> nospamatall wrote:
> >>>> Mayor Of R'lyeh wrote:
> >>>>> On Aug 22, 7:24 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
> >>>>>> MuahMan wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> w=
rote:
> >>>>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason=
 the
> >>>>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course=
 the
> >>>>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewr=
iters
> >>>>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order=
 for
> >>>>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
> >>>>>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" b=
ut
> >>>>>>> they differently?
> >>>>>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
> >>>>>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtfu=
l.
> >>>>>> It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two exchan=
ges
> >>>>>> between two wintrolls!
>
> >>>>> Unable to counter =A0with actual facts nospamatall hurls invectives=
..
>
> >>>> Fact is there are not 2 keys labeled delete, so the first premise wa=
s
> >>>> bollocks, and second one, which was based off the first, was thus al=
so
> >>>> bollocks. I pointed out how amazing it is when 2 wintrolls stray fro=
m
> >>>> reality into their fantasy land, that is not invective. Maybe you sh=
ould
> >>>> look big words up before you use them.
>
> >>>> Andy
>
> >>> There *are* two keys labeled delete on my aluminum keyboard.
>
> >>> Steve- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> Ditto. Why would they lie about his. I'm looking right at two Delete
> >> keys. LOL
>
> > Well, Sandman at least had a non-US keyboard, so I can understand his
> > denial... but Tim Adams just got confused by the "arrow" symbol... he c=
ould
> > not figure out that it was also called "delete" and was even labeled as
> > such!
>
> "On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'"-Tim Ada=
ms
>
> Shows no sign of confusion Snit, where did you get that impression from?
>
> Are you saying that Tim is incorrect?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Wally you are doing an amazing job of playing stupid. You are playing
right?
0
muahman (3479)
8/24/2008 2:26:01 PM
"MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
f4ae75ea-d7da-41c0-a9c7-763292061226@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com on 8/24/08
7:26 AM:

....
>> "On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'"-Tim Adams
>> 
>> Shows no sign of confusion Snit, where did you get that impression from?
>> 
>> Are you saying that Tim is incorrect?- Hide quoted text -
>> 
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Wally you are doing an amazing job of playing stupid. You are playing
> right?

The entire text from the post in question:

    Highlight a file in finder. Hit the "Delete" key. Bam!
    Nothing happens!  Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X. How
    intuitive!

Wally missed the context: deletion of a file in the Finder.  OK... he made a
mistake.  His lack of willingness to admit to his mistake, however, is where
he is making his bigger error.



-- 
"Uh... ask me after we ship the next version of Windows [laughs] then I'll
be more open to give you a blunt answer." - Bill Gates
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/gates/>

0
usenet2 (47889)
8/24/2008 2:44:24 PM
On 24/8/08 10:26 PM, in article
f4ae75ea-d7da-41c0-a9c7-763292061226@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
<muahman@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 24, 1:54�am, Wally <Wa...@wally.world.net> wrote:
>> On 24/8/08 2:06 AM, in article C4D59FC3.D1F20%use...@gallopinginsanity.com,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "Snit" <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> "MuahMan" <muah...@gmail.com> stated in post
>>> 4623cdc6-660b-4459-9f23-7f6d09e34...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com on 8/23/08
>>> 11:04 AM:
>> 
>>>> On Aug 23, 12:16�pm, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>>>>> nospamatall wrote:
>>>>>> Mayor Of R'lyeh wrote:
>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 7:24 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
>>>>>>>> MuahMan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason the
>>>>>>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course the
>>>>>>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought typewriters
>>>>>>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order for
>>>>>>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
>>>>>>>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
>>>>>>>>> they differently?
>>>>>>>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
>>>>>>>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
>>>>>>>> It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two exchanges
>>>>>>>> between two wintrolls!
>> 
>>>>>>> Unable to counter �with actual facts nospamatall hurls invectives.
>> 
>>>>>> Fact is there are not 2 keys labeled delete, so the first premise was
>>>>>> bollocks, and second one, which was based off the first, was thus also
>>>>>> bollocks. I pointed out how amazing it is when 2 wintrolls stray from
>>>>>> reality into their fantasy land, that is not invective. Maybe you should
>>>>>> look big words up before you use them.
>> 
>>>>>> Andy
>> 
>>>>> There *are* two keys labeled delete on my aluminum keyboard.
>> 
>>>>> Steve- Hide quoted text -
>> 
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>> 
>>>> Ditto. Why would they lie about his. I'm looking right at two Delete
>>>> keys. LOL
>> 
>>> Well, Sandman at least had a non-US keyboard, so I can understand his
>>> denial... but Tim Adams just got confused by the "arrow" symbol... he could
>>> not figure out that it was also called "delete" and was even labeled as
>>> such!
>> 
>> "On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'"-Tim Adams
>> 
>> Shows no sign of confusion Snit, where did you get that impression from?
>> 
>> Are you saying that Tim is incorrect?- Hide quoted text -
>> 
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Wally you are doing an amazing job of playing stupid. You are playing
> right?

I'll take a chance and assume that you are able to absorb two facts in a
very short space of time MuahMan...

Tim did not say that both keys were not labeled Delete! He said that they
were not *only* labeled Delete!
 

0
wally1870 (4724)
8/25/2008 10:37:01 AM
In article <C4D58CAE.D1EE7%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>,
 Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> That is not as bad as calling
> the caps-lock symbol an exclamation point, as Steve Carroll did when he
> referenced the symbol on the right side of a log-in field (U+21EA).  :)


A thing you continue to falsely claim but can never provide any proof for;)

-- 
"Apple is pushing how green this is - but it [Macbook Air] is 
clearly disposable... when the battery dies you can pretty much 
just throw it away". - Snit
0
trollkiller (3346)
8/25/2008 4:28:20 PM
In article <C4D55B97.D1CF2%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>,
 Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "Wally" <Wally@wally.world.net> stated in post
> C4D620B1.345B%Wally@wally.world.net on 8/23/08 5:16 AM:
> 
> ...
> >>> So you are agreeing with MuahMan's speculation that the two keys labeled
> >>> 'Delete' on an Apple keyboard act differently?
> >> 
> >> It is not speculation - they do act differently.  This is a fact.  Here:
> >> 
> >>   <http://www.internet4classrooms.com/mackeyboard.htm>
> >> 
> >> Click on the key marked "Delete" and then the key marked "Del" on the 
> >> image.
> >> On the Mac keyboard they are both labeled "delete", though one also has an
> >> icon on it.
> > 
> > Thank you! I was not aware of that difference wrt the insertion point!
> 
> You are welcome - and, Wally, thank you for being willing to admit you did
> not know.  I did not expect you to.  It is one of the reasons why the PC
> "standard" of labeling one "backspace" makes more sense - it makes it easier
> for people to figure out there is a difference.
>  
> > But my point still stands neither key will delete a file or folder and both
> > act in exactly the same way wrt selected text!
> 
> Agreed... and there is *no* single key on a Mac that will delete a file (
> something that was in question elsewhere).
> 
> >>> If you're not agreeing with him on that point why does it make any sense 
> >>> to
> >>> you to have two identically functioning keys labeled differently?
> >> 
> >> The keys act differently, Wally.  One deletes the character before the
> >> insertion point (the one next to the = symbol) and one deletes the 
> >> character
> >> after it (the one next to the "end" key).  Why is this even a debate?
> > 
> > Actually it isn't as MuahMans complaint has nothing to do with the
> > difference that you describe!
> 
> Correct: he was talking about file deletion in the Finder - you changed the
> topic to text deletion.
> 
> >> If you did not know how the keys worked just press the darn things while
> >> typing a reply to me...
> > 
> > Something must be speculation until proven Snit, it is now proven that as
> > far as the insertion point is concerned the keys do act differently even
> > though they may both be marked as Delete, But as I say ...as interesting as
> > that may be it has nothing to do with deleting files or folders.
> 
> First, I am surprised any relatively experienced Mac user did not know the
> difference between the Delete keys - though you humbly admitted to not
> knowing and I respect that.  We all have holes in our knowledge

Yeah... I remember when you were unable to hook your computer up to the 
essentially plug 'n play Linksys router... or when you posted all that erroneous 
crap about the workings of Windows and refused to admit you were wrong when no 
less than 12 people proved it for you... or you bogus lies on your comparison 
website that have been challenged by Windows and Mac users alike. Of course, 
Wally isn't claiming to be an "IT teacher" and pretending to have a business 
helping people with their computers.

-- 
"Apple is pushing how green this is - but it [Macbook Air] is 
clearly disposable... when the battery dies you can pretty much 
just throw it away". - Snit
0
trollkiller (3346)
8/25/2008 4:33:48 PM
In article 
<teadams$2$0$0$3-68E9A8.18253623082008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net>,
 Tim Adams <teadams$2$0$0$3@earthlink.net> wrote:

> In article <C4D6572C.3491%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally 
> <Wally@wally.world.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> > On 23/8/08 9:16 PM, in article C4D55BD9.D1CF4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com,
> > "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > 
> > <snip>
> > 
> > > Your creative snipping does not change the fact that MuahMan was 
> > > *clearly*
> > > in reference to deleting files (or folders) from the desktop.  His 
> > > context
> > > was clear.
> > > 
> > 
> > By him stating "Delete doesn't actually delete in OS X." he broadened the
> > scope of his comments to encompass OS X not just "files in the finder" he
> > therefore broadened the context that his comments could be viewed in.
> 
> Did you really think that michael glasser could follow a thread? The title 
> itself should be clear enough but then theirs the poor prescott computer guy.
> A couple of months ago john tried to add a graphic card to a MacBook Pro and 
> michael jumped in and claimed the use of the word 'macs' 'changed the topic' 
> from the MacBook Pro to _all Macs_. Now michael glasser is trying to claim 
> the 
> failure to mention _deleting files_ in the topic limited the topic to that 
> one 
> case only. Can anybody say hypocrite, or is the term idiot more appropriate?

Notably, it's the "could be" (as in "his comments could be viewed in") part that 
Snit *always* has trouble with;)

Due to the way Pratt worded his post, Wally's point is obviously valid... but 
Snit will adhere to his singular viewpoint while disallowing other valid 
viewpoints. As we are all extremely aware, this is part of Snit's MO... he likes 
to pretend he is the arbiter of all things. That he tries this where language is 
concerned is where comedy lives;)

-- 
"Apple is pushing how green this is - but it [Macbook Air] is 
clearly disposable... when the battery dies you can pretty much 
just throw it away". - Snit
0
trollkiller (3346)
8/25/2008 5:03:31 PM
In article <C4D8AC7B.3564%Wally@wally.world.net>, Wally <Wally@wally.world.net> 
wrote:

> On 24/8/08 10:26 PM, in article
> f4ae75ea-d7da-41c0-a9c7-763292061226@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "MuahMan"
> <muahman@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Aug 24, 1:54�am, Wally <Wa...@wally.world.net> wrote:
> >> On 24/8/08 2:06 AM, in article 
> >> C4D59FC3.D1F20%use...@gallopinginsanity.com,
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> "Snit" <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >>> "MuahMan" <muah...@gmail.com> stated in post
> >>> 4623cdc6-660b-4459-9f23-7f6d09e34...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com on 
> >>> 8/23/08
> >>> 11:04 AM:
> >> 
> >>>> On Aug 23, 12:16�pm, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
> >>>>> nospamatall wrote:
> >>>>>> Mayor Of R'lyeh wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Aug 22, 7:24 pm, nospamatall <nospamat...@iol.ie> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> MuahMan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 12:12 am, Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> 
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Actually it depends on which Delete key you hit. For some reason 
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> Backspace key is also called Delete on a Mac keyboard. Of course 
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> Enter key is also labeled Return. Its as if Apple thought 
> >>>>>>>>>> typewriters
> >>>>>>>>>> were still a popular machine that needed to be emulated in order 
> >>>>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>>> the public to understand how to work a keyboard.
> >>>>>>>>> Wait. So on a Mac keyboard. There are two keys labeled "delete" but
> >>>>>>>>> they differently?
> >>>>>>>>> LOL, wow. No wonder OS X is banished from the workplace.
> >>>>>>>>> Could Apple make their OS more unintuitive if they tried? Doubtful.
> >>>>>>>> It's amazing how far from reality you can drift in just two 
> >>>>>>>> exchanges
> >>>>>>>> between two wintrolls!
> >> 
> >>>>>>> Unable to counter �with actual facts nospamatall hurls invectives.
> >> 
> >>>>>> Fact is there are not 2 keys labeled delete, so the first premise was
> >>>>>> bollocks, and second one, which was based off the first, was thus also
> >>>>>> bollocks. I pointed out how amazing it is when 2 wintrolls stray from
> >>>>>> reality into their fantasy land, that is not invective. Maybe you 
> >>>>>> should
> >>>>>> look big words up before you use them.
> >> 
> >>>>>> Andy
> >> 
> >>>>> There *are* two keys labeled delete on my aluminum keyboard.
> >> 
> >>>>> Steve- Hide quoted text -
> >> 
> >>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >> 
> >>>> Ditto. Why would they lie about his. I'm looking right at two Delete
> >>>> keys. LOL
> >> 
> >>> Well, Sandman at least had a non-US keyboard, so I can understand his
> >>> denial... but Tim Adams just got confused by the "arrow" symbol... he 
> >>> could
> >>> not figure out that it was also called "delete" and was even labeled as
> >>> such!
> >> 
> >> "On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'"-Tim 
> >> Adams
> >> 
> >> Shows no sign of confusion Snit, where did you get that impression from?
> >> 
> >> Are you saying that Tim is incorrect?- Hide quoted text -
> >> 
> >> - Show quoted text -
> > 
> > Wally you are doing an amazing job of playing stupid. You are playing
> > right?
> 
> I'll take a chance and assume that you are able to absorb two facts in a
> very short space of time MuahMan...
> 
> Tim did not say that both keys were not labeled Delete! He said that they
> were not *only* labeled Delete!
 

Big words like "only" obviously confuse people like Snit and Pratt;)

-- 
"Apple is pushing how green this is - but it [Macbook Air] is 
clearly disposable... when the battery dies you can pretty much 
just throw it away". - Snit
0
trollkiller (3346)
8/25/2008 5:15:30 PM
In article <C4D6C1D8.D20E0%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>,
 Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "MuahMan" <muahman@gmail.com> stated in post
> f4ae75ea-d7da-41c0-a9c7-763292061226@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com on 8/24/08
> 7:26 AM:
> 
> ...
> >> "On my aluminum keyboard they are not both only labeled 'Delete'"-Tim Adams
> >> 
> >> Shows no sign of confusion Snit, where did you get that impression from?
> >> 
> >> Are you saying that Tim is incorrect?- Hide quoted text -
> >> 
> >> - Show quoted text -
> > 
> > Wally you are doing an amazing job of playing stupid. You are playing
> > right?
> 
> The entire text from the post in question:

....has nothing to do with Tim having used the word "only". Poor Snit... context 
bit him on the ass again;)

-- 
"Apple is pushing how green this is - but it [Macbook Air] is 
clearly disposable... when the battery dies you can pretty much 
just throw it away". - Snit
0
trollkiller (3346)
8/25/2008 5:17:29 PM
Reply:

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Deleting a balanced tag groups from HTML
I can't seem to find an html-mode command for deleting a 'balanced tag group' (which extends from an opening tag through its corresponding closing tag) that C-c C-f and C-c C-b allow one to skip across. The function sgml-delete-tag (C-C C-d) doesn't work (it doesn't delete what's _between_ the tags and sometimes doesn't work, period) Neither kill-sentence (M-k) nor kill-paragraph delete the right thing. Surely this has been created before and is commonly needed. If I want a function that, e.g. will delete from <tr> to </tr>, inclusively, given the snippet below, do I need to roll my own function, and if I do, should I submit it as a patch? to sgml-mode.el? Googling hasn't helped so far, but I have noticed I'm using an old version - GNU Emacs 22.0.97.1 ... perhaps I should be trying a less ancient version of emacs? I tried web-mode; it won't compile, but C-c ed. I tried nxhtml-mode (AKA nXML) it doesn't have this. Just before posting this, I found almost the right code for what I want at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4785444/delete-contents-of-an-html-tag-in-emacs but I thought I'd post anyway - will need a tweak and submission...? snippet: .... <tr> <th id="cell60"> <b>ALABAMA</b><sup><b>8</b></sup></th> &l...

How can I delete the LDB file...? It didn't delete itself because a remote user didn't do a proper shutdown.
If this is a dumb question, bear in mind I am new to MDB. A customer has approx 6 computers (win9x) connected together. One win98 computer has some shared folders on it's C drive which everyone can access. They call it the server and no one sits at that station. I installed an application on 4 computers and I placed its MDB file on the "server". Whenever I go there, I notice that I can't delete the LDB file, even when everyone shuts down their application and computer. The LDB file appears to contain names of various users. I suspect that they are just turning off their...

Can't delete IE cookies in OS X?
I can;t seem to be able to delete IE cookies in OS 10.3. I do the Preferences -> Cookies -> select all and delete, but when I restart IE the same cookies are still there. There must be a known way to take care of that? Permissions? TIA Didier -- Didier A Depireux ddepi001@umaryland.edu didier@isr.umd.edu 685 W.Baltimore Str http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off) University of Maryland -1273 (lab) Baltimore MD 21201 USA ...

app doesn't run on all OS X macs
I wrote an app that runs fine on my new powerbook. It also runs fine on some other new powerbooks and the silver G4 towers. However it does not run on two of the older powerbooks that we have. The app just doesn't run. When you double click it you see an outline of a window spread out from it but nothing happens. Does anyone know anything that could cause this? I am new to OS X. I come from a windows and linux background. After figuring out the bundle structure and now this, linux seems more like windows than OS X in the way programs are run. Thanks for any help. Eric <emedlin@clemson.edu> wrote: > I wrote an app that runs fine on my new powerbook. It also runs fine > on some other new powerbooks and the silver G4 towers. However it > does not run on two of the older powerbooks that we have. The app > just doesn't run. When you double click it you see an outline of a > window spread out from it but nothing happens. Does anyone know > anything that could cause this? I am new to OS X. I come from a > windows and linux background. After figuring out the bundle structure > and now this, linux seems more like windows than OS X in the way > programs are run. Thanks for any help. Perhaps you've linked against a library or used a feature that requires a newer system; the older powerbooks have an older system and don't support those features. But that's just a guess. Just look at the Co...

Need to delete a partition fdisk doesn't understand w/o deleting whole drive
Hi. I have win98 on my primary partition. I want to delete my extended partition. fdisk sees no logical partitions on it, but when I try to delete it, tells me it can't because it contains logical partitions. I have done some research and understand now that this is because that partition is ntfs or something similar that fdisk doesn't understand, as a result of the fact that I used the partitioning tool included in my linux distribution (which I don't currently have available) to set up the partitions. I want to delete the extended partition anyway, but I understand there is no w...

GLUT doesn't render initially on Mac OS X
I am running Mac OS X 10.2.8, and I've written a very simple GLUT application that simple set the background color to black. When I run the program the window comes up with a white background. If minimize the window (send it to the dock) and the restore it the background color changes to black as it should be. What do I need to do to get the window the draw the first time when it is created. This is the source code I wrote: #include <OpenGL/gl.h> #include <OpenGL/glu.h> #include <GLUT/glut.h> namespace{ void Display(); void Reshape(int nWidth, int nHeight); void D...

Cincoom Smalltalk doesn't install on Mac OS X
Hi * I've just tried to do a "net installation" of Cincom Smalltalk on Mac OS X (Tiger) / Intel and it doesn't install, does it? Anyone experience a similar problem? Cheers. Joe Nada ...

Booting from non-Mac OS X disc doesn't
I'll try this here first, before I wander over into comp.sys.linux land... I've got a retired TiBook that I'd like to set up with Leopard and Linux. The Leopard (or Tiger) part is no problem. Booting from a Linux (for Apple PPC) Live CD, or installer CD/DVD has proven to be out of reach. The machine happily boots any bootable Mac CD/DVD just fine. A Ubuntu 9.04 for PowerPC Live CD isn't seen as a bootable volume. Nor is a Yellowdog Linux 6.2 DVD. (Their checksums are correct, etc.) Not by System Preferences:Startup Disk, not by holding down C during boot, not from Ope...

It doesn't look good for Mac OS X users...
"Tigers are one of the Earth's fastest disappearing species." http://www.theinsite.org/earth/earth_es_tiger.html "All leopard subspecies are either endangered or threatened." http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-leopard.html In article <e8c40c40-efbc-477d-bf91-0d065d69a56b@y43g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, Edwin <thorne25@juno.com> wrote: > "Tigers are one of the Earth's fastest disappearing species." > > http://www.theinsite.org/earth/earth_es_tiger.html > > "All leopard subspecies are either endangered or threatened." > > http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-leopard.html Yup. Edwin's thrashing pattern repeats again! Whenever he's getting trounced, start posting "jokes" to show us all how this forum isn't very serious for him. LOL In article <e8c40c40-efbc-477d-bf91-0d065d69a56b@y43g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, Edwin <thorne25@juno.com> wrote: > "Tigers are one of the Earth's fastest disappearing species." > > http://www.theinsite.org/earth/earth_es_tiger.html > > "All leopard subspecies are either endangered or threatened." > > http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-leopard.html What do real tigers and leopards have to do with Mac advocacy? Or is mentioning them the only pussy you can get? -- Posted from my 1999 Apple G4 Sawtooth A 450 MHz G4 running OS X 10.4.11 "Alan Baker&quo...

folder won't delete Mac OS 10.2
A user has created a folder on the server that I cannot delete. I'm not sure who created it but it looks like someone copied their desktop folder from Mac OS9 and tried to delete it but was only able to delete the contents. I've since tried to delete the folder, with no luck. I've tried changing ownership, option delete. Does anyone else have a solution. In article <1154548729.138830.121790@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, "Speilman_54" <mbednar@gmail.com> wrote: > A user has created a folder on the server that I cannot delete. I'm > not sure ...

Install Mac OS X
Hello, Sorry bothering you with such a trivial problem. I installed python on a new mac at office. It seems everything is fine: in the console, I access to python. But I just can't start Idle. It seems to open but closes immediately (it appears in the dock and closes immediately). It is also impossible to open any .py file. I am sure some of you have a good idea of what to do (path,...). Thanks in advance Dominique Dominique wrote: > Hello, > > Sorry bothering you with such a trivial problem. > > I installed python on a new mac at office. > It seems everything is ...

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