I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to figure
out what the best graphics program would be to buy.  I mainly want to be able
to create and edit bitmapped graphics -- especially photogrphs -- and save them
in any of the formats that will work on a webaite, but I'm also interested in
creating vector graphics.  I understand CorelDraw can combine bitmap and vector
graphics, but can it save a file in GIF, JPG, or PNG format.  I also hear
people talk about PaintShop and PhotoShop.

While we're about it, are there any drawing/paining programs included as part
of the Mac OS X package?

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:43:57 -0500, DhDowning wrote
(in article <20040616224357.29660.00000072@mb-m16.aol.com>):

> I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to figure 
> out what the best graphics program would be to buy........

Photoshop CS

-- James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft

DhDowning:
> I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to figure
> ... I mainly want to be able to create and edit bitmapped graphics
> -- especially photogrphs -- and save them in any of the formats that will
> work on a webaite...

There is, by definition, only one "best." It's Adobe Photoshop CS. It
deserves its position as the pre-eminent bitmap graphics program.

> , but I'm also interested in creating vector graphics.  I understand
> CorelDraw can combine bitmap and vector graphics...

CorelDraw isn't in the running if you're looking for the "best" in this
area as well. But the answer in vector graphcs is not as easy as it is
in bitmap editing, where Photoshop has no competition. There are three
professional-level vector graphics applications: Adobe Illustrator,
ACD's (aka Deneba's) Canvas, and Macromedia Freehand. Comparisons and
arguments as to which is best abound on the Web. I have all three
programs, and I like them all for different things -- though I use
Canvas more than the others. None is perfect. I believe that
downloadable trials are available for some or all of them.

> While we're about it, are there any drawing/paining programs included as part
> of the Mac OS X package?

No. AppeWorks (ships with consumer-level Macs) includes a limited
vector drawing capability, and I believe that one of your install disks
may contain an elementary drawing program of some sort. Not what you
are looking for.

Davoud

-- 
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

In article <20040616224357.29660.00000072@mb-m16.aol.com>, DhDowning
<dhdowning@aol.com> wrote:

> I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to
> figure out what the best graphics program would be to buy.  I mainly
> want to be able to create and edit bitmapped graphics -- especially
> photogrphs -- and save them in any of the formats that will work on a
> webaite, but I'm also interested in creating vector graphics.  I
> understand CorelDraw can combine bitmap and vector graphics, but can
> it save a file in GIF, JPG, or PNG format.  I also hear people talk
> about PaintShop and PhotoShop.
> 
Photoshop CS -- head and shoulders above the competition (and with a
price tag to match). Another app, ImageReady, comes in the package with
it that caters to Web graphics.

What a lot of people forget when talking about Photoshop is that it has
had a fairly decent suite of vector graphic tools built into for the
past few versions. Not in the same league as Illustrator or Freehand,
but (at least i.m.o.) superior to what's in CorelDraw.

> While we're about it, are there any drawing/paining programs included as part
> of the Mac OS X package?

Not worth mentioning (basic "example" drawing program included in
Developer Tools), AppleWorks is bundled on "consumer Macs" (eMac, iMac,
iBook), and OmniGraffle is bundled on "Pro" Macs (some have had
GraphicConverter bundled as well).

-- 
Spenser

In article <20040616224357.29660.00000072@mb-m16.aol.com>,
 dhdowning@aol.com (DhDowning) wrote:

> I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to figure
> out what the best graphics program would be to buy.  I mainly want to be able
> to create and edit bitmapped graphics -- especially photogrphs -- and save 
> them
> in any of the formats that will work on a webaite, but I'm also interested in
> creating vector graphics.  I understand CorelDraw can combine bitmap and 
> vector
> graphics, but can it save a file in GIF, JPG, or PNG format.  I also hear
> people talk about PaintShop and PhotoShop.
> 
> While we're about it, are there any drawing/paining programs included as part
> of the Mac OS X package?

Adding to what others have said:
OmniGraffle for diagrams (trial version available)
GIMP, the free (GPL) Photoshop replacement (search for gimp.app, 
requires X, which is installed by default in Panther).

HTH

Marc

-- 
Marc Heusser
(remove the obvious: CHEERS and MERICAL...until end to reply via email)

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:09:28 -0700, Davoud wrote
(in article <160620042309286649%star@sky.net>):

> DhDowning:
>> I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to 
>> figure
>> ... I mainly want to be able to create and edit bitmapped graphics
>> -- especially photogrphs -- and save them in any of the formats that will
>> work on a webaite...
> 
> There is, by definition, only one "best." It's Adobe Photoshop CS. It
> deserves its position as the pre-eminent bitmap graphics program.
> 
>> , but I'm also interested in creating vector graphics.  I understand
>> CorelDraw can combine bitmap and vector graphics...
> 
> CorelDraw isn't in the running if you're looking for the "best" in this
> area as well. But the answer in vector graphcs is not as easy as it is
> in bitmap editing, where Photoshop has no competition. There are three
> professional-level vector graphics applications: Adobe Illustrator,
> ACD's (aka Deneba's) Canvas, and Macromedia Freehand. Comparisons and
> arguments as to which is best abound on the Web. I have all three
> programs, and I like them all for different things -- though I use
> Canvas more than the others. None is perfect. I believe that
> downloadable trials are available for some or all of them.
> 
>> While we're about it, are there any drawing/paining programs included as 
>> part
>> of the Mac OS X package?
> 
> No. AppeWorks (ships with consumer-level Macs) includes a limited
> vector drawing capability, and I believe that one of your install disks
> may contain an elementary drawing program of some sort. Not what you
> are looking for.
> 
> Davoud
> 
> 

My Powerbook came with Graphic Converter. It looks to be OK for touching 
up photos.

DhDowning <dhdowning@aol.com> wrote:

> I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to
> figure out what the best graphics program would be to buy.  I mainly want
> to be able to create and edit bitmapped graphics -- especially photogrphs
> -- and save them in any of the formats that will work on a webaite, but
> I'm also interested in creating vector graphics.  I understand CorelDraw
> can combine bitmap and vector graphics, but can it save a file in GIF,
> JPG, or PNG format.  I also hear people talk about PaintShop and
> PhotoShop.

Folks say Photoshop is the one to get, and that's fine if you don't need
to pay rent for a month, but there's also GraphicConverter, which is
cheap, stable, and really, really flexible. It can also use PS plugins.

That said, GIMP is quite good and worth checking out even if you later
decide to get GC or PS (since GIMP is free).

in article 1gfht0w.c9wmip10e9kcgN%usenet@mile23.c0m, Paul Mitchum at
usenet@mile23.c0m wrote on 6/16/04 9:41 PM:

> DhDowning <dhdowning@aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to
>> figure out what the best graphics program would be to buy.  I mainly want
>> to be able to create and edit bitmapped graphics -- especially photogrphs
>> -- and save them in any of the formats that will work on a webaite, but
>> I'm also interested in creating vector graphics.  I understand CorelDraw
>> can combine bitmap and vector graphics, but can it save a file in GIF,
>> JPG, or PNG format.  I also hear people talk about PaintShop and
>> PhotoShop.
> 
> Folks say Photoshop is the one to get, and that's fine if you don't need
> to pay rent for a month, but there's also GraphicConverter, which is
> cheap, stable, and really, really flexible. It can also use PS plugins.
> 
> That said, GIMP is quite good and worth checking out even if you later
> decide to get GC or PS (since GIMP is free).

GraphicConverter is (was) shareware, great for losing color information
(shrinking file size), import/export file types, general touchups.
Cheap, limited-scale copy of PhotoShop is Color It (not sure if available
for X) also shareware, and which supports plugins and has excellent drawing
tools.

catchmerevisited <catchmerevisited2004@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Cheap, limited-scale copy of PhotoShop is Color It (not sure if available
> for X) also shareware, and which supports plugins and has excellent drawing
> tools.

Nope, there's never been an OS X version of Color It, but another
inexpensive alternative to Photoshop is Photoshop Elements, which is a
carbon app and runs natively in OS X.

-- 
Mike Rosenberg
<http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
<http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
Toyota Prius fans: Check out alt.autos.toyota.prius

In article <1gfilj8.1v98n51oobfwgN%mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid>,
 mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid (Mike Rosenberg) wrote:

> catchmerevisited <catchmerevisited2004@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Cheap, limited-scale copy of PhotoShop is Color It (not sure if available
> > for X) also shareware, and which supports plugins and has excellent drawing
> > tools.
> 
> Nope, there's never been an OS X version of Color It, but another
> inexpensive alternative to Photoshop is Photoshop Elements, which is a
> carbon app and runs natively in OS X.

Every once in a while I ask MicroFrontier, and they keep saying there's 
a Carbon version in the works....

sigh.

G

-- 
Standard output is like your butt. Everyone has one. When using a bathroom,
they all default to going into a toilet. However, a person can redirect his
"standard output" to somewhere else, if he so chooses.  - Jeremy Nixon

>I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to figure
>out what the best graphics program would be to buy.

The best program, hands-down, is Photoshop. It's the sandard in image editing
applications, and has capabilities that far surpass anything else on the
market--compared to Photoshop, programs like Corel Photo-Paint and the like are
toys.

It also has a price tag to match, and it sounds like the odds are good you
won't use or need all of its capabilities. Still if you want the best, there's
no question--Photoshop is the best.

>I understand CorelDraw can combine bitmap and vector
>graphics, but can it save a file in GIF, JPG, or PNG format. 

Yes.

>I also hear
>people talk about PaintShop and PhotoShop.

Paint Shop is a Windows program. Photoshop is the standard, but costs more than
double what the Corel suite costs.

-- 
Biohazard? Radiation hazard? SO last-century.
Nanohazard T-shirts now available! http://www.villaintees.com
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

a) bitmap editing:

best, costly, far more efficient and more modern than photoshop:
Photoretouch pro, unless you are obliged to exchange photoshop files
with professionals (and even in this case...) Just see the animated
demos on their site -PRP allows the same work than PS 10 times faster.
PS indeed has 100 times more users but don't believe the old guys -it's
the only thing it has.

cheapest (free) but now discontinued: TiffAny3 for instance (there are
many others, search for "bitmap edit" on Macupdate.com).
GraphicConverter (shareware, cheap) may be a reasonable compromise, not
the best interface (just open its preference panel...) but far more
exhaustive than for instance Apple's iPhoto. Opens and saves to *any*
existing format. Best image database handling, good slideshow capacity,
honest retouch functions.


b) vector editing:

simplest, modern, efficient: Intaglio (one of the rare ones, for
instance, where you can paste a vectorial pdf and then "ungroup" it and
reedit, vectorially, all its elements). There are a couple of others you
can find by searching "vector edit" in Macupdate


c) if what you want is both: you get complicated but mature softwares
like Canvas, which is both a vector-editing software and an almost
complete photoshop, with the added value that you can for instance
define vectorial shapes that when layered onto bitmap images will apply
any bitmap filtering process, in a reversible way (just push the "filter
element" aside, the underlying image is untouched). You pay this
however: Canvas is relatively costly, and slower that separate bitmap or
vector editors.

Herv�

P. S. another resource to search, les known and -IMHO- more efficiently
sorted than Macupdate while still daily updated:
http://osx.hyperjeff.net/Apps/
just click on "graphics" for instance (814 applications described in
this category this evening ;-)

-- 
Fr�d�rique & Herv� Sainct, h.sainct@laposte.net
Fr�d�rique's initial is missing in front of the above address
l'initiale de Fr�d�rique manque devant l'adresse email ci-dessus

Tacit wrote:

>>I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to figure
>>out what the best graphics program would be to buy.
> 
> 
> The best program, hands-down, is Photoshop. It's the sandard in image editing
> applications, and has capabilities that far surpass anything else on the
> market--compared to Photoshop, programs like Corel Photo-Paint and the like are
> toys.
> 
For years I was intimidated by Photoshop's reputation as a Pro app, far 
too complicated for me. I had tried trial versions from time to time, 
and didn't like it much. Recently, I gave another try at the CS version 
(on Panther) and it is fabulous. The RAW plug-in works very well for me, 
and it alone is worth the price of admission*, and runs 5 times faster 
than Canon's software on a now creaky Dual 500....

There's a trial for 30 days at Adobe's site, totally functional, and 
hundreds of free tutorials here and there if you dig a bit.

[* I have become a student again, so it's not cheap, but also not a killer.]

--
John McWilliams

Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in 
the country.
-- Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, D.C.

DhDowning <dhdowning@aol.com> wrote:
> I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to figure
> out what the best graphics program would be to buy.  I mainly want to be able
> to create and edit bitmapped graphics -- especially photogrphs -- and save them
> in any of the formats that will work on a webaite, but I'm also interested in
> creating vector graphics.  I understand CorelDraw can combine bitmap and vector
> graphics, but can it save a file in GIF, JPG, or PNG format.  I also hear
> people talk about PaintShop and PhotoShop.
> 
> While we're about it, are there any drawing/paining programs included as part
> of the Mac OS X package?

Best for me, Photoshop Elements. Great price and all the functionality I need.

In article <cat8li0fqg@news2.newsguy.com>, Terry <terry@nomail.com> 
wrote:

> DhDowning <dhdowning@aol.com> wrote:
> > I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying 
> > to figure out what the best graphics program would be to buy.  I 
> > mainly want to be able to create and edit bitmapped graphics -- 
> > especially photogrphs -- and save them in any of the formats that 
> > will work on a webaite, but I'm also interested in creating vector 
> > graphics.  I understand CorelDraw can combine bitmap and vector 
> > graphics, but can it save a file in GIF, JPG, or PNG format.  I 
> > also hear people talk about PaintShop and PhotoShop.
> > 
> > While we're about it, are there any drawing/paining programs 
> > included as part of the Mac OS X package?
> 
> Best for me, Photoshop Elements. Great price and all the functionality I 
> need.

As a graphics amateur, fully agree that Photoshop Elements is an 
excellent, learnable, highly capable app  >>>but for bitmap graphics 
only<<<.

If you want vector graphics also, you have to add Illustrator.

In article <siegman-78F635.16594617062004@news.stanford.edu>,
AES/newspost <siegman@stanford.edu> wrote:

> 
> As a graphics amateur, fully agree that Photoshop Elements is an 
> excellent, learnable, highly capable app  >>>but for bitmap graphics 
> only<<<.
> 
> If you want vector graphics also, you have to add Illustrator.

or go to the full version of Photoshop. PS CS has a pretty fair arsenal
of vector tools, though it doesn't compete with Illustrator's massive
armory.

-- 
Spenser

In article <20040616224357.29660.00000072@mb-m16.aol.com>,
 dhdowning@aol.com (DhDowning) wrote:

> I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying to figure
> out what the best graphics program would be to buy.  I mainly want to be able
> to create and edit bitmapped graphics -- especially photogrphs -- and save 
> them
> in any of the formats that will work on a webaite, but I'm also interested in
> creating vector graphics.  I understand CorelDraw can combine bitmap and 
> vector
> graphics, but can it save a file in GIF, JPG, or PNG format.  I also hear
> people talk about PaintShop and PhotoShop.

Canvas can do all those things. I recommend it highly. It used to be my 
only graphics application back in the early 1990's (version 3.5). For 
various reasons, I stopped using it, but recently returned to it in its 
latest version (version 9.0), and it's still a really good all-purpose 
graphics application.

-- 
Orac        |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
            |
            |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
            | inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <siegman-78F635.16594617062004@news.stanford.edu>,
 AES/newspost <siegman@stanford.edu> wrote:

> In article <cat8li0fqg@news2.newsguy.com>, Terry <terry@nomail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> > DhDowning <dhdowning@aol.com> wrote:
> > > I just got a new G4 PowerBook running OS X Panther, and I'm trying 
> > > to figure out what the best graphics program would be to buy.  I 
> > > mainly want to be able to create and edit bitmapped graphics -- 
> > > especially photogrphs -- and save them in any of the formats that 
> > > will work on a webaite, but I'm also interested in creating vector 
> > > graphics.  I understand CorelDraw can combine bitmap and vector 
> > > graphics, but can it save a file in GIF, JPG, or PNG format.  I 
> > > also hear people talk about PaintShop and PhotoShop.
> > > 
> > > While we're about it, are there any drawing/paining programs 
> > > included as part of the Mac OS X package?
> > 
> > Best for me, Photoshop Elements. Great price and all the functionality I 
> > need.
> 
> As a graphics amateur, fully agree that Photoshop Elements is an 
> excellent, learnable, highly capable app  >>>but for bitmap graphics 
> only<<<.
> 
> If you want vector graphics also, you have to add Illustrator.

Or use Canvas instead....

-- 
Orac        |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
            |
            |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
            | inconvenience me with questions?"

Tacit <tacitr@aol.com> wrote:

> It allows SOME of the same work, about as fast, actually.

I maintain, for most of the work I do with PS I did have a quite long
and detailed opportunity to verify -even with  my poor learning curve-
it will need 10 times less work with PRP.

I don't intend to answer point by point but when I read you mention
"brush geometry" I can't but remember with PRP one changes tool size
*without releasing the mouse* for instance... No palette needed, no
cursor... and all this while applying, with a brush, any filter effect,
locally...

Sincerely, to the non-PS user I *do* recommand giving PRP a try. The PS
way then cannot but look dinosauresque. To many PS users I fear PRP just
cannot be understood...

My only despair is, PRP is too costly for me :-)

Herv�

-- 
Fr�d�rique & Herv� Sainct, h.sainct@laposte.net
Fr�d�rique's initial is missing in front of the above address
l'initiale de Fr�d�rique manque devant l'adresse email ci-dessus

On 2004-06-17 20:18:24 -0400, sbt <dogbreath@chaseabone.com.invalid> said:

> In article <siegman-78F635.16594617062004@news.stanford.edu>,
> AES/newspost <siegman@stanford.edu> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> As a graphics amateur, fully agree that Photoshop Elements is an 
>> excellent, learnable, highly capable app  >>>but for bitmap graphics 
>> only<<<.
>> 
>> If you want vector graphics also, you have to add Illustrator.
> 
> or go to the full version of Photoshop. PS CS has a pretty fair arsenal
> of vector tools, though it doesn't compete with Illustrator's massive
> armory.

Another possibility would be to use Expression, which used to be 
marketed by Fractal Design. It's a vector drawing program with bitmappy 
expressivity, if that makes any sense. I suppose Fractal Design thought 
it a good match for their 'natural media' approach from Painter.

I believe there's a free beta that can be downloaded. It's now somehow 
connected to
Microsoft, I think.

Being a prerelease, of course, it's bound to be a little risky. On the 
other hand, it's
a lot cheaper than Illustrator or Photoshop CS.

Jonathan Hendry <jonhendry_blah@blahearthlink.net> wrote:

> >> As a graphics amateur, fully agree that Photoshop Elements is an 
> >> excellent, learnable, highly capable app  >>>but for bitmap graphics
> >> only<<<.
> >> 
> >> If you want vector graphics also, you have to add Illustrator.
> > 
> > or go to the full version of Photoshop. PS CS has a pretty fair arsenal
> > of vector tools, though it doesn't compete with Illustrator's massive
> > armory.
> 
> Another possibility would be to use Expression, which used to be 
> marketed by Fractal Design. It's a vector drawing program with bitmappy
> expressivity, if that makes any sense. I suppose Fractal Design thought
> it a good match for their 'natural media' approach from Painter.

Take a look at Canvas. Currently at version 9, but 7 is around as a
freebie. All in one app...

<http://www.canvas9.com/>

-- 
Have fun, Hermie

September 15,1996