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iTunes -- Grouping not working as expected

I have 12.5.3.17.  Some of my classical works use "grouping" with the 
idea that they will play in their entirety, except they don't.  It may 
be the way I am trying to play them.

I use a smart playlist that randomly selects tunes from my library and 
plays them.  This is fine for single tunes but not so good for a 
symphony.  A number of years ago somebody suggested grouping to get 
around that and I thought it was working, but somewhere along the line 
it stopped.

Is there currently a way to get an entire work to play?

The album view provides a checkbox to "Use work and movement."  Is that 
the way it is done now?  I'm reluctant to play around with it until I 
know what it does and Google leads me to believe it may mess up some of 
my detail information!

However, even if this is the way to go, I probably have 12-15,000 
"tunes" in my library.  It took a long time to set up grouping on the 
classical works.  Is there some automatic way to correct it?
0
Robert
12/2/2016 8:49:57 PM
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On 2016-12-02 20:49:57 +0000, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> said:

> I have 12.5.3.17.  Some of my classical works use "grouping" with the 
> idea that they will play in their entirety, except they don't.  It may 
> be the way I am trying to play them.

It is.

> I use a smart playlist that randomly selects tunes from my library and 
> plays them.  This is fine for single tunes but not so good for a 
> symphony.  A number of years ago somebody suggested grouping to get 
> around that and I thought it was working, but somewhere along the line 
> it stopped.
> 
> Is there currently a way to get an entire work to play?

Yes. Don't include it in a Smart Playlist with random play.

> The album view provides a checkbox to "Use work and movement."  Is that 
> the way it is done now?  I'm reluctant to play around with it until I 
> know what it does and Google leads me to believe it may mess up some of 
> my detail information!

"Use work and movement" can be set in info for full classical albums, 
but it is not essential, and if the data is not imbedded you will have 
to enter it manually.
For full classical works to be played in full they should not be 
included in smart playlists for random play, but be selected from 
Artist or Album, or be in their own specific playlist.

Also when checking the info for an album/work, or full group of 
movements, make sure in "Options" that "Skip when shuffling" is checked.
<https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_318.jpg>
<https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_317.jpg>
<https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_319.jpg>
<https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_323.jpg>
<https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_324.jpg>
> 
> However, even if this is the way to go, I probably have 12-15,000 
> "tunes" in my library.  It took a long time to set up grouping on the 
> classical works.  Is there some automatic way to correct it?

That should keep you busy.


-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

0
Savageduck
12/2/2016 10:00:56 PM
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On Friday, 02 December 2016 14:00 -0800, 
 in article <2016120214005674515-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>, 
 Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> On 2016-12-02 20:49:57 +0000, 
>  Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> said:

>> I have 12.5.3.17.  Some of my classical works use "grouping" with 
>> the idea that they will play in their entirety, except they don't.  
>> It may be the way I am trying to play them.

> It is.

>> I use a smart playlist that randomly selects tunes from my library 
>> and plays them.  This is fine for single tunes but not so good for 
>> a symphony.  A number of years ago somebody suggested grouping to 
>> get around that and I thought it was working, but somewhere along 
>> the line it stopped.

>> Is there currently a way to get an entire work to play?

> Yes. Don't include it in a Smart Playlist with random play.

Robert might be happier, were he to simply use the shuffle by 
Groupings option, under the Controls=>Shuffle=>Groupings.

The randomization of the 'Smart' Playlist may be where he's going 
astray.  Were he to create a "Classical" Smart Playlist and select 
that, this should play multi-movement works along side stand-alone 
works, without the issues he's experiencing.

- -- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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0
David
12/3/2016 1:19:05 AM
On 12/2/16 5:00 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> Yes. Don't include it in a Smart Playlist with random play.

The problem is that I want classical works to be played with jazz, pop, 
rock, etc., but I want the whole work to play.  I have some jazz, show 
and rock pieces of the same type that I also would like to play in their 
entirety.  Excluding them misses the point.

When I am trying to do some "serious" listening I will select a specific 
album or work but when I am just sitting at my desk following up to a 
Usenet posting I like a broad variety of "background" music.

It may be that is no longer possible.

0
Robert
12/3/2016 2:31:03 PM
On 12/2/16 8:19 PM, David Ritz wrote:
> Robert might be happier, were he to simply use the shuffle by
> Groupings option, under the Controls=>Shuffle=>Groupings.

That may work.  Thanks.  I am testing it and it did pick up the next 
movement of a work.  After the work was finished it randomly skipped to 
another tune that is not grouped and another ungrouped tune after that.
>
> The randomization of the 'Smart' Playlist may be where he's going
> astray.  Were he to create a "Classical" Smart Playlist and select
> that, this should play multi-movement works along side stand-alone
> works, without the issues he's experiencing.

After implementing your idea this seems to work fine as well.  Stay tuned!

0
Robert
12/3/2016 2:43:28 PM
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On Saturday, 03 December 2016 09:43 -0500, 
 in article <o1ulmh$a8i$1@gioia.aioe.org>, 
 Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> On 12/2/16 8:19 PM, David Ritz wrote:

>> Robert might be happier, were he to simply use the shuffle by 
>> Groupings option, under the Controls=>Shuffle=>Groupings.

> That may work.  Thanks.  I am testing it and it did pick up the next 
> movement of a work.  After the work was finished it randomly skipped 
> to another tune that is not grouped and another ungrouped tune after 
> that.

>> The randomization of the 'Smart' Playlist may be where he's going 
>> astray.  Were he to create a "Classical" Smart Playlist and select 
>> that, this should play multi-movement works along side stand-alone 
>> works, without the issues he's experiencing.

> After implementing your idea this seems to work fine as well.  Stay 
> tuned!

When I'd doing anything more that specifically listening to music, I 
can shuffle my entire library by groupings.  Most of the time, I use a 
Smart Playlist, consisting of items which have not been played within 
the past six months, to give me greater listening variety.

- -- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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David
12/3/2016 2:55:26 PM
On 12/3/16 9:55 AM, David Ritz wrote:
> When I'd doing anything more that specifically listening to music, I
> can shuffle my entire library by groupings.  Most of the time, I use a
> Smart Playlist, consisting of items which have not been played within
> the past six months, to give me greater listening variety.

It seems to be working fine.  I had one situation where I thought it had 
failed but it was the track title.  When I checked the grouping it was 
correct.

For random playing I select tunes I haven't listened to before, less 
than one play.  If I ever exhaust that I will reset it to 2.  However, I 
still have a couple hundred LPs to get in so I may not live long enough!

0
Robert
12/3/2016 3:02:57 PM
On 12/2/16 8:19 PM, David Ritz wrote:
> Robert might be happier, were he to simply use the shuffle by
> Groupings option, under the Controls=>Shuffle=>Groupings.

You know, it occurs to me I must have set this when I originally did 
groupings.  Is it possible/probable that an iTunes update reset it?
  If so, it is something I will need to watch on future updates.
0
Robert
12/3/2016 4:58:21 PM
On Sat, 3 Dec 2016 16:58:21 UTC, Robert Peirce 
<bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> On 12/2/16 8:19 PM, David Ritz wrote:
> > Robert might be happier, were he to simply use the shuffle by
> > Groupings option, under the Controls=>Shuffle=>Groupings.
> 
> You know, it occurs to me I must have set this when I originally did 
> groupings.  Is it possible/probable that an iTunes update reset it?
>   If so, it is something I will need to watch on future updates.

The music players in iPod and iPad ignore groupings. They randomize 
by "songs" or nothing.

-- 
John Varela
0
John
12/3/2016 10:43:36 PM
On 2016-12-03 17:43, John Varela wrote:

> The music players in iPod and iPad ignore groupings. They randomize
> by "songs" or nothing.

Which blows for the coupling "Load Out"/"Stay" on my "Easy-Road" list.

For that matter, with the latest iTunes on the Mac can't even get 
grouping to work at all - period.

-- 
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
   -Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.
0
Alan
12/3/2016 11:22:56 PM
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On Saturday, 03 December 2016 22:43 -0000, 
 in article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-SrdqLeW1GXPu@localhost>, 
 John Varela <newlamps@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 3 Dec 2016 16:58:21 UTC, Robert Peirce 
> <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

>> On 12/2/16 8:19 PM, David Ritz wrote:

>>> Robert might be happier, were he to simply use the shuffle by
>>> Groupings option, under the Controls=>Shuffle=>Groupings.

>> You know, it occurs to me I must have set this when I originally did 
>> groupings.  Is it possible/probable that an iTunes update reset it?
>>   If so, it is something I will need to watch on future updates.

> The music players in iPod and iPad ignore groupings. They randomize 
> by "songs" or nothing.

While it's more fitting for an iOS group, I've had good luck with 
Smart Shuffle, which shuffles albums, rather than tracks.
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/smart-shuffle-album-shuffle/id342320176?mt=8>

I had less success with SmartPlaylist, which is supposed to be able to 
use groupings.
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/smartplaylist/id326071802?mt=8>

- -- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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David
12/3/2016 11:24:14 PM
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