f



Suddenly cannot send mail through mail.app via gmail

I have been set up with gmail.com and using mail.app to access it when I
am at my home computer.  When I moved from Tiger to Leopard, I noticed
that posting, as measured by the rotating symbol duration, increased in
time by maybe three times as much, but it still worked.

I was able to send until about 10 am today, and then it stopped.  Had to
do my mail through Safari, which I hate.  I updated from 10.5.3 to
10.5.4 at about 1 pm, but the problem started well before then and it
didn't help.  The inbox is working fine and my dsl seems to be working
as well as it ever does.  I have not messed with any of my settings
except to turn their new lab stuff off, at their help suggestion.

Any ideas?  I really hate to use a browser to send mail.

TIA

-- 
Never believe anything until it's officially denied.
0
paulfuchs
7/1/2008 6:54:02 PM
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Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:

> I was able to send until about 10 am today, and then it stopped.  Had to
> do my mail through Safari, which I hate.  I updated from 10.5.3 to
> 10.5.4 at about 1 pm, but the problem started well before then and it
> didn't help.  The inbox is working fine and my dsl seems to be working
> as well as it ever does.  I have not messed with any of my settings
> except to turn their new lab stuff off, at their help suggestion.
> 
> Any ideas?  I really hate to use a browser to send mail.

Check your outgoing (SMTP) server settings to make sure they're correct:

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=13287

If they're already correct, you can try deleting and reentering them.
Alternatively, you can use your ISP's SMTP server instead.

-- 
I kill Google Groups posts. See http://improve-usenet.org for details.
<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts
<http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers
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0
mikePOST
7/1/2008 9:35:01 PM
Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:

> I have been set up with gmail.com and using mail.app to access it when I
> am at my home computer.  When I moved from Tiger to Leopard, I noticed
> that posting, as measured by the rotating symbol duration, increased in
> time by maybe three times as much, but it still worked.
> 
> I was able to send until about 10 am today, and then it stopped.  Had to
> do my mail through Safari, which I hate.  I updated from 10.5.3 to
> 10.5.4 at about 1 pm, but the problem started well before then and it
> didn't help.  The inbox is working fine and my dsl seems to be working
> as well as it ever does.  I have not messed with any of my settings
> except to turn their new lab stuff off, at their help suggestion.
> 
> Any ideas?  I really hate to use a browser to send mail.
> 
> TIA

Trying to dig into the problem a little deeper, I get this from gmail:

"Third party applications and Gmail

Using third party software applications that interact with Gmail
directly violates the Terms of Use that all users must agree to before
creating a Gmail address. Google does not endorse any third party
applications meant to interact with Gmail, and we will not provide
support for them."

Do you think they consider mail.app a third party software?  When I
signed up with them a couple of years ago, they posted instructions on
how to set mail.app up with gmail.
-- 
Never believe anything until it's officially denied.
0
paulfuchs
7/1/2008 9:43:07 PM
Mike Rosenberg <mikePOST@TOGROUPmacconsult.com> wrote:

> Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
> 
> > I was able to send until about 10 am today, and then it stopped.  Had to
> > do my mail through Safari, which I hate.  I updated from 10.5.3 to
> > 10.5.4 at about 1 pm, but the problem started well before then and it
> > didn't help.  The inbox is working fine and my dsl seems to be working
> > as well as it ever does.  I have not messed with any of my settings
> > except to turn their new lab stuff off, at their help suggestion.
> > 
> > Any ideas?  I really hate to use a browser to send mail.
> 
> Check your outgoing (SMTP) server settings to make sure they're correct:
> 
> http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=13287
> 
> If they're already correct, you can try deleting and reentering them.
> Alternatively, you can use your ISP's SMTP server instead.

Thanks Mike.  Started working again properly about 5:30 PM.  Must have
been some sort of internal Google/Gmail fart that they corrected.

When I travel in Latin America I have to use the GMail browser
interface.  It is better than any other I have seen.  And I'm too busy
cussing out Windows to cuss out GMail. Good thing that most of my
neighbors can't understand that type of English.  But when I am forced
to use it on my own machine, it just brings home how sucky any browser
mail interface is. 
-- 
Never believe anything until it's officially denied.
0
paulfuchs
7/1/2008 9:53:57 PM
In article <1ijenhe.1wer71zmtc62oN%paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink>,
 paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink (Paul Fuchs) wrote:

> Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
> 
> > I have been set up with gmail.com and using mail.app to access it when I
> > am at my home computer.  When I moved from Tiger to Leopard, I noticed
> > that posting, as measured by the rotating symbol duration, increased in
> > time by maybe three times as much, but it still worked.
> > 
> > I was able to send until about 10 am today, and then it stopped.  Had to
> > do my mail through Safari, which I hate.  I updated from 10.5.3 to
> > 10.5.4 at about 1 pm, but the problem started well before then and it
> > didn't help.  The inbox is working fine and my dsl seems to be working
> > as well as it ever does.  I have not messed with any of my settings
> > except to turn their new lab stuff off, at their help suggestion.
> > 
> > Any ideas?  I really hate to use a browser to send mail.
> > 
> > TIA
> 
> Trying to dig into the problem a little deeper, I get this from gmail:
> 
> "Third party applications and Gmail
> 
> Using third party software applications that interact with Gmail
> directly violates the Terms of Use that all users must agree to before
> creating a Gmail address. Google does not endorse any third party
> applications meant to interact with Gmail, and we will not provide
> support for them."
> 
> Do you think they consider mail.app a third party software?  When I
> signed up with them a couple of years ago, they posted instructions on
> how to set mail.app up with gmail.

Use your ISP's outgoing mail server.  Unless it's AT&T or Comcast, it's 
also less likely to get caught in a spam filter.  ( I don't accept any 
GMail )

-- 
I will not see your reply if you use Google.
0
Kevin
7/1/2008 9:55:35 PM
Kevin McMurtrie:
> ( I don't accept any GMail )

> -- 
> I will not see your reply if you use Google.

?? It's amazing what nonsense some people subscribe to. What's with
Google -- pronounced backwards it is "Satan" or something?

Satan or not, I began using my GMail account when David Pogue reported
how to have Google integrate all of my other e-mail addresses and
funnel everything to my iPhone. Why do that? Because the iPhone has no
filtering and GMail has excellent filtering. I see no junk mail on my
iPhone. And, Mr. Fuchs' problem notwithstanding, I have found GMail to
be extremely reliable. More so than my Verizon account, more so than
..Mac.

Davoud

-- 
Don't re-elect the past. Vote for the future: Obama in 2008!

usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
0
Davoud
7/1/2008 10:33:25 PM
In article <1ijenhe.1wer71zmtc62oN%paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink>,
 paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink (Paul Fuchs) wrote:

> Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
> 
> > I have been set up with gmail.com and using mail.app to access it when I
> > am at my home computer.  When I moved from Tiger to Leopard, I noticed
> > that posting, as measured by the rotating symbol duration, increased in
> > time by maybe three times as much, but it still worked.
> > 
> > I was able to send until about 10 am today, and then it stopped.  Had to
> > do my mail through Safari, which I hate.  I updated from 10.5.3 to
> > 10.5.4 at about 1 pm, but the problem started well before then and it
> > didn't help.  The inbox is working fine and my dsl seems to be working
> > as well as it ever does.  I have not messed with any of my settings
> > except to turn their new lab stuff off, at their help suggestion.
> > 
> > Any ideas?  I really hate to use a browser to send mail.
> > 
> > TIA
> 
> Trying to dig into the problem a little deeper, I get this from gmail:
> 
> "Third party applications and Gmail
> 
> Using third party software applications that interact with Gmail
> directly violates the Terms of Use that all users must agree to before
> creating a Gmail address. Google does not endorse any third party
> applications meant to interact with Gmail, and we will not provide
> support for them."
> 
> Do you think they consider mail.app a third party software?  When I
> signed up with them a couple of years ago, they posted instructions on
> how to set mail.app up with gmail.

I don't understand what you got from Gmail.  The "Settings" link takes 
you to a page where you can set up either POP or IMAP services and that 
page contains links to instructions for several mail clients.

-- 
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint =  5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3  7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF
0
Tom
7/2/2008 1:04:55 AM
Tom Stiller <tomstiller@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I don't understand what you got from Gmail.  The "Settings" link takes
> you to a page where you can set up either POP or IMAP services and that
> page contains links to instructions for several mail clients.

Besides, the only point in having POP and IMAP services is for using a
mail client instead of the web interface.
 
-- 
I kill Google Groups posts. See http://improve-usenet.org for details.
<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts
<http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers
<http://designsbymike.net/shop/greet.cgi> Holiday cards with attitude
0
mikePOST
7/2/2008 1:20:00 AM
On 2008-07-01, Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
> I was able to send until about 10 am today, and then it stopped.  Had to
> do my mail through Safari, which I hate.  I updated from 10.5.3 to
> 10.5.4 at about 1 pm, but the problem started well before then and it
> didn't help.  The inbox is working fine and my dsl seems to be working
> as well as it ever does.  I have not messed with any of my settings
> except to turn their new lab stuff off, at their help suggestion.
>
> Any ideas?  I really hate to use a browser to send mail.

Only thing that came to mind is perhaps your ISP is blocking outgoing
connection attempts on port 25?  In that case, the OS upgrades would
just be a red herring, and the timing just coincidental.

Typically if your ISP is blocking outgoing port 25 connections, the
solution is to enable SSL or TLS and use ports 587 or 465, respectively.

I'd give all three port combinations (25, 465, 587) a try, and see if
one of them magically starts working where the others don't.

If you want to eliminate Mail.app as a source of the problem, you can
test SMTP AUTH connections using the Terminal and OpenSSL:
   <http://qmail.jms1.net/test-auth.shtml>
(I /think/ that will work out of the box on OS X, although it's hard
for me to say; I've installed so much junk on my machine, I can't keep
it straight anymore...)

I use GMail and Mail.app for my personal email and I connect to
Google's SMTP on 587 with SSL -- or at least what Mail.app claims is
SSL, it may be TLS -- and have never run into much trouble with ISP
blocks, even when traveling.

I think Google's server is flaky sometimes ... but hey, you get what
you pay for. I keep my ISP's SMTP server configured in Mail.app as a
backup; if I can't get through to Google's momentarily, I'll just pick
my ISP's server from the error dialog and that's typically the end of
that.

(As to why I don't use my ISP's server exclusively, or as a first
choice: most of the people I send email to are GMail users as well, so
it cuts several minutes off the transmission time of a message, in
some cases, if I use Google's SMTP rather than my ISP's.)

-Kadin.
0
Kadin2048
7/2/2008 3:58:28 AM
Kadin2048 <Kadin@address.invalid> wrote:

> On 2008-07-01, Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
> > I was able to send until about 10 am today, and then it stopped.  Had to
> > do my mail through Safari, which I hate.  I updated from 10.5.3 to
> > 10.5.4 at about 1 pm, but the problem started well before then and it
> > didn't help.  The inbox is working fine and my dsl seems to be working
> > as well as it ever does.  I have not messed with any of my settings
> > except to turn their new lab stuff off, at their help suggestion.
> >
> > Any ideas?  I really hate to use a browser to send mail.
> 
> Only thing that came to mind is perhaps your ISP is blocking outgoing
> connection attempts on port 25?  In that case, the OS upgrades would
> just be a red herring, and the timing just coincidental.
> 
> Typically if your ISP is blocking outgoing port 25 connections, the
> solution is to enable SSL or TLS and use ports 587 or 465, respectively.
> 
> I'd give all three port combinations (25, 465, 587) a try, and see if
> one of them magically starts working where the others don't.
> 
> If you want to eliminate Mail.app as a source of the problem, you can
> test SMTP AUTH connections using the Terminal and OpenSSL:
>    <http://qmail.jms1.net/test-auth.shtml>
> (I /think/ that will work out of the box on OS X, although it's hard
> for me to say; I've installed so much junk on my machine, I can't keep
> it straight anymore...)
> 
> I use GMail and Mail.app for my personal email and I connect to
> Google's SMTP on 587 with SSL -- or at least what Mail.app claims is
> SSL, it may be TLS -- and have never run into much trouble with ISP
> blocks, even when traveling.
> 
> I think Google's server is flaky sometimes ... but hey, you get what
> you pay for. I keep my ISP's SMTP server configured in Mail.app as a
> backup; if I can't get through to Google's momentarily, I'll just pick
> my ISP's server from the error dialog and that's typically the end of
> that.
> 
> (As to why I don't use my ISP's server exclusively, or as a first
> choice: most of the people I send email to are GMail users as well, so
> it cuts several minutes off the transmission time of a message, in
> some cases, if I use Google's SMTP rather than my ISP's.)
> 
> -Kadin.

Thanks, Kadin.

My port was set to 995 with SSL on.  How it got there I can't remember,
but it had been working well for several years.  As I mentioned (on
another sub-thread), my outgoing resumed functioning properly in the
late afternoon, and now went dead again about 9 am.  I tried your
sugestion with the other ports including 25 with SSL on and off, but the
only change was I lost my pop in as well, so I have reverted to port
995.  My ISP is among the worser in the world, so I am beginning to
suspect them.  There is no telling the kind of mayhem and incompetence
they can create.  However, any BB alternative would cost me $100/mo and
up, so I put up with them.


-- 
Never believe anything until it's officially denied.
0
paulfuchs
7/2/2008 2:19:40 PM
In article <010720081833250217%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> 
wrote:

> Kevin McMurtrie:
> > ( I don't accept any GMail )
> 
> > -- 
> > I will not see your reply if you use Google.
> 
> ?? It's amazing what nonsense some people subscribe to. What's with
> Google -- pronounced backwards it is "Satan" or something?
> 
> Satan or not, I began using my GMail account when David Pogue reported
> how to have Google integrate all of my other e-mail addresses and
> funnel everything to my iPhone. Why do that? Because the iPhone has no
> filtering and GMail has excellent filtering. I see no junk mail on my
> iPhone. And, Mr. Fuchs' problem notwithstanding, I have found GMail to
> be extremely reliable. More so than my Verizon account, more so than
> .Mac.
> 
> Davoud

It's a personal choice, IMO.  I don't share it but I think you have a 
sense of how a random user who's on a not-well-managed ISP feels when 
their email to someone is rejected because the receiver's ISP refuses to 
accept email from known spammers (e.g. they're using a block list).  The 
FLAMES that show up on the SPAMCOP forum from such people are 
priceless--all cartoony and indignant.  Mostly because the only help 
these people can offer is "don't use an ISP that hosts spammers".  In 
your case, don't use Gmail to send to Kevin.  He filters it and will 
never see it.

When the shop owner tells you "Get out.  I don't serve Jews!", you can 
organize a protest with the local synagogue on their sidewalk, complain 
to the city government to get their business permit pulled, offer their 
customers $20 each to go patronize another store down the street, and/or 
just take your business elsewhere.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically by ignored]


0
Michael
7/2/2008 8:08:49 PM
"Davoud" <star@sky.net> wrote in message 
news:010720081833250217%star@sky.net...
>
> Satan or not, I began using my GMail account when David Pogue reported
> how to have Google integrate all of my other e-mail addresses and
> funnel everything to my iPhone. Why do that? Because the iPhone has no
> filtering and GMail has excellent filtering. I see no junk mail on my
> iPhone. And, Mr. Fuchs' problem notwithstanding, I have found GMail to
> be extremely reliable. More so than my Verizon account, more so than
> .Mac.
>


My wife and I both use our ISP and gmail for mail -- but in opposite ways! 
We have her Mac set up so it uses the ISP as its SMTP out-bound server, but 
she receives her mail from gmail using mail.app and its POP interface. 
(This account and ISP is very old and we didn't want to bother to confuse 
things by getting a second mailbox.)    I use the ISP for my incoming 
mailbox, but I use gmail as the SMTP out-bound server, because the ISP will 
only accept SMTP traffic from IP addresses it owns which doesn't work on the 
road, but it will let you connect to the POP mailbox (password 
authenticated) remotely.   I'd say gmail has slightly better filtering than 
the ISP (but it's pretty good -- the only thing it's been letting through 
lately are some of the mail-delivery-failure messages occasioned by spam, 
and it seems to be learning those.)   In general both seem equally and 
highly reliable -- my main complaint lately has been with some problems with 
the DSL connection itself, which has nothing to do with either, and I 
suspect is water getting into the phone line.

-- 
Ted Lee
Minnetonka, MN 


0
Ted
7/2/2008 8:36:14 PM
Ted Lee <TMPLee@MR.Net> wrote:

> "Davoud" <star@sky.net> wrote in message 
> news:010720081833250217%star@sky.net...
> >
> > Satan or not, I began using my GMail account when David Pogue reported
> > how to have Google integrate all of my other e-mail addresses and
> > funnel everything to my iPhone. Why do that? Because the iPhone has no
> > filtering and GMail has excellent filtering. I see no junk mail on my
> > iPhone. And, Mr. Fuchs' problem notwithstanding, I have found GMail to
> > be extremely reliable. More so than my Verizon account, more so than
> > .Mac.
> >
> 
> 
> My wife and I both use our ISP and gmail for mail -- but in opposite ways!
> We have her Mac set up so it uses the ISP as its SMTP out-bound server, but
> she receives her mail from gmail using mail.app and its POP interface.
> (This account and ISP is very old and we didn't want to bother to confuse
> things by getting a second mailbox.)    I use the ISP for my incoming
> mailbox, but I use gmail as the SMTP out-bound server, because the ISP will
> only accept SMTP traffic from IP addresses it owns which doesn't work on the
> road, but it will let you connect to the POP mailbox (password 
> authenticated) remotely.   I'd say gmail has slightly better filtering than
> the ISP (but it's pretty good -- the only thing it's been letting through
> lately are some of the mail-delivery-failure messages occasioned by spam,
> and it seems to be learning those.)   In general both seem equally and
> highly reliable -- my main complaint lately has been with some problems with
> the DSL connection itself, which has nothing to do with either, and I
> suspect is water getting into the phone line.

Thanks, Ted.  I had the same problem today.  It seems to be restricted
to standard business hours, i.e. 9-5.  Never had this problem for the
last two years during which I have beeen set up this way.  I have the
worst ISP outside of Zimbabwe, and I am now convinced that it is related
to these morons.  If it continues, I may try to talk to them, but I
expect them to just drool :-(

-- 
Never believe anything until it's officially denied.
0
paulfuchs
7/3/2008 3:51:03 AM
In article <010720081833250217%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> 
wrote:

> Kevin McMurtrie:
> > ( I don't accept any GMail )
> 
> > -- 
> > I will not see your reply if you use Google.
> 
> ?? It's amazing what nonsense some people subscribe to. What's with
> Google -- pronounced backwards it is "Satan" or something?

The blocking started with the hundreds of daily spams to 
rec.photo.digital from Google Groups and the dozens of daily spams to my 
e-mail address from GMail.  It was going on for a couple of years and it 
probably still is now.

The Satan part comes from Google refusing all abuse complaints by e-mail 
or phone.  For a while they even sent an auto-reply saying that they did 
not read spam complaints because they could not be used for spamming.  
That's evil.  The only other ISP that does that is Microsoft.


> Satan or not, I began using my GMail account when David Pogue reported
> how to have Google integrate all of my other e-mail addresses and
> funnel everything to my iPhone. Why do that? Because the iPhone has no
> filtering and GMail has excellent filtering. I see no junk mail on my
> iPhone. And, Mr. Fuchs' problem notwithstanding, I have found GMail to
> be extremely reliable. More so than my Verizon account, more so than
> .Mac.
> 
> Davoud

-- 
I will not see your reply if you use Google.
0
Kevin
7/4/2008 3:13:34 AM
Reply: