f



What newsgroup app for the Mac?

I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
app that doesn't work.

Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?

0
dwerner (39)
5/14/2007 1:38:41 AM
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In article <1179106721.096258.274880@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
 One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> wrote:

> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
> app that doesn't work.
> 
> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?


MT-Newswatcher

-- 
m-m
0
M
5/14/2007 1:44:09 AM
On 2007-05-13 20:38:41 -0500, One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> said:

> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
> app that doesn't work.
> 
> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?

I love Unison:

	<http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/13984/unison>

Before Unison, I used MT-NewsWatcher for years and years:

	<http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/7174/mt-newswatcher-x>

Both are great Usenet clients, IMO.

-- 
JR

0
Jolly
5/14/2007 2:00:24 AM
On Sun, 13 May 2007 20:38:41 -0500, One4All wrote
(in article <1179106721.096258.274880@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>):

> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
> app that doesn't work.
> 
> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?
> 

Start with

http://www.newsreaders.com/mac/clients.html

Yeah, the Hog!

-- 

Tim
lance_1012@hotmail.com

0
Tim
5/14/2007 2:08:03 AM
In article <1179106721.096258.274880@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
 One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> wrote:

> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
> app that doesn't work.
> 
> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?


news.individual.net costs about $10-12 for a year's subscription.  Used 
to be free until it became too well known.  It's in Germany.  I used it 
for years -- free and for 8 Euro annually.
-- 
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller - blahblahblog - Orange Honey
Garlic Chicken, 3-29-2007
jamlady.eboard.com
http:/http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/amytaylor/
0
Melba
5/14/2007 2:21:01 AM
In article <1179106721.096258.274880@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
 One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> wrote:

> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
> app that doesn't work.
> 
> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?


Ack!  Sorry -- I had newsservers on the brain, not a newsreader.  I use 
Newswatcher. 
-- 
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller - blahblahblog - Orange Honey
Garlic Chicken, 3-29-2007
jamlady.eboard.com
http:/http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/amytaylor/
0
Melba
5/14/2007 2:22:29 AM
On May 13, 7:38 pm, One4All <dwer...@bresnan.net> wrote:
> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
> app that doesn't work.
>
> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?

Thanks to all for your advice. I'm trying to work with MT-NewsWatcher,
but find it complex &, for me, intimidating. I've burned up most of
today just getting it to work & now that it is, it throws up all these
articles when all I want to do is find a particular area, by date, of
some posts I did. The Date & Time column on far right is ridiculous.

Know what? I'm spoiled by Google's GUI & ease of use. I'll admit it.
This other world of newsreaders, news servers, etc., is foreign to me,
but I guess if the only way I can get posts into that particular
newsgroup is by an independent newsreader app, then I have to go into
one more learning curve. After all, I've waded thru iPhoto, iMovie,
QuickTime Pro, etc., not to mention Photoshop.

If I don't want to spend any more time with MT-Newswatcher, I'll
consider some of the other apps you've recommended. Thank you, all,
again. BTW, Google is doing ok for this group. :-)

0
One4All
5/14/2007 3:09:57 AM
One4All wrote:
> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
> app that doesn't work.
> 
> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?
> 

Thunderbird.  Easiest to get started with and has the most intuitive 
interface.

Greg

-- 
The ticketbastard Tax Tracker:
http://www.ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html

Dethink to survive - Mclusky
0
G
5/14/2007 3:28:48 AM
One4All wrote:
> On May 13, 7:38 pm, One4All <dwer...@bresnan.net> wrote:
>> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
>> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
>> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
>> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
>> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
>> app that doesn't work.
>>
>> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
>> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?
> 
> Thanks to all for your advice. I'm trying to work with MT-NewsWatcher,
> but find it complex &, for me, intimidating. 

Just use Thunderbird and you'll be productive in a minute.

Greg

-- 
The ticketbastard Tax Tracker:
http://www.ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html

Dethink to survive - Mclusky
0
G
5/14/2007 3:29:31 AM
Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article <1179106721.096258.274880@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
>  One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> wrote:
> 
>> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
>> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
>> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
>> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
>> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
>> app that doesn't work.
>>
>> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
>> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?
> 
> 
> Ack!  Sorry -- I had newsservers on the brain, not a newsreader.  I use 
> Newswatcher. 

Yeah, the way it started out I thought the same thing, I barely noticed 
the "app" in the subject.

Greg

-- 
The ticketbastard Tax Tracker:
http://www.ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html

Dethink to survive - Mclusky
0
G
5/14/2007 3:30:10 AM
In article 
<1179112197.286240.186600@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
 One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> wrote:

> On May 13, 7:38 pm, One4All <dwer...@bresnan.net> wrote:
> > I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
> > problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
> > advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
> > app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
> > have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
> > app that doesn't work.
> >
> > Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
> > newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?
> 
> Thanks to all for your advice. I'm trying to work with MT-NewsWatcher,
> but find it complex &, for me, intimidating. I've burned up most of
> today just getting it to work & now that it is, it throws up all these
> articles when all I want to do is find a particular area, by date, of
> some posts I did. The Date & Time column on far right is ridiculous.
> 
> Know what? I'm spoiled by Google's GUI & ease of use. I'll admit it.
> This other world of newsreaders, news servers, etc., is foreign to me,
> but I guess if the only way I can get posts into that particular
> newsgroup is by an independent newsreader app, then I have to go into
> one more learning curve. After all, I've waded thru iPhoto, iMovie,
> QuickTime Pro, etc., not to mention Photoshop.
> 
> If I don't want to spend any more time with MT-Newswatcher, I'll
> consider some of the other apps you've recommended. Thank you, all,
> again. BTW, Google is doing ok for this group. :-)

MT takes a bit of getting used to, but it is pretty good after 
that. Its big strentgh in a way is that you don't have all the 
baggage of past posts in front of you, it is an online reader and 
though you can save articles and search for others, it is a tidy 
beast. Mark everything as read to begin with and only new posts 
will come in and be very limited.

-- 
dorayme
0
dorayme
5/14/2007 3:37:44 AM
On Sun, 13 May 2007 20:38:41 -0500, One4All wrote (in article 
<1179106721.096258.274880@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>): 

> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into 
> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been 
> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that app 
> relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't have 
> success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another app that 
> doesn't work. 
> 
> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free, 
> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google? 

This "best newreader" question comes up at least once a week, if not more 
frequently and is always responded to with a bunch of  "I use....." replies. 
Like many things there is no overall best but that which best matches an 
individuals preferences.

My suggestion is to research newsreaders, give each a try and then decide.

-- 
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@mac.com

0
TaliesinSoft
5/14/2007 3:40:27 AM
TaliesinSoft wrote:

> My suggestion is to research newsreaders, give each a try and then
> decide.

I would agree with this suggestion as well.  I'm still using XanaNews
in Parallels until I decide which of the Mac ones I like.

So far Thunderbird is probably the easiest to use.  It doesn't do much
for newsgroup filtering (even with 2.0) but 1.5 lets you easily tack in
Face and X-Face headers, see previous postings (since it's an offline
reader), and just have fun in general with newsgroups.

After that I'd have to say I probably like Hogwasher a lot.  I've found
a couple of problems that the author is looking into and will hopefully
have fixed by his next update.

But since I'm *used* to Xananews - I keep going back over to it.

-- 
The System Has Failed
0
MegaDave
5/14/2007 3:57:46 AM
On May 13, 8:08 pm, Tim Lance <see....@bottom.com> wrote:
> Start with
>
> http://www.newsreaders.com/mac/clients.html
>
> Yeah, the Hog!
>
Tim, thanks. I've got Panther & Hog requires Tiger.

David

0
One4All
5/14/2007 5:22:15 AM
On May 13, 9:30 pm, "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > Ack!  Sorry -- I had newsservers on the brain, not a newsreader.  I use
> > Newswatcher.
>
> Yeah, the way it started out I thought the same thing, I barely noticed
> the "app" in the subject.
>
Sorry about that. I should have said newsreader app. Thanks, anyway.

David

0
One4All
5/14/2007 5:26:00 AM
On May 13, 9:37 pm, dorayme <doraymeRidT...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> In article
> <1179112197.286240.186...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> you don't have all the
> baggage of past posts in front of you,

I guess that's where the difficulty for me lies. It looks like
Newswatcher organizes by topics, but only in a (for me) narrow time
frame (most recent). What I like about Google Groups is, you can start
at the beginning of a topic, regardless of how long ago it was, to get
a sense of what started the discussion. That's just me.




0
One4All
5/14/2007 5:33:58 AM
On May 13, 9:40 pm, TaliesinSoft <taliesins...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> My suggestion is to research newsreaders, give each a try and then decide.
>
That, I will do. Thanks.

0
One4All
5/14/2007 5:35:26 AM
On May 13, 8:00 pm, Jolly Roger <jollyro...@R.E.M.O.V.E.pobox.com>
wrote:
>
> I love Unison:
>
>         <http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/13984/unison>
>
I'm going to give Unison a try. Thanks.

0
One4All
5/14/2007 5:38:54 AM
On May 13, 9:29 pm, "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
> Just use Thunderbird and you'll be productive in a minute.
>
> Greg
>
I'm going to try Tbird. Thanks.

0
One4All
5/14/2007 5:41:04 AM
In article <1179106721.096258.274880@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
 One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> wrote:

[...]

> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?

<http://newsreaders.com/>.

Note that the headers of each message usually tell what app it was 
posted with. So you could just pick the posters that you feel have 
something valuable to add to these groups, and assume that the app they 
use is probably worth a try.

You could also do a search for "best newsreader" and get thousands of 
(more or less useful) answers -- we have this thread in comp.sys.mac.* 
just about every week it seems...

-- 
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/>

Mac user: "Macs only have 40 viruses, tops!"
PC user: "SEE! Not even the virus writers support Macs!"
0
Sander
5/14/2007 6:21:32 AM
On Sun, 13 May 2007 21:00:24 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article <2007051321002420738-jollyroger@REMOVEpoboxcom>):

> On 2007-05-13 20:38:41 -0500, One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> said:
> 
>> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
>> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
>> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
>> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
>> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
>> app that doesn't work.
>> 
>> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
>> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?
> 
> I love Unison:
> 
> 	<http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/13984/unison>
> 
> Before Unison, I used MT-NewsWatcher for years and years:
> 
> 	<http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/7174/mt-newswatcher-x>
> 
> Both are great Usenet clients, IMO.
> 
> 

Too bad. While Unison is very possibly the future, it has been stuck at v1.x 
for years. I'm hoping it moves on now that Panic has released (and presumably 
has some time) their "big new app" Coda. Unison does have a pretty face and I 
admit to falling under it's spell for a time.

MT-Newswatcher is free and is very developed. Are you big on the use of 
filters? Unison's filtering is weak. Do you do a lot of binaries downloading? 
This is Unison's strength but you need to stay frequent with your groups or 
the way it handles its internal database of headers can put you to sleep, and 
even then it's tedious. Uploading? MT-NW does not do yEnc (down is fine) and 
Unison's posting is relatively new and features sparse. most serious binaries 
posters use Thoth (at any given moment not available - LONG story).

-- 

Tim
lance_1012@hotmail.com

0
Tim
5/14/2007 10:44:33 AM
On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:57:46 -0500, MegaDave wrote
(in article <BvSdnfI4dpqnQ9rbnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com>):

> TaliesinSoft wrote:
> 
>> My suggestion is to research newsreaders, give each a try and then
>> decide.
> 
> I would agree with this suggestion as well.  I'm still using XanaNews
> in Parallels until I decide which of the Mac ones I like.
> 
> So far Thunderbird is probably the easiest to use.  It doesn't do much
> for newsgroup filtering (even with 2.0) but 1.5 lets you easily tack in
> Face and X-Face headers, see previous postings (since it's an offline
> reader), and just have fun in general with newsgroups.
> 
> After that I'd have to say I probably like Hogwasher a lot.  I've found
> a couple of problems that the author is looking into and will hopefully
> have fixed by his next update.
> 
> But since I'm *used* to Xananews - I keep going back over to it.
> 
> 

Out of curiosity, what problems with HW? BTW, has he (KS) mentioned the v5 
revision?

-- 

Tim
lance_1012@hotmail.com

0
Tim
5/14/2007 10:47:34 AM
Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2007-05-13 20:38:41 -0500, One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> said:
>> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into=

>> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
>> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
>> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
>> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
>> app that doesn't work.
>>
>> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
>> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?
>=20
> I love Unison:
> <http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/13984/unison>
>=20
> Before Unison, I used MT-NewsWatcher for years and years:
> <http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/7174/mt-newswatcher-x>
>=20
> Both are great Usenet clients, IMO.

=2E..And to this I can add
Hogwasher 4.3 (shareware) because it has a better implementation of=20
nonUS and non-ASCII characters like the special German, Scandinavian and =

Centraleuropean characters.
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/1993

=2E..And of course also the mail & news part of the combined browsers lik=
e
SeaMonkey 1.1.1 (freeware)
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/29027
Mozilla 1.7.13 (freeware)
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/9472
WaMCom X 1.3.1 (freeware)
http://wamcom.org/

The advantages of using a combined app is of course that you only have=20
to run _1_ program for both browsing, mail and news.... Regarding the=20
WaMCom, I'll have to say that though it's rather old, it runs like a=20
dream on both OS X 10.2.x, 10.3.x and 10.4.x Intels/PPCs doesn't matter. =

And - there are multiple versions for both Windows, Mac (also OS 9.x)=20
and various Linux systems. All versions are _100%_ identical in the=20
features and look, so no matter what system you're using, they can be=20
setup identical...

=2E..And of course
Mozilla Thunderbird 2.0 (freeware)
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20359

cheers, Erik Richard

--=20
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Rgds. Gr=FC=DFe, Mvh. Erik Richard S=F8rensen, Member of ADC
  <mac-man_NOSP@M_stofanet.dk>  <http://www.nisus.com>
  NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Textprocessing
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
0
ISO
5/14/2007 2:12:33 PM
In article <1179120838.096164.81020@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
 One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> wrote:

[snip]

> [...] It looks like Newswatcher organizes by topics, but only in a 
> (for me) narrow time frame (most recent). What I like about Google 
> Groups is, you can start at the beginning of a topic, regardless of 
> how long ago it was, to get a sense of what started the discussion. 

(I am using MT-NewsWatcher 3.5.2)

You can certainly used 'Command -' ('Special->Search News...') to search 
some group(s) you've selected which should allow you to see the 
beginning of the thread, even if you have read it before, subject to the 
expiry/retention time on the newsswerver.

If you are already reading partway through a thread, you can still use 
'Special->Open All References' to bring up the history leading up to 
that point. As MT-NewsWatcher works as an online newsreader it can allow 
you to be much more selective over how much you read and need to 
download/store locally but also allow you to pick up references as 
easily as reading a 'new' article.

But you need to find the usenet reader that works best for you and fits 
in with your way of reading news with least unnecessary hassle.
-- 
Andy Wingate <URL:http://www.sparse.net>
I'm not nearly as think as you confused I am.
0
Andrew
5/14/2007 3:45:25 PM
On May 14, 5:44 am, Tim Lance <see....@bottom.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 May 2007 21:00:24 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
> (in article <2007051321002420738-jollyroger@REMOVEpoboxcom>):
>
> > I love Unison:
>
> >    <http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/13984/unison>
>
> > Before Unison, I used MT-NewsWatcher for years and years:
>
> >    <http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/7174/mt-newswatcher-x>
>
> > Both are great Usenet clients, IMO.
>
> Too bad. While Unison is very possibly the future, it has been stuck at v1.x
> for years. I'm hoping it moves on now that Panic has released (and presumably
> has some time) their "big new app" Coda. Unison does have a pretty face and I
> admit to falling under it's spell for a time.

I'm not sure what version numbers have to do with anything. Yes, Panic
is a small company, but that has advantages - for instance, they can
nimbly add new features to Unison in a very fast manner.

Panic has been actively communicating with me ever since I started
using Unison full-time recently, and I've seen them already in the
last release implement one of my suggestions (they added functionality
to honor Followup-To headers). That's just the tip of the iceburg in
terms of all the features and functionality I've been requesting from
them, and the majority of the features I have requested, they have
already agreed to implement in future revisions.

Unison is a fairly young application, with lots of room to go. But I
see a lot of promise in it, and for light use, it's a fine Usenet
client.  Remember the OP is looking for something more basic than MT-
NewsWatcher.

> MT-Newswatcher is free and is very developed.

Yep - it is also packed with features and options, which means it's a
great suit for Usenet power users.

> Are you big on the use of filters? Unison's filtering is weak.

Unison's filtering is basic, but not that bad really. You can use
regular expressions in the filters. I'd like to see more expansion in
terms of actions applied to filters and so on, but, again, Panic has
been extremely open to suggestions in my experience. If you feel Panic
should improve Unison's filtering in certain ways, contact them about
it - or let me know and I'll pass it on.

> Do you do a lot of binaries downloading? This is Unison's strength but you
> need to stay frequent with your groups or the way it handles its internal
> database of headers can put you to sleep, and even then it's tedious.
> Uploading? MT-NW does not do yEnc (down is fine) and
> Unison's posting is relatively new and features sparse. most serious binaries
> posters use Thoth (at any given moment not available - LONG story).

I don't download or upload much, so I can't really comment about that
part of Unison.

0
Jolly
5/14/2007 6:27:06 PM
On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:12:33 +0200, Erik Richard S=F8rensen wrote
(in article <46486e3a$0$4172$ba624c82@nntp02.dk.telia.net>):

> ...And to this I can add
> Hogwasher 4.3 (shareware) because it has a better implementation of 
> nonUS and non-ASCII characters like the special German, Scandinavian and 
> Centraleuropean characters.
> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/1993

The Hog is great, although I received some flak recently for its inability to 
handle umlauts correctly ;-(

Allow me to recommend MacSoup (home.snafu.de/stk/macsoup/index.html) as well.
-- 
Klaus Beckmann
beckes@mac.com

0
Klaus
5/14/2007 8:30:16 PM
Klaus Beckmann <beckes@mac.com> wrote:

> Allow me to recommend MacSoup (home.snafu.de/stk/macsoup/index.html) as well.

Seconded. Not many frills (it's text only) but it's rock-solid and still
actively maintained. There's a full-function unlimited free trial
available.

-- 
^�^     <snipe@notforspam.fsnet.co.uk>    (unmunged, use as is)
0
snipe
5/14/2007 10:29:04 PM
On May 14, 2007 One4All wrote:

> On May 13, 8:08 pm, Tim Lance <see....@bottom.com> wrote:
>> Start with
>> 
>> http://www.newsreaders.com/mac/clients.html
>> 
>> Yeah, the Hog!
>> 
> Tim, thanks. I've got Panther & Hog requires Tiger.


It seems to me like a good reason to get Tiger :)

-- 
Patrick - Brighton, UK
If you wish email me from my web-site: <http://www.patrickjames.me.uk>
Inventory service in Sussex: <http://www.inventoryworks.co.uk>

0
patrick
5/14/2007 11:12:29 PM
On Mon, 14 May 2007 13:27:06 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article <1179167226.493559.206950@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>):

> On May 14, 5:44 am, Tim Lance <see....@bottom.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 21:00:24 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
>> (in article <2007051321002420738-jollyroger@REMOVEpoboxcom>):
>> 
>>> I love Unison:
>> 
>>> <http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/13984/unison>
>> 
>>> Before Unison, I used MT-NewsWatcher for years and years:
>> 
>>> <http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/7174/mt-newswatcher-x>
>> 
>>> Both are great Usenet clients, IMO.
>> 
>> Too bad. While Unison is very possibly the future, it has been stuck at v1.x
>> for years. I'm hoping it moves on now that Panic has released (and 
>> presumably
>> has some time) their "big new app" Coda. Unison does have a pretty face and 
>> I
>> admit to falling under it's spell for a time.
> 
> I'm not sure what version numbers have to do with anything. Yes, Panic
> is a small company, but that has advantages - for instance, they can
> nimbly add new features to Unison in a very fast manner.
> 
> Panic has been actively communicating with me ever since I started
> using Unison full-time recently, and I've seen them already in the
> last release implement one of my suggestions (they added functionality
> to honor Followup-To headers). That's just the tip of the iceburg in
> terms of all the features and functionality I've been requesting from
> them, and the majority of the features I have requested, they have
> already agreed to implement in future revisions.
> 
> Unison is a fairly young application, with lots of room to go. But I
> see a lot of promise in it, and for light use, it's a fine Usenet
> client.  Remember the OP is looking for something more basic than MT-
> NewsWatcher.
> 
>> MT-Newswatcher is free and is very developed.
> 
> Yep - it is also packed with features and options, which means it's a
> great suit for Usenet power users.
> 
>> Are you big on the use of filters? Unison's filtering is weak.
> 
> Unison's filtering is basic, but not that bad really. You can use
> regular expressions in the filters. I'd like to see more expansion in
> terms of actions applied to filters and so on, but, again, Panic has
> been extremely open to suggestions in my experience. If you feel Panic
> should improve Unison's filtering in certain ways, contact them about
> it - or let me know and I'll pass it on.
> 
>> Do you do a lot of binaries downloading? This is Unison's strength but you
>> need to stay frequent with your groups or the way it handles its internal
>> database of headers can put you to sleep, and even then it's tedious.
>> Uploading? MT-NW does not do yEnc (down is fine) and
>> Unison's posting is relatively new and features sparse. most serious 
>> binaries
>> posters use Thoth (at any given moment not available - LONG story).
> 
> I don't download or upload much, so I can't really comment about that
> part of Unison.
> 

I, too, have had much communication with Panic folks and have a been a beta 
tester forever, and there's the rub. I have two major feature needs, both 
part and parcel to newsgroup management, and it's been years since they said 
they'd roll one of them in (and they're on record, with me, that it'd be a 
paid-for v2).

Panic would have you believe Unison is the "promise" of binaries groups. 
Unison has 4 views, two of which are Music (very limited definition) and 
Images. Most folks, coming from a newswatcher variant, are used to 
"multi-group" opening. That is, choosing, say, all the Mac text groups and 
double-clicking them and having windows for all of them then opening. Can't 
do it in Unison. best you can do is become facile at opening a group's 
window, keystroking back to the Groups window and selecting another group, 
and repeating. I became extremely adept at this, so determined I was to love 
Unison (two years ago). I was even happy (read: accepting) to wait for the 
promised v2. But, I became tired of the way Unison manages its internal 
databases for "read/still on servers" articles. I hope they will continue. I 
will pay for the v2 sight unseen if for no other reason than to spur 
development. With the release of Coda I hope they will quickly clean up its 
early buggishnesses and then move to a major Unison upgrade. It's been 2.5 
years or so since v1.5.1.

I think its filtering can be made to do for most, certainly many. It's 
binaries posting issues can easily be be accommodated. It's the group 
management thing for me.

-- 

Tim
lance_1012@hotmail.com

0
Tim
5/14/2007 11:16:41 PM
In article 
<andy7-5-ED99B1.16444814052007@news.cable.ntlworld.com>,
 Andrew Wingate <andy7-5@sparse.net> wrote:

> But you need to find the usenet reader that works best for you and fits 
> in with your way of reading news with least unnecessary hassle.

This sentiment is expressed so many times that I have become 
suspicious of it. I am now considering that just maybe people 
should use whatever they find particularly unsuitable.

-- 
dorayme
0
dorayme
5/15/2007 2:26:21 AM
MacSoup, without question -- as long as you are not looking to download
binaries.

MacSoup has a unique thread display at the top of each message that
makes it trivial to see the pedigree of any message, and to traverse
specific sub-threads.  

I have no idea why all other other readers have not glomed onto that
idea and used it too.  It really changes the behavior of reading threads
-- in a highly positive way.

One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> wrote:

> I've been using Google Groups as a newsgroup reader, but have run into
> problems getting a post thru to a high activity newsgroup. I've been
> advised to go to a third party newsreader & tried OSXnews, but that
> app relies on Google to access UseNet. So, I'm thinking, if I can't
> have success with Google, then why go thru one app to get to another
> app that doesn't work.
> 
> Can anyone out there advise a good, independent, preferably free,
> newsgroup reader for the Mac that doesn't rely on Google?


-- 
- Burt Johnson
  MindStorm, Inc.
  http://www.mindstorm-inc.com/software.html
0
burt
5/15/2007 2:34:39 AM
Tim Lance wrote:

> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:57:46 -0500, MegaDave wrote
> (in article <BvSdnfI4dpqnQ9rbnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com>):
> 
> > TaliesinSoft wrote:
> > 
> >> My suggestion is to research newsreaders, give each a try and then
> >> decide.
> > 
> > I would agree with this suggestion as well.  I'm still using
> > XanaNews in Parallels until I decide which of the Mac ones I like.
> > 
> > So far Thunderbird is probably the easiest to use.  It doesn't do
> > much for newsgroup filtering (even with 2.0) but 1.5 lets you
> > easily tack in Face and X-Face headers, see previous postings
> > (since it's an offline reader), and just have fun in general with
> > newsgroups.
> > 
> > After that I'd have to say I probably like Hogwasher a lot.  I've
> > found a couple of problems that the author is looking into and will
> > hopefully have fixed by his next update.
> > 
> > But since I'm used to Xananews - I keep going back over to it.
> > 
> > 
> 
> Out of curiosity, what problems with HW? BTW, has he (KS) mentioned
> the v5 revision?

I've seen problems with older Collabra servers where the threads don't
sort and organize correctly.  The result is that the threading of
discussions goes right out the window.

-- 
The System Has Failed
0
MegaDave
5/15/2007 2:37:08 AM
On Mon, 14 May 2007 21:37:08 -0500, MegaDave wrote
(in article <t8udnSjOAYdJgdTbnZ2dnUVZ_rGinZ2d@comcast.com>):

> Tim Lance wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:57:46 -0500, MegaDave wrote
>> (in article <BvSdnfI4dpqnQ9rbnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com>):
>> 
>>> TaliesinSoft wrote:
>>> 
>>>> My suggestion is to research newsreaders, give each a try and then
>>>> decide.
>>> 
>>> I would agree with this suggestion as well.  I'm still using
>>> XanaNews in Parallels until I decide which of the Mac ones I like.
>>> 
>>> So far Thunderbird is probably the easiest to use.  It doesn't do
>>> much for newsgroup filtering (even with 2.0) but 1.5 lets you
>>> easily tack in Face and X-Face headers, see previous postings
>>> (since it's an offline reader), and just have fun in general with
>>> newsgroups.
>>> 
>>> After that I'd have to say I probably like Hogwasher a lot.  I've
>>> found a couple of problems that the author is looking into and will
>>> hopefully have fixed by his next update.
>>> 
>>> But since I'm used to Xananews - I keep going back over to it.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Out of curiosity, what problems with HW? BTW, has he (KS) mentioned
>> the v5 revision?
> 
> I've seen problems with older Collabra servers where the threads don't
> sort and organize correctly.  The result is that the threading of
> discussions goes right out the window.
> 
> 

Yeah. That'd suck.

Thanks.

-- 

Tim
lance_1012@hotmail.com

0
Tim
5/15/2007 2:43:39 AM
On Mon, 14 May 2007 21:34:39 -0500, Burt Johnson wrote
(in article <1hy4bh7.zzd0c61npjthiN%burt@mindstorm-inc.com>):

> MacSoup has a unique thread display at the top of each message that makes it 
> trivial to see the pedigree of any message, and to traverse specific 
> sub-threads.  
> 
> I have no idea why all other other readers have not glomed onto that idea and 

> used it too.  It really changes the behavior of reading threads
> -- in a highly positive way.

Hogwasher sports a similar thread display.

-- 
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@mac.com

0
TaliesinSoft
5/15/2007 2:47:24 AM
Erik Richard S�rensen wrote:

> ...And of course also the mail & news part of the combined browsers like
> SeaMonkey 1.1.1 (freeware)
 > http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/29027

:)  http://www.seamonkey-project.org

One downside is that the download is 22meg (thanks in part to
it being a Universal binary.)

> Mozilla 1.7.13 (freeware)

No, the Mozilla Suite is DEAD.  It is obsolete, unmaintained,
insecure.  1.7.13 was released in the spring of 2006.   It has not had
any of the security fixes that other Mozilla based products (FF, TB, SM)
have had in the meantime.   Anyone still using the Mozilla Suite should
update to SeaMonkey (or other maintained software.)  SeaMonkey 1.x is what
would have been Mozilla Suite 1.8.  It is a drop in replacement.

> The advantages of using a combined app is of course that you only have 
> to run _1_ program for both browsing, mail and news.... 

Yes, rendering Rich Text/HTML mail takes the guts of a browser, so why
have multiple rendering engines in memory?  Other resources are also
shared.

> Regarding the 
> WaMCom, I'll have to say that though it's rather old, it runs like a 
> dream on both OS X 10.2.x, 10.3.x and 10.4.x Intels/PPCs doesn't matter. 

Has it had security updates?

> And - there are multiple versions for both Windows, Mac (also OS 9.x) 
> and various Linux systems. All versions are _100%_ identical in the 
> features and look, so no matter what system you're using, they can be 
> setup identical...

Cross-platform is an advantage of the Mozilla products too.

> ...And of course
> Mozilla Thunderbird 2.0 (freeware)
> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20359

http://www.mozilla.com/thunderbird/

The Mozilla mailnews implementation is somewhat weak at filtering and
not suitable for binary groups, but quite clean and easy to use
otherwise.

-- 
Clem
"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over."
              - Fudd's first law of opposition
0
Mr
5/15/2007 3:19:55 AM
Mr. Uh Clem wrote:
> Erik Richard S=F8rensen wrote:
>> ...And of course also the mail & news part of the combined browsers li=
ke
>> SeaMonkey 1.1.1 (freeware)
>> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/29027
>=20
> :)  http://www.seamonkey-project.org

Okey, okey... a good 'search' gave all links in one VT search.:-)

> One downside is that the download is 22meg (thanks in part to
> it being a Universal binary.)

Yes, but with a fast connection it won't take long time. I took it down=20
in apprx. a minute on a 6mbits line...

>> Mozilla 1.7.13 (freeware)
>=20
> No, the Mozilla Suite is DEAD.  It is obsolete, unmaintained,
> insecure.  1.7.13 was released in the spring of 2006.   It has not had
> any of the security fixes that other Mozilla based products (FF, TB, SM=
)
> have had in the meantime.   Anyone still using the Mozilla Suite should=

> update to SeaMonkey (or other maintained software.)  SeaMonkey 1.x is w=
hat
> would have been Mozilla Suite 1.8.  It is a drop in replacement.

last first... SeaMonkey is not Mozilla 1.8. SeaMonkey is much closer to=20
Netscape 8 (no Mac ver. of that one) and the Mozilla 2.0. AFAIK the=20
original plan was to keep the name 'Mozilla', but then they chose to=20
split the projects and release individual apps - Firefox and=20
Thunderbird, - and to keep up with the new naming strategy, they=20
released it under 'SeaMonkey' - I have both the Mozilla 2.0b and nearly=20
all SeaMonkey versions, and they are quite similar, but the GUI looks=20
more like Netscape 8 for Windows.

First last.:-) - Regarding the socalled security issues. There was a=20
single issue in Mozilla 1.7.11, which was fixed in 1.7.12. Then shortly=20
after Secunia came out with a 'severe bug' in 1.7.12 as well as in Opera =

8.0, which btw. turned out to be totally wrong, but Mozilla took no=20
chance and rewrote the resources and released the 1.7.13. I ran the=20
1.7.13 in an text editor and it seems as if only very few bytes were=20
added. (Running the Opera 8.0.1 update gave me a dialog that this wasn't =

necessary).

Strangely enough, Secunia only mentioned security bugsthe Mac versions=20
of these apps, though these have no bugs, but the Win-versions indeed=20
had a bug... - A Danish company - AVGSecurity part of VMData - published =

that and warned heavily to use any other browsers than the MSIE 6.0 on=20
both _Mac_ and Windows !!! - When I called VMData and told them that=20
there is no IE 6 for Mac, the guy got real angry and told me to shut up. =

I kindly then told him to do a better research, and if they didn't=20
withdraw that, I'd have to contact IBM directly and tell that their=20
people spread lies and misinformations. (VMData is owned by IBM). - Few=20
hours later they went out in the press (radio + TV) and denied the=20
previous statement and corrected it only to be the Windows ver. of both=20
Mozilla and IE that had the trouble.

So no need to worry to use Mozilla 1.7.13 on a Mac... And don't trust in =

what Secunia comes out with. 99 times out of 100 they are running with a =

half wind - as we say here in Denmark - or directly lying abotu these=20
security bug issues.

>> The advantages of using a combined app is of course that you only have=
=20
>> to run _1_ program for both browsing, mail and news....=20
>=20
> Yes, rendering Rich Text/HTML mail takes the guts of a browser, so why
> have multiple rendering engines in memory?  Other resources are also
> shared.

Yep! and fx. also switching forth and back between webbased, newsgroup,=20
based and mailklient based mailing is so fast and easy

>> Regarding the WaMCom, I'll have to say that though it's rather old, it=
=20
>> runs like a dream on both OS X 10.2.x, 10.3.x and 10.4.x Intels/PPCs=20
>> doesn't matter.=20
>=20
> Has it had security updates?

No, there is a single patch, but it has nothing to do with security. But =

it isn't necessary either. The WaMCom is a German Mozilla project, and=20
it is build with typical German thoroughness and stability. - I still=20
use it on my Beige G3 running 9.2.2, and it has never given any trouble, =

- not even a crash or unexpected quit since first installation. - Once I =

was ordering some computerstuff from OWC using WaMCom, then it wsuddenly =

came up with a dialog, "...You need to update xxx, yyy and zzz security=20
certificate resources. Do you want...." I have never seen this in any=20
other browser before! - Of course I clicked OK, and apprx. 30 secs.=20
later I got a dialog that certificates and related resources have been=20
updated and that I could continue shopping.

Of course I got very curious to see what has happened. By this I=20
discovered that WaMCom had two more certificates from VeriSign than any=20
other browser I had at the time - Opera 8.0, Safari 1.2.x, Mozilla=20
1.7.12 and iCab 2.98. - These extra certifiactes are also included in=20
SeaMonkey...

>> And - there are multiple versions for both Windows, Mac (also OS 9.x) =

>> and various Linux systems. All versions are _100%_ identical in the=20
>> features and look, so no matter what system you're using, they can be =

>> setup identical...
>=20
> Cross-platform is an advantage of the Mozilla products too.
>=20
>> ...And of course
>> Mozilla Thunderbird 2.0 (freeware)
>> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20359
>=20
> http://www.mozilla.com/thunderbird/
>=20
> The Mozilla mailnews implementation is somewhat weak at filtering and
> not suitable for binary groups, but quite clean and easy to use
> otherwise.

Hm, I never use binary groups, so this doesn't matter to me - and=20
neither to most of the people that I know...

Infact I find the filtering system quite good and trustworthy - at least =

in both WaMCom, Mozilla and SeaMonkey, but it can be rather hard to set=20
it up correctly, but a little practise solve that....

Cheers, Erik Richard

--=20
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Rgds. Gr=FC=DFe, Mvh. Erik Richard S=F8rensen, Member of ADC
  <mac-man_NOSP@M_stofanet.dk>  <http://www.nisus.com>
  NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Textprocessing
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
0
ISO
5/15/2007 3:01:09 PM
On 2007-05-14 00:35:26 -0500, One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> said:

> On May 13, 9:40 pm, TaliesinSoft <taliesins...@mac.com> wrote:
>> 
>> My suggestion is to research newsreaders, give each a try and then decide.
>> 
> That, I will do. Thanks.

It would be nice if you could let us know which you choose in the end 
and your reasons for choosing it.  : )

-- 
JR

0
Jolly
5/15/2007 4:17:29 PM
Just a note about WaMCom's stability here, since it was mentioned in 
this thread. The only time this browser crashes on my system (G4 
Sawtooth, 1.5GHz CPU, 1.25GB RAM, OS 9.2.2, WaMCom 1.3.1)
is when I have many, many, many bookmarks, and attempt to pull down the 
Bookmarks menu at top of screen. The app unexpectedly quits, with 
either a Type 2 or 3 error, but I know it's just because I haven't 
managed my bookmarks, so then I do a bit of clean-up, and all is well.

On a more relevant note to this thread, I recommend Hogwasher for a 
news reader above all other apps out there.

Happy computing,
Eric

==============================================================
 Posted with Hogwasher. Mac first, Mac only:
     http://www.asar.com/cgi-bin/product.pl?58/hogwasher.html 
==============================================================

0
Eric
5/15/2007 4:53:44 PM
Eric P. <ericpNOSPAM06@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Just a note about WaMCom's stability here, since it was mentioned in 
> this thread. The only time this browser crashes on my system (G4 
> Sawtooth, 1.5GHz CPU, 1.25GB RAM, OS 9.2.2, WaMCom 1.3.1)
> is when I have many, many, many bookmarks, and attempt to pull down the
> Bookmarks menu at top of screen. The app unexpectedly quits, with 
> either a Type 2 or 3 error, but I know it's just because I haven't 
> managed my bookmarks, so then I do a bit of clean-up, and all is well.

I don't care how many bookmarks you have; if a browser crashes just
because you're using the Bookmarks menu, either it's got a bug or you
have a problem on the Mac that needs to be addressed.  I've only once
seen a browser crash from the Bookmarks or Favorites menu on _any_ Mac,
and that was with someone using AOL's browser.

-- 
<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts
<http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Humorous/muckraking T-shirts
<http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers
<http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift
0
mikePOST
5/15/2007 9:41:16 PM
Burt Johnson <burt@mindstorm-inc.com> wrote:

> MacSoup, without question -- as long as you are not looking to download
> binaries.
> 
> MacSoup has a unique thread display at the top of each message that
> makes it trivial to see the pedigree of any message, and to traverse
> specific sub-threads.  
> 
> I have no idea why all other other readers have not glomed onto that
> idea and used it too.  It really changes the behavior of reading threads
> -- in a highly positive way.

To be fair Hogwasher also uses the thread display ... but I still prefer
MacSOUP's version. Keeping track of different sub-threads is clearly a
problem for people using other newsreaders without this feature (though
the users may not realise). It is quite common for posts to end up in
the wrong part of the thread, with people inadvertently mixing up
responses.

-- 
Adrian
0
nonesuch
5/15/2007 9:45:24 PM
In article <1hy6exn.1hnbq0qnjw9g9N%nonesuch@place.com>,
 nonesuch@place.com (Adrian) wrote:

>  I have no idea why all other other readers have not glomed onto that
> > idea and used it too.  It really changes the behavior of reading threads
> > -- in a highly positive way.
> 
> To be fair Hogwasher also uses the thread display ... but I still prefer
> MacSOUP's version. Keeping track of different sub-threads is clearly a
> problem for people using other newsreaders without this feature


I don't understand why this heirarchical thread display is important, at 
least for me.

I check my groups a few times a day and mark everything as read each 
time. So I only end up seeing a few posts to a thread anyhow.

If I am interested , I filter it to the top.

It seems this thread display is only relevant for someone who checks his 
groups maybe once/week.

-- 
m-m
0
M
5/16/2007 12:44:53 AM
TaliesinSoft wrote:
> On Mon, 14 May 2007 21:34:39 -0500, Burt Johnson wrote
> (in article <1hy4bh7.zzd0c61npjthiN%burt@mindstorm-inc.com>):
> 
>> MacSoup has a unique thread display at the top of each message that makes it 
>> trivial to see the pedigree of any message, and to traverse specific 
>> sub-threads.  
>>
>> I have no idea why all other other readers have not glomed onto that idea and 
> 
>> used it too.  It really changes the behavior of reading threads
>> -- in a highly positive way.
> 
> Hogwasher sports a similar thread display.

And Nemo, IIRC.
0
Calum
5/16/2007 1:00:59 AM
On May 15, 10:17 am, Jolly Roger <jollyro...@null.org> wrote:
> On 2007-05-14 00:35:26 -0500, One4All <dwer...@bresnan.net> said:
>
> > On May 13, 9:40 pm, TaliesinSoft <taliesins...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >> My suggestion is to research newsreaders, give each a try and then decide.
>
> > That, I will do. Thanks.
>
> It would be nice if you could let us know which you choose in the end
> and your reasons for choosing it.  : )
>
> --
> JR

I will do so, but it may be a while. I've gotten a ton of suggestions
from my  post & more info than I knew existed in the newsgroup world.
I've given Google's reader another try & so far it's been posting ok.
I really like the tree structure of posts under a topic that opens in
its own window.

One thing I've learned by trying MT-NewsWatcher & looking at sites of
other readers suggested is comments by posters in Google Groups, who
obviously are not using Google, such as, "He's in my kill file." I
thought, "What is a kill file?" Now, I know.

I'll explore suggested newsreaders because they are probably better
than Google, but I've got a big push on making some DVDs with iMovie,
QT, & Toast (no iDVD for me).

At any rate, I *will* let you know.

0
One4All
5/16/2007 8:40:08 AM
Not true.  I check several times a day.  When I see a message, I can
easily see what message that person is responding too.  Not the general
thread, but the specific message.

You will see some people here complaining that they do not know what
context was being replied too. You can bet they do not have a decnet
threading reader...

M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:

> I don't understand why this heirarchical thread display is important, at
> least for me.
> 
> I check my groups a few times a day and mark everything as read each 
> time. So I only end up seeing a few posts to a thread anyhow.
> 
> If I am interested , I filter it to the top.
> 
> It seems this thread display is only relevant for someone who checks his
> groups maybe once/week.


-- 
- Burt Johnson
  MindStorm, Inc.
  http://www.mindstorm-inc.com/software.html
0
burt
5/16/2007 8:55:50 AM
On Wed, 16 May 2007 03:55:50 -0500, Burt Johnson wrote
(in article <1hy6npb.8cvo1j18sooplN%burt@mindstorm-inc.com>):

Look down.

> Not true.  I check several times a day.  When I see a message, I can
> easily see what message that person is responding too.  Not the general
> thread, but the specific message.
> 
> You will see some people here complaining that they do not know what
> context was being replied too. You can bet they do not have a decnet
> threading reader...
> 
> M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:
> 
>> I don't understand why this heirarchical thread display is important, at
>> least for me.
>> 
>> I check my groups a few times a day and mark everything as read each 
>> time. So I only end up seeing a few posts to a thread anyhow.
>> 
>> If I am interested , I filter it to the top.
>> 
>> It seems this thread display is only relevant for someone who checks his
>> groups maybe once/week.
> 
> 
> 

Are you kidding me? I have one of the best threading apps there is.

There's a reason a good and time-honored app (admittedly, I don't know about 
MacSOUP) will automatically put the insertion point after all the previous 
text into a reply. It is so it all flows.

What you are thinking of, IMO, is the nature of reading email between two 
people. I ask my sister a question. She responds and her email app puts the 
insertion point at the top of the message. Yes, she knows what's been 
written. I likewise respond in kind.

In USENET many folks will jump into threads at many different times/points.

-- 

Tim
lance_1012@hotmail.com

0
Tim
5/16/2007 10:38:12 AM
Burt Johnson <burt@mindstorm-inc.com> wrote:

> You will see some people here complaining that they do not know what
> context was being replied too. You can bet they do not have a decnet
> threading reader...

I do.  I use MacSOUP 2.8 just like you, but it's damn inconsiderate of
people to expect others to have to put in an effort to see the context
of their posts.
 
-- 
<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts
<http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Humorous/muckraking T-shirts
<http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers
<http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift
0
mikePOST
5/16/2007 1:24:33 PM
In article <rsudnSW8PdaIQtfbnZ2dnUVZ_ozinZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Tim Lance <see.sig@bottom.com> wrote:

> In USENET many folks will jump into threads at many different times/points.


I guess it's what you get used to. I prefer MT's method of threading for 
at least 2 reasons-

1- it's way more compact to see the subject line and number of replies 
than to see everything expanded.

2- it's more confusing to see this heirarchy that still doesn't show me 
anything content-wise: b,c and d replied to a; g and h replied to f. I 
still have to go look to see and I could have figured it out anyhow.

I have MT set so any references to my posts are purple. That's cool.

-- 
m-m
0
M
5/16/2007 1:26:54 PM
On 2007-05-16 03:40:08 -0500, One4All <dwerner@bresnan.net> said:

> At any rate, I *will* let you know.

Looking forward to it. Thanks.  : )

-- 
JR

0
Jolly
5/16/2007 3:39:49 PM
Erik Richard S�rensen wrote:
> Mr. Uh Clem wrote:
>> Erik Richard S�rensen wrote:
>>> ...And of course also the mail & news part of the combined browsers like
>>> SeaMonkey 1.1.1 (freeware)
>>
>> :)  http://www.seamonkey-project.org
>>
>> One downside is that the download is 22meg (thanks in part to
>> it being a Universal binary.)
> 
> Yes, but with a fast connection it won't take long time. I took it down 
> in apprx. a minute on a 6mbits line...

Sure, I have fast access too.  Just trying to provide info for others.

>>> Mozilla 1.7.13 (freeware)
>>
>> No, the Mozilla Suite is DEAD.  It is obsolete, unmaintained,
>> insecure.  1.7.13 was released in the spring of 2006.   It has not had
>> any of the security fixes that other Mozilla based products (FF, TB, SM)
>> have had in the meantime.   Anyone still using the Mozilla Suite should
>> update to SeaMonkey (or other maintained software.)  SeaMonkey 1.x is 
>> what
>> would have been Mozilla Suite 1.8.  It is a drop in replacement.
> 
> last first... SeaMonkey is not Mozilla 1.8. SeaMonkey is much closer to 
> Netscape 8 (no Mac ver. of that one) and the Mozilla 2.0. 

In the interest of historical accuracy:  SeaMonkey is the *direct*
continuation of the Mozilla Suite code base.  The SeaMonkey team
started  with what had advanced to Mozilla Suite 1.8 beta.  That
became the basis for SeaMonkey 1.0.   The SeaMonkey team has continued
to make improvements in the suite while incorporating all the
fixes also going into FF & TB.

What's Mozilla 2? (FF?)  Without researching, I believe NS 7 was
Netscape rebaking Mozilla 1.7 and NS 8 was derived from FF 1.
NS 8 is not a suite, and Windows only, right?

> AFAIK the 
> original plan was to keep the name 'Mozilla', but then they chose to 
> split the projects and release individual apps - Firefox and 
> Thunderbird, - and to keep up with the new naming strategy, they 
> released it under 'SeaMonkey' - 

Mozilla foundation decided that the direction was individual
applications, FF & TB.  Because the suite was no longer an
official Mozilla product, it had to be renamed.  The name the
new team chose was SeaMonkey, which had been an internal name
for the codebase.

> I have both the Mozilla 2.0b   and nearly
> all SeaMonkey versions, and they are quite similar, but the GUI looks 
> more like Netscape 8 for Windows.
> 
[snip]
> 
> So no need to worry to use Mozilla 1.7.13 on a Mac... And don't trust in 
> what Secunia comes out with. 99 times out of 100 they are running with a 
> half wind - as we say here in Denmark - or directly lying abotu these 
> security bug issues.

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/known-vulnerabilities.html

You will note that many of the vulnerabilities involve scripting
and thus are inherently cross platform.   Yes, Mac is safER.   :)

[snip advantages of using a combined app :) ]

>>> Regarding the WaMCom, I'll have to say that though it's rather old, 
>>> it runs like a dream on both OS X 10.2.x, 10.3.x and 10.4.x 
>>> Intels/PPCs doesn't matter. 
>>
>> Has it had security updates?
> 
> No, there is a single patch, but it has nothing to do with security. 
[snip]
Then I would think it suffer many of the same vulnerabilities as at
the link above, if it is indeed derived from the Mozilla code base.

>> The Mozilla mailnews implementation is somewhat weak at filtering and
>> not suitable for binary groups, but quite clean and easy to use
>> otherwise.
> 
> Hm, I never use binary groups, so this doesn't matter to me - and 
> neither to most of the people that I know...

Nor I...

> Infact I find the filtering system quite good and trustworthy - at least 
> in both WaMCom, Mozilla and SeaMonkey, but it can be rather hard to set 
> it up correctly, but a little practise solve that....

It does not seem as powerful as I've seen posted for other products.
The main frustration is limited header field filtering.

> Cheers, Erik Richard

Back at ya!

-- 
Clem
"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over."
              - Fudd's first law of opposition
0
Mr
5/19/2007 8:18:57 PM
Mr. Uh Clem wrote:
> Erik Richard S=F8rensen wrote:
>> Mr. Uh Clem wrote:
>>> Erik Richard S=F8rensen wrote:
>>>> ...And of course also the mail & news part of the combined browsers =

>>>> like
>>>> SeaMonkey 1.1.1 (freeware)
>>>
>>> :)  http://www.seamonkey-project.org
>>>
>>> One downside is that the download is 22meg (thanks in part to
>>> it being a Universal binary.)
>>
>> Yes, but with a fast connection it won't take long time. I took it=20
>> down in apprx. a minute on a 6mbits line...
>=20
> Sure, I have fast access too.  Just trying to provide info for others.

OK, I keep forgetting that here in Denmark apprx. 80% of the peopla have =

access to speeds +1mbit....

>>>> Mozilla 1.7.13 (freeware)
>>>
>>> No, the Mozilla Suite is DEAD.  It is obsolete, unmaintained,
>>> insecure.  1.7.13 was released in the spring of 2006.   It has not ha=
d
>>> any of the security fixes that other Mozilla based products (FF, TB, =
SM)
>>> have had in the meantime.   Anyone still using the Mozilla Suite shou=
ld
>>> update to SeaMonkey (or other maintained software.)  SeaMonkey 1.x is=
=20
>>> what
>>> would have been Mozilla Suite 1.8.  It is a drop in replacement.
>>
>> last first... SeaMonkey is not Mozilla 1.8. SeaMonkey is much closer=20
>> to Netscape 8 (no Mac ver. of that one) and the Mozilla 2.0.=20
>=20
> In the interest of historical accuracy:  SeaMonkey is the *direct*
> continuation of the Mozilla Suite code base.  The SeaMonkey team
> started  with what had advanced to Mozilla Suite 1.8 beta.  That
> became the basis for SeaMonkey 1.0.   The SeaMonkey team has continued
> to make improvements in the suite while incorporating all the
> fixes also going into FF & TB.

Strange, - are you quite sure of that? - Reading the Mozilla pages don't =

say too much about this. But many, many people her says that SeaMonkey=20
is so close to Netscape 8 for Windows in so many ways that just adding=20
Netscape icon and Netscape name could make people think that it is=20
Netscape...

> What's Mozilla 2? (FF?)  Without researching, I believe NS 7 was
> Netscape rebaking Mozilla 1.7 and NS 8 was derived from FF 1.
> NS 8 is not a suite, and Windows only, right?

Mozilla 2.0b is - or more correct - should be - the next generation of=20
Mozilla combined brwoser, mail and news app, but suddenly the team=20
decided to split the program into two parts - a stand-alone browser =3D=20
Firefox - and a mail and news client =3D Thunderbird. And from what I've =

read around those different Mozilla projectssssssssssssssssssssssssssss, =

the various teams were split and rebuilt into other teams. - A team=20
concentrating on Firefox, a team on Thunderbird, and for a while nothing =

happened to Mozilla (combined) except the last update from 1.7.12 to=20
1.7.13. - Until suddenly the SeaMonkey 0.8 came out. At that time I had=20
been using the German Mozilla build WaMCom X 1.3.1 (similar to Mozilla=20
1.5/1.6 for Windows)

Netscape 7.x (last mac ver.) and Netscape 8.x are both browser, mail and =

news just like Mozilla 1.7.x and SeaMonkey. The Netscape 7.x for Mac is=20
fully build on Netscape 6.x for Mac, but the Netscape 8.x for Windows=20
have some parts of the Mozilla 2.0 implemented. I have the Mozilla 2.0b=20
for mac and also Netscape 8.0 for Windows. The Mozilla 2.0b is only in=20
first beta stadium and somewhat unstable, but the Netscape 8.0 for=20
Windows is fairly good, but a heavy 'monster' to run on Win98, which for =

the moment is my only Windows OS. Only 64mb of pfysical memory is=20
pulling rather hard on the virtual memory on Windows.:-)

>> AFAIK the original plan was to keep the name 'Mozilla', but then they =

>> chose to split the projects and release individual apps - Firefox and =

>> Thunderbird, - and to keep up with the new naming strategy, they=20
>> released it under 'SeaMonkey' -=20
>=20
> Mozilla foundation decided that the direction was individual
> applications, FF & TB.  Because the suite was no longer an
> official Mozilla product, it had to be renamed.  The name the
> new team chose was SeaMonkey, which had been an internal name
> for the codebase.

If that's the full wstory, then it's strange that they are still under=20
the same hat so to speak... As I wrote above, the various Mozilla teams=20
have been totally reorganized and split into more different groups...

>> I have both the Mozilla 2.0b   and nearly
>> all SeaMonkey versions, and they are quite similar, but the GUI looks =

>> more like Netscape 8 for Windows.
>>
>> [snip]
>> So no need to worry to use Mozilla 1.7.13 on a Mac... And don't trust =

>> in what Secunia comes out with. 99 times out of 100 they are running=20
>> with a half wind - as we say here in Denmark - or directly lying abotu=
=20
>> these security bug issues.
>=20
> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/known-vulnerabilities.html
>=20
> You will note that many of the vulnerabilities involve scripting
> and thus are inherently cross platform.   Yes, Mac is safER.   :)

Hm, I've never in the last 9 years observed any socalled security issues =

on any Mozilla version on Macs AND Windows too for that matter...
>=20
>>>> Regarding the WaMCom, I'll have to say that though it's rather old, =

>>>> it runs like a dream on both OS X 10.2.x, 10.3.x and 10.4.x=20
>>>> Intels/PPCs doesn't matter.=20
>>>
>>> Has it had security updates?
>>
>> No, there is a single patch, but it has nothing to do with security.=20
>=20
> Then I would think it suffer many of the same vulnerabilities as at
> the link above, if it is indeed derived from the Mozilla code base.

Nope, - as I wrote WaMCom is a total German rewrite of the original=20
Mozilla codes. Until SeaMonkey WaMCom was the fastest ever combined app=20
on both OS 9.x and X 10.2.8-10.4.9. And I have never had any problems of =

any kind except once, where I've forgotten to update my VeriSign=20
certificates, to which I got a very kindly note from VeriSign.

>>> The Mozilla mailnews implementation is somewhat weak at filtering and=

>>> not suitable for binary groups, but quite clean and easy to use
>>> otherwise.
>>
>> Hm, I never use binary groups, so this doesn't matter to me - and=20
>> neither to most of the people that I know...
>=20
> Nor I...
>=20
>> Infact I find the filtering system quite good and trustworthy - at=20
>> least in both WaMCom, Mozilla and SeaMonkey, but it can be rather hard=
=20
>> to set it up correctly, but a little practise solve that....
>=20
> It does not seem as powerful as I've seen posted for other products.
> The main frustration is limited header field filtering.

Hm, aren't you aware of that you can expand the filtering settings=20
yourself and add more categories? - I did so in WaMCom and Mozilla 1.7.x =

and it works really fine. If I remember right, I added up to about 20=20
diffent entries at a time, where I got more than 1000 spams and vira a=20
day from the same group of senders, but it didn't help much, because=20
they got hold in my main account name, so I had to change account.:-( -=20
That was before my provider got a good virus and spamfilter, but since=20
they did get these, I maybe get a spam or PC virus once every 3-4 month..=
=2E

Cheers, Erik Richard

--=20
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Rgds. Gr=FC=DFe, Mvh. Erik Richard S=F8rensen, Member of ADC
  <mac-man_NOSP@M_stofanet.dk>  <http://www.nisus.com>
  NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Textprocessing
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
0
ISO
5/19/2007 9:33:36 PM
On May 16, 9:39 am, Jolly Roger <jollyro...@null.org> wrote:
> On 2007-05-16 03:40:08 -0500, One4All <dwer...@bresnan.net> said:
>
> > At any rate, I *will* let you know.
>
I made a promise & I'm keeping it, but it'll disappoint you: Google's
reader has been behaving itself since your post. Once or twice I've
gone to MT-Newswatcher, but it's been awhile. I went to MT simply
because it was the first reader I used, & working with it a bit more
find it less confusing than at first. It's certainly simple, I'll say
that. I really don't want to take the time, right now, to experiment
with the others, since Google has been performing ok, at least for my
needs.

0
One4All
6/2/2007 6:02:25 PM
Reply:

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I wonder how the Windows users would like my (ab)normal Microsoft-free world: My business: all Mac, no PCs. My dentist, family physician and urologist are all Mac. No PCs. Went to Sir Speedy today for more bus. cards and some binding: all Mac (no surprise there). My daughter's three new college room mates have emailed her. Two have PowerBooks and one has an eMac. (She has a G5 iMac.) I never even see a PC unless I am at the public library or a store using a Windows POS unit. It never was intentional. I don't scout a place to see what frickin' computer they use. Just happened. Kind of weird. -- Arf! Old CSMAer Nice! At work I'm stuck on Windows, plus at home my roommate and girlfrield both use Windows. Good thing is I have my ibook at work and both my roommate and gf are getting Macs after their Dell's are paid off. They use Mac's at work and see how my PowerMac at home works while their PeeCee's hose daily. They hate Windows now :) So i'm getting there :) Alex "OldCSMAer" <olddog@kennelsINVALID.com> wrote in message news:olddog-F4AC87.15141003082005@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com... >I wonder how the Windows users would like my (ab)normal Microsoft-free > world: > > My business: all Mac, no PCs. My dentist, family physician and > urologist are all Mac. No PCs. > > Went to Sir Speedy today for more bus. cards and some binding: all Mac > (no surprise there). > > My dau...

New Mac app ideas
I'm fishing for a new Mac app, but I can't come up with any ideas. What sort of app would you find useful? Where do you folks think the Mac is lacking. I'm trying to think different, but I'm stuck in an uncreative rut. -- "My Break-Dancing days are over, but there's always the Funky Chicken" --The Full Monty RE the posting: << I'm fishing for a new Mac app, but I can't come up with any ideas. What sort of app would you find useful? Where do you folks think the Mac is lacking. I'm trying to think different, but I'm stuck in an uncreati...

Mac Intel MIDI apps
Yes, this is primarily an apps question but since I always get a better response here, please indulge me. I used to be a PC user (not a troll) but I prefer the Mac. I've worked with an iMac 20" intel core duo and a G4 eMac recently. I'm trying to find a most excellent MIDI editor / sequencer that allows the user to view the event list and do detailed editing there of tempo, volume, velocity, expression, etc. as well as from a notation screen - I'm finding this very hard to find where in the PC world, MIDI editors are plentiful. Please any low cost or even high-end solution suggestions are welcome and also where to look other than version tracker, etc. Thanks. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com In article <yospam-A13B86.13013512012007@free.teranews.com>, howdy <yospam@nospam.net> wrote: > Yes, this is primarily an apps question but since I always get a better > response here, please indulge me. > I used to be a PC user (not a troll) but I prefer the Mac. I've worked > with an iMac 20" intel core duo and a G4 eMac recently. I'm trying to > find a most excellent MIDI editor / sequencer that allows the user to > view the event list and do detailed editing there of tempo, volume, > velocity, expression, etc. as well as from a notation screen - I'm > finding this very hard to find where in the PC world, MIDI editors are > plentiful. Please any low ...

Crypto-Apps: Ciphers App-1 and App-2.
These ciphers are available now for free downloading from, http://www.adacryptpages.com (navigate to the bottom title boxes). Crypto-App Ciphers - Apps_1 & 2. - Personalised Cryptography for Tablets, L= aptops, Desktop, Main Frame Computers in Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8. Download App_1=20 Download App_2=20 No need to study the cryptography, the mathematics, the programming, the co= mputer science (unless you really want to and then you just peruse the othe= r title boxes on the same site) - instead, just teach yourself to run these= 'apps' as you would any other app...

Mac-to-Mac VPN?
Years ago, I set up a Mac network (under OS9) with a VPN router and some software on a remote PowerBook that allowed VPN access. I'm not terribly familiar with OSX yet, but I understand that much of this functionality is now built in. Can anybody steer me in the right direction as far as hardware, software and configuration? Here's the setup I envision: - Small LAN running two Macs and a printer with a DSL connection through a router. - Remote PowerBook connected to the net varyingly with dial-up, DSL (wired), and AirPort. - Use the PowerBook to securely connect to at l...

Mac OS apps on Linux
Hello, Can anyone tell me how to run off the shelf Mac OS X apps, eg. Pages, or any of the iLife stuff, on Linux? Since Mac OS is a BSD, it should be easy, methinks, but what's the exact software needed, and the exact procedure? Since besides the kernel, the programs would also need facilites on the part of X and whatever desktop system like Gnome or KDE, it's not just a question of the kernel itself. So - what's needed, is it possible, and how do I do it? Thanks. begin virus.txt.scr binary-nomad@hotmail.com wrote: > Hello, > Can anyone tell me how to run off the shelf M...

Mail.app on a Different Mac
Hi, Which files do I have to move for a user moving from one Mac to another so that he can continue to see his mail archives? -- Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of Bolen Books. Dale Friesen, Sysadmin Bolen Books, Inc Victoria, BC Canada root@bolen.bc.ca http://www.bolen.bc.ca dfriesen@amtsgi.bc.ca (Dale Friesen) writes: > Which files do I have to move for a user moving from one Mac to another > so that he can continue to see his mail archives? I can't tell you details for Mail.app off the top of my head, but I do want to make a suggestion to you for the future -...

How accurate is the Mac AudioTest.app?
They don't provide and specs. The assumption is it should be perfectly flat, but does anybody know? Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> writes: > They don't provide and specs. The assumption is it should be perfectly > flat, but does anybody know? Are you refering to this - http://www.katsurashareware.com/pgs/audiotest.html If by flat you mean constant amplitude over a swept frequency range, yes, it can be set for that, and will do it, no problemo. Billy Y.. -- sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer bcc 20$ ; not a number In article <bob-0B9C11.18350521022013@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote: > They don't provide and specs. The assumption is it should be perfectly > flat, but does anybody know? Never heard of it. -- Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR ...

EDA apps on Mac OSX?
OSX is basically FreeBSD unix under the hood with a very nice GUI. Given the fact that dual processor G5's are essentially high performance Unix workstations that also happen to run all of those so-called 'productivity apps', I'm wondering if we'll see any Commercial EDA apps released for the platform? Most of the OpenSource EDA tools like Icarus, GHDL, GTKWave, etc. are already running on OSX (it's quite easy to port code from Linux to OSX - usually no changes are required). I suspect that support issues would probably be less than those associated with Li...

networking mac to mac???
Hello, Can someone out there tell me the best (easy) way to network a ibook running os.9??? possibly to a new imac running osx 5wak <rosscoism@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, Can someone out there tell me the best (easy) way to network a > ibook running os.9??? possibly to a new imac running osx Put an ethernet cable between them, enable tcp/ip and file sharing on one and log on from the other, seems to be what you are asking for? And you do not need a cross-over cable between modern Macs. -- /Jon For contact info, run the following in Terminal: echo 36199371860304980107073482417748002696458P|dc Jon <see_signature@mac.com.invalid> wrote: > 5wak <rosscoism@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hello, Can someone out there tell me the best (easy) way to network a > > ibook running os.9??? possibly to a new imac running osx > > Put an ethernet cable between them, enable tcp/ip and file sharing on > one and log on from the other, seems to be what you are asking for? And > you do not need a cross-over cable between modern Macs. Correction: tcp/ipp of course needs to be enabled on the ethernet port on _both_ machines. File sharing, however, is only necessary on one (preferably the Mac OS X machine). -- /Jon For contact info, run the following in Terminal: echo 36199371860304980107073482417748002696458P|dc In article <1hxqr6q.1u7ne805d0g7N%see_signature@mac.com.invalid>, see_signature@mac.com.invalid (Jon) wrote: > ...

Web resources about - What newsgroup app for the Mac? - comp.sys.mac.apps

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