f



Anyone got Mac classic Mac emulation running well on their Intel Mac?

Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to handle my
classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic MacOS games I'm
desperate to run on my Intel Mac.

I've tried and failed to get Ballisk and SheepShaver running. Mini vMac
runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
both it and OSX.

*sigh*

Has anyone had any sucess? Why is classic Mac emulation so way behind
other emulation efforts? With Amiga emulation running it's surprising
classic Mac emulation is so far behind :-(

TIA,
 Jamie Kahn Genet
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg505 (3043)
11/26/2008 3:47:22 AM
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In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> I've tried and failed to get Ballisk and SheepShaver running. Mini vMac
> runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
> both it and OSX.

Opened by both _at the same time_?  That spells "inevitable corruption".


/Bo Lindbergh
0
Bo
11/26/2008 7:12:47 AM
In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to handle my
> classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic MacOS games I'm
> desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
> 
> I've tried and failed to get Ballisk and SheepShaver running. Mini vMac
> runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
> both it and OSX.
> 
> *sigh*

SheepShaver runs okay here on my Mac Pro. How did it fail for you?

> Has anyone had any sucess? Why is classic Mac emulation so way behind
> other emulation efforts? With Amiga emulation running it's surprising
> classic Mac emulation is so far behind :-(

Probably because not many people care, unfortunately!

-- 
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR
0
Jolly
11/26/2008 7:23:52 AM
In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to handle my
> classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic MacOS games I'm
> desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
> 
> I've tried and failed to get Ballisk and SheepShaver running. Mini vMac
> runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
> both it and OSX.
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> Has anyone had any sucess? Why is classic Mac emulation so way behind
> other emulation efforts? With Amiga emulation running it's surprising
> classic Mac emulation is so far behind :-(

It's probably so far behind because it wasn't that necessary until the 
Intel switch. OS 9 in Classic still ran a lot of old Mac games even on 
the last PPC systems Apple ever made.

The requirement for emulators to use old Mac ROMs introduces tricky 
legal issues as well. While these same issues exist in theory for other 
old platforms, they tend not to exist in practice because when compared 
with Apple, the companies with rights to the intellectual property 
involved with other vintage computers are rather more... dead.

(Hmm, your post caused me to go take a look at some of this stuff. I 
find it rather amusing that I can download System 7 -- the system that 
came on my first Mac, a Quadra 660AV -- in about five seconds. Wonder if 
I'll be able to download Leopard in five seconds in another 15 years. 
That would require consumer Internet speeds to be about 1000x faster. 
And would require rather faster local storage as well, obviously.)

-- 
"If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all
things are possible, who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in
our time, who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your
answer."                                  -- Barack Obama, November 4th, 2008
0
ZnU
11/26/2008 7:24:22 AM
Bo Lindbergh <blgl@hagernas.com> wrote:

> In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > I've tried and failed to get Ballisk and SheepShaver running. Mini vMac
> > runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
> > both it and OSX.
> 
> Opened by both _at the same time_?  That spells "inevitable corruption".
> 
> 
> /Bo Lindbergh

No, course not.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
11/26/2008 9:05:14 AM
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to handle my
> > classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic MacOS games I'm
> > desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
> > 
> > I've tried and failed to get Ballisk and SheepShaver running. Mini vMac
> > runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
> > both it and OSX.
> > 
> > *sigh*
> 
> SheepShaver runs okay here on my Mac Pro. How did it fail for you?

SS and Basilisk crashed at various resolutions and upon running most old
games I wished to run, e.g MOO2 which I have now bought for the PC and
run in DOSBox. But I wish I could still run Mac only games like
Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive.

May I ask how you got SS to run well? What ROM/MacOS version? What
software do you commonly run?

> > Has anyone had any sucess? Why is classic Mac emulation so way behind
> > other emulation efforts? With Amiga emulation running it's surprising
> > classic Mac emulation is so far behind :-(
> 
> Probably because not many people care, unfortunately!

I suppose :-(
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
11/26/2008 9:05:16 AM
In article <1ir195l.104qinqe1ifb8N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > 
> > > Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to handle my
> > > classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic MacOS games I'm
> > > desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
> > > 
> > > I've tried and failed to get Ballisk and SheepShaver running. Mini vMac
> > > runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
> > > both it and OSX.
> > > 
> > > *sigh*
> > 
> > SheepShaver runs okay here on my Mac Pro. How did it fail for you?
> 
> SS and Basilisk crashed at various resolutions and upon running most old
> games I wished to run, e.g MOO2 which I have now bought for the PC and
> run in DOSBox. But I wish I could still run Mac only games like
> Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive.
> 
> May I ask how you got SS to run well? What ROM/MacOS version? What
> software do you commonly run?
> 

Try <http://macwp.com/files/SS-WP%201.1.zip>.  It's an implementation 
that supports shared folders between OS 9 and Mac OS.

-- 
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint =  5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3  7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF
0
Tom
11/26/2008 12:01:48 PM
In article <1ir195l.104qinqe1ifb8N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > 
> > > Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to handle my
> > > classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic MacOS games I'm
> > > desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
> > > 
> > > I've tried and failed to get Ballisk and SheepShaver running. Mini vMac
> > > runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
> > > both it and OSX.
> > > 
> > > *sigh*
> > 
> > SheepShaver runs okay here on my Mac Pro. How did it fail for you?
> 
> SS and Basilisk crashed at various resolutions and upon running most old
> games I wished to run, e.g MOO2 which I have now bought for the PC and
> run in DOSBox. But I wish I could still run Mac only games like
> Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive.

Ok so SheepShaver did run. You just couldn't get specific games working 
in it.  There's a big difference between the two!

> May I ask how you got SS to run well? 

I just set it up with 1024x768 running a ROM from my PowerMac G3 and Mac 
OS 9.01. I have to admit I haven't tried running any games in it.  

> What ROM/MacOS version? 

This one:

<http://preview.tinyurl.com/6r24pr>

> What software do you commonly run?

To be honest, nothing anymore. I still have it installed, but haven't 
booted it up in months. But I did use it to run Adobe FrameMaker for 
hours on end. It did crash occasionally, but I was able to get work 
done, which is the main thing.

I think you're probably going to have more problems with games than you 
would with other types of applications, because game developers 
routinely cut corners in classic Mac OS to get better performance or do 
things in ways Apple's APIs don't support directly.

-- 
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR
0
Jolly
11/26/2008 2:53:48 PM
Tom Stiller <tom_stiller@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <1ir195l.104qinqe1ifb8N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to handle my
> > > > classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic MacOS games I'm
> > > > desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
> > > > 
> > > > I've tried and failed to get Ballisk and SheepShaver running. Mini vMac
> > > > runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
> > > > both it and OSX.
> > > > 
> > > > *sigh*
> > > 
> > > SheepShaver runs okay here on my Mac Pro. How did it fail for you?
> > 
> > SS and Basilisk crashed at various resolutions and upon running most old
> > games I wished to run, e.g MOO2 which I have now bought for the PC and
> > run in DOSBox. But I wish I could still run Mac only games like
> > Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive.
> > 
> > May I ask how you got SS to run well? What ROM/MacOS version? What
> > software do you commonly run?
> > 
> 
> Try <http://macwp.com/files/SS-WP%201.1.zip>.  It's an implementation
> that supports shared folders between OS 9 and Mac OS.

I'll give it a go, thanks.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
11/27/2008 1:36:03 AM
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <1ir195l.104qinqe1ifb8N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to handle my
> > > > classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic MacOS games I'm
> > > > desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
> > > > 
> > > > I've tried and failed to get Ballisk and SheepShaver running. Mini vMac
> > > > runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
> > > > both it and OSX.
> > > > 
> > > > *sigh*
> > > 
> > > SheepShaver runs okay here on my Mac Pro. How did it fail for you?
> > 
> > SS and Basilisk crashed at various resolutions and upon running most old
> > games I wished to run, e.g MOO2 which I have now bought for the PC and
> > run in DOSBox. But I wish I could still run Mac only games like
> > Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive.
> 
> Ok so SheepShaver did run. You just couldn't get specific games working
> in it.  There's a big difference between the two!

Booting sucessfully is one thing. Running an app without crashing is
another.

> > May I ask how you got SS to run well? 
> 
> I just set it up with 1024x768 running a ROM from my PowerMac G3 and Mac
> OS 9.01. I have to admit I haven't tried running any games in it.  

Yeah, sadly that's when it all fell apart for me.

> > What ROM/MacOS version? 
> 
> This one:
> 
> <http://preview.tinyurl.com/6r24pr>

Cheers JR, I'll give them a go! :-)

> > What software do you commonly run?
> 
> To be honest, nothing anymore. I still have it installed, but haven't
> booted it up in months. But I did use it to run Adobe FrameMaker for 
> hours on end. It did crash occasionally, but I was able to get work 
> done, which is the main thing.
> 
> I think you're probably going to have more problems with games than you
> would with other types of applications, because game developers 
> routinely cut corners in classic Mac OS to get better performance or do
> things in ways Apple's APIs don't support directly.

I guess. Well, I'll give your ROMs a go and hope they work out better
for me.

Cheers,
 Jamie Kahn Genet
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
11/27/2008 1:36:05 AM
On Nov 27, 1:01=A0am, Tom Stiller <tom_stil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <1ir195l.104qinqe1ifb8N%jami...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> =A0jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (JamieKahnGenet) wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jolly Roger <jollyro...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > > In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jami...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > > =A0jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (JamieKahnGenet) wrote:
>
> > > > Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to handl=
e my
> > > > classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic MacOS game=
s I'm
> > > > desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
>
> > > > I've tried and failed to get Ballisk andSheepShaverrunning. Mini vM=
ac
> > > > runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened=
 in
> > > > both it and OSX.
>
> > > > *sigh*
>
> > >SheepShaverruns okay here on my Mac Pro. How did it fail for you?
>
> > SS and Basilisk crashed at various resolutions and upon running most ol=
d
> > games I wished to run, e.g MOO2 which I have now bought for the PC and
> > run in DOSBox. But I wish I could still run Mac only games like
> > Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive.
>
> > May I ask how you got SS to run well? What ROM/MacOS version? What
> > software do you commonly run?
>
> Try <http://macwp.com/files/SS-WP%201.1.zip>. =A0It's an implementation
> that supports shared folders between OS 9 and Mac OS.

Nope, it's broken - I get <http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?
image=3Dpicture94tm3.png> no matter how many times I run Disk Utility on
the image. DU finds no errors BTW. I'm surprised this was never tested
before release.
0
jamiekg
12/19/2008 10:59:41 AM
<jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> On Nov 27, 1:01 am, Tom Stiller <tom_stil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > In article <1ir195l.104qinqe1ifb8N%jami...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> >  jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (JamieKahnGenet) wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Jolly Roger <jollyro...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jami...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > > >  jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (JamieKahnGenet) wrote:
> >
> > > > > Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to
> > > > > handle my classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic
> > > > > MacOS games I'm desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
> >
> > > > > I've tried and failed to get Ballisk andSheepShaverrunning. Mini vMac
> > > > > runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened in
> > > > > both it and OSX.
> >
> > > > > *sigh*
> >
> > > >SheepShaverruns okay here on my Mac Pro. How did it fail for you?
> >
> > > SS and Basilisk crashed at various resolutions and upon running most old
> > > games I wished to run, e.g MOO2 which I have now bought for the PC and
> > > run in DOSBox. But I wish I could still run Mac only games like
> > > Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive.
> >
> > > May I ask how you got SS to run well? What ROM/MacOS version? What
> > > software do you commonly run?
> >
> > Try <http://macwp.com/files/SS-WP%201.1.zip>.  It's an implementation
> > that supports shared folders between OS 9 and Mac OS.

Nope, it's broken - I get <http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?
image=picture94tm3.png> no matter how many times I run Disk Utility on
the image. DU finds no errors BTW. I'm surprised this was never tested
before release.

P.S. Excuse the doubleposting. I tried GG first cause I was away from
home - yuck! It didn't seem to work, but later the post showed up. Oh
well, at least people who don't wisely filter GG posts will now see it.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
12/19/2008 11:35:04 AM
In article <1is8029.1tfygji1jw4igwN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> 
> > On Nov 27, 1:01 am, Tom Stiller <tom_stil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > In article <1ir195l.104qinqe1ifb8N%jami...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > >  jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (JamieKahnGenet) wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Jolly Roger <jollyro...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jami...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > > > >  jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (JamieKahnGenet) wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to
> > > > > > handle my classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic
> > > > > > MacOS games I'm desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
> > >
> > > > > > I've tried and failed to get Ballisk andSheepShaverrunning. Mini 
> > > > > > vMac
> > > > > > runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting disk images opened 
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > both it and OSX.
> > >
> > > > > > *sigh*
> > >
> > > > >SheepShaverruns okay here on my Mac Pro. How did it fail for you?
> > >
> > > > SS and Basilisk crashed at various resolutions and upon running most 
> > > > old
> > > > games I wished to run, e.g MOO2 which I have now bought for the PC and
> > > > run in DOSBox. But I wish I could still run Mac only games like
> > > > Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive.
> > >
> > > > May I ask how you got SS to run well? What ROM/MacOS version? What
> > > > software do you commonly run?
> > >
> > > Try <http://macwp.com/files/SS-WP%201.1.zip>.  It's an implementation
> > > that supports shared folders between OS 9 and Mac OS.
> 
> Nope, it's broken - I get <http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?
> image=picture94tm3.png> no matter how many times I run Disk Utility on
> the image. DU finds no errors BTW. I'm surprised this was never tested
> before release.
> 
> P.S. Excuse the doubleposting. I tried GG first cause I was away from
> home - yuck! It didn't seem to work, but later the post showed up. Oh
> well, at least people who don't wisely filter GG posts will now see it.
> -- 
> If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Just dismiss that particular error and delete the associated script from 
the startup items folder. It works fine.

Andr�
0
Ymir
12/19/2008 4:24:38 PM
In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> *sigh*
> 
> Has anyone had any sucess?


Yes, I have Sheepshaver running fine. It runs Pro Pinball better than 
Classic- no hiccups at all.  

It boots OS9 quickly and connects to my OSX folders.

Only thing my laptop fan runs constantly so I fear it may be heating up 
the processor too much.

-- 
m-m
http://www.mhmyers.com
0
M
12/19/2008 6:53:14 PM
Ymir <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> In article <1is8029.1tfygji1jw4igwN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Nov 27, 1:01 am, Tom Stiller <tom_stil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > In article <1ir195l.104qinqe1ifb8N%jami...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > > >  jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (JamieKahnGenet) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Jolly Roger <jollyro...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jami...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > > > > >  jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (JamieKahnGenet) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > Despite switching to DOSBox and VMware's Fusion with WinXP to
> > > > > > > handle my classic gaming needs, there are still a bunch of classic
> > > > > > > MacOS games I'm desperate to run on my Intel Mac.
> > > >
> > > > > > > I've tried and failed to get Ballisk andSheepShaverrunning.
> > > > > > > Mini vMac runs but has a nasty, nasty habbit of corrupting
> > > > > > > disk images opened in both it and OSX.
> > > >
> > > > > > > *sigh*
> > > >
> > > > > >SheepShaverruns okay here on my Mac Pro. How did it fail for you?
> > > >
> > > > > SS and Basilisk crashed at various resolutions and upon running
> > > > > most old games I wished to run, e.g MOO2 which I have now bought
> > > > > for the PC and run in DOSBox. But I wish I could still run Mac
> > > > > only games like Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive.
> > > >
> > > > > May I ask how you got SS to run well? What ROM/MacOS version? What
> > > > > software do you commonly run?
> > > >
> > > > Try <http://macwp.com/files/SS-WP%201.1.zip>.  It's an implementation
> > > > that supports shared folders between OS 9 and Mac OS.
> > 
> > Nope, it's broken - I get <http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?
> > image=picture94tm3.png> no matter how many times I run Disk Utility on
> > the image. DU finds no errors BTW. I'm surprised this was never tested
> > before release.
> > 
> > P.S. Excuse the doubleposting. I tried GG first cause I was away from
> > home - yuck! It didn't seem to work, but later the post showed up. Oh
> > well, at least people who don't wisely filter GG posts will now see it.
> > -- 
> > If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
> 
> Just dismiss that particular error and delete the associated script from
> the startup items folder. It works fine.
> 
> Andr�

NM, it turns out using Stuffit Expander v13 to decompress the zip file
damages the DMG image. Weird but true. Don't ask me why I was using
Stuffit which I know sucks. Using OSX's archive utility worked fine. No
errors now.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
12/19/2008 10:05:49 PM
M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:

> In article <1ir0ubk.1do5ism18148vsN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > *sigh*
> > 
> > Has anyone had any sucess?
> 
> 
> Yes, I have Sheepshaver running fine. It runs Pro Pinball better than
> Classic- no hiccups at all.  
> 
> It boots OS9 quickly and connects to my OSX folders.
> 
> Only thing my laptop fan runs constantly so I fear it may be heating up
> the processor too much.

Huh - it couldn't run Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive without
major stuttering on my 2.8GHz Intel 24" iMac. How are you getting such
good performance? As for classic - it was much better than SS - of
course that was on PPC Macs.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
12/19/2008 10:05:51 PM
In article <1is8uoz.1e0ilgx185fbirN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> Huh - it couldn't run Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive without
> major stuttering on my 2.8GHz Intel 24" iMac. How are you getting such
> good performance? As for classic - it was much better than SS - of
> course that was on PPC Macs.



In the SS GUI, go to the "Graphics/Sound" tab and change the refresh 
rate to 60 Hz.

I'll bet that fixes it.


-- 
m-m
http://www.mhmyers.com
0
M
12/20/2008 4:38:03 AM
M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:

> In article <1is8uoz.1e0ilgx185fbirN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > Huh - it couldn't run Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive without
> > major stuttering on my 2.8GHz Intel 24" iMac. How are you getting such
> > good performance? As for classic - it was much better than SS - of
> > course that was on PPC Macs.
> 
> 
> 
> In the SS GUI, go to the "Graphics/Sound" tab and change the refresh 
> rate to 60 Hz.
> 
> I'll bet that fixes it.

Afraid not. It still stutters badly and can't even play Harry's music
smoothly which I guess shouldn't surprise me given SS uses 20% of my CPU
just doping nothing. If that's what it takes to run the clock in System
7.5's menubar I don't think games are realistic for me :-( What machine
are you running SS on?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
12/20/2008 9:24:51 AM
In article <1is9ps9.1pn0t5g1q2o8alN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1is8uoz.1e0ilgx185fbirN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > 
> > > Huh - it couldn't run Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive without
> > > major stuttering on my 2.8GHz Intel 24" iMac. How are you getting such
> > > good performance? As for classic - it was much better than SS - of
> > > course that was on PPC Macs.
> > 
> > In the SS GUI, go to the "Graphics/Sound" tab and change the refresh 
> > rate to 60 Hz.
> > 
> > I'll bet that fixes it.
> 
> Afraid not. It still stutters badly and can't even play Harry's music
> smoothly which I guess shouldn't surprise me given SS uses 20% of my CPU
> just doping nothing. If that's what it takes to run the clock in System
> 7.5's menubar I don't think games are realistic for me :-( What machine
> are you running SS on?

Couldn't you save yourself all this headache by simply buying a cheap, 
used classic Mac on eBay to play these old games?

-- 
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR
0
Jolly
12/20/2008 10:01:28 AM
In article <1is9ps9.1pn0t5g1q2o8alN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1is8uoz.1e0ilgx185fbirN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > 
> > > Huh - it couldn't run Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive without
> > > major stuttering on my 2.8GHz Intel 24" iMac. How are you getting such
> > > good performance? As for classic - it was much better than SS - of
> > > course that was on PPC Macs.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > In the SS GUI, go to the "Graphics/Sound" tab and change the refresh 
> > rate to 60 Hz.
> > 
> > I'll bet that fixes it.
> 
> Afraid not. It still stutters badly and can't even play Harry's music
> smoothly which I guess shouldn't surprise me given SS uses 20% of my CPU
> just doping nothing. If that's what it takes to run the clock in System
> 7.5's menubar I don't think games are realistic for me :-( What machine
> are you running SS on?


I run it on a MacBook (2.16 gHz/ 1 gb RAM) and a MBPro. 
I got so much stuttering in ProPinball in Classic it was unusable. It 
works quite well in SS although the fan is blasting.

-- 
m-m
http://www.mhmyers.com
0
M
12/20/2008 12:05:39 PM
In article <1is9ps9.1pn0t5g1q2o8alN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

>  It still stutters badly and can't even play Harry's music
> smoothly which I guess shouldn't surprise me

I downloaded a trial version and it seems to run fine. The music sounds 
a bit choppy though,



-- 
m-m
http://www.mhmyers.com
0
M
12/20/2008 12:50:52 PM
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <1is9ps9.1pn0t5g1q2o8alN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <1is8uoz.1e0ilgx185fbirN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Huh - it couldn't run Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive without
> > > > major stuttering on my 2.8GHz Intel 24" iMac. How are you getting such
> > > > good performance? As for classic - it was much better than SS - of
> > > > course that was on PPC Macs.
> > > 
> > > In the SS GUI, go to the "Graphics/Sound" tab and change the refresh
> > > rate to 60 Hz.
> > > 
> > > I'll bet that fixes it.
> > 
> > Afraid not. It still stutters badly and can't even play Harry's music
> > smoothly which I guess shouldn't surprise me given SS uses 20% of my CPU
> > just doping nothing. If that's what it takes to run the clock in System
> > 7.5's menubar I don't think games are realistic for me :-( What machine
> > are you running SS on?
> 
> Couldn't you save yourself all this headache by simply buying a cheap,
> used classic Mac on eBay to play these old games?

True, even though the secondhand market here in NZ sucks it might be
worth doing just that *sigh*
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
12/20/2008 2:24:38 PM
Jolly Roger wrote:
  > Couldn't you save yourself all this headache by simply buying a cheap,
> used classic Mac on eBay to play these old games?

I'll _give_ you a working Quadra if you're willing to
pay USA to New Zealand shipping.  :-)

-- 
Wes Groleau

Free speech has its limits
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=99
0
Wes
12/20/2008 2:30:18 PM
M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:

> In article <1is9ps9.1pn0t5g1q2o8alN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> >  It still stutters badly and can't even play Harry's music
> > smoothly which I guess shouldn't surprise me
> 
> I downloaded a trial version and it seems to run fine. The music sounds
> a bit choppy though,

The ruined music is bad enough - just try running into a memo. As soon
as you interact with anything you get a major slowdown :-(
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
12/20/2008 3:26:11 PM
Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:

> Jolly Roger wrote:
>   > Couldn't you save yourself all this headache by simply buying a cheap,
> > used classic Mac on eBay to play these old games?
> 
> I'll _give_ you a working Quadra if you're willing to
> pay USA to New Zealand shipping.  :-)

Heh, that's okay. I need to buy another CRT iMac or the like - something
that can run 8.6 (most compatible classic MacOS IME) and is fairly
speedy, yet inexpensive. If I hadn't already burnt through two CRT iMacs
already I'd be more keen. Both of mine died in the same month :-(

Thank you for the cool offer, though! *makes things worse for self by
asking* Just out of curiosity, which model Quadra is it?

Regards,
 Jamie Kahn Genet
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
12/20/2008 3:36:17 PM
In article <1isa6xf.4jvl9l1gnbapN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> The ruined music is bad enough - just try running into a memo. As soon
> as you interact with anything you get a major slowdown :-(


I did not find that. The music wasn't *that* bad but I turned it off 
anyhow. No other problems but I just gave it a little spin.

-- 
m-m
http://www.mhmyers.com
0
M
12/20/2008 4:55:57 PM
In article <1isa6zz.1y80go5k210pbN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
> 
> > Jolly Roger wrote:
> >   > Couldn't you save yourself all this headache by simply buying a cheap,
> > > used classic Mac on eBay to play these old games?
> > 
> > I'll _give_ you a working Quadra if you're willing to
> > pay USA to New Zealand shipping.  :-)
> 
> Heh, that's okay. I need to buy another CRT iMac or the like - something
> that can run 8.6 (most compatible classic MacOS IME) and is fairly
> speedy, yet inexpensive. If I hadn't already burnt through two CRT iMacs
> already I'd be more keen. Both of mine died in the same month :-(
> 
> Thank you for the cool offer, though! *makes things worse for self by
> asking* Just out of curiosity, which model Quadra is it?
> 
> Regards,
>  Jamie Kahn Genet

....I loved my Quadras!! *reminiscing*

-- 
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR
0
Jolly
12/20/2008 5:26:57 PM
In article <1isa3cl.1vb5om939efikN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1is9ps9.1pn0t5g1q2o8alN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > 
> > > M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > In article <1is8uoz.1e0ilgx185fbirN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > > >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Huh - it couldn't run Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive without
> > > > > major stuttering on my 2.8GHz Intel 24" iMac. How are you getting such
> > > > > good performance? As for classic - it was much better than SS - of
> > > > > course that was on PPC Macs.
> > > > 
> > > > In the SS GUI, go to the "Graphics/Sound" tab and change the refresh
> > > > rate to 60 Hz.
> > > > 
> > > > I'll bet that fixes it.
> > > 
> > > Afraid not. It still stutters badly and can't even play Harry's music
> > > smoothly which I guess shouldn't surprise me given SS uses 20% of my CPU
> > > just doping nothing. If that's what it takes to run the clock in System
> > > 7.5's menubar I don't think games are realistic for me :-( What machine
> > > are you running SS on?
> > 
> > Couldn't you save yourself all this headache by simply buying a cheap,
> > used classic Mac on eBay to play these old games?
> 
> True, even though the secondhand market here in NZ sucks it might be
> worth doing just that *sigh*

I love having older macs around for just this sort of thing. If I had 
more room, I'd probably set up a sort of Mac museum room here!  : D

-- 
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR
0
Jolly
12/20/2008 5:28:10 PM
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <1isa6zz.1y80go5k210pbN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > Jolly Roger wrote:
> > >   > Couldn't you save yourself all this headache by simply buying a cheap,
> > > > used classic Mac on eBay to play these old games?
> > > 
> > > I'll _give_ you a working Quadra if you're willing to
> > > pay USA to New Zealand shipping.  :-)
> > 
> > Heh, that's okay. I need to buy another CRT iMac or the like - something
> > that can run 8.6 (most compatible classic MacOS IME) and is fairly
> > speedy, yet inexpensive. If I hadn't already burnt through two CRT iMacs
> > already I'd be more keen. Both of mine died in the same month :-(
> > 
> > Thank you for the cool offer, though! *makes things worse for self by
> > asking* Just out of curiosity, which model Quadra is it?
> > 
> > Regards,
> >  Jamie Kahn Genet
> 
> ...I loved my Quadras!! *reminiscing*

I have and old Quadra 700 without HD or RAM and it's unkown whether it
runs. I also had a Quadra 900 or maybe 950 - I forget. But NZ Post
destroyed in during transit :-( The jerks said I'd not packaged it well
enough for compensation, but they DROPPED it from several feet. There is
no other way the case could have been fractured so badly. Not even
styrofoam could have saved it from some damage in that instance (I'd
used a couple layers of bubblewrap and thich cardboard).

Still, what's really needed here is a PPC Mac that can run 8.6 or at the
very least 9.x. On the off chance a fellow kiwi has such a Mac, please
get in contact.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
12/21/2008 4:57:33 AM
Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> Thank you for the cool offer, though! *makes things worse for self by
> asking* Just out of curiosity, which model Quadra is it?

Hmmm, I'll have to wade through all the other nostalgic clutter to 
check.  I _think_ it's a 25 MHz 68030.

-- 
Wes Groleau

    "There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over."
                                  -- Larry Wall
0
Wes
12/22/2008 2:58:04 AM
Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:

> Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> > Thank you for the cool offer, though! *makes things worse for self by
> > asking* Just out of curiosity, which model Quadra is it?
> 
> Hmmm, I'll have to wade through all the other nostalgic clutter to 
> check.  I _think_ it's a 25 MHz 68030.

You mean '040?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
12/22/2008 3:56:51 AM
In article <1is9ps9.1pn0t5g1q2o8alN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1is8uoz.1e0ilgx185fbirN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > 
> > > Huh - it couldn't run Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive without
> > > major stuttering on my 2.8GHz Intel 24" iMac. How are you getting such
> > > good performance? As for classic - it was much better than SS - of
> > > course that was on PPC Macs.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > In the SS GUI, go to the "Graphics/Sound" tab and change the refresh 
> > rate to 60 Hz.
> > 
> > I'll bet that fixes it.
> 
> Afraid not. It still stutters badly and can't even play Harry's music
> smoothly which I guess shouldn't surprise me given SS uses 20% of my CPU
> just doping nothing. If that's what it takes to run the clock in System
> 7.5's menubar I don't think games are realistic for me :-( What machine
> are you running SS on?

Sorry to be so late to the party. I've had SS running on my 1.8 Ghz 
MacBook for a long time, where it's done a wonderful job with "Vellum" 
(which requires the "SoftwareFPU" control panel), but stuttered badly on 
games. After learning on this thread that some folks didn't have the 
stutter problem, I went poking and found a much newer version of SS 
which solves most of the problems (I still can't use the music on 
"Greebles").


Google on "SheepShaver_UB_210708.zip"


I didn't do a reinstall; I just substituted the new version of SS for 
the old; it was perfectly happy with the existing .prefs file.

Now I can play Pro Pinball again!

Does anybody know a fix for the mouse problem in Ambrosia's "Apeiron"?

Isaac
0
isw
12/22/2008 6:32:20 PM
isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:

> In article <1is9ps9.1pn0t5g1q2o8alN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <1is8uoz.1e0ilgx185fbirN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > >  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Huh - it couldn't run Ambrosia's Harry the Handsome Executive without
> > > > major stuttering on my 2.8GHz Intel 24" iMac. How are you getting such
> > > > good performance? As for classic - it was much better than SS - of
> > > > course that was on PPC Macs.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > In the SS GUI, go to the "Graphics/Sound" tab and change the refresh
> > > rate to 60 Hz.
> > > 
> > > I'll bet that fixes it.
> > 
> > Afraid not. It still stutters badly and can't even play Harry's music
> > smoothly which I guess shouldn't surprise me given SS uses 20% of my CPU
> > just doping nothing. If that's what it takes to run the clock in System
> > 7.5's menubar I don't think games are realistic for me :-( What machine
> > are you running SS on?
> 
> Sorry to be so late to the party. I've had SS running on my 1.8 Ghz 
> MacBook for a long time, where it's done a wonderful job with "Vellum"
> (which requires the "SoftwareFPU" control panel), but stuttered badly on
> games. After learning on this thread that some folks didn't have the 
> stutter problem, I went poking and found a much newer version of SS 
> which solves most of the problems (I still can't use the music on 
> "Greebles").
> 
> 
> Google on "SheepShaver_UB_210708.zip"

Cheers dude, I'll give it a go! :-)

> I didn't do a reinstall; I just substituted the new version of SS for
> the old; it was perfectly happy with the existing .prefs file.
> 
> Now I can play Pro Pinball again!
> 
> Does anybody know a fix for the mouse problem in Ambrosia's "Apeiron"?
> 
> Isaac

Mouse problem? Hmmm... earlier versions of Apeiron would not work with
USB mice. Could this be your issue? How is SS handling the mouse? I'm
unsure. Anyone care to chime in?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
0
jamiekg
12/23/2008 5:11:58 AM
Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
>> Hmmm, I'll have to wade through all the other nostalgic clutter to 
>> check.  I _think_ it's a 25 MHz 68030.
> 
> You mean '040?

Not what I meant, but probably what it was.
Pizza box, SCSI CDROM in the middle, floppy on the right,
hard drive on the left, AAUI ethernet in back, power supply behind the 
floppy with a long rod or something from the button in front to the P.S.

-- 
Wes Groleau

   Thinking It Through
   http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=476
0
Wes
12/25/2008 3:27:13 AM
In article l4D4l.987$BC4.6@nwrddc02.gnilink.net, Wes Groleau at
groleau+news@freeshell.org wrote on 12/24/08 10:27 PM:

> Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
>> Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
>>> Hmmm, I'll have to wade through all the other nostalgic clutter to
>>> check.  I _think_ it's a 25 MHz 68030.
>> 
>> You mean '040?
> 
> Not what I meant, but probably what it was.
> Pizza box, SCSI CDROM in the middle, floppy on the right,
> hard drive on the left, AAUI ethernet in back, power supply behind the
> floppy with a long rod or something from the button in front to the P.S.

Yup. '040 ...like my Centris 610.


-- 
iMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) � OS X (10.5.4)

0
Nick
12/25/2008 4:03:34 AM
In article <C5787046.29921%nicknaym@[remove_this].gmail.com>,
 Nick Naym <nicknaym@[remove_this].gmail.com> wrote:

> In article l4D4l.987$BC4.6@nwrddc02.gnilink.net, Wes Groleau at
> groleau+news@freeshell.org wrote on 12/24/08 10:27 PM:
> 
> > Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> >> Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
> >>> Hmmm, I'll have to wade through all the other nostalgic clutter to
> >>> check.  I _think_ it's a 25 MHz 68030.
> >> 
> >> You mean '040?
> > 
> > Not what I meant, but probably what it was.
> > Pizza box, SCSI CDROM in the middle, floppy on the right,
> > hard drive on the left, AAUI ethernet in back, power supply behind the
> > floppy with a long rod or something from the button in front to the P.S.
> 
> Yup. '040 ...like my Centris 610.

Like the 040 without the Math CoProcessor??????
0
You
12/25/2008 10:15:20 PM
In article you-D1E9B7.13160925122008@netnews.worldnet.att.net, You at
you@shadow.orgs wrote on 12/25/08 5:15 PM:

> In article <C5787046.29921%nicknaym@[remove_this].gmail.com>,
>  Nick Naym <nicknaym@[remove_this].gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> In article l4D4l.987$BC4.6@nwrddc02.gnilink.net, Wes Groleau at
>> groleau+news@freeshell.org wrote on 12/24/08 10:27 PM:
>> 
>>> Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
>>>> Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hmmm, I'll have to wade through all the other nostalgic clutter to
>>>>> check.  I _think_ it's a 25 MHz 68030.
>>>> 
>>>> You mean '040?
>>> 
>>> Not what I meant, but probably what it was.
>>> Pizza box, SCSI CDROM in the middle, floppy on the right,
>>> hard drive on the left, AAUI ethernet in back, power supply behind the
>>> floppy with a long rod or something from the button in front to the P.S.
>> 
>> Yup. '040 ...like my Centris 610.
> 
> Like the 040 without the Math CoProcessor??????

That's what Apple was selling at the time.


-- 
iMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) � OS X (10.5.4)

0
Nick
12/25/2008 10:22:00 PM
Reply: