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Mac SE floppy drive

Hello,
I've just saved a Macintosh SE (4 Mb memory and a hard drive) from
the trash (found in my street).  I got only the central unit, but my 
girlfriend has a fried Mac Classic, so she gave me a keyboard and mice.

The thingy boots just okay, system 7 on hard drive, all needed apps
installed.  I was extremely happy, until I tried to put a 1.44 floppy
into its superdrive (information found on the net tells me this one has
a "superdrive" with 1.44 capability, so nice for file transfer to PC)...
It doesn't load !

I'd like to know :
  - normally, should the drive "eat" the floppy with a motor, or
    should it be pushed fully (which it doesn't allow me either) ?
    (before someone asks, yes, I checked that no floppy was already
     inside, no disk is shown on desktop, and the finder's "eject" is
     grayed)
  - is there a chance to replace it (if bad) using the floppy drive
    in my girlfriend's Mac Classic ?

Thanks in advance for your answers !
Fabien.
0
Fa3ien
6/27/2005 1:40:36 PM
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Fa3ien <fabien.mosen@voschaussures.skynet.be> writes:
>
> I've just saved a Macintosh SE (4 Mb memory and a hard drive) from the
> trash (found in my street).  I got only the central unit, but my
> girlfriend has a fried Mac Classic, so she gave me a keyboard and
> mice.
> 
> The thingy boots just okay, system 7 on hard drive, all needed apps
> installed.  I was extremely happy, until I tried to put a 1.44 floppy
> into its superdrive (information found on the net tells me this one
> has a "superdrive" with 1.44 capability, so nice for file transfer to
> PC)...  It doesn't load !

First off, are you sure you have a 1.44M floppy drive and not an 800K
drive?  SE's were sold with both.  If your unit was upgraded from 800K
to 1.44M, then it must also have a ROM upgrade.  Without the ROM
upgrade, the 1.44M drive will be seen as an 800K drive.

The usual symptom of having the wrong kind of drive or the wrong ROM is
that when you insert a 1.44M disk, a box pops up asking you to
initialize the disk.  Your choices are "single sided" or "double sided".
In a 1.44M drive, you won't be given a choice of format.

> I'd like to know :
>   - normally, should the drive "eat" the floppy with a motor, or
>     should it be pushed fully (which it doesn't allow me either) ?
>     (before someone asks, yes, I checked that no floppy was already
>      inside, no disk is shown on desktop, and the finder's "eject" is
>      grayed)

Sounds like a bad drive.  Some drives will grab the disk, others
don't.  But the system should either put a disk-icon on the desktop or
auto-eject the media.  If it does neither, then you've got a problem.

>   - is there a chance to replace it (if bad) using the floppy drive in
>     my girlfriend's Mac Classic ?

I think it will work.  But the replacement might not be that easy.

If I were, you, however, I'd just use the Classic and throw out the
defective SE.  The two systems are very similar, except for:

- You know a Classic has ROMs capable of supporting a 1.44M drive

- The Classic's internal hard drive is larger (unless one of the
  computers has had its drive replaced.)

- The SE has an expansion slot, but you probably don't care about that,
  unless you happen to run across a card to install.  (I managed to
  find an Ethernet card for my SE at a flea market, but don't expect to
  find much for yours.)

- The PRAM battery in a Classic should be in a socket.  Some SE's (early
  model motherboards) have it soldered down, which will be a problem
  when it needs to be replaced.

Technically, the SE is a superior system, but they two systems are
functionally identical.  Use the one that works.  Don't take working
parts from a working Classic in order to try and fix an SE that might
have a lot more problems that you haven't yet discovered.

-- David
0
shamino
6/27/2005 4:08:39 PM
In article <m2irzzn5o8.fsf@qqqq.invalid>, shamino@techie.com (David C.) 
wrote:

> - The SE has an expansion slot, but you probably don't care about that,
>   unless you happen to run across a card to install.  (I managed to
>   find an Ethernet card for my SE at a flea market, but don't expect to
>   find much for yours.)

I might be willing to part with my Orange Micro 8086 card....

But then I agree with this:

> Technically, the SE is a superior system, but they two systems are
> functionally identical.  Use the one that works.  Don't take working
> parts from a working Classic in order to try and fix an SE that might
> have a lot more problems that you haven't yet discovered.

G

-- 
Goal 2005: Convincing James Hetfield to cover the Strawberry Shortcake
"Are You Berry Berry Happy?" song.
0
Gregory
6/27/2005 8:35:09 PM
David C. a �crit :

> First off, are you sure you have a 1.44M floppy drive and not an 800K
> drive?  SE's were sold with both.  If your unit was upgraded from 800K
> to 1.44M, then it must also have a ROM upgrade.  Without the ROM
> upgrade, the 1.44M drive will be seen as an 800K drive.

I am not 100% sure it's a 1.44 drive.  Various info gathered on the net
and on the machine itself lend me to think that a Mac SE with a hard
drive and 4 Mb memory should have a 1.44 floppy.  But I might be wrong.
Is there any way to be sure of which drive is in ?

> If I were, you, however, I'd just use the Classic and throw out the
> defective SE.  The two systems are very similar, except for:

The Classic, according to my girlfriend, has been fried by feeding
it 220v, instead of the 110v it needed !  Now, maybe it's just a fuse
to replace, otherwise it's much worse...  I'm gonna inspect the Classic
before going any further.

> - The SE has an expansion slot, but you probably don't care about that,
>   unless you happen to run across a card to install.  (I managed to
>   find an Ethernet card for my SE at a flea market, but don't expect to
>   find much for yours.)

In fact, I only need floppy to transfer files to my PC (I intend to do
small wordprocessing tasks with the SE, if transfer is possible), so,
a transfer through a serial cable would do the trick.  But is there
a serial file transfer utility coming with system 7 ?

Thanks for your answers.

Fabien.
0
Fa3ien
6/28/2005 3:28:21 PM
Fa3ien writes:
> David C. a �crit :
>>
>> First off, are you sure you have a 1.44M floppy drive and not an 800K
>> drive?  SE's were sold with both.  If your unit was upgraded from
>> 800K to 1.44M, then it must also have a ROM upgrade.  Without the ROM
>> upgrade, the 1.44M drive will be seen as an 800K drive.
> 
> I am not 100% sure it's a 1.44 drive.  Various info gathered on the
> net and on the machine itself lend me to think that a Mac SE with a
> hard drive and 4 Mb memory should have a 1.44 floppy.  But I might be
> wrong.  Is there any way to be sure of which drive is in ?

If it came from the factory with a 1.44M drive, then the label on the
back of the case will say so.

If it was upgraded, then the label will be wrong.

If you have a 1.44M drive, but not the ROMs, there will be no way to
tell via software.

>> If I were, you, however, I'd just use the Classic and throw out the
>> defective SE.  The two systems are very similar, except for:
>
> The Classic, according to my girlfriend, has been fried by feeding it
> 220v, instead of the 110v it needed !  Now, maybe it's just a fuse to
> replace, otherwise it's much worse...  I'm gonna inspect the Classic
> before going any further.
> 
>> - The SE has an expansion slot, but you probably don't care about
>>   that, unless you happen to run across a card to install.  (I
>>   managed to find an Ethernet card for my SE at a flea market, but
>>   don't expect to find much for yours.)
> 
> In fact, I only need floppy to transfer files to my PC (I intend to do
> small wordprocessing tasks with the SE, if transfer is possible), so,
> a transfer through a serial cable would do the trick.  But is there a
> serial file transfer utility coming with system 7 ?

OK.

If you only need to transfer files to a PC, the you don't need Apple's
floppy drive.  You can use any SCSI-based removeable-media drive (could
be floppy, Zip or even a hard drive.)  While you might need driver
software, that's not necessarily hard to find.  I think the PC Exchange
control panel has a built-in driver that you can use if you have nothing
else.  SCSI drives are harder to find today than in the recent past, but
you can still get them if you look hard enough.

A serial cable with a null-modem adapter will work.  You'll need to use
a serial file-transfer protocol like ZMODEM.  You can download ZTerm
for the Mac side.  I'm not sure what you can use on the PC side (back
in the MS-DOS days, I'd recomment Procomm Plus, but I don't know if
they still make it anymore.  Hyperterminal, which comes with Windows,
might work.)

LocalTalk (an AppleTalk-based network that attaches to Mac serial
ports) will also work, and will be easier.  All Macs with built-in
serial ports support this.  Once upon a time, you could get interfaces
and sofware for PC's to support it, but I don't know if you can get
that anymore.

If you can find an Ethernet interface (could attach to the SE's PDS slot
or to the SCSI port), you can use that.  That's generally how I get
files into and out of my SE.  I usually run Fetch to transfer files via
FTP.

-- David
0
shamino
6/28/2005 9:01:07 PM
Fabien wrote:
<< In fact, I only need floppy to transfer files to my PC (I intend to do
small wordprocessing tasks with the SE, if transfer is possible), so, a
transfer through a serial cable would do the trick.  But is there a serial
file transfer utility coming with system 7 ? >>

The earliest SE's came with a built in hard drive and an 800k floppy. There
was a later SE that did indeed come with the 1.4mb floppy drive.

The earlier version was called, simply, the Macintosh SE:
<http://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_classic/stats/mac_se.html>

The later version was called the Macintosh SE FDHD (for "floppy drive high density"):
<http://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_classic/stats/mac_se_fdhd.html>

I think the later versions were marked "FDHD" on the front of the case.

If the SE that _you_ have doesn't have the "FDHD" designation, chances are
it's one of the 800k floppy drive versions. Older SE's could be upgraded, but
one had to replace not only the drive but the SE's ROM chips as well, if I recall.

If you have the 800k version, I believe you're out of luck for transferring
data via floppy disks from the SE to a PC. Although the Apple File Exchange
utility supported DOS-formatted disks in the SE, you had to have the 1.44mb
floppy drive with which to do this. I don't believe the 800k drive was
compatible with it at all, it used a different formatting system that was
incompatible with DOS formatting. (I could be wrong, it's been years and the
memory gets fuzzy.)

Wish I had better news to offer...

- John
0
John
6/29/2005 4:09:25 AM
John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> writes:
> 
> The earliest SE's came with a built in hard drive and an 800k
> floppy. There was a later SE that did indeed come with the 1.4mb
> floppy drive.

The first-gen SEs came in two different configurations.  One with two
internal 800K floppy drives, and one with a single drive an a 20M hard
drive.

> The later version was called the Macintosh SE FDHD (for "floppy drive high density"):
> <http://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_classic/stats/mac_se_fdhd.html>
> 
> I think the later versions were marked "FDHD" on the front of the case.

Yes.  The ones that came from the factory did say this on the front.
They also said so on the label on the back panel.

> If the SE that _you_ have doesn't have the "FDHD" designation, chances
> are it's one of the 800k floppy drive versions. Older SE's could be
> upgraded, but one had to replace not only the drive but the SE's ROM
> chips as well, if I recall.

I've done this upgrade.  Transferring the two ROM chips is necessary.
If you just install a 1.44M drive without the ROMs, the system will not
act as if you have an 800K drive and won't recognize the 1.44M format.

> If you have the 800k version, I believe you're out of luck for
> transferring data via floppy disks from the SE to a PC. Although the
> Apple File Exchange utility supported DOS-formatted disks in the SE,
> you had to have the 1.44mb floppy drive with which to do this. I don't
> believe the 800k drive was compatible with it at all, it used a
> different formatting system that was incompatible with DOS
> formatting. (I could be wrong, it's been years and the memory gets
> fuzzy.)

A stock 800K drive can not write any PC formats.

Once upon a time, you could get a dongle called "Rapport" (which
attached to the external drive port) that would (among other things)
allow an 800K drive to read/write a PC-compatible 720K disk.

But even if you don't have a 1.44M drive, you can still transfer files
via a SCSI drive (floppy, Zip, hard drive, etc.)

-- David
0
shamino
6/29/2005 4:41:12 PM
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