There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.

Then it said he activated the program remotely,
to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
caught.

My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
or what?


--
Rich

In article
<00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
> 
> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
> caught.
> 
> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
> or what?

the original owner had anti-theft software was installed. when the
macbook was stolen, he reported it which activated the phoning home.
there are a few products that can do this.

On 6/3/11 5:13 PM, in article
00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com, "RichD"
<r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
> 
> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
> caught.
> 
> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
> or what?
> 
> 
> --
> Rich

Welcome to the Mac forums Rich!

Here is how...

<http://hiddenapp.com/>

Sorry, not available for crappy PeeCees.

BTW: I thought disliked Apple (along with most everything else, LOL)?

"RichD" <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
| There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
| stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
| snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
|
| Then it said he activated the program remotely,
| to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
| caught.
|
| My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
| 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
| or what?

Why?  Do you have a stolen Mac? 

In article 
<00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
 RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
> 
> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
> caught.
> 
> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
> or what?
> 
> 
> --
> Rich

As soon as laptop is connected to the internet, the pre-installed 
anti-theft software checks in with the anti-theft database on the 
server.  If it's flagged as stolen or "track me", then certain 
pre-installed services are turned on.  The network and camera report 
information on the IP address to the anti-theft site.  I don't know if 
laptops have any sort of GPS like an iTouch or iPhone, so that may be 
also tracked.  If WiFi network is used, there's probably additional info 
that can be added to the database.  AFAIK, you can't install this 
software after the fact.

If the thief had just pulled the hard drive or booted off a MacOS 
install media and reformatted the drive and reinstalled the OS, there 
wouldn't have been a problem.  The pre-installed tracking software would 
have been gone.  AFAIK, there's nothing in any of the boot PROMs on 
either Macintosh or PC that does this sort of tracking without software.  
And you have to connect to the Internet to send information back.

This sort of anti-theft software has been around for a while now.  A 
school system used it to spy on their students getting the VP and head 
of IT fired for invading the privacy of the students and the school 
district sued by the parents of the student that uncovered the spying.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

On 6/3/11 6:32 PM, in article
4de96f33$0$89993$c30e37c6@exi-reader.telstra.net, "robin"
<robin51@dodo.mapson.com.au> wrote:

> "RichD" <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> | There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
> | stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
> | snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
> |
> | Then it said he activated the program remotely,
> | to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
> | caught.
> |
> | My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
> | 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
> | or what?
> 
> Why?  Do you have a stolen Mac?
> 
> 


LOL! Good one!

On 6/3/11 6:42 PM, in article
vilain-E96EAD.16420203062011@news.individual.net, "Michael Vilain"
<vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> In article 
> <00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>  RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
>> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
>> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
>> 
>> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
>> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
>> caught.
>> 
>> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
>> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
>> or what?
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Rich
> 
> As soon as laptop is connected to the internet, the pre-installed
> anti-theft software checks in with the anti-theft database on the
> server.  If it's flagged as stolen or "track me", then certain
> pre-installed services are turned on.  The network and camera report
> information on the IP address to the anti-theft site.  I don't know if
> laptops have any sort of GPS like an iTouch or iPhone, so that may be
> also tracked.  If WiFi network is used, there's probably additional info
> that can be added to the database.  AFAIK, you can't install this
> software after the fact.
> 

<http://hiddenapp.com/> explains how it works and it cannot be done after
the theft. There are no GPS, but can be pretty accurate in urban areas of to
less than a mile according to their FYI. Not bad for $15 a year...

> If the thief had just pulled the hard drive or booted off a MacOS
> install media and reformatted the drive and reinstalled the OS, there
> wouldn't have been a problem.  The pre-installed tracking software would
> have been gone.  AFAIK, there's nothing in any of the boot PROMs on
> either Macintosh or PC that does this sort of tracking without software.
> And you have to connect to the Internet to send information back.
> 

Most thieves aren't that sophisticated in the real world.

> This sort of anti-theft software has been around for a while now.  A
> school system used it to spy on their students getting the VP and head
> of IT fired for invading the privacy of the students and the school
> district sued by the parents of the student that uncovered the spying.

On 06/03/11 15:13, RichD so wittily quipped:
> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
>
> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
> caught.
>
> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
> or what?

one method might be vnc.  Other methods might be commercial (a couple of 
applications come to mind, advertised on the radio and TV).  If your 
computer is set up to 'phone home' whenever it's connected to the 
internet, this would be even easier, since you would instantly know when 
it's online, and what the IP address is.  Apple's shell and utility 
environment is based on FreeBSD 5.x and is basically the same as linux 
or newer releases of BSD or UNIX.  As such, you could easily set up an 
ssh daemon or PPPoE or some other virtual networking method that would 
give you access whenever it's online.  Once you have access to the 
machine, if you're a computer-savvy hacker type it should be a 
no-brainer to make it take photos, report its location via GPS (assuming 
you have hardware for this), and so on.

In article 
<00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
 RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was stolen.  He had 
> anti-theft software installed, which snapped pictures at regular 
> intervals through the webcam.
> 
> Then it said he activated the program remotely, to send him the 
> pictures, and the thief was eventually caught.
> 
> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this 'remote control'?  
> Like,  he sent a virus to the machine, or what?

It's a commercial program that he installed on his own machine.  It's sorta 
like Find My Mac, but it can also take pictures using the built-in camera.  
There are a number of these utilities, from different companies, for sale.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

On 06/03/11 17:01, Michelle Steiner so wittily quipped:
> In article
> <00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>   RichD<r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>
>> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was stolen.  He had
>> anti-theft software installed, which snapped pictures at regular
>> intervals through the webcam.
>>
>> Then it said he activated the program remotely, to send him the
>> pictures, and the thief was eventually caught.
>>
>> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this 'remote control'?
>> Like,  he sent a virus to the machine, or what?
>
> It's a commercial program that he installed on his own machine.  It's sorta
> like Find My Mac, but it can also take pictures using the built-in camera.
> There are a number of these utilities, from different companies, for sale.
>

nice utilities.

In article 
<00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com
>,
 RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
> 
> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
> caught.
> 
> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
> or what?
> 
> 
> --
> Rich

There is an Open Source laptop finder app called "Pray"
<http://preyproject.com/>

On 11-06-03 06:13 PM, RichD wrote:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#bespecific

-- 
Behold the warranty -- the bold print giveth and the fine print taketh away.

Le 2011-06-03 19:50, George Kerby a écrit :

> On 6/3/11 6:42 PM, in article
> vilain-E96EAD.16420203062011@news.individual.net, "Michael Vilain"
> <vilain@NOspamcop.net>  wrote:

>> If the thief had just pulled the hard drive or booted off a MacOS
>> install media and reformatted the drive and reinstalled the OS, there
>> wouldn't have been a problem.  The pre-installed tracking software would
>> have been gone.  AFAIK, there's nothing in any of the boot PROMs on
>> either Macintosh or PC that does this sort of tracking without software.
>> And you have to connect to the Internet to send information back.
>>
>
> Most thieves aren't that sophisticated in the real world.

Of course not! Who has ever heard of thieves reformatting a drive?

Mac Morons will always amaze me!

On 2011-06-03 18:15 , nospam wrote:
> In article
> <00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> RichD<r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>
>> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
>> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
>> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
>>
>> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
>> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
>> caught.
>>
>> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
>> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
>> or what?
>
> the original owner had anti-theft software was installed. when the
> macbook was stolen, he reported it which activated the phoning home.
> there are a few products that can do this.

So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?

-- 
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On 11-06-03 5:13 PM, RichD wrote:

> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
> or what?

The owner had a specific utility installed.

I use Undercover (a different product, same idea) on my Macs.

You can get answers to all of the questions you are about to ask here:

  http://www.orbicule.com/undercover/mac/faq.php

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg          http://goldmark.org/jeff/
I rarely read HTML or poorly quoting posts
Reply-To address is valid

On 11-06-03 10:05 PM, Priam wrote:

> Of course not! Who has ever heard of thieves reformatting a drive?

This was my first questions when I heard about such system, but it turns
out that casual thieves really are pretty stupid.

The stupidity of the thief is one of the biggest things we have going
for us. But there are other things that make it less likely for a thief
to bother with a re-install.

If they don't have access to an OS X install disk, that adds one barrier.

Another is if you use a firmware password (these can, of course, be
defeated, but it takes some expertise).  Finally, OS X comes with a
"Guest" account that users of such systems are encouraged to enable. It
means that someone can use the machine as a guest without needed a password.

Windows users are used to reinstalling the OS frequently when the
registry gets corrupted or they've accumulated to much malware. Linux
users enjoy reinstalling the OS as part of their fine tuning and
learning experience. But Mac users rarely reinstall the OS, so maybe
these schemes are more effective for Macs.

We will never know the exact numbers, but machines do get recovered
through these systems.

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg          http://goldmark.org/jeff/
I rarely read HTML or poorly quoting posts
Reply-To address is valid

In article <RsednclKrso8OXTQnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?

Yeah, but he doesn't get any of your personal data.  And if you discover 
that the computer is missing before he has a chance to do erase the drive, 
you have a good chance of locating the computer before he does.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

Le 2011-06-03 23:42, Jeffrey Goldberg a écrit :
> On 11-06-03 10:05 PM, Priam wrote:
>
>> Of course not! Who has ever heard of thieves reformatting a drive?
>
> This was my first questions when I heard about such system, but it turns
> out that casual thieves really are pretty stupid.

Casual thieves, people who first a laptop left on a desk, maybe.

> If they don't have access to an OS X install disk, that adds one barrier.

Not that hard to find.

> Another is if you use a firmware password (these can, of course, be
> defeated, but it takes some expertise).

2 minute search:

"You can bypass the password by changing the amount of physical RAM 
inside the computer and then resetting PRAM during the first boot 
immediately after the RAM change. In other words, if you change the 
amount of RAM in a Mac, it will start up normally one time to give you a 
chance to reset the PRAM; if you don’t reset the PRAM during that boot, 
firmware-password protection will be restored the next time you boot."

http://www.macworld.com/article/145418/2010/01/unbootablemini.html

Getting to an iMac's RAM doesn't require "some expertise".

> Finally, OS X comes with a
> "Guest" account that users of such systems are encouraged to enable. It
> means that someone can use the machine as a guest without needed a password.

If Macs work this way, it's pretty stupid. Privilege escalation is one 
of the most common security flaw. Ubuntu ask for a password before a 
guess account may be defeated. Of course, the user/root password is easy 
to defeat.

> Windows users are used to reinstalling the OS frequently when the
> registry gets corrupted or they've accumulated to much malware.

Windows users are dummies just like M&Ms but I wonder if having registry 
problems and malware is that common in Windows 7. Miller considers its 
security system stonger than OS X.

> Linux
> users enjoy reinstalling the OS as part of their fine tuning and
> learning experience.

:) Fine tuning does not need reinstalling and there is very little you 
can learn installing Linux, nowadays, except on partitioning. Of course, 
installing Linux from Scratch is another matter.

> But Mac users rarely reinstall the OS,

Less often that Linux users who try this and that distro, for sure.

> so maybe
> these schemes are more effective for Macs.

Is installing OS X that complicated? I recently installed Ubuntu on 2 
USB keys and it's a cinch. It takes a while to update thereafter, but 
you don't have to sit beside teh computer. Then, you must configure it 
to suit your taste, but you'd have to do this anyway if you bought the 
computer.

> We will never know the exact numbers, but machines do get recovered
> through these systems.

The best protection is to buy a bottom of the line laptop that won't 
arouse envy. People usually don't use Photoshop with their laptop. So, 
what's the point. If you can watch a movie, it's powerful enough.

And leash it to your neck :)

On 2011-06-04 00:58 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article<RsednclKrso8OXTQnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Alan Browne<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>  wrote:
>
>> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
>
> Yeah, but he doesn't get any of your personal data.  And if you discover
> that the computer is missing before he has a chance to do erase the drive,
> you have a good chance of locating the computer before he does.

A savvy thief could disable the WiFi if interested in content, then once 
the search for data is over erase the drive and install a fresh OS.

But I suspect most thieves wouldn't care about the data - just erase the 
disk and get the thing into the market.

There there is what Nad R says in his post - though I'm not completely 
convinced of how it would apply to Mac OS X and the Disk utility erase.


-- 
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On 2011-06-03 23:42 , Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
> On 11-06-03 10:05 PM, Priam wrote:
>
>> Of course not! Who has ever heard of thieves reformatting a drive?
>
> This was my first questions when I heard about such system, but it turns
> out that casual thieves really are pretty stupid.
>
> The stupidity of the thief is one of the biggest things we have going
> for us. But there are other things that make it less likely for a thief
> to bother with a re-install.
>
> If they don't have access to an OS X install disk, that adds one barrier.

I don't think it's the thieves who get caught, but those who buy from 
the thieves.  They lose their money and as likely as not can't pin down 
the thief for the police.

There are "classes" of thieves.  And you can be sure that some are very 
savvy in evading detection and covering their tracks.

> Another is if you use a firmware password (these can, of course, be
> defeated, but it takes some expertise).  Finally, OS X comes with a
> "Guest" account that users of such systems are encouraged to enable. It
> means that someone can use the machine as a guest without needed a password.
>
> Windows users are used to reinstalling the OS frequently when the
> registry gets corrupted or they've accumulated to much malware. Linux

Eh?  I've run installs of WinXP for years w/o needing to re-install.

On my prior machine it ran with the factory installed WinXP from 2006 
until a few weeks ago (motherboard died).  Cheap (free) anti-virus s/w 
(AVG) was the prophylactic.

> users enjoy reinstalling the OS as part of their fine tuning and
> learning experience. But Mac users rarely reinstall the OS, so maybe
> these schemes are more effective for Macs.

I've re-installed Mac OS X 3 or 4 times on this iMac due to the prior 
failing hard disk [that was not reported by the Apple Disk Utility 
(incomplete SMART use) and only reported by 3rd party SMART s/w].

-- 
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On 6/3/11 10:05 PM, in article isc7de$j3g$1@dont-email.me, "Priam"
<priam@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Le 2011-06-03 19:50, George Kerby a �crit :
> 
>> On 6/3/11 6:42 PM, in article
>> vilain-E96EAD.16420203062011@news.individual.net, "Michael Vilain"
>> <vilain@NOspamcop.net>  wrote:
> 
>>> If the thief had just pulled the hard drive or booted off a MacOS
>>> install media and reformatted the drive and reinstalled the OS, there
>>> wouldn't have been a problem.  The pre-installed tracking software would
>>> have been gone.  AFAIK, there's nothing in any of the boot PROMs on
>>> either Macintosh or PC that does this sort of tracking without software.
>>> And you have to connect to the Internet to send information back.
>>> 
>> 
>> Most thieves aren't that sophisticated in the real world.
> 
> Of course not! Who has ever heard of thieves reformatting a drive?
> 
> Mac Morons will always amaze me!

Yep. Your average crack-head thieving taxi driver has a degree in IT. Guess
you're right.

NOT!

FOAD, shithead...

On 6/3/11 10:21 PM, in article
RsednclKrso8OXTQnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@giganews.com, "Alan Browne"
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2011-06-03 18:15 , nospam wrote:
>> In article
>> <00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>> RichD<r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>> 
>>> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
>>> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
>>> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
>>> 
>>> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
>>> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
>>> caught.
>>> 
>>> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
>>> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
>>> or what?
>> 
>> the original owner had anti-theft software was installed. when the
>> macbook was stolen, he reported it which activated the phoning home.
>> there are a few products that can do this.
> 
> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?

Of course brain-dead Browne would agree with the resident troll. Why am I
not surprised?

In article <EaGdnYmiCpVSpHfQnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> >> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
> >
> > Yeah, but he doesn't get any of your personal data.  And if you 
> > discover that the computer is missing before he has a chance to do 
> > erase the drive, you have a good chance of locating the computer 
> > before he does.
> 
> A savvy thief could disable the WiFi if interested in content, then once 
> the search for data is over erase the drive and install a fresh OS.
> 
> But I suspect most thieves wouldn't care about the data - just erase the 
> disk and get the thing into the market.

Most thefts of laptops (other than from stores and warehouses, that is) are 
thefts of opportunity by people who aren't very computer savvy.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

On 2011-06-04 10:44 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article<EaGdnYmiCpVSpHfQnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Alan Browne<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>  wrote:
>
>>>> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
>>>
>>> Yeah, but he doesn't get any of your personal data.  And if you
>>> discover that the computer is missing before he has a chance to do
>>> erase the drive, you have a good chance of locating the computer
>>> before he does.
>>
>> A savvy thief could disable the WiFi if interested in content, then once
>> the search for data is over erase the drive and install a fresh OS.
>>
>> But I suspect most thieves wouldn't care about the data - just erase the
>> disk and get the thing into the market.
>
> Most thefts of laptops (other than from stores and warehouses, that is) are
> thefts of opportunity by people who aren't very computer savvy.

But the buyers are.  And if they suspect* it was stolen, they will do 
whatever's possible to protect themselves.

*suspect: when the price is too good, and the point of purchase is "a 
cafe", in a car, etc. chances are it's stolen.

-- 
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

In article <hvidnVI3L4e7zXfQnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> > Most thefts of laptops (other than from stores and warehouses, that 
> > is) are thefts of opportunity by people who aren't very computer 
> > savvy.
> 
> But the buyers are.

Not necessarily.  And even if they are, there's the time frame between 
theft and sale to use that tracking software, assuming that the thief 
didn't decide to keep the computer for himself.

> *suspect: when the price is too good, and the point of purchase is "a 
> cafe", in a car, etc. chances are it's stolen.

Or even Craig's List, eBay, or a newsgroup.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

On 2011-06-04 12:10 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article<hvidnVI3L4e7zXfQnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Alan Browne<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>  wrote:
>
>>> Most thefts of laptops (other than from stores and warehouses, that
>>> is) are thefts of opportunity by people who aren't very computer
>>> savvy.
>>
>> But the buyers are.
>
> Not necessarily.  And even if they are, there's the time frame between
> theft and sale to use that tracking software, assuming that the thief
> didn't decide to keep the computer for himself.

As you say, "not necessarily."

>
>> *suspect: when the price is too good, and the point of purchase is "a
>> cafe", in a car, etc. chances are it's stolen.
>
> Or even Craig's List, eBay, or a newsgroup.



Yeeeksss!  The MBA I bought for my SO was a CL ad!  And I transacted in 
a restaurant in Old Montreal!


(The seller was the manager of the resto, a fine establishment. 
Transaction was in his office where he had an iMac and his partner had a 
MBP.  I have the original receipt, packaging, disks and so on).


The real scam on CL is the "I'll send the computer by UPS, please use 
this online escrow service to deposit your money, when you receive the 
goods, just signal the escrow service to let the money go... I'll pay 
the fees and everything!"

-- 
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

Le 2011-06-04 10:29, George Kerby a écrit :

>>> Most thieves aren't that sophisticated in the real world.
>>
>> Of course not! Who has ever heard of thieves reformatting a drive?
>>
>> Mac Morons will always amaze me!
>
> Yep. Your average crack-head thieving taxi driver has a degree in IT. Guess
> you're right.

Well, of course, for a standard M&M, formatting a drive and reinstalling 
OS X would be quite a feat -- that's why the kids performing the trick 
in Apple stores are called geniuses, right? -- but I'm sure an average 
taxi driver would succeed in no time at all.

BTW, are you sure that taxi drivers are more dishonest than the average 
Mac Moron? They're certainly more honest than your guru.

> FOAD, shithead...

Beware dumbass, your blood pressure is rising and you're killing yourself.

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?

Yes, if the thief is reasonably smart.

But very many thieves are casual ones, who wouldn't have access to an
install disk.

Also, it's possible to prevent startup from a drive other than the
internal one. Again, this can be overcome but it's another obstacle for
the thief.
-- 
<http://www.decohen.com>
The Labyrinth of the Heart: Changed Myths for Changing Lives 
book and e-book <http://www.decohen.com/labyrinth>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address, not the From address.

On 2011-06-04 14:38 , Daniel Cohen wrote:
> Alan Browne<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>  wrote:
>
>> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
>
> Yes, if the thief is reasonably smart.
>
> But very many thieves are casual ones, who wouldn't have access to an
> install disk.
>
> Also, it's possible to prevent startup from a drive other than the
> internal one. Again, this can be overcome but it's another obstacle for
> the thief.

Well as I said elsewhere the real thief is the client who knows (or 
suspects real hard) that the laptop is stolen.  That more knowledgeable 
client will more likely go to lengths to "protect" the laptop from being 
traced.

-- 
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

Le 2011-06-04 14:38, Priam a écrit :
> Le 2011-06-04 10:29, George Kerby a écrit :
>
>>>> Most thieves aren't that sophisticated in the real world.
>>>
>>> Of course not! Who has ever heard of thieves reformatting a drive?
>>>
>>> Mac Morons will always amaze me!
>>
>> Yep. Your average crack-head thieving taxi driver has a degree in IT.
>> Guess
>> you're right.
>
> Well, of course, for a standard M&M, formatting a drive and reinstalling
> OS X would be quite a feat -- that's why the kids performing the trick
> in Apple stores are called geniuses, right? -- but I'm sure an average
> taxi driver would succeed in no time at all.
>
> BTW, are you sure that taxi drivers are more dishonest than the average
> Mac Moron? They're certainly more honest than your guru.

Typical Mac users who can't format a drive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4M-K9iA4R0&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYTz1PVh06U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ni4fFU_B4s&NR=1

In alt.hacker RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
> 
> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
> caught.
> 
> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
> or what?
> 
> 
> --
> Rich

I believe it is a piece of software, designed to work "within" OSX... correct?

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> Well as I said elsewhere the real thief is the client who knows (or 
> suspects real hard) that the laptop is stolen.  That more knowledgeable
> client will more likely go to lengths to "protect" the laptop from being
> traced.

Makes sense. But considering how many Mac users aren't computer savvy, I
suspect you are overstating this risk.

Of course, I may be understating it. There's no statistics on this.
-- 
<http://www.decohen.com>
The Labyrinth of the Heart: Changed Myths for Changing Lives 
book and e-book <http://www.decohen.com/labyrinth>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address, not the From address.

dividebyzer0 <dividebyzer0@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to 
news:isehtg$2hdk$1@adenine.netfront.net: 

>> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
>> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
>> or what?
> 
> I believe it is a piece of software, designed to work "within" OSX...
> correct? 

This is coming from the alt.hacker (white-hat hackers) newsgroup that was 
included so consider it abit of a hacker viewpoint.

YES there are programs that do what has been requested. And as they 
become popular, 2 things will happen. ONE is that the people taking the 
machines will have easy access to black-hat info on how to spot and 
disarm such programs. They will even have access to downloadable scripts 
meant to search&bypass all of the popular programs for it. TWO is that 
the better ones will turned to the dark side. Someone will use the 
concept in an evil way just as auto-updates become viruses and nanny 
programs become keysniffers. But for now as far as I know they can all 
still be recommended.

The other note Id like to throw in here is, consider doing it yourself. 
Depending on your level of knowledge, how often the machine boots up, and 
what programs usually run. I do my own (on linux but the concept is the 
same). For every operating system thre is a directory or a script that 
basically says "whenever the machine boots up, run these". Add something 
there at least. Have it run something which might tell where it is. Then 
have it try to get you the information.

Such as... on my machine a common user (not even the admin account) 
whenever the machine boots will run a "traceroute" from itself to my ISP 
and email it to me at an account off of that machine. I have others also 
but thats an example.


Gandalf  Parker
-- 
Call ourselves something like "security expert" instead of "hacker"?
Sorry, but saying that security experts and white-hat hackers are the 
same is like saying that house painters and artists do basically the same 
thing.

In article <1k2dx06.1ov7kju19c7g0cN%dcohenspam@talktalk.net>,
 dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) wrote:

> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Well as I said elsewhere the real thief is the client who knows (or 
> > suspects real hard) that the laptop is stolen.  That more knowledgeable
> > client will more likely go to lengths to "protect" the laptop from being
> > traced.
> 
> Makes sense. But considering how many Mac users aren't computer savvy, I
> suspect you are overstating this risk.

I don't know what you mean by "computer savvy", but why should they need 
to be? In any case most users of other platforms aren't either.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

On 2011-06-05 07:05 , Daniel Cohen wrote:
> Alan Browne<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>  wrote:
>
>> Well as I said elsewhere the real thief is the client who knows (or
>> suspects real hard) that the laptop is stolen.  That more knowledgeable
>> client will more likely go to lengths to "protect" the laptop from being
>> traced.
>
> Makes sense. But considering how many Mac users aren't computer savvy, I
> suspect you are overstating this risk.

You don't say?  Mac users are not computer savvy?  Oh.

Makes sense, of the three people closest to me that use Macs only one 
(my son) can get around it with complete ease - and he's no expert at 
all - he even wrote some C programs on it (for a class).  He just got in 
from school (in another city) in the middle of the night.  I'll do some 
maintenance on his MBP later today.

The next, a friend, is quite good, but can fall apart solving some 
simple issues (network, backups).

My SO is still putting off "Finder 101" that I want to give her as a 
series of courses to let her roam the machine a bit more.  In the 
meantime she can browse, do Word/Excel with no problems.

> Of course, I may be understating it. There's no statistics on this.

You're probably right.

-- 
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On 6/3/2011 7:23 PM, Bob Harris wrote:
> In article
> <00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com
>> ,
>   RichD<r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>
>> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
>> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
>> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
>>
>> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
>> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
>> caught.
>>
>> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
>> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
>> or what?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rich
>
> There is an Open Source laptop finder app called "Pray"
> <http://preyproject.com/>

I use Prey on my laptop and smartphone, it has all those capabilities 
and a few more. Hopefully I'll never have to really use it, but it's 
there if I need to.

Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> wrote:

> In article <1k2dx06.1ov7kju19c7g0cN%dcohenspam@talktalk.net>,
>  dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) wrote:
> 
> > Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> > 
> > > Well as I said elsewhere the real thief is the client who knows (or
> > > suspects real hard) that the laptop is stolen.  That more knowledgeable
> > > client will more likely go to lengths to "protect" the laptop from being
> > > traced.
> > 
> > Makes sense. But considering how many Mac users aren't computer savvy, I
> > suspect you are overstating this risk.
> 
> I don't know what you mean by "computer savvy", but why should they need
> to be? In any case most users of other platforms aren't either.

I suspect there are many people who would just ake it for granted that
computers came with an operating system and applications, they would not
know about install disks.

Certainly, many  would not know anything about installing or removing
RAM
-- 
<http://www.decohen.com>
The Labyrinth of the Heart: Changed Myths for Changing Lives 
book and e-book <http://www.decohen.com/labyrinth>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address, not the From address.

On 06/05/11 05:51, Gandalf Parker so wittily quipped:
> dividebyzer0<dividebyzer0@gmail.com>  contributed wisdom to
> news:isehtg$2hdk$1@adenine.netfront.net:
>
>>> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
>>> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
>>> or what?
>>
>> I believe it is a piece of software, designed to work "within" OSX...
>> correct?
>
> This is coming from the alt.hacker (white-hat hackers) newsgroup that was
> included so consider it abit of a hacker viewpoint.
>
> YES there are programs that do what has been requested. And as they
> become popular, 2 things will happen. ONE is that the people taking the
> machines will have easy access to black-hat info on how to spot and
> disarm such programs. They will even have access to downloadable scripts
> meant to search&bypass all of the popular programs for it. TWO is that
> the better ones will turned to the dark side. Someone will use the
> concept in an evil way just as auto-updates become viruses and nanny
> programs become keysniffers. But for now as far as I know they can all
> still be recommended.
>
> The other note Id like to throw in here is, consider doing it yourself.

related note: that would be like what I described earlier, i.e. writing 
a script that 'dials home' every time you connect to the internet

> Depending on your level of knowledge, how often the machine boots up, and
> what programs usually run. I do my own (on linux but the concept is the
> same). For every operating system thre is a directory or a script that
> basically says "whenever the machine boots up, run these". Add something
> there at least. Have it run something which might tell where it is. Then
> have it try to get you the information.

related note: if you run an ssh server at a fixed location [including 
dynamic DNS] you can have a process attempt to connect to it until it 
succeeds, then hold the connection until it times out, and perpetutally 
attempt to re-connect.  It could then give you full access to the remote 
laptop through an ssh tunnel.

> Such as... on my machine a common user (not even the admin account)
> whenever the machine boots will run a "traceroute" from itself to my ISP
> and email it to me at an account off of that machine. I have others also
> but thats an example.

heh, your way is simpler, and VERY hard to defeat until AFTER it's 
detected (oops, too late, e-mail already sent).  /me considers doing the 
same thing.

On 2011-06-05 12:44 , Tevvin wrote:
> On 6/3/2011 7:23 PM, Bob Harris wrote:
>> In article
>> <00addd67-75e8-4a93-85ed-d6aadba6dae2@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com
>>> ,
>> RichD<r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
>>> stolen. He had anti-theft software installed, which
>>> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
>>>
>>> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
>>> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
>>> caught.
>>>
>>> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
>>> 'remote control'? Like, he sent a virus to the machine,
>>> or what?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rich
>>
>> There is an Open Source laptop finder app called "Pray"
>> <http://preyproject.com/>
>
> I use Prey on my laptop and smartphone, it has all those capabilities
> and a few more. Hopefully I'll never have to really use it, but it's
> there if I need to.

I haven't seen a claim that it is immune to a simple hard disk 
erase/re-format and re-install of OS X.

-- 
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On Jun 3, RichD <r_delaney2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
> stolen. =A0He had anti-theft software installed, which
> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
>
> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
> caught.
>
> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
> 'remote control'? =A0Like, =A0he sent a virus to the machine,
> or what?

http://tinyurl.com/stolen-mac


--
Rich

On Jun 3, Michelle Steiner <miche...@michelle.org> wrote:
> > So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
>
> Yeah, but he doesn't get any of your personal data. =A0
> And if you discover that the computer is missing before
> he has a chance to do erase the drive,
> you have a good chance of locating the computer
> before he does.

That's my question too - in order to erase the
disk, he has to start the machine, right?
And the undercover anti-theft program will load
itself automatically, I assume, and start doing
its thing immediately, snapping photos before
the thief goes through the process of reformatting.

--
Rich

On 11-06-05 10:40 PM, RichD wrote:

> That's my question too - in order to erase the
> disk, he has to start the machine, right?
> And the undercover anti-theft program will load
> itself automatically, I assume, and start doing
> its thing immediately, snapping photos before
> the thief goes through the process of reformatting.

It need to connect to the network to detect that it has been stolen, and
of course, to send those photos some place.

Cheers,

-j



-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg          http://goldmark.org/jeff/
I rarely read HTML or poorly quoting posts
Reply-To address is valid

On 2011-06-06 04:40:17 +0100, RichD said:

> On Jun 3, Michelle Steiner <miche...@michelle.org> wrote:
>>> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
>> 
>> Yeah, but he doesn't get any of your personal data.  
>> And if you discover that the computer is missing before
>> he has a chance to do erase the drive,
>> you have a good chance of locating the computer
>> before he does.
> 
> That's my question too - in order to erase the
> disk, he has to start the machine, right?
> And the undercover anti-theft program will load
> itself automatically, I assume, and start doing
> its thing immediately, snapping photos before
> the thief goes through the process of reformatting.

Not if you boot from an external disk.
-- 
Chris

On 06-05-2011 23:40, RichD wrote:
> On Jun 3, Michelle Steiner<miche...@michelle.org>  wrote:
>>> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
>>
>> Yeah, but he doesn't get any of your personal data.
>> And if you discover that the computer is missing before
>> he has a chance to do erase the drive,
>> you have a good chance of locating the computer
>> before he does.
>
> That's my question too - in order to erase the
> disk, he has to start the machine, right?
> And the undercover anti-theft program will load
> itself automatically, I assume, and start doing
> its thing immediately, snapping photos before
> the thief goes through the process of reformatting.

Not exactly.  To erase the disk, you have to boot
from a disk other than the one you want to erase.
Most likely an install disk which does not contain
the tracking program.

-- 
Wes Groleau

   There are two types of people in the world …
   http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1157

In article 
<819fb50b-15b0-4434-9021-8cdc3e98220f@35g2000prp.googlegroups.com>,
 RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Jun 3, Michelle Steiner <miche...@michelle.org> wrote:
> > > So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
> >
> > Yeah, but he doesn't get any of your personal data. �
> > And if you discover that the computer is missing before
> > he has a chance to do erase the drive,
> > you have a good chance of locating the computer
> > before he does.
> 
> That's my question too - in order to erase the
> disk, he has to start the machine, right?

Nah. He could just remove the drive and put it in another machine or 
enclosure. And he could just put his own brand-new drive into the 
machine.

-- 
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

On 06/05/11 20:33, RichD so wittily quipped:
> On Jun 3, RichD<r_delaney2...@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
>> stolen.  He had anti-theft software installed, which
>> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
>>
>> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
>> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
>> caught.
>>
>> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
>> 'remote control'?  Like,  he sent a virus to the machine,
>> or what?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/stolen-mac

"Kaufman submitted the information to police, but said they were 
unwilling to help and didn't respond to numerous follow-up emails."

our tax dollars at work.

Oh, and don't forget, California will be letting out a bunch of convicts 
because the prison system is 'too full', because gummint regs have 
forced prison costs to skyrocket beyond the level of sanity, i.e. more 
than what most people earn in a year per prisoner.  I guess we'll just 
_HAVE_ to take the law into our own hands, NOW.

In article <NK-dnSGFf8ytpnDQnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
 Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

> Oh, and don't forget, California will be letting out a bunch of convicts 
> because the prison system is 'too full', because gummint regs have 
> forced prison costs to skyrocket beyond the level of sanity,

No, the prison system is too full because of idiotic laws creating 
victimless crimes, and idiotic mandatory sentencing such as the 
three-strikes law that sends people to jail for life for stealing a pizza.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> writes:

> In article <NK-dnSGFf8ytpnDQnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>  Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
> 
> > Oh, and don't forget, California will be letting out a bunch of convicts 
> > because the prison system is 'too full', because gummint regs have 
> > forced prison costs to skyrocket beyond the level of sanity,
> 
> No, the prison system is too full because of idiotic laws creating 
> victimless crimes, and idiotic mandatory sentencing such as the 
> three-strikes law that sends people to jail for life for stealing a
> pizza.

Having the facts on your side never helps when you're arguing with
someone who thinks it's cutesy to write "gummint."

> Having the facts on your side never helps when you're arguing with
> someone who thinks it's cutesy to write "gummint."

"I suppose he would make a decent Congressman, even if he does spell
government 'gummint.'  Teachers and lawyers ought to know how to
spell; not so much soldiers and congressmen."

    Maj. James A. Connelly, in a letter to his wife during the Civil War
(he was a lawyer before and after being a soldier)

-- 
Wes Groleau

   There are two types of people in the world …
   http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1157

On 06/06/11 15:55, Michelle Steiner so wittily quipped:
> In article<NK-dnSGFf8ytpnDQnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>   Big Bad Bob<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local>  wrote:
>
>> Oh, and don't forget, California will be letting out a bunch of convicts
>> because the prison system is 'too full', because gummint regs have
>> forced prison costs to skyrocket beyond the level of sanity,
>
> No, the prison system is too full because of idiotic laws creating
> victimless crimes

you mean drug use, right?  I would be all for _NOT_ prosecuting people 
for crimes 'against themselves'.  That's stupid, really.  Let people do 
whatever they want so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.  And no 
publically-funded 'enabling' these people either (I think the latter 
drives the former, public funds that enable these idiots to harm 
themselves, and 'no no you can't do that to yourself' laws that put them 
in prison for it - both are wrong).

> and idiotic mandatory sentencing such as the three-strikes law

if you're stupid enough to commit enough crimes to get sent up for 3 
strikes, capital punishment would be a better sentence, IMBO.  "Get out 
of the gene pool" I say.  FYI stealing pizza isn't a felony, and 3 
strike laws generally require 3 FELONIES, so it has to be so bad that 
the lawyers can't plea-bargain it down.

On 06/06/11 16:14, Doug Anderson so wittily quipped:
> Having the facts on your side never helps when you're arguing with
> someone who thinks it's cutesy to write "gummint."

'gummint' aka 'gums everything up'.  Nothing like a gummint to gum up 
the works, keep people from advancing, hold you in your place, control, 
big nanny, etc.

In article <boqdna1KsaHF63PQnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
 Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

> > No, the prison system is too full because of idiotic laws creating 
> > victimless crimes
> 
> you mean drug use, right? 

Among other things.

>  FYI stealing pizza isn't a felony,

In some circumstances, it can be, and some prosecutors have prosecuted just 
that crime as a felony.

<http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/10/local/la-me-pizzathief10-2010feb10>

How about this one, in which a guy was given a life sentence for three 
convictions of fraud, totaling about $230?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummel_v._Estelle>

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

On 2011-06-07 16:17 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article<boqdna1KsaHF63PQnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>   Big Bad Bob<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local>  wrote:
>
>>> No, the prison system is too full because of idiotic laws creating
>>> victimless crimes
>>
>> you mean drug use, right?
>
> Among other things.
>
>>   FYI stealing pizza isn't a felony,
>
> In some circumstances, it can be, and some prosecutors have prosecuted =
just
> that crime as a felony.
>
> <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/10/local/la-me-pizzathief10-2010f=
eb10>
>
> How about this one, in which a guy was given a life sentence for three
> convictions of fraud, totaling about $230?
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummel_v._Estelle>

         THE word commonly used to describe a politician who publicly
         announces he wants to send fewer criminals to prison
         is =93loser".

                      - The Economist, 2011.05.26


Nonetheless, in that edition there is an article about how some US=20
states are taking a fresh look at the high cost of incarceration, better =

education and followup programs, etc. and finding that it's much cheaper =

to society to keep the less dangerous criminals out of prison.

--=20
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On 06/07/11 13:17, Michelle Steiner so wittily quipped:
> In article<boqdna1KsaHF63PQnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>   Big Bad Bob<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local>  wrote:
>
>>> No, the prison system is too full because of idiotic laws creating
>>> victimless crimes
>>
>> you mean drug use, right?
>
> Among other things.
>
>>   FYI stealing pizza isn't a felony,
>
> In some circumstances, it can be, and some prosecutors have prosecuted just
> that crime as a felony.
>
> <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/10/local/la-me-pizzathief10-2010feb10>
>
> How about this one, in which a guy was given a life sentence for three
> convictions of fraud, totaling about $230?
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummel_v._Estelle>
>

their lawyers must really have sucked.  And of course there must be 
others (that deserved life sentences) who 'walked' (similar injustice).

In article <g8SdndLlXPB_DHPQnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
 Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

> > How about this one, in which a guy was given a life sentence for three 
> > convictions of fraud, totaling about $230?
> >
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummel_v._Estelle>
> >
> 
> their lawyers must really have sucked.  And of course there must be 
> others (that deserved life sentences) who 'walked' (similar injustice).

Lawyers who argue before the Supreme Court rarely, if ever, suck.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

In article <qoGdnU0s6bshFnPQnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> Nonetheless, in that edition there is an article about how some US 
> states are taking a fresh look at the high cost of incarceration, better 
> education and followup programs, etc. and finding that it's much cheaper 
> to society to keep the less dangerous criminals out of prison.

That's been obvious for years; politicians are only now acknowledging the 
fact, though.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

Le 2011-06-07 16:17, Michelle Steiner a écrit :
> In article<boqdna1KsaHF63PQnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>   Big Bad Bob<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local>  wrote:
>
>>> No, the prison system is too full because of idiotic laws creating
>>> victimless crimes
>>
>> you mean drug use, right?
>
> Among other things.

Steiner, I hope you haven't killfiled this nick yet, because, here, we 
really agree.

I was once called to be an eventual member of a jury. I wasn't chosen 
but, since I was there, I decided to stay to hear at least the first day 
of proceedings.

A 50 years old man was living with his mother, who had a concubine. 
Alcohol helping, discussions warmed up, he grabbed an ice pick and 
stabbed the concubine. All 3 where so ashamed to be in court that no 
sentence was really needed. But attempted murder doesn't go unnoticed 
and, for sure, there was one.

Here, in Quebec, a doctor killed both his young children and tried to 
suicide because he got into a fit when he learned that his spouse had an 
affair with another man.

And that's without speaking about people who, having been raised on the 
streets, have not much option left than to deal on the street.

Most cases in court are not reason for avenging but for compassion, and 
an invitation to reflect on the misery our society produces despite all 
the means at hand.

Michelle Steiner wrote:

> Lawyers who argue before the Supreme Court rarely, if ever, suck.
> 

Pray tell Michelle, have you "had" all of the lawyers who argue before
the  Supreme Court and they all refused to suck ?

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

In article <michelle-16EB46.17445507062011@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <g8SdndLlXPB_DHPQnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>  Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
> 
> > > How about this one, in which a guy was given a life sentence for three 
> > > convictions of fraud, totaling about $230?
> > >
> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummel_v._Estelle>
> > >
> > 
> > their lawyers must really have sucked.  And of course there must be 
> > others (that deserved life sentences) who 'walked' (similar injustice).
> 
> Lawyers who argue before the Supreme Court rarely, if ever, suck.

ALL lawyers suck ... their clients' wallets dry.   :-(

On 04/06/11 04:21, Alan Browne wrote:

> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?

Most users of anti-theft software also set up a firmware password to 
make this somewhat more difficult. They also enable the guest login 
account to 'encourage' the thief to use that rather than re-installing, 
and thus give themselves away.

On 2011-06-10 19:44:35 +0100, Calum said:

> On 04/06/11 04:21, Alan Browne wrote:
> 
>> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
> 
> Most users of anti-theft software also set up a firmware password to 
> make this somewhat more difficult. They also enable the guest login 
> account to 'encourage' the thief to use that rather than re-installing, 
> and thus give themselves away.

There are suggestions that Lion has some sort of "Find my Mac" 
functionality, rather like these bits of anti-theft software.
-- 
Chris

In article <95fd8sFq7cU1@mid.individual.net>, Chris Ridd
<chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:

> On 2011-06-10 19:44:35 +0100, Calum said:
> 
> > On 04/06/11 04:21, Alan Browne wrote:
> > 
> >> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
> > 
> > Most users of anti-theft software also set up a firmware password to 
> > make this somewhat more difficult. They also enable the guest login 
> > account to 'encourage' the thief to use that rather than re-installing, 
> > and thus give themselves away.
> 
> There are suggestions that Lion has some sort of "Find my Mac" 
> functionality, rather like these bits of anti-theft software.

There's also the fact that most theives are incredibly stupid and wouldn't
know how to erase the drive, let alone be able or have the discs to
reinstall Mac OS X. No doubt there's quite a few marginally more
intelligent types who try to re-install some version of Windows instead.

On 6/11/2011 12:14 AM, Calum wrote:
> On 04/06/11 04:21, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
>
> Most users of anti-theft software also set up a firmware password to
> make this somewhat more difficult. They also enable the guest login
> account to 'encourage' the thief to use that rather than re-installing,
> and thus give themselves away.
True. Some don't even require logging-in...they run once the login 
prompt appears.

On 06/07/11 18:18, Paul Debrowski so wittily quipped:
> Most cases in court are not reason for avenging but for compassion, and
> an invitation to reflect on the misery our society produces despite all
> the means at hand.

for every person willing to show compassion, there are many more who are 
willing to milk it for all it's worth (until compassion runs dry, for 
the obvious reasons).  I dried up long ago.  nuke me 'till they glow, 
then shoot 'em in the dark.  works for me.

In article <8MudnXgySODnVW7QnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Big Bad Bob
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

> On 06/07/11 18:18, Paul Debrowski so wittily quipped:
> > Most cases in court are not reason for avenging but for compassion, and
> > an invitation to reflect on the misery our society produces despite all
> > the means at hand.
> 
> for every person willing to show compassion, there are many more who are 
> willing to milk it for all it's worth (until compassion runs dry, for 
> the obvious reasons).  I dried up long ago.  nuke me 'till they glow, 
> then shoot 'em in the dark.  works for me.

Yep. The problem is that there's far too much weak-kneed "compassion" in
the western legal / justice system. In most cases sentencing is little
more than a slap on the writs with a wet tissue, and such idiotic lenient
sentencing is always at the expense of the victim's of the crime and often
the rest of the general public as well.

In article <michelle-2C0242.07443904062011@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <EaGdnYmiCpVSpHfQnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> 
> > >> So all a thief has to do is erase the drive and re-install OS X?
> > >
> > > Yeah, but he doesn't get any of your personal data.  And if you 
> > > discover that the computer is missing before he has a chance to do 
> > > erase the drive, you have a good chance of locating the computer 
> > > before he does.
> > 
> > A savvy thief could disable the WiFi if interested in content, then once 
> > the search for data is over erase the drive and install a fresh OS.
> > 
> > But I suspect most thieves wouldn't care about the data - just erase the 
> > disk and get the thing into the market.
> 
> Most thefts of laptops (other than from stores and warehouses, that is) are 
> thefts of opportunity by people who aren't very computer savvy.

Typically from internet coffee shops etcetera or burgled.

-- 
The Chinese pretend their goods are good and we pretend our money 
is good, or is it the reverse?

On Jun 4, 1:13=A0am, RichD <r_delaney2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There was a recent news item, an Apple Mac was
> stolen. =A0He had anti-theft software installed, which
> snapped pictures at regular intervals through the webcam.
>
> Then it said he activated the program remotely,
> to send him the pictures, and the thief was eventually
> caught.
>
> My question is, how the heck did he accomplish this
> 'remote control'? =A0Like, =A0he sent a virus to the machine,
> or what?
>
software combined with an idiot who does not know what [duct] tape is
for.