So I have been away for a while and downloaded posts since March.  
Everything behaves as expected except in every thread where he replies, 
Paul Sture's posts - and only Paul Sture's posts - don't thread but 
appear individually outside of the thread.  I'm guessing it's his news 
client (Pan) and not mine (Hogwasher).

-- 
Nelson

In article <0001HW.CBF66B33052ED3C4B01029BF@news.astraweb.com>,
 Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:

> So I have been away for a while and downloaded posts since March.  
> Everything behaves as expected except in every thread where he replies, 
> Paul Sture's posts - and only Paul Sture's posts - don't thread but 
> appear individually outside of the thread.  I'm guessing it's his news 
> client (Pan) and not mine (Hogwasher).

No, it's your newsreader.  His messages thread properly on MT-NewsWatcher.

My guess is that Hogwasher doesn't recognize References headers that contain 
line breaks.  Most newsreaders just put a single space between the message IDs 
in the References header, but Paul Sture's replies use a CRLF followed by a TAB, 
which is allowed by the USENET standard.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 14:18:21 -0500, Wayne C. Morris wrote:

> In article <0001HW.CBF66B33052ED3C4B01029BF@news.astraweb.com>,
>  Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>> So I have been away for a while and downloaded posts since March.
>> Everything behaves as expected except in every thread where he replies,
>> Paul Sture's posts - and only Paul Sture's posts - don't thread but
>> appear individually outside of the thread.  I'm guessing it's his news
>> client (Pan) and not mine (Hogwasher).

Sorry for the inconvenience, but you are the first person to have 
mentioned this.

> No, it's your newsreader.  His messages thread properly on
> MT-NewsWatcher.
> 
> My guess is that Hogwasher doesn't recognize References headers that
> contain line breaks.  Most newsreaders just put a single space between
> the message IDs in the References header, but Paul Sture's replies use a
> CRLF followed by a TAB,
> which is allowed by the USENET standard.

I am now using an updated version of Pan (which has one or two features I 
suspect were influenced by MTNW).

It appears that there is active development at the moment for Pan.  If 
adding an option here to "fix" this behaviour is a reasonable thing to 
ask for, I could submit a request.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:23:42 -0400, Paul Sture wrote
(in article <edrma9-77g.ln1@mint-hp.chingola.ch>):

> On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 14:18:21 -0500, Wayne C. Morris wrote:
> 
>> In article <0001HW.CBF66B33052ED3C4B01029BF@news.astraweb.com>,
>> Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> So I have been away for a while and downloaded posts since March.
>>> Everything behaves as expected except in every thread where he replies,
>>> Paul Sture's posts - and only Paul Sture's posts - don't thread but
>>> appear individually outside of the thread.  I'm guessing it's his news
>>> client (Pan) and not mine (Hogwasher).
> 
> Sorry for the inconvenience, but you are the first person to have 
> mentioned this.
> 
>> No, it's your newsreader.  His messages thread properly on
>> MT-NewsWatcher.
>> 
>> My guess is that Hogwasher doesn't recognize References headers that
>> contain line breaks.  Most newsreaders just put a single space between
>> the message IDs in the References header, but Paul Sture's replies use a
>> CRLF followed by a TAB,
>> which is allowed by the USENET standard.
> 
> I am now using an updated version of Pan (which has one or two features I 
> suspect were influenced by MTNW).
> 
> It appears that there is active development at the moment for Pan.  If 
> adding an option here to "fix" this behaviour is a reasonable thing to 
> ask for, I could submit a request.

If the follow up comment is correct, it is Hogwasher which needs to be 
fixed :-)  Fat chance of that.

-- 
Nelson

On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:35:15 -0400, Nelson wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:23:42 -0400, Paul Sture wrote (in article
> <edrma9-77g.ln1@mint-hp.chingola.ch>):
> 
>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 14:18:21 -0500, Wayne C. Morris wrote:
>> 
>>> In article <0001HW.CBF66B33052ED3C4B01029BF@news.astraweb.com>,
>>> Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> So I have been away for a while and downloaded posts since March.
>>>> Everything behaves as expected except in every thread where he
>>>> replies,
>>>> Paul Sture's posts - and only Paul Sture's posts - don't thread but
>>>> appear individually outside of the thread.  I'm guessing it's his
>>>> news client (Pan) and not mine (Hogwasher).
>> 
>> Sorry for the inconvenience, but you are the first person to have
>> mentioned this.
>> 
>>> No, it's your newsreader.  His messages thread properly on
>>> MT-NewsWatcher.
>>> 
>>> My guess is that Hogwasher doesn't recognize References headers that
>>> contain line breaks.  Most newsreaders just put a single space between
>>> the message IDs in the References header, but Paul Sture's replies use
>>> a CRLF followed by a TAB,
>>> which is allowed by the USENET standard.
>> 
>> I am now using an updated version of Pan (which has one or two features
>> I suspect were influenced by MTNW).
>> 
>> It appears that there is active development at the moment for Pan.  If
>> adding an option here to "fix" this behaviour is a reasonable thing to
>> ask for, I could submit a request.
> 
> If the follow up comment is correct, it is Hogwasher which needs to be
> fixed :-)  Fat chance of that.

Understood, though looking at the way the headers are displayed in Pan, 
the <CR><LF><TAB> combination appears to be there only for cosmetic 
reasons.  Your message headers look like this in Pan:

References: <0001HW.CBF66B33052ED3C4B01029BF@news.astraweb.com>
        <wayne.morris-4C36F0.14182107062012@news.eternal-september.org>
        <edrma9-77g.ln1@mint-hp.chingola.ch>

(I have replaced each <TAB> character with 8 spaces there to reflect what 
I see on my system.)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Friday, 15 June 2012 11:04 +0200, 
 in article <peara9-gms.ln1@mint-hp.chingola.ch>, 
 Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:35:15 -0400, Nelson wrote:

>> If the follow up comment is correct, it is Hogwasher which needs to 
>> be fixed :-)  Fat chance of that.

> Understood, though looking at the way the headers are displayed in 
> Pan, the <CR><LF><TAB> combination appears to be there only for 
> cosmetic reasons.  Your message headers look like this in Pan:

> References: <0001HW.CBF66B33052ED3C4B01029BF@news.astraweb.com>
>         <wayne.morris-4C36F0.14182107062012@news.eternal-september.org>
>         <edrma9-77g.ln1@mint-hp.chingola.ch>

> (I have replaced each <TAB> character with 8 spaces there to reflect 
> what I see on my system.)

While what Pan is doing is completely legal, it's rare to see.  It's 
not simply a matter of looking pretty, either.

When looking at most References headers, in MT-NewsWatcher, it's 
obvious that they're on a single line, which is haphazardly wrapped 
for viewing and determined, entirely, by the message windows width.  
When I view such a message in Alpine, the References are displayed as 
you present them above.  If, however, I change my terminal display 
width, several references may appear on a single line, with display 
line wrapping determined by the column width of the display.

Take for example, 
<news:barmar-2EB31B.10544614062012@news.eternal-september.org> 
(<http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=133976852500>).  When I view 
these references, which appear on a single line in the news-stream, in 
Alpine, at a 'standard' column width of 80 characters per line, they 
display very similarly to what you show.

References: <michelle-E6961D.16505413062012@news.eternal-september.org>
    <130620122353346430%nospam@nospam.invalid>
    <barmar-A91DFF.00353314062012@news.eternal-september.org>
    <michelle-C27290.21451813062012@news.eternal-september.org>
    <140620120055067967%nospam@nospam.invalid>
    <HelpfulHarry-1406121821150001@203-118-187-40.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>

If I expand my terminal display width to 256 columns, the same headers 
display, in Alpine, like this.

References: <michelle-E6961D.16505413062012@news.eternal-september.org> <130620122353346430%nospam@nospam.invalid> <barmar-A91DFF.00353314062012@news.eternal-september.org> <michelle-C27290.21451813062012@news.eternal-september.org>
    <140620120055067967%nospam@nospam.invalid> <HelpfulHarry-1406121821150001@203-118-187-40.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>

On the other hand, Pan does insert its own hard line wraps into its 
References header: <news:peara9-gms.ln1@mint-hp.chingola.ch> 
(<http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=133976928800>).

These References will be displayed as you show, regardless of what is 
being used for a reader, because that is the way it appears in the 
news-stream.  While it's completely legal, its a tad unusual.  That 
Hogwasher appears to barf, when presented with these headers, is an 
indication that Hogwasher is b0rken, in this respect.

- -- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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