Can I, booting from install media, format and clone drives if I don't have 
a system drive attached to my system at the time?

OK, now the details and reasons and set-up and all.

I have a G5 PowerMac.  This has space for two internal SATA drives.  One 
drive is my system drive and the other larger one is my TM drive.  I am 
running out of space on my system drive.

I would like to copy/clone my current TM drive content to a newer, even 
larger, SATA drive (which I've purchased).  Then copy/clone my current 
system drive to the old TM drive.

The difficulty is that I don't have any external enclosures that take SATA 
drives.  (I just got one, and promptly broke the connector from the board 
to the SATA data connector.  Maybe I can get some kind of refund, since I 
really don't think I handled things roughly when closing the enclosure, 
which is presumably when the connector got pulled.  The problem could 
be addressed with some skill and a soldering iron, but I lake both.)

So, while I could go out and buy (another) enclosure that takes SATA 
drives, I feel a certain bitterness in doing so.

So I'm wondering if I could remove my current (150GB) system drive, and 
put in the new 750GB.  Boot from Leopard Install media.  Clone the current 
500GB TM data to the new 750GB drive without having a system drive in 
place.  Then I could remove the 750GB drive, reinstall the 150GB drive, 
and clone the 150GB to the 500GB drive.  Then remove the old 150GB drive 
and install the new 750GB TM drive.

So my question is about the first steps.  Or should I just bite the bullet 
and get a new external enclosure for a SATA drive?

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                     http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
  I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings.
  http://improve-usenet.org/

In article 
<alpine.OSX.1.10.0804051657490.252@hagrid.ewd.goldmark.org>,
 Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody@goldmark.org> wrote:

> Can I, booting from install media, format and clone drives if I don't have 
> a system drive attached to my system at the time?
> 
> OK, now the details and reasons and set-up and all.
> 
> I have a G5 PowerMac.  This has space for two internal SATA drives.  One 
> drive is my system drive and the other larger one is my TM drive.  I am 
> running out of space on my system drive.
> 
> I would like to copy/clone my current TM drive content to a newer, even 
> larger, SATA drive (which I've purchased).  Then copy/clone my current 
> system drive to the old TM drive.
> 
> The difficulty is that I don't have any external enclosures that take SATA 
> drives.  (I just got one, and promptly broke the connector from the board 
> to the SATA data connector.  Maybe I can get some kind of refund, since I 
> really don't think I handled things roughly when closing the enclosure, 
> which is presumably when the connector got pulled.  The problem could 
> be addressed with some skill and a soldering iron, but I lake both.)
> 
> So, while I could go out and buy (another) enclosure that takes SATA 
> drives, I feel a certain bitterness in doing so.
> 
> So I'm wondering if I could remove my current (150GB) system drive, and 
> put in the new 750GB.  Boot from Leopard Install media.  Clone the current 
> 500GB TM data to the new 750GB drive without having a system drive in 
> place.  Then I could remove the 750GB drive, reinstall the 150GB drive, 
> and clone the 150GB to the 500GB drive.  Then remove the old 150GB drive 
> and install the new 750GB TM drive.
> 
> So my question is about the first steps.  Or should I just bite the bullet 
> and get a new external enclosure for a SATA drive?
> 
> -j

I think you can using the Installation DVD "Disk Utility" from the 
menus.   Use the Disk Utility "Restore" facility.

You can easily verify that Disk Utility has the "restore" facility 
by booting from your Installation DVD, and checking out what the 
installation DVD's Disk Utility offers.

Then shutdown, swap drives around, boot from the DVD and go to 
town.

Another questionable alternative (meaning I don't know if it is a 
workable idea).  Do you have another Firewire capable Mac?  Could 
you put that Mac into "Target" mode (boot it with the 'T' key held 
down), and then while it is in Target mode, boot your PowerMac G5 
using the disk in the other Mac (boot holding the 'Option' key).

                                    Bob Harris

In <nospam.News.Bob-D3DDD4.19525305042008@news.verizon.net>, Bob Harris wrote:

> You can easily verify that Disk Utility has the "restore" facility
> by booting from your Installation DVD, and checking out what the
> installation DVD's Disk Utility offers.

Ah.  Of course.  It's a rather simple check with no need for me to move 
disks around before verifying.

Thanks.

> Another questionable alternative (meaning I don't know if it is a
> workable idea).  Do you have another Firewire capable Mac?  Could
> you put that Mac into "Target" mode (boot it with the 'T' key held
> down), and then while it is in Target mode, boot your PowerMac G5
> using the disk in the other Mac (boot holding the 'Option' key).

I would be surprised if that would work.  But I might experiment with that 
if needs be.

I also realized that I have another route to go.  I can clone my TM drive 
to a non-SATA drive in an external enclosure and then later clone that 
back to the new TM drive.  It just means an extra cloning.

I'll report back.

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                     http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
  I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings.
  http://improve-usenet.org/

In <alpine.OSX.1.10.0804051902170.252@hagrid.ewd.goldmark.org>, Jeffrey...:

>> You can easily verify that Disk Utility has the "restore" facility
>> by booting from your Installation DVD, and checking out what the
>> installation DVD's Disk Utility offers.
>
> Ah.  Of course.  It's a rather simple check with no need for me to move disks 
> around before verifying.

> I'll report back.

Well.  The Leopard installation DVD does have Disk Utility with "restore" 
available, but it appears that DU's Restore cannot be used to clone Time 
Machine volumes.  After "preparing" I would get.  "Restore error -- 
Operation not permitted".

So I decided to try the slow way of putting my system disk back in, and 
copying to a non-SATA external disk (knowing I would have to copy back 
again to the new SATA disk).  DU failed again with the same error.  So now 
I've started copying the TM volume using SuperDuper.  It is proceeding 
slowly.  But at least after 10 minutes there are no errors.

It will only be after I've copied back from the non-SATA enclosure to the 
new intended TM disk and test that that I will actually know if this 
works.  So this might be 10 hours in each direction.  (And of course I've 
got TM turned off during this time.)

If after that 20 hours or so the new TM volume doesn't pan out well, I 
will either

    (1) get a new SATA external enclosure, OR
    (2) give up on maintaining TM continuity and just get another new disk, OR
    (3) ask he who must not be named for advice on cloning disks.

This really should have been a very simple project.  Maybe it would be if 
I weren't quite so hopped up on prescription (and rightfully prescribed) 
pain killers.

Well, it's now been 20 minutes and I can see visible progress on the 
progress bar.

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                     http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
  I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings.
  http://improve-usenet.org/

On  5-Apr-2008, Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody@goldmark.org> wrote:

> In <alpine.OSX.1.10.0804051902170.252@hagrid.ewd.goldmark.org>,
> Jeffrey...:
>
> >> You can easily verify that Disk Utility has the "restore" facility
> >> by booting from your Installation DVD, and checking out what the
> >> installation DVD's Disk Utility offers.
> >
> > Ah.  Of course.  It's a rather simple check with no need for me to move
> > disks
> > around before verifying.
>
> > I'll report back.
>
> Well.  The Leopard installation DVD does have Disk Utility with "restore"
> available, but it appears that DU's Restore cannot be used to clone Time
> Machine volumes.  After "preparing" I would get.  "Restore error -- 
> Operation not permitted".
>
> So I decided to try the slow way of putting my system disk back in, and
> copying to a non-SATA external disk (knowing I would have to copy back
> again to the new SATA disk).  DU failed again with the same error.  So now
>
> I've started copying the TM volume using SuperDuper.  It is proceeding
> slowly.  But at least after 10 minutes there are no errors.
>
> It will only be after I've copied back from the non-SATA enclosure to the
> new intended TM disk and test that that I will actually know if this
> works.  So this might be 10 hours in each direction.  (And of course I've
> got TM turned off during this time.)
>
> If after that 20 hours or so the new TM volume doesn't pan out well, I
> will either
>
>     (1) get a new SATA external enclosure, OR
>     (2) give up on maintaining TM continuity and just get another new
>     disk, OR
>     (3) ask he who must not be named for advice on cloning disks.
>
Another option might be to simply buy another hard drive for use with Time
Machine.

Then take the existing one out of your computer and put the new drive in.

Keep your existing TM drive as is until you feel you no longer need it (or
forever, if need be).


-- 
I don't know how I got over the hill without getting to the top.

In <gPXJj.1856$bQ1.554@trndny09>, Little Sir Echo wrote:

> On  5-Apr-2008, Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody@goldmark.org> wrote:

>> If after that 20 hours or so the new TM volume doesn't pan out well, I
>> will either
>>
>>     (1) get a new SATA external enclosure, OR
>>     (2) give up on maintaining TM continuity and just get another new
>>     disk, OR
>>     (3) ask he who must not be named for advice on cloning disks.
>>
> Another option might be to simply buy another hard drive for use with Time
> Machine.
>
> Then take the existing one out of your computer and put the new drive in.

That was what I wanted to say with option 2.  Anyway, it looks like the 
SuperDuper cloning of a TM volume works.  Last night the cloning to the 
external finished, and I tested that external volume this morning with TM. 
I was able to restore from it using TM and I was able to do an incremental 
TM back-up to it as well (though it took a long time "preparing").

So although Disk Utility doesn't seem able to clone TM volumes, SuperDuper 
does.  I'm now cloning back from the clone to my new disk.  I've got about 
three hours left on that.  Then all I will need to do is clone the system 
disk to the old TM disk and I'm done.

I've also installed an eSATA card, but I haven't had a chance to test it.

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                     http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
  I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings.
  http://improve-usenet.org/

In <alpine.OSX.1.10.0804061144270.1032@hagrid.ewd.goldmark.org>, Jeffrey...:

> Anyway, it looks like the SuperDuper cloning of a TM volume works. 
> Last night the cloning to the external finished, and I tested that 
> external volume this morning with TM. I was able to restore from it 
> using TM and I was able to do an incremental TM back-up to it as well 
> (though it took a long time "preparing").

Unfortunately after I'd copied my system disk's content over to its new, 
roomier home, TM did not recognize it as the source volume that 
corresponding to what it had in back up.

And to top it off, my brand new disk for the TM volume was taking a very 
long time to mount and eventually threw up a SMART error.  (reallocated 
sectors count: 702).  So now I'm waiting for the RMA from Macsales/OWC to 
replace that disk.

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                     http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
  I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings.
  http://improve-usenet.org/