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Do PC's still use DOS?

Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS written on their BIOS chip?  I 
have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP on a newer Dell 
or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt?  Most PC people claim 
that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its OS like Windows 98 
or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip but I do not believe 
it.  I have not tried inserting a DOS boot floppy, and testing it for 
myself.   In my 98 machine I can boot from a floppy, wipe out the hard 
drive, partition and then do a format C: /s and the machine will boot 
with only DOS.  I wonder if XP works the same.  

I guess my main comparison would be the classic Mac OS which is full GUI 
and no command prompt. On my Mac for exmaple, I can wipe out the hard 
drive with my boot CD, and then install the boot files with the CD and 
the Mac boots into a GUI. I doubt XP is a full GUI and does not have 
command prompt instructions in BIOS, but perhaps I am wrong.  


John
0
johnw_94020 (381)
12/12/2004 8:51:06 AM
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John a �crit :
> Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS written on their BIOS chip?  I 
> have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP on a newer Dell 
> or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt?  Most PC people claim 
> that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its OS like Windows 98 
> or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip but I do not believe 
> it.  I have not tried inserting a DOS boot floppy, and testing it for 
> myself.   In my 98 machine I can boot from a floppy, wipe out the hard 
> drive, partition and then do a format C: /s and the machine will boot 
> with only DOS.  I wonder if XP works the same.  
> 
> I guess my main comparison would be the classic Mac OS which is full GUI 
> and no command prompt. On my Mac for exmaple, I can wipe out the hard 
> drive with my boot CD, and then install the boot files with the CD and 
> the Mac boots into a GUI. I doubt XP is a full GUI and does not have 
> command prompt instructions in BIOS, but perhaps I am wrong.  
> 
> 
> John

Well, you are. :) MS-DOS (or any other DOS) is an operating system, as 
Windows XP is. So yes, you can buy a computer shipped with Windows XP, 
wipe the hard drive out and install MS-DOS. And you'll have DOS. But 
Windows XP doesn't have a "real" DOS, it only has a command line (much 
like Terminal in Mac OS X).

And the BIOS has absolutely NO operating system of any kind, you can't 
type any commands in it. It's just there to support basic operations for 
the operating system, whatever it is (that's what BIOS means: Basic 
Input Output System). It's far less sophisticated than the Open Firmware 
of new world Macs.
0
cwpaigAT (10)
12/12/2004 11:05:29 AM
In article <41bc25e8$0$32407$636a15ce@news.free.fr>,
 Paig Chong Woo <cwpaigAT@valkenDOT.org> wrote:

> And the BIOS has absolutely NO operating system of any kind, you can't 
> type any commands in it. It's just there to support basic operations for 
> the operating system, whatever it is (that's what BIOS means: Basic 
> Input Output System). It's far less sophisticated than the Open Firmware 
> of new world Macs.

Nit: OF (on Macs) predates the New World systems by years.

-- 
Change account to gw when responding by mail.
0
uce3 (3721)
12/12/2004 12:51:03 PM
John wrote:

> Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS written on their BIOS chip?

No standard PC had ever written DOS (or any other operating system) written 
on a BIOS chip...

> I have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP on a newer
> Dell or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt?

Sure, just install DOS...

> Most PC people
> claim that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its OS like
> Windows 98 or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip but I do
> not believe it.

Maybe You should, because they are right. Windows2000 and XP are based on 
WindowsNT which is a real(tm) 32bit operating system unlike Windows 3.11, 
95, 98 and ME which more or less are a mixture of DOS and 32bit 
extensions...

> I have not tried inserting a DOS boot floppy, and
> testing it for myself.   In my 98 machine I can boot from a floppy,
> wipe out the hard drive, partition and then do a format C: /s and the
> machine will boot with only DOS.  I wonder if XP works the same.

And what should the ability to boot DOS have to do with the installed OS? 
DOS is an operating system, Winxp is an operating system, too. It doesn't 
matter what OS installed, You always can boot from a DOS diskette on a 
standard PC...

> I guess my main comparison would be the classic Mac OS which is full
> GUI and no command prompt. On my Mac for exmaple, I can wipe out the
> hard drive with my boot CD, and then install the boot files with the
> CD and the Mac boots into a GUI. I doubt XP is a full GUI and does
> not have command prompt instructions in BIOS, but perhaps I am wrong.

Well, I think You don't really know what a BIOS is and what an operating 
system does. Even in MacOS 9 (and also not in X) the OS is not GUI. The GUI 
is just an interface to communicate with the OS and applications. Only 
because Apple did not provide a CLI (command line interface) in MacOS up to 
9 doesn't mean the GUI is the OS.

And a BIOS has nothing to do with an operating system, it's a chip that 
contains a bootup code to initialize the hardware and load the operating 
system, similar like the system firmware on a Mac.

Benjamin

-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

0
bgawert (1322)
12/12/2004 3:42:08 PM
Maybe I was confusing the HPC with a PC.  On my Windows CE HPC (not 
PocketPC, please get that straight) the OS is in the ROM.  I can do a 
hard reset, and I am back at the Windows CE HPC2000 desktop.  I never 
ever, have to engage anykind of CLI on many HPC's.  Newer HPC oses do 
include a CLI, but one is never required to use it.  

Maybe I confused things by saying DOS.  I should have said a CLI.  Sorry 
my fault.  But I thought people would have figured out that I made a 
mistake and understood what I meant.  My question was answered.  PC's 
are not as PURE of a GUI as the pre OSX macs.  


Thanks,


John



> 
> And a BIOS has nothing to do with an operating system, it's a chip that 
> contains a bootup code to initialize the hardware and load the operating 
> system, similar like the system firmware on a Mac.
> 
> Benjamin
0
johnw_94020 (381)
12/12/2004 4:14:37 PM
> > John
> 
> Well, you are. :) MS-DOS (or any other DOS) is an operating system, as 
> Windows XP is. So yes, you can buy a computer shipped with Windows XP, 
> wipe the hard drive out and install MS-DOS. And you'll have DOS. But 
> Windows XP doesn't have a "real" DOS, it only has a command line (much 
> like Terminal in Mac OS X).
> 
> And the BIOS has absolutely NO operating system of any kind, you can't 
> type any commands in it. It's just there to support basic operations for 
> the operating system, whatever it is (that's what BIOS means: Basic 
> Input Output System). It's far less sophisticated than the Open Firmware 
> of new world Macs.


Thanks.  I confused things by saying DOS.  I should have said CLI.  But 
the fact that one can even get a command prompt when one needs to 
perform severe disk editing chores or registry restore chores tells me 
something.  On my pre X Mac, when I created boot floppy disks for tasks 
such as defrag (this could be done on the OS 7.x version of Norton), 
disk editor and such I was in a GUI like environment.  No it was not the 
Mac OS, but it was a GUI like environment.  If you never had OS 7.x, and 
never used Norton to create such disks, then you will not understand 
what I am saying.  The advantage was I could create these boot floppies 
for others that did not own the CD.  The boot floppies worked well, and 
I wish current versions of Norton could do the same.  

On the PC when one needs to use a disk editor, one is required to use a 
CLI (yes I wont say DOS, but it looks like DOS).  There are times when I 
need to acces the disk edior for certain chores.  On the Mac its always 
done in a GUI, on the PC its always in a CLI.  


Maybe I mixed things up by saying DOS instead of CLI.


John
0
johnw_94020 (381)
12/12/2004 4:23:08 PM
In article <1102868073.c20c97582254ea20fdfe0f5b42ccb327@teranews>,
 John <johnw_94020@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Maybe I confused things by saying DOS.  I should have said a CLI.  Sorry 
> my fault.  But I thought people would have figured out that I made a 
> mistake and understood what I meant.  My question was answered.  PC's 
> are not as PURE of a GUI as the pre OSX macs.  

You are severely confused.    DOS has nothing to do with XP.   CLI has 
nothing to do with anything.    You can load several OSes on any PC, 
from DOS to Linux to BSD to Windows 2000/XP/whatever to OS/2 to Solaris.

The fact that you can load DOS has nothing to do with anything.   The 
GUI is just part of the OS.   You can install Darwin on a Mac and boot 
into a CLI only - no GUI at all.   You can install Linux on a Mac and 
boot into a CLI only.

You are confusing GUIs with OSes.   One has nothing to do with the 
other.   There is nothing "pure GUI" about anything.   

Mike
0
abc32 (1116)
12/13/2004 2:54:51 AM
Gregory Weston a �crit :
> In article <41bc25e8$0$32407$636a15ce@news.free.fr>,
>  Paig Chong Woo <cwpaigAT@valkenDOT.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>>And the BIOS has absolutely NO operating system of any kind, you can't 
>>type any commands in it. It's just there to support basic operations for 
>>the operating system, whatever it is (that's what BIOS means: Basic 
>>Input Output System). It's far less sophisticated than the Open Firmware 
>>of new world Macs.
> 
> 
> Nit: OF (on Macs) predates the New World systems by years.
> 

I didn't know, thanks for correction. :)
0
cwpaigAT (10)
12/13/2004 6:06:27 AM
>Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS written on their BIOS chip?

No PC has EVER had DOS written "on the BIOS chip." DOS is an operating system
that loads from a floppy or hard disk. It emphatically is not, and never has
been, on the BIOS.

>I 
>have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP on a newer Dell 
>or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt? 

In theory, yes, though you would not have the use of your FireWire, USB, or
other modern hardware, you can't use a hard drive larger than a certain size
(320 MB? 32 GB? I forget), and so on. One wonders what you hope to gain by
doing this.

>Most PC people claim 
>that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its OS like Windows 98 
>or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip but I do not believe 
>it. 

Why don't you believe it? It's true.


-- 
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

0
tacitr (1750)
12/13/2004 4:37:08 PM
John wrote:
> Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS written on their BIOS chip?  I 
> have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP on a newer Dell 
> or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt?  Most PC people claim 
> that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its OS like Windows 98 
> or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip but I do not believe 
> it.  I have not tried inserting a DOS boot floppy, and testing it for 
> myself.   In my 98 machine I can boot from a floppy, wipe out the hard 
> drive, partition and then do a format C: /s and the machine will boot 
> with only DOS.  I wonder if XP works the same.  

In windows 95-98-ME DOS booted up first and then Windows was loaded on 
top of it and it was possible to execute DOS commands from windows which 
could completely mess up the system. Also you could execute BIOS 
requests from DOS or Windows and mess with some hardware parameters. 
Don't try this unless you know what you are doing.

Windows NT/2000/XP directly boot without DOS.

All these systems have DOS capability in a Windows application called 
Command or Command Prompt which allow you to execute DOS commands.  This 
is similar to Terminal in OSX.
0
john83 (10)
12/14/2004 7:38:37 PM
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