hi, 
i am a little greenhorn using a mac - why? 
well,
what did i do:

i connected my external disk to the new macbook pro (Mac OS X 10.5.1)
i uses iTunes for music, opened some excel files ... etc - just worked with
the book and this disk.
then i saw in the finder the search option with different possibilities to
search for something (today, yesterday, last week, all pictures, all videos,
and all documents). and i choose "all documents" and saw a huge list with
many many files - all different, music, pictures ... everything.
and then i made the big mistake - dont ask me why i did this ... i selected
all and deleted them.
bang - and then i saw that the macbook was working a short time, and this
made me nervous, because i thought these were just "alias" files and not the
originals. but they where the originals.
the second mistake was not to press "apple + z" 
i looked in the trash and it was full with files ... about 8500 different
files.
and then i looked to the external disk - the folders were all there, every
folder - but empty.
so i just deleted the files, not the folders.
i ejected the disk and went to the pc laptop and saw three hidden files - one
was ".trashes" and one was ".Temporary Items" and one was ".Spotlight-V100"

in the .trashes folder, all the files are inside
in the .temporary Items folder is again a folder called "folders.501" and in
this folder  is nothing (in a windows machine explorer)
in the spotlight-V100 is again a folder - called "store-V1" and in this  a
file called "volumeConfig.plist" and a folder called "stores" 
in this stores folder is again a folder " EC16D423-4FE5-48C8-BE11-......" in
there are about 60 different files.

so i copied this tree hidden folder, and all the things in there.
the files i throw in the trash are not lost now.
ok fine, but they are not in the folders they should be.

i cannot copy them each by each in back to the folder they belong to, because
there are many many files i dont know where they belong to exactly.
for example i have a lot of mp3 files titled "artist 1" ... so which artist
is it - in which folder do i have to put it.

timemachine i did not use at that time - so this is no solution.
also a recoveryproram i have tried out - but this just look at the empty
space if there was a file, if yes you can recover it but on a different space
(on an other disk is recommended) and not in the belonging folder.

i hope that there is a solution to this problem.
maybe each file has an "address" where it comes from ...
maybe mac makes a "historyfile" in the trash - i did not see yet. 
maybe ... you have the solution

please help me - thanks alot ...

"MatthiasHager" <u40579@uwe> wrote:

> i connected my external disk to the new macbook pro (Mac OS X 10.5.1)
> i uses iTunes for music, opened some excel files ... etc - just worked with
> the book and this disk.
> then i saw in the finder the search option with different possibilities to
> search for something (today, yesterday, last week, all pictures, all videos,
> and all documents). and i choose "all documents" and saw a huge list with
> many many files - all different, music, pictures ... everything.
> and then i made the big mistake - dont ask me why i did this ... i selected
> all and deleted them.

That wasn't a good idea.

> bang - and then i saw that the macbook was working a short time, and this
> made me nervous, because i thought these were just "alias" files and not the
> originals. but they where the originals.
> the second mistake was not to press "apple + z" 
> i looked in the trash and it was full with files ... about 8500 different
> files.

Correct. If you did an Undo at this point, everything would have gone
back where it came from.

As you didn't undo, there is no way to put the files back in the correct
places, except by doing it manually.

> and then i looked to the external disk - the folders were all there, every
> folder - but empty.
> so i just deleted the files, not the folders.

Strictly speaking, you moved the files to the trash. They haven't been
deleted until you empty the trash.

> i ejected the disk and went to the pc laptop and saw three hidden files - one
> was ".trashes" and one was ".Temporary Items" and one was ".Spotlight-V100"
> 
> in the .trashes folder, all the files are inside

Good. At least you can get them back again, but will have a lot of work
to rearrange them.

> in the .temporary Items folder is again a folder called "folders.501" and in
> this folder  is nothing (in a windows machine explorer)
> in the spotlight-V100 is again a folder - called "store-V1" and in this  a
> file called "volumeConfig.plist" and a folder called "stores" 
> in this stores folder is again a folder " EC16D423-4FE5-48C8-BE11-......" in
> there are about 60 different files.

You can completely ignore everything which was inside the spotlight-V100
folder. That is the Spotlight search index for the volume. You can't do
anything useful with it. If you moved it elsewhere or deleted it, then
Mac OS X will recreate it the next time you connect that hard drive to a
Mac (running 10.4 or later).

> so i copied this tree hidden folder, and all the things in there.
> the files i throw in the trash are not lost now.
> ok fine, but they are not in the folders they should be.

As a starting point, sorting the files by Kind (Type or Extension) may
help. See if you can reduce the scope of the problem by setting up new
temporary folders to store sets of files which you can identify, and use
them to group all of the unsorted mess of original files. You should
eventually be able to get all of your important files sorted out, and
may be left with other files you can't identify.

> i cannot copy them each by each in back to the folder they belong to, because
> there are many many files i dont know where they belong to exactly.
> for example i have a lot of mp3 files titled "artist 1" ... so which artist
> is it - in which folder do i have to put it.

If they were being managed by iTunes then you should be able to reload
them all back into the iTunes library.

This will be a rather time consuming process.

If you have files titled "artist 1" that probably means you hadn't
turned on the iTunes option to keep its music folder organised, as this
will rename all the files and folders with artist and track names, and
group them into folders in a structure it likes.

This will be the easiest way to sort out the mess. The catch is that it
will rename all of the music files for you. If you don't want them
renamed, then you will have to do it all by hand (though iTunes might be
able to assist by at least letting you identify what each file is).

Another point is that iTunes maintains an XML file which contains all
the data from the music library (iTunes Music Library.xml). This may
contain enough information for you to be able to identify where all the
files belong. The problem is that reading it by hand and processing all
the files will take a huge amount of effort.

> timemachine i did not use at that time - so this is no solution.
> also a recoveryproram i have tried out - but this just look at the empty
> space if there was a file, if yes you can recover it but on a different space
> (on an other disk is recommended) and not in the belonging folder.

There is no recovery software which will help.

> i hope that there is a solution to this problem.
> maybe each file has an "address" where it comes from ...

Nope. Once you've moved it to trash, Finder briefly remembers (in
memory) where every file came from, but if you don't use the Undo
command immediately, there is no record of where each file came from.

> maybe mac makes a "historyfile" in the trash - i did not see yet. 

No, sorry.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> > i hope that there is a solution to this problem.
> > maybe each file has an "address" where it comes from ...
> 
> Nope. Once you've moved it to trash, Finder briefly remembers (in
> memory) where every file came from, but if you don't use the Undo
> command immediately, there is no record of where each file came from.

I seem to remember that this was different long ago in OS 9.
Wasn't there a (contextual) menu item to "put back" a file recently
moved?

Must've been Cmd-y then.


Gerhard
-- 
"Ich habe ja nichts zu verbergen".
Nunja:
<http://daten-speicherung.de/wiki/index.php/
F�lle_von_Datenmissbrauch_und_-irrt�mern>

Gerhard Torges <deaf_null@hotmail.com> wrote:

> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> 
> > > i hope that there is a solution to this problem.
> > > maybe each file has an "address" where it comes from ...
> > 
> > Nope. Once you've moved it to trash, Finder briefly remembers (in
> > memory) where every file came from, but if you don't use the Undo
> > command immediately, there is no record of where each file came from.
> 
> I seem to remember that this was different long ago in OS 9.
> Wasn't there a (contextual) menu item to "put back" a file recently
> moved?
> 
> Must've been Cmd-y then.

Yes, that does sound familiar. It was certainly true for files on the
desktop - you could put them back where they came from with the Put Away
command, and it rings a bell for the trash as well.

The trash and desktop are implemented differently on Mac OS X, and Apple
appear to have lost this feature (or perhaps it is yet another one that
they haven't got around to adding back again).

Put Away was only possible on HFS (and presumably HFS+) volumes, as it
depends on a field in the directory which keeps track of where a file
was originally located. This field doesn't exist on non-Mac file
systems, so perhaps Apple chose to not support this feature because it
would only work for some file systems (though admittedly the most
commonly used ones).

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

In article <1ibfdfo.eeg0qh1n7fakfN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
 dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:

> Gerhard Torges <deaf_null@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > 
> > > > i hope that there is a solution to this problem.
> > > > maybe each file has an "address" where it comes from ...
> > > 
> > > Nope. Once you've moved it to trash, Finder briefly remembers (in
> > > memory) where every file came from, but if you don't use the Undo
> > > command immediately, there is no record of where each file came from.
> > 
> > I seem to remember that this was different long ago in OS 9.
> > Wasn't there a (contextual) menu item to "put back" a file recently
> > moved?
> > 
> > Must've been Cmd-y then.
> 
> Yes, that does sound familiar. It was certainly true for files on the
> desktop - you could put them back where they came from with the Put Away
> command, and it rings a bell for the trash as well.

In OS X you can 'undo' a move with command-z

-- 
Bart: This is the worst day of my life.
Homer: This is the worst day of your life SO FAR.

In article <gkreme-F73D2C.18215327012008@news.giganews.com>,
 Lewis <gkreme@gmail.com> wrote:

> In OS X you can 'undo' a move with command-z

More specifically, in OS X 10.4 or later.

-- 
Support the troops:  Bring them home ASAP.

Lewis <gkreme@gmail.com> wrote:

> In article <1ibfdfo.eeg0qh1n7fakfN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
>  dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
> 
> > Gerhard Torges <deaf_null@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > i hope that there is a solution to this problem.
> > > > > maybe each file has an "address" where it comes from ...
> > > > 
> > > > Nope. Once you've moved it to trash, Finder briefly remembers (in
> > > > memory) where every file came from, but if you don't use the Undo
> > > > command immediately, there is no record of where each file came from.
> > > 
> > > I seem to remember that this was different long ago in OS 9.
> > > Wasn't there a (contextual) menu item to "put back" a file recently
> > > moved?
> > > 
> > > Must've been Cmd-y then.
> > 
> > Yes, that does sound familiar. It was certainly true for files on the
> > desktop - you could put them back where they came from with the Put Away
> > command, and it rings a bell for the trash as well.
> 
> In OS X you can 'undo' a move with command-z

Yes, but only if it was the most recent operation.

In Mac OS 9 you can come back some time later (including after a
restart), select an item in the trash and put it away. The file has
actually been moved to the trash, but the file system records where it
was previously located.

Mac OS X doesn't go that far. Finder's undo only keeps a record of the
files' previous locations in memory, so it is gone as soon as you do
anything else which Finder can undo.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

In article <1ibg9ps.z3virs1pf6nswN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
 dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:

> Lewis <gkreme@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1ibfdfo.eeg0qh1n7fakfN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
> >  dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
> > 
> > > Gerhard Torges <deaf_null@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > i hope that there is a solution to this problem.
> > > > > > maybe each file has an "address" where it comes from ...
> > > > > 
> > > > > Nope. Once you've moved it to trash, Finder briefly remembers (in
> > > > > memory) where every file came from, but if you don't use the Undo
> > > > > command immediately, there is no record of where each file came from.
> > > > 
> > > > I seem to remember that this was different long ago in OS 9.
> > > > Wasn't there a (contextual) menu item to "put back" a file recently
> > > > moved?
> > > > 
> > > > Must've been Cmd-y then.
> > > 
> > > Yes, that does sound familiar. It was certainly true for files on the
> > > desktop - you could put them back where they came from with the Put Away
> > > command, and it rings a bell for the trash as well.
> > 
> > In OS X you can 'undo' a move with command-z
> 
> Yes, but only if it was the most recent operation.
> 
> In Mac OS 9 you can come back some time later (including after a
> restart), select an item in the trash and put it away. The file has
> actually been moved to the trash, but the file system records where it
> was previously located.
> 
> Mac OS X doesn't go that far. Finder's undo only keeps a record of the
> files' previous locations in memory, so it is gone as soon as you do
> anything else which Finder can undo.

If the file is larger than the space left in the hard drive, the only 
way to retrieve it might be to plug in another hard drive.  At least 
that option is available and can be used if the information has to be 
retrieved.

In article <noemailhere-CC0809.11164628012008@news.mts.net>,
 The New guy <noemailhere@please.comm> wrote:

> In article <1ibg9ps.z3virs1pf6nswN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
>  dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
> 
> > Lewis <gkreme@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <1ibfdfo.eeg0qh1n7fakfN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
> > >  dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Gerhard Torges <deaf_null@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > i hope that there is a solution to this problem. maybe 
> > > > > > > each file has an "address" where it comes from ...
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Nope. Once you've moved it to trash, Finder briefly 
> > > > > > remembers (in memory) where every file came from, but if 
> > > > > > you don't use the Undo command immediately, there is no 
> > > > > > record of where each file came from.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I seem to remember that this was different long ago in OS 9. 
> > > > > Wasn't there a (contextual) menu item to "put back" a file 
> > > > > recently moved?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Must've been Cmd-y then.
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, that does sound familiar. It was certainly true for files 
> > > > on the desktop - you could put them back where they came from 
> > > > with the Put Away command, and it rings a bell for the trash as 
> > > > well.
> > > 
> > > In OS X you can 'undo' a move with command-z
> > 
> > Yes, but only if it was the most recent operation.
> > 
> > In Mac OS 9 you can come back some time later (including after a
> > restart), select an item in the trash and put it away. The file has
> > actually been moved to the trash, but the file system records where it
> > was previously located.
> > 
> > Mac OS X doesn't go that far. Finder's undo only keeps a record of the
> > files' previous locations in memory, so it is gone as soon as you do
> > anything else which Finder can undo.
> 
> If the file is larger than the space left in the hard drive, the only 
> way to retrieve it might be to plug in another hard drive.  At least 
> that option is available and can be used if the information has to be 
> retrieved.

I think the file under discussion is in the Trash.  Any file, regardless 
of size, can be moved to or from the Trash to a folder on the same 
volume with no impact on available space.

-- 
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint =  5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3  7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Put Away was only possible on HFS (and presumably HFS+) volumes, as it
> depends on a field in the directory which keeps track of where a file
> was originally located. This field doesn't exist on non-Mac file
> systems, so perhaps Apple chose to not support this feature because it
> would only work for some file systems (though admittedly the most
> commonly used ones).

On Tiger or Leopard systems, a mechanism like this should b e easy to
implement via the various metadata extensions in the FS.


Gerhard

-- 
"Ich habe ja nichts zu verbergen".
Nunja:
<http://daten-speicherung.de/wiki/index.php/
F�lle_von_Datenmissbrauch_und_-irrt�mern>

Gerhard Torges <deaf_null@hotmail.com> wrote:

> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> 
> > Put Away was only possible on HFS (and presumably HFS+) volumes, as it
> > depends on a field in the directory which keeps track of where a file
> > was originally located. This field doesn't exist on non-Mac file
> > systems, so perhaps Apple chose to not support this feature because it
> > would only work for some file systems (though admittedly the most
> > commonly used ones).
> 
> On Tiger or Leopard systems, a mechanism like this should b e easy to
> implement via the various metadata extensions in the FS.

Can foreign file systems hold extended attributes (e.g. in the ._xxx
files)?

For HFS and HFS+ this wouldn't be necessary - the directory entry will
stll have the field for the ID of the original parent folder which Mac
OS 9 is using.

Apple just haven't (re)implemented this feature in Mac OS X Finder.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

On 2008-01-27 15:35:18 -0800, dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) said:

> The trash and desktop are implemented differently on Mac OS X, and Apple
> appear to have lost this feature (or perhaps it is yet another one that
> they haven't got around to adding back again).

The trash and desktop are pretty much the same in Mac OS X as they've 
been since System 7. I don't know why Apple hasn't done this yet, 
unless it's just that the scale of things has increased since those 
days.

David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Apple just haven't (re)implemented this feature in Mac OS X Finder.

Perhaps in 10.6.
Like Labels in 10.4. 


Gerhard

-- 
"Ich habe ja nichts zu verbergen".
Nunja:
<http://daten-speicherung.de/wiki/index.php/
F�lle_von_Datenmissbrauch_und_-irrt�mern>

In article <1ibi748.2lbuejx8tgaoN%deaf_null@hotmail.com>, Gerhard
Torges <deaf_null@hotmail.com> wrote:

> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> 
> > Apple just haven't (re)implemented this feature in Mac OS X Finder.
> 
> Perhaps in 10.6.
> Like Labels in 10.4. 

labels were added in 10.2 or 10.3 (i can't remember which).  either
way, it was quite a while ago (4-5 years).

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <1ibi748.2lbuejx8tgaoN%deaf_null@hotmail.com>, Gerhard
> Torges <deaf_null@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > 
> > > Apple just haven't (re)implemented this feature in Mac OS X Finder.
> > 
> > Perhaps in 10.6.
> > Like Labels in 10.4. 
> 
> labels were added in 10.2 or 10.3 (i can't remember which).

It was 10.3.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

In article <1ibj5z8.sn3n9w1vrbdnhN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson
<dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1ibi748.2lbuejx8tgaoN%deaf_null@hotmail.com>, Gerhard
> > Torges <deaf_null@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Apple just haven't (re)implemented this feature in Mac OS X Finder.
> > > 
> > > Perhaps in 10.6.
> > > Like Labels in 10.4. 
> > 
> > labels were added in 10.2 or 10.3 (i can't remember which).
> 
> It was 10.3.

It was System 5.0 (System file 4.2 / Finder 6.0).

-- 
Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Dave Balderstone <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:

> > > labels were added in 10.2 or 10.3 (i can't remember which).
> > 
> > It was 10.3.
> 
> It was System 5.0 (System file 4.2 / Finder 6.0).

Yeah, and continued through Mac OS 9.  Labels were dropped from Mac OS X
10.0 and 10.1, though, and reintroduced in 10.2 or 10.3.

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