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Help needed : Mac OS X & OS 9.x and Windows-Server

Until now we are using different Mac's running OS 9.1 and 9.2 and save our
files on a Windows 2000 Server via MacServerIP (AFP over IP). In the next
time we like to upgrade to OS X.

Our problem: Files saved on the Server from OS 9 via AFP will be recognized
by OS X as "Document" without application information. I tried to connect
the Server via SMB and otherwise via AFP. When I manually used AFP
("afp://<servername>") the volume becomes visible, but if I try to select on
file the file will be go away. Next time I connect to the volume the file is
visible again. Using OS 9.x the file will be recognized as Quark XPress
Document.

How can I use the same files on Mac OS X and OS 9 while the files are
located on a Windows-Server ?
Why are files disapearing when clicked (not when SMB is used) ?

Systems-details:
G4-Mac's with OS 9.1 to 9.2.2 / OS X 10.2.6
Windows 2000 Server with MacServerIP 7.0 (SFM-Service installed but
stopped - not needed for MacServerIP)

Thomas


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t.mueller (2)
6/24/2003 5:10:29 AM
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In <bd8mgb$9t7$1@online.de>
 Thomas M´┐Żller <t.mueller@dhtm.de> wrote:
  
> Our problem: Files saved on the Server from OS 9 via AFP will be recognized
> by OS X as "Document" without application information. I tried to connect
> the Server via SMB and otherwise via AFP. When I manually used AFP
> ("afp://<servername>") the volume becomes visible, but if I try to select on
> file the file will be go away. Next time I connect to the volume the file is
> visible again. Using OS 9.x the file will be recognized as Quark XPress
> Document.

I remember running into this problem a while back with a Win2K server
running SFM. The problem was that resource forks were stored differently by
OS9 and OS X. In OS9, the resource forks for the files in a directory were 
stored in a hidden directory called ".AppleDouble". Each resource fork was
contained in a file with the same name as the data fork's file name. 

With OS X, the resource forks were stored in the same folder with the same
filename as the data fork, but preceeded by "._". 

So, OS X would store a file name "blah" in a folder on the Win2K server as
"blah" and "._blah". OS 9 would store "blah" as "blah" and
".AppleDouble/blah". The problem that you have occurs because OS X won't
use OS 9-style resource forks, and vice versa.

Any dotfiles will be invisible to the OS X Finder, although you can access
them with Terminal. The .AppleDouble directories are invisible to the OS 9
Finder, but the ._ files are visible. If you attempt to select one of
these, the Finder may freak out, for lack of a better term. 

I think that NTFS manages the OS 9-style forks, but that OS X is detecting
a non-HFS+ filesystem and managing its own forks, leading to "issues".

I'm not sure why the file disappears - I suspect it's an issue with SFM
trying to associate the resource fork when OS X requests a file, and OS X
trying to use the resource fork file it stored. That's sheer conjecture
with potentially no basis in reality, however.


> How can I use the same files on Mac OS X and OS 9 while the files are 
> located on a Windows-Server ?

If you open the file from within the application, instead of
double-clicking it to open it, does the file open as it should? That's what
I trained users who experienced this problem to do. No one in our
department used Quark XPress, which I believe had its own variety of quirks
as regards AFP and storing files on networked volumes, so I can't help you
there. 

I also just gave up and used SMB for my own needs.

Unfortunately, I never found a working solution for this. I was also not
the Windows admin, and the Windows admin tended to blame the Macs, so there
really just wasn't much happening there. Then I took a new position in
another department, and never got back to it. You might want to try looking
through the discussions section of Apple's support site for others
experiencing this problem. I found macwindows.com to be utterly useless and
outdated.




        J.
0
hacksaw (46)
6/25/2003 12:25:09 AM
Hello Jennifer,

terribly in Quark-XPress 4 (and older) is no way to open files which are 
not known as "Quark XPress Document". When You open a folder it will 
only show this known files (and there is no button to select "show all 
files").

But I found the problem and a solution:
The version of MacServerIP we used (V7, build 1.123) on the Server is 
not usable with OSX-Clients. We need to upgrade to V8 Bild 2.148 (latest 
build, older V8 builds have the same problems).
Using this version the icons are not disappearing when selected and the 
document types are ok => so we can use AFP connections from OS9 and OSX 
to access the files.

The best solution would be that Cyan-Software creates a new version of 
MacServerIP, which can convert or (at least) use the resourcefork- 
information of SMB _AND_ AFP stored files on a Windows Server (so that a 
file saved with SMB is readable using AFP and also in the other direction).


Thomas


Jennifer Mullen schrieb:
> I remember running into this problem a while back with a Win2K server
> running SFM. The problem was that resource forks were stored differently by
> OS9 and OS X. In OS9, the resource forks for the files in a directory were 
> stored in a hidden directory called ".AppleDouble". Each resource fork was
> contained in a file with the same name as the data fork's file name. 
> 
> With OS X, the resource forks were stored in the same folder with the same
> filename as the data fork, but preceeded by "._". 
> 
> So, OS X would store a file name "blah" in a folder on the Win2K server as
> "blah" and "._blah". OS 9 would store "blah" as "blah" and
> ".AppleDouble/blah". The problem that you have occurs because OS X won't
> use OS 9-style resource forks, and vice versa.
> 
> Any dotfiles will be invisible to the OS X Finder, although you can access
> them with Terminal. The .AppleDouble directories are invisible to the OS 9
> Finder, but the ._ files are visible. If you attempt to select one of
> these, the Finder may freak out, for lack of a better term. 
> 
> I think that NTFS manages the OS 9-style forks, but that OS X is detecting
> a non-HFS+ filesystem and managing its own forks, leading to "issues".
> 
> I'm not sure why the file disappears - I suspect it's an issue with SFM
> trying to associate the resource fork when OS X requests a file, and OS X
> trying to use the resource fork file it stored. That's sheer conjecture
> with potentially no basis in reality, however.
....
> If you open the file from within the application, instead of
> double-clicking it to open it, does the file open as it should? That's what
> I trained users who experienced this problem to do. No one in our
> department used Quark XPress, which I believe had its own variety of quirks
> as regards AFP and storing files on networked volumes, so I can't help you
> there. 
> 
> I also just gave up and used SMB for my own needs.
> 
> Unfortunately, I never found a working solution for this. I was also not
> the Windows admin, and the Windows admin tended to blame the Macs, so there
> really just wasn't much happening there. Then I took a new position in
> another department, and never got back to it. You might want to try looking
> through the discussions section of Apple's support site for others
> experiencing this problem. I found macwindows.com to be utterly useless and
> outdated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>         J.

0
t.mueller (2)
6/25/2003 2:26:54 PM
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