Well that's interesting... You all probably know about this, but I 
didn't. 

I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any 
software updates. 

Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App 
Store... 

Looks like they're integrating a lot of things across the board.

-- 

"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones

On 8/1/12 1:50 PM, MC wrote:
> I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
> software updates.
>
> Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
> Store...

You can steal the -old version- of Software Update from 
Lion, and put it into your Applications or Utilities folder, 
double-click it, and it will run, "just like before".

In article <501bfb67$0$14582$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com>,
 John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> wrote:

> On 8/1/12 1:50 PM, MC wrote:
> > I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
> > software updates.
> >
> > Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
> > Store...
> 
> You can steal the -old version- of Software Update from 
> Lion, and put it into your Applications or Utilities folder, 
> double-click it, and it will run, "just like before".

I don't mind the new way so long as it works... and I assume it does.

-- 

"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones

Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been 
any updates yet though?


On 8/1/2012 10:50 AM PT, MC typed:

> Well that's interesting... You all probably know about this, but I
> didn't.
>
> I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
> software updates.
>
> Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
> Store...
>
> Looks like they're integrating a lot of things across the board.
-- 
"Number fourteen. The naughty bits of an ant." --Monty Python's Flying 
Circus
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
A song is/was playing on this computer: The Hit Crew - The Safety Dance

In article <CaKdnXp5QJmij4HNnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
 Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 8/1/2012 10:50 AM PT, MC typed:
> 
> > Well that's interesting... You all probably know about this, but I
> > didn't.
> >
> > I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
> > software updates.
> >
> > Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
> > Store...
> >
> > Looks like they're integrating a lot of things across the board.

> Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been 
> any updates yet though?
> 
> 

I haven't seen any.

-- 

"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones

On 8/3/2012 11:12 AM PT, MC typed:

>>> Well that's interesting... You all probably know about this, but I
>>> didn't.
>>>
>>> I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
>>> software updates.
>>>
>>> Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
>>> Store...
>>>
>>> Looks like they're integrating a lot of things across the board.
>
>> Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been
>> any updates yet though?
>
> I haven't seen any.

Thanks. I wonder what it would look like if there were updates. :)
-- 
"I love ants. Do they have uncles? Ha Ha!" --Elmo from Sesame Street 
(unknown episode)
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
A song is/was playing on this computer: The Karaoke Channel - The Safety 
Dance (In the Style of Men Without Hats) [Karaoke Lead Vocal Version]

In article <bJ6dnYD5c-lBiYHNnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
 Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 8/3/2012 11:12 AM PT, MC typed:
> 
> >>> Well that's interesting... You all probably know about this, but I
> >>> didn't.
> >>>
> >>> I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
> >>> software updates.
> >>>
> >>> Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
> >>> Store...
> >>>
> >>> Looks like they're integrating a lot of things across the board.
> >
> >> Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been
> >> any updates yet though?
> >
> > I haven't seen any.
> 
> Thanks. I wonder what it would look like if there were updates. :)

The App Store icon gets a number [of updates pending] badge.

-- 
PRAY, v.  To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf
of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy. -- Ambrose Bierce

On 08/03/2012 03:10 PM, Tom Stiller wrote:
> In article <bJ6dnYD5c-lBiYHNnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>   Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>> On 8/3/2012 11:12 AM PT, MC typed:
>>
>>>>> Well that's interesting... You all probably know about this, but I
>>>>> didn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
>>>>> software updates.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
>>>>> Store...
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like they're integrating a lot of things across the board.
>>>
>>>> Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been
>>>> any updates yet though?
>>>
>>> I haven't seen any.
>>
>> Thanks. I wonder what it would look like if there were updates. :)
>
> The App Store icon gets a number [of updates pending] badge.

I think there's usually a number in a tiny red circle or something like 
that.

When I clicked Software Update it takes me to the App Store where it 
will say Checking for Updates then that none are available.

I went ahead and shelled out 20 bucks for the upgrade to Mountain Lion 
last night. The only real complaint I have it it changed my resolution 
from 720 ro 1080 and all the icons and text were tiny. I set it back to 720.

Camino wasn't launching, so I kicked it to the curb, which I was 
thinking of doing anyway.

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been
> any updates yet though?

Yes, I got updates to iPhoto and some other applications which I had
originally installed from DVD.

Things previously delivered via Software Update appear in a list at the
top of the "Updates" page in App Store, with a dividing line separating
them from App Store updates. The general appearance of each item is
similar to updates for App Store purchases, with the description and an
indication of whether a restart is required, but it doesn't have the
ability to go to a full window detail page like you can with an App
update.

The underlying mechanism for handling OS-level software updates is the
same as for Lion and earlier (e.g. the command line tools are the same,
and the online update checks and downloads come from the same servers).
It is just the user interface which shifted into App Store.

My only complaint about the new user interface: App Store does not show
the size of the downloads before you click on the button to download the
update. If I'm on a slow or expensive broadband connection, I want to
know whether I can justify downloading an update now, or should wait
until I'm at home.

The size is displayed after it starts downloading, and it can be paused,
so it is manageable, just a minor irritation.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

In message <501bfb67$0$14582$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com> 
  John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> wrote:
> On 8/1/12 1:50 PM, MC wrote:
>> I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
>> software updates.
>>
>> Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
>> Store...

> You can steal the -old version- of Software Update from 
> Lion, and put it into your Applications or Utilities folder, 
> double-click it, and it will run, "just like before".

Why?

-- 
WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN --Feet of Clay

In message <copespaz-C5FC86.14123103082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
  MC <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
> In article <CaKdnXp5QJmij4HNnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>  Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>> On 8/1/2012 10:50 AM PT, MC typed:
>> 
>> > Well that's interesting... You all probably know about this, but I
>> > didn't.
>> >
>> > I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
>> > software updates.
>> >
>> > Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
>> > Store...
>> >
>> > Looks like they're integrating a lot of things across the board.

>> Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been 
>> any updates yet though?

> I haven't seen any.

I got updates for iWork and iPhoto.

-- 
Up the airy mountains, down the rushy glen...  From ghosties and bogles
and long-leggity beasties...  My mother said I never should...  We dare
not go a-hunting for fear...  And things that go bump...  Play with the
fairies in the wood... --Lords and Ladies

On 8/3/2012 10:58 PM PT, Lewis typed:

> I got updates for iWork and iPhoto.

Did they just come out today? I am not on my work's Mac machines to 
check. I didn't see them yesterday. ;)
-- 
"I made my list for my birthday." --Christopher. "Yeah, what'd you put 
on there? - A basketball or an ant farm." and "This could be an ant 
farm. This could be a microscope or anything." --Chris from The Pursuit 
of Happyness movie.
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

On 8/3/2012 10:03 PM PT, David Empson typed:

>> Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been
>> any updates yet though?
>
> Yes, I got updates to iPhoto and some other applications which I had
> originally installed from DVD.

Wait, Recent Mac OS X versions doesn't come with iPhoto and others 
anymore?  I know 10.5.x came with iPhoto preinstalled. Hmm, I think I 
remember not seeing them in Mac OS X 10.7.x and 10.8. :(


> Things previously delivered via Software Update appear in a list at the
> top of the "Updates" page in App Store, with a dividing line separating
> them from App Store updates. The general appearance of each item is
> similar to updates for App Store purchases, with the description and an
> indication of whether a restart is required, but it doesn't have the
> ability to go to a full window detail page like you can with an App
> update.
>
> The underlying mechanism for handling OS-level software updates is the
> same as for Lion and earlier (e.g. the command line tools are the same,
> and the online update checks and downloads come from the same servers).
> It is just the user interface which shifted into App Store.
>
> My only complaint about the new user interface: App Store does not show
> the size of the downloads before you click on the button to download the
> update. If I'm on a slow or expensive broadband connection, I want to
> know whether I can justify downloading an update now, or should wait
> until I'm at home.
>
> The size is displayed after it starts downloading, and it can be paused,
> so it is manageable, just a minor irritation.

Yeah, that sucks. I hope someone will find a way to show them with a 
tool, hack, etc. soon.
-- 
"This isn't a war. It never was a war, any more than there's war between 
man and ants." --artilleryman from H.G. Wells' The War of the Worlds
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

On 2012-08-04 12:26 AM Ant wrote:
> On 8/3/2012 10:03 PM PT, David Empson typed:
>
>>> Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been
>>> any updates yet though?
>>
>> Yes, I got updates to iPhoto and some other applications which I had
>> originally installed from DVD.
>
> Wait, Recent Mac OS X versions doesn't come with iPhoto and others anymore?  I know 10.5.x 
> came with iPhoto preinstalled. Hmm, I think I remember not seeing them in Mac OS X 10.7.x and 
> 10.8. :(

All new Macs come with iLife. It is not and never has been a part of OS X.

-- 
_________________________________

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 8/3/2012 10:03 PM PT, David Empson typed:
> 
> >> Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been
> >> any updates yet though?
> >
> > Yes, I got updates to iPhoto and some other applications which I had
> > originally installed from DVD.
> 
> Wait, Recent Mac OS X versions doesn't come with iPhoto and others 
> anymore?

You are mixing up two concepts.

New Macs come with a preinstalled copy of iLife. That doesn't make iLife
part of Mac OS X. Since 2004, Mac OS X and iLife have been separate
retail products.

If you erase the hard drive and install Mac OS X from a retail install
DVD (or an App Store download of Lion or later), there will not be any
iLife applications on the hard drive. For Macs which came with a DVD to
reinstall the bundled software (Snow Leopard or earlier), the iLife
applications can be reinstalled from that DVD.

Up until the introduction of Lion, if you wanted a newer version of
iLife than the one which came preinstalled with your computer, you
needed to buy it on retail DVD. Apple no longer sells iLife on DVD, but
you can probably find one via resellers or from second hand sources.

The iLife '11 versions of iPhoto, iMovie and Garageband can also be
purchased individually from the App Store to upgrade older versions
which came with earlier Macs. Until recently, all three were available
via App Store on Snow Leopard, but recent updates to iPhoto and iMovie
require Lion or later, so Snow Leopard users cannot purchase or download
them any more.

If your Mac came with Lion or later preinstalled, then the iLife
applications can be reinstalled by getting them from App Store, which
may require redeeming them first: App Store needs to identify that you
have a Mac which was new enough to come with Lion or later preinstalled.
I haven't done this myself yet so I don't know the precise details.

iLife '09 or earlier are always updated via Software Update.

iLife '11 is updated via Software Update if it came preinstalled on a
Mac which came with Snow Leopard or earlier, or if it was installed from
the iLife retail DVD.

iLife '11 is updated via App Store if it came preinstalled on a Mac
which came with Lion or later, or if the specific iLife '11 apps were
purchased from App Store.

The update user interface for both variants appears in App Store for
Mountain Lion, but they are handled in the same way as earlier systems
under the hood.

> I know 10.5.x came with iPhoto preinstalled.

It didn't, but a new Mac you bought which came with 10.5 (non-server)
preinstalled would have also had iLife (including iPhoto) preinstalled:
either iLife '08 or iLife '09, depending on whether the computer was
manufactured in 2007-2008 or early 2009.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 8/3/2012 10:58 PM PT, Lewis typed:
> 
> > I got updates for iWork and iPhoto.
> 
> Did they just come out today? I am not on my work's Mac machines to 
> check. I didn't see them yesterday. ;)

They were released the same day as Mountain Lion, to add support for new
features in Mountain Lion.

If you didn't have iWork '09 installed from a retail DVD, or iLife '11
installed from a retail DVD or preinstalled with Snow Leopard or
earlier, then you wouldn't have been notified of either of these
software updates.

There were also App Store updates of Pages, Numbers, Keynote, iPhoto and
iMovie for those who had bought these apps from the App Store or had
them preinstalled with Lion.

All these updates require Lion or later, so if you are still running
Snow Leopard or earlier, then Software Update or App Store would not
have offered them, and you cannot install them.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

In message <zs6dnWmUkI2aXYHNnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> 
  Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 8/3/2012 10:58 PM PT, Lewis typed:

>> I got updates for iWork and iPhoto.

> Did they just come out today? I am not on my work's Mac machines to 
> check. I didn't see them yesterday. ;)

No, a week or so ago. iWork specifically had an update to integrate with
iCloud; not sure what the iPhoto updated did, but it removed MobileMe
references.


-- 
RTFM replies are great, but please specify exactly which FM to R

In article <501bfb67$0$14582$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com>,
 John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> wrote:

> On 8/1/12 1:50 PM, MC wrote:
> > I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
> > software updates.
> >
> > Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
> > Store...
> 
> You can steal the -old version- of Software Update from 
> Lion, and put it into your Applications or Utilities folder, 
> double-click it, and it will run, "just like before".


No it doesn't. I copied SU from my 10.6 partition (Library/Core 
Services) and ran it. First it asked for my PW, then it seemed to run 
with the same progress bar but then the window just disappeared without 
closing the app.

-- 
m-m
Photo Gallery:
http://www.mhmyers.com

In article 
<nospam.m-m-603672.08395604082012@cpe-76-190-186-198.neo.res.rr.com>,
 M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:

> In article <501bfb67$0$14582$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com>,
>  John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> wrote:
> 
> > On 8/1/12 1:50 PM, MC wrote:
> > > I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
> > > software updates.
> > >
> > > Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
> > > Store...
> > 
> > You can steal the -old version- of Software Update from 
> > Lion, and put it into your Applications or Utilities folder, 
> > double-click it, and it will run, "just like before".
> 
> 
> No it doesn't. I copied SU from my 10.6 partition (Library/Core 
> Services) and ran it. First it asked for my PW, then it seemed to run 
> with the same progress bar but then the window just disappeared without 
> closing the app.


Correction to my own post. The SU app from 10.6 doesn't work. The one 
from 10.7 works like you said, "just like before".

Thanks for the tip.

-- 
m-m
Photo Gallery:
http://www.mhmyers.com

In article <slrnk1peh2.2ck6.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
 Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <copespaz-C5FC86.14123103082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
>   MC <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
> > In article <CaKdnXp5QJmij4HNnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> >  Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> 
> >> On 8/1/2012 10:50 AM PT, MC typed:
> >> 
> >> > Well that's interesting... You all probably know about this, but I
> >> > didn't.
> >> >
> >> > I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
> >> > software updates.
> >> >
> >> > Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
> >> > Store...
> >> >
> >> > Looks like they're integrating a lot of things across the board.
> 
> >> Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been 
> >> any updates yet though?
> 
> > I haven't seen any.
> 
> I got updates for iWork and iPhoto.

I paid the 100 bucks to apple so I have been through several builds of 
ML and there have been a lot of updates with the new method. In fact 
thats how ML build 4 and GM and Final were all delivered to me. Apple 
did not flag an update for ML final as it was said to be the same as GM 
but I DL it and installed it anyway.

On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 17:03:14 +1200, David Empson wrote:

> My only complaint about the new user interface: App Store does not show
> the size of the downloads before you click on the button to download the
> update. If I'm on a slow or expensive broadband connection, I want to
> know whether I can justify downloading an update now, or should wait
> until I'm at home.
> 
> The size is displayed after it starts downloading, and it can be paused,
> so it is manageable, just a minor irritation.

That is a valid criticism.  The super economy package my ISP was offering 
a few years ago had a low limit on downloads by today's standards, and 
above that charged per 50 MB download *started*.  It could cost you even 
if you decided to cancel that large download.

-- 
Paul Sture

M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:

> In article 
> <nospam.m-m-603672.08395604082012@cpe-76-190-186-198.neo.res.rr.com>,
>  M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> wrote:
> 
> > In article <501bfb67$0$14582$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com>,
> >  John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > On 8/1/12 1:50 PM, MC wrote:
> > > > I installed ML and out of interest checked to see if there were any
> > > > software updates.
> > > >
> > > > Instead of the Software Update window I'm used to, it launched App
> > > > Store...
> > > 
> > > You can steal the -old version- of Software Update from 
> > > Lion, and put it into your Applications or Utilities folder, 
> > > double-click it, and it will run, "just like before".
> > 
> > 
> > No it doesn't. I copied SU from my 10.6 partition (Library/Core 
> > Services) and ran it. First it asked for my PW, then it seemed to run
> > with the same progress bar but then the window just disappeared without
> > closing the app.
> 
> 
> Correction to my own post. The SU app from 10.6 doesn't work. The one
> from 10.7 works like you said, "just like before".
> 
> Thanks for the tip.

But still, Lewis's question is valid. Why?

The only benefit I can see to running Lion's "Software Update" on
Mountain Lion is if you like its user interface.

The only functional difference with App Store showing the software
updates is that it doesn't tell you how big they are before you start
downloading them.

The underlying mechanism is identical to Lion, and the command line tool
still works if that happens to be more convenient.

App Store also shows updates of apps purchased from the App Store under
your currently signed in Apple ID, but that is a separate list from the
software updates.

If I remember right, you do not need to sign in to App Store to get
software updates, but you do for app updates. (Need to test that again
when some more updates are available.)

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been
> > any updates yet though?
> 
> Yes, I got updates to iPhoto and some other applications which I had
> originally installed from DVD.
> 
> Things previously delivered via Software Update appear in a list at the
> top of the "Updates" page in App Store, with a dividing line separating
> them from App Store updates. The general appearance of each item is
> similar to updates for App Store purchases, with the description and an
> indication of whether a restart is required, but it doesn't have the
> ability to go to a full window detail page like you can with an App
> update.
> 
> The underlying mechanism for handling OS-level software updates is the
> same as for Lion and earlier (e.g. the command line tools are the same,
> and the online update checks and downloads come from the same servers).
> It is just the user interface which shifted into App Store.
> 
> My only complaint about the new user interface: App Store does not show
> the size of the downloads before you click on the button to download the
> update. If I'm on a slow or expensive broadband connection, I want to
> know whether I can justify downloading an update now, or should wait
> until I'm at home.
> 
> The size is displayed after it starts downloading, and it can be paused,
> so it is manageable, just a minor irritation.

I was offered another software update today (HP printer driver updates),
and I'll have to retract that last paragraph.

You cannot pause a Software Update download in App Store. (Only App
downloads can be paused.)

The only way I could stop an unexpectedly big software update download
would be to drop the Internet connection.

This is worthy of a bug report. I need to know whether it will be too
expensive to download a software update for my current Internet
connection.

One other point of note: it appears that getting a Software Update via
App Store does not require being signed in to your Apple ID. I was
signed in, but tested it by signing out: the software update was still
listed and I was able to download and install it by clicking the UPDATE
button.

(To be absolutely certain of this point, it would be necessary to sign
out of App Store then restart the computer, or try doing the update
under a different account on the computer which is not signed into App
Store.)

Another useful point to note: the latest batch of printer drivers still
support Snow Leopard, so Apple hasn't completely stopped updating Snow
Leopard yet. It still remains to be seen whether they will issue further
Safari and security updates.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

In message <1kokkjr.15p5jpy4l4699N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> 
  David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> One other point of note: it appears that getting a Software Update via
> App Store does not require being signed in to your Apple ID. I was
> signed in, but tested it by signing out: the software update was still
> listed and I was able to download and install it by clicking the UPDATE
> button.

Of course you don't have to be signed in. You do not even have to *have*
an apple ID to run software update.

-- 
in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <1kokkjr.15p5jpy4l4699N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> 
>   David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > One other point of note: it appears that getting a Software Update via
> > App Store does not require being signed in to your Apple ID. I was
> > signed in, but tested it by signing out: the software update was still
> > listed and I was able to download and install it by clicking the UPDATE
> > button.
> 
> Of course you don't have to be signed in. You do not even have to *have*
> an apple ID to run software update.

I didn't word the above very well, as I was missing the background
explanation.

I have seen some people asking (but I forget where) whether it was
necessary to have an Apple ID (and be signed in to it) for getting
software updates in Mountain Lion, because the user interface for
Software Update shifted into App Store, and App Store requires an Apple
ID to get app updates.

Apple's page on the subject doesn't distinguish between software update
and app updates, and suggests you might need an Apple ID and password.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1338

I was almost certain that getting software updates via App Store did not
require an Apple ID, because the underlying software update mechanism
used in Mountain Lion is mostly the same as earlier systems (apart from
improved security), and the command line tool doesn't require an Apple
ID. The only change is where the user interface is presented and what it
looks like.

For previous updates, I was already signed in to my Apple ID in App
Store when I installed them, so I couldn't tell whether App Store itself
expected an Apple ID (even if the Software Update engine did not).

With the latest batch of updates I deliberately signed out first to
prove that I could still get software updates using App Store, without
an Apple ID.

In all cases, I had the automatic download and install options disabled
in System Preferences > Software Update.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Does anybody know if OS X updates will still be available for download 
in .dmg format from support.apple.com/downloads?

My home internet connection is cellular broadband (no cable or DSL in 
these boondocks) with a 5 GB monthly cap.  My home computer is a 27" 
iMac which is not convenient to carry to places with free wifi.

I usually download software updates at work, and take them home on a 
thumb drive.  Is Apple going to make it more difficult for me to do that?

I really don't like the way Apple is moving in a direction that assumes 
all their users have access to a fast unlimited network.  I applaud 
their efforts to simplify the process for users who do have such access, 
but it would be nice to provide an alternative for the rest of us that 
the phone/cable companies don't consider profitable.

In article 
<net-news69-01BF93.10164410082012@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> wrote:

> Does anybody know if OS X updates will still be available for download 
> in .dmg format from support.apple.com/downloads?
> 
> My home internet connection is cellular broadband (no cable or DSL in 
> these boondocks) with a 5 GB monthly cap.  My home computer is a 27" 
> iMac which is not convenient to carry to places with free wifi.
> 
> I usually download software updates at work, and take them home on a 
> thumb drive.  Is Apple going to make it more difficult for me to do that?
> 
> I really don't like the way Apple is moving in a direction that assumes 
> all their users have access to a fast unlimited network.  I applaud 
> their efforts to simplify the process for users who do have such access, 
> but it would be nice to provide an alternative for the rest of us that 
> the phone/cable companies don't consider profitable.

Only Apple knows that.  But you're clearly an 'outlier' from their 
Internet-based update strategy.  If they decide that customers who don't 
have unlimited Broadband and non-portable machines aren't worth 
supporting, you could possibly go to your nearest Apple Store Genius Bar 
and ask for an update there.

I had the same problem with an App Store application (SoundConverter) 
which I couldn't get working on my MacPro.  The developer wanted me to 
'bring it up to SF' so he could 'take a look at it'.  Obviously 
instrumenting it to do debug logging wasn't something he was willing to 
do.  So he gave me a refund on the app.

If Apple is assuming that everyone who buys their systems will update 
them from their unlimited Broadband connection, most of the rest of the 
world won't be using the new release of Mac OS.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> wrote:

> Does anybody know if OS X updates will still be available for download
> in .dmg format from support.apple.com/downloads?

Since the introduction of Mountain Lion, there have been updates to
iPhoto, iMovie, the iWork suite, Aperture, Apple Remote Desktop and
several printer drivers. All of these have been available via
support.apple.com/downloads.

There is already one major update for Lion that is not available there:
Safari 6. The only way I could get that was via Software Update (a 40 MB
download). Safari 6 came with Mountain Lion so no manual download was
necessary in that case.

I think the Safari downloads are only part way through being
restructured, because at the same time as releasing Safari 6, Apple
pulled the www.apple.com/safari/download page and along with it Safari
5.1.x for Snow Leopard, Lion and Windows. They subsequently put up a
separate download page for Safari 5.1.7 for Windows, but it looks like
it has disappeared from the list of downloads again. Still no sign of
Safari 5.1.7 for Snow Leopard (which was previously available).

I've also found that they pulled Safari 5.1.7 from the Software Update
servers, so someone installing Snow Leopard or updating to 10.6.8 now is
stuck with Safari 5.0.5 (which came in the 10.6.8 update), unless they
happen to have kept a copy of the manually downloaded installer for
5.1.7.

I suspect the Safari situation is an aberration that will be resolved at
some point, and I expect that support.apple.com/downloads will offer
manual downloads of security updates and minor version updates for
Mountain Lion.
 
> My home internet connection is cellular broadband (no cable or DSL in
> these boondocks) with a 5 GB monthly cap.  My home computer is a 27" 
> iMac which is not convenient to carry to places with free wifi.
> 
> I usually download software updates at work, and take them home on a 
> thumb drive.  Is Apple going to make it more difficult for me to do that?
> 
> I really don't like the way Apple is moving in a direction that assumes
> all their users have access to a fast unlimited network.  I applaud 
> their efforts to simplify the process for users who do have such access,
> but it would be nice to provide an alternative for the rest of us that
> the phone/cable companies don't consider profitable.

This problem affects many people in New Zealand, because most broadband
connections here are capped. The caps for medium priced plans tend to be
increasing (40 GB per month is now reasonably common) but low end plans
are still in the order of 5 GB per month. If someone has to update
several Macs, using software update for all of them could result in
running into your monthly limit and having to pay a lot or suffer from a
speed limit which drops your broadband back to roughly dial-up speeds
for the rest of the month. Some ISPs also offer a daily cap arrangement,
with the cap typically being smaller than a minor version update of Mac
OS X.

I like to get and keep the manual downloads because I want to install
them on several computers, and to have the ability to reinstall them
without having to download them again (saving time for the download, and
potentially money if I've reached my cap).

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

David Empson wrote:
"I've also found that they pulled Safari 5.1.7 from the 
Software Update servers, so someone installing Snow Leopard 
or updating to 10.6.8 now is stuck with Safari 5.0.5 (which 
came in the 10.6.8 update), unless they happen to have kept 
a copy of the manually downloaded installer for 5.1.7."

How about here:
http://support.apple.com/downloads/#internet

On 08-10-2012 14:07, Michael Vilain wrote:
> If Apple is assuming that everyone who buys their systems will update
> them from their unlimited Broadband connection, most of the rest of the
> world won't be using the new release of Mac OS.

On the other hand, if dumbing down gets them a million more customers,
they won't care if it sends you and me to Linux.

-- 
Wes Groleau

    “Thinking I'm dumb gives people something to
     feel smug about.  Why should I disillusion them?”
                             — Charles Wallace
                             (in _A_Wrinkle_In_Time_)

John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> wrote:

> David Empson wrote:
> "I've also found that they pulled Safari 5.1.7 from the 
> Software Update servers, so someone installing Snow Leopard 
> or updating to 10.6.8 now is stuck with Safari 5.0.5 (which 
> came in the 10.6.8 update), unless they happen to have kept 
> a copy of the manually downloaded installer for 5.1.7."
> 
> How about here:
> http://support.apple.com/downloads/#internet

Ah, thanks. Safari 5.1.7 for Windows was briefly visible in the full
list of downloads as a recent release (about the same date as Mountain
Lion) and I couldn't see it there any more. I now see they just adjusted
its date back to when it was originally released. Safari 5.1.7 for Snow
Leopard may have reappeared at the same time.

Safari 5.1.7 for Snow Leopard was not coming up in Software Update when
I did a Snow Leopard upgrade for someone on 4th August, so I installed
it manually from my previously downloaded copy of the installer. I'd
have to do another install to see whether that issue has also been
fixed.

That still doesn't resolve the question of why there is no manual
installer of Safari 6.0 for Lion.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 08-10-2012 14:07, Michael Vilain wrote:
> > If Apple is assuming that everyone who buys their systems will update
> > them from their unlimited Broadband connection, most of the rest of the
> > world won't be using the new release of Mac OS.
> 
> On the other hand, if dumbing down gets them a million more customers,
> they won't care if it sends you and me to Linux.

I just bought a new MacBook with Lion, going from Snow Leopard, and I am
not a happy camper, and dislike most of the "improved" applications
associated applications.  Intend to move several back from my old
MacBook this weekend including in particular address book.  No way am I
going to get sucked into this "cloud" computing.  Will pass on my free
ML "upgrade."  Would move back to SL if this computer would run it.
Lost quite a few of my facorite apps that were writtten for PPC.

In article <1konriw.fb8r4f1kerp26N%paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink>,
 paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink wrote:

> Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> 
> > On 08-10-2012 14:07, Michael Vilain wrote:
> > > If Apple is assuming that everyone who buys their systems will update
> > > them from their unlimited Broadband connection, most of the rest of the
> > > world won't be using the new release of Mac OS.
> > 
> > On the other hand, if dumbing down gets them a million more customers,
> > they won't care if it sends you and me to Linux.
> 
> I just bought a new MacBook with Lion, going from Snow Leopard, and I am
> not a happy camper, and dislike most of the "improved" applications
> associated applications.  Intend to move several back from my old
> MacBook this weekend including in particular address book.  No way am I
> going to get sucked into this "cloud" computing.  Will pass on my free
> ML "upgrade."  Would move back to SL if this computer would run it.
> Lost quite a few of my facorite apps that were writtten for PPC.

You might looking into loading Ubuntu on your system.  You'll probably 
be happier with that.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

In article <vilain-90981B.13114211082012@news.individual.net>,
 Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> You might looking into loading Ubuntu on your system.  You'll probably 
> be happier with that.

I haven't tried Ubuntu, but Kubuntu is mostly good. The cross-platform
programs like firefox and calibre are mostly the same but updates 
come later by a few days or the the next Kubuntu upgrade.

The Kubutu file viewer changes file dates everytime a file is viewed
and I don't see a way to associate comments to a file like Mac 
OS X can. Is there a date preserving file viewer?

In article <vilain-AD3E13.11071210082012@news.individual.net>,
 Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> Only Apple knows that.  But you're clearly an 'outlier' from their 
> Internet-based update strategy.  If they decide that customers who don't 
> have unlimited Broadband and non-portable machines aren't worth 
> supporting, you could possibly go to your nearest Apple Store Genius Bar 
> and ask for an update there.

But will they be able to give me an update in a format I can carry home 
in my pocket, or do I have to carry my iMac into the store?

In article 
<net-news69-C1AB80.11570413082012@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> wrote:

> In article <vilain-AD3E13.11071210082012@news.individual.net>,
>  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> 
> > Only Apple knows that.  But you're clearly an 'outlier' from their 
> > Internet-based update strategy.  If they decide that customers who don't 
> > have unlimited Broadband and non-portable machines aren't worth 
> > supporting, you could possibly go to your nearest Apple Store Genius Bar 
> > and ask for an update there.
> 
> But will they be able to give me an update in a format I can carry home 
> in my pocket, or do I have to carry my iMac into the store?

Call them and ask.  My guess, bring in your system.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

On 2012-08-13 11:57:04 -0400, Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> said:

> In article <vilain-AD3E13.11071210082012@news.individual.net>,
>  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> 
>> Only Apple knows that.  But you're clearly an 'outlier' from their
>> Internet-based update strategy.  If they decide that customers who don't
>> have unlimited Broadband and non-portable machines aren't worth
>> supporting, you could possibly go to your nearest Apple Store Genius Bar
>> and ask for an update there.
> 
> But will they be able to give me an update in a format I can carry home
> in my pocket, or do I have to carry my iMac into the store?

call em and ask em..........
-- 
S&W...An original point and click device...

In article <2012081405125116807-raven@thenestgov>,
 raven <raven@thenest.gov> wrote:

> On 2012-08-13 11:57:04 -0400, Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> said:
> 
> > In article <vilain-AD3E13.11071210082012@news.individual.net>,
> >  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> > 
> >> Only Apple knows that.  But you're clearly an 'outlier' from their
> >> Internet-based update strategy.  If they decide that customers who don't
> >> have unlimited Broadband and non-portable machines aren't worth
> >> supporting, you could possibly go to your nearest Apple Store Genius Bar
> >> and ask for an update there.
> > 
> > But will they be able to give me an update in a format I can carry home
> > in my pocket, or do I have to carry my iMac into the store?
> 
> call em and ask em..........

I would guess that the easiest thing to do would be to bring in a USB 
thumb drive, and see if they can load it on that.