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When is a Mac not a Mac?

This was posted in a forum recently and I thought it brought up some 
very interesting points relating to the Eula. For reference:
http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=105546
------
This question is related to licensing OS X on a machine. The EULA says 
it has to be an Apple computer, before the Apple License will apply, 
which means Apple will only support OS X on Apple machines. So, I'm 
wondering, when is a machine considered an Apple Mac, for the purposes 
of Licensing and recieving support? Say I buy a Mac from Apple. Then the 
hard drive fails, and I replace that with an aftermarket drive from 
newegg. Is it still a Mac? Say then, I upgrade the RAM with after market 
memory. Still a Mac? Say the computer falls to the floor and the case 
cracks. So, I buy a cheap aftermarket PC case and put the Mac parts 
inside. Still a Mac? Maybe the motherboard is the critical component 
that says it's a Mac. So, what if some components on the MB fail, and I 
replace them with aftermarket parts. Still a Mac? At what point does my 
original Mac fail the test of Mac-ness, for the purposes of being able 
to put OS X on it and getting support from Apple?
0
noemailhere (606)
5/18/2008 3:54:39 PM
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In article <noemailhere-315289.10543918052008@news.mts.net>,
 The NewGuy <noemailhere@please.comm> wrote:

> This was posted in a forum recently and I thought it brought up some 
> very interesting points relating to the Eula. For reference:
> http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=105546
> ------
> This question is related to licensing OS X on a machine. The EULA says 
> it has to be an Apple computer, before the Apple License will apply, 
> which means Apple will only support OS X on Apple machines. So, I'm 
> wondering, when is a machine considered an Apple Mac, for the purposes 
> of Licensing and recieving support? Say I buy a Mac from Apple. Then the 
> hard drive fails, and I replace that with an aftermarket drive from 
> newegg. Is it still a Mac? Say then, I upgrade the RAM with after market 
> memory. Still a Mac? Say the computer falls to the floor and the case 
> cracks. So, I buy a cheap aftermarket PC case and put the Mac parts 
> inside. Still a Mac? Maybe the motherboard is the critical component 
> that says it's a Mac. So, what if some components on the MB fail, and I 
> replace them with aftermarket parts. Still a Mac? At what point does my 
> original Mac fail the test of Mac-ness, for the purposes of being able 
> to put OS X on it and getting support from Apple?

As long as you don't void the warranty, and as long as it's still within 
the warranty period, Apple should support it.

I think it's a very safe bet replacing the case or parts of the 
motherboard would void the warranty.

-- 
Please send all responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to
this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. I do not
read posts from Google Groups. Use a real news reader if you want me to
see your posts.

JR
0
jollyroger (11010)
5/18/2008 3:59:51 PM
In article <noemailhere-315289.10543918052008@news.mts.net>,
 The NewGuy <noemailhere@please.comm> wrote:

> At what point does my original Mac fail the test of Mac-ness, for the 
> purposes of being able to put OS X on it and getting support from 
> Apple?

My guess is that they'll go by the serial number.  Choose "About this 
Mac" from the Apple menu.  The second line of the dialog should show the 
version number.  Click on it twice, and it should show the serial number 
of the computer.  If there is no serial number, or the serial number is 
not in Apple's database, then the computer is not covered.

Also, third party replacements, such as your hypothetical disk drive and 
RAM, are not covered unless you bought them from Apple and they were 
installed according to Apple's policies.

-- 
Support the troops:  Bring them home ASAP.
0
michelle14 (19004)
5/18/2008 4:05:58 PM
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <noemailhere-315289.10543918052008@news.mts.net>,
>  The NewGuy <noemailhere@please.comm> wrote:

> > This question is related to licensing OS X on a machine. The EULA says
> > it has to be an Apple computer, before the Apple License will apply,
> > which means Apple will only support OS X on Apple machines.
> 
> As long as you don't void the warranty, and as long as it's still within
> the warranty period, Apple should support it.
> 
> I think it's a very safe bet replacing the case or parts of the 
> motherboard would void the warranty.

And note that the OP seems to be confusing two different, albeit related
matters. If one is trying to ask about such fine points of distinction
as exavctly what parts can be replaced, then one must make equally fine
distinctions in the question.

In particular, the EULA is *NOT* what specifies the conditions of
support. The EULA is a license agreement (thus the "license agreement"
that the last 2 letters standard for). It is not a support agreement or
warrantee. Yes, the difference can be important. It is quite plausuble,
and probably even common, for a vendor to say that you are allowed to do
things that the vendor doesn't support.

I'd find it a bit surprising if Apple would support something that
violates their EULA, but quite normal that there are things that are
allowed by the EULA, but are not supported. In any case, the EULA and
the support agreement are two different things. That's really a much
more fundamental distinction than some of the fine points the OP is
asking about.

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgement comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgement.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain
0
nospam47 (9747)
5/18/2008 4:30:11 PM
On 2008-05-18 11:54:39 -0400, The NewGuy <noemailhere@please.comm> said:

> This was posted in a forum recently and I thought it brought up some
> very interesting points relating to the Eula. For reference:
> http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=105546
> ------
> This question is related to licensing OS X on a machine. The EULA says
> it has to be an Apple computer, before the Apple License will apply,
> which means Apple will only support OS X on Apple machines. So, I'm
> wondering, when is a machine considered an Apple Mac, for the purposes
> of Licensing and recieving support? Say I buy a Mac from Apple. Then the
> hard drive fails, and I replace that with an aftermarket drive from
> newegg. Is it still a Mac? Say then, I upgrade the RAM with after market
> memory. Still a Mac? Say the computer falls to the floor and the case
> cracks. So, I buy a cheap aftermarket PC case and put the Mac parts
> inside. Still a Mac? Maybe the motherboard is the critical component
> that says it's a Mac. So, what if some components on the MB fail, and I
> replace them with aftermarket parts. Still a Mac? At what point does my
> original Mac fail the test of Mac-ness, for the purposes of being able
> to put OS X on it and getting support from Apple?

The MB and its firmware would be the determining factor for 
installation (and presumably licensing).  The board itself is only 
available from Apple, though most of its components are available 
elsewhere.  You could make a custom board and buy the components, but 
copying the firmware would have license problem.  Technically, you 
could throw away all of a Mac except the chip containing the firmware 
and serial number, and build the rest.  It should be legal, but don't 
expect any harware warrantee help from Apple.

0
Malcolm
5/18/2008 9:50:54 PM
On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:05:58 -0400, Michelle Steiner wrote
(in article <michelle-CE12AF.09055818052008@news.west.cox.net>):

> Also, third party replacements, such as your hypothetical disk drive and RAM, 

> are not covered unless you bought them from Apple and they were installed 
> according to Apple's policies.

Or bought from an Apple-authorized shop.  The Apple Store sent my 
daughter-in-law to some non-Apple shop in Maryland to get a larger disk drive 
put in her Macbook.  Then when they screwed up migrating her old system 
(iPhoto wouldn't run) the Genius Bar helped her.  Apparently our Apple Store 
does repairs but not upgrades.

-- 
John Varela
Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email.

0
OLDlamps (343)
5/19/2008 6:33:48 PM
In article <noemailhere-315289.10543918052008@news.mts.net>,
The NewGuy  <noemailhere@please.comm> wrote:
>This was posted in a forum recently and I thought it brought up some 
>very interesting points relating to the Eula. For reference:
>http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=105546
>------
>This question is related to licensing OS X on a machine. The EULA says 
>it has to be an Apple computer, before the Apple License will apply, 
>which means Apple will only support OS X on Apple machines. So, I'm 
>wondering, when is a machine considered an Apple Mac, for the purposes 
>of Licensing and recieving support? 

The EULA is pretty clear on the subject.  One "Apple-labeled computer".  So
as long as there's an Apple label on there somewhere, you're good.

(Though somehow I don't think Apple's lawyers are going to buy that)
-- 
  There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
  result in a fully-depreciated one.
0
russotto (1801)
5/19/2008 8:57:47 PM
On 18/05/2008, Jolly Roger wrote in message <jollyroger-
F8E69A.10595118052008@individual.net>:
 
> As long as you don't void the warranty, and as long as it's still within 
> the warranty period, Apple should support it.
> 
> I think it's a very safe bet replacing the case or parts of the 
> motherboard would void the warranty.

You have to open the case to put the new part in.  /Opening the case/
voids the warranty, according to Apple and most manufacturers. 
Technically, this is nonsense: all original parts, and opened by a trained
maintainer cannot void a warranty.  However, I have never seen this tested
in court.

However, does this make a Macintosh a non-Macintosh ?  No.  But replacing
any part would.

Simon.
-- 
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk
0
5/20/2008 8:21:37 PM
Simon Slavin <slavins.delete.these.four.words@hearsay.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

> /Opening the case/
> voids the warranty, according to Apple

That is simply not true. It isn't worth the bother for me to look up the
citations, but Apple has quite clearly and explicitly stated exactly the
opposite. Opening the case does not void your warrantee.

If you damage something in the process of opening the case, then that
damage is not covered by warrantee, which makes sense. But opening the
case does not in itself do it.

I'm aware that there do exist products for which that is the case. But
it isn't so for Apple Macs.

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgement comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgement.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain
0
nospam47 (9747)
5/20/2008 10:33:19 PM
In article <g0vh7e$j1l$2$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,
 Simon Slavin <slavins.delete.these.four.words@hearsay.demon.co.uk> 
 wrote:

> On 18/05/2008, Jolly Roger wrote in message <jollyroger-
> F8E69A.10595118052008@individual.net>:
>  
> > As long as you don't void the warranty, and as long as it's still within 
> > the warranty period, Apple should support it.
> > 
> > I think it's a very safe bet replacing the case or parts of the 
> > motherboard would void the warranty.
> 
> You have to open the case to put the new part in.  /Opening the case/
> voids the warranty, according to Apple and most manufacturers.

I don't know where you got that, but I'd love a citation, if you can 
find one.

-- 
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you 
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to 
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.

JR
0
jollyroger (11010)
5/20/2008 10:46:47 PM
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <g0vh7e$j1l$2$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,
>  Simon Slavin <slavins.delete.these.four.words@hearsay.demon.co.uk> 
>  wrote:
> 
> > On 18/05/2008, Jolly Roger wrote in message <jollyroger-
> > F8E69A.10595118052008@individual.net>:
> >  
> > > As long as you don't void the warranty, and as long as it's still within
> > > the warranty period, Apple should support it.
> > > 
> > > I think it's a very safe bet replacing the case or parts of the 
> > > motherboard would void the warranty.
> > 
> > You have to open the case to put the new part in.  /Opening the case/
> > voids the warranty, according to Apple and most manufacturers.
> 
> I don't know where you got that, but I'd love a citation, if you can 
> find one.

Well, as long as people are asking for citations, I went digging a
little and found the citation of the opposite that I mentioned in my
other post, but was too lazy to find then.

At <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=13946> find an
Apple-authored document titled " Apple Warranty: Installing Memory,
Expansion Cards, User Installable Parts Does Not Void Warranty". In
particular, it says

"Adding memory (DRAM, VRAM) or other user-installable upgrade or
expansion products to an Apple computer is not considered a modification
to that Apple product. Therefore, it is not necessary to obtain Apple's
written permission to upgrade or expand an Apple computer. While Apple
strongly recommends that you retain the services of an Apple Authorized
Service Provider to perform any product upgrades or expansions, you will
not void your Apple warranty if you choose to upgrade or expand your
computer yourself. However, if in the course of adding an upgrade or
expansion product to your computer, you damage your Apple computer
(either through the installation of, or incompatibility of the upgrade
or expansion product), Apple's warranty will not cover the cost of
repair, or future related repairs."

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgement comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgement.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain
0
nospam47 (9747)
5/20/2008 11:53:52 PM
The NewGuy wrote:
> This question is related to licensing OS X on a machine. The EULA says 
> it has to be an Apple computer, before the Apple License will apply, 
> which means Apple will only support OS X on Apple machines. So, I'm 

So, all the answers about the hardware warranty are useful and 
interesting, but irrelevant to the question.  Not that I think
the question is relevant to anything in the real world.... :-)

-- 
Wes Groleau
   ----
   The man who reads nothing at all is better educated
   than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
                             -- Thomas Jefferson
0
news31 (6772)
5/21/2008 2:44:10 AM
In message <noemailhere-315289.10543918052008@news.mts.net> 
  The <noemailhere@please.comm> wrote:
> This was posted in a forum recently and I thought it brought up some 
> very interesting points relating to the Eula. For reference:
> http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=105546
> ------
> This question is related to licensing OS X on a machine. The EULA says 
> it has to be an Apple computer, before the Apple License will apply, 
> which means Apple will only support OS X on Apple machines. So, I'm 
> wondering, when is a machine considered an Apple Mac, for the purposes 
> of Licensing and recieving support? Say I buy a Mac from Apple. Then the 
> hard drive fails, and I replace that with an aftermarket drive from 
> newegg. Is it still a Mac? Say then, I upgrade the RAM with after market 
> memory. Still a Mac? Say the computer falls to the floor and the case 
> cracks. So, I buy a cheap aftermarket PC case and put the Mac parts 
> inside. Still a Mac? Maybe the motherboard is the critical component 
> that says it's a Mac. So, what if some components on the MB fail, and I 
> replace them with aftermarket parts. Still a Mac? At what point does my 
> original Mac fail the test of Mac-ness, for the purposes of being able 
> to put OS X on it and getting support from Apple?

Doesn't the EULA specify what an "Apple Machine" is?


-- 
There's a race of men that don't fit in, A race that can't stay
	still So they break the hearts of kith and kin, And they roam
	the world at will.
0
g.kreme (3671)
5/21/2008 9:07:27 PM
Reply: