The petition to get an official Sinclair ZX Spectrum is at:
  http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Spectrum/
while an example specification is at:
  http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/petition.htm

-- 
                       Tarquin Mills

ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society)
http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:32:46 GMT, Tarquin Mills <accus@nojunkmail.com> wrote:

>The petition to get an official Sinclair ZX Spectrum is at:
>  http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Spectrum/
>while an example specification is at:
>  http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/petition.htm

Hrm, I'm in doubting-Thomas mode again.

"In 2003 a petition was started to bring Your Sinclair back, now YS is back,
and hopefully here to stay."

But it isn't and it won't be. A one-off special is out now, but it's not
really YS, and it's not a regular mag (although it is very good). And I really
don't agree with you claiming that your petition was successful in "bringing
YS back" as I haven't yet seen any evidence that it had any impact on either
Live or Future in their decision to go ahead with the YS special.

As for the +4 petition - beyond the eMailer and a TV joystick thingy, nothing
more complex is realistic due to the cost involved in R&D. The best way to go
about this is to find someone to take on the design and production work and
then licence the Spectrum copyrights from Amstrad. Live Publishing did after
all licence the YS name off of Future. 

In fact I'm convinced that instead Amstrad should be petitioned to offer
one-off Spectrum licences for sale to cloners around the world so that all
Amstrad would have to do is count the money rather than any real effort,
perhaps having a clause for extra fees should demand for a certain clone be
high enough. And I think this would be the case already if someone presented
them with a serious business proposition.

In practical terms I think you're going to have to get someone to design and
build the prototype in their spare time using their own funds, and even
manufacturing might need to be done either on the cheap or for free, otherwise
the RRP of the machine will run to hundreds of pounds quite easily. Amstrad
certainly won't take on that loss.

Sorry to put a dampener on things, but I don't think you're being realistic.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Nick Humphries                                    nick@egyptus.co.uk |
| The Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years:        http://www.ysrnry.co.uk/ |
| The YSRnRY TV Show: (1984 SOON)      http://www.ysrnry.co.uk/tvprog/ |
| The Tipshop:                           http://www.the-tipshop.co.uk/ |
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Nick Humphries" <nick@egyptusWIBBLE.co.uk> wrote

> In fact I'm convinced that instead Amstrad should be petitioned to offer
> one-off Spectrum licences for sale to cloners around the world so that all
> Amstrad would have to do is count the money rather than any real effort,
> perhaps having a clause for extra fees should demand for a certain clone 
> be
> high enough.

These are my thoughts exactly.

Colin


-- 

ZXF: Spectrum computing today

Download the PDF magazine for free at www.cwoodcock.co.uk/zxf


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.794 / Virus Database: 538 - Release Date: 10/11/2004 

Nick Humphries wrote:
> As for the +4 petition - beyond the eMailer and a TV joystick thingy, nothing
> more complex is realistic due to the cost involved in R&D.

The C64DTV (C64 in a joystick) about to be released in the U.S. and Europe 
when the PAL version is ready is essentially a C64 on an ASIC and, with a 
bit of soldering on the pads they've apparently left in the design, it's 
possible to add a PC keyboard and a stock 6 pin serial to connect a 1541 
disk drive up.  Since the C64 is harder to clone due to the custom chips, 
doing the same sort of work for the Speccy should be reasonably viable 
commercially, shouldn't it...?

> Sorry to put a dampener on things, but I don't think you're being realistic.

There's already been a +4 - it's a Commodore. [evil grin =-]
-- 
     ______________________________  _________________________________
    /                             /\/  ___/     /  ___/  /     /  ___/\
   / Website:  www.cosine.org.uk / /  /\_/  /  /__   /  /  /  /  __/\\/
  / ICQ: 44373717 IRC: TMR{C0S} / /  /__/  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /\
/_____________________________/ /_____/_____/_____/__/__/__/_____/ /
\_____________________________\/\_____\_____\_____\__\__\__\_____\/TMR

Colin Woodcock wrote:
> "Nick Humphries" <nick@egyptusWIBBLE.co.uk> wrote
> 
> 
>>In fact I'm convinced that instead Amstrad should be petitioned to offer
>>one-off Spectrum licences for sale to cloners around the world so that all
>>Amstrad would have to do is count the money rather than any real effort,
>>perhaps having a clause for extra fees should demand for a certain clone 
>>be
>>high enough.
> 
> 
> These are my thoughts exactly.
> 
> Colin

Yeah, I can't see it happening - what possible reason would Amstrad have 
for producing it and who would buy such a machine?

Doesn't really have any general appeal in a saturated market.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:24:33 -0000, "Colin Woodcock"
<colin@woodcock88.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>"Nick Humphries" <nick@egyptusWIBBLE.co.uk> wrote
>
>> In fact I'm convinced that instead Amstrad should be petitioned to offer
>> one-off Spectrum licences for sale to cloners around the world so that all
>> Amstrad would have to do is count the money rather than any real effort,
>> perhaps having a clause for extra fees should demand for a certain clone 
>> be
>> high enough.
>
>These are my thoughts exactly.

What everyone else said. The petition just looks foolish to me, I'm
sorry to say.

Matthew

In message <cn0ap4$v3p$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> "Colin Woodcock" wrote:
> "Nick Humphries" wrote
> > In fact I'm convinced that instead Amstrad should be petitioned to offer
> > one-off Spectrum licences for sale to cloners around the world so 
> > that all Amstrad would have to do is count the money rather than 
> > any real effort, perhaps having a clause for extra fees should 
> > demand for a certain clone be high enough.
> 
> These are my thoughts exactly.

The petition says "we encourage amateur attempts that may be later
endorsed.", the above is covered by it.

-- 
                       Tarquin Mills

ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society)
http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/

Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Thu, 11 Nov
2004 17:32:46 GMT, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do comp.sys.sinclair,
yawatina tan reek esk Tarquin Mills <accus@nojunkmail.com> fornis do marikano
es bono tan el:

>The petition to get an official Sinclair ZX Spectrum is at:
>  http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Spectrum/
>while an example specification is at:
>  http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/petition.htm

Who won the ORSAM prize draw?

deKay
-- 
 + Lofi Gaming - www.lofi-gaming.org.uk  AC: deKay in Sponge
 |- ugvm Magazine - www.ugvm.org.uk      Gamertag: deKay 01
 |- My computer runs at 3.5MHz and I'm proud of that
 |- Currently buying games at a rate of one every 14.33 hours

> > Sorry to put a dampener on things, but I don't think you're being realistic.
> 
> There's already been a +4 - it's a Commodore. [evil grin =-]

And my own Spectrum +4 ROM (which was about as good).

And I'd be interested in licensing the ROM for a ZX Spectrum SE build
project - the hardware design is done, but I don't think the market
would pay the price.

Not sure if my other post got through - down side of internet cafes.

1) ZX Spectrum +4 has been done (a ROM by me, but it's not very good
so I wouldn't bother with it.

2) Portable colour Speccy games console:

See GBA, GP32 and mobile phone based emulators - much cheaper than a
new hardware build.

3) A new Spectrum.

This has been suggested over and over again during the life of this
group. To my knowledge the only genuine mass market new Spectrums have
come from the former Soviet Bloc, and a few home brew projects
including - my own ZX Spectrum SE, Garry Lancaster's Spectrum +3e,
Mike Wynn's SpeccyBOB and Chrome (sorry can't remember the author's
name). Of these the ZX Spectrum SE and +3e are emulated.

4) No one will pay for it.

Sorry to put the kybosh on it but aside from a few enthusiasts, no one
is going to fork out for a new machine. The gamers can use emulators
on full PCs or portable stuff (see point 2). Programmers are more
likely to use an emulator and/or BASin. The Russian Sprinter was a
great Z80 based machine with Spectrum compatibility. It has just gone
out of production because of a lack of interest - and it was
relatively cheap to buy. If you really want a new machine I'd suggest
trying to get one of the short run ATM Turbo 2s currently in
production (no idea where from though).

5) Suggested specification

A Nintendo DS based emulator with a keyboard in the touch screen area
or a GP32 with a keyboard will be the cheapest portable Speccy option.
You can't make short-run portables without vast costs.

3.5" HD floppy drive - pointless

16.5MB RAM - what for when mass storage is fast enough and the address
space is 64K.

CF to be used as a hard disc - been done it's called ZXCF and it's
been emulated.

Emulators - already exist. And I'm looking at a Z88 emu for the ZX SE.
Keyboard to include keywords in colour - out of date - use a tokenizer
as in SE Basic.
 
Mouse port - which type. I agree Kempston Mouse is probably worth
having.

Midi in, out and through standard connectors. - Why would you use a
Speccy as a sequencer in this day and age.

Parallel port, standard connector - easy to make yourself apparently
2 serial ports (9 pin D), fast, at least 115Kps - done (Jessa I/O)

USB - been done, but not sure it's worth it on a Speccy.

Sinclair net - a good idea. I'm looking into adding it to the ZX SE
specification.

Ethernet - been done but Sinclair net makes more sense to me.

Case colour=black - I hate PC towers - the ZX SE will eventually be a
black rack mount.

In message <03p7p0hoqpguq4n1nauuhkingq0u4l8vj5@4ax.com>
          deKay wrote:
> Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Thu, 11 
> Nov 2004 17:32:46 GMT, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do 
> comp.sys.sinclair, yawatina tan reek esk Tarquin Mills 
> <accus@nojunkmail.com> fornis do marikano es bono tan el:
> 
> >The petition to get an official Sinclair ZX Spectrum is at:
> >  http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Spectrum/
> >while an example specification is at:
> >  http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/petition.htm
> 
> Who won the ORSAM prize draw?

The prize was spilt into two, and both winners were locals.
More about one of the prize winners is quoted from the QL mailing 
list, Tony I hope you do not mind me quoting you.

Tony Firshman wrote:
> Tarquin Mills wrote:
> >   I have a story that is at the level of the cup holder joke, and a man
> > walking into Dixons asking for Workbench for the Amiga, except having
> > seen it with my own eyes I know it is true. A man went to the TF
> > Services stand and asked if they fixed Spectrums, Tony agreed to have a
> > look. The man said he had last been using it in 1986 and had not been
> > able to use it since (18 years) because it was broken. He had being
> > using it on a monitor but when he got back from working in Saudi Arabia,
> > the monitor was gone. On the television left in it's place no picture
> > could be had. It turns out he did not know you had to tune in the 
> > television to the right channel.
>
> The story I got from him was that he was using it on a 405 television!
> His wife made him buy a 625 TV.
> Your version sounds more likely.  I tuned it in on my emergency TV - a
> Nintendo Gameboy with a TV adapter.  It had -exactly- the same frequency
> as the QL (channel 36 I believe).
>
> > He won 12 speccy games in the prize draw.
>
> I wonder whether he will ever load them.
> Next episode in 18 years time (8-)#
-- 
                       Tarquin Mills

ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society)
http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/

In message <c371076d.0411112023.79bcd56c@posting.google.com>
         Andrew Owen wrote:
> Not sure if my other post got through - down side of internet cafes.
> 
> 1) ZX Spectrum +4 has been done (a ROM by me, but it's not very good
> so I wouldn't bother with it.
> 
> 2) Portable colour Speccy games console:
> 
> See GBA, GP32 and mobile phone based emulators - much cheaper than a
> new hardware build.
> 
> 3) A new Spectrum.
> 
> This has been suggested over and over again during the life of this
> group. To my knowledge the only genuine mass market new Spectrums have
> come from the former Soviet Bloc, and a few home brew projects
> including - my own ZX Spectrum SE, Garry Lancaster's Spectrum +3e,
> Mike Wynn's SpeccyBOB and Chrome (sorry can't remember the author's
> name). Of these the ZX Spectrum SE and +3e are emulated.
> 
> 4) No one will pay for it.
> 
> Sorry to put the kybosh on it but aside from a few enthusiasts, no one
> is going to fork out for a new machine. The gamers can use emulators
> on full PCs or portable stuff (see point 2). Programmers are more
> likely to use an emulator and/or BASin. The Russian Sprinter was a
> great Z80 based machine with Spectrum compatibility. It has just gone
> out of production because of a lack of interest - and it was
> relatively cheap to buy. If you really want a new machine I'd suggest
> trying to get one of the short run ATM Turbo 2s currently in
> production (no idea where from though).
> 
> 5) Suggested specification
> 
> A Nintendo DS based emulator with a keyboard in the touch screen area
> or a GP32 with a keyboard will be the cheapest portable Speccy option.
> You can't make short-run portables without vast costs.
> 
> 3.5" HD floppy drive - pointless
> 
> 16.5MB RAM - what for when mass storage is fast enough and the address
> space is 64K.
> 
> CF to be used as a hard disc - been done it's called ZXCF and it's
> been emulated.
> 
> Emulators - already exist. And I'm looking at a Z88 emu for the ZX SE.
> Keyboard to include keywords in colour - out of date - use a tokenizer
> as in SE Basic.
>  
> Mouse port - which type. I agree Kempston Mouse is probably worth
> having.
> 
> Midi in, out and through standard connectors. - Why would you use a
> Speccy as a sequencer in this day and age.
> 
> Parallel port, standard connector - easy to make yourself apparently
> 2 serial ports (9 pin D), fast, at least 115Kps - done (Jessa I/O)
> 
> USB - been done, but not sure it's worth it on a Speccy.
> 
> Sinclair net - a good idea. I'm looking into adding it to the ZX SE
> specification.

Good :-), will it be fully QL compatible, unlike Interface 1.
 
> Ethernet - been done but Sinclair net makes more sense to me.
> 
> Case colour=black - I hate PC towers - the ZX SE will eventually be a
> black rack mount.

  What if you cannot build hardware, also all these addons have never been
in the same machine at the same time. As for the ex-Soviet clones they
are nearly impossible to get (in particular the Russian ones which are 
better, I would love a GMX), not one has been shown at ORSAM, even 
though people want to see them. I will be bringing a Didactik Kompakt 
to next years show, thanks to help from a German importer. As to 
PeterPlus, if they had a British importer it would have helped their 
sales in the UK. Considering the exchange rate, the Sprinter could 
have been cheaper, there must be demand or the ATM Turbo would not 
be manufactured. 
  Portable games consoles often have small screens, a laptop would be 
better. I prefer a real spectrum to an emulator, an official spectrum
will be more popular than a clone. It's about trying to move forward,
get the ideal, that can be bought easily. We all know a SAM accelerator 
would be good, I bet some CSS think this will not happen.

-- 
                       Tarquin Mills

ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society)
http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/

Tarquin, I really doubt that Amstrad will be making a new Spectrum.
Specially based on a petition which will just be answered by us
nutters.

We'll be lucky if they just release an enhanced version in a future
emailer.

And SAM is not compatible with Spectrum 128K paging - the paging
techniques are quite different - so how can you get a SAM & Speccy
128K based one combined? (Besides, 128K games are apparently
straight-forward to convert anyway)

(Besides, SAM isn't natively a Spectrum anyway - it's more of an
evolvement of the Spectra's)

SIAC (SAM-in-a-Can) Owner :)

Tarquin Mills <accus@nojunkmail.com> wrote in message news:<b6b0b90c4d.planet14@localhost.local>...
> In message <03p7p0hoqpguq4n1nauuhkingq0u4l8vj5@4ax.com>
>           deKay wrote:
> > Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Thu, 11 
> > Nov 2004 17:32:46 GMT, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do 
> > comp.sys.sinclair, yawatina tan reek esk Tarquin Mills 
> > <accus@nojunkmail.com> fornis do marikano es bono tan el:
> > 
> > >The petition to get an official Sinclair ZX Spectrum is at:
> > >  http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Spectrum/
> > >while an example specification is at:
> > >  http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/petition.htm
> > 

Have you seen C One already? Just look closer and you'll see CPC
emulation running on it:
http://www.siliconsonic.de/c-one/cpc/startscreen.jpg

Spec: 20Mhz 65c816 CPU /taken from SNES?/, SDRAM -> 1GB,  processor
slot for  real 6502, Z80, 6809 or even the Z8S180...

What are you waiting for? Just hack the code for this platform to run
some Speccy modes on it. Please.[1]

stanley

[1] It's more clever to not fragment hardware world dedicated to 8bit
emulation  scene I think.

Tarquin Mills <accus@nojunkmail.com> wrote in message news:<f831bd0c4d.planet14@localhost.local>...
 
> What if you cannot build hardware,

Pay someone else to do it, like Yarek Adamski (www.yarek.com)

> also all these addons have never been in the same machine at the same time.

Well as many are add-ons you could plug them all in to the same
machine.

> I will be bringing a Didactik Kompakt to next years show

That's really just a Speccy 128 clone with a disk drive bolted on. A
grey +2 with a homebrew +D is probably a better option.

> PeterPlus, if they had a British importer it would have helped their 
> sales in the UK.

They had a Spanish one, and the scene is pretty big there but it
wasn't enough.

> there must be demand or the ATM Turbo would not be manufactured.

True, but you can't match Russian pricing when you manufacture in the
UK.
 
> Portable games consoles often have small screens, a laptop would be 
> better.

A cheap second hand laptop would be cheaper than a new machine with a
double sized screen.

> I prefer a real spectrum to an emulator

Depends on what you want to do with it. GBA based emulator through the
GameCube GBA box would be interesting.

> an official spectrum will be more popular than a clone.

Not unless it's dirt cheap - and you'd be looking at a Speccy 128 in a
Joystick with a selection of games at best.

> It's about trying to move forward

Hardly anyone wants to. Speccy sceners are mostly purists, unlike C64
sceners.

Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des 12 Nov 2004
20:12:28 -0800, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do comp.sys.sinclair,
yawatina tan reek esk aoweninoz@yahoo.com.au (Andrew Owen) fornis do marikano
es bono tan el:

>Depends on what you want to do with it. GBA based emulator through the
>GameCube GBA box would be interesting.

I often play Run Baby Run this way :)


deKay
-- 
 + Lofi Gaming - www.lofi-gaming.org.uk  AC: deKay in Sponge
 |- ugvm Magazine - www.ugvm.org.uk      Gamertag: deKay 01
 |- My computer runs at 3.5MHz and I'm proud of that
 |- Currently buying games at a rate of one every 14.33 hours

I remember you first mentioning your idea of a Spectrum +4 in passing during
your talk at the ORSAM show last year (November 2003), and I have to wonder
why you always assosciate the Sam as a Spectrum. Having a 'new' ZX Spectrum
which just happens to be Sam compatible as mentioned in your petition is not
something I would want to see, nor would other major Sam figures I have
talked to since your original post appeared.

I don't think you quite understand the Sam's capabilities or the unique
scene that has formed around the blue footed machine, although the Sam can
emulate the Spectrum (more on that later...) it really is a completely
different platform and shouldn't be seen as just an upgraded Spectrum, just
as the Spectrum shouldn't be seen as an upgraded ZX80!

I also have to say I was rather stunned at your first question you asked me
when you saw the prototype of the 'Mayhem Accelerator' I had at the ORSAM
show last weekend, which I demonstrated speeding the Sam Coupe up to 12MHz
with uncontended memory. (The Mayhem Accelerator is still only at the half
built prototype stage - it will be faster when finished, i'll be printing
info in the show report in issue 11 of Sam Revival, followed on by my
development article in issue 12.)

Anyway, back to your question at the show: "Is it 128K Compatible?".... As I
said on the day the answer is NO! Adding 128K ZX Spectrum compatiblity in
hardware would be a definite backwards step for the Sam Coupe.

We all know the Sam's roots were planted deep in the Sinclair community,
with the first Sam prototype in early 1988 only had MODE 1 (Spectrum style
screen) and MODE 2 (8x1 attribute cells), 64 to 256K memory and possibly an
AY soundchip (See issue 50 of Crash for the first details of the Sam in
development) . But by the time the Sam was finally released in December 1989
its superior capabilities (including graphic MODEs 3 and 4, 512K memory, SAA
soundchip) really made the machine stand out on its own, and making it much
more interesting than the fact that one of its four graphics modes was
identical to the ZX Spectrum and it had a 48K Emulator bundled with it.
(Even other 8 bit machines could emulate the Spectrum such as the Einstein
and Memotech but they haven't been classed as super-spectrums!)

Yes, the Sam can emulate the 48K Spectrum (and for that matter the ZX81, the
6510 C64 CPU, pacman arcade machine.. to name a few other emulators!), and
128K software has been hacked to run on the Sam in graphics MODE 1 and with
a software AY to SAA audio translator which all removes the need for a
hardware based solution. I really think that MGT and SamCo pushed the
Spectrum Emulator side too much in publicity. It is still quite unfortunate
that after 15 years the Sam is still only seen as a 'super spectrum'... and
how the press have still never let go of this fact and even to this day the
phrase "Super Spectrum" lives on and has appeared in Retro Gamer a few times
to date.

I'll say it again, the Sam isn't a ZX Spectrum! And I would be correct to
say that the majority of Sam users will see emulating the speccy on the Sam
as just an added bonus really. The true capabilities of the Sam Coupe
running its own software and using the full capabilities of the machine
really show the Sam as a true platform itself and the sooner it can lose the
'super spectrum' stigma the better.

Colin
=====
Quazar : Hardware, Software, Spares and Repairs for the Sam Coupe
Website: http://www.quazar.clara.net/ and http://www.samcoupe.com/
Issue Ten of "Sam Revival" Magazine Out Now

Nick Humphries wrote:

> And I really
> don't agree with you claiming that your petition was successful in "bringing
> YS back" as I haven't yet seen any evidence that it had any impact on either
> Live or Future in their decision to go ahead with the YS special.

Indeed. If anything, the Retro Gamer supplement has actually made it 
less likely that the stated terms of the petition will actually be 
carried out, because Future have presumably now signed away a 
not-insignificant chunk of the rights.

The YS revival went exactly the way I'd like to see any new official 
Spectrum going: with genuinely enthusiastic people taking the initiative 
and putting their money where their mouth is [1], getting the blessing 
from the rights holder along the way. Whether any group will find it 
cost-effective to do that remains to be seen (the fact that it happened 
for YS was a pleasant surprise for everybody), but it's got to be more 
constructive than gathering together untold thousands of names to tell 
Amstrad, "put YOUR money where OUR mouth is".


[1] yes, it's a metaphorical mouth, which is why this group of people 
only has one. Stupid idiom.

At some point in the past (Fri, 12 Nov 2004 04:23:49 GMT, as it happens), 
somebody called aoweninoz@yahoo.com.au (Andrew Owen) made the following 
views known to all at comp.sys.sinclair

> 4) No one will pay for it.
> 
> Sorry to put the kybosh on it but aside from a few enthusiasts, no one
> is going to fork out for a new machine. The gamers can use emulators
> on full PCs or portable stuff (see point 2). Programmers are more
> likely to use an emulator and/or BASin. The Russian Sprinter was a
> great Z80 based machine with Spectrum compatibility. It has just gone
> out of production because of a lack of interest - and it was
> relatively cheap to buy. If you really want a new machine I'd suggest
> trying to get one of the short run ATM Turbo 2s currently in
> production (no idea where from though).

Excellent point, and, sadly, true. I was talking to someone about this the 
other day, how the Windows PC more or less has the monopoly on the home 
computer market now - aside from the Macintosh family, there's nothing to 
rival the PC in the home computer market. I know, you can get PCs with 
different operating systems (Linux and such) but it's still a PC. 

Yes, I miss the times when the PC and Mac had rivals - when there was more 
choice. Up until ten years ago, as well as the PC and Mac (in fact the Mac 
was barely in contention back then), you had the Amiga, ST and Archimedes, 
all at similar specs to a PC, although less upgradeable. Okay, some 
hobbyists have upgraded their Amigas and Archimedes (RISC PC) to modern day 
specs, but none of these have been commercial.

I think there needs to be more choice in the home computer market, just as 
there was ten years ago, just as there is in the console market - and I 
don't just mean different brands of PC. If one of these choices was to 
carry the Sinclair brand, and of course be backwards-compatible (not just 
emulation) then so much the better.

Yes, I know I'm living in a dreamworld. 

Steve
-- 
'Hey hey 16k, where does that get you today?'


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On 15 Nov 2004 15:47:20 -0600 da kidz on comp.sys.sinclair were rappin'
to MC Steve Farrell:

> Yes, I miss the times when the PC and Mac had rivals - when there was more 
> choice. Up until ten years ago, as well as the PC and Mac (in fact the Mac 
> was barely in contention back then), you had the Amiga, ST and Archimedes, 
> all at similar specs to a PC, although less upgradeable.

I'd argue that ten years ago, the "Wintel" (I hate that word) PC may
have had the edge on price, but specs-wise - and certainly in the
user-friendliness stakes - it fell way behind.  Windows 95 wasn't even
out then, and tinkering with memory settings and drivers in config.sys
just to get one game working isn't my idea of fun (okay, I lie, it is
my idea of fun but only as a one-off, and I certainly wouldn't part
with my hard-earned cash for such a machine)

> Okay, some 
> hobbyists have upgraded their Amigas and Archimedes (RISC PC) to modern day 
> specs, but none of these have been commercial.

AmigaOne (http://www.eyetech.co.uk) and OS4 (http://os.amiga.com/os4)
are very much commercial.
The RISC PC is still alive and commercially available too, with RISC
OS (http://www.riscos.com) still being developed.  Darren Salt can
probably fill you in on the details of this one.
Even the ST has newer commercial versions from
http://www.milan-computer.de (I'm not sure you can still get hold of
these, but they certainly existed commercially up until a few years
ago), which AFAIK is a direct descendant of the original technology
(ie. not a clone).

The problem with the above three, is that the technology from the
original companies has been split up, passed around, sold to the
highest bidder, gone through periods of little or no development,
parts have become obsolete or unobtainable in the process, and you can
no longer walk into Dixons and buy one.

That doesn't mean they aren't commercially available.  Not
commercially viable, maybe.

> I think there needs to be more choice in the home computer market, just as 
> there was ten years ago, just as there is in the console market - and I 
> don't just mean different brands of PC. If one of these choices was to 
> carry the Sinclair brand, and of course be backwards-compatible (not just 
> emulation) then so much the better.

I absolutely agree.  I'm not sure there is less choice these days, I
think it is about the same.  However, if you want to buy software or
your computer in the High Street (and, let's face it, 99% of people
do), then you only really have two choices - "Wintel" PC or Mac. 
Maybe if you are really lucky, you might be able to pick up a Linux
distribution to install on your PC... erm, that you have already paid
for Windows on.

Any other hardware, you are out of luck (unless you head towards the
Internet).  There are possibly hundreds of different OSs available,
but 95% of them run on standard PC hardware, 98% of those have little
or no software, and 99% of them most people probably haven't heard of,
let alone found a good reason to use them, and <1% are available in PC
World.

So, the choice seems to have largely moved to which OS you want,
rather than which computer you want.  The perceived choice by the
majority of the population is whether to buy this PC running Windows,
or that one (which also runs Windows).  They don't realise that
this is an enforced choice, they are all rubbish, they will all crash
and there are better alternatives available - if you know where to
look.

The bad thing about the main choice (when you discover you have a
choice) being the OS, is that normal PC hardware, is crap.  What you
can do with the OS is limited by the hardware.  If the hardware isn't
up to it, you might be able to emulate the missing functionality in
software.  That would give you the feature, but it wouldn't work as
well as it could.  The good thing about 80's home computers was the OS
(which might be a bit too grand a term for most of them) was tied to
the hardware, and the hardware was known, so you could access the full
power of the machine.

This also happened to be their downfall, as the hardware couldn't be
changed significantly without breaking the existing software.  These
days, a properly coded OS and APIs for accessing the hardware could
solve this problem, due to advancements in processor speed and memory.
The hardware could be changed, and existing software (as long as it
played nice) could continue to run. 

Unfortunately Microsoft were already doing this (albeit badly), and
along with competition driving the prices down, it helped them take
over the computer market. They now have such a monopoly, that you
could release the best computer in the world and sell it for 75p and a
packet of Rolos, and most people probably wouldn't even notice.

Chris

-- 
+-------------------------------------------+
| Unsatisfactory Software - "because it is" |
|  http://www.unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk  |
| Your Sinclair: A Celebration              |
+- http://www.yoursinclair.co.uk -----------+

DISCLAIMER: I may be making all this stuff up again.

Matthew Westcott <gasman@raww.org> wrote in message news:<2vpum2F2krodjU1@uni-berlin.de>...

> The YS revival went exactly the way I'd like to see any new official 
> Spectrum going: with genuinely enthusiastic people taking the initiative 
> and putting their money where their mouth is [1], getting the blessing 
> from the rights holder along the way. Whether any group will find it 
> cost-effective to do that remains to be seen (the fact that it happened 
> for YS was a pleasant surprise for everybody), but it's got to be more 
> constructive than gathering together untold thousands of names to tell 
> Amstrad, "put YOUR money where OUR mouth is".

I second that. The thing is, nobody's ever been able to agree on what
a new Spectrum should be. With the ZX Spectrum SE my aim was to create
a machine with the broadest possible base of software and
compatibility - It will run anything written for the ZX80 through to
the +2, including the Timex 2068 (including cartridges) (it also runs
BBC Basic). So in that regard it's quite a desirable machine. However,
while a working prototype exists, I don't have the skills to translate
that into a mass produced machine. If someone was interested in
producing a clone of the SE I'd be happy to lend them the original
hardware for that purpose. Any takers?

On 15 Nov 2004 23:09:21 +0000, "Chris Young" <ng@yoursinclair.co.uk>
wrote:

>Maybe if you are really lucky, you might be able to pick up a Linux
>distribution to install on your PC... erm, that you have already paid
>for Windows on.

Legally, you are entitled to have the shop remove Windows from the PC,
and buy the PC at a price minus the cost of Windows
-- 
pete [at]  �     W H E N   B A C K E D   I N T O   A   C O R N E R . . . 
horseshoe  � "such a waste of space, such a small turd hanging on tightly to
[hyphen]   �  the arsehole of humanity, that he just isn't worth spending any
inn [dot]  �  time on." - Copyright infringer Nick Humphries talking about me.
co [dot] uk� 

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:25:03 +0000, Peter Thomas
<see-my-sig@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On 15 Nov 2004 23:09:21 +0000, "Chris Young" <ng@yoursinclair.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>Maybe if you are really lucky, you might be able to pick up a Linux
>>distribution to install on your PC... erm, that you have already paid
>>for Windows on.
>
>Legally, you are entitled to have the shop remove Windows from the PC,
>and buy the PC at a price minus the cost of Windows

Now find a shop that will do that. Many will prefer not to sell you the 
PC at all rather than take Windows off it, otherwise MS will get all 
pissy and charge them more for licenses or even revoke their license 
full stop.

MS have got the market by the balls and no fancy-pants legallity is
going to change that, it needs a grass roots movement of the buying
public away from MS. But practically everything they see, buy and use
has MS on it so where is it going to come from? Even with very fast,
very stable, very powerful, very beautiful Macs people still flock to 
Wintel. Too many people think that Windows is all there is and that 
every computer in the world runs it (that's an actual quote from a 
family friend).

I don't mind people being ignorant or stubborn but not when it cocks up
lots of things for people who want or have to use something else,
although that's hardly the sole preserve of IT.

Frink

-- 
Doctor J. Frink     : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
See his mind here   : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
"No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:13:55 -0500, Steve Farrell wrote:


> In related news, I have Linux now. Hurrah! Obviously, it's already better
> than Windows, and I've so far managed to avoid connecting to IRC
> embarrasingly as 'root'.

http://funroll-loops.org/

one of my favs on that page is about conecting to #debian as root ;-)  and
yes I am a debian user so I am fully entitled to laugh at people who just
don't get it ;-)

> 
> Steve

sparkes



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Peter Thomas wrote:

> On 15 Nov 2004 23:09:21 +0000, "Chris Young" <ng@yoursinclair.co.uk>
> wrote:
> 
>>Maybe if you are really lucky, you might be able to pick up a Linux
>>distribution to install on your PC... erm, that you have already paid
>>for Windows on.
> 
> Legally, you are entitled to have the shop remove Windows from the PC,
> and buy the PC at a price minus the cost of Windows

In related news, I have Linux now. Hurrah! Obviously, it's already better
than Windows, and I've so far managed to avoid connecting to IRC
embarrasingly as 'root'. 

Steve

sparkes wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:13:55 -0500, Steve Farrell wrote:
> 
> 
>> In related news, I have Linux now. Hurrah! Obviously, it's already better
>> than Windows, and I've so far managed to avoid connecting to IRC
>> embarrasingly as 'root'.
> 
> http://funroll-loops.org/
> 
> one of my favs on that page is about conecting to #debian as root ;-)  and
> yes I am a debian user so I am fully entitled to laugh at people who just
> don't get it ;-)

Ah, I opted for Knoppix, which, apparantley, is Debian-based. But it is
embarrasingly easy to *not* connect to IRC as 'root', so it baffles me why
so many Linux newbies manage this. Ah well, I suppose that's where the
funny is.

Steve