f



Which was the *real* Spectrum tape recorder speed?

I've read in brochures 1500 baud, somewhere else 1200 baud.
But 1500 baud are symbols per second and doesn't necessarily mean 1500
Bytes per second.
So I wonder which modulation format was used. FSK or PSK (and how many
shifts 2, 4...)?
Is that speed all "data" or there are control bits (e.g. error
correction etc...)?
In one sentence, which was the real speed in Bytes per second ?


\--------\retroGamer27\--------\

0
noSPAM1 (13)
10/18/2003 10:53:47 AM
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In article <3F911CF3.D78175FA@noSPAM.EVER>,
retrogamer27  <noSPAM@noSPAM.EVER> wrote:
>
>In one sentence, which was the real speed in Bytes per second ?

A reset bit is two pulses each of 855 tstates. A set bit is two pulses
each of 1710 tstates; therefore the speed depends on the fraction of set
bits in your data, but is trivially calculatable from the above two
numbers (and the speed of your processor).

Phil

-- 
  Philip Kendall <pak21@srcf.ucam.org>
  http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~pak21/
0
pak21 (655)
10/18/2003 1:22:28 PM
retrogamer27 <noSPAM@noSPAM.EVER> wrote in message news:<3F911CF3.D78175FA@noSPAM.EVER>...
> I've read in brochures 1500 baud, somewhere else 1200 baud.
> But 1500 baud are symbols per second and doesn't necessarily mean 1500
> Bytes per second.
> So I wonder which modulation format was used. FSK or PSK (and how many
> shifts 2, 4...)?

FSK, 2 shifts.  The output port is single bit - high or low.  PSK
would be inherently less reliable on something like a tape recorder. 
I can't think of any machine that used more than a 1-bit port to
output tape data.  That would have been an unnecessary expense and
probably wasted on an anologue recording device like a tape recorder.

> Is that speed all "data" or there are control bits (e.g. error
> correction etc...)?

There's a single byte checksum with no error correction.  Normal tape
files have a 17-byte header describing the data block (ie is it a
program, saved variables, a binary, etc.; how long is it, where in
memory should it be, is it a basic program that autostarts).  However,
you can (and most programs did) save pure data blocks without the
header.  There are also synchronization pulses before the data/header
proper to give a chance to the tape loader software to sync up with
the recorded signal when loading.

> In one sentence, which was the real speed in Bytes per second ?

As Phil responded, 855*2 T-states to record a 0 (this works out to
488.57us) and 1710*2 T-states to record a 1 (977.14us).  If all 0s are
recorded, you get an effective speed of 2047 bps and if all 1s are
recorded, 1023 bps.

An equal number of 0s and 1s means an average speed of 1365 bps.  When
talking tape saving, 1 baud = 1 bps (bits per second, not bytes per
second).

This applies to the tape loading/saving routines as stored in the ROM;
many have written faster -- the bandwidth of the tape output port and
speed of the processor determine the useable baud rate with FSK.
0
A936 (148)
10/18/2003 5:33:30 PM

Alvin wrote:

> FSK, 2 shifts.  The output port is single bit - high or low.  PSK
> would be inherently less reliable on something like a tape recorder.
> I can't think of any machine that used more than a 1-bit port to
> output tape data.  That would have been an unnecessary expense and
> probably wasted on an anologue recording device like a tape recorder.

I see no reason why you shouldn't be right, I had no exact idea what maximum analog tape
performances could be and I was trying to figure out as 1500 baud didn't tell me much unless
the modulation was specified.

> > Is that speed all "data" or there are control bits (e.g. error
> > correction etc...)?
>
> There's a single byte checksum with no error correction.  Normal tape
> files have a 17-byte header describing the data block (ie is it a
> program, saved variables, a binary, etc.; how long is it, where in
> memory should it be, is it a basic program that autostarts).  However,
> you can (and most programs did) save pure data blocks without the
> header.  There are also synchronization pulses before the data/header
> proper to give a chance to the tape loader software to sync up with
> the recorded signal when loading.

Ok, then saying "1500 baud" probably takes those extra bytes into account and the real speed
for "useful" data is a bit less than the nominal value.
Finding out transfer speed for a specific program seems to start involving more variables
then, however I was just looking for a rough average.

> > In one sentence, which was the real speed in Bytes per second ?
>
> As Phil responded, 855*2 T-states to record a 0 (this works out to
> 488.57us) and 1710*2 T-states to record a 1 (977.14us).  If all 0s are
> recorded, you get an effective speed of 2047 bps and if all 1s are
> recorded, 1023 bps.
>
> An equal number of 0s and 1s means an average speed of 1365 bps.

Yes, I was considering those bits as being completely independent variables though this is
probably not much correct as I think I should instead consider the encoding for the most used
instructions and if blocks of text are present I probably should consider the most common
english letters too. But, as said, I was just looking for a rough average.

> When
> talking tape saving, 1 baud = 1 bps (bits per second, not bytes per
> second).

Not knowing what the modulation format was it should be read as "doesn't necessarily mean as
fast as 1500 Bytes per second" (unless for some strange miracle someone used a 256-PSK... :-)
)

>
> This applies to the tape loading/saving routines as stored in the ROM;
> many have written faster -- the bandwidth of the tape output port and
> speed of the processor determine the useable baud rate with FSK.

But those routines are hardwired in the ROM, how could be replaced? Maybe intercepting any
load/save call?


\--------\retroGamer27\--------\




0
noSPAM1 (13)
10/19/2003 6:14:35 PM
retrogamer27 <noSPAM@noSPAM.EVER> wrote:
> > This applies to the tape loading/saving routines as stored in the ROM;
> > many have written faster -- the bandwidth of the tape output port and
> > speed of the processor determine the useable baud rate with FSK.
> 
> But those routines are hardwired in the ROM, how could be replaced? Maybe
> intercepting any load/save call?

RAND USR x:SAVE "f" [options]
RAND USR x:LOAD "x" [options]

where the code at x advances CH_ADD and parses the SAVE/LOAD etc, and calls
it's own routines.

Or just a plain RAND USR x where the code at x does whatever LOAD/SAVEing
you want.

-- 
JGH - www.mdfs.net
0
jgh2 (975)
10/20/2003 2:26:17 PM
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storing spectrum in real time
Hi all, I am trying to log the spectrum of four signals while I am recording the time series data also. Currently I have some sample programs to log the time series. But I do not know how to extract the spectrum in real time and store it simultaneously. How can I do it? ...

Sinclair Spectrum vs. Abacus
I think the Abacus wins, more power, better graphics. On 19 Jun 2004 17:37:16 -0700, rest_ampere@yahoo.com (Ted Harvard) wrote: >I think the Abacus wins, more power, better graphics. Billy Goats Gruff always wins, actually. -- pete [at] � W H E N B A C K E D I N T O A C O R N E R . . . horseshoe � "such a waste of space, such a small turd hanging on tightly to [hyphen] � the arsehole of humanity, that he just isn't worth spending any inn [dot] � time on." - Copyright infringer Nick Humphries talking about me. co [dot] uk� "Ted Harvard" <rest_ampere@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f89143b2.0406191637.193d025c@posting.google.com... > I think the Abacus wins, more power, better graphics. Troll vs Newbie Troll = ? > Troll vs Newbie Troll = ? Can somebody explain me what means "troll" in english ? Is it something like "trotl" in german ? B PLONK! "Ted Harvard" <rest_ampere@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f89143b2.0406191637.193d025c@posting.google.com... > I think the Abacus wins, more power, better graphics. "Ted Harvard" <rest_ampere@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f89143b2.0406191637.193d025c@posting.google.com... > I think the Abacus wins, more power, better graphics. I must admit that Codies' "Advanced Professional Abacus-based Counting Simulator" is fairly second rate on the speccy compared to the abacus version, which d...

Web resources about - Which was the *real* Spectrum tape recorder speed? - comp.sys.sinclair

Emission spectrum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The emission spectrum of a chemical element or chemical compound is the spectrum of frequencies of electromagnetic radiation emitted by the element's ...

Making a Murderer filmmakers Moira Demos and Laura Ricciardi coming to Australia for Spectrum Now Festival ...
The filmmakers behind the hit Netflix series will be in conversation with Charlie Pickering at an exclusive festival event.

Spectrum Now Festival: Tom Polo's unusual addition to Art Gallery of NSW
Artist Tom Polo would love you to stop and have a chat with him as he goes about creating his huge piece of wall art at the Art Gallery of NSW. ...

Logitech Announces The Ambidextrous G900 Chaos Spectrum Gaming Mouse
Today Logitech is announcing the latest in their lineup of gaming mice. The G900 Chaos Spectrum is a wired and wireless mouse, and it is one ...

Those without autism spectrum disorder diagnosis may still be on genetic spectrum
(credit: Mayo Clinic Gene Expression Core ) Almost all autism spectrum disorders (ASD) risk factors that we know about are found in the unaffected, ...

Dish: Less Downside Given Spectrum Discount, Says Wunderlich
Shares of satellite TV provider Dish Network (DISH) are up $1.66, or almost 4%, at $45.82, after Wunderlich Securities’s Matthew Harrigan raised ...

Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum wireless gaming mouse outperforms wired mice
... wired mice can have less lag, offering better performance. Today, Logitech announces a gaming-focused mouse. Called the G900 Chaos Spectrum, ...

People from all over the political spectrum compared Trump to Hitler this weekend
... accomplishment was educating the world about the joys of bunga bunga parties . That said, a lot of people from across the political spectrum ...

T-Mobile gets $2 billion boost ahead of game-changing spectrum auction
... compete with arch-rivals AT&T and Verizon. The company (Nasdaq: TMUS) is stocking up on cash ahead of a Federal Communications Commission spectrum ...

Israel Harnesses Skills of Soldiers on the Autism Spectrum
Pvt. E never thought he'd join the army. As someone on the autism spectrum, he struggled with certain social situations and would get easily ...

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