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Upgrading Graphics in a Blade 100 - Elite 3d M3 or Creator 3D ?

Hi,

I want to give my Blade a bit of a boost in the graphics department, and 
have seen a number of Elite 3d M3 and Creator 3D cards on the market for 
about the same price.  I'm a bit stuck as to which one is infact "Better"

Which would you recommend?

Hardeep.

0
mail9763 (7)
12/20/2003 9:12:56 PM
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On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Hardeep Rakhra wrote:

> I want to give my Blade a bit of a boost in the graphics department, and
> have seen a number of Elite 3d M3 and Creator 3D cards on the market for
> about the same price.  I'm a bit stuck as to which one is infact "Better"

What frame buffer do you currently have?  And what do you define as better?
(Better resolution, better 3D stuff, better 2S stuff, etc.)

-- 
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA                               .  *   * . * .* .
                                                     .   *   .   .*
President,                                          * .  . /\ ( .  . *
Rite Online Inc.                                     . .  / .\   . * .
                                                    .*.  / *  \  . .
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Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638                            *   '''||'''   .
URL: http://www.rite-online.net                     ******************
0
rich.teer (666)
12/20/2003 10:03:24 PM
>>I want to give my Blade a bit of a boost in the graphics department, and
>>have seen a number of Elite 3d M3 and Creator 3D cards on the market for
>>about the same price.  I'm a bit stuck as to which one is infact "Better"
> 
> What frame buffer do you currently have?  And what do you define as better?
> (Better resolution, better 3D stuff, better 2S stuff, etc.)

Not sure what framebuffer the SB100 has (some ATI m64) but mine used to
be very annoying, giving a very high pitch sound when you opened certain 
web pages (usually lots of text on a white background) regardless of
what resolution/refresh-rate I tried.

The problem when away when I installed another framebuffer, a Creator 3D 
(I think) that I took from another machine.

0
delrio (67)
12/20/2003 11:07:46 PM
Hardeep Rakhra <mail@rakhra.org.uk> writes in comp.sys.sun.hardware:
|I want to give my Blade a bit of a boost in the graphics department, and 
|have seen a number of Elite 3d M3 and Creator 3D cards on the market for 
|about the same price.  I'm a bit stuck as to which one is infact "Better"
|
|Which would you recommend?

I recommend neither for a Sun Blade 100 as both require a UPA slot and
the Blade has only PCI.  You'll have to go with one of the ifb series
cards (Expert 3D, XVR-500, XVR-600, XVR-1200) - but I don't think all of
them are supported due to size/power restrictions.  The Sun System
Handbook ( http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/ ) only lists the Expert
3D Lite as an option, but the XVR-500 is listed as supported in the
almost identical SB 150, so it might also work.  (The XVR-100, which is
the replacement for the PGX series, such as the PGX-64 on the SB100
motherboard, is also listed as compatible with the SB 150, but it
wouldn't be as big of a boost, though it can do higher resolutions.)

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
Alan Coopersmith                              alanc@alum.calberkeley.org
http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~alanc/       aka: Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM
  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
0
alanc (89)
12/20/2003 11:51:28 PM
Alan Coopersmith wrote:

> I recommend neither for a Sun Blade 100 as both require a UPA slot and
> the Blade has only PCI.  You'll have to go with one of the ifb series
> cards (Expert 3D, XVR-500, XVR-600, XVR-1200) - but I don't think all of
> them are supported due to size/power restrictions.  The Sun System
> Handbook ( http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/ ) only lists the Expert
> 3D Lite as an option, but the XVR-500 is listed as supported in the
> almost identical SB 150, so it might also work.  (The XVR-100, which is
> the replacement for the PGX series, such as the PGX-64 on the SB100
> motherboard, is also listed as compatible with the SB 150, but it
> wouldn't be as big of a boost, though it can do higher resolutions.)

Hi thanks for that, i didn't spot the UPA issue! Oh well i'm stuck with 
the stange noises from the system then :O( Bugger.

Oh well.

Hardeep.


0
mail9763 (7)
12/21/2003 12:03:12 AM
Rich Teer wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Hardeep Rakhra wrote:
> 
> 
>>I want to give my Blade a bit of a boost in the graphics department, and
>>have seen a number of Elite 3d M3 and Creator 3D cards on the market for
>>about the same price.  I'm a bit stuck as to which one is infact "Better"
> 
> 
> What frame buffer do you currently have?  And what do you define as better?
> (Better resolution, better 3D stuff, better 2S stuff, etc.)
> 

Well high res 2d really, but more so to elimiate the squeel the onboard 
chip makes when running in high res and colour. :O(

Hardeep.

0
mail9763 (7)
12/21/2003 12:04:16 AM
Hardeep Rakhra wrote:

> Alan Coopersmith wrote:
> 
>> I recommend neither for a Sun Blade 100 as both require a UPA slot and
>> the Blade has only PCI.  You'll have to go with one of the ifb series
>> cards (Expert 3D, XVR-500, XVR-600, XVR-1200) - but I don't think all of
>> them are supported due to size/power restrictions.  The Sun System
>> Handbook ( http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/ ) only lists the Expert
>> 3D Lite as an option, but the XVR-500 is listed as supported in the
>> almost identical SB 150, so it might also work.  (The XVR-100, which is
>> the replacement for the PGX series, such as the PGX-64 on the SB100
>> motherboard, is also listed as compatible with the SB 150, but it
>> wouldn't be as big of a boost, though it can do higher resolutions.)
> 
> 
> Hi thanks for that, i didn't spot the UPA issue! Oh well i'm stuck with 
> the stange noises from the system then :O( Bugger.

Below is the framebuffer I installed in my SB100:
TSI Raptor GFX 8P (a.k.a PGX32?)

Check also
http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Devices/Graphics/graphics-matrix.html
http://www.ace-electronics.com/Hardware/Graphics_Cards/GRFX.htm


--- Hardware Configuration for gfxp0 ---
Type: GFX8P
Board: TSI Raptor GFX 8P
PROM Information: 1.11 99/07/06 TSI
DAC: TSI RAMDAC 0x31
RAM: 8MB
EDID Data: None Available
Current resolution setting: 1280x1024x75
Possible depths: 8, 24, 8+24
Current depth: 8+24

0
delrio (67)
12/21/2003 5:01:34 AM
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, Hardeep Rakhra wrote:

> Well high res 2d really, but more so to elimiate the squeel the onboard
> chip makes when running in high res and colour. :O(

In that case, the Series 3 Creator 3D is what you're after.
But, as others have pointed out, the lack of a UPA slot
means you can't fit one.  (When I read your original post,
I misread your machine as an SB 1000.)

-- 
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA                               .  *   * . * .* .
                                                     .   *   .   .*
President,                                          * .  . /\ ( .  . *
Rite Online Inc.                                     . .  / .\   . * .
                                                    .*.  / *  \  . .
                                                      . /*   o \     .
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638                            *   '''||'''   .
URL: http://www.rite-online.net                     ******************
0
rich.teer (666)
12/21/2003 6:30:44 AM
Oscar del Rio wrote:


> 
> Below is the framebuffer I installed in my SB100:
> TSI Raptor GFX 8P (a.k.a PGX32?)
> 
> Check also
> http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Devices/Graphics/graphics-matrix.html
> http://www.ace-electronics.com/Hardware/Graphics_Cards/GRFX.htm
> 

I find it strange that u can now get solaris of x86 which supports all 
manner of graphics cards, yet for an actual sun box i have to use a 
actual sun graphics card.

Hardeep.

0
mail9763 (7)
12/21/2003 2:00:51 PM
Hardeep Rakhra wrote:

> Oscar del Rio wrote:

> 
> I find it strange that u can now get solaris of x86 which supports all 
> manner of graphics cards, yet for an actual sun box i have to use a 
> actual sun graphics card.
> 
> Hardeep.
> 

Just a quick question..... why is this....

http://www.ace-electronics.com/Hardware/Graphics_Cards/gfx-450.htm

different to this.....

http://matrox.com/mga/products/mill_g450/pci.cfm

to me that is the same card though and though. maybe with just a diffret 
  BIOS loaded, whick could probably be dumped using the Matrox flash 
tool and then flashed to the PC varient making it SUN happy :O)

Hardeep.


0
mail9763 (7)
12/21/2003 3:22:29 PM
Hardeep Rakhra <mail@rakhra.org.uk> writes in comp.sys.sun.hardware:
|I find it strange that u can now get solaris of x86 which supports all 
|manner of graphics cards, yet for an actual sun box i have to use a 
|actual sun graphics card.

There are a few third-party cards you can use, but they're specifically
designed for use in a Sun.  To be usable, the card needs to support the
Sun's OpenBoot PROM instead of a PC BIOS.  (The XVR-100 is actually a
customized ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Edition, since Macs also use the
OpenFirmware standard upon which OBP is based.)

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
Alan Coopersmith                              alanc@alum.calberkeley.org
http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~alanc/       aka: Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM
  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
0
alanc (89)
12/21/2003 5:16:47 PM
Alan Coopersmith <alanc@alum.calberkeley.org> writes:

> Hardeep Rakhra <mail@rakhra.org.uk> writes in comp.sys.sun.hardware:
> |I find it strange that u can now get solaris of x86 which supports all 
> |manner of graphics cards, yet for an actual sun box i have to use a 
> |actual sun graphics card.
> 
> There are a few third-party cards you can use, but they're specifically
> designed for use in a Sun.  To be usable, the card needs to support the
> Sun's OpenBoot PROM instead of a PC BIOS.  (The XVR-100 is actually a
> customized ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Edition, since Macs also use the
> OpenFirmware standard upon which OBP is based.)

The main remaining problem being that high-end cards use AGP variants,
and Sun refuses to license AGP, so the best we can expect leveraging
the Mac graphics card market is whatever the manufacturers deign to
release in plain-vanilla PCI. Typically not the latest and greatest.

Sun's big idea after PCI is PCI Express. I'm not sure if any graphics
cards are shipping with that interface yet, but Sun's current product
don't use it, so the current dismal* state of graphics on Sun machines
looks forecast to continue almost indefinitely.

Chris

*this is my own personal view. For my work, I'm firstly concerned with
 fast 2d graphics, a bit interested in 3d/opengl and I hardly care
 about texture mapping at all - based on the product I work on
-- 
Chris Morgan
   "Post posting of policy changes by the boss will result in 
    real rule revisions that are irreversible"

		- anonymous correspondent
0
cm (189)
12/23/2003 5:21:06 PM
Hardeep Rakhra <mail@rakhra.org.uk> writes in comp.sys.sun.hardware:
|Well high res 2d really, but more so to elimiate the squeel the onboard 
|chip makes when running in high res and colour. :O(

Then a PGX-32, PGX-64 or XVR-100 card from Sun, or a number of the
boards from TechSource, could solve the problem.  Also check out the
entry on this in the old SB100 FAQ:
http://040.digital-bless.com/texts/Unofficial_Sun_Blade_100_FAQ.htm#file_33

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
Alan Coopersmith                              alanc@alum.calberkeley.org
http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~alanc/       aka: Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM
  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
0
alanc (89)
12/23/2003 6:04:35 PM
Dans article <86oetzbgcd.fsf@elrond.bloomberg.com>, cm@mihalis.net 
disait...
> 
> Sun's big idea after PCI is PCI Express. I'm not sure if any graphics
> cards are shipping with that interface yet

HIgh-end cards are beginning to ship in PCI-X flavor. Some G5 mac are 
available with PCI-X graphics. PCI-X should replace rapidly AGP at least 
in the high-end.

-- 
Quis, quid, ubi, quibus auxiliis, cur, quomodo, quando?
0
eflorac1 (28)
12/23/2003 6:25:49 PM
Emmanuel Florac <eflorac@verisign.com> writes:

> Dans article <86oetzbgcd.fsf@elrond.bloomberg.com>, cm@mihalis.net 
> disait...
> > 
> > Sun's big idea after PCI is PCI Express. I'm not sure if any graphics
> > cards are shipping with that interface yet
> 
> HIgh-end cards are beginning to ship in PCI-X flavor. Some G5 mac are 
> available with PCI-X graphics. PCI-X should replace rapidly AGP at least 
> in the high-end.

we waited so long for Sun Blade 2500, and it doesn't have PCI
Express. Is PCI-X the same thing?

Chris
-- 
Chris Morgan
   "Post posting of policy changes by the boss will result in 
    real rule revisions that are irreversible"

		- anonymous correspondent
0
cm (189)
12/23/2003 9:12:29 PM
Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net> writes:

> Emmanuel Florac <eflorac@verisign.com> writes:
> 
> > Dans article <86oetzbgcd.fsf@elrond.bloomberg.com>, cm@mihalis.net 
> > disait...
> > > 
> > > Sun's big idea after PCI is PCI Express. I'm not sure if any graphics
> > > cards are shipping with that interface yet
> > 
> > HIgh-end cards are beginning to ship in PCI-X flavor. Some G5 mac are 
> > available with PCI-X graphics. PCI-X should replace rapidly AGP at least 
> > in the high-end.
> 
> we waited so long for Sun Blade 2500, and it doesn't have PCI
> Express. Is PCI-X the same thing?

Sorry to follow-up myself, but :-

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://archive.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/07/24/020724hnpcispecs.xml

" PCI Express will allow high-end graphics cards and other
interconnects such as USB (universal serial bus) 2.0 and Infiniband to
communicate with PCs at 2.5Gbps per lane per direction.

PCI-X is fully backwards-compatible with PCI, meaning that PCI-X cards
can be plugged into PCI slots, and software written for PCI-X will
work on PCI-equipped PCs. However, the PCI-X cards will exchange data
at PCI speeds when plugged into PCI slots."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been told unequivocally that Sun Workstations will move from
PCI to PCI Express. However, that could be a misunderstanding, it
might be PCI-X. However, I bet "those who know, can't say", as usual! 

Chris
-- 
Chris Morgan
   "Post posting of policy changes by the boss will result in 
    real rule revisions that are irreversible"

		- anonymous correspondent
0
cm (189)
12/23/2003 9:17:53 PM
Oscar del Rio wrote:
>  Not sure what framebuffer the SB100 has (some ATI m64)

ATI Rage XL

>  but mine used to be very annoying, giving a very high pitch sound
>  when you opened certain web pages (usually lots of text on a white
>  background) regardless of what resolution/refresh-rate I tried.

A problem with pre revision 6 mainboards and 24bpp colour. You can work 
around it by disconnecting the internal speaker or setting the display 
depth to 8bpp colour.

-- 
Wishing you good fortune,
--Robin Kay-- (komadori)

0
komadori (25)
12/23/2003 10:13:40 PM
Reply: