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TRSDOS II, version 4.2.0, 4.2.2, 4.2.4, 4.2.6 (or 4.3.x or 4.4)

Hi, Group

I require a copy of the above DOS, but I need it _on disk_ as I do not have
an emulator for the Model II that must be tested.

Is there any possible sources of the OS on disk, or can you advise if the
original 8" drive can be hooked to another device so that I can transfer an
electronic copy to the disk to boot the machine?

What other options do I have?

Thanks
L


0
Louis
1/14/2005 7:08:35 AM
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replying to my own post :-)

I found an article here (http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html) where
Tim describes a trick to rescue a disk's contents.  This should be a
workable solution for my predicament ?

any idvice will be appreciated
L

"Louis" <tmii@icon.co.za> wrote in message
news:cs7r5r$15db$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za...
> Hi, Group
>
> I require a copy of the above DOS, but I need it _on disk_ as I do not
have
> an emulator for the Model II that must be tested.
>
> Is there any possible sources of the OS on disk, or can you advise if the
> original 8" drive can be hooked to another device so that I can transfer
an
> electronic copy to the disk to boot the machine?
>
> What other options do I have?
>
> Thanks
> L
>
>


0
Louis
1/14/2005 5:52:11 PM
"Louis" <tmii@icon.co.za> wrote in message
news:cs90se$17o0$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za...
| replying to my own post :-)
|
| I found an article here (http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html)
where
| Tim describes a trick to rescue a disk's contents.  This should be a
| workable solution for my predicament ?

Do you have a CatWeasel?

N


0
NSM
1/14/2005 8:56:09 PM
"NSM" <nowrite@to.me> wrote in message 
news:JlWFd.94089$dv1.19692@edtnps89...
>
> "Louis" <tmii@icon.co.za> wrote in message
> news:cs90se$17o0$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za...
> | replying to my own post :-)
> |
> | I found an article here (http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html)
> where
> | Tim describes a trick to rescue a disk's contents.  This should be a
> | workable solution for my predicament ?
>
> Do you have a CatWeasel?
>
> N

You shouldn't need a catweasel.  The Model II (12,16,6000) use a formatting 
scheme very similar to a PC so there are several utilities that will work. 
All that is needed is a cable and disk images.

Randy 


0
Randy
1/14/2005 10:29:56 PM
"Randy McLaughlin" <randy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:bIXFd.14301$tF.9639@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

| You shouldn't need a catweasel.  The Model II (12,16,6000) use a
formatting
| scheme very similar to a PC so there are several utilities that will work.
| All that is needed is a cable and disk images.

I'm sure Ira will host them if we extract them.

N


0
NSM
1/14/2005 11:32:01 PM
"NSM" <nowrite@to.me> wrote in message 
news:RDYFd.94922$dv1.34225@edtnps89...
>
> "Randy McLaughlin" <randy@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:bIXFd.14301$tF.9639@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> | You shouldn't need a catweasel.  The Model II (12,16,6000) use a
> formatting
> | scheme very similar to a PC so there are several utilities that will 
> work.
> | All that is needed is a cable and disk images.
>
> I'm sure Ira will host them if we extract them.
>
> N

Old 8" drives running MFM (double density) uses the same format and transfer 
rate as 3.5"HD.  8" single density on the other hand uses FM and most PC 
disk controllers can no longer handle it (the catweasel will work).

I have some Model II CP/M disk images I've been meaning to transfer to 
teledisk format.  I'll see what I can do before next weekend.



Randy 


0
Randy
1/14/2005 11:54:46 PM
"Randy McLaughlin" <randy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:JXYFd.14532$tF.1099@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

| Old 8" drives running MFM (double density) uses the same format and
transfer
| rate as 3.5"HD.  8" single density on the other hand uses FM and most PC
| disk controllers can no longer handle it (the catweasel will work).
|
| I have some Model II CP/M disk images I've been meaning to transfer to
| teledisk format.  I'll see what I can do before next weekend.

I'm betting my 386 will. It handles a 5.25" drive fine to read Model III and
Coco disks.

N


0
NSM
1/15/2005 12:33:33 AM
"NSM" <nowrite@to.me> wrote in message 
news:xxZFd.95259$dv1.75921@edtnps89...
>
> "Randy McLaughlin" <randy@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:JXYFd.14532$tF.1099@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> | Old 8" drives running MFM (double density) uses the same format and
> transfer
> | rate as 3.5"HD.  8" single density on the other hand uses FM and most PC
> | disk controllers can no longer handle it (the catweasel will work).
> |
> | I have some Model II CP/M disk images I've been meaning to transfer to
> | teledisk format.  I'll see what I can do before next weekend.
>
> I'm betting my 386 will. It handles a 5.25" drive fine to read Model III 
> and
> Coco disks.
>
> N

I have never found a PC that didn't handle 8" MFM (excluding laptops), FM is 
a problem but I don't think the Model II needs FM.  I have an old Compaq 
P100 that handles both FM & MFM, I use it for 8" transfers.

There are plenty of old systems that needs an FM (single density) boot track 
and those require special hardware.

Randy 


0
Randy
1/15/2005 12:45:23 AM
"Randy McLaughlin" <randy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:bHZFd.14544$tF.12190@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

| I have never found a PC that didn't handle 8" MFM (excluding laptops), FM
is
| a problem but I don't think the Model II needs FM.  I have an old Compaq
| P100 that handles both FM & MFM, I use it for 8" transfers.

The Model 16/6000 Xenix disks used a separate boot track. I know because to
back them up with 'dd' you needed two commands, one for the outer track, one
for the rest. I thought the TRSDOS II/12 did the same but it's been a long
time.

| There are plenty of old systems that needs an FM (single density) boot
track
| and those require special hardware.

I somehow think that the rate for FM is the rate for 360K floppies. No?

N


0
NSM
1/15/2005 1:04:23 AM
Randy McLaughlin <randy@nospam.com> wrote:
: You shouldn't need a catweasel.  The Model II (12,16,6000) use a formatting 
: scheme very similar to a PC so there are several utilities that will work. 
: All that is needed is a cable and disk images.

Model II operating systems all have odd formats.

Bootable media has cylinder 0 head 0 with 128 byte FM sectors close to the
IBM 3740/3741 format.  It is the only floppy diskette format that the Model
II/12/16/16B/6000 systems will boot from.

The remaining tracks on one or both heads are in the native format for the OS
in question:

TRSDOS 2.0[a/b]         27 sectors (26 reported) per track, 256 bytes,
                        MFM encoding.  The hidden 27th sector is used by the
                        OS for disk change detection and a rudimentary
                        copy-protection scheme.  It contains no user data.

TRSDOS-II 4.x           16 sectors per track, 512 bytes, MFM encoding.
                        Single or Double-sided
XENIX                   16 sectors per track, 512 bytes, MFM encoding.
                        Single or Double-sided

By default, all these formats assume 77 track 8" drives.  XENIX supported
80 track format patterns for use on 80-track 5 1/4" media if you had the
latter OS versions.  LS-DOS also supported floppy diskette drives with more
than 77 tracks.

Some sectors on TRSDOS disks also have DELETED data marks.  XENIX and its
formatter (disktil/z80ctl) didn't mark sectors differently.

Non-bootable diskettes could have the same format on all tracks including
cylinder 0 head 0, such as the TRSDOS-II DUMP/RESTORE format diskettes.

As to a replacement diskette, you might enquire at:
        http://madsoft.lonestar.org/catalog/diskettes.html
which still has or can make a lot of these diskettes from rescued factory
masters, and some are available on more-stable 5 1/4" HD media for upgraded
Model II/12/16/16B/6000 systems.


Frank Durda IV - only this address works:|"I used to take unwanted Microsoft
<uhclemLOSE.jan05%nemesis.lonestar.org>  | Compact Discs and use them as
You must remove the "LOSE" to mail me.   | drink coasters, but their CDs, like
        http://nemesis.lonestar.org      | their software, have holes in them."
Copr. 2005, ask before reprinting.

0
Frank
1/15/2005 1:44:37 AM
Hi, All

thanks for the debate, and helpful pointers.

I have followed Frank's advice and required via the URL he provided for a
disk.

I'll have to wait to see if I can get the disk before I attempt to get
adventurous and rig up other hardware to handle the image.

Regards
L
"Louis" <tmii@icon.co.za> wrote in message
news:cs7r5r$15db$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za...
> Hi, Group
>
> I require a copy of the above DOS, but I need it _on disk_ as I do not
have
> an emulator for the Model II that must be tested.
>
> Is there any possible sources of the OS on disk, or can you advise if the
> original 8" drive can be hooked to another device so that I can transfer
an
> electronic copy to the disk to boot the machine?
>
> What other options do I have?
>
> Thanks
> L
>
>


0
Louis
1/15/2005 10:21:42 AM
nope - will have to get hold of one if I have to revert to 'PLAN B' (image
to modified hardware)

L
"NSM" <nowrite@to.me> wrote in message
news:JlWFd.94089$dv1.19692@edtnps89...
>
> "Louis" <tmii@icon.co.za> wrote in message
> news:cs90se$17o0$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za...
> | replying to my own post :-)
> |
> | I found an article here (http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html)
> where
> | Tim describes a trick to rescue a disk's contents.  This should be a
> | workable solution for my predicament ?
>
> Do you have a CatWeasel?
>
> N
>
>


0
Louis
1/15/2005 10:23:53 AM
"NSM" <nowrite@to.me> wrote:

>> There are plenty of old systems that needs an FM (single density) boot
>> track and those require special hardware.

>I somehow think that the rate for FM is the rate for 360K floppies. No?

	No.  IBM PC 360K floppies are still MFM double-density.

	The controller chips they used in the older 80s-through-early-90s PC's
may have _supported_ FM single-density, but I don't think any of the
"official" IBM PC disc formats ever _used_ it.  (The early 180K format was,
if memory serves, double-density single-sided.)

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so irrational it cannot be justified in any other way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
solarfox@DON'TMESSWITHtexas.net                              (Gary Akins jr.)
http://lonestar.texas.net/~solarfox
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0
solarfox
1/15/2005 4:11:16 PM
"Louis" <tmii@icon.co.za> wrote in message
news:csaqvr$1ifq$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za...
| nope - will have to get hold of one if I have to revert to 'PLAN B' (image
| to modified hardware)

If you can find a Model 16/6000 running Xenix you can 'rip' the images with
'dd'.

N


0
NSM
1/15/2005 6:58:41 PM
Reply: