I recently downloaded a PDF file from the Internal Revenue site, and
that file was a form that could be saved with my Acrobat 6.0 Reader
after I filled it in.  What product would I need to create these forms
myself?  Will Adobe Acrobat 7.0 Professional do this?

thx . . .

Frank wrote:
> I recently downloaded a PDF file from the Internal Revenue site, and
> that file was a form that could be saved with my Acrobat 6.0 Reader
> after I filled it in.  What product would I need to create these forms
> myself?  Will Adobe Acrobat 7.0 Professional do this?
> 
> thx . . .
> 
You need to create an "enabled" form. Acrobat will NOT let you do this. 
You need the Adobe Reader Extensions Server, which is expensive. It is 
aimed at organisations with deep pockets, like governements.

The high price is not really surprising, if you consider that an enabled 
form gives users of the form Acrobat-like functionality without them 
having to pay for it.

Marco

Frank wrote:
> I recently downloaded a PDF file from the Internal Revenue site, and
> that file was a form that could be saved with my Acrobat 6.0 Reader
> after I filled it in.  What product would I need to create these forms
> myself?  Will Adobe Acrobat 7.0 Professional do this?
>
> thx . . .

I'm not familiar with that particular form, but Adobe Acrobat Professional 
ver. 7 comes bundled with Adobe Designer Ver 7.  Designer creates forms in a 
PDF format.  You can use VB scripts or it's own internal script tool to make 
the forms interactive or to perform tasks (e.g. calculations for invoices).

I've have had excellent results.  The problem is that the full professional 
version is expensive unless you have a previous version to upgrade from. 

Gaderian wrote:
>
> I'm not familiar with that particular form, but Adobe Acrobat
Professional
> ver. 7 comes bundled with Adobe Designer Ver 7.  Designer creates
forms in a
> PDF format.  You can use VB scripts or it's own internal script tool
to make
> the forms interactive or to perform tasks (e.g. calculations for
invoices).
>
> I've have had excellent results.  The problem is that the full
professional
> version is expensive unless you have a previous version to upgrade
from.

The form is a 1040-ES, which I downloaded for my own use.  When it
opened it said it had been enabled so I could save it, and I thought
"Dang!!  Why can't they do this at work?"  Based on Marco's reply, the
end user can't save this form with the reader -- can they?

Marco Kesseler wrote:
> You need to create an "enabled" form. Acrobat will NOT let you do
this.
> You need the Adobe Reader Extensions Server, which is expensive. It
is
> aimed at organisations with deep pockets, like governements.
>
> The high price is not really surprising, if you consider that an
enabled
> form gives users of the form Acrobat-like functionality without them
> having to pay for it.
>
> Marco

Thanks Marco.  I work for a company with about 1200 employees
statewide.  Our Human Resources department is doing evaluations and
other forms in PDF format, and our local administrators have to fill
them out and can't save them.  We've been buying them Adobe Acrobat 7.0
Professional just so they can save these forms.

Hi,

I wanted to jump in here for a moment.  If you are interactively filling in
forms then why start with a PDF?  Why not set up and enter data into a
database such as Access and THEN convert to PDF.  Using a tool like my
OctoTools would present a scenario where a central server (or servers) will
take the data from users and create the completed PDF, store it, e-mail it,
web post it, or print it as required.  OctoTools takes the text, data, table
and even images dynamically and combines them with a designed form or
template (a forms design is part of the package) and automatically outputs
PDF and/or print out.  If you're shelling out $300-$400 per user or looking
to implement a big-buck Extent ion Server, you may save considerable cost as
well as time and make the operation much more palatable using a different
approach.  OctoTools runs around $3,000 per server w/maint (Gov't rate) with
unlimited access to the data from users.  No extra software is required by
the users save for their Database program (typically MS Office's Access) and
a PDF viewer such as the free and universally available Adobe Acrobat
reader.

 I am not sure if this will fit your needs exactly, but I would be very
 happy to discuss the technology and how it applies with you directly. 
 Please give me a call at 978 535-7676 (Boston, MA).  Quite a number of
 Municipal, State and Federal agencies are using OctoTools and even the
 smaller organizations justify its costs.  For additional info take a look
 at www.octotools.com or e-mail me, larry"at"jbmsystems"dot"com  .  Thanks
 for your time and I hope this can be of interest.

Larry T.

Larry, thanks for the info, but I don't make the decisions for our IT
department.  I just wanted to suggest they use a software product
that'll enable the file for saving so we don't have to buy Professional
for everyone.

"Frank" <frank062547@excite.com> wrote:

>Larry, thanks for the info, but I don't make the decisions for our IT
>department.  I just wanted to suggest they use a software product
>that'll enable the file for saving so we don't have to buy Professional
>for everyone.

Why are you buying Acrobat Professional when Acrobat Standard can do
it...?
----------------------------------------
Aandi Inston  quite@dial.pipex.com http://www.quite.com
Please support usenet! Post replies and follow-ups, don't e-mail them.

"Frank" <frank062547@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1113482372.832223.82080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
> I work for a company with about 1200 employees
> statewide.  Our Human Resources department is doing evaluations and
> other forms in PDF format, and our local administrators have to fill
> them out and can't save them.  We've been buying them Adobe Acrobat 7.0
> Professional just so they can save these forms.
>

IMO, you should only need Acrobat Professional to generate fillable forms.
There are several ways for users with only Acrobat Reader to save form data
for fillable PDF forms, e.g., FDF.

One way to work with FDF is to add a "submit" action to the PDF, which
action would send the FDF to a server-side process that would capture the
submitted FDF and return the FDF to the client browser as a file to be
saved.

If you wish to merge the FDF with a PDF, you could perform the merging with
Pdftk, available free from www.accesspdf.com.

The above approach requires only that you have one copy of Acrobat
Professional to modify your fillable PDFs to provide the requied "submit"
actions.

See http://segraves.tripod.com/index3.htm for an example of how server-side
processing of submittals from fillable PDF files can be done.
--
Bill Segraves

I can't say why they're buying Professional.  I'd questioned that
before.  Then I found that "Enabled" PDF file, and that really got me
to thinking.  I'll print the responses and send to our IT department,
and they'll probably accuse me of meddling <sigh>

thanks for all the input

"Frank" <frank062547@excite.com> wrote:

>I can't say why they're buying Professional.  I'd questioned that
>before.  Then I found that "Enabled" PDF file, and that really got me
>to thinking.  I'll print the responses and send to our IT department,
>and they'll probably accuse me of meddling 

They may well have a strategic reason to get Acrobat Professional
installed on lots of desktops. After all, it has many uses, while
enabled forms have only one.  Plans might include browser based
review, digital signatures, or just letting people create PDFs...
----------------------------------------
Aandi Inston  quite@dial.pipex.com http://www.quite.com
Please support usenet! Post replies and follow-ups, don't e-mail them.

"Frank" <frank062547@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1113482572.156977.215850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
> The form is a 1040-ES, which I downloaded for my own use.  When it
> opened it said it had been enabled so I could save it, and I thought
> "Dang!!  Why can't they do this at work?"  Based on Marco's reply, the
> end user can't save this form with the reader -- can they?
>

What happens when you try to save it from Reader? If you are able to save it
from Reader, ISTM the needed rights are present in the PDF.

Check the EULA for Reader to see if the next step is permissible.

Next, try using Pdftk to add to the 1040-ES a PDF to which you'd like to
extend the rights that the 1040-ES possesses. After adding the two files,
check to see if the rights are preserved, as well as extended to the added
PDF.

Happy experimenting!
--
Bill Segraves

Bill Segraves wrote:
> "Frank" <frank062547@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:1113482572.156977.215850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> <snip>
> 
>>The form is a 1040-ES, which I downloaded for my own use.  When it
>>opened it said it had been enabled so I could save it, and I thought
>>"Dang!!  Why can't they do this at work?"  Based on Marco's reply, the
>>end user can't save this form with the reader -- can they?
>>
> 
> 
> What happens when you try to save it from Reader? If you are able to save it
> from Reader, ISTM the needed rights are present in the PDF.

If the form has been "enabled", you will be able to save it with a 
recent Reader. The enabling rights are embedded in the PDF file. To my 
knowledge this is based on a public/private  key mechanism that allows 
Reader to establish the authenticity of the rights. Adobe (obviously) 
did not publish their private key.

> Check the EULA for Reader to see if the next step is permissible.
> 
> Next, try using Pdftk to add to the 1040-ES a PDF to which you'd like to
> extend the rights that the 1040-ES possesses. After adding the two files,
> check to see if the rights are preserved, as well as extended to the added
> PDF.
> 
> Happy experimenting!

I think you will soon find out that this sort of thing will utterly 
invalidate the enabling rights.

Marco

"Marco Kesseler" <find.me@access.for.all> wrote in message
news:425ee4fc$0$145$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
<snip>
>
> I think you will soon find out that this sort of thing will utterly
> invalidate the enabling rights.

I think not. I hadn't planned on trying to extend rights to which I am not
entitled. Hopefully, the OP will be content with your sage advice.

Fortunately, there are still "free" ways to merge PDF and FDF files, saving
the filled PDF files, e.g., Pdftk, available free from www.accesspdf.com.
--
Bill Segraves

Bill Segraves wrote:
> "Marco Kesseler" <find.me@access.for.all> wrote in message
> news:425ee4fc$0$145$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> <snip>
> 
>>I think you will soon find out that this sort of thing will utterly
>>invalidate the enabling rights.
> 
> 
> I think not. I hadn't planned on trying to extend rights to which I am not
> entitled.

I am not sure that I follow you. Using pdftk to concatenate an enabled 
file and an ordinary one WILL lead to an ordinary file, without any 
special enablings.

>Hopefully, the OP will be content with your sage advice.

The "OP"? (being dutch it is sometimes hard to follow all the delicacies 
in an Enlish sentence)

Marco

"Marco Kesseler" <find.me@access.for.all> wrote in message
news:425fe37c$0$97021$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> Bill Segraves wrote:
> > "Marco Kesseler" <find.me@access.for.all> wrote in message
> > news:425ee4fc$0$145$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> > <snip>
> >
> >>I think you will soon find out that this sort of thing will utterly
> >>invalidate the enabling rights.
> >
> >
> > I think not. I hadn't planned on trying to extend rights to which I am
not
> > entitled.
>
> I am not sure that I follow you. Using pdftk to concatenate an enabled
> file and an ordinary one WILL lead to an ordinary file, without any
> special enablings.
>

Thank you for the clarification. The context of the above statement, "I
think not ...", applied only to my own plans, not to those of the OP. Your
statement, "I think you will soon find ...", was not accurate, as I had no
intention of pursuing the issue, personally, any time in the near future.

The suggestions I made to the OP, based on an article at www.accesspdf.com,
were intended as guidance to allow the OP to find out for himself what you
have stated as fact.

> >Hopefully, the OP will be content with your sage advice.
>
> The "OP"? (being dutch it is sometimes hard to follow all the delicacies
> in an Enlish sentence)

No problem here. OP = Original Post/Poster. Google for "usenet acronym op"
to see for yourself.

Best wishes.
--
Bill Segraves

"Marco Kesseler" <find.me@access.for.all> wrote in message
news:425fe37c$0$97021$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
<snip>
> Using pdftk

or Acrobat

> to concatenate an enabled
> file and an ordinary one WILL lead to an ordinary file, without any
> special enablings.

Tested with Acrobat 3 and Reader 7.
--
Bill Segraves

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"Frank" <frank062547@excite.com> writes:

> Thanks Marco.  I work for a company with about 1200 employees
> statewide.  Our Human Resources department is doing evaluations and
> other forms in PDF format, and our local administrators have to fill
> them out and can't save them.  We've been buying them Adobe Acrobat 7.0
> Professional just so they can save these forms.

I'm no expert, but would http://www.amgraf.com/pages/eforms.html or
perhaps even http://www.pdfill.com/index.html work and be less
expensive?  I've not used either tool.

Bill
- -- 
Bill Harris                      http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
Facilitated Systems                              Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/                  phone: +1 425 337-5541
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