I'm trying to develop a simple, portable input system that uses
web-based editing of  form data and produces printable, formatted
output.

Adobe PDF forms look like a good solution.  Prior to the release of
Adobe Designer 6, making PDF forms was not a lot of fun, but the forms
could be pre-filled with the use of several open source tools (FDF
toolkit from Adobe, pdftk, etc.).  Designer 6 is much richer in its
ability to connect to XML data sources, etc., but so far I have not
been able to find a free or inexpensive way to have the new XML
Form-based PDF files have their data filled in with an XML or FDF-based
data source.

I cannot afford anything like the $30,000 price tag for Adobe Forms
Server (I am committed to using open source tools such as PHP wherever
possible to stay within my small school district IT budget).

Has anyone figured out if there is a way to successfully script a form
created by Adobe Designer in such a way that it can import data from an
arbitrary XML file URL?  There are hints on how to do this in the Adobe
XML documentation, but I have spent six or seven hours with no sucess.
I haven't even figured out how to debug the FormCalc or JavaScript in
these forms yet.

There are some suggestive script method names such as loadXML and
importData, but they do nothing when I try to execute them using
event-based scripts.  They either don't work (or don't work with
Acrobat Reader versions I have installed), or I don't have the precise
syntax necessary (and good luck finding it on Adobe's website!).

Or a way to downgrade XML forms to the old Acrobat PDF forms after they
are designed, so that I can fill them with data using FDF tools.  I
only have Acrobat 5 to save forms, and it crashes trying to save forms
created in Adobe Designer 6.

If this won't work, I will go back to manually creating HTML forms, and
merging data into FileMaker or some other system for output, and
wishing Adobe good luck in selling this product to anyone other than
large businesses and government organizations.
Peter Zingg
Technology Coordinator
Kentfield School District

pzingg wrote:
> Has anyone figured out if there is a way to successfully script a
form
> created by Adobe Designer in such a way that it can import data from
an
> arbitrary XML file URL?  There are hints on how to do this in the
Adobe
> XML documentation, but I have spent six or seven hours with no
sucess.
> I haven't even figured out how to debug the FormCalc or JavaScript in
> these forms yet.
>
Sorry, I don't know the answer to your questions, but I replied because
I asked about the same issues a few days ago and, of course, didn't
receive any answer. Then I tried on Planet PDF with a lot more success.
You might want to go at
http://forum.planetpdf.com
and look for the thread named "Forms facilities". It is only at the
beginning, I sure hope it will grow, and in a useful way. You may ask
your questions there or start another thread if you prefer.

Anyway, I imagine that, as a minimum, you would have to upgrade to
Acrobat / Reader 7. (That's not to say that this will solve your
problem, this is yet to be established.)

V. Simionescu

pzingg wrote:

> Designer 6 is much richer in its
> ability to connect to XML data sources, etc., but so far I have not
> been able to find a free or inexpensive way to have the new XML
> Form-based PDF files have their data filled in with an XML or
FDF-based
> data source.
>
On the other hand, I thought a little more and I'm not sure what you
want. Do you want to have custom XML, or would you be satisfied with
the data as XFDF (since you say "FDF-based data source") ? If so, then
I imagine you could do something based only on Acrobat 5, forget about
Designer 6 and other higher stuff. Create the form in Acrobat 5; keep
your data on the server as XFDF; then the client just opens the remote
XFDF file from a browser and it should open in Reader with the
pre-filled data. I guess, I'm not sure but it might work. Of course you
would have to create an additional HTML interface for listing the
available forms, plus some identification for each one; but I guess
this is pretty simple and you have to do it only once, then adapt it to
every form with minor changes.

Again, I'm not sure this actually works but it might be worth a try.
Hope I could be of any help.

V. Simionescu

Thanks for the tips.  I guess my problem with Acrobat 5 is that
creating form field definitions is so crude when compared to Designer
(or even FileMaker).  Maybe I should find a third-party tool
(suggestions?) for laying out Acobat forms.

Designer (XML) Forms advantages:
Precise control of location, fonts, etc.
Sophistticated validation, patterns

Designer Forms disadvantages:
No easy merge with XFDF (probably need Form Server)
Hardly any usable programming documentation (yet)
Requires Reader 6.02 or later on clients

pzingg wrote:
> Thanks for the tips.  I guess my problem with Acrobat 5 is that
> creating form field definitions is so crude when compared to Designer
> (or even FileMaker).  Maybe I should find a third-party tool
> (suggestions?) for laying out Acobat forms.
>
Sorry, no suggestions in this area. Personally I've always worked with
the Acrobat 5 Form tool and it was OK. But then, I have no idea how
easy it is in Designer or other tools.
Did you go to Planet PDF ? The same system, if I get it right, can be
done with Acrobat / Reader 7, and you get the Forms Designer (whatever
this means, but it is distinct from the Acrobat Form tool) in Acrobat
and support for custom XML. At least that's what they told me there.

Anyway, I'd be interested to know if you succeed in establishing the
on-line system I suggested. Which would be kind of like storing and
retrieving filled forms, except that it is not done on the local hard
disk but on the server. It should work, I guess.

What I think has happened is that from 6.0 onwards, Adobe has now two
completely separate form systems in the same PDF format.  I was in
Borders the other day perusing the PDF 1.6 specification (over 1000
pages long).  In any given PDF you can detect whether it has forms
using AcroForms (old style/FDF, laid out with Acrobat) or XFA (new
style/XML, laid out with Designer) by looking for an XFA object using
AcroJS.

Adobe bundles Designer in Acrobat Pro 7 as a not-so-subtle way to get
people hooked on the new forms system, and sooner or later they are
going to have to bite the bullet (or their wallets) to get the pricey
Forms and Policy servers to really use these new XFA forms.

I'm sure some reverse engineer will find a way to do all the XML data
merging unless Adobe is really serious about locking down their
technology with proprietary tools.

I also took a look at using Macromedia Flash MX 2004 as a system.  They
support connecting to XML data sources and using HTTP POST to update
server data.  Unfortunately, they have not solved the problem of
printing Flash forms very well, and compared to the elegance of Adobe
Designer, you have to write reams of backend ActionScript to get the
data in and out.  Pity.

FileMaker Advanced Server 7 is another alternative that integrates data
from external sources and has a web interface as well as formatted
printing.  Entry price is on the order of $2,000.

pzingg wrote:
>
> I'm sure some reverse engineer will find a way to do all the XML data
> merging unless Adobe is really serious about locking down their
> technology with proprietary tools.
>
I'm not sure it would be worth it.
What do you think about the mixed HTML / Adobe approach I suggested ?
Do you find it useful ? If not, what would be the downsides ?