I have a huge pdf file, @ http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf

Size is over 27 MB.

I need to shrink it.

Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?

I tried CVista pdfCompressor, it shrinks the  28,523,179 byte file to
27,100,963 byte file.

A less than 4% shrinking.

I downloaded the free PDF Compressor from www.nicepdf.com but the
compressor tells me that my huge pdf file has a wrong version of some
sort.

I know there's one from Apago, but it runs only on OS-X, not Windows.

So in short, is there any shrinker for that huge file?

Please help.

Thanks !

In article <c6f57187-2b67-43b3-88d8-8488c43e8dee@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
pg  <penang@catholic.org> wrote:
>I have a huge pdf file, @ http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
>Size is over 27 MB.
>
>I need to shrink it.
>
>Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?
>
>I tried CVista pdfCompressor, it shrinks the  28,523,179 byte file to
>27,100,963 byte file.
>
>A less than 4% shrinking.
>
>I downloaded the free PDF Compressor from www.nicepdf.com but the
>compressor tells me that my huge pdf file has a wrong version of some
>sort.
>
>I know there's one from Apago, but it runs only on OS-X, not Windows.
>
>So in short, is there any shrinker for that huge file?

It depends on the content to a great degree. If the bulk is due to the
presence of huge bitmaps, then a tighter compression algorithm may reduce
the bulk but don't expect miraculous results. Unfortunately the biggest
gains are probably to be made using Adobe Acrobat (payware), which can 
encode the PDF to a higher version that allows more sophisticated 
compression algorithms.

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:16:00 -0800 (PST), pg <penang@catholic.org>
wrote:

>I have a huge pdf file, @ http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
>Size is over 27 MB.
>
>I need to shrink it.
>
>Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?
>
>I tried CVista pdfCompressor, it shrinks the  28,523,179 byte file to
>27,100,963 byte file.
>
>A less than 4% shrinking.
>
>I downloaded the free PDF Compressor from www.nicepdf.com but the
>compressor tells me that my huge pdf file has a wrong version of some
>sort.
>
>I know there's one from Apago, but it runs only on OS-X, not Windows.
>
>So in short, is there any shrinker for that huge file?
>
>Please help.
>
>Thanks !


Space is cheap

Dave

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:23:02 +0200, Dave <d@d.durbs> wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:16:00 -0800 (PST), pg <penang@catholic.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I have a huge pdf file, @ http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>>
>> Size is over 27 MB.
>>
>> I need to shrink it.
>>
>> Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?
>>
>> I tried CVista pdfCompressor, it shrinks the  28,523,179 byte file to
>> 27,100,963 byte file.
>>
>> A less than 4% shrinking.
>>
>> I downloaded the free PDF Compressor from www.nicepdf.com but the
>> compressor tells me that my huge pdf file has a wrong version of some
>> sort.
>>
>> I know there's one from Apago, but it runs only on OS-X, not Windows.
>>
>> So in short, is there any shrinker for that huge file?
>>
>> Please help.
>>
>> Thanks !
>
>
> Space is cheap

NASA doesn't think so.

Tony

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:38:18 +0000, "Anthony R. Gold"
<not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:23:02 +0200, Dave <d@d.durbs> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:16:00 -0800 (PST), pg <penang@catholic.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a huge pdf file, @ http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>>>
>>> Size is over 27 MB.
>>>
>>> I need to shrink it.
>>>
>>> Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?
>>>
>>> I tried CVista pdfCompressor, it shrinks the  28,523,179 byte file to
>>> 27,100,963 byte file.
>>>
>>> A less than 4% shrinking.
>>>
>>> I downloaded the free PDF Compressor from www.nicepdf.com but the
>>> compressor tells me that my huge pdf file has a wrong version of some
>>> sort.
>>>
>>> I know there's one from Apago, but it runs only on OS-X, not Windows.
>>>
>>> So in short, is there any shrinker for that huge file?
>>>
>>> Please help.
>>>
>>> Thanks !
>>
>>
>> Space is cheap
>
>NASA doesn't think so.
>
>Tony

LOL.. nor does the income tax payer think so

Dave

On 20 feb, 18:16, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
> I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
> Size is over 27 MB.
>
> So in short, is there any shrinker for that huge file?

Try a virtual PDF printer like PDFcreator (that's what I use) to
create a new PDF from the original
:
http://www.pdfforge.org/products/pdfcreator

in the process you can change the compression, resolution etcetera for
a smaller filesize.

pg wrote:
> I have a huge pdf file, @ http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
> 
> Size is over 27 MB.

That's not huge. Mid-sized perhaps.

> I need to shrink it.
> 
> Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?

If you have access to the source of the document, regenerate it with 
better software and/or tighter controls on image size.

///Peter

Followup reset to c.t.pdf

Peter Flynn wrote:
> pg wrote:
>> I have a huge pdf file, @ http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>>
>> Size is over 27 MB.
> 
> That's not huge. Mid-sized perhaps.
> 
>> I need to shrink it.
>>
>> Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?
> 
> If you have access to the source of the document, regenerate it with 
> better software and/or tighter controls on image size.

I've had a look at the file and it's all CJK text, so my (uneducated) 
guess is that it's your fonts being embedded. No easy way round this 
unless you have alternative fonts.

///Peter

In article 
<c6f57187-2b67-43b3-88d8-8488c43e8dee@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
 pg  <penang@catholic.org> wrote:
>I have a huge pdf file, @ http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
>Size is over 27 MB.
>
>>I need to shrink it.

Well no wonder. It's stored as near print quality, and 100% pictures.  If it 
could be redone in regular type, it would be under 500k. I don't know 
anything about Asian typefaces, but if the bloke who created it would save 
it as an Adobe PDF or even EPS it would be much, much smaller.

I got it down to 10 MB using Acrobat.  Didn't try to make it any smaller.

Whoa! I got it down to less than 1 MB.
Ask and I will put it somewhere for you to download.

*slaps your hand*  Don't do that again. :)

On Feb 21, 6:49 am, "pico" <pico.pico.pico> wrote:
> In article
> <c6f57187-2b67-43b3-88d8-8488c43e8...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>  pg  <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>
> >I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
> >Size is over 27 MB.
>
> >>I need to shrink it.
>
> Well no wonder. It's stored as near print quality, and 100% pictures.  If it
> could be redone in regular type, it would be under 500k. I don't know
> anything about Asian typefaces, but if the bloke who created it would save
> it as an Adobe PDF or even EPS it would be much, much smaller.
>
> I got it down to 10 MB using Acrobat.  Didn't try to make it any smaller.



May I have a looksee on the 10MB file? Just want to use it for a head-
to-head comparison.

Thanks !!

On Feb 21, 5:06 am, Peter Flynn <peter.n...@m.silmaril.ie> wrote:
> pg wrote:
> > I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
> > Size is over 27 MB.
>
> That's not huge. Mid-sized perhaps.
>
> > I need to shrink it.
>
> > Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?
>
> If you have access to the source of the document, regenerate it with
> better software and/or tighter controls on image size.
>
> ///Peter
>
> Followup reset to c.t.pdf

Don't have the source. Somebody else made it. Trying to shrink it to a
manageable size so more people could download it.

Many thanks for the tips, tho !

On Feb 21, 3:48 am, rodney.use...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 20 feb, 18:16, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>
> > I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
> > Size is over 27 MB.
>
> > So in short, is there any shrinker for that huge file?
>
> Try a virtual PDF printer like PDFcreator (that's what I use) to
> create a new PDF from the original
> :http://www.pdfforge.org/products/pdfcreator
>
> in the process you can change the compression, resolution etcetera for
> a smaller filesize.

Many thanks for the link ! Will try it out !

Thanks again !!

On Feb 21, 2:23 am, Dave <d...@d.durbs> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:16:00 -0800 (PST), pg <pen...@catholic.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
> >Size is over 27 MB.
>
> >I need to shrink it.
>
> >Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?
>
> >I tried CVista pdfCompressor, it shrinks the  28,523,179 byte file to
> >27,100,963 byte file.
>
> >A less than 4% shrinking.
>
> >I downloaded the free PDF Compressor fromwww.nicepdf.combut the
> >compressor tells me that my huge pdf file has a wrong version of some
> >sort.
>
> >I know there's one from Apago, but it runs only on OS-X, not Windows.
>
> >So in short, is there any shrinker for that huge file?
>
> >Please help.
>
> >Thanks !
>
> Space is cheap
>
> Dave


Not bandwidth. As I'm hosting it on my site, it's costing me an arm
and a leg.

On Feb 21, 1:38 am, retsu...@xinap.moc (Mike S.) wrote:
> In article <c6f57187-2b67-43b3-88d8-8488c43e8...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> pg  <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
> >I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
> >Size is over 27 MB.
>
> >I need to shrink it.
>
> >Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?
>
> >I tried CVista pdfCompressor, it shrinks the  28,523,179 byte file to
> >27,100,963 byte file.
>
> >A less than 4% shrinking.
>
> >I downloaded the free PDF Compressor fromwww.nicepdf.combut the
> >compressor tells me that my huge pdf file has a wrong version of some
> >sort.
>
> >I know there's one from Apago, but it runs only on OS-X, not Windows.
>
> >So in short, is there any shrinker for that huge file?
>
> It depends on the content to a great degree. If the bulk is due to the
> presence of huge bitmaps, then a tighter compression algorithm may reduce
> the bulk but don't expect miraculous results. Unfortunately the biggest
> gains are probably to be made using Adobe Acrobat (payware), which can
> encode the PDF to a higher version that allows more sophisticated
> compression algorithms.

Put all my $$$ to host the file already, can't find any spare change
for Adobe Acrobat.

Perhaps someone here got the Adobe Acrobat, wanna help out, please?

Thank you !

On Feb 21, 6:49 am, "pico" <pico.pico.pico> wrote:
> In article
> <c6f57187-2b67-43b3-88d8-8488c43e8...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>  pg  <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>
> >I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
> >Size is over 27 MB.
>
> >>I need to shrink it.
>
> Well no wonder. It's stored as near print quality, and 100% pictures.  If it
> could be redone in regular type, it would be under 500k. I don't know
> anything about Asian typefaces, but if the bloke who created it would save
> it as an Adobe PDF or even EPS it would be much, much smaller.
>
> I got it down to 10 MB using Acrobat.  Didn't try to make it any smaller.

It's a flyer of sort, so as long as the characters are legible, it
doesn't matter much for the graphics.

If you got the chance, could you try to make squeeze it to the
smallest size possible? I wonder how _that_ would look like.

Thanks in advance !

On Feb 21, 1:16 am, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
> I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf


Whoa !

Just a offtopic annoucement !

The above file is no more. Locked up by the Malaysian government !!

Apparently that file carries a list of embarrassing moments of the
Malaysian government and obviously the Malaysian government doesn't
want anyone to know about it.

Net censorship of the worst kind !

"pg" <penang@catholic.org> wrote in message 
news:2148aea5-702d-4923-b78b-61085e6fc73e@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 21, 1:16 am, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>> I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
>
> Whoa !
>
> Just a offtopic annoucement !
>
> The above file is no more. Locked up by the Malaysian government !!
>
> Apparently that file carries a list of embarrassing moments of the
> Malaysian government and obviously the Malaysian government doesn't
> want anyone to know about it.
>
> Net censorship of the worst kind !

Well be careful what you post
pissing off the ISLAMIC admin can have serious consequences
GOD BLESS THE USA
(and our buddies in UK that have not agreed to their own dhimmification)
go Pat

http://youtube.com/user/patcondell

"Peter Flynn" <peter.nosp@m.silmaril.ie> wrote in message 
news:623j2pF21hcfsU1@mid.individual.net...
> pg wrote:
>> I have a huge pdf file, @ http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>>
>> Size is over 27 MB.
>
> That's not huge. Mid-sized perhaps.
>
>> I need to shrink it.
>>
>> Anyone know any pdf shrinker that can do the trick?
>
> If you have access to the source of the document, regenerate it with 
> better software and/or tighter controls on image size.

If he is going to have it printed for professional purposes, it is unlikely 
to shrink much. I did an inventory of it and it's speced to be an Advert to 
print on a Japanese glossy stock... high end.

But we don't know what he's really going to do with it.

"KatWoman" <spamfree@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:jEjvj.91262$rc2.5309@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
> "pg" <penang@catholic.org> wrote in message 
> news:2148aea5-702d-4923-b78b-61085e6fc73e@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 21, 1:16 am, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>>> I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf

>> Apparently that file carries a list of embarrassing moments of the
>> Malaysian government and obviously the Malaysian government doesn't
>> want anyone to know about it.
>>
>> Net censorship of the worst kind !
>
> Well be careful what you post
> pissing off the ISLAMIC admin can have serious consequences
> GOD BLESS THE USA
> (and our buddies in UK that have not agreed to their own dhimmification)
> go Pat

I saved a copy. I can RIP it into modest size web pages and serve them if 
the author needs that.  It would be helpful to read what it says, first. Our 
Chinese interpreter is out with (ironically) the flu. Maybe it is Japanese. 
I wouldn't know.

pico wrote:
> "KatWoman" <spamfree@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:jEjvj.91262$rc2.5309@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> "pg" <penang@catholic.org> wrote in message 
>> news:2148aea5-702d-4923-b78b-61085e6fc73e@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Feb 21, 1:16 am, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>>>> I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
> 
>>> Apparently that file carries a list of embarrassing moments of the
>>> Malaysian government and obviously the Malaysian government doesn't
>>> want anyone to know about it.
>>>
>>> Net censorship of the worst kind !
>> Well be careful what you post
>> pissing off the ISLAMIC admin can have serious consequences
>> GOD BLESS THE USA
>> (and our buddies in UK that have not agreed to their own dhimmification)
>> go Pat
> 
> I saved a copy. I can RIP it into modest size web pages and serve them if 
> the author needs that.  It would be helpful to read what it says, first. Our 
> Chinese interpreter is out with (ironically) the flu. Maybe it is Japanese. 
> I wouldn't know.
> 

Instead of serving it yourself, consider submitting the doc to wikileaks 
<http://wikileaks.be/wiki/Wikileaks>.  It's a project dedicated to 
storing and serving up documents from whistle-blowers around the world.

It was recently written up here 
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/21/wikileaks_bulletproof_hosting/> 
  after a California judge tried to shut it down.  "Try," in that it's 
been replicated outside Cali (& US) jurisdiction.

Here's to Information, may it always flow freely.

-Craig

"Craig" <netburgher@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message 
news:uvkvj.12030$Ch6.2525@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
> pico wrote:
>> "KatWoman" <spamfree@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
>> news:jEjvj.91262$rc2.5309@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>> "pg" <penang@catholic.org> wrote in message 
>>> news:2148aea5-702d-4923-b78b-61085e6fc73e@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Feb 21, 1:16 am, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>>>>> I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>>
>>>> Apparently that file carries a list of embarrassing moments of the
>>>> Malaysian government and obviously the Malaysian government doesn't
>>>> want anyone to know about it.
>>>>
>>>> Net censorship of the worst kind !
>>> Well be careful what you post
>>> pissing off the ISLAMIC admin can have serious consequences
>>> GOD BLESS THE USA
>>> (and our buddies in UK that have not agreed to their own dhimmification)
>>> go Pat
>>
>> I saved a copy. I can RIP it into modest size web pages and serve them if 
>> the author needs that.  It would be helpful to read what it says, first. 
>> Our Chinese interpreter is out with (ironically) the flu. Maybe it is 
>> Japanese. I wouldn't know.
>>
>
> Instead of serving it yourself, consider submitting the doc to wikileaks 
> <http://wikileaks.be/wiki/Wikileaks>.  It's a project dedicated to storing 
> and serving up documents from whistle-blowers around the world.
>
> It was recently written up here 
> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/21/wikileaks_bulletproof_hosting/> 
> after a California judge tried to shut it down.  "Try," in that it's been 
> replicated outside Cali (& US) jurisdiction.
>
> Here's to Information, may it always flow freely.
>
> -Craig

thanks for that info
KEEP ON ROCKIN IN A FREE WORLD...................

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:19:40 -0800 (PST), pg <penang@catholic.org> wrote:

>Not bandwidth. As I'm hosting it on my site, it's costing me an arm
>and a leg.

Bandwidth is cheap. For example, for $4.95 you get unlimited bandwidth:

http://www.ixwebhosting.com/index.php/v2/pages.planBusinessPlus

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Feb 22, 2:44 am, "KatWoman" <spamf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "pg" <pen...@catholic.org> wrote in message
>
> news:2148aea5-702d-4923-b78b-61085e6fc73e@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 21, 1:16 am, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
> >> I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
>
> > Whoa !
>
> > Just a offtopic annoucement !
>
> > The above file is no more. Locked up by the Malaysian government !!
>
> > Apparently that file carries a list of embarrassing moments of the
> > Malaysian government and obviously the Malaysian government doesn't
> > want anyone to know about it.
>
> > Net censorship of the worst kind !
>
> Well be careful what you post
> pissing off the ISLAMIC admin can have serious consequences
> GOD BLESS THE USA
> (and our buddies in UK that have not agreed to their own dhimmification)
> go Pat
>
> http://youtube.com/user/patcondell



About the file, I managed to find another copy of it, and right now
I've put it on http://bn106.4shared.com

That "4shared" server is located in the USA, so let them ISLAMIC try
to lock it up !

On Feb 22, 3:07 am, "pico" <pico.pico.pico> wrote:
> "KatWoman" <spamf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:jEjvj.91262$rc2.5309@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "pg" <pen...@catholic.org> wrote in message
> >news:2148aea5-702d-4923-b78b-61085e6fc73e@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Feb 21, 1:16 am, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
> >>> I have a huge pdf file, @http://penangA1.com/Malaysia/bn106.pdf
> >> Apparently that file carries a list of embarrassing moments of the
> >> Malaysian government and obviously the Malaysian government doesn't
> >> want anyone to know about it.
>
> >> Net censorship of the worst kind !
>
> > Well be careful what you post
> > pissing off the ISLAMIC admin can have serious consequences
> > GOD BLESS THE USA
> > (and our buddies in UK that have not agreed to their own dhimmification)
> > go Pat
>
> I saved a copy. I can RIP it into modest size web pages and serve them if
> the author needs that.  It would be helpful to read what it says, first. Our
> Chinese interpreter is out with (ironically) the flu. Maybe it is Japanese.
> I wouldn't know.


It's in Chinese. It has a listing of 106 really embarrassing things
related to the Malaysian government.

The reason they COULD lock up that file on my penangA1.com domain is
because my domain is hosted by a company with servers located in a
datacenter run by Telekom Malaysia, a Malaysian government company.

I had to trace back the thing to find out that ugly truth. Had I known
that the servers were located inside Malaysia, I would have chosen
other hosting companies !!

Sigh !

On Feb 22, 9:22 am, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:19:40 -0800 (PST), pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
> >Not bandwidth. As I'm hosting it on my site, it's costing me an arm
> >and a leg.
>
> Bandwidth is cheap. For example, for $4.95 you get unlimited bandwidth:
>
> http://www.ixwebhosting.com/index.php/v2/pages.planBusinessPlus
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).



Thanks for pointing this out !!!!

On Feb 22, 9:22 am, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:19:40 -0800 (PST), pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
> >Not bandwidth. As I'm hosting it on my site, it's costing me an arm
> >and a leg.
>
> Bandwidth is cheap. For example, for $4.95 you get unlimited bandwidth:
>
> http://www.ixwebhosting.com/index.php/v2/pages.planBusinessPlus
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).


If you can help out, would you mind shrink that huge PDF to less than
10MB so I can attach it with the emails I send to people.

Many webmail providers have a limit of 10MB or smaller on email
attachment.

I thank you in advance !!

You can send me the shrunk pdf to penang1 at hotmail dot com

Thanks again !!

On Fri 22 Feb 2008 11:38:19, pg <penang@catholic.org> wrote:
> 
> About the file, I managed to find another copy of it, and right now
> I've put it on http://bn106.4shared.com
> 

Very nice download speed.  Bit cryptic guessing the right buttons.

The pages looks as if they would be suitable for a GIF or PNG.

Not sure what to use to extract the images from this PDF.

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:48:07 -0800 (PST), pg <penang@catholic.org> wrote:

>On Feb 22, 9:22 am, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:19:40 -0800 (PST), pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>> >Not bandwidth. As I'm hosting it on my site, it's costing me an arm
>> >and a leg.
>>
>> Bandwidth is cheap. For example, for $4.95 you get unlimited bandwidth:
>>
>> http://www.ixwebhosting.com/index.php/v2/pages.planBusinessPlus

>If you can help out, would you mind shrink that huge PDF to less than
>10MB so I can attach it with the emails I send to people.

While I do have the full Acrobat 8 Pro, by the time I found this thread the
file had been removed from your host. So unless someone gets me the file, I
can't help. For what I put on the web (and the hosting service I noted
above is one of the ones I use, but not for donwiss.com) I use Advanced ->
PDF Optimizer. Acrobat is a little confusing. There are several places
where optimizing appears on the menu.

>Many webmail providers have a limit of 10MB or smaller on email
>attachment.

As far as I know all e-mail systems limit attachments to 25 MB at 7 bits,
or less. A PDF is 8 bits. So even on the best e-mail systems the limit
becomes around 20 MB.

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:38:19 -0800 (PST), pg <penang@catholic.org> wrote:

>About the file, I managed to find another copy of it, and right now
>I've put it on http://bn106.4shared.com

I find this version to be 12.2 MB. I opened it in Acrobat 8.1 Pro. After
Advanced optimization it came to 10.9 MB. There are many settings. I can
reduce the resolution, but it might become hard to read. I next tried
Document -> Reduce File Size. Some of the characters are a little fuzzy,
though probably still readable. It now is slightly bigger!? Next there is
Document -> Optimize Scanned PDF. There are a lot of settings. I'll start
with it in the middle. That made a big change. The characters are darker.
And the size is 1 MB. I'll e-mail it to you.

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

"Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message 
news:c3aur3pt1btpkfkashabeofg93kq5h8qvr@4ax.com...

> While I do have the full Acrobat 8 Pro, by the time I found this thread 
> the
> file had been removed from your host.

I have it and am going to apply Adobe's translation to it.

In the meantime, I got it down to 10 MB.

BFD, eh?

On Feb 23, 4:00 am, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:48:07 -0800 (PST), pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
> >On Feb 22, 9:22 am, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:19:40 -0800 (PST), pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
> >> >Not bandwidth. As I'm hosting it on my site, it's costing me an arm
> >> >and a leg.
>
> >> Bandwidth is cheap. For example, for $4.95 you get unlimited bandwidth:
>
> >>http://www.ixwebhosting.com/index.php/v2/pages.planBusinessPlus
> >If you can help out, would you mind shrink that huge PDF to less than
> >10MB so I can attach it with the emails I send to people.
>
> While I do have the full Acrobat 8 Pro, by the time I found this thread the
> file had been removed from your host. So unless someone gets me the file, I
> can't help. For what I put on the web (and the hosting service I noted
> above is one of the ones I use, but not for donwiss.com) I use Advanced ->
> PDF Optimizer. Acrobat is a little confusing. There are several places
> where optimizing appears on the menu.
>
> >Many webmail providers have a limit of 10MB or smaller on email
> >attachment.
>
> As far as I know all e-mail systems limit attachments to 25 MB at 7 bits,
> or less. A PDF is 8 bits. So even on the best e-mail systems the limit
> becomes around 20 MB.
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Many thanks for shrinking that file to 1.1 MB !!

On behalf of many, many people from Malaysia, I salute you !!!

And I've uploaded that 1.1 MB file onto http://bn106.4shared.com

Now more people can download it. Bandwidth is still quite a problem in
Malaysia, one way or another.

And a big Thank You to all for your support !!

ROCK ON, FREEDOM !!!

"Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message 
news:0r8sr315sgr8mlqi0o11kgmid2dcrhf5d6@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:19:40 -0800 (PST), pg <penang@catholic.org> wrote:
>
>>Not bandwidth. As I'm hosting it on my site, it's costing me an arm
>>and a leg.
>
> Bandwidth is cheap. For example, for $4.95 you get unlimited bandwidth:
>
> http://www.ixwebhosting.com/index.php/v2/pages.planBusinessPlus
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).


Don I clicked your link thinking it would be a photography page

you have lot of nutritional healing links a surprise!

One of my good friends has MS and I forwarded your page

she has abandoned the traditional medicines
they don't cure and had bad side effects (avonex, tysabri)
so far she manages (progressive MS) with diet and vitamins and physical 
therapy
recently she tried stem cell treatments with good results (2 so far and more 
to come)
and she has got new walking aid that delivers a shock to the muscle and 
prevents foot drop
it is very impressive

one thing I noticed was a link to low fat diet for MS which many 
nutritionists recommend
this is not good for MS patients
and my friend had very bad results with it as well
the nerve sheath needs oils and fats (good ones) in the diet to heal

On Sat 23 Feb 2008 03:57:44, pg <penang@catholic.org> wrote:

> On Feb 23, 4:00 am, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
>> [...]
> 
> Many thanks for shrinking that file to 1.1 MB !!
> 
> On behalf of many, many people from Malaysia, I salute you !!!
> 
> And I've uploaded that 1.1 MB file onto http://bn106.4shared.com
> 
> Now more people can download it. Bandwidth is still quite a problem in
> Malaysia, one way or another.
> 
> And a big Thank You to all for your support !!
> 
> ROCK ON, FREEDOM !!!


Can you give us a basic summary in English of what it says.

On Feb 24, 8:51 am, Franklin <no_u...@www.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat 23 Feb 2008 03:57:44, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 23, 4:00 am, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
> >> [...]
>
> > Many thanks for shrinking that file to 1.1 MB !!
>
> > On behalf of many, many people from Malaysia, I salute you !!!
>
> > And I've uploaded that 1.1 MB file ontohttp://bn106.4shared.com
>
> > Now more people can download it. Bandwidth is still quite a problem in
> > Malaysia, one way or another.
>
> > And a big Thank You to all for your support !!
>
> > ROCK ON, FREEDOM !!!
>
> Can you give us a basic summary in English of what it says.


Since it has 106 items, I can't list them all here. But I'll pick a
few examples ...

In 1987, the Malaysian government rounded up all the people who dare
to speak up against the government, and detained them for years and
years, without trial. The operation was named as "Operation Lalang".
This is a blatant violation of human rights.

In 1999, the Chinese community put out a list of requests, in the hope
that the Malaysian society can have a more leveled playing field for
all people. The government responded by accusing those who signed the
request as "COMMUNIST TERRORISTS".

In year 2001, the government ordered the closure of a Chinese primary
school, without any reason. Forcing the students who study there to
another school situated quite far away. The Chinese community objected
to it, but the government deployed armed police to chase away all the
children and their parents from that school. BTW, that Chinese school
is NOT owned by the government.

The local universities in Malaysia have a policy of limiting the
enrollment of ethnic Chinese students, even when the Chinese students
have scored much higher in all the examinations. The only reason for
the policy is that they want to reserve the slots for the Malays -- of
the majority Muslim population. Unlike America where you have more
university slots than students, in Malaysia, for every 100 eligible
students, there are only 80 slots. This means that the more qualified
Chinese students are shut out of university education, while the much
lower echelon's Malays students get to study. This is yet another
blatant violation of human rights.

In year 2005, the state of Selangor sent a delegation abroad, in the
name of "research". That trip cost the government a lot of money,
millions ! And it was later revealed that part of the delegation's
"research itineraries" included "belly dancing" and other vice
activities.

While the country is poor, with many citizens having no roof over
their head, the government spent 40MILLIONS to build 10 resort houses
for top civil servants. That 40MILLION, if applied in building
ordinary housing for the people, is equivalent to at least 400 houses,
or 2000 apartments !

The above is but a small portion of the 106 items mentioned in the
bn106.pdf file. The Malaysian government has done a lot of terrible
things, and the things I translated are of the "milder" kind. There
are more heinous crimes the Malaysian government has perpetrated.

The file listed 106 incidents done by the Malaysian government, no
added MSG at all. And yet, the government of Malaysia is afraid of the
world know of their dirty laundry. In this aspect alone, the Malaysian
government is no better than the Myanmar or the Chinese regime.

The old adage of "People Who Live In Glass Houses Should Not Throw
Stones" should be applied to the Malaysian government. They do not
want to be treated badly, but yet, they are treating other people
badly.

If they don't want their dirty little secrets to be known to the
world, then they shouldn't have done so many terrible things to their
own citizens.

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:26:13 -0800 (PST), pg wrote:

> Operation Lalang

CicakFecesWare
-- 
See Brenda's UniWorldWare
http://tinyurl.com/nm2yt

On Sun 24 Feb 2008 08:26:13, pg <penang@catholic.org> wrote:

> On Feb 24, 8:51 am, Franklin <no_u...@www.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat 23 Feb 2008 03:57:44, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On Feb 23, 4:00 am, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
>> >> [...]
>>
>> > Many thanks for shrinking that file to 1.1 MB !!
>>
>> > On behalf of many, many people from Malaysia, I salute you !!!
>>
>> > And I've uploaded that 1.1 MB file ontohttp://bn106.4shared.com
>>
>> > Now more people can download it. Bandwidth is still quite a
>> > problem in Malaysia, one way or another.
>>
>> > And a big Thank You to all for your support !!
>>
>> > ROCK ON, FREEDOM !!!
>>
>> Can you give us a basic summary in English of what it says.
> 
> 
> Since it has 106 items, I can't list them all here. But I'll pick a
> few examples ...
> 
> In 1987, the Malaysian government rounded up all the people who
> dare to speak up against the government, and detained them for
> years and years, without trial. The operation was named as
> "Operation Lalang". This is a blatant violation of human rights.
> 
> In 1999, the Chinese community put out a list of requests, in the
> hope that the Malaysian society can have a more leveled playing
> field for all people. The government responded by accusing those
> who signed the request as "COMMUNIST TERRORISTS".
> 
> In year 2001, the government ordered the closure of a Chinese
> primary school, without any reason. Forcing the students who study
> there to another school situated quite far away. The Chinese
> community objected to it, but the government deployed armed police
> to chase away all the children and their parents from that school.
> BTW, that Chinese school is NOT owned by the government.
> 
> The local universities in Malaysia have a policy of limiting the
> enrollment of ethnic Chinese students, even when the Chinese
> students have scored much higher in all the examinations. The only
> reason for the policy is that they want to reserve the slots for
> the Malays -- of the majority Muslim population. Unlike America
> where you have more university slots than students, in Malaysia,
> for every 100 eligible students, there are only 80 slots. This
> means that the more qualified Chinese students are shut out of
> university education, while the much lower echelon's Malays
> students get to study. This is yet another blatant violation of
> human rights. 
> 
> In year 2005, the state of Selangor sent a delegation abroad, in
> the name of "research". That trip cost the government a lot of
> money, millions ! And it was later revealed that part of the
> delegation's "research itineraries" included "belly dancing" and
> other vice activities.
> 
> While the country is poor, with many citizens having no roof over
> their head, the government spent 40MILLIONS to build 10 resort
> houses for top civil servants. That 40MILLION, if applied in
> building ordinary housing for the people, is equivalent to at least
> 400 houses, or 2000 apartments !
> 
> The above is but a small portion of the 106 items mentioned in the
> bn106.pdf file. The Malaysian government has done a lot of terrible
> things, and the things I translated are of the "milder" kind. There
> are more heinous crimes the Malaysian government has perpetrated.
> 
> The file listed 106 incidents done by the Malaysian government, no
> added MSG at all. And yet, the government of Malaysia is afraid of
> the world know of their dirty laundry. In this aspect alone, the
> Malaysian government is no better than the Myanmar or the Chinese
> regime. 
> 
> The old adage of "People Who Live In Glass Houses Should Not Throw
> Stones" should be applied to the Malaysian government. They do not
> want to be treated badly, but yet, they are treating other people
> badly.
> 
> If they don't want their dirty little secrets to be known to the
> world, then they shouldn't have done so many terrible things to
> their own citizens.
> 


The bumiputra policy favoring the frequently idle Malays is unjust 
but it may be the price one has to pay to avoid race riots again.

Mahathir may be corrupt and have a very loud unsmiling mouth but he 
has brought a lot of prosperity to Malaysia.

I hope you mentioned Anwar Ibrahim.

On Feb 25, 4:20 am, Franklin <no_u...@www.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun 24 Feb 2008 08:26:13, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 24, 8:51 am, Franklin <no_u...@www.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Sat 23 Feb 2008 03:57:44, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>
> >> > On Feb 23, 4:00 am, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
> >> >> [...]
>
> >> > Many thanks for shrinking that file to 1.1 MB !!
>
> >> > On behalf of many, many people from Malaysia, I salute you !!!
>
> >> > And I've uploaded that 1.1 MB file ontohttp://bn106.4shared.com
>
> >> > Now more people can download it. Bandwidth is still quite a
> >> > problem in Malaysia, one way or another.
>
> >> > And a big Thank You to all for your support !!
>
> >> > ROCK ON, FREEDOM !!!
>
> >> Can you give us a basic summary in English of what it says.
>
> > Since it has 106 items, I can't list them all here. But I'll pick a
> > few examples ...
>
> > In 1987, the Malaysian government rounded up all the people who
> > dare to speak up against the government, and detained them for
> > years and years, without trial. The operation was named as
> > "Operation Lalang". This is a blatant violation of human rights.
>
> > In 1999, the Chinese community put out a list of requests, in the
> > hope that the Malaysian society can have a more leveled playing
> > field for all people. The government responded by accusing those
> > who signed the request as "COMMUNIST TERRORISTS".
>
> > In year 2001, the government ordered the closure of a Chinese
> > primary school, without any reason. Forcing the students who study
> > there to another school situated quite far away. The Chinese
> > community objected to it, but the government deployed armed police
> > to chase away all the children and their parents from that school.
> > BTW, that Chinese school is NOT owned by the government.
>
> > The local universities in Malaysia have a policy of limiting the
> > enrollment of ethnic Chinese students, even when the Chinese
> > students have scored much higher in all the examinations. The only
> > reason for the policy is that they want to reserve the slots for
> > the Malays -- of the majority Muslim population. Unlike America
> > where you have more university slots than students, in Malaysia,
> > for every 100 eligible students, there are only 80 slots. This
> > means that the more qualified Chinese students are shut out of
> > university education, while the much lower echelon's Malays
> > students get to study. This is yet another blatant violation of
> > human rights.
>
> > In year 2005, the state of Selangor sent a delegation abroad, in
> > the name of "research". That trip cost the government a lot of
> > money, millions ! And it was later revealed that part of the
> > delegation's "research itineraries" included "belly dancing" and
> > other vice activities.
>
> > While the country is poor, with many citizens having no roof over
> > their head, the government spent 40MILLIONS to build 10 resort
> > houses for top civil servants. That 40MILLION, if applied in
> > building ordinary housing for the people, is equivalent to at least
> > 400 houses, or 2000 apartments !
>
> > The above is but a small portion of the 106 items mentioned in the
> > bn106.pdf file. The Malaysian government has done a lot of terrible
> > things, and the things I translated are of the "milder" kind. There
> > are more heinous crimes the Malaysian government has perpetrated.
>
> > The file listed 106 incidents done by the Malaysian government, no
> > added MSG at all. And yet, the government of Malaysia is afraid of
> > the world know of their dirty laundry. In this aspect alone, the
> > Malaysian government is no better than the Myanmar or the Chinese
> > regime.
>
> > The old adage of "People Who Live In Glass Houses Should Not Throw
> > Stones" should be applied to the Malaysian government. They do not
> > want to be treated badly, but yet, they are treating other people
> > badly.
>
> > If they don't want their dirty little secrets to be known to the
> > world, then they shouldn't have done so many terrible things to
> > their own citizens.
>
> The bumiputra policy favoring the frequently idle Malays is unjust
> but it may be the price one has to pay to avoid race riots again.

If the descendants of the black slaves of America bought into your
theory, dear sir, then there would still be black slaves in America.

Thanks God that there are people like Martin Luther King that dare to
stand up against injustice. Yes, he paid the ultimate sacrifice for
what he believed in it, but the reward he got, that today in America,
there's no more race-segregation nor race-separation. Plus, you can
count Obama's race for the presidency of America as a bonus of Mr.
King's effort.

Thanks God that in this world, not many people subscribe to your way
of thinking.


> Mahathir may be corrupt and have a very loud unsmiling mouth but he
> has brought a lot of prosperity to Malaysia.

Do you know that you are contributing to the spread of a false legend?

Mahathir was just lucky. He became the PM of Malaysia at a time when
the foreign monies were knocking at the door.

Even if the PM of Malaysia at that time was a dumbest monkey in the
universe, Malaysia would have enjoyed an economic boom also.


> I hope you mentioned Anwar Ibrahim.

Why should I mention Anwar? He is one of "them" who oppresses the non-
bumis.

On Feb 24, 10:12 pm, Krazee Brenda <brendarogu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:26:13 -0800 (PST), pg wrote:
> > Operation Lalang
>
> CicakFecesWare
> --
> See Brenda's UniWorldWarehttp://tinyurl.com/nm2yt


This is to inform you that on Google, a search for "CicakFecesWare"
generates the following result:

==========================================

Your search - CicakFecesWare - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

    * Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
    * Try different keywords.
    * Try more general keywords.

==========================================

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=CicakFecesWare&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

==========================================

You may want to try searching on Yahoo or MSN instead. Thank you!

On Mon 25 Feb 2008 05:34:57, pg <penang@catholic.org> wrote: 
>> 
>> The bumiputra policy favoring the frequently idle Malays is unjust 
>> but it may be the price one has to pay to avoid race riots again. 
> 
> If the descendants of the black slaves of America bought into your 
> theory, dear sir, then there would still be black slaves in
> America. 
> 
> Thanks God that there are people like Martin Luther King that dare
> to stand up against injustice. Yes, he paid the ultimate sacrifice
> for what he believed in it, but the reward he got, that today in
> America, there's no more race-segregation nor race-separation.
> Plus, you can count Obama's race for the presidency of America as a
> bonus of Mr. King's effort. 
> 
> Thanks God that in this world, not many people subscribe to your
> way of thinking. 

pg, this is all a bit off topic in these newsgroups so we should not 
extend our discussion any more thannecessary.  I would just say that 
I'm very supportive of the Chinese minority in Malaysia.  However one 
has to remain sensitive to the fact that the 51% native Malays have 
become almost outnumbered by the vast number of immigrants.

Yes, there is horrible outright discrimination of non-Malays but the 
alternative may be a very messy punch up over who actually runs 
Malaysia - the original ethinic people or the immigrants.  Do not 
misunderstand me, Bumi-preference is very wrong.  The Bumis are very 
privileged but so breathtakingly idle such that many are still 
economically and educationally backward.  However, in a nasty punch 
up like in the 60s I don't think the Bumi's are going to lose.


>> Mahathir may be corrupt and have a very loud unsmiling mouth but
>> he has brought a lot of prosperity to Malaysia. 
> 
> Do you know that you are contributing to the spread of a false
> legend? 
> 
> Mahathir was just lucky. He became the PM of Malaysia at a time
> when the foreign monies were knocking at the door. 
> 
> Even if the PM of Malaysia at that time was a dumbest monkey in the 
> universe, Malaysia would have enjoyed an economic boom also. 
> 

Mahathir is a thug.  And also a dictator.  He was lucky.  Very lucky 
indeed.  But let's not deny that he brought a great deal more 
prosperity than anyone ever imagined possible.  I did not believe 
many of his economic policies would work at all (and many of his 
claimed attributions weer lies).  But to Mahathir's credit they 
actually did.  At least he's a competent dictator, which isn't saying 
much.

What's more, Mahathir has a bit too much of a mouth on him and he has 
always overplayed his anti-western rhetoric way too much for my own 
liking.

 
>> I hope you mentioned Anwar Ibrahim. 
>> 
> Why should I mention Anwar? He is one of "them" who oppresses the
> non-bumis. 

Two wrongs do not make a right.  Anwar was imprisoned, brutally 
handled and obviously false charges brought in show trials.  You may 
hate Anwar but that does not mean you should deny what Mahathir and 
his thugs did against Anwar was wrong.  Do not fall into the trap 
that such things are wrong only when it happens against people whom 
you consider to be "good".

Let's wrap this exchange up soon.

On 24 feb, 09:26, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:

> In 1987, the Malaysian government rounded up all the people who dare
> to speak up against the government, and detained them for years and
> years, without trial. The operation was named as "Operation Lalang".
> This is a blatant violation of human rights.

They were ahead of their time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

On Feb 26, 3:37 am, Franklin <no_u...@www.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon 25 Feb 2008 05:34:57, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >> The bumiputra policy favoring the frequently idle Malays is unjust
> >> but it may be the price one has to pay to avoid race riots again.
>
> > If the descendants of the black slaves of America bought into your
> > theory, dear sir, then there would still be black slaves in
> > America.
>
> > Thanks God that there are people like Martin Luther King that dare
> > to stand up against injustice. Yes, he paid the ultimate sacrifice
> > for what he believed in it, but the reward he got, that today in
> > America, there's no more race-segregation nor race-separation.
> > Plus, you can count Obama's race for the presidency of America as a
> > bonus of Mr. King's effort.
>
> > Thanks God that in this world, not many people subscribe to your
> > way of thinking.
>
> pg, this is all a bit off topic in these newsgroups so we should not
> extend our discussion any more thannecessary.  I would just say that
> I'm very supportive of the Chinese minority in Malaysia.  However one
> has to remain sensitive to the fact that the 51% native Malays have
> become almost outnumbered by the vast number of immigrants.
>
> Yes, there is horrible outright discrimination of non-Malays but the
> alternative may be a very messy punch up over who actually runs
> Malaysia - the original ethinic people or the immigrants.  Do not
> misunderstand me, Bumi-preference is very wrong.  The Bumis are very
> privileged but so breathtakingly idle such that many are still
> economically and educationally backward.  However, in a nasty punch
> up like in the 60s I don't think the Bumi's are going to lose.
>
> >> Mahathir may be corrupt and have a very loud unsmiling mouth but
> >> he has brought a lot of prosperity to Malaysia.
>
> > Do you know that you are contributing to the spread of a false
> > legend?
>
> > Mahathir was just lucky. He became the PM of Malaysia at a time
> > when the foreign monies were knocking at the door.
>
> > Even if the PM of Malaysia at that time was a dumbest monkey in the
> > universe, Malaysia would have enjoyed an economic boom also.
>
> Mahathir is a thug.  And also a dictator.  He was lucky.  Very lucky
> indeed.  But let's not deny that he brought a great deal more
> prosperity than anyone ever imagined possible.  I did not believe
> many of his economic policies would work at all (and many of his
> claimed attributions weer lies).  But to Mahathir's credit they
> actually did.  At least he's a competent dictator, which isn't saying
> much.
>
> What's more, Mahathir has a bit too much of a mouth on him and he has
> always overplayed his anti-western rhetoric way too much for my own
> liking.
>
> >> I hope you mentioned Anwar Ibrahim.
>
> > Why should I mention Anwar? He is one of "them" who oppresses the
> > non-bumis.
>
> Two wrongs do not make a right.  Anwar was imprisoned, brutally
> handled and obviously false charges brought in show trials.  You may
> hate Anwar but that does not mean you should deny what Mahathir and
> his thugs did against Anwar was wrong.  Do not fall into the trap
> that such things are wrong only when it happens against people whom
> you consider to be "good".
>
> Let's wrap this exchange up soon.



I thank you for your reply, but gotta point out some factual errors in
your message, namely ..

      The Malays are NOT the indigenous people of Malaysia.

      The TRUE indigenous people of Malaysia are the Orang Asli.

The fact is that the REAL indigenous people are not counted as
"bumputras", while the FAKE one, the Malays, are bumiputras. Here lies
the problem !!

I, and MANY, MANY non-bumis in Malaysia, have NO PROBLEM in having a
bumiputra policy if the bumiputras are the Orang Asli. After all, this
is THEIR LAND. The Chinese, along with the Malays and the Indians, are
all descendants of immigrants.

The bumiputra policy was copied from America's Affirmative Action,
wherein the weak, the underprivileged, the minorities get help from
Affirmative Action.

But on the other hand, in Malaysia, the AA concept was turned totally
upside-down. It is used to help the FAKE indigenous, the Malays, who
compost of 36% of the population.

The real number of Malays in Malaysia is 36% of the total population,
NOT 51% ! The regime that controls Malaysia currently plays fast and
loose with numbers, and they include people from Sarawak and Sabah
(Kadazan, Dusuns, et cetera), who are definitely NOT Malays, as
Malays.

Although the indigenous people of Sabah and Sarawak are counted as
bumiputras, they NEVER get to enjoy the privileges of bumiputras,
unlike the Malays.

You see, this is how the Malaysian government is doing - they have a
bumiputra policy, so to give themselves, the Malays, all kinds of
unfair privileges -

    Such as a discount on house purchase
            Can you believe that filthy rich Malays purchase houses
worth TENS OF MILLIONS,
            still get a discount, while poor Indians, purchasing
houses woth tens of thousands,
            can never get any discount ?? )

    Such as enrollment into higher learning institutes
            Can you believe that a Malay students who can't even pass
any exam can enroll
            into universities while a Kadazan (also counted as a
bumiputra) with an excellent
            score is NOT allowed to study in the same university ?

It's all a trick. The bumiputra policy is structured in such a way
that it only benefits the Malays. It won't benefit the REAL indigenous
people, such as the Orang Asli.

BTW, do you know that the vast majority of Orang Asli are still living
inside jungle? They are still living in area with no electricity, no
pipe water, nothing?

Do you know that the average life expectancy of the Orang Asli is in
the 40's? Yes, in this age and time, people are dying in their 40's
and they are the descendants of the TRUE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE of
Malaysia !!

Horrible outright discrimination to non-Malays is one thing, horrible
outright discrimination to the Orang Asli is another ! For if Malaysia
truly believes in the bumiputra policy, that is, to give privilege to
the REAL INDIGENOUS PEOPLE so that they can get live better, then the
bumiputra policy should be changed in ONE SIMPLE ASPECT -

    To declare that the Malays are NOT bumiputra and the Orang Asli,
on the other hand, are!

The Chinese people, as well as the Indian people would be very
supportive of such policy. We have no objection to a policy that gives
privileges to the descendants to the REAL OWNER of the land we live
in.

However, we would object to a FALSE policy that will only benefit the
Malays, who themselves are the same as the Chinese and Indians, are
descendants of IMMIGRANTS !

About Mahathir

Mahathir is not only a thug, he is a TERRORIST !

Mahathir bin Mohammad supports Al Queda !

Do you know the 9-11 bombing of the twin-towers in NYC ?

Before the bombing, Al Queda had a meeting. All the heads of the Al
Queda terrorist group came to Kuala Lumpur, the capital of Malaysia,
and had a meeting.

The topic of their discussion is the 9-11 bombing !

They ironed out all the details of the bombing, including who to sent,
who to lead, how to do it, what's the target, and so on, and so forth.

And I am not making this up ! In fact, the CIA - yes, the Central
Intelligent Agency - of the United States of America, did know of the
meeting, and had secretly taped the conversations between the heads of
the Al Queda terrorist groups while they were in Kuala Lumpur !

Of all the cities in the world, why Al Queda chose Kuala Lumpur as
their meeting place? The answer is simple, they got Mahathir as their
supporter !

Mahathir not only support Al Queda in spirit, he supports Al Queda in
military training, in arms smuggling, in money laundering, and so on.

In fact, in the state of Kedah, the state where Mahathir came from,
there was a shrimp farm owned by non-other than Osama bin Laden ! The
shrimp farm is now closed, due to bad management.

And to attribute Mahathir for the development of is akin to attribute
Osama bin Laden for the re-building of the Twin Tower site in the
NYC !!

Malaysia boomed during the 80's. That was the time huge amounts of
monies were flowing out of America, Japan and Europe, looking for some
new places to invest, and at that time, China hasn't really opened up
yet.

So the monies flowed to countries in the South East Asia region.

Almost all the countries in the SEA region benefited tremendously from
the huge amount of FDI. Singapore, Thailand, the Philippines,
Malaysia, Indonesia, even Hong Kong and Macao, got one huge investment
after another !

Malaysia wasn't the only country experiencing the economic boom at
that time.

That is why I said, in my previous message, even if you put the
dumbest monkey in the universe as the Prime Minister of Malaysia,
Malaysia would STILL be having an economic boom !!

Mahathir was just lucky, that's all !

Please do not attribute too much good things to Mahathir. This guy is
a disaster to all !

He supports terrorism. He is a racist. He hates everybody except his
own Muslims. He is the head of a systemic corrupted regime. Under his
"tutelage", Malaysia suffered uncountable financial lost.

Today, Malaysia is STILL suffering. We got hundreds of WHITE ELEPHANT
PROJECTS everywhere. From HUGE STADIUMS that are collapsing to VACANT
PORTS that lie vacant since they were built.

All these white elephants are the result of Mahathir's corruption
scheme - in the name of "developing the country", he wasted BILLIONS
of tax payers' money in building these OVERPRICED and totally
unnecessary structures. The fact that the stadiums are collapsing is
because they are poorly built. The fact that the ports are still
vacant is because there simply is no need for them to begin with.

The biggest failure of the world today is the election of George W.
Bush as the president of the United States. George W. Bush isn't only
a lousy president, he is also not able to root out the REAL CAUSE of
WORLD-WIDE ISLAMIC TERRORISM - guys like Mahathir bin Mohammad ought
to have been apprehended long time ago for his support of Al Queda,
but till today, Mahathir is still free.

The military of Malaysia has been used to train a lot of the
terrorists. Terrorists that are still operating in southern Thailand,
southern Philippines, Indonesia, were trained by the Malaysian army.

The terrorists were trained on how to make bombs, they were also
trained in electronics so that they know how to convert cell-phone as
the remote detonator for their road side bombs. The terrorists also
received jungle survival traning, guerrilla tactics, and so on.

We know all that because we know WHICH army camps the terrorists got
their training !

If people such as me, a civilian, can know about the location of army
camps whereby the terrorists from Al Queda and the Islamic Jemiah
received their traning, surely spy agencies such as the Central
Intelligent Agency, with all their sophisticated gadgetries, ought to
have MORE on this.

But do you see any action from George W. Bush ?

Other than attacking Iraq and killing Saddam Hussein, whom by the way,
was OPPOSED to the Al Queda movement, what else can George W. Bush
do ?

Why is Mahathir bin Mohammad not arrested yet ? Why is people from
UMNO not arrested yet? Why is UMNO not declared a terrorist cell?

Why?

And on the other hand, false propaganda still flows from Malaysia to
the world, telling the world that Mahathir is such a great guy,
without him Malaysia wouldn't have developed.

All these are propagandas by UMNO.

Malaysia would developed, with or without UMNO. The fact is that
Malaysia, as well as Singapore, were colonies of the British Empire.
When the Brits left, they left behind a very well structured system of
law, and a lot of educated people.

The rise of Singapore ought not be viewed as a miracle, because
Singapore benefited tremendously from what they got from Britain. So
is Malaysia.

Plus, the Brits also imported the Indians and the Chinese into both
Singapore and Malaysia. These two groups of immigrants are famous for
their hard works, for their resiliency, and for their ability to
survive under ALL conditions.

With the Indians and the Chinese, Malaysia would have boomed, with or
without UMNO, with or without Mahathir. That's a fact !

I understand that this is a totally off-topic message in these
newsgroups, but I need to tell you the real truth, or the insidious
propaganda from UMNO would have spread through these newsgroups as
well.

About Anwar. What happened between Anwar and Mahathir, is between
Anwar and Mahathir. No more, no less.

And as I have pointed out to you, Anwar isn't that better than
Mahathir either.

The only difference between Anwar and Mahathir is that Anwar got a
"second life", so to speak. After been severely and unfairly punished
by Mahathir, he got the support from the US, and right now he is
"turning a new leaf", so to speak, in the way he talk, act, et cetera.

But deep down inside .... who can understand what Anwar truly wants?

What's between Anwar and Mahathir ought to stay that way. Let them
fight it out. Don't involve the people into this, and don't drag the
entire country of Malaysia into their pitiful fight.

On Feb 26, 3:45 am, rodney.use...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 24 feb, 09:26, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>
> > In 1987, the Malaysian government rounded up all the people who dare
> > to speak up against the government, and detained them for years and
> > years, without trial. The operation was named as "Operation Lalang".
> > This is a blatant violation of human rights.
>
> They were ahead of their time.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp



At least those ended up in the Guantanamo Bay "DID" something - like
bringing down the Twin Towers in NYC.

Those got detained by the regime that is still controlling Malaysia,
on the other hand, did NOTHING ILLEGAL !!!

They are not armed men. They don't kill people. They don't even ask
other people to kill people - unlike many so-called "holy" and
"religious: people we see today.

And they are detained, without trial.

So please, don't try to link the two case together.

Thank you !

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:18:44 -0500, KatWoman <spamfree@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Don Wiss" wrote in message 

>> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
>Don I clicked your link thinking it would be a photography page

Well, I have that too, but I generally only put that link in my signature
when I'm in a photography newsgroup.

>you have lot of nutritional healing links a surprise!

Yep. But I have been very bad about updating them. I instead spend my time
on my pictures (like my most famous Brooklyn StoreFronts). And my latest is
a site for the former family company.

>One of my good friends has MS and I forwarded your page

>one thing I noticed was a link to low fat diet for MS which many 
>nutritionists recommend
>this is not good for MS patients
>and my friend had very bad results with it as well
>the nerve sheath needs oils and fats (good ones) in the diet to heal

I am aware of the logic here. I hope she has success.

I tried with one MS patient I knew her when growing up. She was the
smartest and prettiest in her class. After she got MS her husband divorced
her. She is now living in state housing on disability. I contacted her and
wanted to send her some of the MS diet books. But her family are all
doctors. They were afraid I was going to get her to stop taking her
medications. They convinced her to stop talking with me. Oh well, at least
I tried.

Here's one of my other signatures:

Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/> (e-mail link at page bottoms).

On 26 feb, 02:29, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 3:45 am,rodney.use...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On 24 feb, 09:26, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote:
>
> > > In 1987, the Malaysian government rounded up all the people who dare
> > > to speak up against the government, and detained them for years and
> > > years, without trial. The operation was named as "Operation Lalang".
> > > This is a blatant violation of human rights.
>
> > They were ahead of their time.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
>
> At least those ended up in the Guantanamo Bay "DID" something - like
> bringing down the Twin Towers in NYC.

Sure, all of them, that's why they released 400+ of them and are
planning to release 200+ more.

> And they are detained, without trial.

indeed

> So please, don't try to link the two case together.

Why not, there are a lot of similarities.

On Tue 26 Feb 2008 01:26:31, pg <penang@catholic.org> wrote: 

> On Feb 26, 3:37 am, Franklin <no_u...@www.invalid> wrote: 
>> On Mon 25 Feb 2008 05:34:57, pg <pen...@catholic.org> wrote: 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> The bumiputra policy favoring the frequently idle Malays is
>> >> unjust but it may be the price one has to pay to avoid race
>> >> riots again. 
>>
>> > If the descendants of the black slaves of America bought into
>> > your theory, dear sir, then there would still be black slaves in 
>> > America. 
>>
>> > Thanks God that there are people like Martin Luther King that
>> > dare to stand up against injustice. Yes, he paid the ultimate
>> > sacrifice for what he believed in it, but the reward he got,
>> > that today in America, there's no more race-segregation nor
>> > race-separation. Plus, you can count Obama's race for the
>> > presidency of America as a bonus of Mr. King's effort. 
>>
>> > Thanks God that in this world, not many people subscribe to your 
>> > way of thinking. 
>>
>> pg, this is all a bit off topic in these newsgroups so we should
>> not extend our discussion any more thannecessary.  I would just
>> say that I'm very supportive of the Chinese minority in Malaysia. 
>> However one has to remain sensitive to the fact that the 51%
>> native Malays have become almost outnumbered by the vast number of
>> immigrants. 
>>
>> Yes, there is horrible outright discrimination of non-Malays but
>> the alternative may be a very messy punch up over who actually
>> runs Malaysia - the original ethinic people or the immigrants.  Do
>> not misunderstand me, Bumi-preference is very wrong.  The Bumis
>> are very privileged but so breathtakingly idle such that many are
>> still economically and educationally backward.  However, in a
>> nasty punch up like in the 60s I don't think the Bumi's are going
>> to lose. 
>>
>> >> Mahathir may be corrupt and have a very loud unsmiling mouth
>> >> but he has brought a lot of prosperity to Malaysia. 
>>
>> > Do you know that you are contributing to the spread of a false 
>> > legend? 
>>
>> > Mahathir was just lucky. He became the PM of Malaysia at a time 
>> > when the foreign monies were knocking at the door. 
>>
>> > Even if the PM of Malaysia at that time was a dumbest monkey in
>> > the universe, Malaysia would have enjoyed an economic boom also. 
>>
>> Mahathir is a thug.  And also a dictator.  He was lucky.  Very
>> lucky indeed.  But let's not deny that he brought a great deal
>> more prosperity than anyone ever imagined possible.  I did not
>> believe many of his economic policies would work at all (and many
>> of his claimed attributions weer lies).  But to Mahathir's credit
>> they actually did.  At least he's a competent dictator, which
>> isn't saying much. 
>>
>> What's more, Mahathir has a bit too much of a mouth on him and he
>> has always overplayed his anti-western rhetoric way too much for
>> my own liking. 
>>
>> >> I hope you mentioned Anwar Ibrahim. 
>>
>> > Why should I mention Anwar? He is one of "them" who oppresses
>> > the non-bumis. 
>>
>> Two wrongs do not make a right.  Anwar was imprisoned, brutally 
>> handled and obviously false charges brought in show trials.  You
>> may hate Anwar but that does not mean you should deny what
>> Mahathir and his thugs did against Anwar was wrong.  Do not fall
>> into the trap that such things are wrong only when it happens
>> against people whom you consider to be "good". 
>>
>> Let's wrap this exchange up soon. 
> 
> 
> 
> I thank you for your reply, but gotta point out some factual errors
> in your message, namely .. 
> 
>       The Malays are NOT the indigenous people of Malaysia. 
> 
>       The TRUE indigenous people of Malaysia are the Orang Asli. 
> 
> The fact is that the REAL indigenous people are not counted as 
> "bumputras", while the FAKE one, the Malays, are bumiputras. Here
> lies the problem !! 
> 
> I, and MANY, MANY non-bumis in Malaysia, have NO PROBLEM in having
> a bumiputra policy if the bumiputras are the Orang Asli. After all,
> this is THEIR LAND. The Chinese, along with the Malays and the
> Indians, are all descendants of immigrants. 
> 
> The bumiputra policy was copied from America's Affirmative Action, 
> wherein the weak, the underprivileged, the minorities get help from 
> Affirmative Action. 
> 
> But on the other hand, in Malaysia, the AA concept was turned
> totally upside-down. It is used to help the FAKE indigenous, the
> Malays, who compost of 36% of the population. 
> 
> The real number of Malays in Malaysia is 36% of the total
> population, NOT 51% ! The regime that controls Malaysia currently
> plays fast and loose with numbers, and they include people from
> Sarawak and Sabah (Kadazan, Dusuns, et cetera), who are definitely
> NOT Malays, as Malays. 
> 
> Although the indigenous people of Sabah and Sarawak are counted as 
> bumiputras, they NEVER get to enjoy the privileges of bumiputras, 
> unlike the Malays. 
> 
> You see, this is how the Malaysian government is doing - they have
> a bumiputra policy, so to give themselves, the Malays, all kinds of 
> unfair privileges - 
> 
>     Such as a discount on house purchase 
>             Can you believe that filthy rich Malays purchase houses 
> worth TENS OF MILLIONS, 
>             still get a discount, while poor Indians, purchasing 
> houses woth tens of thousands, 
>             can never get any discount ?? ) 
> 
>     Such as enrollment into higher learning institutes 
>             Can you believe that a Malay students who can't even
>             pass 
> any exam can enroll 
>             into universities while a Kadazan (also counted as a 
> bumiputra) with an excellent 
>             score is NOT allowed to study in the same university ? 
> 
> It's all a trick. The bumiputra policy is structured in such a way 
> that it only benefits the Malays. It won't benefit the REAL
> indigenous people, such as the Orang Asli. 
> 
> BTW, do you know that the vast majority of Orang Asli are still
> living inside jungle? They are still living in area with no
> electricity, no pipe water, nothing? 
> 
> Do you know that the average life expectancy of the Orang Asli is
> in the 40's? Yes, in this age and time, people are dying in their
> 40's and they are the descendants of the TRUE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE of 
> Malaysia !! 
> 
> Horrible outright discrimination to non-Malays is one thing,
> horrible outright discrimination to the Orang Asli is another ! For
> if Malaysia truly believes in the bumiputra policy, that is, to
> give privilege to the REAL INDIGENOUS PEOPLE so that they can get
> live better, then the bumiputra policy should be changed in ONE
> SIMPLE ASPECT - 
> 
>     To declare that the Malays are NOT bumiputra and the Orang
>     Asli, 
> on the other hand, are! 
> 
> The Chinese people, as well as the Indian people would be very 
> supportive of such policy. We have no objection to a policy that
> gives privileges to the descendants to the REAL OWNER of the land
> we live in. 
> 
> However, we would object to a FALSE policy that will only benefit
> the Malays, who themselves are the same as the Chinese and Indians,
> are descendants of IMMIGRANTS ! 
> 
> About Mahathir 
> 
> Mahathir is not only a thug, he is a TERRORIST ! 
> 
> Mahathir bin Mohammad supports Al Queda ! 
> 
> Do you know the 9-11 bombing of the twin-towers in NYC ? 
> 
> Before the bombing, Al Queda had a meeting. All the heads of the Al 
> Queda terrorist group came to Kuala Lumpur, the capital of
> Malaysia, and had a meeting. 
> 
> The topic of their discussion is the 9-11 bombing ! 
> 
> They ironed out all the details of the bombing, including who to
> sent, who to lead, how to do it, what's the target, and so on, and
> so forth. 
> 
> And I am not making this up ! In fact, the CIA - yes, the Central 
> Intelligent Agency - of the United States of America, did know of
> the meeting, and had secretly taped the conversations between the
> heads of the Al Queda terrorist groups while they were in Kuala
> Lumpur ! 
> 
> Of all the cities in the world, why Al Queda chose Kuala Lumpur as 
> their meeting place? The answer is simple, they got Mahathir as
> their supporter ! 
> 
> Mahathir not only support Al Queda in spirit, he supports Al Queda
> in military training, in arms smuggling, in money laundering, and
> so on. 
> 
> In fact, in the state of Kedah, the state where Mahathir came from, 
> there was a shrimp farm owned by non-other than Osama bin Laden !
> The shrimp farm is now closed, due to bad management. 
> 
> And to attribute Mahathir for the development of is akin to
> attribute Osama bin Laden for the re-building of the Twin Tower
> site in the NYC !! 
> 
> Malaysia boomed during the 80's. That was the time huge amounts of 
> monies were flowing out of America, Japan and Europe, looking for
> some new places to invest, and at that time, China hasn't really
> opened up yet. 
> 
> So the monies flowed to countries in the South East Asia region. 
> 
> Almost all the countries in the SEA region benefited tremendously
> from the huge amount of FDI. Singapore, Thailand, the Philippines, 
> Malaysia, Indonesia, even Hong Kong and Macao, got one huge
> investment after another ! 
> 
> Malaysia wasn't the only country experiencing the economic boom at 
> that time. 
> 
> That is why I said, in my previous message, even if you put the 
> dumbest monkey in the universe as the Prime Minister of Malaysia, 
> Malaysia would STILL be having an economic boom !! 
> 
> Mahathir was just lucky, that's all ! 
> 
> Please do not attribute too much good things to Mahathir. This guy
> is a disaster to all ! 
> 
> He supports terrorism. He is a racist. He hates everybody except
> his own Muslims. He is the head of a systemic corrupted regime.
> Under his "tutelage", Malaysia suffered uncountable financial lost. 
> 
> Today, Malaysia is STILL suffering. We got hundreds of WHITE
> ELEPHANT PROJECTS everywhere. From HUGE STADIUMS that are
> collapsing to VACANT PORTS that lie vacant since they were built. 
> 
> All these white elephants are the result of Mahathir's corruption 
> scheme - in the name of "developing the country", he wasted
> BILLIONS of tax payers' money in building these OVERPRICED and
> totally unnecessary structures. The fact that the stadiums are
> collapsing is because they are poorly built. The fact that the
> ports are still vacant is because there simply is no need for them
> to begin with. 
> 
> The biggest failure of the world today is the election of George W. 
> Bush as the president of the United States. George W. Bush isn't
> only a lousy president, he is also not able to root out the REAL
> CAUSE of WORLD-WIDE ISLAMIC TERRORISM - guys like Mahathir bin
> Mohammad ought to have been apprehended long time ago for his
> support of Al Queda, but till today, Mahathir is still free. 
> 
> The military of Malaysia has been used to train a lot of the 
> terrorists. Terrorists that are still operating in southern
> Thailand, southern Philippines, Indonesia, were trained by the
> Malaysian army. 
> 
> The terrorists were trained on how to make bombs, they were also 
> trained in electronics so that they know how to convert cell-phone
> as the remote detonator for their road side bombs. The terrorists
> also received jungle survival traning, guerrilla tactics, and so
> on. 
> 
> We know all that because we know WHICH army camps the terrorists
> got their training ! 
> 
> If people such as me, a civilian, can know about the location of
> army camps whereby the terrorists from Al Queda and the Islamic
> Jemiah received their traning, surely spy agencies such as the
> Central Intelligent Agency, with all their sophisticated
> gadgetries, ought to have MORE on this. 
> 
> But do you see any action from George W. Bush ? 
> 
> Other than attacking Iraq and killing Saddam Hussein, whom by the
> way, was OPPOSED to the Al Queda movement, what else can George W.
> Bush do ? 
> 
> Why is Mahathir bin Mohammad not arrested yet ? Why is people from 
> UMNO not arrested yet? Why is UMNO not declared a terrorist cell? 
> 
> Why? 
> 
> And on the other hand, false propaganda still flows from Malaysia
> to the world, telling the world that Mahathir is such a great guy, 
> without him Malaysia wouldn't have developed. 
> 
> All these are propagandas by UMNO. 
> 
> Malaysia would developed, with or without UMNO. The fact is that 
> Malaysia, as well as Singapore, were colonies of the British
> Empire. When the Brits left, they left behind a very well
> structured system of law, and a lot of educated people. 
> 
> The rise of Singapore ought not be viewed as a miracle, because 
> Singapore benefited tremendously from what they got from Britain.
> So is Malaysia. 
> 
> Plus, the Brits also imported the Indians and the Chinese into both 
> Singapore and Malaysia. These two groups of immigrants are famous
> for their hard works, for their resiliency, and for their ability
> to survive under ALL conditions. 
> 
> With the Indians and the Chinese, Malaysia would have boomed, with
> or without UMNO, with or without Mahathir. That's a fact ! 
> 
> I understand that this is a totally off-topic message in these 
> newsgroups, but I need to tell you the real truth, or the insidious 
> propaganda from UMNO would have spread through these newsgroups as 
> well. 
> 
> About Anwar. What happened between Anwar and Mahathir, is between 
> Anwar and Mahathir. No more, no less. 
> 
> And as I have pointed out to you, Anwar isn't that better than 
> Mahathir either. 
> 
> The only difference between Anwar and Mahathir is that Anwar got a 
> "second life", so to speak. After been severely and unfairly
> punished by Mahathir, he got the support from the US, and right now
> he is "turning a new leaf", so to speak, in the way he talk, act,
> et cetera. 
> 
> But deep down inside .... who can understand what Anwar truly
> wants? 
> 
> What's between Anwar and Mahathir ought to stay that way. Let them 
> fight it out. Don't involve the people into this, and don't drag
> the entire country of Malaysia into their pitiful fight. 
> 

Thank you for your posting.  As I mentioned, I don't wish to get into 
a long off-topic exchange.  Fundmentally I very much support your 
strong anti-UMNO stance although I can not claim to have such an 
strong emotional response of hate.  You need to have this discussion 
with someone who wants to sustain a protracted exchange but that's 
not going to be me!

Unfortunately, we will not see eye to eye on the detail as I have the 
feeling that much of what you write is based on analyses from other 
people and some of that seems rather selective about the facts.

For example, the pre-9/11 meeting is hardly such a big shocking thing 
as you suggest.  Yes it happened.

Also why go back to the arboriginal peoples like the Orang Asli when 
we are discussing modern history and modern migrations.  Whichever 
way you look at it the Malaysian Chinese are largely newcomers.

Your figure of 36% for Malays is not widely accepted because the 
figure is actually just over 50%.  By splitting off ethnic Malay 
subgroups I suspect you can chisel down their demographic to 36% but 
that's not exactly a fair representation.  For instance, see 
http://www.indexmundi.com/malaysia/demographics_profile.html.

The former near-dictator dictator Mahathir has played his cards like 
a real veteran and has managed to sit in western and anti-western 
camps.  His credibility with the west was badly spoilt by serious 
human rights abuses but you are selective in what is a universal 
right.  Human rights for Anwar or anyone else does not need to draw 
in the population.  This is an area in which Malaysian politicians, 
police and posters should hang their head in deep shame.

On a lighter note, I think it's too simplistic to say Singapore's 
boom was inherited and grew from its British links because, as you 
will know, Malaya was in the same position until independence.

The huge white elephants built by UNMO were at least partly 
affordable and that in itself is truly amazing.  I propose that it's 
too simplistic to say that Malaysia's economic boom mirrored that of 
the general regional economy.  You seem to be repeating someone 
else's rather unusual analysis because the data show Malaysia's 
growth for years outstripped most others in the region and often 
actually bucked their downward trends.  Malaysia was commendably 
resilient to a major world economic downturn which started in 
neighboring Thailand. BTW say hello to Hummingbird for me if he's 
still in Thailand.  (Just an in-joke!)

The Chinese are good entrepreneurs (perhaps the best in the world) 
but they tend to create personal rather than national wealth as you 
suggest and much organised crime seems to follow it.  Their money 
tends not to end up into the domestic economy so it's hard to see 
them single-handedly powering a country's economy

Paradoxically, the Malaysian chinese I know and who still live in KL 
surprised me a great deal when they said they were begrudging UNMO 
supporters.

I have written that you should have this discussion with someone else 
who wishes for a sustained exchange.  Not me though!

I think that's it for me.

Franklin

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:24:09 -0800 (PST), pg wrote:

> On Feb 24, 10:12 pm, Krazee Brenda <brendarogu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:26:13 -0800 (PST), pg wrote:
>>> Operation Lalang
>>
>> CicakFecesWare
>> --
>> See Brenda's UniWorldWarehttp://tinyurl.com/nm2yt
> 
> This is to inform you that on Google, a search for "CicakFecesWare"
> generates the following result:
> 
> ==========================================
> 
> Your search - CicakFecesWare - did not match any documents.

uh, yeah.
-- 
See Brenda's UniWorldWare
http://tinyurl.com/nm2yt

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:29:40 -0800 (PST), pg wrote:

>>> In 1987, the Malaysian government rounded up all the people who dare
>>> to speak up against the government, and detained them for years and
>>> years, without trial. The operation was named as "Operation Lalang".
>>> This is a blatant violation of human rights.
>>
>> They were ahead of their time.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
> 
> At least those ended up in the Guantanamo Bay "DID" something - like
> bringing down the Twin Towers in NYC.
> 
> Those got detained by the regime that is still controlling Malaysia,
> on the other hand, did NOTHING ILLEGAL !!!
> 
> They are not armed men. They don't kill people. They don't even ask
> other people to kill people - unlike many so-called "holy" and
> "religious: people we see today.

Mormons?
-- 
See Brenda's UniWorldWare
http://tinyurl.com/nm2yt