f



install without bootable cdrom and without floppy

Hello everybody,
I'd like to have a look into freeBSD. 
Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and a
bootable CDROM running linux. 
How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I do
NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the current
system...
Thanks, arkascha
0
arkascha
6/18/2005 8:27:29 AM
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On 2005-06-18, arkascha scribbled these
curious markings:
> Hello everybody,
> I'd like to have a look into freeBSD. 
> Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and a
> bootable CDROM running linux. 
> How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I do
> NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the current
> system...
> Thanks, arkascha

This is covered in the second chapter of the Handbook. For modern
systems under default configuration, the answer is "put the disc in the
drive and reboot".

If that's not what you meant, then please specify.

Best Regards,
Christopher Nehren
-- 
I abhor a system designed for the "user", if that word is a coded
pejorative meaning "stupid and unsophisticated". -- Ken Thompson
If you ask the wrong people questions, you get "Joel on Software".
Unix is user friendly. However, it isn't idiot friendly.
0
Christopher
6/18/2005 9:47:01 PM
>Hello everybody,
>I'd like to have a look into freeBSD.
>Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and a
>bootable CDROM running linux.
>How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I do
>NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the current
>system...
>Thanks, arkascha

Well for a start, you cannot replace any OS with another one while it's running
(e.g. running freebsd setup from linux)..

To initiate the freebsd setup you need one of the following:

Bootable network card (most cards just accept a boot rom chip to enable this)
Bootable FreeBSD CD
Bootable FreeBSD floppy


Then you have these options to install from:

Install files from  FreeBSD CD
Install files from FTP Server

You can also install over a serial (null modem) cable, but you still need a
floppy or network boot to start the installation.

My suggestion is that you borrow an external floppy drive and install via
FTP -OR- download the latest ISO and burn your own CD..

Regards,
Chris



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0
Skeleton
6/18/2005 11:52:10 PM
On 2005-06-18, arkascha <noone@nospam.org> wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> I'd like to have a look into freeBSD. 
> Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and a
> bootable CDROM running linux. 
> How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I do
> NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the current
> system...
> Thanks, arkascha


I can think of 2 ways:

- put the hard drive in to another system that does have either
   a bootable cd or floppy drive, install, then move the drive
   back to your current system. Or,
- boot your linux in to single user mode, copy the floppy image
   in to your linux swap partition, and boot from the swap
   partition.
0
Lee
6/19/2005 12:39:55 PM
Thanx for the reply, however this does not really help me: 
Christopher Nehren wrote:
> On 2005-06-18, arkascha scribbled these
> curious markings:
>> Hello everybody,
>> I'd like to have a look into freeBSD.
>> Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and
>> a bootable CDROM running linux.
>> How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I
>> do NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the
>> current system...
>> Thanks, arkascha
> 
> This is covered in the second chapter of the Handbook. For modern
> systems under default configuration, the answer is "put the disc in the
> drive and reboot".
> 
> If that's not what you meant, then please specify.
I wrote that I am working on an IBM Thinkpad 755CD. These machines date to
the early 1990th, I do not call this a 'modern system'. Also I wrote that
the machine does not have a floppy, no bootable CDROM and no network card.
An installation under these circumstances is not covered in the handbook,
as far as I can see. 

> 
> Best Regards,
> Christopher Nehren
Thanx for your time anyway :-)
arkascha
0
arkascha
6/19/2005 6:59:47 PM
Thanx for your reply, 

Skeleton Man wrote:
>>Hello everybody,
>>I'd like to have a look into freeBSD.
>>Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and a
>>bootable CDROM running linux.
>>How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I
>>do NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the current
>>system...
>>Thanks, arkascha
> 
> Well for a start, you cannot replace any OS with another one while it's
> running (e.g. running freebsd setup from linux)..
> 
> To initiate the freebsd setup you need one of the following:
> 
> Bootable network card (most cards just accept a boot rom chip to enable
> this) Bootable FreeBSD CD
> Bootable FreeBSD floppy
I have not got any of these, thats exactly why I asked...
I remember doing exactly this when installing the debian system: 
Same hadrware limitation, but I found a hint how to work around this.
unfortunately I cannot find this hint anymore :-(
Think worked perfectly: I booted into Win95 and entered a DOS command,
something that started some installation routine, cannot remember what it
was. anyway, the machine started the debian installer and everythin went
fine. 
So it does seem to be possible to replace an OS from within a running OS,
though I do not see how this is done...

> 
> 
> Then you have these options to install from:
> 
> Install files from  FreeBSD CD
> Install files from FTP Server
> 
> You can also install over a serial (null modem) cable, but you still need
> a floppy or network boot to start the installation.
> 
> My suggestion is that you borrow an external floppy drive and install via
> FTP -OR- download the latest ISO and burn your own CD..
I will try this if I cannot find another solution. I will try to get hold of
an old 16 bit network adapter...

> 
> Regards,
> Chris

Thanx again for the reply!
arkascha
0
arkascha
6/19/2005 7:04:59 PM
Lee Harr wrote:

> On 2005-06-18, arkascha <noone@nospam.org> wrote:
>> Hello everybody,
>> I'd like to have a look into freeBSD.
>> Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and
>> a bootable CDROM running linux.
>> How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I
>> do NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the
>> current system...
>> Thanks, arkascha
> 
> 
> I can think of 2 ways:
> 
> - put the hard drive in to another system that does have either
>    a bootable cd or floppy drive, install, then move the drive
>    back to your current system. Or,
> - boot your linux in to single user mode, copy the floppy image
>    in to your linux swap partition, and boot from the swap
>    partition.

Thanx for the reply, option no two sound interesting...
However, can I copy a file onto the swap partition?!?
Or do you mean to deactivate the swap partition and turn it into an ordinary
one?
arkascha
0
arkascha
6/19/2005 7:09:10 PM
arkascha <noone@nospam.org> wrote:
> I wrote that I am working on an IBM Thinkpad 755CD. These machines date to
> the early 1990th, I do not call this a 'modern system'. Also I wrote that
> the machine does not have a floppy, no bootable CDROM and no network card.
> An installation under these circumstances is not covered in the handbook,
> as far as I can see. 
>

In deseperate cases, there is always the possibility to remove the hard disk
and put it on another computer where you can proceed with installation. 
Then it should work on your thinkpad. I am not aware of any procedure for
installing freebsd from inside Linux, particularly without any means to
download freebsd stuff.


-- 

Michel TALON

0
talon
6/19/2005 7:36:51 PM
arkascha <noone@nospam.org> wrote:
> So it does seem to be possible to replace an OS from within a running OS,
> though I do not see how this is done...
> 
>

And how do you get the Linux software in the Dos partition to begin with
if you don't have a network card nor a cdrom? Idem for freebsd. Yes there used
to be an old software for booting freebsd from inside dos, (dosboot i think)
but i doubt it still works. I have not heard of that since ages.


-- 

Michel TALON

0
talon
6/19/2005 7:41:01 PM
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:27:29 +0200, arkascha wrote:

> Hello everybody,
> I'd like to have a look into freeBSD. Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD
> without a floppy drive, network and a bootable CDROM running linux.
> How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I
> do NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the current
> system...
> Thanks, arkascha

Pure speculation but possibly your boot loader could be pointed at the
appropriate file on the CD-ROM.

0
Netocrat
6/20/2005 2:04:45 AM
>Hello everybody,
>I'd like to have a look into freeBSD.
>Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and a
>bootable CDROM running linux.
>How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I do
>NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the current
>system...
>Thanks, arkascha

A couple more thoughts:

1) Does it have USB and do you have a usb stick of some kind ? (or compactflash,
SD, etc)
2) Get a 2.5" to 3.5" convertor to use the laptop hard drive in your desktop PC
(just to install).

Regards,
Chris



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0
Skeleton
6/20/2005 5:58:07 AM
>>> I'd like to have a look into freeBSD.
>>> Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and
>>> a bootable CDROM running linux.
>>> How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I
>>> do NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the
>>> current system...
>>> Thanks, arkascha
>> 
>> 
>> - boot your linux in to single user mode, copy the floppy image
>>    in to your linux swap partition, and boot from the swap
>>    partition.
>
> Thanx for the reply, option no two sound interesting...
> However, can I copy a file onto the swap partition?!?
> Or do you mean to deactivate the swap partition and turn it into an ordinary
> one?


Yes, you'd have to deactivate the swap. That's why I say single
user mode. Then just dd the floppy image to that partition and
boot from it. I have installed FreeBSD that way before. Actually
the old system was also BSD, but basically the same idea.

0
Lee
6/20/2005 8:52:50 PM
Skeleton Man wrote:

>>Hello everybody,
>>I'd like to have a look into freeBSD.
>>Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and a
>>bootable CDROM running linux.
>>How can I start the installation process from the running linux system? I
>>do NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the current
>>system...
>>Thanks, arkascha
> 
> A couple more thoughts:
> 
> 1) Does it have USB and do you have a usb stick of some kind ? (or
> compactflash, SD, etc)
Not at all. Early 90th were the time when USB was demonstrated on big sales
exhibitions first time... no one thought that you would actually use that
stuff some day :-)
Even with a USB card: Same problem as before: no 'antique' BIOS will allow
me to boot from a stick...

> 2) Get a 2.5" to 3.5" convertor to use the laptop hard drive in your
> desktop PC (just to install).
That certainly is an option I will consider. I could connect the drive to
the IDE interface in my 'other' computer - hope the drive has an IDE
interface, but we are talking about 1990th, right? :-)
Do I need a converter for this? I thought 2,5" is only a form factor,
dealing with the physical size of the drive?!?

Thanx for the reply,
arkascha
0
arkascha
6/20/2005 10:23:36 PM
Netocrat wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:27:29 +0200, arkascha wrote:
> 
>> Hello everybody,
>> I'd like to have a look into freeBSD. Got the CDs and an IBM
>> Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and a bootable CDROM
>> running linux. How can I start the installation process from the running
>> linux system? I do NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to
>> replace the current system...
>> Thanks, arkascha
> 
> Pure speculation but possibly your boot loader could be pointed at the
> appropriate file on the CD-ROM.

Hmm,
ok, you have a point there. I'll check into the grub shell. 
I do not want to replace the MBR because that might be unrecoverable :-(
But a grub shell might help, you are right, THANX !!

Though, NO!
Damn, how do I get a grub shell? I have no floppy and don't want to replace
the MBR... replacing the MBR is fine since usually you can re-replace it,
but only if you have a floppy drive :-)))
Any ideas on this idea, anyone ?!?

arkascha
0
arkascha
6/20/2005 10:34:01 PM
Michel Talon wrote:

> arkascha <noone@nospam.org> wrote:
>> So it does seem to be possible to replace an OS from within a running OS,
>> though I do not see how this is done...
>> 
>>
> 
> And how do you get the Linux software in the Dos partition to begin with
> if you don't have a network card nor a cdrom? Idem for freebsd. Yes there
> used to be an old software for booting freebsd from inside dos, (dosboot i
> think) but i doubt it still works. I have not heard of that since ages.
> 
> 
As written before I do have a CDROM and FreeBSD CDs, but not a *bootabe*
CDROM, nor any floppy drive. I did NOT boot debian or anything else from
within Win95. I did NOT copy any debian stuff to a hard disk before
istallation. I just entered that DOS command and the installer started from
CD...
Sorry for being unspecific, I am only a simple user...
arkascha

0
arkascha
6/20/2005 10:37:54 PM
Michel Talon wrote:

> arkascha <noone@nospam.org> wrote:
>> I wrote that I am working on an IBM Thinkpad 755CD. These machines date
>> to the early 1990th, I do not call this a 'modern system'. Also I wrote
>> that the machine does not have a floppy, no bootable CDROM and no network
>> card. An installation under these circumstances is not covered in the
>> handbook, as far as I can see.
>>
> 
> In deseperate cases, there is always the possibility to remove the hard
> disk and put it on another computer where you can proceed with
> installation. Then it should work on your thinkpad. I am not aware of any
> procedure for installing freebsd from inside Linux, particularly without
> any means to download freebsd stuff.
> 
> 
This is conform to the advice others gave: I will have a try with this. 
I probably will have to give the hardware check some extra thoughts though. 
Thanx for the replies !!
arkascha
0
arkascha
6/20/2005 10:41:14 PM
Lee Harr wrote:

>>>> I'd like to have a look into freeBSD.
>>>> Got the CDs and an IBM Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network
>>>> and a bootable CDROM running linux.
>>>> How can I start the installation process from the running linux system?
>>>> I do NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I want to replace the
>>>> current system...
>>>> Thanks, arkascha
>>> 
>>> 
>>> - boot your linux in to single user mode, copy the floppy image
>>>    in to your linux swap partition, and boot from the swap
>>>    partition.
>>
>> Thanx for the reply, option no two sound interesting...
>> However, can I copy a file onto the swap partition?!?
>> Or do you mean to deactivate the swap partition and turn it into an
>> ordinary one?
> 
> 
> Yes, you'd have to deactivate the swap. That's why I say single
> user mode. Then just dd the floppy image to that partition and
> boot from it. I have installed FreeBSD that way before. Actually
> the old system was also BSD, but basically the same idea.
That sound straight forward...
O, got that about dd, but how do I boot from that partition? Remember that I
am only a dumb user, sorry ! Do I have to change the 'active' flag in the
partition table or do I need a boot record? I don't really want to change
the MBR since cannot redo that step without a floppy, I am afraid...
arkascha

0
arkascha
6/20/2005 11:02:39 PM
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:34:01 +0200, arkascha wrote:

> Netocrat wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:27:29 +0200, arkascha wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello everybody,
>>> I'd like to have a look into freeBSD. Got the CDs and an IBM
>>> Thinkpad755CD without a floppy drive, network and a bootable CDROM
>>> running linux. How can I start the installation process from the
>>> running linux system? I do NOT want to install freeBSD beside linux, I
>>> want to replace the current system...
>>> Thanks, arkascha
>> 
>> Pure speculation but possibly your boot loader could be pointed at the
>> appropriate file on the CD-ROM.
> 
> Hmm,
> ok, you have a point there. I'll check into the grub shell. I do not want
> to replace the MBR because that might be unrecoverable :-( But a grub
> shell might help, you are right, THANX !!
> 
> Though, NO!
> Damn, how do I get a grub shell?  I have no floppy and don't want to
> replace the MBR... replacing the MBR is fine since usually you can
> re-replace it, but only if you have a floppy drive :-))) Any ideas on this
> idea, anyone ?!?

Why don't you add an option to the GRUB boot menu, rather than replace the
whole thing?  Then if the cd boot doesn't work, you can still choose the
original hdd boot option.  Sure, you're still changing things and it's not
100% guaranteed against stuff-ups, but if you're careful, it should be
fairly safe.

Again I'm purely speculating that this is even a viable method - I've
never tried it before and haven't even considered what config options you
would give GRUB for the cd boot.

0
Netocrat
6/21/2005 7:57:57 AM
arkascha <noone@nospam.org> writes:

> Michel Talon wrote:
> 
> > arkascha <noone@nospam.org> wrote:
> >> So it does seem to be possible to replace an OS from within a running OS,
> >> though I do not see how this is done...
> >> 
> >>
> > 
> > And how do you get the Linux software in the Dos partition to begin with
> > if you don't have a network card nor a cdrom? Idem for freebsd. Yes there
> > used to be an old software for booting freebsd from inside dos, (dosboot i
> > think) but i doubt it still works. I have not heard of that since ages.
> > 
> > 
> As written before I do have a CDROM and FreeBSD CDs, but not a *bootabe*
> CDROM, nor any floppy drive. I did NOT boot debian or anything else from
> within Win95. I did NOT copy any debian stuff to a hard disk before
> istallation. I just entered that DOS command and the installer started from
> CD...
> Sorry for being unspecific, I am only a simple user...

Simplest way might be to beg, borrow, or buy a floppy drive.  They're
only about $10, probably cheaper than an adapter for a laptop hard
drive.  Also widely available used for even less.

-- Patrick
0
Patrick
6/22/2005 4:50:52 AM
> As written before I do have a CDROM and FreeBSD CDs, but not a *bootabe*
> CDROM, nor any floppy drive. I did NOT boot debian or anything else from
> within Win95. I did NOT copy any debian stuff to a hard disk before
> istallation. I just entered that DOS command and the installer started from
> CD...


You may be looking for loadlin:
http://elserv.ffm.fgan.de/~lermen/

0
Lee
6/22/2005 7:42:41 PM
>>>> - boot your linux in to single user mode, copy the floppy image
>>>>    in to your linux swap partition, and boot from the swap
>>>>    partition.
>>>
>>> Thanx for the reply, option no two sound interesting...
>>> However, can I copy a file onto the swap partition?!?
>>> Or do you mean to deactivate the swap partition and turn it into an
>>> ordinary one?
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, you'd have to deactivate the swap. That's why I say single
>> user mode. Then just dd the floppy image to that partition and
>> boot from it. I have installed FreeBSD that way before. Actually
>> the old system was also BSD, but basically the same idea.

> That sound straight forward...
> O, got that about dd, but how do I boot from that partition? Remember that I
> am only a dumb user, sorry ! Do I have to change the 'active' flag in the
> partition table or do I need a boot record? I don't really want to change
> the MBR since cannot redo that step without a floppy, I am afraid...
> arkascha
>

It's a good question. I had BSD installed, so I used the BSD
bootloader. You need something to load the kernel and boot
it. Grub, lilo, bsd bootloader. Something.

I posted in another thread about loadlin. Maybe that will
help you.

Like someone else said, it may be your best bet is some
new hardware. Either a bootable cd, floppy or network
card. It really does come in handy sometimes ;o)
0
Lee
6/22/2005 7:46:18 PM
Begin  <tqmfyvb805v.fsf@drizzle.com>
On 2005-06-22, Patrick Scheible <kkt@drizzle.com> wrote:
> Simplest way might be to beg, borrow, or buy a floppy drive.  They're
> only about $10, probably cheaper than an adapter for a laptop hard
> drive.  Also widely available used for even less.

Over here those ide converters cost about 6 EUR or so, where floppy
drives still cost about 15. And that is the ``desktop'' version. Laptops
usually want their own weird brand with proprietary connections, cables,
and enclosures, _unless_ the thing is recent enoug to support USB floppy
drives. In which case they're usually new enough to support netbooting
from the internal network card.

As a sidenote, I'm curious how the original install went and/or how
the manufacturer had installing a fresh winderz in mind. Something
for the OP to investigate is to look at (from memory) for example the
installation notes for netbsd/hp300. The trick they employ (installing
a miniroot on swap then /leveraging/ from there) is not usually used on
peecees but it might be interesting.


-- 
  j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
0
jpd
6/24/2005 8:51:55 AM
Reply: