f



I'm a C++ programmer, and Relf's X.CPP is good.

I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice with tilt
wheel technology. I use emacs and extend it with LISP. I know my stuff. 
And with this authority, I have to say that I see nothing wrong with Jeff
Relf's X.CPP. 

Using macros is actually a good idea and is an advanced concept in many
programming languages.  LISP is a programming language that idealizes the
macro.  Relf's programming style is quite advanced, and his use of C++ to
create a language suited for the application is one trait that LISP
programmers are able to do with ease.  LISP programmers actually look down
on C++ because it lacks the ability to become a new programming language
that fits the current application.

Relf has managed to use C/C++ in a LISP fashion. I commend him for it.  As a
matter of fact, one of the C/C++ Users Journal's featured writers actually
showed how to, as Relf has done, use C++ in a more LISP like way.  That
included MACROS and many LISP ideas.  Relf is in the league of the likes of
Paul Graham, who modify the language to suite the program.  That is truely
artful programming.  

And who needs comments when the code says it all?




--
1. Do a groups.google search for the code to both my mouse driver
modification and my "hm" command.
0
Mike
9/24/2004 8:46:37 PM
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Mike Cox wrote:
> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
> kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice with tilt
> wheel technology. I use emacs and extend it with LISP. I know my stuff. 
> And with this authority, I have to say that I see nothing wrong with Jeff
> Relf's X.CPP. 

LOL! Nice try, Coxucker. I like the "mouse driver" passage best!

You're really a funny, funny troll, even though your attempts to start a 
flamewar are _too_ obvious.

Keep up the good work,
Greetings,
Johannes

-- 
One can look at the designs of a bridge, realize it's built of tongue
depressers and bubble gum, and from this conclude that it is, indeed,
junk, without once having to take the actual suicidal risk of driving
across it. We do the same with your code.  Your code is crap.  [...]
                    - Kelsey Bjarnason in COLA about Jeff Relf's X.EXE
0
dfnsonfsduifb (1191)
9/24/2004 8:55:14 PM
Hi Mike Cox,

Re: My X.CPP code,
  http://www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/X.CPP ,

You wrote: <<

  Relf is in the league of the likes of Paul Graham,
  who modify the language to suite the program.
  That is truly artful programming. >>

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Graham,
I see that Paul created  Viaweb  in 1995, <<

  whose flagship product 
  ( written largely in Common Lisp )
  let users make their own Internet stores.
  In the summer of 1998 he sold Viaweb to Yahoo!,
  where it became Yahoo! Store. >>

X.CPP is primarily vaporware an only used by me,
so I don't think I stack up well when compared to Paul.

But I do thank you for your kind words.


0
Jeff
9/24/2004 9:06:25 PM
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Jeff Relf wrote:

> But I do thank you for your kind words.

Don't feel too greatful - Mike Cox is a known and frequent troller.
(No, I don't mean that disparagingly towards you!)

-- 
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, author of "Solaris Systems Programming",
published in August 2004.

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
0
Rich
9/24/2004 9:10:56 PM
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:

> I've developed


Yeah, but you're a MCSE.
0
liam8 (4986)
9/24/2004 9:27:18 PM
Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Mike Cox:

> I've developed

....painful itchy boils all over my butt.

> my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
> kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice with tilt
> wheel technology.

Show us the byte stream from the tilt wheel, and give us a code sample.

Oh.

> Relf has managed to use C/C++ in a LISP fashion. I commend him for it.  As a
> matter of fact, one of the C/C++ Users Journal's featured writers actually
> showed how to, as Relf has done, use C++ in a more LISP like way.  That
> included MACROS and many LISP ideas.  Relf is in the league of the likes of
> Paul Graham, who modify the language to suite the program.  That is truely
> artful programming.  

You have a sense of humor, at least.

> And who needs comments when the code says it all?

To speed up understanding of what the code says.

> 1. Do a groups.google search for the code to both my mouse driver
> modification and my "hm" command.


-- 
[X] Check here to always trust content from Lin�nut
0
iso
9/24/2004 9:59:18 PM
Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Jeff Relf:

> Hi Mike Cox,
>
> Re: My X.CPP code,
>   http://www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/X.CPP ,
>
>   Relf is in the league of the likes of Paul Graham,
>   who modify the language to suite the program.
>   That is truly artful programming. >>

Tag-team trolling!

-- 
[X] Check here to always trust content from Lin�nut
0
iso
9/24/2004 10:00:20 PM
Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.  I have a hard time
following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.

0
Mike
9/24/2004 10:52:31 PM
begin  C:\AUX Mike Cox wrote:

> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.  I have a hard time
> following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.

Here. Have another hard time
-- 
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice which can be equally well
explained by stupidity

0
Peter.Koehlmann (13228)
9/24/2004 10:56:04 PM
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:59:18 -0500,
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Lin=F8nut?= <=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?=@bone.com> wrote 
in message
news:bvadnQ_r9_srBcncRVn-hQ@comcast.com

> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Mike Cox:
> 
> > I've developed
> 
> ...painful itchy boils all over my butt.
> 
> > my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
> > kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice with tilt
> > wheel technology.
> 
> Show us the byte stream from the tilt wheel, and give us a code sample.
> 
> Oh.
> 
> > Relf has managed to use C/C++ in a LISP fashion. I commend him for it.  As
a
> > matter of fact, one of the C/C++ Users Journal's featured writers actually
> > showed how to, as Relf has done, use C++ in a more LISP like way.  That
> > included MACROS and many LISP ideas.  Relf is in the league of the likes of
> > Paul Graham, who modify the language to suite the program.  That is truely
> > artful programming.  
> 
> You have a sense of humor, at least.


He is merely stating that Jeff is representative of Microsoft and it's
programming.

Can't we all agree on that?

> 
> > And who needs comments when the code says it all?
> 
> To speed up understanding of what the code says.
> 
> > 1. Do a groups.google search for the code to both my mouse driver
> > modification and my "hm" command.
> 
> 
> -- 
> [X] Check here to always trust content from Lin�nut



-- 
Texeme 
   http://www.texeme.com
Gigi's Own Newsreader Rox!
   http://gon.sourceforge.net/

0
jabailo2 (6594)
9/24/2004 11:08:38 PM
Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> writes:

> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.

Mine too.



0
johan39 (63)
9/24/2004 11:49:12 PM
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700
Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
> kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice with
> tilt wheel technology. I use emacs and extend it with LISP. I know my
> stuff. And with this authority, I have to say that I see nothing wrong
> with Jeff Relf's X.CPP.=20

<snip drivel>

> 1. Do a groups.google search for the code to both my mouse driver
> modification and my "hm" command.

I don't know why you wrote 'hm', as the 'cd' command without
parameters will take you back to your home dir :-).

But as you insist in positioning yourself as an expert, I had a
look at your so-called C++ code, and, to be quite candid, it stinks,
and it doesn't compile either.

This is the thing I located:

| /*
|  (c) 2004 Mike Cox. Released under the GNU GPL License.=20
|         email:  mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com=20
|  web: www.geocities.com/mikecoxlinux/
|=20
|            ******  Home Version 2  ******
|  The "hm" (shortened from home) command takes you to
|   your home directory if you've been wandering far and
|  don't want to type so much.
| =20
|  Just type "hm" at the shell, and you're immediatly
|  transported to /home/yourusername/


First, this isn't C++. It's 'C' with a couple C++ cout statements,
and I can see why you like X.CPP. Second, you assume that the home
directory of "root" is "/root", and the home directory of
all other users is "/home". That's an utterly unwarranted
assumption, and worse, there's an API to get a user's home
directory from the system. You also use the user name instead
of the UID - root doesn't need to be called root, Einstein.

Now to the real shocker - your command doesn't work. Worse, it=20
cannot work, as you're trying to change the state of the shell
through an external command. There's no way to achieve what you
want to do through a process (which is why cd is a shell built-in,
and not a command).=20

Oh well, it doesn't compile because glibc is NOT automatically
there, contrary to what you believe:

blinky~/Stuff[133] make hm
g++     hm.cpp   -o hm
hm.cpp: In function `void set_path(int, char **)':
hm.cpp:33: implicit declaration of function `int cuserid(...)'
hm.cpp:48: implicit declaration of function `int strcat(...)'
hm.cpp: In function `void go_home()':
hm.cpp:69: `pid_t' undeclared (first use this function)
hm.cpp:69: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
hm.cpp:69: for each function it appears in.)
hm.cpp:69: parse error before `;'
hm.cpp:70: `parent' undeclared (first use this function)
hm.cpp:70: implicit declaration of function `int getppid(...)'
hm.cpp:71: implicit declaration of function `int fork(...)'
make: *** [hm] Error 1
blinky~/Stuff[134] g++ -v
Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-linux/2.95.4/specs
gcc version 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian prerelease)

As you can't be bothered to read manuals, you didn't see
the following comment in the cuserid manpage:

       Nobody knows precisely what cuserid() does - avoid  it  in
       portable  programs  -  avoid  it  altogether  -  use getp=AD
       wuid(geteuid()) instead, if that is what  you  meant.   DO
       NOT USE cuserid().

But as your program doesn't compile, it shouldn't be too
bothersome. I added a couple of #include statements, and
a prototype for cuserid, but then the linker threw up:

blinky~/Stuff[152] cc hm.cpp -o hm
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o: In function `main':
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x85): undefined reference to `cout'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x8a): undefined reference to `ostream::operator<=
<(char const *)'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x9a): undefined reference to `cout'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x9f): undefined reference to `ostream::operator<=
<(char const *)'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o: In function `set_path(int, char **)':
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0xd9): undefined reference to `cuserid(char *)'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o: In function `recall_path(int, char **)':
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x2e7): undefined reference to `cout'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x2ec): undefined reference to `ostream::operator=
<<(char const *)'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o: In function `go_home(void)':
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x308): undefined reference to `cout'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x30d): undefined reference to `ostream::operator=
<<(char const *)'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x342): undefined reference to `cuserid(char *)'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

Which isn't a surprise, because your build instructions
forget to link the standard C++ library. Easy to fix, that
one:

blinky~/Stuff[160] g++ hm.cpp -o hm -lstdc++
/var/tmp/ccXKFlHc.o: In function `set_path(int, char **)':
/var/tmp/ccXKFlHc.o(.text+0xd9): undefined reference to `cuserid(char *)'
/var/tmp/ccXKFlHc.o: In function `go_home(void)':
/var/tmp/ccXKFlHc.o(.text+0x342): undefined reference to `cuserid(char *)'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

By now I'm through debugging your code (which you seem to expect
as it's GPLed), and I decide to plug in my username to demonstrate
that it doesn't work (it's past one o'clock a.m. here).
That allows me to notice the following:

char* name =3D new char;

Not good, this. You need at least L_cuserid characters. Oh well,
it's in keeping with the quality of the program, to have buffer
overlows.

Finally, I get a clean compile and link:

blinky~/Stuff[170] g++ hm.cpp -o hm -lstdc++=20
blinky~/Stuff[171] ./hm
Going home..
blinky~/Stuff[172] pwd
/home/sae/Stuff

But alas, executing hm doesn't take me home... At least, it
doesn't dump a core :-). What did you expect from the
following anyway?

void go_home()
{
 std::cout<<"Going home..\n";

 pid_t parent;
 parent =3D getppid();=20
 parent =3D fork();

 char* name =3D new char;
 cuserid(name);
 if(strcmp(name, "root")=3D=3D0){
  FILE* bong_pipe;
  bong_pipe =3D popen("cd /root","w");
  pclose(bong_pipe);
 }else{
  FILE* bong_pipe;
  char* command =3D new char[strlen(name) + 10 ];
  strcpy(command,"cd /home/");
  strcat(command,name); =20
  bong_pipe =3D popen(command, "w");=20
  delete [] command;
 } delete [] name;
}

Did you really think that a pipe would talk to your
current shell? What on earth is the "fork()" supposed
to do? Create two processes that do nothing?=20

This program is a cruel joke. Is this what should qualify
you as someone who "knows his stuff"? If so, I can affirm
with certainty that you know diddly squat, and don't even
have the sense to know you know nothing.

Someone who puts crap like this on USENET should refrain
from making any programming related comments.=20

--=20
Stefaan (writing in 'C' on Unix since 1980)
--=20
"What is stated clearly conceives easily."  -- Inspired sales droid
0
tengo (111)
9/24/2004 11:50:50 PM
[Reposted to comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.lisp]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700
Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
> kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice with
> tilt wheel technology. I use emacs and extend it with LISP. I know my
> stuff. And with this authority, I have to say that I see nothing wrong
> with Jeff Relf's X.CPP.=20

<snip drivel>

> 1. Do a groups.google search for the code to both my mouse driver
> modification and my "hm" command.

I don't know why you wrote 'hm', as the 'cd' command without
parameters will take you back to your home dir :-).

But as you insist in positioning yourself as an expert, I had a
look at your so-called C++ code, and, to be quite candid, it stinks,
and it doesn't compile either.

This is the thing I located:

| /*
|  (c) 2004 Mike Cox. Released under the GNU GPL License.=20
|         email:  mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com=20
|  web: www.geocities.com/mikecoxlinux/
|=20
|            ******  Home Version 2  ******
|  The "hm" (shortened from home) command takes you to
|   your home directory if you've been wandering far and
|  don't want to type so much.
| =20
|  Just type "hm" at the shell, and you're immediatly
|  transported to /home/yourusername/


First, this isn't C++. It's 'C' with a couple C++ cout statements,
and I can see why you like X.CPP. Second, you assume that the home
directory of "root" is "/root", and the home directory of
all other users is "/home". That's an utterly unwarranted
assumption, and worse, there's an API to get a user's home
directory from the system. You also use the user name instead
of the UID - root doesn't need to be called root, Einstein.

Now to the real shocker - your command doesn't work. Worse, it=20
cannot work, as you're trying to change the state of the shell
through an external command. There's no way to achieve what you
want to do through a process (which is why cd is a shell built-in,
and not a command).=20

Oh well, it doesn't compile because glibc is NOT automatically
there, contrary to what you believe:

blinky~/Stuff[133] make hm
g++     hm.cpp   -o hm
hm.cpp: In function `void set_path(int, char **)':
hm.cpp:33: implicit declaration of function `int cuserid(...)'
hm.cpp:48: implicit declaration of function `int strcat(...)'
hm.cpp: In function `void go_home()':
hm.cpp:69: `pid_t' undeclared (first use this function)
hm.cpp:69: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
hm.cpp:69: for each function it appears in.)
hm.cpp:69: parse error before `;'
hm.cpp:70: `parent' undeclared (first use this function)
hm.cpp:70: implicit declaration of function `int getppid(...)'
hm.cpp:71: implicit declaration of function `int fork(...)'
make: *** [hm] Error 1
blinky~/Stuff[134] g++ -v
Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-linux/2.95.4/specs
gcc version 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian prerelease)

As you can't be bothered to read manuals, you didn't see
the following comment in the cuserid manpage:

       Nobody knows precisely what cuserid() does - avoid  it  in
       portable  programs  -  avoid  it  altogether  -  use getp=AD
       wuid(geteuid()) instead, if that is what  you  meant.   DO
       NOT USE cuserid().

But as your program doesn't compile, it shouldn't be too
bothersome. I added a couple of #include statements, and
a prototype for cuserid, but then the linker threw up:

blinky~/Stuff[152] cc hm.cpp -o hm
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o: In function `main':
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x85): undefined reference to `cout'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x8a): undefined reference to `ostream::operator<=
<(char const *)'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x9a): undefined reference to `cout'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x9f): undefined reference to `ostream::operator<=
<(char const *)'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o: In function `set_path(int, char **)':
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0xd9): undefined reference to `cuserid(char *)'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o: In function `recall_path(int, char **)':
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x2e7): undefined reference to `cout'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x2ec): undefined reference to `ostream::operator=
<<(char const *)'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o: In function `go_home(void)':
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x308): undefined reference to `cout'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x30d): undefined reference to `ostream::operator=
<<(char const *)'
/var/tmp/ccPx3GPo.o(.text+0x342): undefined reference to `cuserid(char *)'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

Which isn't a surprise, because your build instructions
forget to link the standard C++ library. Easy to fix, that
one:

blinky~/Stuff[160] g++ hm.cpp -o hm -lstdc++
/var/tmp/ccXKFlHc.o: In function `set_path(int, char **)':
/var/tmp/ccXKFlHc.o(.text+0xd9): undefined reference to `cuserid(char *)'
/var/tmp/ccXKFlHc.o: In function `go_home(void)':
/var/tmp/ccXKFlHc.o(.text+0x342): undefined reference to `cuserid(char *)'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

By now I'm through debugging your code (which you seem to expect
as it's GPLed), and I decide to plug in my username to demonstrate
that it doesn't work (it's past one o'clock a.m. here).
That allows me to notice the following:

char* name =3D new char;

Not good, this. You need at least L_cuserid characters. Oh well,
it's in keeping with the quality of the program, to have buffer
overlows.

Finally, I get a clean compile and link:

blinky~/Stuff[170] g++ hm.cpp -o hm -lstdc++=20
blinky~/Stuff[171] ./hm
Going home..
blinky~/Stuff[172] pwd
/home/sae/Stuff

But alas, executing hm doesn't take me home... At least, it
doesn't dump a core :-). What did you expect from the
following anyway?

void go_home()
{
 std::cout<<"Going home..\n";

 pid_t parent;
 parent =3D getppid();=20
 parent =3D fork();

 char* name =3D new char;
 cuserid(name);
 if(strcmp(name, "root")=3D=3D0){
  FILE* bong_pipe;
  bong_pipe =3D popen("cd /root","w");
  pclose(bong_pipe);
 }else{
  FILE* bong_pipe;
  char* command =3D new char[strlen(name) + 10 ];
  strcpy(command,"cd /home/");
  strcat(command,name); =20
  bong_pipe =3D popen(command, "w");=20
  delete [] command;
 } delete [] name;
}

Did you really think that a pipe would talk to your
current shell? What on earth is the "fork()" supposed
to do? Create two processes that do nothing?=20

This program is a cruel joke. Is this what should qualify
you as someone who "knows his stuff"? If so, I can affirm
with certainty that you know diddly squat, and don't even
have the sense to know you know nothing.

Someone who puts crap like this on USENET should refrain
from making any programming related comments.=20

--=20
Stefaan (writing in 'C' on Unix since 1980)
--=20
"What is stated clearly conceives easily."  -- Inspired sales droid
--=20
Stefaan
--=20
"What is stated clearly conceives easily."  -- Inspired sales droid
0
Stefaan
9/25/2004 12:02:36 AM
Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700
> Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
>> kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice with
>> tilt wheel technology. I use emacs and extend it with LISP. I know my
>> stuff. And with this authority, I have to say that I see nothing wrong
>> with Jeff Relf's X.CPP.
> 
> <snip drivel>
> 
>> 1. Do a groups.google search for the code to both my mouse driver
>> modification and my "hm" command.
> 
> I don't know why you wrote 'hm', as the 'cd' command without
> parameters will take you back to your home dir :-).
> 
> But as you insist in positioning yourself as an expert, I had a
> look at your so-called C++ code, and, to be quite candid, it stinks,
> and it doesn't compile either.
> 
> This is the thing I located:
> 
> | /*
> |  (c) 2004 Mike Cox. Released under the GNU GPL License.
> |         email:  mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com
> |  web: www.geocities.com/mikecoxlinux/
> | 
> |            ******  Home Version 2  ******
> |  The "hm" (shortened from home) command takes you to
> |   your home directory if you've been wandering far and
> |  don't want to type so much.
> |  
> |  Just type "hm" at the shell, and you're immediatly
> |  transported to /home/yourusername/
> 
> 
>

You fool.  The version I was at was version 3.0. The thread title is called
""hm" command posted without formattin errors."  Type that in google
groups.  But you don't have too since I'm going to post the code here. 
Here is the full version:

/*
 AUTHOR:      Mike Cox.  
        EMAIL:       mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com 
 WEB:         www.geocities.com/mikecoxlinux/
 COPYRIGHT:   (C) 2004 Mike Cox. All Rights Reserved. 
 VERSION:     Version 3.0 

        ******** THE "hm" [pronounced "home"] COMMAND ********
 LICENSE:  "hm" is released under the GNU GPL License.
   
 WARRANTY: This program is provided AS IS. There is NO 
    warranty for this software program. The Author
    assumes NO responsiblity for the usablity of this
    software.  Use at your own risk.

 FEATURES: 0: Takes the user to their home directory.
    1: Allows user to store directories in 26 buffers.
    2: Allows user to change to directories in those buffers.
    3: Allows user to list contents of the current directory.
    4: Allows user to list contents of directories in the 26 buffers. 
    5: Allows user to specify directory for hm to list the contents of.

 EXAMPLES:
    0: linux:/usr/local/# hm
    1: linux:/usr/local/doc/# hm -s a
         -or-
       linux:/home/user# hm -s a /usr/local/share/doc/ 
    2: linux:/home/user# hm -r a
    3: linux:/home/user# hm -l
    4: linux:/home/user# hm -l a
    5: linux:/home/user# hm -l /usr/local/share/doc/ 

 COMPILE: "hm" can be compiled using this command: 
    g++ -o hm hm.cpp

 INSTALL:  Move the "hm" program to: 
    /usr/local/bin/ 
*/
#include <iostream>
#include <pwd.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <vector>

using std::vector;

void recall_path(int argc, char** argv);
void set_path(int argc, char** argv);
void write_path(char* hm_path, char hm_buf);
void list_contents(int argc, char** argv);
void go_home();

int main(int argc, char** argv)
{
 
 if(argc > 1){
  if(strcmp(argv[1], "-r") == 0){
   recall_path(argc, argv);
  }else if(strcmp(argv[1], "-s") == 0){ set_path(argc, argv);
  }else if(strcmp(argv[1], "-l") == 0){ list_contents(argc, argv);
  }else{
   std::cout<<"Error: "<<argv[1];
   std::cout<<" is not a supported option.\n";
  }
 }
 //Going home.
 else{
  go_home();
 } return 0;
}
void recall_path(int argc, char** argv)
{
 /* Get the user .hm file. */
 uid_t hm_usr;
 struct passwd* hm_ps;
  
 hm_usr = getuid();
 hm_ps = getpwuid(hm_usr);

 if(!hm_ps){
  std::cout<<"Error: Set Path Failed.\n ";
  exit(1);
 }
 char* hm_name = new char[strlen(hm_ps->pw_dir) + 5]; 
 strcpy(hm_name, hm_ps->pw_dir);
 strcat(hm_name,"/.hm");
 /* Read file and find buffer.  Execute corrosponding path*/
 FILE* o;
 o = fopen(hm_name,"r");
//please help.  I'm stuck on how to do this. Windows has a better API.
// fseek();
 fclose(o);
 delete [] hm_name;
}
void set_path(int argc, char** argv)
{
 
 /*
    Makes sure the user has specified an alpha buffer.
    Then writes the current directory or a user specified one to the buffer.
 */
 if(argc < 3){
  std::cout<<"Error: Need to specify a buffer. Lower case [a-z] are valid.
\n";
  exit(1);
 } 
 if(islower(argv[2][0])){
  if(argc == 3){
   write_path(get_current_dir_name(),argv[2][0]);
  }else if(argv[3][0] == '/'){ write_path(argv[3], argv[2][0]);
  }else{ std::cout<<"Error: Not a valid directory name.\n";
  } 
 }else{
  for(int i = 0; i < argc; ++i){
   std::cout<<argv[i];
   std::cout<<" ";
  }
  std::cout<<"Error: Need to specify a buffer. Lower case [a-z] are valid.
\n";

 } 
}
void write_path(char* hm_path, char hm_buf )
{
 /* 
    The current POSIX way of getting the user's name and home directory.
    cuserid() is deprecated. See glibc documentation at: http://www.gnu.org 
 */

 uid_t hm_usr;
 struct passwd* hm_ps;
  
 hm_usr = getuid();
 hm_ps = getpwuid(hm_usr);

 if(!hm_ps){
  std::cout<<"Error: Set Path Failed.\n ";
  exit(1);
 }
 char* hm_name = new char[strlen(hm_ps->pw_dir) + 5]; 
 strcpy(hm_name, hm_ps->pw_dir);
 strcat(hm_name,"/.hm");

 FILE* o;
 o =fopen(hm_name, "a");
 /* Turn hm_buf into a string */
 char b[2];
 b[0] = hm_buf;
 b[1] = '\0';
        /* Put the buffer and path into the file. */
 //there is a bug in that it doesn't check to see if buffer
 //exists already.  Ideas on a fix would be helpful. 2 or more
 //same buffers are possible. :-(.
 fputs(b, o);
 fputs(" ", o);
 fputs(hm_path, o);
 fputs("\n", o); 
 /* close file and delete memory */
 fclose(o); 

 delete [] hm_name;
}
void list_contents(int argc, char** argv)
{
 /*
   For right now, it just lists the current dir contents. 
   Soon, you will be able to list contents in buffer directories. 
 */
 system("ls -la");
}
void go_home()
{

 uid_t hm_usr;
 struct passwd* hm_ps;
  
 hm_usr = getuid();
 hm_ps = getpwuid(hm_usr);

 if(!hm_ps){
  std::cout<<"Error: Go Home Failed. \n ";
  exit(1);
 }
 chdir(hm_ps->pw_dir);
 execl(hm_ps->pw_shell,hm_ps->pw_shell,(const char*) NULL);

}
0
Mike
9/25/2004 12:06:53 AM
begin  On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 00:56:04 +0200, Peter K�hlmann wrote:

> begin  C:\AUX Mike Cox wrote:
> 
>> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.  I have a hard time
>> following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.
> 
> Here. Have another hard time

......and another.

-- 
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, 
indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! 
My life is my own." --No.6; Arrival
That's why I use linux.
0
willpoast (5106)
9/25/2004 12:14:50 AM
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:06:53 -0700
Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700
> > Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a
> >> Linux kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice
> >>with tilt wheel technology. I use emacs and extend it with LISP. I
> >>know my stuff. And with this authority, I have to say that I see
> >>nothing wrong with Jeff Relf's X.CPP.
> > 
> > <snip drivel>
> > 
> >> 1. Do a groups.google search for the code to both my mouse driver
> >> modification and my "hm" command.
> > 
> > I don't know why you wrote 'hm', as the 'cd' command without
> > parameters will take you back to your home dir :-).
> > 
> > But as you insist in positioning yourself as an expert, I had a
> > look at your so-called C++ code, and, to be quite candid, it stinks,
> > and it doesn't compile either.
> > 
> > This is the thing I located:
> > 
> > | /*
> > |  (c) 2004 Mike Cox. Released under the GNU GPL License.
> > |         email:  mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com
> > |  web: www.geocities.com/mikecoxlinux/
> > | 
> > |            ******  Home Version 2  ******
> > |  The "hm" (shortened from home) command takes you to
> > |   your home directory if you've been wandering far and
> > |  don't want to type so much.
> > |  
> > |  Just type "hm" at the shell, and you're immediatly
> > |  transported to /home/yourusername/
> > 
> > 
> >

> The version I was at was version 3.0.

If you don't want old versions to be found, then post accurate
references. This was the first result that came up, your home
page is empty, and I cannot be expected to know what version
your program is at. 

> The thread title is
> called""hm" command posted without formattin errors."  Type that in
> google groups.  But you don't have too since I'm going to post the code
> here. Here is the full version:

It still doesn't compile:

blinky~/Stuff[180] g++ -o hm home.cpp
home.cpp: In function `void recall_path(int, char **)':
home.cpp:90: implicit declaration of function `int fopen(...)'
home.cpp:90: assignment to `FILE *' from `int' lacks a cast
home.cpp:93: implicit declaration of function `int fclose(...)'

That's normal seeing you forgot to include stdio.h

home.cpp: In function `void set_path(int, char **)':
home.cpp:108: implicit declaration of function `int islower(...)'

That's normal because you forgot to include ctype.h

home.cpp:110: implicit declaration of function `int
get_current_dir_name(...)'

That's normal because get_current_dir_name is not prototyped unless
you define __GNU_SOURCE (portable code, this).

home.cpp:110: passing `int' to argument 1 of `write_path(char *, char)'
lacks a cast home.cpp: In function `void write_path(char *, char)':
home.cpp:146: assignment to `FILE *' from `int' lacks a cast
home.cpp:155: implicit declaration of function `int fputs(...)'

Let's have a look if you've managed to come up with something
else than forks and pipes...

> void go_home()
> {
> 
>  uid_t hm_usr;
>  struct passwd* hm_ps;
>   
>  hm_usr = getuid();
>  hm_ps = getpwuid(hm_usr);
> 
>  if(!hm_ps){
>   std::cout<<"Error: Go Home Failed. \n ";
>   exit(1);
>  }
>  chdir(hm_ps->pw_dir);
>  execl(hm_ps->pw_shell,hm_ps->pw_shell,(const char*) NULL);
> 
> }

And what do you think this does? Hint - it executes a new
copy of the shell, it does not change the current directory
in the user's login shell.

> if(islower(argv[2][0])){
>  if(argc == 3){
>   write_path(get_current_dir_name(),argv[2][0]);
>  }else if(argv[3][0] == '/'){ write_path(argv[3], argv[2][0]);
>  }else{ std::cout<<"Error: Not a valid directory name.\n";
>  } 
> ...
> void write_path(char* hm_path, char hm_buf )
> {
> ....
> /* Turn hm_buf into a string */
> char b[2];
> b[0] = hm_buf;
> b[1] = '\0';

How stupid can one be? Why do you take a character from a
string only to turn into a string again? Just pass the original
string.

>  FILE* o;
>  o =fopen(hm_name, "a");
>  /* Turn hm_buf into a string */
>  char b[2];
>  b[0] = hm_buf;
>  b[1] = '\0';
>         /* Put the buffer and path into the file. */
>  //there is a bug in that it doesn't check to see if buffer
>  //exists already.  Ideas on a fix would be helpful. 2 or more
>  //same buffers are possible. :-(.
>  fputs(b, o);
>  fputs(" ", o);
>  fputs(hm_path, o);
>  fputs("\n", o); 
>  /* close file and delete memory */
>  fclose(o); 

You didn't notice that not only does this not check that the
buffer is already in the file, it blightly overwrites
the file starting at byte #0.

Don't bother to fix this program, just toss it and buy
a book. I suggest "Beginning Linux Programming" from
Wrox Press. Work through it slowly, and there might be
some hope left for you.

I decided to make your cruft compile (by adding the required
#include files and a #define _GNU_SOURCE), to show you what it
does:

blinky~/Stuff[191] g++ -o hm home.cpp
blinky~/Stuff[192] ./hm
blinky~[101] exit
exit
blinky~/Stuff[193]

See? It created a new instance of the shell. If you use this
command several times to so-called go to your home directory,
you'll end up with umpteen instances of your shell.

You cannot change to your home directory through an external
command. It simply cannot be done, just forget it. As I said
in my previous post,  "cd" takes you back to your home 
directory. If you don't like the name, just alias it to hm:

blinky~/Stuff[193] alias hm cd
blinky~/Stuff[194] hm
blinky~[195] pwd
/home/sae
blinky~[196] 

Now how difficult was that? 

You, sir, are NOT a C++ programmer. The paragraph below is
so ridiculous it's almost sad:

> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
> kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice with
> tilt wheel technology. I use emacs and extend it with LISP. I know my
> stuff. And with this authority, I have to say that I see nothing wrong
> with Jeff Relf's X.CPP. 

You don't know your stuff, and worse, you don't know you don't
know it. And everything is wrong with Jeff Relf's X.CPP. It's even 
worse than your code (at least yours has a semblance of formatting and
comments).

Now please leave comp.unix.programmer alone.

-- 
Stefaan
-- 
"What is stated clearly conceives easily."  -- Inspired sales droid
0
Stefaan
9/25/2004 1:14:08 AM
Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.  I have a hard time
>following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.

You don't own any threads.

-- 
FloydL. Davidson           <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                         floyd@barrow.com
0
floyd
9/25/2004 1:51:14 AM
Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from John Bailo:

>> You have a sense of humor, at least.
>
> He is merely stating that Jeff is representative of Microsoft and it's
> programming.

If that is truly MS programming... it explains much.

Better keep checking...

>> [X] Check here to always trust content from Lin�nut

-- 
[X] Check here to always trust content from Lin�nut
0
iso
9/25/2004 1:58:29 AM
Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Stefaan A Eeckels:

> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700
> Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
>> kernel mouse driver*...
>
> First, this isn't C++. It's 'C' with a couple C++ cout statements,

This is the beauty of COLA -- if you don't feel like analyzing a patently
bogus post by a troll, someone else will.

-- 
[X] Check here to always trust content from Lin�nut
0
iso
9/25/2004 2:01:29 AM
Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:

> begin  C:\AUX Mike Cox wrote:
>
>> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.  I have a hard time
>> following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.
>
> Here. Have another hard time

He has a hard time finding static on the UHF band.

-- 
[X] Check here to always trust content from Lin�nut
0
iso
9/25/2004 2:04:49 AM
Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from William Poaster:

> begin  On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 00:56:04 +0200, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>
>> begin  C:\AUX Mike Cox wrote:
>> 
>>> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.  I have a hard time
>>> following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.
>> 
>> Here. Have another hard time
>
> .....and another.

What the heck.

-- 
[X] Check here to always trust content from Lin�nut
0
iso
9/25/2004 2:06:06 AM
Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Johan Ur Riise:

> Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.
>
> Mine too.

Too bad it isn't Mike Cox's thread anymore.  I'm hijacking it.

Turnabout is fair play, idn't it, luv?

-- 
[X] Check here to always trust content from Lin�nut
0
iso
9/25/2004 2:07:26 AM
Lin�nut wrote:

> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Johan Ur Riise:
> 
>> Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.
>>
>> Mine too.
> 
> Too bad it isn't Mike Cox's thread anymore.  I'm hijacking it.
> 
> Turnabout is fair play, idn't it, luv?
> 

Arrrh.  I'm getting very upset.  My goal is to get the longest threads
going, and if they change topics, it cuts down on the length.  Relf started
it and it bugs me to no end.
0
mikecoxlinux (652)
9/25/2004 2:14:11 AM
In article <87brfvmdmv.fsf_-_@riise-data.no> (Sat, 25 Sep 2004 01:49:12
+0200), Johan Ur Riise wrote:

> Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.
> 
> Mine too.

Note that if you post your threads on Usenet, you lose your privacy.  This
thread is now mine.

-- 
"McBride said he sometimes carries a gun...and travels with armed
 guards.  The gun is licensed [and] security officials [sic] have
 told him that convicted felons are behind the death threats."
-- Bloomberg News.  8 March 2004.

0
hamilcar2 (2912)
9/25/2004 3:38:25 AM
Stefaan A Eeckels <tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu> writes:

> Now to the real shocker - your command doesn't work. Worse, it 
> cannot work, as you're trying to change the state of the shell
> through an external command.

IIRC, GNU/Hurd has a command that changes the working directory
of another process, or opens or closes files in it.  It works by
sending a message to a thread that glibc starts automatically.

On other operating systems, you can instead attach a debugger to
the process and force a call to chdir().  I once did that to Lynx
on Solaris, to get all downloaded files easily to the same directory.
0
Kalle
9/25/2004 5:24:47 AM
Mike Cox wrote:

> Using macros is actually a good idea and is an advanced concept in
> many programming languages.

Consider that the macro processor for many C compilers is a very simple 
pre-processor, which can't handle many things well (like recursion and 
type checking).

> LISP is a programming language that idealizes the macro.  Relf's
> programming style is quite advanced, and his use of C++ to create a
> language suited for the application is one trait that LISP 
> programmers are able to do with ease.

It's pointless to use macros in C++, because it has stronger 
typechecking, templates, and classes.
0
hackr_d (694)
9/25/2004 7:41:31 AM
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:04:49 -0500, Lin�nutlin�nut wrote:

> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:
> 
>> begin  C:\AUX Mike Cox wrote:
>>
>>> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.  I have a hard
>>> time following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.
>>
>> Here. Have another hard time
> 
> He has a hard time finding static on the UHF band.

ITYM HF.

-- 
Mathew M. <mathew@spiesNOSPAMareus.yi.org>
GPG public key ID: 0x3DDC1413

This post contains a chemical or chemicals known to the state of California
to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm. This (these) 
chemical(s) may be harmful to your health.

0
me4 (19624)
9/25/2004 7:52:05 AM
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 08:24:47 +0300
Kalle Olavi Niemitalo <kon@iki.fi> wrote:

> Stefaan A Eeckels <tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu> writes:
> 
> > Now to the real shocker - your command doesn't work. Worse, it 
> > cannot work, as you're trying to change the state of the shell
> > through an external command.
> 
> IIRC, GNU/Hurd has a command that changes the working directory
> of another process, or opens or closes files in it.  It works by
> sending a message to a thread that glibc starts automatically.

This is comp.UNIX.programmer, and there is no way you can
modify a parent process' state through a unilateral action
in of the child. Obviously, if a program provides a mechanism
it can be done. This isn't the case here.

> On other operating systems, you can instead attach a debugger to
> the process and force a call to chdir().  I once did that to Lynx
> on Solaris, to get all downloaded files easily to the same directory.

And Java and Tcl will let you attach a console to a running
interpreter and interact with it. 

Still, the "hm" program remains like the ultimate excercise
in futile programming. Hey, that's an idea. There's literate
programming, extreme programming, agile programming etc., so
obviously there's a need for futile programming, and Mike Cox
can be the Ed Yourdon of futile programming.

This reminds me of a friend called Mike Cox (not this one) who
was a building contractor, and called his company "Cox Erections". 

Take care,

-- 
Stefaan
-- 
"What is stated clearly conceives easily."  -- Inspired sales droid
0
Stefaan
9/25/2004 7:56:55 AM
Mike Cocks wrote:

> You fool.  The version I was at was version 3.0. The thread title is
> called
> ""hm" command posted without formattin errors."  Type that in google
> groups.  But you don't have too since I'm going to post the code here.
> Here is the full version:
> 

Man, you wrote a shitload of code!  I'm impressed.  What a clarity, and
style too!  Your opinion on C++ is definitely authoritative.  Next time I
need some programming advice I won't ask C++ gurus.  They are no gurus to
me anymore.  I'll ask Mike Cocks.

But wait, don't stop your progress.  Make yourself even more advanced
C/C++/LISP/whateverhappenstobeyournextlanguage programmer.  Learn Relf's
style!

0
9/25/2004 8:00:25 AM
Mike Cox wrote:
["hm" Version 3 Code snipped]

A---HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

This is awesome, I gotta show that around. BTW, the change of topic is 
deliberate.

Thanks, Coxy One!
Johannes

-- 
One can look at the designs of a bridge, realize it's built of tongue
depressers and bubble gum, and from this conclude that it is, indeed,
junk, without once having to take the actual suicidal risk of driving
across it. We do the same with your code.  Your code is crap.  [...]
                    - Kelsey Bjarnason in COLA about Jeff Relf's X.EXE
0
dfnsonfsduifb (1191)
9/25/2004 8:33:18 AM
begin  On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:06:06 -0500, Lin�nutlin�nut wrote:

> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from William Poaster:
> 
>> begin  On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 00:56:04 +0200, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>>
>>> begin  C:\AUX Mike Cox wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.  I have a hard
>>>> time following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.
>>> 
>>> Here. Have another hard time
>>
>> .....and another.
> 
> What the heck.

Yeah.

-- 
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, 
indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! 
My life is my own." --No.6; Arrival
That's why I use linux.
0
willpoast (5106)
9/25/2004 9:11:54 AM
begin  On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:01:29 -0500, Lin�nutlin�nut wrote:

> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Stefaan A
> Eeckels:
> 
>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700
>> Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a
>>> Linux kernel mouse driver*...
>>
>> First, this isn't C++. It's 'C' with a couple C++ cout statements,
> 
> This is the beauty of COLA -- if you don't feel like analyzing a patently
> bogus post by a troll, someone else will.

I think it's a riot. ROTFL!

-- 
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, 
indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! 
My life is my own." --No.6; Arrival
That's why I use linux.
0
willpoast (5106)
9/25/2004 9:21:14 AM
William Poaster wrote:
>>>>>Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.  I have a hard
>>>>>time following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.
>>>>
>>>>Here. Have another hard time
>>>
>>>.....and another.
>>
>>What the heck.
>  
> Yeah.

Now quit that, yall! ;-)

Greetings,
Johannes

-- 
One can look at the designs of a bridge, realize it's built of tongue
depressers and bubble gum, and from this conclude that it is, indeed,
junk, without once having to take the actual suicidal risk of driving
across it. We do the same with your code.  Your code is crap.  [...]
                    - Kelsey Bjarnason in COLA about Jeff Relf's X.EXE
0
dfnsonfsduifb (1191)
9/25/2004 9:26:31 AM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Johannes Bauer wrote:

>>> What the heck.
>>  
>> Yeah.
>
> Now quit that, yall! ;-)

Nah ... It's fun! :-)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFBVT1Od1ZThqotgfgRAhzRAKCFKNEx6/XaNYmQ94u/CNuAJuqdMwCgyHc/
YLvzPHe4fuh2XCkOFIJyUEg=
=rtZ1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
PeKaJe

If you have to think twice about it, you're wrong.
0
usenet21 (2482)
9/25/2004 9:41:38 AM
begin  On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:26:31 +0200, Johannes Bauer wrote:

> William Poaster wrote:
>>>>>>Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.  I have a hard
>>>>>>time following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here. Have another hard time
>>>>
>>>>.....and another.
>>>
>>>What the heck.
>>  
>> Yeah.
> 
> Now quit that, yall! ;-)
> 
> Greetings,
> Johannes

Quit what? ;-)

-- 
The whole Linux movement has been 
craftly created by IBM marketing.
-Mike Cox - 
comp.os.linux.advocacy Fri, 24 Sep 2004
0
willpoast (5106)
9/25/2004 9:48:47 AM
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:01:29 -0500
Lin=F8nut <lin=F8nut@bone.com> wrote:

> This is the beauty of COLA -- if you don't feel like analyzing a
> patently bogus post by a troll, someone else will.

I normally don't frequent COLA. The butthead posted
it to comp.unix.programmer. I'll refrain from commenting
his posts from now on, as he seems beyond redemption.

--=20
Stefaan
--=20
"What is stated clearly conceives easily."  -- Inspired sales droid
0
tengo (111)
9/25/2004 9:50:29 AM
Hi Mike Cox,

You asked: <<  

  Please don't change the titles of MY threads please.
  I have a hard time following them in emacs 
  if the titles change constantly. >>

Turn off:  " Create new threads on title changes ".

Otherwise... suffer.


0
Jeff
9/25/2004 10:29:05 AM
Stefaan A Eeckels <tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu> writes:

> This is comp.UNIX.programmer, and there is no way you can
> modify a parent process' state through a unilateral action
> in of the child. Obviously, if a program provides a mechanism
> it can be done. This isn't the case here.

You might say the same about signals.
glibc-2.3.2/sysdeps/mach/hurd/kill.c translates kill(2) to a
message that glibc-2.3.2/hurd/hurdsig.h normally handles in much
the same way as the remote chdirs.  So if the target process does
not provide a mechanism to receive signals, most of them won't
get through.  (SIGKILL always kills the task directly.)

Is this portable?  Certainly not.
0
Kalle
9/25/2004 12:43:44 PM
So anyway, it was like, 00:52 CEST Sep 25 2004, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
Mike Cox was all like, "Dude,

> Please don't change the titles of MY threads please. I have a hard
> time following them in emacs if the titles change constantly.

All your thread are belong to us.

-- 
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.      Perth ---> *
 16:59:43 up 18 days,  2:27, 11 users,  load average: 0.04, 0.04, 0.01
Linux 2.6.8 x86_64 GNU/Linux             Registered Linux user #261729
0
spam7 (1369)
9/25/2004 3:00:51 PM
Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2rjrdrF1bha1uU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700
> > Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux

[ snip ]
 
> You fool.  The version I was at was version 3.0. The thread title is called
> ""hm" command posted without formattin errors."  Type that in google
> groups.  But you don't have too since I'm going to post the code here. 
> Here is the full version:
> 
> /*
>  AUTHOR:      Mike Cox.  
>         EMAIL:       mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com 

Everything in this program can be done with a few easy functions
loaded into your shell when you log in. These functions can maintain
persistent data in the .hm file in the home directory just like your
awkward C program does. The same syntax can be used, including all the
options.

The GNU Bourne-Again Shell (bash) has some functions for maintaining a
stack of directories, imitated from the C shell. Look at the commands
pushd, popd and dirs. Together with cd, these cover most of the
functionality of hm, other than persistence of the directory stack.

> void go_home()

You might want to take this advice.
0
kaz
9/25/2004 6:25:18 PM
kaz@ashi.footprints.net (Kaz Kylheku) writes:

> Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2rjrdrF1bha1uU1@uni-berlin.de>...
>> Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
>> 
>> > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700
>> > Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
>
> [ snip ]
>
>> You fool.  The version I was at was version 3.0. The thread title is called
>> ""hm" command posted without formattin errors."  Type that in google
>> groups.  But you don't have too since I'm going to post the code here. 
>> Here is the full version:
>> 
>> /*
>>  AUTHOR:      Mike Cox.  
>>         EMAIL:       mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com 
>
> Everything in this program can be done with a few easy functions
> loaded into your shell when you log in. These functions can maintain
> persistent data in the .hm file in the home directory just like your
> awkward C program does. The same syntax can be used, including all the
> options.

I posted those shell functions here, and they totaled about a dozed
lines.

> The GNU Bourne-Again Shell (bash) has some functions for maintaining a
> stack of directories, imitated from the C shell. Look at the commands
> pushd, popd and dirs. Together with cd, these cover most of the
> functionality of hm, other than persistence of the directory stack.
>
>> void go_home()
>
> You might want to take this advice.

raise(9)

-- 
M�ns Rullg�rd
mru@mru.ath.cx
0
iso
9/25/2004 7:51:55 PM
I wonder if he's still having a hard time.
0
nobody60 (209)
9/27/2004 6:26:36 AM
A wireless optical mouse with tilt wheel technology!
0
nobody60 (209)
9/27/2004 9:37:53 AM
begin  On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:37:53 +0000, nobody wrote:

> A wireless optical mouse with tilt wheel technology!

LOL!!

-- 
The whole Linux movement has been 
craftly created by IBM marketing.
-Mike Cox - 
comp.os.linux.advocacy Fri, 24 Sep 2004
0
willpoast (5106)
9/27/2004 9:55:13 AM
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:

> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
> kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice with tilt
> wheel technology. I use emacs and extend it with LISP. I know my stuff. 
> And with this authority, I have to say that I see nothing wrong with Jeff
> Relf's X.CPP. 
> 
> Using macros is actually a good idea and is an advanced concept in many
> programming languages.  LISP is a programming language that idealizes the
> macro.  Relf's programming style is quite advanced, and his use of C++ to
> create a language suited for the application is one trait that LISP
> programmers are able to do with ease.  LISP programmers actually look down
> on C++ because it lacks the ability to become a new programming language
> that fits the current application.
> 
> Relf has managed to use C/C++ in a LISP fashion. I commend him for it.  As a
> matter of fact, one of the C/C++ Users Journal's featured writers actually
> showed how to, as Relf has done, use C++ in a more LISP like way.  That
> included MACROS and many LISP ideas.  Relf is in the league of the likes of
> Paul Graham, who modify the language to suite the program.  That is truely
> artful programming.  
> 
> And who needs comments when the code says it all?

Mike, I can't imagine what sort of code you write, if you think that this
code is good. I would have to say, if one of my programmers came to me
with code like that, he would be looking for a job the next day. This code
is neigh on unmaintainable.

Jeff seem to believe that he knows his code and so it doesn't matter if it
is unreadable. In the real world, code has to be able to be passed on to
another programmer. Code that can only be maintained by one person is
simply BAD code.

Ian
0
nospam244 (1580)
9/27/2004 6:21:57 PM
Hi Ian Hilliard,

Re: My X.CPP code,

You wrote: <<

  In the real world, 
  code has to be able to be passed on to another programmer. 
  Code that can only be maintained by one person 
  is simply BAD code. >>

What world do you think I'm living in ?

I've been a professional programmer ever since 1982.

I can adopt anyone's code... port any code.

If other's can't read my code 
then it's probably their fault, I maintain.

It's just like all the people who complain about how I quote,
I'm the most  " popular "  poster here,
....if my  PageRank-esque  ( Google )  scoring is to be believed.

I can read the most god-awful English,
I'm generally a good reader...

If people can't read my stuff I assume it's their fault.


0
Usenet_3_ (208)
9/27/2004 10:18:49 PM
On 27 Sep 2004 22:18:49 GMT, Jeff Relf wrote:
> Hi Ian Hilliard,
>
> Re: My X.CPP code,
>
> You wrote: <<
>
>   In the real world, 
>   code has to be able to be passed on to another programmer. 
>   Code that can only be maintained by one person 
>   is simply BAD code. >>
>
> What world do you think I'm living in ?
>
> I've been a professional programmer ever since 1982.

Jeff, if you're not being paid, you're not a professional programmer.

-- 
FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE i386
 8:45AM  up 17 days, 15:08, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
0
generalpf (2660)
9/28/2004 1:49:10 PM
"Jeff Relf" <Usenet_3_@JeffRelf.Cotse.NET> wrote in message
news:_Jeff_Relf_2004_Sep_27_Rend@Cotse.NET...

> I can read the most god-awful English,
> I'm generally a good reader...
>
> If people can't read my stuff I assume it's their fault.

exactly why you are a bad (collaborative) programmer.


0
9/28/2004 3:18:01 PM
"Phil Da Lick!" <phil_the_lick@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Jeff Relf" <Usenet_3_@JeffRelf.Cotse.NET> wrote in message
>news:_Jeff_Relf_2004_Sep_27_Rend@Cotse.NET...

*plonk*

0
chrisv (22840)
9/28/2004 3:46:24 PM
"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:3q1jl05af5to4245uu227rajrb1ndkfnpn@4ax.com...
> "Phil Da Lick!" <phil_the_lick@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Jeff Relf" <Usenet_3_@JeffRelf.Cotse.NET> wrote in message
> >news:_Jeff_Relf_2004_Sep_27_Rend@Cotse.NET...
>
> *plonk*
>

?

read the op


0
9/28/2004 4:01:00 PM
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:18:49 +0000, Jeff Relf wrote:

> Hi Ian Hilliard,
> 
> Re: My X.CPP code,
> 
> You wrote: <<
> 
>   In the real world, 
>   code has to be able to be passed on to another programmer. 
>   Code that can only be maintained by one person 
>   is simply BAD code. >>
> 
> What world do you think I'm living in ?
> 
> I've been a professional programmer ever since 1982.
> 
> I can adopt anyone's code... port any code.
> 
> If other's can't read my code 
> then it's probably their fault, I maintain.
> 
> It's just like all the people who complain about how I quote,
> I'm the most  " popular "  poster here,
> ...if my  PageRank-esque  ( Google )  scoring is to be believed.
> 
> I can read the most god-awful English,
> I'm generally a good reader...
> 
> If people can't read my stuff I assume it's their fault.

After looking at your code, I see why you're living in a flop house and
are probably unemployable. If you want to get a real job, I suggest you
starting writing code which is simple to understand. Writing obscure code
is NOT cleaver. If people can't read your code, it's YOUR fault.

The other thing to be remembered; True genius is the ability to make a
complex problem simple. That code you wrote had no such hallmark.

Ian
0
nospam244 (1580)
9/28/2004 6:06:19 PM
chrisv wrote:
> "Phil Da Lick!" <phil_the_lick@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>"Jeff Relf" <Usenet_3_@JeffRelf.Cotse.NET> wrote in message
>>news:_Jeff_Relf_2004_Sep_27_Rend@Cotse.NET...
> 
> 
> *plonk*

What the hell? Did you just plonk the wrong one?

Greetings,
Johannes

-- 
One can look at the designs of a bridge, realize it's built of tongue
depressers and bubble gum, and from this conclude that it is, indeed,
junk, without once having to take the actual suicidal risk of driving
across it. We do the same with your code.  Your code is crap.  [...]
                    - Kelsey Bjarnason in COLA about Jeff Relf's X.EXE
0
dfnsonfsduifb (1191)
9/28/2004 6:43:28 PM
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:
> That is truely
> artful programming.  
> 
> And who needs comments when the code says it all?

Those are comments, from management perspective, which translates into:
"Please fire me as soon as possible.  I intend to write unmaintainable
code, which only makes sense to me.  I intend to NOT use best practices,
and use non-standard means of achieving a result.  In intend to take
longer to write my code than is required, thusly, costing more up front.
My objective is to increase the TCO for any code I write, touch, look-at,
or maintain."

This is funny.

Cheers,

Greg

0
nospam (2805)
9/28/2004 7:27:25 PM
Greg Copeland wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:
>> That is truely
>> artful programming.
>> 
>> And who needs comments when the code says it all?
> 
> Those are comments, from management perspective, which translates into:
> "Please fire me as soon as possible. 

Management doesn't know good code from a hole in the wall.  It looks the
same to them.

Just quote a very low price to get managment hooked, and then when they want
to expand the product, there is only one person who can do it, THE ONE WHO
DESIGNED IT.  It is excellent job security.

> I intend to write unmaintainable
> code, which only makes sense to me.  I intend to NOT use best practices,
> and use non-standard means of achieving a result.  In intend to take
> longer to write my code than is required, thusly, costing more up front.
> My objective is to increase the TCO for any code I write, touch, look-at,
> or maintain."

And make more money for myself, and insure that when it needs to be
modified, I'm the only one they can call at an exponentially larger hourly
rate to boot.

Relf's code makes perfect sense, especially if you work for people who are
very tight with money.
0
mikecoxlinux (652)
9/28/2004 7:37:05 PM
Mike Cox wrote:

-- [obligatory, yet phoney chest-beating chopped] --

> Relf has managed to use C/C++ in a LISP fashion.

If he wanted to program in Lisp, he shoulda' used Lisp.  Trying to make 
language X look like language Y is monumentally stupid.

> I commend him for it.

That's because you're an idiot.

PS.  I don't give a rat's ass who allegedly wrote what in whatever 
journal.  Obfuscating code by trying to make it look like another 
language is pure idiocy.


Curtis
0
cmbass_us (544)
9/28/2004 7:37:38 PM
Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> wrote:

>chrisv wrote:
>>
>> "Phil Da Lick!" <phil_the_lick@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>"Jeff Relf" <Usenet_3_@JeffRelf.Cotse.NET> wrote:
>> 
>> *plonk*
>
>What the hell? Did you just plonk the wrong one?

I plonked a troll feeder.  The troll itself was plonked long ago.

0
chrisv (22840)
9/28/2004 7:43:06 PM
Curtis Bass wrote:
> Mike Cox wrote:
> 
> -- [obligatory, yet phoney chest-beating chopped] --
> 
>> Relf has managed to use C/C++ in a LISP fashion.
> 
> 
> If he wanted to program in Lisp, he shoulda' used Lisp.  Trying to make 
> language X look like language Y is monumentally stupid.
> 
>> I commend him for it.
> 
> 
> That's because you're an idiot.
> 
> PS.  I don't give a rat's ass who allegedly wrote what in whatever 
> journal.  Obfuscating code by trying to make it look like another 
> language is pure idiocy.
> 
> 
> Curtis

Oh, and I couldn't care less if you're allegedly a C++ programmer, 
you're still an idiot, and Relf's code is still utter crap.


Curtis
0
cmbass_us (544)
9/28/2004 7:50:38 PM
Mike Cox wrote:

> It is not damaging the company's bottom line or its associated products if
> the code works.

> If the solution works, the point is mute.

Is there no limit to your mind-numbing naiveté?

Ÿ
Curtis
0
cmbass_us (544)
9/28/2004 8:00:51 PM
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:37:05 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:

> Greg Copeland wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:
>>> That is truely
>>> artful programming.
>>> 
>>> And who needs comments when the code says it all?
>> 
>> Those are comments, from management perspective, which translates into:
>> "Please fire me as soon as possible. 
> 
> Management doesn't know good code from a hole in the wall.  It looks the
> same to them.

They don't have to.  When people use such words to describe their code, it
translates into exactly what I said it did.  Management doesn't have to
know code, they have to know people.  That's their job.  Phrases as such,
should cause red lights to flash blink in their head.

> 
> Just quote a very low price to get managment hooked, and then when they want
> to expand the product, there is only one person who can do it, THE ONE WHO
> DESIGNED IT.  It is excellent job security.

Which is exactly why, if such words were used with management, as I said,
the person would be fired before he could damage the companies bottom line
or associated products.

> 
> And make more money for myself, and insure that when it needs to be
> modified, I'm the only one they can call at an exponentially larger hourly
> rate to boot.

You pretty much restated my position and then added...

> 
> Relf's code makes perfect sense, especially if you work for people who are
> very tight with money.

Ignoring best practices often does not, "make perfect sense".

Besides, based on user comments, his code is C, being compiled with a C++
compiler.  Offering that it's C++, when it's C, is yet a huge reason to
fire him, as, he's unqualified for a C++ position.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen self proclaimed C++ gurus write
procedural code (C) and sprinkle couts throughout, and then proclaim that
it's an awesome creation of modern C++.  In reality, it's an awesome
creation of an inept programmer that doesn't know the different between C
and C++.  Toss in all the other previously covered reasons, which is
harmful to the company, the guy wouldn't last very long with any
reasonable management in place.

Cheers,

Greg

0
nospam (2805)
9/28/2004 8:09:22 PM
Greg Copeland wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:37:05 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:
> 
>> Greg Copeland wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:
>>>> That is truely
>>>> artful programming.
>>>> 
>>>> And who needs comments when the code says it all?
>>> 
>>> Those are comments, from management perspective, which translates into:
>>> "Please fire me as soon as possible.
>> 
>> Management doesn't know good code from a hole in the wall.  It looks the
>> same to them.
> 
> They don't have to.  When people use such words to describe their code, it
> translates into exactly what I said it did.  Management doesn't have to
> know code, they have to know people.  That's their job.  Phrases as such,
> should cause red lights to flash blink in their head.

Of course you never say that to management.  You just think it in your head.  

>> 
>> Just quote a very low price to get managment hooked, and then when they
>> want to expand the product, there is only one person who can do it, THE
>> ONE WHO
>> DESIGNED IT.  It is excellent job security.
> 
> Which is exactly why, if such words were used with management, as I said,
> the person would be fired before he could damage the companies bottom line
> or associated products.

It is not damaging the company's bottom line or its associated products if
the code works.  Relf's X.CPP works, and he uses it to post to usenet all
the time.

>> 
>> And make more money for myself, and insure that when it needs to be
>> modified, I'm the only one they can call at an exponentially larger
>> hourly rate to boot.
> 
> You pretty much restated my position and then added...

What is wrong with an employee increasing their bottom line?  Companies
increase their bottom lines all the time!  An employee who make more money
can spend more on products.  Henry Ford figured it out when he paid people
5 dollars a day.

>> Relf's code makes perfect sense, especially if you work for people who
>> are very tight with money.
> 
> Ignoring best practices often does not, "make perfect sense".

If the solution works, the point is mute.

> 
> Besides, based on user comments, his code is C, being compiled with a C++
> compiler.  Offering that it's C++, when it's C, is yet a huge reason to
> fire him, as, he's unqualified for a C++ position.

He is qualified if the C++ compliler accepts his code and outputs a working
executable based on the company's specifications.  C++ changes all the
time, what was once a luxury or exotic like STL is now in the standard. 
Most compilers are not standards compliant, although they are getting
close.  Should people who ignore ISO C++ standards because their compilers
don't support them be fired too?  

> I can't tell you how many times I've seen self proclaimed C++ gurus write
> procedural code (C) and sprinkle couts throughout, and then proclaim that
> it's an awesome creation of modern C++.  In reality, it's an awesome
> creation of an inept programmer that doesn't know the different between C
> and C++.  Toss in all the other previously covered reasons, which is
> harmful to the company, the guy wouldn't last very long with any
> reasonable management in place.

It is also stupid to follow the latest fad.  Relf has been coding since
1984, and to follow every fad is stupid. Linus ignored the micro-kernel
fad, and he is quite successful.  Cars are not re-enginnered from the
ground up, they are slowly evolved over many years. 
0
mikecoxlinux (652)
9/28/2004 8:20:01 PM
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:20:01 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:

>Linus ignored the micro-kernel fad, and he is quite successful.

*What* microkernal fad!? There has *never* been a microkernel fad Mike.
0
liam8 (4986)
9/28/2004 8:31:50 PM
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:20:01 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:

> Greg Copeland wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:37:05 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:
>> 
>>> Greg Copeland wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:
>>>>> That is truely
>>>>> artful programming.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And who needs comments when the code says it all?
>>>> 
>>>> Those are comments, from management perspective, which translates into:
>>>> "Please fire me as soon as possible.
>>> 
>>> Management doesn't know good code from a hole in the wall.  It looks the
>>> same to them.
>> 
>> They don't have to.  When people use such words to describe their code, it
>> translates into exactly what I said it did.  Management doesn't have to
>> know code, they have to know people.  That's their job.  Phrases as such,
>> should cause red lights to flash blink in their head.
> 
> Of course you never say that to management.  You just think it in your head.  
> 

Then you've walked away from the whole thread.  What's your point?  You
make it sound like people and skills never get evaluated.  Your line of
reasoning is greatly suspect.

> It is not damaging the company's bottom line or its associated products if
> the code works.  Relf's X.CPP works, and he uses it to post to usenet all
> the time.

Hmm.  You might want to learn some basic math skills.  A higher TCO and
higher cost of development directly translates into fewer profits. 
Locking a code base to a single developer, also endangers long term growth
and future projects.  What happens if a bus hits him tomorrow?  Some small
companies have gone broke from such things.  This is a real risk. 
Frankly, it doesn't matter if you're willing to ignore it.  The risk
exists and any serious businessman will evaluate such risks.  In this
case, following the evaluation of such a person, they would be asked
to change or be fired.

> 
>>> 
>>> And make more money for myself, and insure that when it needs to be
>>> modified, I'm the only one they can call at an exponentially larger
>>> hourly rate to boot.
>> 
>> You pretty much restated my position and then added...
> 
> What is wrong with an employee increasing their bottom line?  Companies
> increase their bottom lines all the time!  An employee who make more money
> can spend more on products.  Henry Ford figured it out when he paid people
> 5 dollars a day.

Lol.  Unworthy of a reply.  It's called stealing.  Purposely inflating the
cost associated with an effort, is theft.  It's fraudulent and illegal. 
Do you really need to be further versed in ethics here?  That fact that
you're asking seems to bring light to the slim on your skin.

>> Ignoring best practices often does not, "make perfect sense".
> 
> If the solution works, the point is mute.

Only if you're an idiot.  Otherwise, there is a world of distinction.

> 
>> 
>> Besides, based on user comments, his code is C, being compiled with a C++
>> compiler.  Offering that it's C++, when it's C, is yet a huge reason to
>> fire him, as, he's unqualified for a C++ position.
> 
> He is qualified if the C++ compliler accepts his code and outputs a working
> executable based on the company's specifications. 

That's completely false.  That makes him a C programmer using a C++
compiler.  World of difference.  That fact that you're confused by such a
obvious distinction easily unseats you from your self appointed thrown. 
The C++ language was purposely made backward compatible to support most C
syntax.  Accordingly, C programmers are free to use C++ compilers.  That
does not make them C++ programmers nor does it make their code C++.

> C++ changes all the
> time,

No it doesn't.  It's changed fairly slowly, over many years and pretty
much everything that C++ is, has been coming down the track for years and
years.  That's not exactly the, "oh scarey...c++ surprisingly changes
constantly and over night", picture you're trying to paint.

> what was once a luxury or exotic like STL is now in the standard. 

You think?  But that was many years ago.  Stop living in the past.

> Most compilers are not standards compliant, although they are getting
> close.

Most compilers are close enough that you don't have to worry about it. 
And, if you actually code to best practices and ISO compliant code, it
will pretty much take care of it self.

>  Should people who ignore ISO C++ standards because their compilers
> don't support them be fired too?  

Take another pill, because you're WAY out there.  Next, try asking a
question that is actually on topic.  Next time, ask a question which isn't
stupid.

> 
>> I can't tell you how many times I've seen self proclaimed C++ gurus write
>> procedural code (C) and sprinkle couts throughout, and then proclaim that
>> it's an awesome creation of modern C++.  In reality, it's an awesome
>> creation of an inept programmer that doesn't know the different between C
>> and C++.  Toss in all the other previously covered reasons, which is
>> harmful to the company, the guy wouldn't last very long with any
>> reasonable management in place.
> 
> It is also stupid to follow the latest fad.

Good thing you're the only one talking about fads.  Thankfully, I'm not
now nor have I been.  Thusly, your insanely stupid remark is ignored.

>  Relf has been coding since
> 1984,

What does that have to do with anything?  He's been a C coder
(assuming) since 1984. Big deal.  What's your point.

> and to follow every fad is stupid. Linus ignored the micro-kernel
> fad, and he is quite successful.  Cars are not re-enginnered from the
> ground up, they are slowly evolved over many years.

Let me know when you actually plan to contribute to the conversation.  You
attempt to derail the subject and then go about making stuff up which has
no bearing at all.  None of this changes the situation, which is as I
previously presented it.

Cheers,

Greg

0
nospam (2805)
9/28/2004 8:56:23 PM
Rick <none@none.com> wrote:

> i am 8 and i pot a craon up my prifete part and it wil not com out- i
> cry it herts


-- 
You blasting, stepwise, shrub-brained dope.

0
9/28/2004 8:57:33 PM
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:31:50 -0500, Liam Slider wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:20:01 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:
> 
>>Linus ignored the micro-kernel fad, and he is quite successful.
> 
> *What* microkernal fad!? There has *never* been a microkernel fad Mike.

Actually, there was.  This was when MS decided that their monolithic
kernel, which has some micro-kernel attributes, was a microkernel and they
stimulated most of the microkernel hype.  Remember, accordingly to MS, the
NT kernel was both a microkernel and OO.  Remember, even an int is an
object, according to MS.  That was back when MS thought microkernels was
the wave of the future and they didn't know the difference between being
OO, OB and offering OB-interfaces.

Cheers,

Greg


0
nospam (2805)
9/28/2004 8:59:08 PM
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:31:50 -0500, Liam Slider wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:20:01 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:
> 
>>Linus ignored the micro-kernel fad, and he is quite successful.
> 
> *What* microkernal fad!? There has *never* been a microkernel fad Mike.

Sorry for two messages.

I should also add that back in the day, using MS' own definition (which
wasn't everyone's definition), Linux qualified as an OO-Microkernel too.
Go figure.

Cheers,

Greg


0
nospam (2805)
9/28/2004 9:09:41 PM
chrisv wrote:

> I plonked a troll feeder.  The troll itself was plonked long ago.

Oh so... I also plonked Relf. Usenet's more relaxed when you don't have 
to read all the shit these morons write ;-)

Greetings,
Johannes

-- 
One can look at the designs of a bridge, realize it's built of tongue
depressers and bubble gum, and from this conclude that it is, indeed,
junk, without once having to take the actual suicidal risk of driving
across it. We do the same with your code.  Your code is crap.  [...]
                    - Kelsey Bjarnason in COLA about Jeff Relf's X.EXE
0
dfnsonfsduifb (1191)
9/28/2004 9:38:55 PM
Greg Copeland wrote:


> 
>> C++ changes all the
>> time,
> 
> No it doesn't.  It's changed fairly slowly, over many years and pretty
> much everything that C++ is, has been coming down the track for years and
> years.  That's not exactly the, "oh scarey...c++ surprisingly changes
> constantly and over night", picture you're trying to paint.
> 
>> what was once a luxury or exotic like STL is now in the standard.
> 
> You think?  But that was many years ago.  Stop living in the past.
> 
>> Most compilers are not standards compliant, although they are getting
>> close.
> 
> Most compilers are close enough that you don't have to worry about it.
> And, if you actually code to best practices and ISO compliant code, it
> will pretty much take care of it self.
> 

Wrong.  Many applications need to be compiled on Visual C++ 6.0 because it
would cost too much to use VC++ 7.0.  In Visual C++ 6.0, when new failed it
didn't throw an exception.  In VC++ 7.0 it does.  VC++ is probably the most
used compiler in the world.


Here is a code sample that would compile in VC++ 7.0 and not 6.0:

try{

        int x = *new int;
}
catch(std::bad_alloc&){
....
}

That the new operator throws a bad_alloc is in the standard.  If a
programmer does the the error checking that works in VC++ 6.0, should he
get fired?


0
mikecoxlinux (652)
9/28/2004 9:48:16 PM
Mike Cox wrote:

> Greg Copeland wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>>> C++ changes all the
>>> time,
>> 
>> No it doesn't.  It's changed fairly slowly, over many years and pretty
>> much everything that C++ is, has been coming down the track for years and
>> years.  That's not exactly the, "oh scarey...c++ surprisingly changes
>> constantly and over night", picture you're trying to paint.
>> 
>>> what was once a luxury or exotic like STL is now in the standard.
>> 
>> You think?  But that was many years ago.  Stop living in the past.
>> 
>>> Most compilers are not standards compliant, although they are getting
>>> close.
>> 
>> Most compilers are close enough that you don't have to worry about it.
>> And, if you actually code to best practices and ISO compliant code, it
>> will pretty much take care of it self.
>> 
> 
> Wrong.  Many applications need to be compiled on Visual C++ 6.0 because it
> would cost too much to use VC++ 7.0.  In Visual C++ 6.0, when new failed
> it
> didn't throw an exception.  In VC++ 7.0 it does.  VC++ is probably the
> most used compiler in the world.
> 
> 
> Here is a code sample that would compile in VC++ 7.0 and not 6.0:
> 
> try{
> 
>         int x = *new int;
> }
> catch(std::bad_alloc&){
> ...
> }
> 


Oops.  I have a typo in this code. It should be:


try{

        int* x = *new int;
}
catch(std::bad_alloc&){
....
}
0
mikecoxlinux (652)
9/28/2004 10:09:22 PM

Mike Cox wrote:

>>
>>Those are comments, from management perspective, which translates into:
>>"Please fire me as soon as possible. 
> 
> 
> Management doesn't know good code from a hole in the wall.  It looks the
> same to them.
> 
> Just quote a very low price to get managment hooked, and then when they want
> to expand the product, there is only one person who can do it, THE ONE WHO
> DESIGNED IT.  It is excellent job security.
> 

Yep.  Standard M$ tactic too.  Gets the PHBs everytime doesn't it.

-- 
---------------------------------
The Golden Years Sux.

0
mist (19747)
9/28/2004 10:34:12 PM
begin  On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:38:55 +0200, Johannes Bauer wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
> 
>> I plonked a troll feeder.  The troll itself was plonked long ago.
> 
> Oh so... I also plonked Relf. Usenet's more relaxed when you don't have to
> read all the shit these morons write ;-)
> 
> Greetings,
> Johannes

I dumped Relf in the shitbin ages ago. Before I came into this group, I
saw a conversation elsewhere about him. The general theme was that he's
a wanker. After reading some of his posts for a week or so, I soon came to
the same conclusion. 

-- 
Stupidity is the only universal capital crime.
There is no appeal, and execution is carried 
out by the stupid person himself.
- Robert A. Heinlein -
0
willpoast (5106)
9/28/2004 11:17:28 PM
Curtis Bass wrote:

> Mike Cox wrote:
> 
> -- [obligatory, yet phoney chest-beating chopped] --
> 
>> Relf has managed to use C/C++ in a LISP fashion.
> 
> If he wanted to program in Lisp, he shoulda' used Lisp.  Trying to make
> language X look like language Y is monumentally stupid.

Are you calling Paul Graham stupid? In his lisp book, Paul Graham created a
different programming language to fit the application he was building. 
LISP makes it easy to do, that is why it is popular with elitists like
Graham.  That doesn't mean it cannot be done in C++.  It just takes a bit
more work.

> 
>> I commend him for it.
> 
> That's because you're an idiot.
> 
> PS.  I don't give a rat's ass who allegedly wrote what in whatever
> journal.  Obfuscating code by trying to make it look like another
> language is pure idiocy.

No its not.  The CUJ author was explaining how to use objects more
effectively and he was showing how to think like a LISP programmer.  They
are highly regarded as super-elitists, but that elitism title is usually
well earned at least.

BTW I'd give much more weight to someone who gets published in CUJ than you. 
CUJ has people like Herb Sutter writing articles.
0
mikecoxlinux (652)
9/28/2004 11:18:27 PM
begin  C:\AUX William Poaster wrote:

> begin  On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:38:55 +0200, Johannes Bauer wrote:
> 
>> chrisv wrote:
>> 
>>> I plonked a troll feeder.  The troll itself was plonked long ago.
>> 
>> Oh so... I also plonked Relf. Usenet's more relaxed when you don't have
>> to read all the shit these morons write ;-)
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> Johannes
> 
> I dumped Relf in the shitbin ages ago. Before I came into this group, I
> saw a conversation elsewhere about him. The general theme was that he's
> a wanker. After reading some of his posts for a week or so, I soon came to
> the same conclusion.
> 

You seem to be rather slow. It took less than a day for me to come to the
conclusion that there are few people out there who are as dumb as he is
-- 
Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
        It could be worse, but it'll take time.

0
Peter.Koehlmann (13228)
9/28/2004 11:21:28 PM
begin  On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:21:28 +0200, Peter K�hlmann wrote:

> begin  C:\AUX William Poaster wrote:
> 
>> begin  On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:38:55 +0200, Johannes Bauer wrote:
>> 
>>> chrisv wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I plonked a troll feeder.  The troll itself was plonked long ago.
>>> 
>>> Oh so... I also plonked Relf. Usenet's more relaxed when you don't have
>>> to read all the shit these morons write ;-)
>>> 
>>> Greetings,
>>> Johannes
>> 
>> I dumped Relf in the shitbin ages ago. Before I came into this group, I
>> saw a conversation elsewhere about him. The general theme was that he's
>> a wanker. After reading some of his posts for a week or so, I soon came
>> to the same conclusion.
>> 
>> 
> You seem to be rather slow. It took less than a day for me to come to the
> conclusion that there are few people out there who are as dumb as he is

I didn't read every one of his posts, perhaps about half-a-dozen at most.
Always seemed to be crap, so.......pfffft.

-- 
Stupidity is the only universal capital crime.
There is no appeal, and execution is carried 
out by the stupid person himself.
- Robert A. Heinlein -
0
willpoast (5106)
9/29/2004 12:22:47 AM
Mike Cox wrote:

 > Curtis Bass wrote:
 >
 >
 >>Mike Cox wrote:
 >>
 >>-- [obligatory, yet phoney chest-beating chopped] --
 >>
 >>
 >>>Relf has managed to use C/C++ in a LISP fashion.
 >>
 >>If he wanted to program in Lisp, he shoulda' used Lisp.  Trying to make
 >>language X look like language Y is monumentally stupid.
 >
 >
 > Are you calling Paul Graham stupid?

If he's advocating making one language look like another language at the 
cost of readability, then yes, I am.  However, I suspect that such is 
not what he's really doing.

 > In his lisp book, Paul Graham created a
 > different programming language to fit the application he was building.
 > LISP makes it easy to do, that is why it is popular with elitists like
 > Graham.  That doesn't mean it cannot be done in C++.  It just takes a bit
 > more work.

None of which has anything to do with making a language look like a 
completely different language, and obfuscating the code in the process.

 >>>I commend him for it.
 >>
 >>That's because you're an idiot.
 >>
 >>PS.  I don't give a rat's ass who allegedly wrote what in whatever
 >>journal.  Obfuscating code by trying to make it look like another
 >>language is pure idiocy.
 >
 >
 > No its not.

Yes, it is, your whines to the contrary notwithstanding.

 > The CUJ author was explaining how to use objects more
 > effectively and he was showing how to think like a LISP programmer.

If you cannot grasp the difference between "use objects more effectively 
and . . . think like a LISP programmer" and "obfuscate code by making it 
look like a completely different language", then your mind is weaker 
than I originally suspected.  Hell, Relf disdains object-oriented code, 
so your arguments are, shall we say, "misplaced", to put it mildly.

      "What you are espousing, OOP, makes
      _ Zero _  sense."  Jeff Relf -- 09/21/2004

The code in X.XPP sure as hell ain't OO, just to clarify.

 > BTW I'd give much more weight to someone who gets published in
 > CUJ than you. CUJ has people like Herb Sutter writing articles.

I have no problem with any of that.  I do have a problem with 
misrepresentations and misplaced arguments, however, and I really have a 
problem with shitty, unreadable, unmaintainable code.  I don't give a 
flying _fuck_ if it "works" when it's so damned unreadable.  Any slob 
can write code that "works" under ideal conditions, but it takes a bit 
more discipline to make it readable by someone other than the author, 
and to make it robust.  Relf admits that he wants more functionality, 
but that it'll take _years_ to add it in -- what he's implicitly 
admitting is that _he_ can't even maintain that pile of shit.  It should 
_not_ take _years_ to build a decent news reader.


-- 
Curtis Bass             "Google is irrelevant"
Technical Consultant    Dave Tholen -- 09/18/2004
0
cmbass_us (544)
9/29/2004 1:57:11 AM

Mike Cox wrote:

> 
> Oops.  I have a typo in this code. It should be:
> 
> 
> try{
> 
>         int* x = *new int;
> }
> catch(std::bad_alloc&){
> ...
> }


How about

try { -----------------------------------------------------------> over 
here and get lost.

-- 
---------------------------------
The Golden Years Sux.

0
mist (19747)
9/29/2004 2:57:25 AM
"Johannes Bauer" <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:gvno22x5l7.ln2@snifftop.sniffdomain...
> chrisv wrote:
> > "Phil Da Lick!" <phil_the_lick@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"Jeff Relf" <Usenet_3_@JeffRelf.Cotse.NET> wrote in message
> >>news:_Jeff_Relf_2004_Sep_27_Rend@Cotse.NET...
> >
> >
> > *plonk*
>
> What the hell? Did you just plonk the wrong one?

tough crowd. ah well whatever. fuck him.


0
9/29/2004 8:28:55 AM
GreyCloud wrote:
<nothing, as always>

0
sheenan (1077)
9/29/2004 2:04:30 PM
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:48:16 -0700, Mike Cox wrote:


> That the new operator throws a bad_alloc is in the standard.  If a
> programmer does the the error checking that works in VC++ 6.0, should he
> get fired?

One again you prove you're an idiot.

You have my pity.

Cheers,

Greg

0
nospam (2805)
9/29/2004 5:34:03 PM
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:00:51 -0400, Curtis Bass wrote:

> Mike Cox wrote:
> 
>> It is not damaging the company's bottom line or its associated products if
>> the code works.
> 
>> If the solution works, the point is mute.
> 
> Is there no limit to your mind-numbing naivet�?
> 

It's very obvious he hasn't a clue about basic business or sound
development, let alone, basic ethics.  I couldn't agree more with you.

Cheers,

Greg

0
nospam (2805)
9/29/2004 5:35:24 PM

S.Heenan wrote:

> GreyCloud wrote:
> <nothing, as always>
> 


Guffaw!!  Now go look in a mirror, moron.

-- 
---------------------------------
The Golden Years Sux.

0
mist (19747)
9/29/2004 5:43:43 PM
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:59:08 -0500, Greg Copeland wrote:

> Actually, there was.
<snip>

I mean a *real* microkernel fad. As in a fad for the real use of actual
microkernel architecture. Never was such a thing, ever.

0
liam8 (4986)
9/29/2004 6:16:46 PM
--Jeff Relf <Usenet_3_@JeffRelf.Cotse.NET> spewed this unto the Network: 
> Hi Ian Hilliard,
> 
> 
> What world do you think I'm living in ?

A fantasy world, in which this message appears blank because it has
a line beginning with "--".

> I've been a professional programmer ever since 1982.
> I can adopt anyone's code... port any code.

Yet you can't produce a decent newsreader from scratch. Instead
you re-create idiotic Microsoft bugs in your own code.

> I can read the most god-awful English,
> I'm generally a good reader...

You may be able to read the words, but it doesn't appear
that you comprehend their meaning.

0
nobody60 (209)
9/29/2004 9:06:46 PM
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:16:46 -0500, Liam Slider wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:59:08 -0500, Greg Copeland wrote:
> 
>> Actually, there was.
> <snip>
> 
> I mean a *real* microkernel fad. As in a fad for the real use of actual
> microkernel architecture. Never was such a thing, ever.

Well, I think you *really* got me on that one then.  :P  Well, maybe not. 
I think it depends on your vantage point.  QNX is really the only
commercial successful story for microkernels that I'm aware of.  For a
while, there were a number of mach kernel projects (all microkernel).  Add
in MS' pethetic effort, and one might claim a fad.  Isn't Apple using one
of the mach derivatives? I honestly don't recall. From that, one could
claim that there was a *fad* (an interest followed with exaggerated zeal).

At any rate, your point is well taken.

Cheers,

Greg


0
nospam (2805)
9/29/2004 9:17:31 PM
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:17:31 -0500, Greg Copeland wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:16:46 -0500, Liam Slider wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:59:08 -0500, Greg Copeland wrote:
>> 
>>> Actually, there was.
>> <snip>
>> 
>> I mean a *real* microkernel fad. As in a fad for the real use of actual
>> microkernel architecture. Never was such a thing, ever.
> 
> Well, I think you *really* got me on that one then.  :P  Well, maybe not. 
> I think it depends on your vantage point.  QNX is really the only
> commercial successful story for microkernels that I'm aware of. 

Yes, QNX is pretty much it.

>  For a
> while, there were a number of mach kernel projects (all microkernel).

Yeah, Linux pretty much beating them out.

> Add in MS' pethetic effort, and one might claim a fad.

Except that MS never actually had a true microkernel.

> Isn't Apple
> using one of the mach derivatives? I honestly don't recall. 

Yes, Mac OSX uses Mach, but not as a microkernel oddly enough. Their
implimentation of it has turned it into a standard monolithic kernel.

> From that,
> one could claim that there was a *fad* (an interest followed with
> exaggerated zeal).
> 
> At any rate, your point is well taken.

0
liam8 (4986)
9/29/2004 10:13:12 PM
Hi Greg Copeland,

Re: My X.CPP code and my 23 years of 
professional programming experience vs. any programmers
( real or imagined )  that you  " Know ",

You told Mike Cox: <<

  Hmm.  You might want to learn some basic math skills.  
  A higher TCO and higher cost of development 
  directly translates into fewer profits. >>

I work for 400 dollars per month sometimes,
in 2003 I only worked 50 hours.

I've been working for essentially the same people
for over 11 years now.

Now tell me...  Can you locate a cheaper programmer ?

Can you locate a programmer 
that you'd even  _ Want _  to keep around that long ?

Because I'll just be sitting here, waiting for your answer.

You continued: <<

  Locking a code base to a single developer, 
  also endangers long term growth and future projects.
  What happens if a bus hits him tomorrow ? >>

Not only are my professional programs
documented from here to hell
( both at the student level and the administrator level ),
....the  _ Design _  of the program is also well documented,
including the full source code with links to it
from within a .DOC file.

I have many years worth of backups,
including many recent ones.

My source code is on my computer and on my professors
computer at the University of Washington.
....as he sometimes compiles it too.

If you, Greg, can do any better than that,
then I'd like to hear about it.

You went on: <<

  Some small companies have gone broke from such things.
  This is a real risk.  
  Frankly, it doesn't matter if you're willing to ignore it.
  The risk exists and any serious businessman 
  will evaluate such risks.  
  In this case, following the evaluation of such a person,
  they would be asked to change or be fired. >>

You can't fire someone like me,
....because no one like me would 
ever work for you in the first place !

As for whether I use C++ features or not,
take a look at the following code from X.CPP:
( http://www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/X.CPP )

Some of X.CPP's output is shown here:

  news:_Jeff_Relf_2004_Sep_28_I3LV@Cotse.NET

Here's how I declare dynamic lists now  ( Very simple ! ):

IncDef( EnA, EnP, EnT, En )  // Linked-to people
IncDef( LnA, LnP, LnT, Ln )  // Scroll/screen buffer
IncDef( TrA, TrP, TrT, Tr )  // The tree of messages
IncDef( SuA, SuP, SuT, Su )  // Linked-from people

QSort_Def ( QSort_En, EnA, EnP ) // Sorts linked-to people
QSort_Def ( QSort_Su, SuA, SuP ) // Sorts linked-from people

where:

// The list grows by 50 percent each time:
// Notice the C++  ( not C )  usage of the & symbol.
// Notice the C++  ( not C )  declaration of variables
//   in-between statements.
// Notice the C++  ( not C )  overloading.

#define IncDef( XxA, XxP, XxT, Xx ) \
  XxP & Inc ( XxT & Xx ) {  \
    if ( Xx.B && ++ Xx.P < Xx.E ) return * Xx.P ;  \
    int E = Xx.E - Xx.B, P = Xx.P - Xx.B ;  \
    Xx.B = ( XxA ) realloc( Xx.B,  \
      ( ! E ? E = 9 : E *= 1.5 ) * Sz_Ptr );  \
    Xx.E = Xx.B + E ; Xx.P = Xx.B + P ;  \
    memset( Xx.P, 0, ( Xx.E - Xx.P ) * Sz_Ptr );  \
    return * Xx.P ; }  

// Recursive Quick Sort:

#define QSort_Def( QSort_Xx, XxA, XxP ) \
  void QSort_Xx ( XxA _B,  XxA _E ) { if ( _E <= _B ) return;  \
    XxA B = _B - 1, E = _E + 1 ;  float & Fr = ( * _B )->Pop;  \
    LOOP { while ( Fr < ( * ++ B )->Pop );  \
      while ( E >= B && Fr > ( * -- E )->Pop );  \
      if ( B > E ) break; \
      if ( ( * B )->Pop != ( * E )->Pop ) { \
         XxP T = * B ; * B = * E ; * E = T ; } } \
    QSort_Xx ( _B, E ); QSort_Xx ( E + 1, _E ); }

Here are some of my loop macros, which I might combine:

#define LoopSu( Su )  \
  SuA E = Su.P + 1, Arr = Su.B - 1 ;  SuP P = 0 ;  \
  if ( Su.B ) while ( P = * ++ Arr, Arr < E )

#define LoopEn  \
  EnA E = En.P + 1, Arr = En.B - 1 ;  EnP P = 0 ;  \
  if ( En.B ) while ( P = * ++ Arr, Arr < E )

#define LoopTr( Tr )  \
  TrA E = Tr.P + 1, Arr = Tr.B - 1 ;  TrP P = 0 ;  \
  if ( Tr.B ) while ( P = * ++ Arr, Arr < E )

Here are some of the data structures,
Notice the C++  ( not C )  usage of struct instead of typedef:

typedef char * LnP ;

typedef LnP * LnA ; struct LnT { LnA  B, P, E ; };

struct EntryT ;  typedef EntryT * EnP ;

struct SupporT { float Pop ;  EnP En ;  LnP Title ; };  

typedef SupporT * SuP ;  

typedef SuP * SuA ;  struct SuT { SuA B, P, E ; };

struct EntryT {  LnP ID ;  SuT Su ;  
  float Pop, Voice ;  int Votes ; };  

typedef EnP * EnA ;  struct EnT { EnA B, P, E ; };  EnT En ;

struct NodeT ;  typedef NodeT * TrP ;  typedef TrP * TrA ;  

struct TrT { TrA B, P, E ; };

struct NodeT { EnP En ;  LnA Ln ; 
  int Read, _B, _E, X, Lv, C ; TrP Mom; TrT Tr ; };

const int Sz_Ptr = sizeof LnP ;  
...............

As for excessive hiding  (  " Private "  identifiers ),
I don't do that because 
I'm experienced enough to expose everything.


0
Usenet_3_ (208)
9/29/2004 10:15:47 PM
Hi Curtis Bass,

You suggested:  " Relf's code is still utter crap. "

What was the last system you targeted ?

Using what language and IDE ?

When ?

How much were you paid ?


0
Usenet_3_ (208)
9/29/2004 10:22:03 PM
Hi Curtis Bass,

You imagined: <<

  It should _not_ take _years_ to build a decent news reader. >>

You're right, it takes decades  ( to build a  _ Good _  one ).

I think I begin coding X.CPP in May,
Sometimes I go weeks without putting in hours.
Sometimes I work on it just a few hours per week.
....And why not ?  X.CPP is my toy, not the cure for cancer.


0
Usenet_3_ (208)
9/29/2004 10:33:49 PM
Oops, I wrote: <<

  Some of X.CPP's output is shown here:

  news:_Jeff_Relf_2004_Sep_28_I3LV@Cotse.NET >>

Wrong link !

I'll just post that output here  ( data as of this post ):
......................
The Most Linked To/From.
Here are  _ The Most Linked To/From _
as X.EXE analyzed them using the last 2,000 messages.
( http://www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/X.CPP )

Absolutely no one was excluded from the analysis,
but  " handles "  are by:  User, Server and Newsreader.

The most-linked-to  ( the leftmost number )  is determined 
using a variant of Google's PageRank�.  For example:

  If a handle replied to 90 handles
  then each of it's  " votes "  ( direct replies )
  would initially be worth  1 / 90.

  At the end of an iteration,
  if, say, a handle received 2 votes worth: 1 / 50 and 1 / 25, 
  the value of it's votes would then be bumped to
  ( 1 + 1 / 50 + 1 / 25 ) / 90  for the next iteration.
  ...9 iterations were preformed.

Also shown is the most-linked-from  ( the sub number ),
and the title of their last direct reply.

168 Mike Cox, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.7.2
      16.4 Kari Laine, Giganews.COM, KNode/0.7.2
             Groklaw IBM, and the Linux astroturfers.        
      13.1 Mike Cox, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.7.2
             I'm a C++ programmer, and Relf's X.CPP is good. 
      10.4 Jeff Relf, Uni-Berlin.DE, X
             Money is truly irrelevant, if not plain abhorren
       8.1 Curtis Bass, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla/5.0
             Will Kerry Stop Linux from Taking Jobs?         
       7.3 Greg Copeland, Centurytel.NET, Pan/0.14.2.91
             I'm a C++ programmer, and Relf's X.CPP is good. 
       7.1 Johannes Bauer, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla
             Peter Kohlmann is not tolerant of others.       
       6.9 Donn Miller, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla/5.0
             Daddy, I'm hungry.                              
       6.8 Mark Crispin, Washington.EDU, 
             New computers every year?                       
       6.3 Liam Slider, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             I'm a C++ programmer, and Relf's X.CPP is good. 
       6.1 7, 93KQ Co.UK, KNode/0.7.2
             Daddy, I'm hungry.                              
       5.5 Rick, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             Daddy, I'm hungry.                              
       5.3 Stefaan A Eeckels, Ecc.LU, 
             I'm a C++ programmer, and Relf's X.CPP is good. 
       4.7 Rex Ballard, Google.COM, 
             Groklaw IBM, and the Linux astroturfers.        
       4.2 Roy Culley, Swissptt.CH, knews 1.0b.1
             Are you the author of PINE?                     
       3.6 Ian Hilliard, Sunrise.CH, Pan/0.14.2
             If you're a lazy-ass American.                  
       3.5 GreyCloud, Bresnan.COM, Mozilla/5.0
             I'm a C++ programmer, and Relf's X.CPP is good. 
       3.4 mlw, 93KQ Att.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             Those who exploit the "Begin" bug are crimminals
       2.7 Rapskat, Supernews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Peter Kohlmann is not tolerant of others.       
       2.7 B Gruff, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.7.7
             Those who exploit the "Begin" bug are crimminals
       2.7 Paul Hovnanian P.E, Supernews.COM, 
             The Trackball mouse IS supported in Linux.      
       2.7 Johan Ur Riise, 93KQ Nsc.NO, Gnus/5.09
             This is Cox's thread, except for a small bite th
       2.5 John Bailo, VH4W Earthlink.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             Daddy, Your Fired.                              
       2.0 alt, 93KQ Telus.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             As long as its not linux                        
       2.0 Hacking Coff, Adelphia.COM, Mozilla
             Migrating from Linux to Windows.                
       1.9 William Poaster, Giganews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Are you the author of PINE?                     
       1.5 Philip Callan, 93KQ Shaw.CA, Mozilla
             Are you the author of PINE?                     
       1.4 Sinister Midget, 93KQ Rr.COM, Outhouse Excess
             Daddy, I'm hungry.                              
       1.4 General Protection, 93KQ Shaw.CA, slrn/0.9.8.0
             If you're a lazy-ass American.                  
       1.3 Lin�nut, Comcast.COM, Outlook 5.5
             I'm a C++ programmer, and Relf's X.CPP is good. 
       1.3 Kaz Kylheku, Google.COM, 
             I'm a C++ programmer, and Relf's X.CPP is good. 
       1.2 Robert M. Stockmann, Xs4all.NL, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Open Office looks ugly.                         
       1.0 jjj, 9Jfe Gnilink.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             I'm a C++ programmer, and Relf's X.CPP is good. 
       1.0 spike1@freenet.co.uk, Uni-Berlin.DE, tin/1.6.2
             Vigor. A clone of Clippy!?                      
       1.0 Free Code, Rr.COM, Pan/0.14.2
             Linux Advocacy is about putting other people dow
       1.0 Floyd L. Davidson, America.NET, gnus 5.10.6
             Mike Cox is a Troll  [was Re: Paul Graham vs. Je
       1.0 Cable Speed Test, Yvn.COM, 
             New computers every year?                       
       1.0 Eugene, Wideopenwest.COM, KNode/0.8.0
             Will Kerry Stop Linux from Taking Jobs?         
       1.0 Ian Amuhton, CTKo Rogers.COM, 
             Will Kerry Stop Linux from Taking Jobs?         
       1.0 Stephen J. Turnbull, Uni-Berlin.DE, Gnus/5.1006
             Fatal error (11).  Emacs/ Linux hosed my very lo
       1.0 BeeBop, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.8.0
             Those who exploit the "Begin" bug are crimminals
       1.0 Roy Culley, Swissptt.CH, 
             Mike Cox; Jeff Relf                             
       0.9 Richard Rasker, Dekooi.NL, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Migrating from Linux to Windows.                
       0.9 Johan Lindquist, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             If you're a lazy-ass American.                  
       0.8 A Nengineer, wKE3 Earthlink.NET, Mozilla
             Vigor. A clone of Clippy!?                      
       0.8 Mathew M, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Those who exploit the "Begin" bug are crimminals
       0.7 Rex Ballard, XWpK Nntpserver.COM, Mozilla
             Those who exploit the "Begin" bug are crimminals
       0.7 Robert Newson, 93KQ Co.UK, Mozilla/5.0
             Migrating from Linux to Windows.                
       0.7 Freeride, 93KQ Cox.NET, Pan/0.14.2
             Daddy, I'm hungry.                              
       0.7 ray, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.13.0
             Open Office looks ugly.                         
       0.6 JEDIDIAH, Comcast.COM, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Migrating from Linux to Windows.                
       0.5 Boyce, 93KQ Cox.NET, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Groklaw IBM, and the Linux astroturfers.        
       0.5 Gene, FFL6 Earthlink.NET, 
             New computers every year?                       
       0.5 Peter K�hlmann, T-Online.COM, KNode/0.8.0
             Mike Cox, idiotic troll                         
       0.5 Peter Hayes, Uni-Berlin.DE, MacSOUP/2.6.1
             Those who exploit the "Begin" bug are crimminals
       0.4 Jose Maria Lopez, Eresmas.COM, Mozilla
             Groklaw IBM, and the Linux astroturfers.        
       0.4 Screaming Balmer, Easynet.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             Migrating from Linux to Windows.                
       0.4 Ralph, Rcn.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             Those who exploit the "Begin" bug are crimminals
       0.3 Peter, Tsnz.NET, 
             Microsoft: To secure IE, upgrade to XP          
117 Jeff Relf, Uni-Berlin.DE, X
      18.8 John Bailo, VH4W Earthlink.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             Getting a copy of Visual Studio.NET.            
      16.5 Rick, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             Money is truly irrelevant, if not plain abhorren
      13.1 Mike Cox, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.7.2
             America's future.                               
       8.2 General Protection, 93KQ Shaw.CA, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Theoretical bugs in pre-released code.          
       7.3 John Bailo, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.7.7
             Google.Public.Support.General                   
       4.6 Donn Miller, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla/5.0
             Microsoft programmers are millionaires ?        
       3.6 Ian Hilliard, Sunrise.CH, Pan/0.14.2
             If you're a lazy-ass American.                  
       3.5 Kelsey Bjarnason, Rslnet.NET, Pan/0.14.2.91
             That's your  Theory, but I wrote X.CPP, not you.
       3.5 nobody@nowhere.nonet, Rr.COM, slrn/0.9.7.4
             Money is truly irrelevant, if not plain abhorren
       3.4 mlw, 93KQ Att.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             MLW is worried about his career ?               
       3.2 The Ghost In The, S1Hx Earthlink.NET, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Loop() is a fine piece of code.                 
       3.2 Rex Ballard, Google.COM, 
             You don't have to feed Bill Gates.              
       3.1 Timur Aydin, Giganews.COM, Gnus/5.110003
             I can't live without my Trackball Explorer.     
       2.7 Lin�nut, Comcast.COM, Outlook 5.5
             Something to think about, Johan.                
       2.0 Doc Jeff, Uni-Berlin.DE, Xnews/06.08.25
             Cotse.NET rules !                               
       2.0 Ray Ingles, Uu.NET, slrn/0.9.7.3
             More pressing issues.                           
       1.6 Curtis Bass, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla/5.0
             What was the last system you targeted ?         
       1.5 Fabrizio J, Google.COM, 
             Extend MS Windows, don't replace it.            
       1.5 Peter K�hlmann, T-Online.COM, KNode/0.8.0
             HTML is f_cked up, I hate it.                   
       1.3 John Bailo, ZOT4 Nntpserver.COM, KNode/0.7.7
             Google.Public.Support.General                   
       1.2 Kelsey Bjarnason, Silversapphire.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             I check results when I need too.                
       1.1 thundercleets, Google.COM, 
             Extend MS Windows, don't replace it.            
       1.0 Oxy-2-Chloroacetyl, Alt.NET, 
             Bailo has made it into the list.                
       1.0 Portulaca Phaea, Alt.NET, 
             More pressing issues.                           
       1.0 Rich Teer, 93KQ Shaw.CA, 
             Paul Graham vs. Jeff Relf ?                     
       1.0 Tom Shelton, Uswest.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             SupraNews news reader                           
       0.9 Phil Da Lick, Plus.NET, 
             Maybe you should emulate me.                    
       0.9 John Bailo, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla
             Google's  PageRank�__is_inadequate.             
       0.9 Liam Slider, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             The Most Popular Handles  ( and their supporters
       0.9 Johan Lindquist, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Something to think about, Johan.                
       0.6 Peter Jensen, Tele.DK, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Insulting others just makes people think less of
       0.4 Jose Maria Lopez, Eresmas.COM, Mozilla
             Is Mike Cox joking ?                            
       0.4 Lin�nut, Comcast.COM, slrn/0.9.8.0
             You don't have to feed Bill Gates.              
       0.3 M�ns_Rullg�rd, Uni-Berlin.DE, Gnus/5.1006
             I can't live without my Trackball Explorer.     
 92 DFS, Supernews.COM, 
      11.0 Rex Ballard, Google.COM, 
             Google Conforms to Chinese Censorship           
       8.8 Daeron, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             OO.o: How does it mangle thee?  Let me count the
       8.0 mlw, 93KQ Att.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             CSS quality at its finest                       
       7.6 kier, Uu.NET, Pan/0.14.2
             Here's where you Linux hall monitors can report 
       7.1 Johannes Bauer, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla
             CSS quality at its finest                       
       5.0 John Bailo, VH4W Earthlink.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       4.4 GreyCloud, Bresnan.COM, Mozilla/5.0
             OO.o: How does it mangle thee?  Let me count the
       4.0 The Ghost In The, S1Hx Earthlink.NET, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Google Conforms to Chinese Censorship           
       3.0 Rob Hughes, Comcast.COM, KNode/0.8.0
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       3.0 Chris Hall, Google.COM, 
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       2.7 Rapskat, Supernews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             More fun with braindead OO.o spreadsheet macro r
       2.7 Liam Slider, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             Critical OSS bug found after nearly 5 years: sca
       2.0 washer of kegs, T-Online.COM, KNode/0.7.7
             OO.o: How does it mangle thee?  Let me count the
       1.8 Chris H, Gradwell.NET, Mozilla
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       1.8 Forrest, Google.COM, 
             Open Office Basic vs. Excel VBA                 
       1.7 Bob Hauck, Adelphia.COM, slrn/0.9.8.0
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       1.6 Tony Lagasse, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       1.5 Philip Callan, 93KQ Shaw.CA, Mozilla
             CSS quality at its finest                       
       1.4 Hacking Coff, Adelphia.COM, Mozilla
             Open Office Basic vs. Excel VBA                 
       1.3 Edwin, tWxc Prodigy.COM, 
             Get the hint, Relf                              
       1.2 Jeff Relf, Uni-Berlin.DE, X
             Bailo has made it into the list.                
       1.1 thundercleets, Google.COM, 
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       1.1 Rick, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             OO.o: How does it mangle thee?  Let me count the
       1.0 Jij debiele, Alt.NET, 
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       0.9 John Bailo, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.7.7
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       0.9 Jose Maria Lopez, Eresmas.COM, Mozilla
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       0.9 Dariusz Kuli�ski, Ceti.PL, 40tude_Dialog/2
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       0.9 7, 93KQ Co.UK, KNode/0.7.2
             Open Office Basic vs. Excel VBA                 
       0.7 Rex Ballard, XWpK Nntpserver.COM, Mozilla
             mlw, where are you?                             
       0.7 Sinister Midget, 93KQ Rr.COM, Outhouse Excess
             Wintrolls - They acutally exist                 
       0.7 General Protection, 93KQ Shaw.CA, slrn/0.9.8.0
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       0.5 Peter K�hlmann, T-Online.COM, KNode/0.8.0
             As long as its not linux                        
       0.4 ray, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.13.0
             More fun with braindead OO.o spreadsheet macro r
 74 John Bailo, VH4W Earthlink.NET, KNode/0.7.7
      18.5 Jeff Relf, Uni-Berlin.DE, X
             More browser wars to come ?                     
       9.8 Miles Bader, Gol.COM, 
             Google -- A Stillborn Revolution                
       6.7 DFS, Supernews.COM, 
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       5.8 Luke Tulkas, Uni-Berlin.DE, 
             Google -- A Stillborn Revolution                
       4.7 Rex Ballard, Google.COM, 
             Take It To The Choir...                         
       4.1 B Gruff, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.7.7
             How to advocate Linux?                          
       3.3 Rick, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             Google -- A Stillborn Revolution                
       2.8 DFS, Supernews.COM, Microsoft
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       2.3 Donn Miller, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla/5.0
             Mike Cox; Jeff Relf                             
       2.0 Mark Crispin, Alt.NET, 
             Washington: An Import State                     
       1.8 Liam Slider, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             MSNBC article: Munich to approve Linux          
       1.8 Dariusz Kuli�ski, Ceti.PL, 40tude_Dialog/2
             DFS -- Mike Cox -- Inflitrators                 
       1.4 Tim Tyler, Ac.UK, 
             Google -- A Stillborn Revolution                
       1.3 John Bailo, VH4W Earthlink.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             Google -- A Stillborn Revolution                
       1.0 Peter K�hlmann, T-Online.COM, KNode/0.8.0
             Take It To The Choir...                         
       0.9 Forrest, Google.COM, 
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       0.9 Rick, Rr.COM, Pan/0.14.2
             Democracy vs. Republic                          
       0.7 Rex Ballard, XWpK Nntpserver.COM, Mozilla
             Google -- A Stillborn Revolution                
       0.7 Hacking Coff, Adelphia.COM, Mozilla
             Some helpful guidence - Re: As long as its not l
       0.5 Gene, FFL6 Earthlink.NET, 
             Washington: An Import State                     
       0.4 Jose Maria Lopez, Eresmas.COM, Mozilla
             Take It To The Choir...                         
       0.4 GreyCloud, Bresnan.COM, Mozilla/5.0
             GOOGLE PICKS GATES' BRAINS                      
       0.4 Craig Kelley, Usenetmonster.COM, Pan/0.14.2
             Getting a copy of Visual Studio.NET.            
       0.3 nobody@nowhere.nonet, Rr.COM, slrn/0.9.7.4
             Linux is a Poor Choice For A Desktop System.    
       0.3 Peter, Tsnz.NET, 
             Microsoft programmers are millionaires ?        
 60 Rick, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
       9.4 Edwin, tWxc Prodigy.COM, 
             Thoughts about The Begin Bug                    
       8.2 Kari Laine, Giganews.COM, KNode/0.7.2
             You don't have to feed Bill Gates.              
       8.1 Edwin, tWxc Prodigy.COM, Microsoft
             Money is truly irrelevant, if not plain abhorren
       5.8 Jeff Relf, Uni-Berlin.DE, X
             Money is truly irrelevant, if not plain abhorren
       2.2 DFS, Supernews.COM, 
             OO.o: How does it mangle thee?  Let me count the
       1.3 John Bailo, VH4W Earthlink.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             Online Linux updates?  Not if you want your syst
       1.0 Washupavu Wamchukue, Alt.NET, 
             Maybe you should emulate me.                    
       1.0 Wanaubadili, Alt.NET, 
             Thoughts about The Begin Bug                    
       1.0 Ng Suo Qu, Alt.NET, 
             Microsoft owns Linux.....                       
       1.0 Butyrivibrio, Alt.NET, 
             Google -- A Stillborn Revolution                
       1.0 Neritina Theileri, Dizum.COM, 
             Daddy, I'm hungry.                              
       1.0 Parachlamydia Esycha, Alt.NET, 
             Google -- A Stillborn Revolution                
       1.0 Unachukia Hujanijua, Dizum.COM, 
             Google -- A Stillborn Revolution                
       1.0 Wamemtendea, Alt.NET, 
             Those who exploit the "Begin" bug are crimminals
       1.0 Chilopsis, Alt.NET, 
             I don't give a sh_t about the money.            
       1.0 Staphylococcus, Alt.NET, 
             If Peter Jensen had any sanity.                 
       1.0 Notopeplum, Alt.NET, 
             If Peter Jensen had any sanity.                 
       1.0 Kasif al-Amin, Alt.NET, 
             Maybe you should emulate me.                    
       1.0 Jeremiah Hakelberg, Alt.NET, 
             Help me replace some Windows installations      
       1.0 Impendezayo, Alt.NET, 
             Thoughts about The Begin Bug                    
       1.0 Chao Cao Tai, Alt.NET, 
             Open Office looks ugly.                         
       1.0 Diethyl-2-2-1-3, Alt.NET, 
             Just signed up for a Slackware subscription.    
       1.0 Desulfonispora, Alt.NET, 
             The "begin bug" is not a bug  [was Re: No Linux 
       1.0 Kuwakubali Atawaokoa, Alt.NET, 
             I have a dim-witted stalker...                  
       1.0 Ksitipuruhuta, Alt.NET, 
             OO.o: How does it mangle thee?  Let me count the
       1.0 Kadaitcha Man, Dizum.COM, 
             I have a dim-witted stalker...                  
       1.0 Roy Culley, Swissptt.CH, 
             Mike Cox; Jeff Relf                             
       0.8 The Ghost In The, S1Hx Earthlink.NET, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Those who exploit the "Begin" bug are crimminals
       0.7 Martin O'Brien, Alt.NET, 
             It seems my stalker is a coward                 
       0.6 William Poaster, Giganews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             If Peter Jensen had any sanity.                 
       0.5 Peter K�hlmann, T-Online.COM, KNode/0.8.0
             Just signed up for a Slackware subscription.    
       0.4 Lin�nut, Comcast.COM, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Online Linux updates?  Not if you want your syst
 56 Johannes Bauer, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla
       7.8 Sanjeev Kumar, Google.COM, 
             Free SMTP Server                                
       4.0 Edwin, tWxc Prodigy.COM, 
             Thoughts about The Begin Bug                    
       3.5 Jeff Relf, Uni-Berlin.DE, X
             Mike Cox is now the top troll.                  
       2.4 The Ghost In The, S1Hx Earthlink.NET, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Windows is for experts                          
       2.3 SunnyB, 93KQ Usenetserver.COM, Forte Agent 20
             _YOU_MIGHT_BE_AN_IE_USER,_IF…                 
       2.2 Nigel Feltham, Uu.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             SCO are bluffing says Aussie Unix veteran       
       1.8 Abdullah Ramazanoglu, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Certain Linux "Advocates" Spell DOOM for Linux  
       1.8 Daeron, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             OO.o: How does it mangle thee?  Let me count the
       1.7 Daniel Tryba, Tue.NL, tin/1.5.11
             Fools: Linux will never win the desktop.        
       1.7 Simon, Google.COM, 
             Thoughts about The Begin Bug                    
       1.7 William Poaster, Giganews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Linux violates 283 U.S. software patents        
       1.6 A Nengineer, wKE3 Earthlink.NET, Mozilla
             Windows is for experts                          
       1.6 Aquila Deus, Google.COM, 
             Cussing statistics                              
       1.6 Rex Ballard, Google.COM, 
             Open Office Basic vs. Excel VBA                 
       1.6 Tony Lagasse, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Cussing statistics                              
       1.4 Hacking Coff, Adelphia.COM, Mozilla
             Cussing statistics                              
       1.3 Lin�nut, Comcast.COM, Outlook 5.5
             Fools: Linux will never win the desktop.        
       1.3 Johan Lindquist, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Open Office Basic vs. Excel VBA                 
       1.3 Lin�nut, Comcast.COM, slrn/0.9.8.0
             OO.o: How does it mangle thee?  Let me count the
       1.1 Hamilcar Barca, Newsreader.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Cussing statistics                              
       1.0 Phil Da Lick, Plus.NET, Microsoft
             I assume it's their fault.                      
       1.0 chrisv, Giganews.COM, Forte Agent 1
             I assume it's their fault.                      
       1.0 Roy Culley, Swissptt.CH, 
             Friday~1 the thirteenth borks Primary Domain Con
       0.9 Kadaitcha Man, Alt.NET, 
             Online Linux updates?  Not if you want your syst
       0.9 Rapskat, Supernews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Windows is for experts                          
       0.9 Liam Slider, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             Wintrolls - They acutally exist                 
       0.9 7, 93KQ Co.UK, KNode/0.7.2
             Windows is for experts                          
       0.8 Johannes Bauer, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla
             Mike Cox. A clone of Clippy!?                   
       0.7 Sinister Midget, 93KQ Rr.COM, Outhouse Excess
             Cussing statistics                              
       0.7 S.Heenan, 93KQ Shaw.CA, 
             Wintrolls - They acutally exist                 
       0.7 General Protection, 93KQ Shaw.CA, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Windows is for experts                          
       0.6 nobody@nowhere.nonet, Rr.COM, slrn/0.9.7.4
             This thread is best viewed with...              
       0.6 Peter Jensen, Tele.DK, slrn/0.9.8.0
             This has got to be the most topic changes in a t
       0.5 Peter K�hlmann, T-Online.COM, KNode/0.8.0
             Cussing statistics                              
       0.4 Ralph, Rcn.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             As long as its not linux which I can't use prope
 45 Sinister Midget, 93KQ Rr.COM, Outhouse Excess
       9.0 DFS, Supernews.COM, 
             Google Conforms to Chinese Censorship           
       6.3 Tony Lagasse, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       5.7 Ralph, Rcn.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             Thoughts about The Begin Bug                    
       3.2 Steve Glenn, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             Thoughts about The Begin Bug                    
       2.0 Rich Bell, u7Yy Prodigy.COM, 
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       1.9 William Poaster, Giganews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Google Conforms to Chinese Censorship           
       1.8 Daeron, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Munich Set to Approve Linux Despite Patent Worri
       1.6 Martin O'Brien, Uni-Berlin.DE, 
             Import taxes for MS-products                    
       1.6 CJT, Yj8w Prodigy.COM, Mozilla/5.0
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       1.3 John Bailo, VH4W Earthlink.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             Google Conforms to Chinese Censorship           
       1.0 Cameron Zemek, Com.AU, Mozilla
             Future of Open Source Programming               
       1.0 Rex Ballard, Alt.NET, 
             Download Time Remaining stupidity               
       0.9 Abdullah Ramazanoglu, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Microsoft: To secure IE, upgrade to XP          
       0.9 Rapskat, Supernews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Daddy, I'm hungry.                              
       0.9 7, 93KQ Co.UK, KNode/0.7.2
             A hopeful sign                                  
       0.8 Johannes Bauer, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla
             Cussing statistics                              
       0.7 Sinister Midget, 93KQ Rr.COM, Outhouse Excess
             Google Conforms to Chinese Censorship           
       0.7 S.Heenan, 93KQ Shaw.CA, 
             Who or what is flatfish?                        
       0.6 chrisv, Giganews.COM, 
             Microsoft: To secure IE, upgrade to XP          
       0.5 Hamilcar Barca, Newsreader.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Thoughts about The Begin Bug                    
       0.5 Peter K�hlmann, T-Online.COM, KNode/0.8.0
             Thoughts about The Begin Bug                    
       0.4 Johan Lindquist, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Thoughts about The Begin Bug                    
       0.4 Lin�nut, Comcast.COM, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Who or what is flatfish?                        
       0.3 Paul Cooke, 93KQ Co.UK, KNode/0.7.7
             Five Things About Windows Servers That Annoy Me 
 44 DFS, Supernews.COM, Microsoft
       6.1 GreyCloud, Bresnan.COM, Mozilla/5.0
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       5.4 Dariusz Kuli�ski, Ceti.PL, 40tude_Dialog/2
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       5.3 Daeron, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             See the OO.o Mangler macro: before and after    
       4.8 John Bailo, VH4W Earthlink.NET, Microsoft
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       3.8 John Bailo, VH4W Earthlink.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       3.7 Rapskat, Supernews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             See OO.o mangle a Word .doc                     
       1.8 Chris H, Gradwell.NET, Mozilla
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       1.8 John Bailo, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.7.7
             Industry veterans bet on open-source model      
       1.6 Johannes Bauer, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla
             Linux violates 283 U.S. software patents        
       1.5 Philip Callan, 93KQ Shaw.CA, Mozilla
             The GLAT: Google Labs Aptitude Test             
       1.4 Rex Ballard, XWpK Nntpserver.COM, Mozilla
             See the OO.o Mangler macro: before and after    
       1.2 Greg Copeland, Centurytel.NET, Pan/0.14.2.91
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       1.1 mlw, 93KQ Att.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             Linux violates 283 U.S. software patents        
       1.0 Spare Change, VH4W Earthlink.NET, Microsoft
             The GLAT: Google Labs Aptitude Test             
       0.9 Kadaitcha Man, Alt.NET, 
             OSS quality at its finest                       
       0.7 Hacking Coff, Adelphia.COM, Mozilla
             See OO.o mangle a Word .doc                     
       0.6 The Savage, Plus.NET, KNode/0.7.7
             See OO.o mangle a Word .doc                     
       0.4 Ralph, Rcn.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             Industry veterans bet on open-source model      
       0.3 Paul Cooke, 93KQ Co.UK, KNode/0.7.7
             See OO.o mangle a Word .doc                     
 43 General Protection, 93KQ Shaw.CA, slrn/0.9.8.0
      11.5 Jeff Relf, Uni-Berlin.DE, X
             Money is truly irrelevant, if not plain abhorren
       6.5 Mike Cox, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.7.2
             If you're a lazy-ass American.                  
       3.7 Greg Copeland, Centurytel.NET, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Linux                                           
       2.3 mlw, 93KQ Att.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             Linux                                           
       2.2 DFS, Supernews.COM, 
             Get the hint, Relf                              
       1.8 Ian Hilliard, Sunrise.CH, Pan/0.14.2
             If you're a lazy-ass American.                  
       1.8 Daeron, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Hackers and PC pioneers                         
       1.3 Edwin, tWxc Prodigy.COM, 
             Just signed up for a Slackware subscription.    
       1.1 Rick, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             Money is truly irrelevant, if not plain abhorren
       0.9 Abdullah Ramazanoglu, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Microsoft: To secure IE, upgrade to XP          
       0.9 Jose Maria Lopez, Eresmas.COM, Mozilla
             Open Office looks ugly.                         
       0.9 GreyCloud, Bresnan.COM, Mozilla/5.0
             Just signed up for a Slackware subscription.    
       0.8 Bob Hauck, Adelphia.COM, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Windows is for experts                          
       0.8 Ralph, Rcn.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             Sun and Brand X Open Source                     
       0.8 Jim Richardson, 93KQ Att.NET, slrn/0.9.8.0
             The pointer returned from realloc().            
       0.7 Philip Callan, 93KQ Shaw.CA, Mozilla
             Daddy, I'm hungry.                              
       0.7 Rex Ballard, XWpK Nntpserver.COM, Mozilla
             Just signed up for a Slackware subscription.    
       0.7 General Protection, 93KQ Shaw.CA, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Windows is for experts                          
       0.6 nobody@nowhere.nonet, Rr.COM, slrn/0.9.7.4
             The pointer returned from realloc().            
       0.5 John Bailo, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla
             Money is truly irrelevant, if not plain abhorren
       0.4 Johan Lindquist, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             If you're a lazy-ass American.                  
       0.4 Craig Kelley, Usenetmonster.COM, Pan/0.14.2
             EU ruling will violate trade secrets            
       0.3 William Poaster, Giganews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Just signed up for a Slackware subscription.    
       0.2 Martin O'Brien, Alt.NET, 
             Theoretical bugs in pre-released code.          
 41 Daeron, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
       4.7 Tony Lagasse, Uni-Berlin.DE, slrn/0.9.8.0
             EDS joins the mainframe migration alliance      
       4.5 DFS, Supernews.COM, 
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       4.1 DFS, Supernews.COM, Microsoft
             Industry veterans bet on open-source model      
       3.4 Jim Trice, Uni-Berlin.DE, KNode/0.7.7
             EDS joins the mainframe migration alliance      
       3.2 Rex Ballard, Google.COM, 
             Friday~1 the thirteenth borks Primary Domain Con
       2.8 Rex Ballard, XWpK Nntpserver.COM, Mozilla
             EDS joins the mainframe migration alliance      
       1.9 Peter, Tsnz.NET, Forte Free
             Aussie gov want anti-Linux litigation protection
       1.7 7, 93KQ Co.UK, KNode/0.7.2
             Linux, the pirate's friend, says Gartner        
       1.6 Aftab Moshoo Bong, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       1.6 Johannes Bauer, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla
             SCO are bluffing says Aussie Unix veteran       
       1.5 Craig Kelley, Usenetmonster.COM, Pan/0.14.2
             Linux, the pirate's friend, says Gartner        
       1.4 General Protection, 93KQ Shaw.CA, slrn/0.9.8.0
             Sun and Brand X Open Source                     
       1.2 Greg Copeland, Centurytel.NET, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Reverse Migration: From Linux to Windows        
       1.0 Rich Gibbs, His.COM, Mozilla
             Linux, the pirate's friend, says Gartner        
       0.9 Abdullah Ramazanoglu, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.14.2.91
             The best way to move to a Linux desktop         
       0.9 Rapskat, Supernews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Friday~1 the thirteenth borks Primary Domain Con
       0.9 Screaming Balmer, Easynet.NET, KNode/0.7.6
             free is stifling Linux penetration says director
       0.5 Hamilcar Barca, Newsreader.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             Trojan horse exploits image flaw                
       0.5 Peter, Tsnz.NET, 
             free is stifling Linux penetration says director
       0.5 John Bailo, Uni-Berlin.DE, Mozilla
             Linux, the pirate's friend, says Gartner        
       0.4 Jose Maria Lopez, Eresmas.COM, Mozilla
             SCO are bluffing says Aussie Unix veteran       
       0.3 William Poaster, Giganews.COM, Pan/0.14.2.91
             OpenOffice.org on Windows: memory hog and slow  
       0.2 ray, Uni-Berlin.DE, Pan/0.13.0
             Aussie gov want anti-Linux litigation protection


0
Usenet_3_ (208)
9/29/2004 10:53:22 PM
Hi Phil Da Lick,

You asked me:
  " Exactly why you are a bad  ( collaborative )  programmer ? "

I'm a bad  ( insert whatever here )  programmer
because my skills are different from yours... big deal.

If you really wanted to understand my X.CPP
I could certainly explain it to you.

X is just  _ My _  toy,
it wasn't designed with you  ( whoever you are )  in mind.


0
Usenet_3_ (208)
9/30/2004 9:47:01 PM
Hi General Protection Fault,

You wrote: <<

  Jeff, if you're not being paid, 
  you're not a professional programmer. >>

I am being paid.

I just work very few hours, that's all.
( And that's the way I like it )

By the way, GPF, you claim I'm not even a programmer, right ?

How about you follow my lead then...

Show me your code, GPF.


0
Usenet_3_ (208)
9/30/2004 9:54:42 PM
Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Arrrh.  I'm getting very upset.  My goal is to get the longest threads
> going, and if they change topics, it cuts down on the length.

No it doesn't.
Unless you're moronic enough to have your newsreader set to only thread by
subject rather than references... 

Oh... of course... sorry... forgot it was you...
0
spike1 (8171)
10/1/2004 12:01:05 PM
Stefaan A Eeckels <tengo@deletemeecc.lu> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:46:37 -0700
> Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> I've developed my hm command (pronounced "home")*, I've modified a Linux
>> kernel mouse driver* to support Microsoft Wireless Optical mice with
>> tilt wheel technology. I use emacs and extend it with LISP. I know my
>> stuff. And with this authority, I have to say that I see nothing wrong
>> with Jeff Relf's X.CPP. 

> <snip drivel>

>> 1. Do a groups.google search for the code to both my mouse driver
>> modification and my "hm" command.

> I don't know why you wrote 'hm', as the 'cd' command without
> parameters will take you back to your home dir :-).

Ahhh, but his was "special". It was a really nasty hack to attempt to change
the directory of the controlling shell, not the one used by the called
script. (IIRC)

> Now to the real shocker - your command doesn't work. Worse, it 
> cannot work, as you're trying to change the state of the shell
> through an external command. There's no way to achieve what you
> want to do through a process (which is why cd is a shell built-in,
> and not a command). 

Aye, this was all explained to him when he first posted the idea.
He spawned a huge argumentitive thread mostly disparaging linux that time
too.
0
spike1 (8171)
10/1/2004 12:06:52 PM
begin  On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:01:05 +0100, spike1 wrote:

> Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Arrrh.  I'm getting very upset.  My goal is to get the longest threads
>> going, and if they change topics, it cuts down on the length.
> 
> No it doesn't.
> Unless you're moronic enough to have your newsreader set to only thread by
> subject rather than references...
> 
> Oh... of course... sorry... forgot it was you...

LOL!

-- 
Stupidity is the only universal capital crime.
There is no appeal, and execution is carried 
out by the stupid person himself.
- Robert A. Heinlein -
0
willpoast (5106)
10/1/2004 12:40:33 PM
Liam Slider <liam@nospam.liamslider.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:59:08 -0500, Greg Copeland wrote:

>> Actually, there was.
> <snip>

> I mean a *real* microkernel fad. As in a fad for the real use of actual
> microkernel architecture. Never was such a thing, ever.

Oh, you mean... like HURD?!
heheh, whatever happened to that eh? Still probably won't run on 90% of
hardware successfully. And it's been in development for how long? 
(Longer than linux iirc)
0
spike1 (8171)
10/1/2004 2:20:55 PM
Jeff Relf wrote:

> Hi Curtis Bass,
> 
> You suggested:  " Relf's code is still utter crap. "

No, I _asserted_ that it is.  And it is.

> What was the last system you targeted ?

PeopleSoft on NT/2K and AIX, Oracle on the back end.

> Using what language and IDE ?

PeopleTools, PeopleCode, SQR, SQL

> When ?

As I type.

> How much were you paid ?

A lot.

BTW, it's considered poor taste to discuss how much people make, but 
then, we are dealing with you, aren't we?


-- 
Curtis Bass             "Google is irrelevant"
Technical Consultant    Dave Tholen -- 09/18/2004
0
cmbass_us (544)
10/5/2004 6:19:31 PM
Curtis Bass <cmbass_us@yahoo.com> wrote:

>A lot.

*plonk*  for troll feeding.

0
chrisv (22840)
10/5/2004 8:27:08 PM
Reply: