I have an ubuntu install that might be a month old.  Although I thought 
to have saved my data, I see to have lost more of perl capability than I 
wanted to.  (There's a lot of things on this install that are a little 
wonky still.)

So I'm looking at advice on this page:

http://perl.about.com/od/packagesmodules/qt/perlcpan.htm

So this script uses News::NNTPClient and can't find it yet, although 
I've tried a few times:

$ perl jabba8.pl
Can't locate News/NNTPClient.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl 
/usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 
/usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 
/usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at jabba8.pl line 5.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at jabba8.pl line 5.
$  perl -MCPAN -e shell
Sorry, we have to rerun the configuration dialog for CPAN.pm due to
some missing parameters...



The following questions are intended to help you with the
configuration. The CPAN module needs a directory of its own to cache
important index files and maybe keep a temporary mirror of CPAN files.
This may be a site-wide or a personal directory.



I see you already have a  directory
     /home/dan/.cpan
Shall we use it as the general CPAN build and cache directory?

....

So there's maybe 15 questions that I hit either enter or gave an fto 
site to.

I think I get files from this remote location:


Please enter the URL of your CPAN mirror 
ftp://ftp.mpi-inf.mpg.de/pub/perl/CPAN/
Configuration does not allow connecting to the internet.
Current set of CPAN URLs:
   ftp://ftp.mpi-inf.mpg.de/pub/perl/CPAN/
Enter another URL or RETURN to quit: []
New urllist
   ftp://ftp.mpi-inf.mpg.de/pub/perl/CPAN/


Please remember to call 'o conf commit' to make the config permanent!


cpan shell -- CPAN exploration and modules installation (v1.9402)
Enter 'h' for help.

cpan[1]> o conf commit
commit: wrote '/home/dan/.cpan/CPAN/MyConfig.pm'

cpan[2]> install News::NNTPClient
CPAN: Storable loaded ok (v2.20)
Going to read '/home/dan/.cpan/Metadata'
   Database was generated on Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:27:15 GMT
Running install for module 'News::NNTPClient'
CPAN: Data::Dumper loaded ok (v2.124)
'YAML' not installed, falling back to Data::Dumper and Storable to read

....

Do they mean python yaml?  I could swear I installed that last night.

[big snip here]

At the end, this is what I have:

persistent state
Running make install
Prepending /home/dan/.cpan/build/NNTPClient-0.37-d_s_Cg/blib/arch 
/home/dan/.cpan/build/NNTPClient-0.37-d_s_Cg/blib/lib to PERL5LIB for 
'install'
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ERROR: Can't create '/usr/local/man/man3'
mkdir /usr/local/man/man3: Permission denied at 
/usr/share/perl/5.10/ExtUtils/Install.pm line 483

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  at -e line 1
make: *** [pure_site_install] Error 13
   RVA/NNTPClient-0.37.tar.gz
   make install  -- NOT OK
Warning (usually harmless): 'YAML' not installed, will not store 
persistent state
Failed during this command:
  RVA/NNTPClient-0.37.tar.gz                   : install NO

cpan[3]>

Any ideas how I proceed?
-- 
Uno

On 2011-03-25, Uno <Uno@example.invalid> wrote:
> I have an ubuntu install that might be a month old.

[snip]

> Any ideas how I proceed?

This is not a shell question.  Use comp.lang.perl.misc, one of the
generic linux groups, or a more specific ubuntu area.

--keith

-- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:12:29 -0600, Uno wrote:

> I have an ubuntu install that might be a month old.  Although I thought
> to have saved my data, I see to have lost more of perl capability than I
> wanted to.  (There's a lot of things on this install that are a little
> wonky still.)
> 
> So I'm looking at advice on this page:
> 
> http://perl.about.com/od/packagesmodules/qt/perlcpan.htm
> 
> So this script uses News::NNTPClient and can't find it yet, although
> I've tried a few times:
> 
> $ perl jabba8.pl
> Can't locate News/NNTPClient.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl
> /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5
> /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10
> /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at jabba8.pl line 5. BEGIN
> failed--compilation aborted at jabba8.pl line 5. $  perl -MCPAN -e shell
> Sorry, we have to rerun the configuration dialog for CPAN.pm due to some
> missing parameters...
> 
> 
> 
> The following questions are intended to help you with the configuration.
> The CPAN module needs a directory of its own to cache important index
> files and maybe keep a temporary mirror of CPAN files. This may be a
> site-wide or a personal directory.
> 
> 
> 
> I see you already have a  directory
>      /home/dan/.cpan
> Shall we use it as the general CPAN build and cache directory?
> 
> ...
> 
> So there's maybe 15 questions that I hit either enter or gave an fto
> site to.
> 
> I think I get files from this remote location:
> 
> 
> Please enter the URL of your CPAN mirror
> ftp://ftp.mpi-inf.mpg.de/pub/perl/CPAN/ Configuration does not allow
> connecting to the internet. Current set of CPAN URLs:
>    ftp://ftp.mpi-inf.mpg.de/pub/perl/CPAN/
> Enter another URL or RETURN to quit: [] New urllist
>    ftp://ftp.mpi-inf.mpg.de/pub/perl/CPAN/
> 
> 
> Please remember to call 'o conf commit' to make the config permanent!
> 
> 
> cpan shell -- CPAN exploration and modules installation (v1.9402) Enter
> 'h' for help.
> 
> cpan[1]> o conf commit
> commit: wrote '/home/dan/.cpan/CPAN/MyConfig.pm'
> 
> cpan[2]> install News::NNTPClient
> CPAN: Storable loaded ok (v2.20)
> Going to read '/home/dan/.cpan/Metadata'
>    Database was generated on Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:27:15 GMT
> Running install for module 'News::NNTPClient' CPAN: Data::Dumper loaded
> ok (v2.124) 'YAML' not installed, falling back to Data::Dumper and
> Storable to read
> 
> ...
> 
> Do they mean python yaml?  I could swear I installed that last night.
> 
> [big snip here]
> 
> At the end, this is what I have:
> 
> persistent state
> Running make install
> Prepending /home/dan/.cpan/build/NNTPClient-0.37-d_s_Cg/blib/arch
> /home/dan/.cpan/build/NNTPClient-0.37-d_s_Cg/blib/lib to PERL5LIB for
> 'install'
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ERROR: Can't create '/usr/local/man/man3' mkdir /usr/local/man/man3:
> Permission denied at /usr/share/perl/5.10/ExtUtils/Install.pm line 483
> 
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

check this out !
i guess you have to use sudo

or check for ACL/EA on that dir.

>   at -e line 1
> make: *** [pure_site_install] Error 13
>    RVA/NNTPClient-0.37.tar.gz
>    make install  -- NOT OK
> Warning (usually harmless): 'YAML' not installed, will not store
> persistent state
> Failed during this command:
>   RVA/NNTPClient-0.37.tar.gz                   : install NO
> 
> cpan[3]>
> 
> Any ideas how I proceed?

On 03/25/2011 01:39 PM, goarilla wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:12:29 -0600, Uno wrote:

>> 'install'
>> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> ERROR: Can't create '/usr/local/man/man3' mkdir /usr/local/man/man3:
>> Permission denied at /usr/share/perl/5.10/ExtUtils/Install.pm line 483
>>
>> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> check this out !
> i guess you have to use sudo
>
> or check for ACL/EA on that dir.

Thanks, g, I had a few different theories going on in my head and 
bounced them off my sysadmin friend, and he said exactly what you did.

What maybe confused me was that I just happened to look at the files in 
my /usr/share/man directory and knew that ./man3 already existed, indeed 
was among the youngest files in that directory.

999454 0755      2     root     root    61440 Tue Mar 22 17:08:00 2011 
/usr/share/man/man1
999456 0755      2     root     root   110592 Tue Mar 22 17:08:00 2011 
/usr/share/man/man3
999461 0755      2     root     root    28672 Sat Mar 12 17:09:52 2011 
/usr/share/man/man8
999460 0755      2     root     root    12288 Fri Mar 11 17:44:05 2011 
/usr/share/man/man7
999457 0755      2     root     root     4096 Fri Mar 11 17:44:03 2011 
/usr/share/man/man4
999458 0755      2     root     root    12288 Fri Mar 11 17:43:57 2011 
/usr/share/man/man5

Was the script trying to create a directory there?

Successful install follows sig.
-- 
Uno


$ sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell

cpan shell -- CPAN exploration and modules installation (v1.9402)
Enter 'h' for help.

cpan[1]> install News::NNTPClient
CPAN: Storable loaded ok (v2.20)
Going to read '/home/dan/.cpan/Metadata'
   Database was generated on Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:27:15 GMT
CPAN: LWP::UserAgent loaded ok (v5.835)
CPAN: Time::HiRes loaded ok (v1.9719)
Fetching with LWP:
   ftp://ftp.mpi-inf.mpg.de/pub/perl/CPAN/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz
Going to read '/home/dan/.cpan/sources/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz'
CPAN: Compress::Zlib loaded ok (v2.02)
.............................................................................DONE
Fetching with LWP:
   ftp://ftp.mpi-inf.mpg.de/pub/perl/CPAN/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz
Going to read '/home/dan/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz'
   Database was generated on Sun, 27 Mar 2011 02:30:45 GMT
................
   New CPAN.pm version (v1.9600) available.
   [Currently running version is v1.9402]
   You might want to try
     install CPAN
     reload cpan
   to both upgrade CPAN.pm and run the new version without leaving
   the current session.


..............................................................DONE
Fetching with LWP:
   ftp://ftp.mpi-inf.mpg.de/pub/perl/CPAN/modules/03modlist.data.gz
Going to read '/home/dan/.cpan/sources/modules/03modlist.data.gz'
.............................................................................DONE
Going to write /home/dan/.cpan/Metadata
Running install for module 'News::NNTPClient'
CPAN: Data::Dumper loaded ok (v2.124)
'YAML' not installed, falling back to Data::Dumper and Storable to read 
prefs '/home/dan/.cpan/prefs'
Running make for R/RV/RVA/NNTPClient-0.37.tar.gz
CPAN: Digest::SHA loaded ok (v5.47)
Checksum for 
/home/dan/.cpan/sources/authors/id/R/RV/RVA/NNTPClient-0.37.tar.gz ok
Scanning cache /home/dan/.cpan/build for sizes
.............................................................................DONE
CPAN: Archive::Tar loaded ok (v1.52)
NNTPClient-0.37/
NNTPClient-0.37/Makefile.PL
NNTPClient-0.37/demos/
NNTPClient-0.37/demos/NNTPFetchProgress.pm
NNTPClient-0.37/demos/NNTPHuge.pm
NNTPClient-0.37/test.pl
NNTPClient-0.37/NNTPClient.pm
NNTPClient-0.37/README
NNTPClient-0.37/MANIFEST
CPAN: File::Temp loaded ok (v0.22)

   CPAN.pm: Going to build R/RV/RVA/NNTPClient-0.37.tar.gz

Checking if your kit is complete...
Looks good
Writing Makefile for News::NNTPClient
cp NNTPClient.pm blib/lib/News/NNTPClient.pm
Manifying blib/man3/News::NNTPClient.3pm
   RVA/NNTPClient-0.37.tar.gz
   make -- OK
Warning (usually harmless): 'YAML' not installed, will not store 
persistent state
Running make test
PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1 /usr/bin/perl "-Iblib/lib" "-Iblib/arch" test.pl
1..37
ok 1

     These tests are as much a test of your news server as they are a
     test of News::NNTPClient.  Not all of these tests will pass.

     The following tests rely on the existence of an available news
     server.  If the environment variable NNTPSERVER is not set, then
     "news" will be used.  If you don't have access to a news server,
     ok(), okprint(), code(), and postok() will fail.  postok() will
     also fail if you don't have permission to post.

News::NNTPClient: Bad hostname: news at test.pl line 36
ok 2 (version)
ok 3 (debug)
ok 4 (eol)
ok 5 (gmt)
ok 6 (fourdigityear)
ok 7 (message)
not ok 8 (code)
not ok 9 (ok)
not ok 10 (okprint)
not ok 11 (postok)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 43
not ok 12 (mode_reader)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 43
not ok 13 (list)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 43
not ok 14 (help)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 43
not ok 15 (slave)

     In addition to needing access to a news server, the following
     tests also rely on the existence and permission to post to the
     news group "test".

News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 57
not ok 16 (post)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 67
not ok 17 (group)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 71
not ok 18 (article)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 71
not ok 19 (body)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 71
not ok 20 (head)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 71
not ok 21 (last)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 71
not ok 22 (next)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 71
not ok 23 (stat)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 79
not ok 24 (newgroups)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 79
not ok 25 (newnews)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 88
not ok 26 (date)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 88
not ok 27 (listgroup)

     The following are all "extra" commands that may or may not be
     implemented on your server.  Those that are not implemented should
     show an NNTPERROR: 500

News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 102
not ok 28 (xpath )
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 106
not ok 29 (xgtitle)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 106
not ok 30 (xhdr)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 106
not ok 31 (xpat)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 106
not ok 32 (xover)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 106
not ok 33 (xmotd)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 106
not ok 34 (xthread)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 106
not ok 35 (xindex)
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at test.pl line 106
not ok 36 (xsearch)

     Remember, just because some tests failed doesn't mean that there
     is anything wrong with News::NNTPClient.  These tests also depend
     on the proper operation and implementation of your news server.
     For example, the XPATH command on my server does not seem to work
     anymore.

not ok 37 (quit)
   RVA/NNTPClient-0.37.tar.gz
   make test -- OK
Warning (usually harmless): 'YAML' not installed, will not store 
persistent state
Running make install
Prepending /home/dan/.cpan/build/NNTPClient-0.37-45fJew/blib/arch 
/home/dan/.cpan/build/NNTPClient-0.37-45fJew/blib/lib to PERL5LIB for 
'install'
Installing /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1/News/NNTPClient.pm
Installing /usr/local/man/man3/News::NNTPClient.3pm
Appending installation info to /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1/perllocal.pod
   RVA/NNTPClient-0.37.tar.gz
   make install  -- OK
Warning (usually harmless): 'YAML' not installed, will not store 
persistent state

cpan[2]>

On 03/24/2011 08:29 PM, Keith Keller wrote:

> This is not a shell question.  Use comp.lang.perl.misc, one of the
> generic linux groups, or a more specific ubuntu area.

The greater part of my misunderstanding is with *my* shell, which has, 
as a necessary tool, perl.  (I'm using perl to figure out my OS, among 
other things.)  I don't think I'm even close to OT with this.  Am I 
missing something here?

I still haven't quite gotten a minimal perl capability rolling yet. 
This is my latest effort:

$ perl jabba9.pl
News::NNTPClient: Bad hostname: news at jabba9.pl line 16
News::NNTPClient: News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 has been closed
  at jabba9.pl line 18
$ cat jabba9.pl
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use warnings;
use Net::NNTP ();
require News::NNTPClient;

use constant GROUP_NAME        => 'comp.lang.perl.misc';
my $server = 'News.Individual.NET';
use constant NNTP_DEBUG        => 0;

my $nntp = Net::NNTP->new($server, 'Debug' => NNTP_DEBUG) or die;
my $USER = 'mj19683';
my $PASS = '';

$nntp->authinfo($USER,$PASS) or die $!;
my $c = new News::NNTPClient;

foreach ($c->newnews($nntp, time - 3600)) {
       print $c->body($_);
}

__END__
$

How would I alter this to see output?
-- 
Uno

"Nuclear fallout: best reason yet to stay inside and drink beer."

On 2011-03-27, Uno <Uno@example.invalid> wrote:
> On 03/24/2011 08:29 PM, Keith Keller wrote:
>
>> This is not a shell question.  Use comp.lang.perl.misc, one of the
>> generic linux groups, or a more specific ubuntu area.
>
> The greater part of my misunderstanding is with *my* shell, which has, 
> as a necessary tool, perl.  (I'm using perl to figure out my OS, among 
> other things.)  I don't think I'm even close to OT with this.  Am I 
> missing something here?

Yes.  Perl is its own language, and is *not* directly related to any
shell.  Your Perl issue is completely and utterly unrelated to ksh,
bash, csh, tcsh, sh, zsh, or any other shell I'm forgetting.

Since you're writing Perl code, the most appropriate location for the
question is comp.lang.perl.misc.

If you have questions about using shell tools to figure out your OS,
those might be appropriate here.  But I'd suggest (again) that those
questions are better asked in a linux or ubuntu-specific group, since
those folks are more likely to know what's in your OS.

--keith


-- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

On 3/27/2011 12:29 AM, Keith Keller wrote:
> On 2011-03-27, Uno<Uno@example.invalid>  wrote:
>> On 03/24/2011 08:29 PM, Keith Keller wrote:
>>
>>> This is not a shell question.  Use comp.lang.perl.misc, one of the
>>> generic linux groups, or a more specific ubuntu area.
>>
>> The greater part of my misunderstanding is with *my* shell, which has,
>> as a necessary tool, perl.  (I'm using perl to figure out my OS, among
>> other things.)  I don't think I'm even close to OT with this.  Am I
>> missing something here?
>
> Yes.  Perl is its own language, and is *not* directly related to any
> shell.  Your Perl issue is completely and utterly unrelated to ksh,
> bash, csh, tcsh, sh, zsh, or any other shell I'm forgetting.
>
> Since you're writing Perl code, the most appropriate location for the
> question is comp.lang.perl.misc.

No.  I'd get slaughtered there.  That's why I'm elsewhere.
>
> If you have questions about using shell tools to figure out your OS,
> those might be appropriate here.  But I'd suggest (again) that those
> questions are better asked in a linux or ubuntu-specific group, since
> those folks are more likely to know what's in your OS.

How about tosh 2.0?  You snipped my perl, btw.
-- 
Uno

Uno <merrilljensen@q.com> writes:

> On 3/27/2011 12:29 AM, Keith Keller wrote:
> > Since you're writing Perl code, the most appropriate location for
> > the question is comp.lang.perl.misc.
>
> No.  I'd get slaughtered there.  That's why I'm elsewhere.

You still need to choose an elsewhere. This isn't a place to get help on
Perl.

-- 
 \        “Visitors are expected to complain at the office between the |
  `\                     hours of 9 and 11 a.m. daily.” —hotel, Athens |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

On 03/27/2011 06:44 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Uno<merrilljensen@q.com>  writes:
>
>> On 3/27/2011 12:29 AM, Keith Keller wrote:
>>> Since you're writing Perl code, the most appropriate location for
>>> the question is comp.lang.perl.misc.
>>
>> No.  I'd get slaughtered there.  That's why I'm elsewhere.
>
> You still need to choose an elsewhere. This isn't a place to get help on
> Perl.
>

How about now?  Now that I've had a dozen ankle-biters snip away the 
context?

So Ben, what was I talking about?
-- 
Uno

On 2011-03-27, Uno <merrilljensen@q.com> wrote:
> On 3/27/2011 12:29 AM, Keith Keller wrote:
>>
>> Since you're writing Perl code, the most appropriate location for the
>> question is comp.lang.perl.misc.
>
> No.  I'd get slaughtered there.  That's why I'm elsewhere.

You're getting slaughtered there for good reason.  You'll get
slaughtered even worse if you ask the same questions in places where
it's offtopic.

> You snipped my perl, btw.

Of course I did.  It's not on topic in comp.unix.shell.

--keith


-- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

In article <0d8568xs8c.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>,
Keith Keller  <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> net-copped:
>On 2011-03-27, Uno <merrilljensen@q.com> wrote:
>> On 3/27/2011 12:29 AM, Keith Keller wrote:
>>>
>>> Since you're writing Perl code, the most appropriate location for the
>>> question is comp.lang.perl.misc.
>>
>> No.  I'd get slaughtered there.  That's why I'm elsewhere.
>
>You're getting slaughtered there for good reason.  You'll get
>slaughtered even worse if you ask the same questions in places where
>it's offtopic.
>
>> You snipped my perl, btw.
>
>Of course I did.  It's not on topic in comp.unix.shell.
>
>--keith

Somebody needs a hobby.

-- 
(This discussion group is about C, ...)

Wrong.  It is only OCCASIONALLY a discussion group
about C; mostly, like most "discussion" groups, it is
off-topic Rorsharch [sic] revelations of the childhood
traumas of the participants...

On 2011-03-25, Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
> On 2011-03-25, Uno <Uno@example.invalid> wrote:

> This is not a shell question.

Note the person you're responding to.  I don't think he knows or cares.

At least he's stuck with the same posting name for a while now.  He used
to change it fairly frequently, presumably to get out of killfiles so people
would answer his questions.

-s
-- 
Copyright 2011, all wrongs reversed.  Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.

On 03/28/2011 03:56 PM, Seebs wrote:
> On 2011-03-25, Keith Keller<kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>  wrote:
>> On 2011-03-25, Uno<Uno@example.invalid>  wrote:
>
>> This is not a shell question.
>
> Note the person you're responding to.  I don't think he knows or cares.
>
> At least he's stuck with the same posting name for a while now.  He used
> to change it fairly frequently, presumably to get out of killfiles so people
> would answer his questions.

Having nothing to contribute and still being wrong.  I see you still got it.

The differences among shells is important in some contexts.  This ng is 
very much about unix too, of which perl is part and parcel.  Since I've 
been on unix for maybe 16 months now, I hear quite often--and rightly 
so--that my difficulties with perl actually belong in a unix group, 
which this is.

I find that the topics are correctly intermixed, and that a person can 
emphasize different aspects.  I'd like to look at these files to see 
what unix does when it saves a file:

[could only paste as quotation]
> 999454 0755      2     root     root    61440 Mon Mar 28 21:13:12 2011 /usr/share/man/man1
> 999456 0755      2     root     root   110592 Tue Mar 22 17:08:00 2011 /usr/share/man/man3
> 999461 0755      2     root     root    28672 Sat Mar 12 17:09:52 2011 /usr/share/man/man8
> 999460 0755      2     root     root    12288 Fri Mar 11 17:44:05 2011 /usr/share/man/man7
> 999457 0755      2     root     root     4096 Fri Mar 11 17:44:03 2011 /usr/share/man/man4
> 999458 0755      2     root     root    12288 Fri Mar 11 17:43:57 2011 /usr/share/man/man5
> 999653 0755      2     root     root     4096 Fri Mar 11 17:42:57 2011 /usr/share/man/fr/man8
> 1001029 0644      1     root     root     1053 Fri Mar  4 14:01:19 2011 /usr/share/man/man1/avahi-publish-service.1.gz
> 1001153 0644      1     root     root     1068 Fri Mar  4 14:01:19 2011 /usr/share/man/man1/avahi-browse-domains.1.gz
> 1001053 0644      1     root     root      431 Fri Mar  4 14:01:19 2011 /usr/share/man/man1/avahi-set-host-name.1.gz
> 1000999 0644      1     root     root     1053 Fri Mar  4 14:01:19 2011 /usr/share/man/man1/avahi-publish.1.gz
> 1001058 0644      1     root     root      621 Fri Mar  4 14:01:19 2011 /usr/share/man/man1/avahi-resolve.1.gz

Is the last thing unix has to do when saving a file is to go put the 
timestamp on the directory it altered?

Is it only the . directory?

You know, seebs, I honestly don't know why we can't along, but I find 
out time and again.
-- 
Uno

> $ perl lst -l /usr/share/man >text1
> $ cat lst
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> # lst - list sorted directory contents (depth first)
>
> use Getopt::Std;
> use File::Find;
> use File::stat;
> use User::pwent;
> use User::grent;
>
> getopts('lusrcmi')    			or die <<DEATH;
> Usage: $0 [-mucsril] [dirs ...]
>  or    $0 -i [-mucsrl] < filelist
>
> Input format:
>     -i  read pathnames from stdin
> Output format:
>     -l  long listing
> Sort on:
>     -m  use mtime (modify time) [DEFAULT]
>     -u  use atime (access time)
>     -c  use ctime (inode change time)
>     -s  use size for sorting
> Ordering:
>     -r  reverse sort
> NB: You may only use select one sorting option at a time.
> DEATH
>
> unless ($opt_i || @ARGV) { @ARGV = ('.') }
>
> if ($opt_c + $opt_u + $opt_s + $opt_m > 1) {
>     die "can only sort on one time or size";
> }
>
> $IDX = 'mtime';
> $IDX = 'atime' if $opt_u;
> $IDX = 'ctime' if $opt_c;
> $IDX = 'size'  if $opt_s;
>
> $TIME_IDX = $opt_s ? 'mtime' : $IDX;
>
> *name = *File::Find::name;  # forcibly import that variable
>
> # the $opt_i flag tricks wanted into taking
> # its filenames from ARGV instead of being
> # called from find.
>
> if ($opt_i) {
>      *name = *_;  # $name now alias for $_
>      while (<>) { chomp; &wanted; }   # ok, not stdin really
> }  else {
>     find(\&wanted, @ARGV);
> }
>
> # sort the files by their cached times, youngest first
> @skeys = sort { $time{$b} <=> $time{$a} } keys %time;
>
> # but flip the order if -r was supplied on command line
> @skeys = reverse @skeys if $opt_r;
>
> for (@skeys) {
>     unless ($opt_l) {  # emulate ls -l, except for permissions
>         print "$_\n";
>         next;
>     }
>     $now = localtime $stat{$_}->$TIME_IDX();
>     printf "%6d %04o %6d %8s %8s %8d %s %s\n",
>     	$stat{$_}->ino(),
>     	$stat{$_}->mode() & 07777,
>     	$stat{$_}->nlink(),
>     	user($stat{$_}->uid()),
>     	group($stat{$_}->gid()),
>     	$stat{$_}->size(),
>     	$now, $_;
> }
>
> # get stat info on the file, saving the desired
> # sort criterion (mtime, atime, ctime, or size)
> # in the %time hash indexed by filename.
> # if they want a long list, we have to save the
> # entire stat object in %stat.  yes, this is a
> # hash of objects
> sub wanted {
>     my $sb = stat($_);  # XXX: should be stat or lstat?
>     return unless $sb;
>     $time{$name} = $sb->$IDX();  # indirect method call
>     $stat{$name} = $sb if $opt_l;
> }
>
> # cache user number to name conversions
> sub user {
>     my $uid = shift;
>     $user{$uid} = getpwuid($uid)->name || "#$uid"
>         unless defined $user{$uid};
>     return $user{$uid};
> }
>
> # cache group number to name conversions
> sub group {
>     my $gid = shift;
>     $group{$gid} = getgrgid($gid)->name || "#$gid"
>         unless defined $group{$gid};
>     return $group{$gid};
> }
> $

On 03/27/2011 09:07 PM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article<0d8568xs8c.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>,
> Keith Keller<kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>  net-copped:
>> On 2011-03-27, Uno<merrilljensen@q.com>  wrote:
>>> On 3/27/2011 12:29 AM, Keith Keller wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Since you're writing Perl code, the most appropriate location for the
>>>> question is comp.lang.perl.misc.
>>>
>>> No.  I'd get slaughtered there.  That's why I'm elsewhere.
>>
>> You're getting slaughtered there for good reason.  You'll get
>> slaughtered even worse if you ask the same questions in places where
>> it's offtopic.

So was your advice to ask a question where I'd get slaughtered for just 
asking it?

and have you noticed that I often get "that's a unix matter."
>>
>>> You snipped my perl, btw.
>>
>> Of course I did.  It's not on topic in comp.unix.shell.
>>
>> --keith
>
> Somebody needs a hobby.
>

The ghost of CBFalconer lives.  I could see these usenet reactionary 
types on facebook.  Their status:

"The topic is the topic."
-- 
Uno

On 2011-03-29, Uno wrote:
....
> The differences among shells is important in some contexts.  This ng is 
> very much about unix too, of which perl is part and parcel.

   This is a Unix *shell* group; perl is not a shell. If you want a
   more general unix group, try comp.unix.questions (or some such).

>  Since I've been on unix for maybe 16 months now, I hear quite
> often--and rightly so--that my difficulties with perl actually
> belong in a unix group, which this is.

   Did you try comp.lang.perl? That would be the appropriate group to
   discuss perl.


-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, author           <http://shell.cfajohnson.com/>
   ===================================================================
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
   Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)

In article <2nk968-6lm.ln1@206-248-139-163.dsl.teksavvy.com>,
Chris F.A. Johnson <cfajohnson@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 2011-03-29, Uno wrote:
>...
>> The differences among shells is important in some contexts.  This ng is 
>> very much about unix too, of which perl is part and parcel.
>
>   This is a Unix *shell* group; perl is not a shell. If you want a
>   more general unix group, try comp.unix.questions (or some such).

I frequently use Perl as a shell.

-- 
Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
	by the wise as foolish,
	and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

"Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
>    Did you try comp.lang.perl? That would be the appropriate group to
>    discuss perl.

comp.lang.perl is dead; comp.lang.perl.misc is the place to ask.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

On 2011-03-29, Chris F.A. Johnson <cfajohnson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-29, Uno wrote:
>>  Since I've been on unix for maybe 16 months now, I hear quite
>> often--and rightly so--that my difficulties with perl actually
>> belong in a unix group, which this is.

>    Did you try comp.lang.perl? That would be the appropriate group to
>    discuss perl.

Uno is a muddy thinker, and probably does have some questions which are
really more about Unix than about perl.

The issue being that his reasoning past that is:

	* This belongs in a Unix group.
	* comp.unix.shell is a Unix group.
	* Therefore, this belongs in comp.unix.shell!

which is pretty much identical to:
	* We must do something.
	* This is something.
	* Therefore, we must do this!

He gets angry when you point out that he's incoherent, but it doesn't make
him start thinking, so the only thing I've found that's effective is to plonk
him.  Then when he changes his name again, plonk him again.

He has previously posted as:

	Phred Phungus <Phred@example.invalid> 
	frank <frank@example.invalid>

There may be others, those were the ones that were easy to identify.  "Uno"
has been:
	Uno <merrilljensen@q.com>
	Uno <Uno@example.invalid>

Oh, and now I remember the other reason he's plonked; in addition to more
general idiocy and a complete refusal to think, he's also got a history of
inexplicably misplaced bigotry; he once called me a "british turd" because:

	* Uno hates seebs.
	* Uno hates the British.
	* Therefore, seebs is British!

.... or at least, that's the closest I can come to an explanation.

-s
-- 
Copyright 2011, all wrongs reversed.  Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.

On 03/29/2011 01:09 PM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article<2nk968-6lm.ln1@206-248-139-163.dsl.teksavvy.com>,
> Chris F.A. Johnson<cfajohnson@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On 2011-03-29, Uno wrote:
>> ...
>>> The differences among shells is important in some contexts.  This ng is
>>> very much about unix too, of which perl is part and parcel.
>>
>>    This is a Unix *shell* group; perl is not a shell. If you want a
>>    more general unix group, try comp.unix.questions (or some such).
>
> I frequently use Perl as a shell.
>

Really?

I've been able to use perl for so many things recently that were 
previously unrealizable for me.  Oh hold on,

1) if anyone thinks unix is OT right about now, I'd like you to do me 
the courtesy of not responding to me.

Anyways, I see Keith downhill here.  Take a look at what he has to say.

Kenny, do you know what brand of eurotrash seebs is?
-- 
Uno

On 03/29/2011 04:11 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
> "Chris F.A. Johnson"<cfajohnson@gmail.com>  writes:
> [...]
>>     Did you try comp.lang.perl? That would be the appropriate group to
>>     discuss perl.
>
> comp.lang.perl is dead; comp.lang.perl.misc is the place to ask.
>

Is there a C model for what unix must do when a file is altered?

How 'bout them huskies?  Maybe that one was for chuck.
-- 
Uno

On 03/29/2011 07:03 PM, Seebs wrote:
> On 2011-03-29, Chris F.A. Johnson<cfajohnson@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On 2011-03-29, Uno wrote:
>>>   Since I've been on unix for maybe 16 months now, I hear quite
>>> often--and rightly so--that my difficulties with perl actually
>>> belong in a unix group, which this is.
>
>>     Did you try comp.lang.perl? That would be the appropriate group to
>>     discuss perl.
>
> Uno is a muddy thinker, and probably does have some questions which are
> really more about Unix than about perl.
>
> The issue being that his reasoning past that is:
>
> 	* This belongs in a Unix group.
> 	* comp.unix.shell is a Unix group.
> 	* Therefore, this belongs in comp.unix.shell!
>
> which is pretty much identical to:
> 	* We must do something.
> 	* This is something.
> 	* Therefore, we must do this!
>
> He gets angry when you point out that he's incoherent, but it doesn't make
> him start thinking, so the only thing I've found that's effective is to plonk
> him.  Then when he changes his name again, plonk him again.
>
> He has previously posted as:
>
> 	Phred Phungus<Phred@example.invalid>
> 	frank<frank@example.invalid>
>
> There may be others, those were the ones that were easy to identify.  "Uno"
> has been:
> 	Uno<merrilljensen@q.com>
> 	Uno<Uno@example.invalid>
>
> Oh, and now I remember the other reason he's plonked; in addition to more
> general idiocy and a complete refusal to think, he's also got a history of
> inexplicably misplaced bigotry; he once called me a "british turd" because:
>
> 	* Uno hates seebs.
> 	* Uno hates the British.
> 	* Therefore, seebs is British!
>
> ... or at least, that's the closest I can come to an explanation.
>
> -s


BTW, Peter, I got cpan configured and and note that you don't seem to be 
posting logically.  Maybe that bridge you live under is starting to drip 
too much.
-- 
Uno

In article <90pgokF5afU1@mid.individual.net>, Uno  <Uno@example.invalid> wrote:
....
>BTW, Peter, I got cpan configured and and note that you don't seem to be 
>posting logically.  Maybe that bridge you live under is starting to drip 
>too much.

Keep in mind that Seebs is a self-confessed lunatic.

-- 
One of the best lines I've heard lately:

    Obama could cure cancer tomorrow, and the Republicans would be
    complaining that he had ruined the pharmaceutical business.

(Heard on Stephanie Miller = but the sad thing is that there is an awful lot
of direct truth in it.  We've constructed an economy in which eliminating
cancer would be a horrible disaster.  There are many other such examples.)

On 04/15/2011 05:40 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article<90pgokF5afU1@mid.individual.net>, Uno<Uno@example.invalid>  wrote:
> ...
>> BTW, Peter, I got cpan configured and and note that you don't seem to be
>> posting logically.  Maybe that bridge you live under is starting to drip
>> too much.
>
> Keep in mind that Seebs is a self-confessed lunatic.
>

That part's clear, but what isn't to me is what turns people into chucky 
dolls when they've been on usenet long enough.  Is it a massive 
inferiority complex?

Btw, shared your sig on fb.
-- 
Uno