Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp
/Jorgen

Jorgen Moquist schrieb:
> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp
> /Jorgen

I did a live upgrade. Almost everything went fine.
After I rebooted into 5/08 I had fix an issues with 
system/filesystem/local (nothing bad, just a minor fault of 
live-upgrade). After this I logged out waited for the graphical login, 
and realized that I _still_ have to reenable nis/server and nis/client 
after the live-upgrade. No problem, just login on the console, I 
thought. Well, this didn't work, because after selecting command-line 
login, the command line login didn't allow me to login, as the console 
was something like "in use by another process" (probably the graphical 
login).

This issue is new to me. I worked around it by login into CDE as root - 
not a nice thing to do, but it worked to resolve my problem...

/ Thomas

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:49:40 +0200, Jorgen Moquist wrote:

> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp /Jorgen

They have a ridiculous website/system for downloading solaris.

Round and round in circles, rejecting one thing after another but they
they sure as fuck made sure they collected their "statistics" first.

What losers. 

And yes I am registered, I have been for a year now.


-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On Apr 17, 12:49 am, Jorgen Moquist
<jorgen.moqu...@n.o.s.p.a.m.plea.se> wrote:
> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp/Jorgen

Does anyone know if/when where will be a companion DVD for it?  The
old image will work, of course, but the completist in me wants the new
onw :-)

On Apr 17, 10:47 am, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:

>
> They have a ridiculous website/system for downloading solaris.
>

Sun haven't really understood the whole "interweb" thing yet.  Give
them time: at least this time they allow you to download the image in
one chunk!

On Apr 17, 3:49 am, Tim Bradshaw <tfb+goo...@tfeb.org> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 10:47 am, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
> > They have a ridiculous website/system for downloading solaris.
Indeed
> Sun haven't really understood the whole "interweb" thing yet.  Give
> them time: at least this time they allow you to download the image in
> one chunk!

The CD version is now in about 7 parts if you include the docs and
explude the checksum files
But they only allow 2 downloads simultaneously - I refuse to use
their download "program" on sheer principle : >
Im almost willing to bet its junkware anyway.

So after each pair of downloads you have to login again and fill out
the SAME forms before you can get the next pair.
After a while I just filled in rants : >

Some people who work for Sun must be M$ moles..

usenetpersongerryt@gmail.com wrote:

> The CD version is now in about 7 parts if you include the docs and
> explude the checksum files
> But they only allow 2 downloads simultaneously - I refuse to use
> their download "program" on sheer principle : >


> Im almost willing to bet its junkware anyway.
> 
> So after each pair of downloads you have to login again and fill out
> the SAME forms before you can get the next pair.
> After a while I just filled in rants : >
> 
> Some people who work for Sun must be M$ moles..
> 

I set the downloads going last night before going to bed. This morning 
they are all done, uncompressed too.

kestrel /export/home/drkirkby/solaris % ls -l
total 11957478
-rw-------   1 drkirkby animals  298470472 Apr 17 09:24 
sol-10-u5-doc-ga-dvd-iso.zip
-rw-------   1 drkirkby animals  426311680 Apr 17 09:25 
sol-10-u5-doc-ga-dvd.iso
-rw-------   1 drkirkby animals      122 Apr 17 08:43 
sol-10-u5-doc-ga-md5sum.txt
-rw-------   1 drkirkby animals     1491 Apr 17 08:43 
sol-10-u5-ga-md5sum-sparc.txt
-rw-------   1 drkirkby animals  1311768576 Apr 17 05:49 
sol-10-u5-ga-sparc-dvd-iso-a
-rw-------   1 drkirkby animals  1236336312 Apr 17 05:46 
sol-10-u5-ga-sparc-dvd-iso-a.zip
-rw-------   1 drkirkby animals  1610481664 Apr 17 08:43 
sol-10-u5-ga-sparc-dvd-iso-b
-rw-------   1 drkirkby animals  1235791088 Apr 17 08:40 
sol-10-u5-ga-sparc-dvd-iso-b.zip

I've not checked the checksums yet, but all should be ok.

I think that was pretty painless. No need to log in multiple times. 
Downloads can be stopped, paused, restarted. I really don't know what 
your problem is.

Why not try the download manager, then report back on its problems. It 
seems to work pretty well for me. I don't work for Sun.


I don't think the download manager is junkware. I suspect the source is 
open, although I have not checked that.

On Apr 17, 8:06 am, Dave <f...@coo.com> wrote:
> usenetpersonger...@gmail.com wrote:
> > The CD version is now in about 7 parts if you include the docs and
> > exclude the checksum files
> > But they only allow 2 downloads simultaneously - I refuse to use
> > their download "program" on sheer principle : >
> > Im almost willing to bet its junkware anyway.
> > So after each pair of downloads you have to login again and fill out
> > the SAME forms before you can get the next pair.
> > After a while I just filled in rants : >
> > Some people who work for Sun must be M$ moles..
> I set the downloads going last night before going to bed. This morning
> they are all done, uncompressed too.
 : >

snipped

> I've not checked the checksums yet, but all should be ok.
> I think that was pretty painless. No need to log in multiple times.
> Downloads can be stopped, paused, restarted. I really don't know what
> your problem is.
Maybe I dont like being told what to do.. : /
> Why not try the download manager, then report back on its problems. It
> seems to work pretty well for me. I don't work for Sun.
> I don't think the download manager is junkware. I suspect the source is
> open, although I have not checked that.

I did when it first came out and it was borkware. I never looked at it
again after.
My implicit point was - why is it needed at all? I can guess but the
solution
is a bit odd. Even if doing things the BSD way (you know those guys
who DONT have billions to spend and are essentially freeware projects)
is too hard for Sun to sort out, for those who can download large
files, why not make
a single iso...? It was that way once. They gave us a choice. Moles I
tell ya!
I bet they have a file on you Doc! ; >

On 17 Apr, 15:58, usenetpersonger...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 17, 3:49 am, Tim Bradshaw <tfb+goo...@tfeb.org> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 17, 10:47 am, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
> > > They have a ridiculous website/system for downloading solaris.
> Indeed
> > Sun haven't really understood the whole "interweb" thing yet.  Give
> > them time: at least this time they allow you to download the image in
> > one chunk!
>
> The CD version is now in about 7 parts if you include the docs and
> explude the checksum files
> But they only allow 2 downloads simultaneously - I refuse to use
> their download "program" on sheer principle : >
> Im almost willing to bet its junkware anyway.
>
> So after each pair of downloads you have to login again and fill out
> the SAME forms before you can get the next pair.

I not had this problem?  I just click the next link.

I mainly use wget - just paste the links in, only ever filled the for
out once.

> After a while I just filled in rants : >
>
> Some people who work for Sun must be M$ moles..

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:58:30 -0700, usenetpersongerryt wrote:

> So after each pair of downloads you have to login again and fill out
> the SAME forms before you can get the next pair.
> After a while I just filled in rants : >

No such problems here and I got CD images for both x86 and SPARC. 
But just one download stream at a time.  As soon as I got the 5 images for
x86 I went back to the login screen and asked for the SPARC downloads.  I
did have to repeat the usage questionaire.

> Some people who work for Sun must be M$ moles..

That's no joke.  I tried yesterday to register a JDK for Linux using
Firefox on Linux.  The page was so broken I couldn't even check the I
agree box, but I expect that it might have rendered correctly on Internet
Exploder.

Thomas Maier-Komor a �crit :
>> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
> 
> I did a live upgrade. Almost everything went fine.

LiveUpgrade from u4 ok but need to install p7zip (exe not found) patch 
first.
Not you ?

Alain.

Document Audience:	PUBLIC
Document ID:	137322-01
Title:	SunOS 5.10_x86: p7zip patch
Copyright Notice:	Copyright � 2008 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All Rights 
Reserved
Update Date:	Thu Mar 27 10:06:31 MDT 2008
See Patch Revision History

Status: RELEASED

Patch Id: 137322-01

***********************************************************************
READ THE TERMS OF THE AGREEMENT ("AGREEMENT") IN THE LEGAL_LICENSE.TXT
FILE CAREFULLY BEFORE USING THIS SOFTWARE. BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU
AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL OF THE
TERMS, PROMPTLY DESTROY THE UNUSED SOFTWARE.
***********************************************************************

Keywords: p7zip

Summary: SunOS 5.10_x86: p7zip patch

Date:  Mar/07/2008

Installation Requirements:

NA

Solaris Release: 10_x86

Sun OS Release: 5.10_x86

Unbundled Product:

Unbundled Release:

Xref: This patch available for SPARC as 137321

Topic:

SunOS 5.10_x86: p7zip patch

Relevant Architecture: i386

BugId's fixed with this patch:

6638175 6657692

Changes incorporated in this version:

Patches accumulated and obsoleted by this patch:

Patches which conflict with this patch:

Required Patches:

Obsoleted by:



Files Included in this Patch:

/usr/bin/7z
/usr/bin/7za
/usr/bin/7zr
/usr/bin/p7zip
/usr/lib/7z/7z.so
/usr/lib/7z/Codecs/Rar29.so
/usr/share/man/man1/7z.1
/usr/share/man/man1/7za.1
/usr/share/man/man1/7zr.1
/usr/share/man/man1/p7zip.1

Problem Description:

6657692 move p7zip file to SUNWbzip package in S10_U5
6638175 needed to install 7zip on Solaris 8/9/10 Systems for live 
upgrade to S10u5

On Apr 17, 4:25 pm, usenetpersonger...@gmail.com wrote:
> for those who can download large
> files, why not make
> a single iso...?

They have.  That was my point.

Dead Paul wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:49:40 +0200, Jorgen Moquist wrote:
> 
>> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
>> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp /Jorgen
> 
> They have a ridiculous website/system for downloading solaris.
> 
> Round and round in circles, rejecting one thing after another but they
> they sure as fuck made sure they collected their "statistics" first.
> 
> What losers. 
> 
> And yes I am registered, I have been for a year now.


Looks like you need some more experience with the internet and web
tools. To me it is just straight forward. Takes 30 seconds 'til I've the
download started with the Download manager (which BTW does a very good job).

· kangcool <kangcool2002@yahoo.co.uk>:

> I mainly use wget - just paste the links in, only ever filled the for
> out once.

wget was no good for me. I tried to download a md5sum file from
the U5 download page using wget and only got some HTML page. I
haven't checked what it said, but I'd bet that it said that I
need to logon first.

Michael Schmarck
-- 
Don't you feel more like you do now than you did when you came in?

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:52:53 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:

> Dead Paul wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:49:40 +0200, Jorgen Moquist wrote:
>> 
>>> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
>>> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp /Jorgen
>> 
>> They have a ridiculous website/system for downloading solaris.
>> 
>> Round and round in circles, rejecting one thing after another but they
>> they sure as fuck made sure they collected their "statistics" first.
>> 
>> What losers.
>> 
>> And yes I am registered, I have been for a year now.
> 
> Looks like you need some more experience with the internet and web
> tools.

I don't think the issue is with experience on the internet or with web
tools in general... I just did my first install of Solaris 10 a few days
ago and still can't figure out how to get the automatic updates working.

Do you have to have a paid subscription or not?

> To me it is just straight forward. Takes 30 seconds 'til I've the
> download started with the Download manager (which BTW does a very good
> job).

Things that you've done before tend to be easier the second time around.

-- 
"Remain calm, we're here to protect you!"

Thommy M. wrote:
> tools. To me it is just straight forward. Takes 30 seconds 'til I've the
> download started with the Download manager (which BTW does a very good job).

Same here. I was expecting the download to take hours but when I checked
15 minutes later it was done!

Wed Apr 16 12:50:09 EDT 2008:Started processing file
sol-10-u5-ga-sparc-dvd-iso-a.zip from server cds.sun.com
....
Wed Apr 16 13:02:24 EDT 2008:Download from server cds-esd.sun.com completed
and saved in file sol-10-u5-ga-sparc-dvd-iso-b.zip

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:28:22 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:

> I don't think the issue is with experience on the internet or with web
> tools in general... I just did my first install of Solaris 10 a few days
> ago and still can't figure out how to get the automatic updates working.

IME the best tool to use is pca, Patch Check Advanced, by Martin Paul.

http://www.par.univie.ac.at/solaris/pca/

> Do you have to have a paid subscription or not?

You can get security and driver updates without the paid subscription but
not *all* updates.  You do need to register your installation and create
an account - no cost and trivial to do.

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:52:53 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:

> Dead Paul wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:49:40 +0200, Jorgen Moquist wrote:
>> 
>>> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
>>> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp /Jorgen
>> 
>> They have a ridiculous website/system for downloading solaris.
>> 
>> Round and round in circles, rejecting one thing after another but they
>> they sure as fuck made sure they collected their "statistics" first.
>> 
>> What losers.
>> 
>> And yes I am registered, I have been for a year now.
> 
> 
> Looks like you need some more experience with the internet and web tools.

I can do without that kind of experience thankyou.

> To me it is just straight forward. Takes 30 seconds 'til I've the download
> started with the Download manager (which BTW does a very good job).

Good for you.

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

Dead Paul wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:52:53 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:
> 
>>
>> Looks like you need some more experience with the internet and web tools.
> 
> I can do without that kind of experience thankyou.
> 
A bad workman always blames his tools.

-- 
Ian Collins.

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:15:31 -0500, Dave Uhring wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:28:22 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
> 
>> I don't think the issue is with experience on the internet or with web
>> tools in general... I just did my first install of Solaris 10 a few days
>> ago and still can't figure out how to get the automatic updates working.
> 
> IME the best tool to use is pca, Patch Check Advanced, by Martin Paul.
> 
> http://www.par.univie.ac.at/solaris/pca/

Thanks for that.
 
>> Do you have to have a paid subscription or not?
> 
> You can get security and driver updates without the paid subscription but
> not *all* updates.  You do need to register your installation and create
> an account - no cost and trivial to do.

Well, that's what I thought it said, I'm am registered but the update tool
says it's downloading, seems to download quite a bit and then dies with a
bunch of fail errors that say files are missing.

I'll have to revisit it at some point.

-- 
"Remain calm, we're here to protect you!"

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:12:13 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:15:31 -0500, Dave Uhring wrote:

>> You can get security and driver updates without the paid subscription
>> but not *all* updates.  You do need to register your installation and
>> create an account - no cost and trivial to do.
> 
> Well, that's what I thought it said, I'm am registered but the update
> tool says it's downloading, seems to download quite a bit and then dies
> with a bunch of fail errors that say files are missing.

At times sunsolve is quite broken and other times the patches arrive at 
my full bandwidth using pca.

The missing files thing indicates that patches exist but are not 
available without a paid up subscription.  You probably should not have 
seen that using Sun's update manager, however.

> I'll have to revisit it at some point.

Best thing you can do with that GUI update tool is to pkgrm it.  Barring 
that just forget about using it.  pca does what you need.

Dave Uhring wrote:
> 
> Best thing you can do with that GUI update tool is to pkgrm it.  Barring 
> that just forget about using it.  pca does what you need.

A big +1 to that!

-- 
Ian Collins.

Ian Collins wrote:
> Dead Paul wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:52:53 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like you need some more experience with the internet and web tools.
>> I can do without that kind of experience thankyou.
>>
> A bad workman always blames his tools.
> 

That's what she said!

Bad joke.  :-(

On Apr 17, 9:55 pm, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> A bad workman always blames his tools.
>

However Sun's facilities for downloading stuff are just not very
good.  You have only to compare them with those provided by many Linux
distros to see that.  The good news is that they are getting better -
for instance this time you could get DVD images as single files, and I
suspect there was more bandwidth.  In time they will probably become
good.

On Apr 17, 10:12 pm, Ivan Marsh <anno...@you.now> wrote:

>
> Well, that's what I thought it said, I'm am registered but the update tool
> says it's downloading, seems to download quite a bit and then dies with a
> bunch of fail errors that say files are missing.
>
> I'll have to revisit it at some point.

PCA is, in my opinion, superior to any of the Sun tools, including the
for-money ones.  Caveat: I haven't (yet) used the most recent for-
money one.

Alain wrote:
> Thomas Maier-Komor a �crit :
>>> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
>>
>> I did a live upgrade. Almost everything went fine.
> 
> LiveUpgrade from u4 ok but need to install p7zip (exe not found) patch 
> first.
> Not you ?

Me too .. and i'm afraid we are not alone ;(

Tim Bradshaw wrote:
> On Apr 17, 9:55 pm, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> A bad workman always blames his tools.
>>
> 
> However Sun's facilities for downloading stuff are just not very
> good.  You have only to compare them with those provided by many Linux
> distros to see that.  The good news is that they are getting better -
> for instance this time you could get DVD images as single files, and I
> suspect there was more bandwidth.  In time they will probably become
> good.

The hoop jumping has been discussed often on the OpenSolaris lists.  The
reason is the license terms Sun have to abide by for some of the
components shipped with Solaris.

That's one of the reasons for the Indiana distribution - no encumbered
components.  That's why Indiana can be freely distributed (including
bit-torrent) and Solaris and Solaris Express can't.

-- 
Ian Collins.

Alain schrieb:
> Thomas Maier-Komor a �crit :
>>> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
>>
>> I did a live upgrade. Almost everything went fine.
> 
> LiveUpgrade from u4 ok but need to install p7zip (exe not found) patch 
> first.
> Not you ?
> 
> Alain.
> 

I was talking about SPARC here - I'm not sure if SPARC needs this too, 
and if I had it installed. Anyway, I didn't encounter a problem...

- Thomas

usenetpersongerryt@gmail.com writes:

> So after each pair of downloads you have to login again and fill out
> the SAME forms before you can get the next pair.
> After a while I just filled in rants : >

that's why the have billions of licenses are out, and when
software companion comes out, obe has to fill out the form again.
-- 
12. Gebot: Wenn Ihr eine Fahrradklingel h�rt, wechsele die, die links geht
nach rechts, die die rechts geht nach links, aber nicht bis zum Stra�enrand.
Danach dreht Euch um, rei�t Mund, Nase und Augen auf, tretet aber keinesfalls
zur Seite.

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:55:50 +1200, Ian Collins wrote:

> Dead Paul wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:52:53 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Looks like you need some more experience with the internet and web
>>> tools.
>> 
>> I can do without that kind of experience thankyou.
>> 
> A bad workman always blames his tools.

Sun.com is not "my tools". They belong to Sun.

You're not very clever.

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:26:21 +1200, Ian Collins wrote:

> Tim Bradshaw wrote:
>> On Apr 17, 9:55 pm, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> A bad workman always blames his tools.
>>>
>>>
>> However Sun's facilities for downloading stuff are just not very good. 
>> You have only to compare them with those provided by many Linux distros
>> to see that.  The good news is that they are getting better - for
>> instance this time you could get DVD images as single files, and I
>> suspect there was more bandwidth.  In time they will probably become
>> good.
> 
> The hoop jumping has been discussed often on the OpenSolaris lists.  The
> reason is the license terms Sun have to abide by for some of the
> components shipped with Solaris.
> 
> That's one of the reasons for the Indiana distribution - no encumbered
> components.  That's why Indiana can be freely distributed (including
> bit-torrent) and Solaris and Solaris Express can't.

It's not hoop jumping. It's a broken system. I was filling in webforms 
in circles even when I was already a member for the last 12 months. I have
used Sun's antiquated procedure several times before but this time it
became particularly irksome when it went wrong.

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

Dead Paul wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:55:50 +1200, Ian Collins wrote:
> 
>> Dead Paul wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:52:53 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Looks like you need some more experience with the internet and web
>>>> tools.
>>> I can do without that kind of experience thankyou.
>>>
>> A bad workman always blames his tools.
> 
> Sun.com is not "my tools". They belong to Sun.
> 
> You're not very clever.
> 
At least I can type my name and password, then click the download links,
not exactly hard.

-- 
Ian Collins.

On Apr 18, 8:26 am, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The hoop jumping has been discussed often on the OpenSolaris lists.  The
> reason is the license terms Sun have to abide by for some of the
> components shipped with Solaris.

I doubt the hoops require you to fill in a form, entries on which are
initialised to blank each time.  That's just stupidity, sorry.  It
also ensures that the data Sun gather will be of very low value as
people will just forget how many licenses they have.

In article <66r0otF2jvuo0U20@mid.individual.net>,
Ian Collins  <ian-news@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The hoop jumping has been discussed often on the OpenSolaris lists.  The
>reason is the license terms Sun have to abide by for some of the
>components shipped with Solaris.

Requirements from Mike Dillon and company's landsharks for completed
license agreements and from Anil Gadre and company's marketing wonks
for usage surveys do not excuse the breakage of downloads via wget(1)
or the inability of the usage survey to keep track of my previous
entries linked to my Sun Online Account.

>That's one of the reasons for the Indiana distribution - no encumbered
>components.  That's why Indiana can be freely distributed (including
>bit-torrent) and Solaris and Solaris Express can't.

Sun is installing barriers which make Solaris less compelling than
Indiana and various Linux distributions.

But I'm reluctant to point to a conspiracy within Sun like the one
we saw a few years ago to marginalize Solaris in favor of their
Cobalt/SunLinux distibutions and think the root of the problem is
more closely related to the observation that that Martin Paul's PCA
out performs Don Grantham and company's Solaris-sustaining, recurring
revenue business model, subscription Sun Update Connection tools:
no accountability for poor execution.

As Bob Palowoda once said, "much ado about nothing, I'm sure it
will all just work out."

John
groenveld@acm.org

John D Groenveld wrote:

> Requirements from Mike Dillon and company's landsharks for completed
> license agreements and from Anil Gadre and company's marketing wonks
> for usage surveys do not excuse the breakage of downloads via wget(1)
> or the inability of the usage survey to keep track of my previous
> entries linked to my Sun Online Account.
> 

I think it would be better if usage surveys were optional. The problem 
with compulsory usage surveys is that if people dont want to fill them 
in, they just check random boxes. I do it all the time when filling in 
forms on the web. I doubt I am the only one.

I think it would be better to ask people if they want to fill in a 
survey. If they elect to, it is probably a reasonable assumption they 
will give valid data. So whilst you might get considerably less surveys 
completed, I suspect the data is far more useful.

I'm quite happy to fill in a survey or three for Sun, but it does get a 
bit tedious when asked to fill in the same survey multiple times. Now I 
tend to pick random numbers.

In all honesty, how accurate can one expect data to be when people are 
forced to fill in a form before downloading something? If a large number 
of people just pick random answers (and I suspect a lot do), it does 
mean the data is of no real use at all.

Dead Paul wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:55:50 +1200, Ian Collins wrote:
> 
>> Dead Paul wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:52:53 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Looks like you need some more experience with the internet and web
>>>> tools.
>>> I can do without that kind of experience thankyou.
>>>
>> A bad workman always blames his tools.
> 
> Sun.com is not "my tools". They belong to Sun.
> 
> You're not very clever.

Kid, you're making a fool of yourself. Just follow the easy procedure to
login and click the obvious links and your download starts in just
seconds. How hard can it be?

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:36:30 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:

> Dead Paul wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:55:50 +1200, Ian Collins wrote:
>> 
>>> Dead Paul wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:52:53 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Looks like you need some more experience with the internet and web
>>>>> tools.
>>>> I can do without that kind of experience thankyou.
>>>>
>>> A bad workman always blames his tools.
>> 
>> Sun.com is not "my tools". They belong to Sun.
>> 
>> You're not very clever.
> 
> Kid, you're making a fool of yourself. Just follow the easy procedure to
> login and click the obvious links and your download starts in just
> seconds. How hard can it be?

I don't argue with fools who don't even know the difference between the
web and "tools".

Plonk! 

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:27:12 +1200, Ian Collins wrote:

> Dead Paul wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:55:50 +1200, Ian Collins wrote:
>> 
>>> Dead Paul wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:52:53 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Looks like you need some more experience with the internet and web
>>>>> tools.
>>>> I can do without that kind of experience thankyou.
>>>>
>>> A bad workman always blames his tools.
>> 
>> Sun.com is not "my tools". They belong to Sun.
>> 
>> You're not very clever.
>> 
> At least I can type my name and password, then click the download links,
> not exactly hard.

That surprises me.
You don't know the difference between the web and "tools".


-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

In <OWjOj.6296$R_4.4949@newsb.telia.net>, Thommy M. wrote:
> Kid, you're making a fool of yourself. Just follow the easy procedure to
> login and click the obvious links and your download starts in just
> seconds. How hard can it be?

I had no end of trouble with the Web Start version of SDM.  Sometimes
it works, sometimes it doesn't.  In the end I've concluded that the
simplest option is to install a local copy and paste the URLs into
that.

But when you do that, most of the "Sun can't run web infrastructure
to save their lives" issues go away.  You just queue up all the stuff
you want and let it get on with the job.

Matt

-- 
* Matt McLeod | mail: matt@boggle.org | blog: http://abortrephrase.com/ *
     --- People can do the work, so machines have time to think ---

On Apr 18, 4:33 pm, groen...@cse.psu.edu (John D Groenveld) wrote:
> [...] the observation that that Martin Paul's PCA
> out performs Don Grantham and company's Solaris-sustaining, recurring
> revenue business model, subscription Sun Update Connection tools:
> no accountability for poor execution.

I'm not sure I've I've said this here before, but it seems fairly
obvious to me that Sun are not very good at providing these tools.  I
think the best thing for them to do at this point would be to publish
an API for patch & patch metadata downloading (which API would include
authentication), and allow others to produce tools (for instance:
PCA).

One consequence of this would be that the cost of access to patches &
updates would probably need to go up as it would no longer be
subsidised by people paying for the tools.  I imagine a bunch of
freetards will whine about that, but who cares about them?

I don't see Sun doing this though, so we will probably be stuck with
endless iterations of non-working tools for ever.

PM <pm@gmx.de> wrote:
> Alain wrote:
>> Thomas Maier-Komor a �crit :
>>>> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
>>>
>>> I did a live upgrade. Almost everything went fine.
>> 
>> LiveUpgrade from u4 ok but need to install p7zip (exe not found) patch 
>> first.
>> Not you ?
> 
> Me too .. and i'm afraid we are not alone ;(
> 

Strange: the p7zip patch appears inaccessible without service contract,
although it is listed in the "Recommended Patches".

-- 

 Hans Werner Strube    strube(@)physik3(.)gwdg(.)de
 Drittes Physikalisches Institut,  Univ. Goettingen
 Friedrich-Hund-Platz 1,  37077 Goettingen, Germany

On 2008-04-22 09:48:45 +0100, me@privacy.net (Hans Werner Strube, 
strube&physik3*gwdg*de) said:

> PM <pm@gmx.de> wrote:
>> Alain wrote:
>>> Thomas Maier-Komor a �crit :
>>>>> Solaris 10 update 05/08 is released.
>>>> 
>>>> I did a live upgrade. Almost everything went fine.
>>> 
>>> LiveUpgrade from u4 ok but need to install p7zip (exe not found) patch
>>> first.
>>> Not you ?
>> 
>> Me too .. and i'm afraid we are not alone ;(
>> 
> 
> Strange: the p7zip patch appears inaccessible without service contract,
> although it is listed in the "Recommended Patches".

I'm pretty sure that I found a SUNWp7zip package hiding on the U4 or U5 
beta DVD images, when I was trying to do a live upgrade recently.

Cheers,

Chris

Chris Ridd wrote:
> On 2008-04-22 09:48:45 +0100, me@privacy.net (Hans Werner Strube, 
> strube&physik3*gwdg*de) said:
>> Strange: the p7zip patch appears inaccessible without service contract,
>> although it is listed in the "Recommended Patches".

There's a difference between recommended and security patches; only the 
latter are always available without a service contract. Some 
non-security patches are as well, but the fact that a patch is listed in 
the "Recommended Patches" is not a guarantee.  Confusing, indeed.

> I'm pretty sure that I found a SUNWp7zip package hiding on the U4 or U5 
> beta DVD images, when I was trying to do a live upgrade recently.

I don't think there's a SUNWp7zip package. p7zip is included in the 
SUNWbzip package; the patches add it to this package as well. Installing 
SUNWbzip from 5/08 media might help. Unfortunately the p7zip patches are 
not included in the Patches/ directory on the Solaris 10 5/08 DVD/CDs.

mp.
-- 
SysAdmin | Institute of Scientific Computing, University of Vienna
      PCA | Analyze, download and install patches for Solaris
          | http://www.par.univie.ac.at/solaris/pca/

On 2008-04-22 11:50:50 +0100, Martin Paul <map@par.univie.ac.at> said:

> Chris Ridd wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure that I found a SUNWp7zip package hiding on the U4 or U5 
>> beta DVD images, when I was trying to do a live upgrade recently.
> 
> I don't think there's a SUNWp7zip package. p7zip is included in the 
> SUNWbzip package; the patches add it to this package as well. 
> Installing SUNWbzip from 5/08 media might help. Unfortunately the p7zip 
> patches are not included in the Patches/ directory on the Solaris 10 
> 5/08 DVD/CDs.

tubby% pkgchk -lp /usr/bin/p7zip
NOTE: Couldn't lock the package database.
Pathname: /usr/bin/p7zip
Type: regular file
Expected mode: 0555
Expected owner: root
Expected group: bin
Expected file size (bytes): 2517
Expected sum(1) of contents: 38086
Expected last modification: Dec 18 19:13:28 2007
Referenced by the following packages:
        SUNWp7zip
Current status: installed

tubby% uname -a
SunOS tubby 5.10 Generic_127111-06 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T200

Cheers,

Chris

Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:
> tubby% pkgchk -lp /usr/bin/p7zip
> NOTE: Couldn't lock the package database.
> Pathname: /usr/bin/p7zip
> Type: regular file
> Expected mode: 0555
> Expected owner: root
> Expected group: bin
> Expected file size (bytes): 2517
> Expected sum(1) of contents: 38086
> Expected last modification: Dec 18 19:13:28 2007
> Referenced by the following packages:
>        SUNWp7zip
> Current status: installed
> 
> tubby% uname -a
> SunOS tubby 5.10 Generic_127111-06 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T200


http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6657692

-- 
Daniel

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:48:20 -0500, Dave Uhring <daveuhring@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:58:30 -0700, usenetpersongerryt wrote:
>
>> So after each pair of downloads you have to login again and fill out
>> the SAME forms before you can get the next pair.
>> After a while I just filled in rants : >
>
>No such problems here and I got CD images for both x86 and SPARC. 
>But just one download stream at a time.  As soon as I got the 5 images for
>x86 I went back to the login screen and asked for the SPARC downloads.  I
>did have to repeat the usage questionaire.
>
>> Some people who work for Sun must be M$ moles..
>
>That's no joke.  I tried yesterday to register a JDK for Linux using
>Firefox on Linux.  The page was so broken I couldn't even check the I
>agree box, but I expect that it might have rendered correctly on Internet
>Exploder.

Firefox is broken. 

Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:42:32 +1000, Barry OGrady wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:48:20 -0500, Dave Uhring <daveuhring@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>That's no joke.  I tried yesterday to register a JDK for Linux using
>>Firefox on Linux.  The page was so broken I couldn't even check the I
>>agree box, but I expect that it might have rendered correctly on
>>Internet Exploder.
> 
> Firefox is broken.

And Internet Exploder is *not*??

Some of Sun's web pages fail to render on Firefox running on Sun's own 
OS, including the one which I mentioned.  Makes no difference how broken 
Firefox is; their web sites ought to render properly using their own 
product.

Dave Uhring wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:42:32 +1000, Barry OGrady wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:48:20 -0500, Dave Uhring <daveuhring@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That's no joke.  I tried yesterday to register a JDK for Linux using
>>> Firefox on Linux.  The page was so broken I couldn't even check the I
>>> agree box, but I expect that it might have rendered correctly on
>>> Internet Exploder.
>> Firefox is broken.
> 
> And Internet Exploder is *not*??
> 

Q:  How many Microsoft Programmers does it take to replace a light bulb?
A:  Darkness is the new standard!

IOW, face it!  Internet Exploder is the de facto standard.

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:28:32 -0400, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> Dave Uhring wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:42:32 +1000, Barry OGrady wrote:

>>> Firefox is broken.
>> 
>> And Internet Exploder is *not*??
>> 
>> 
> Q:  How many Microsoft Programmers does it take to replace a light bulb?
> A:  Darkness is the new standard!
> 
> IOW, face it!  Internet Exploder is the de facto standard.

Which one?  Would that be v4, v5 v5.5, v6, v7, perhaps the vaporware v8, 
none of which is compatible with any of the others?

Dave Uhring wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:28:32 -0400, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
>> Dave Uhring wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:42:32 +1000, Barry OGrady wrote:
> 
>>>> Firefox is broken.
>>> And Internet Exploder is *not*??
>>>
>>>
>> Q:  How many Microsoft Programmers does it take to replace a light bulb?
>> A:  Darkness is the new standard!
>>
>> IOW, face it!  Internet Exploder is the de facto standard.
> 
> Which one?  Would that be v4, v5 v5.5, v6, v7, perhaps the vaporware v8, 
> none of which is compatible with any of the others?

Actually, I use Firefox.  It seems to render the pages I want to look 
at.  YMMV.  I tried IE V7 and backed it out because it didn't work worth 
a damn!

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:07:53 -0400, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> Dave Uhring wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:28:32 -0400, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

>>> IOW, face it!  Internet Exploder is the de facto standard.
>> 
>> Which one?  Would that be v4, v5 v5.5, v6, v7, perhaps the vaporware
>> v8, none of which is compatible with any of the others?
> 
> Actually, I use Firefox.  It seems to render the pages I want to look
> at.  YMMV.  I tried IE V7 and backed it out because it didn't work worth
> a damn!

On Solaris Firefox and Opera, and on Linux and FreeBSD those 2 plus 
Konqueror.  No IEs available here.