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Thoughts on Factor

So what do Forthers think of Factor?


http://factorcode.org/
0
trans
12/18/2016 11:06:48 PM
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On 12/18/2016 5:06 PM, trans wrote:
> So what do Forthers think of Factor?
>
>
> http://factorcode.org/
>
To the purist it is not Forth but then anything not ANSI Forth to them 
is not Forth.

To others it's a language with many built in features to allow quicker 
writing and testing of software. It take a few features from Forth and 
mixes them with I vaguely remember Joy.

It's interactive stack based, and can be expanded with new words like Forth

I would not worry too much about it, if it helps you solve problems then 
use it. Another capable language is 8th, it's also an expanded Forth 
like language with multi-OS capability.
-- 
Cecil - k5nwa
0
Cecil
12/19/2016 12:17:43 AM
On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 5:06:49 PM UTC-6, trans wrote:
> So what do Forthers think of Factor?
> 
> 
> http://factorcode.org/

Quotations:

1. Quotations are a good idea. We should steal that.

2. Quotations are dumb. Please stop stealing every dumb idea that
other languages come up with.

3. It's not a REAL quotation unless it can inflate bike tires.

Libraries:

1. Wow, Slava, you sure put a whole lot of solid effort into writing a
bunch of libraries for your random incompatible Forth-like language
instead of Forth. The effort that you could have so easily invested in
any single Forth system is evidence of your industriousness, but it
doesn't make Factor more interesting as a language.

2. Wow! Libraries! Like what *fairies* give unto *other* languages!
Factor is truly blessed!

Everything else:

1. Retro/8th/Forth is ported more widely and is more interesting.

2. Slava's a prick. (stamped original opinion #4412, do not steal.)

3. (Points to a broken clock.) Good heavens, look at the time! The
same time it always is: time to bash ANS Forth!
0
Julian
12/19/2016 12:39:14 AM
On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 5:17:45 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> On 12/18/2016 5:06 PM, trans wrote:
> > So what do Forthers think of Factor?
> >
> > http://factorcode.org/
> >
> To the purist it is not Forth but then anything not ANSI Forth to them=20
> is not Forth.
>=20
> To others it's a language with many built in features to allow quicker=20
> writing and testing of software. It take a few features from Forth and=20
> mixes them with I vaguely remember Joy.
>=20
> It's interactive stack based, and can be expanded with new words like For=
th

I learned Factor to the extent that I could write simple programs. I was go=
ing to write my slide-rule.4th program in Factor but then decided to write =
it in ANS-Forth. It would have been easier in Factor --- in ANS-Forth I was=
 lacking any support at all for writing programs --- I had to write signifi=
cant portions of the novice-package before I had enough support to write th=
e slide-rule program (this is how the novice-package came into being). I ma=
de the novice-package public because I supposed that other people would wan=
t to write programs in ANS-Forth, and they would appreciate a package of su=
pport code that makes writing programs possible --- I was wrong about that =
--- all the ANS-Forth "programmers" just wants to be big experts on the For=
th-200x mailing list without writing any programs.

There were two reasons why I dropped Factor:
1.) I don't like tagged data and GC (this is why Straight Forth won't have =
tagged data and GC).
2.) I didn't understand a lot of the terminology in the Factor documentatio=
n which is Scheme/Lisp-derived. Also, the documentation is a reference, not=
 a tutorial, so if you don't understand the terminology you are SOL. This i=
s why I decided that, if I were to delve into tagged data and GC, I would b=
e better off to learn Scheme or Lisp which have a lot of documentation, rat=
her than a Scheme/Lisp-derived language.

Anyway, Factor is not a bad language. There were fewer than 20 ANS-Forth pr=
ogrammers in the world at that time, and the number of ANS-Forth programmer=
s is not growing. There are over 200 Factor programmers, and the number of =
Factor programmers is growing. I don't know how many there are now, but the=
re are a lot. Factor is one of the few Scheme/Lisp-derived languages that c=
ompiles into machine-code and generates fast code (at that time Factor code=
 was faster than SwiftForth, which isn't much of an accomplishment; it is i=
mproving over time though and may be up to the speed of VFX now, which is a=
n accomplishment). Most Scheme/Lisp-derived languages compile to byte-code =
and produce abysmally slow programs --- Ruby and Python are both notoriousl=
y slow --- Racket does JIT and is faster, but still not in the league of Fa=
ctor.

Learning Scheme is still on my bucket-list --- I have gotten bogged down wi=
th ANS-Forth and this novice-package --- considering that Elizabeth Rather =
will never say that I'm a Forth programmer and hence no ANS-Forth "programm=
er" will ever use my novice-package, writing code in ANS-Forth is a big was=
te of time for me.
0
hughaguilar96
12/19/2016 1:05:22 AM
On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 6:06:49 PM UTC-5, trans wrote:
> So what do Forthers think of Factor?
> 
> 
> http://factorcode.org/

Seems pretty awesome.
0
polymorph
12/22/2016 7:03:22 AM
On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 2:03:23 AM UTC-5, polymorph self wrote:
> On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 6:06:49 PM UTC-5, trans wrote:
> > So what do Forthers think of Factor?
> > 
> > 
> > http://factorcode.org/
> 
> Seems pretty awesome.

http://concatenative.org/wiki/view/Factor/Furnace  this looks interesting.....any sites anyone has up to look at?
0
polymorph
12/22/2016 7:04:15 AM
On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 7:39:15 PM UTC-5, Julian Fondren wrote:
> On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 5:06:49 PM UTC-6, trans wrote:
> > So what do Forthers think of Factor?
> > 
> > 
> > http://factorcode.org/
> 
> Quotations:
> 
> 1. Quotations are a good idea. We should steal that.
> 
> 2. Quotations are dumb. Please stop stealing every dumb idea that
> other languages come up with.
> 
> 3. It's not a REAL quotation unless it can inflate bike tires.
> 
> Libraries:
> 
> 1. Wow, Slava, you sure put a whole lot of solid effort into writing a
> bunch of libraries for your random incompatible Forth-like language
> instead of Forth. The effort that you could have so easily invested in
> any single Forth system is evidence of your industriousness, but it
> doesn't make Factor more interesting as a language.
> 
> 2. Wow! Libraries! Like what *fairies* give unto *other* languages!
> Factor is truly blessed!
> 
> Everything else:
> 
> 1. Retro/8th/Forth is ported more widely and is more interesting.
> 
> 2. Slava's a prick. (stamped original opinion #4412, do not steal.)
> 
> 3. (Points to a broken clock.) Good heavens, look at the time! The
> same time it always is: time to bash ANS Forth!

Be nice to slava, please stick to why other things are nicer in your experience and be posative.
0
polymorph
12/22/2016 7:06:07 AM
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