f



Any HP printer with individual colored ink cartridges?

I'm a long time HP printer user, and I'm looking at purchasing a new inkjet 
printer. I would like to save money by buying an inkjet that uses individual 
colored ink cartridges. Well, at least I think I'll save money. It seems HP 
does not make inkjet with individual ink cartridge for each color, is it?

Also among the major printer manufacturer, like HP, Canon, Epson; it seems 
only HP build the print head in the ink cartridge. I have been very 
satisfied with HP printer, but I would like to try another brand. I have the 
impression HP inkjet printers are expensive to operate. Any 
ideas/opinions/comments welcomed.

BTW, the Canon Pixma printers look interesting, especially the double-sided 
print feature. 


0
Buyer
11/27/2004 9:28:39 AM
comp.periphs.printers 18139 articles. 0 followers. Post Follow

16 Replies
1046 Views

Similar Articles

[PageSpeed] 4

In message <bNXpd.194224$df2.13748@edtnps89>, Buyer <buyer@printer.com> 
writes
>I'm a long time HP printer user, and I'm looking at purchasing a new inkjet
>printer. I would like to save money by buying an inkjet that uses individual
>colored ink cartridges. Well, at least I think I'll save money. It seems HP
>does not make inkjet with individual ink cartridge for each color, is it?
>
>Also among the major printer manufacturer, like HP, Canon, Epson; it seems
>only HP build the print head in the ink cartridge. I have been very
>satisfied with HP printer, but I would like to try another brand. I have the
>impression HP inkjet printers are expensive to operate. Any
>ideas/opinions/comments welcomed.

CP1700 is a nice HP machine.  Separate ink carts, but also separate 
print heads.

Carts are expensive but contain a lot of ink so last a long time.  Pigs 
to refill though.  I have managed to source appropriate ink, but not to 
get it into the cart without trashing it !


Cheers, J/.
-- 
John Beardmore
0
John
11/27/2004 12:13:16 PM
Buyer wrote:

>I'm a long time HP printer user, and I'm looking at purchasing a new inkjet 
>printer. I would like to save money by buying an inkjet that uses individual 
>colored ink cartridges. Well, at least I think I'll save money.

That's the key issue...do you really save money with individual ink
cartridges?

If you use only original cartridges, you won't save much money, if any.
The typical user prints fairly equal amounts of colours. It's only an
advantage if you're a non-typical user and you require prints that use a
lot of one specific colour, such as photos that are all blue sky. I'm a
typical user and ink waste is not really an issue for me.

If you think you're saving money buying just one ink tank at $11
compared to HP's cartridge at $33, think again. The cost of all three
ink tanks is the same price. It only SEEMS like you're spending more
because of the checkout price, but generally you're not.

I've been an HP fan too, and last year I wanted to upgrade to a better
printer with good photo output. Everyone was raving about the Canon
i-series, so I decided to try a Canon i850 with individual ink tanks. It
printed very well, as good or better than the competition, and I was
very impressed. But the printhead (which Canon claimed lasted the life
of the printer) failed after some 4000 sheets and only 16 months. A
friend's i550 also had a printhead fail after only 2500 sheets. I was
very disappointed when I found the cost of a new printhead was %95 of
the cost of a whole new printer.

So I dumped the Canon and went back to HP because the printheads are
never an issue.

When I shopped around for a new printer, I compared page yields with
various brands and models and found that the HP models that used the new
94/96 and 95/97 cartridges have some of the lowest costs per page. I
have little need for direct photo printing, so the model I bought is the
HP Deskjet 6540. It uses the identical cartridges as their Photosmart
8450 and prints just as good. The only differences seem to be related to
direct photo printing features and conveniences. I didn't need any of
those so I was able to save some money on the Deskjet series.

> It seems HP 
>does not make inkjet with individual ink cartridge for each color, is it?

Actually they do for their business models. Costs per page are no better
than some of their home printers, but you do get individual ink tanks if
you have non-typical printing needs.

>Also among the major printer manufacturer, like HP, Canon, Epson; it seems 
>only HP build the print head in the ink cartridge. I have been very 
>satisfied with HP printer, but I would like to try another brand. I have the 
>impression HP inkjet printers are expensive to operate.

Many years ago, HP had higher costs per page than the competition, but
they had the advantage of better quality. HP has long since lowered
their costs per page, and it's not really an issue today.

For speed, Canon currently holds the photo print speed records. But HP
and Epson are only seconds behind. For home and office users, the print
speeds are merely bragging rights..."my printer is faster than yours".
Having said that, my new HP printer is only a few seconds slower than my
now defunct Canon, but it prints slightly better.

>BTW, the Canon Pixma printers look interesting, especially the double-sided 
>print feature. 

Many printers from all of the big names offer duplex printing, either as
a standard feature or an optional component. Only you can determine if
automatic duplex printing is a valid reason to choose one model over
another.

For me, automatic duplex printing doesn't matter - I'm not too lazy to
reach over and flip a few pages if needed. :)
0
Bill
11/27/2004 5:15:51 PM
In message <NJSdnYjIlcjaKzXcRVn-sA@golden.net>, Bill <bill@c.a> writes

>>I'm a long time HP printer user, and I'm looking at purchasing a new inkjet
>>printer. I would like to save money by buying an inkjet that uses individual
>>colored ink cartridges. Well, at least I think I'll save money.
>
>That's the key issue...do you really save money with individual ink
>cartridges?
>
>If you use only original cartridges, you won't save much money, if any.
>The typical user prints fairly equal amounts of colours. It's only an
>advantage if you're a non-typical user and you require prints that use a
>lot of one specific colour, such as photos that are all blue sky. I'm a
>typical user and ink waste is not really an issue for me.

I may not be a typical user (whatever one of those is), but I've 
certainly had projects where the CD cover and disk we were working on 
were largely blue, and subsequently worked for a company where the 
corporate colour is orange.  Both of these hit some of the tanks 
noticeably more than others.


>For me, automatic duplex printing doesn't matter - I'm not too lazy to
>reach over and flip a few pages if needed. :)

It's OK for a few sheets, but it's a PITA if you do a lot of copies of 
short documents or even occasional large documents.


J/.
-- 
John Beardmore
0
John
11/27/2004 7:04:13 PM
"Buyer" <buyer@printer.com> wrote in message 
news:bNXpd.194224$df2.13748@edtnps89...
> I'm a long time HP printer user, and I'm looking at purchasing a new inkjet 
> printer. I would like to save money by buying an inkjet that uses individual 
> colored ink cartridges. Well, at least I think I'll save money. It seems HP 
> does not make inkjet with individual ink cartridge for each color, is it?

HP has a number of printers that have individual ink tanks, typically designed 
for the office environments.  The Business Inkjet 1200 series is an example. 
It has very large individual ink tanks and lists for $199 for the base model. 
See: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02a/18972-236251-236261.html for 
links to the 1200 and other models.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP


0
Bob
11/28/2004 9:34:07 PM
Bill wrote:

> 
> That's the key issue...do you really save money with individual ink
> cartridges?
> 
> If you use only original cartridges, you won't save much money, if any.
> The typical user prints fairly equal amounts of colours. It's only an
> advantage if you're a non-typical user and you require prints that use a
> lot of one specific colour, such as photos that are all blue sky. I'm a
> typical user and ink waste is not really an issue for me.
> 
> If you think you're saving money buying just one ink tank at $11
> compared to HP's cartridge at $33, think again. The cost of all three
> ink tanks is the same price. It only SEEMS like you're spending more
> because of the checkout price, but generally you're not.
> 
I'm on my first non-HP printer and I can't agree with your cost 
figures.  My last HP printer used #78 cart and cost very close to $55 
and held the same amount of ink in the Canon I now have, and 3x $11 is 
a lot lower cost than $55.  The newer carts hold less ink so the lower 
cost can't be compared.

If you want to consider refilling, qlty 3rd party ink for my Canon 
cost $1 a color to refill and are so much easier than any HP cart to 
refill.

> I've been an HP fan too, and last year I wanted to upgrade to a better
> printer with good photo output. Everyone was raving about the Canon
> i-series, so I decided to try a Canon i850 with individual ink tanks. It
> printed very well, as good or better than the competition, and I was
> very impressed. But the printhead (which Canon claimed lasted the life
> of the printer) failed after some 4000 sheets and only 16 months. A
> friend's i550 also had a printhead fail after only 2500 sheets. I was
> very disappointed when I found the cost of a new printhead was %95 of
> the cost of a whole new printer.

Haven't had the Canon long enough to know about long term printhead 
reliability but don't recall that has been an often discussed issue in 
this forum.

> 
> So I dumped the Canon and went back to HP because the printheads are
> never an issue.
> 
> When I shopped around for a new printer, I compared page yields with
> various brands and models and found that the HP models that used the new
> 94/96 and 95/97 cartridges have some of the lowest costs per page. I
> have little need for direct photo printing, so the model I bought is the
> HP Deskjet 6540. It uses the identical cartridges as their Photosmart
> 8450 and prints just as good. The only differences seem to be related to
> direct photo printing features and conveniences. I didn't need any of
> those so I was able to save some money on the Deskjet series.
> 
> Many years ago, HP had higher costs per page than the competition, but
> they had the advantage of better quality. HP has long since lowered
> their costs per page, and it's not really an issue today.

Recently read an article (Tom's hardware if I remember correctly) on 
some of the newest printer offerings and the HP printer came out on 
top of the cost/pg chart.  For full page color photo when paper cost 
was taken out of the figure, the HP cost was a full 50 cents higher 
per sheet than the Canon.  That adds up to a lot in a short order if 
you print color at all, photos or plain paper printing.

 >
> 
> For speed, Canon currently holds the photo print speed records. But HP
> and Epson are only seconds behind. For home and office users, the print
> speeds are merely bragging rights..."my printer is faster than yours".
> Having said that, my new HP printer is only a few seconds slower than my
> now defunct Canon, but it prints slightly better.
> 

Am I biased against HP printers, you decide but I will say Bill & Dave 
provided me with a good living for 25+ yrs.  When Bill and Dave were 
running the show the "me to" products you see coming from HP would get 
you fired for thinking me to was good enough.

Mickey
0
Mickey
11/29/2004 6:44:35 PM
Yes there are.  See www.hp.com for their latest selection.

Anyways, individual ink cartridges make sense when you're printing 
pictures or graphics with a certain color in use the most -- when that 
color goes, you don't throw away the rest of the inks for no reason at 
all.  This occurs quite frequently at work in the all-in-one color 
cartridge printers, and which is why the switch to individual/lasers was 
done.  Too expensive to operate an all-in-one system when you run out of 
only one or two of the 4-6 inks and have to throw away good ink.

Lasers are the better way to go if photo printing isn't the major 
concern.  Most are going for <$500 today, and they go thousands of pages 
on a cartridge.

For inkjets, refill or use the continuous bottle ink feed system such as 
the CIS system at www.inkjetmall.com.  (see Yahoo Groups Epson Inkjet 
forum for lots of talk on these systems)  The CIS system will definitely 
save you $$$ because you buy in bulk (think 100s of ml of ink rather 
than a puny <50ml cartridge which only goes ~50 letter prints).  You can 
easily go 1000+ prints w/o stopping for a refill with these bottle ink 
feed systems, and are the way to go if you're running hundreds/thousands 
of inkjet prints a month.

---

Anyways, keep in mind that all of these consumables are marked up $$$$$ 
from the plant (think usually foreign - eg. Mexico, China, etc. where 
labor and materials are cheap), then marked up again $$ to the 
warehouse, then the stores, then mark it up again for everyone's profit 
(easily 20-40%+ for inks sold at stores! see CRN - Computer Reseller 
News magazine for the various ads on "YOU as a reseller GET $$$%%%% 
profit when you sell our products").

Don't believe ink cartridges actually are worth the $$$$ -- you can 
easily save $$$$ on refills and CIS systems -- otherwise, you're just 
feeding the packaging & reseller chain with your money.

And when you think about it -- there's NO REASON at all makers can't 
simply ship a printer pre-filled with ink cartridges the size of a 1 
litre bottle and simply let you print thousands of pages w/o having to 
go to the store at all for years.  (this is what they do for those 
super-wide $$$ inkjets for the pro-graphics market -- HUGE ink tanks)

After all, all of that hassle to change tiny cartidges frequently is 
just silly!
0
David
11/29/2004 9:29:17 PM
HP 1200 series
HP cp1700 series
HP 2300 series
HP 2600 series
HP 3000 series

0
David
11/29/2004 9:31:18 PM
Mickey wrote:

>> If you think you're saving money buying just one ink tank at $11
>> compared to HP's cartridge at $33, think again. The cost of all three
>> ink tanks is the same price. It only SEEMS like you're spending more
>> because of the checkout price, but generally you're not.
>> 
>I'm on my first non-HP printer and I can't agree with your cost 
>figures.  My last HP printer used #78 cart and cost very close to $55 
>and held the same amount of ink in the Canon I now have, and 3x $11 is 
>a lot lower cost than $55.  The newer carts hold less ink so the lower 
>cost can't be compared.

As I've mentioned here in this forum several times before, ink volume
does NOT equate to page yield. It doesn't matter if one vendor has twice
the volume of the other, it's the page yield that you need to compare.
As a prime example, the Canon BCI-6 series has a total ink volume of
(3x14.5)=43.5ml, compared to HP 97 at 14ml, yet page yields are similar
instead of three times as much.

As for page yield numbers, if you compare the HP tri-colour 97 with the
Canon CMY ink tanks, you'll find HP costs a few bucks more, but has
slightly better page yields. The net result is similar costs per page.

>Haven't had the Canon long enough to know about long term printhead 
>reliability but don't recall that has been an often discussed issue in 
>this forum.

Where have you been...?

It's been mentioned here several times recently. It wasn't talked about
when the printers were new for obvious reasons, but as the i-series
aged, failures started to surface.

>Recently read an article (Tom's hardware if I remember correctly) on 
>some of the newest printer offerings and the HP printer came out on 
>top of the cost/pg chart.  For full page color photo when paper cost 
>was taken out of the figure, the HP cost was a full 50 cents higher 
>per sheet than the Canon.  That adds up to a lot in a short order if 
>you print color at all, photos or plain paper printing.

I can point you to other magazine reviews that say differently, this one
at PCMag for example:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1682920,00.asp

Check the performance tests and you'll find a link to the costs per page
of four colour printers.

Which do you want to believe?

Personally, I don't fully trust any of them, so I tend to do my own
investigating and make my own conclusions. That's why I had no problem
buying certain HP printers. Granted, I wouldn't buy any of their low-end
models, but that's true for any brand. :)
0
Bill
11/29/2004 11:26:36 PM
>After all, all of that hassle to change tiny cartidges frequently is 
>just silly!

Amen!!
0
me
11/30/2004 12:25:44 AM
me@privacy.net wrote:
>>After all, all of that hassle to change tiny cartidges frequently is 
>>just silly!
> 
> 
> Amen!!

Canon currently has ads in Canada promoting their individual color
cartridge "Think Tank system": "When you need more yellow, just add
yellow."

Funny thing, that's exactly what I've been doing for a couple of
years now... When the yellow cartridge showed low ink, I took it out
and added more yellow - with a syringe! ;-)

Finally, Canon's acknowledged that refilling is the most economical
route to follow.  Nice work, Canon!  Now when are the other
manufacturers going to wake up? ;-)

-Taliesyn
0
Taliesyn
11/30/2004 1:00:56 AM

Mickey wrote:


> 
> Am I biased against HP printers, you decide but I will say Bill & Dave 
> provided me with a good living for 25+ yrs.  When Bill and Dave were 
> running the show the "me to" products you see coming from HP would get 
> you fired for thinking me to was good enough.
> 
> Mickey

I have a feeling your somewhat obscure reference will go over many a 
head here.

However, I suspect what HP today will tell you is they make most of 
their $$ from selling ink and paper.  It's a very different company.

I too am saddened that the H and P families no longer run much, if any, 
of the show.  Bill and Dave had some very strong ethics behind their 
beliefs that being a good corporate citizen was part of being in business.

Art

0
Arthur
11/30/2004 1:19:03 PM
Arthur Entlich wrote:
> 
> 
> However, I suspect what HP today will tell you is they make most of 
> their $$ from selling ink and paper.  It's a very different company.

That was the case when I retired but since C.F. took over, it IS a 
very different company and not for the better IMO.
> 
> I too am saddened that the H and P families no longer run much, if any, 
> of the show.  Bill and Dave had some very strong ethics behind their 
> beliefs that being a good corporate citizen was part of being in business.
> 
> Art
> 
My son works for the Printer div and I still have some friends that 
work there as well as in Corvallis (ink div) and I've not heard a good 
word from any in a long time.  How sad.  Back when I was working HP 
always was battling for top position as best Co to work for.  Co 
hasn't been anywhere near the top and some yrs.  Son told me about 
posting a few of the "HP way" principles on the wall some time back 
and they were pulled within a few hrs.

Mickey
0
Mickey
12/1/2004 5:24:39 PM
> My son works for the Printer div and I still have some friends that work 
> there as well as in Corvallis (ink div) and I've not heard a good word 

   forget that!  as a customer, there used to be a time when you called 
HP for a printer problem, and could actually get the designers involved 
to help you fix the problem.  Nowadays?  Better learn Hindi!
0
David
12/2/2004 1:36:24 AM
"David Chien" <chiendh@uci.edu> wrote in message 
news:colri4$73e$1@news.service.uci.edu...
>> My son works for the Printer div and I still have some friends that work 
>> there as well as in Corvallis (ink div) and I've not heard a good word
>
>   forget that!  as a customer, there used to be a time when you called HP 
> for a printer problem, and could actually get the designers involved to 
> help you fix the problem.  Nowadays?  Better learn Hindi!

Amen to that.

I called today and when I gave the serial number using "B-as in Bob" & "T as 
in Toy" he got three of the four letters wrong.

They said their computers were down (ha!) so I have to give my  complete 
information twice when I was transferred. The language gap is wider than 
Grand Canyon. I finally gave up and told them I would figure the problem out 
myself.

I loved HP but now service is non-existent.

Joan


0
Joan
12/2/2004 3:01:02 AM
HP's print header create too many E-Waste.
Try Epson's printers.

Individual Cartridges printer like R200, R300, RX500, RX600, R800 ....
you can try out bulk ink system for them:

http://www.inkrepublic.com

0
trendyinc
12/16/2004 7:56:57 PM
Bob Headrick wrote:
> "Buyer" <buyer@printer.com> wrote in message
> news:bNXpd.194224$df2.13748@edtnps89...
> > I'm a long time HP printer user, and I'm looking at purchasing a
new inkjet
> > printer. I would like to save money by buying an inkjet that uses
individual
> > colored ink cartridges. Well, at least I think I'll save money. It
seems HP
> > does not make inkjet with individual ink cartridge for each color,
is it?
>
> HP has a number of printers that have individual ink tanks, typically
designed
> for the office environments.  The Business Inkjet 1200 series is an
example.
> It has very large individual ink tanks and lists for $199 for the
base model.
> See:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02a/18972-236251-236261.html
for
> links to the 1200 and other models.

The new issue of Popular Photography has a review of a HP printer
made for photo printing.  It has individual cartridges.   Review
summary: good printer, but one can get other (mfgr) ones that are
a bit better and for less money.  That one was about $700 street
price I recall it saying.

Mike

0
Anoni
12/16/2004 10:04:24 PM
Reply: